The Manly board should fall on their swords
Roar Guru By apaway, 11 Nov 2011 apaway is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Des Hasler, Geoff Toovey, Manly Sea Eagles, NRL, Rugby League
Should the Manly boardwalk for Hasler handling ineptitude? (AAP Image/Dean Lewins)
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In years to come, it will become the ultimate trivia question: which club sacked its reigning premiership-winning coach?
In the sporting world, I can only think of one possible comparison with the insanity that has prevailed at the Manly Sea Eagles after they sacked Des Hasler.
Back in 2006, reigning A-League champions Sydney FC reportedly cut coach Pierre Littbarski’s salary drastically before the start of season two. Understandably, Littbarski left.
But he wasn’t sacked, and the ignominy of this ridiculous saga has, to the best of my knowledge, not be played out at any club that are the reigning champions.
Des Hasler has performed miracles at Manly. A club on the brink of folding when he took over, operating on a shoestring budget, in direct deference to their popular image, and he has led them to two premierships in four seasons, with another “moral” victory after the Storm were stripped of the 2007 title.
Manly supporters should have been concerned in June this year when the stories began circulating that the club and Hasler were somewhat apart in negotiations for a contract extension. The concern would have become real disappointment when it was announced Hasler would be leaving the club just days after taking them to the 2011 title. That disappointment will now be real anger.
There are accusations that Hasler was playing his Bulldogs cards too early by trying to shore up key Manly players for Canterbury in 2013. I have a feeling that may play out in the courts, as it sounds like a ploy to avoid paying Hasler out of the last year of his contract, a contract that only one month ago he and the club were happy to honour.
One of the by-products of this mess is the insanity of having coaches and players announce their new employers a season ahead of time. I simply cannot fathom why this is necessary, or why the mythical June 30 deadline ever existed. I understand that with a salary cap there are financial implications that don’t exist in, say, European football. But coaches are not part of the cap, and the game does have a longer off-season than aforementioned leagues.
Regardless of those arguments, this is a case where the Manly board have betrayed fans and players alike. They have also handed new coach Geoff Toovey an almost impossible job.
All of which would have been avoided if they had given Hasler the contract he deserved months ago.
- Explore:
- Des Hasler, Geoff Toovey, Manly Sea Eagles, NRL, Rugby League
November 11th 2011 @ 9:02am
Mals said | November 11th 2011 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Apaway i agree with some of this but there are 2 sides to every story and the media in general has been very Pro Hasler on this issue.
No doubt Manly should have tied up Des to a new longer contract extension mid year. His price was cheaper back then too so it would have been a win win. However, since negotiating with the Bulldogs Des has shown a distinct lack of judgement & class. This was topped off by his “show me the money: statement to the Manly hierachy when it had already turned out that he had signed on the dotted line with Canterbury. Since then his position has become untenable with the mass defections in his back room staff to Canterbury and alleged Bulldog recruitment discussions with Manly players. Des should now do the honourable thing & fall on his sword. He won’t do this though because he is a man with deep pockets and short arms & he wants a payout.
Apaway are you referring to the whole board? Even our majority owner & chairman Scott Penn??? The Manly board is a complex set up with representatives from the leagues club, football club, & equity owners Penns & Surfside. This is part of the problem allowing factions to develop which go to war with each other. How about a complete restructure while we are about it?
November 11th 2011 @ 10:40am
Bondy said | November 11th 2011 @ 10:40am | Report comment
apaway, i only follow RL occasionally now but i feel sorry for you mate being a loyal Sea Eagles supporter .
November 11th 2011 @ 10:46am
Mals said | November 11th 2011 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Apaway – another thing to remember, Manly was without a major sponsor until 1 July this year so the club was not exactly flush with funds. Harry hindsight says we should have signed Hasler back in April or May but with the club struggling financially and Des having still 18 months to run on his contract you can see why this was not fast tracked.
November 11th 2011 @ 11:24am
Sea Eagle of Brisbane said | November 11th 2011 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Mals, I agree with you. Why hurry to sign up a coach who’s team just made the 8 (last year) and gone in the 1st round in the finals? It is pretty easy to be smart at the end of the year after winning the GF, but why not someone talks about the future and gets smart? Is anyone who criticizes Toovey now? Just in case we do not make the 8 next year, lots of smartypants will talk next year.
Roy Masters wrote in his column lately that if a club makes the GF 3 times in 5 years, the Board must be doing something right. It is impossible to play well for 5 years if the Board is dysfunctional.
Come on, can someone tell me in advance what will be the problem with Toovey or the team in the future? You don’t know? But you will know it afterwards. So why blame the Board now and credit the coach with everything?
November 11th 2011 @ 1:12pm
Matt F said | November 11th 2011 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
They didn’t do too badly to make the 8 given Stewart and Williams missed the whole season (Stewart obviously missed almost all of ’09 as well.) They were like two very handy new signings this season (though Williams missed the finals.) Foran and Cherry-Evans were quite good finds and developed quite well under Hasler and he clearly got on very well with the players. You could easily turn your line around and say “if you kake 3 GFs in 5 years, your coach must be doing something right.” Manly were sitting quite nicely in the top 4 when Des wanted to renegotiate so it’s hard to believe that the board were really questioning his future.
I won’t criticise Toovey. He hasn’t even coached a game yet and could turn out quite well, but it’s pretty obvious that Manly have, off-field, been off the rails since they won the competition. The board hasn’t handled this situation very well. I still expect Manly to play finals, probably make top 4 and from there anyone can win the comp. Tthe board is up for re-election this season aren’t they? I don’t think many of them will survive.
You would know more about them then I would but didn’t the board look a lot different a few years ago? Haven’t most of them, and the CEO, only been in for 12 months or so? I could be completely wrong there though.
November 11th 2011 @ 11:51am
Chris Chard said | November 11th 2011 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Norm Tipping got sacked after coaching St George to the 1956 Premiership…the fact that they won the next 10 in a row though probably took some of the sting out of the decision!
November 11th 2011 @ 12:08pm
Chris said | November 11th 2011 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Yeah, I’m not sure the Board should have signed Hasler up mid-year. Like others have pointed out, this would have been a year and half out from the end of his existing contract – much too early.
I wonder whether Hasler (for whatever reason) decided quite some time ago he was going to leave Manly. He’s been in the Manly system for so long now I think it will do him the world of good to take himself out of his comfort zone. But it’s been handled badly on both sides I think.
Manly does appear to be a basket case in so many areas.
November 11th 2011 @ 12:17pm
Ian Whitchurch said | November 11th 2011 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
Chris,
Hire the best people, and dont let them go. Hasler wanted to extend. Manly stuffed him around. He signed another contract.
By the way, Cherry-Evans probably should be signed to a new contract on a better salary as well, before we see the same story with him.
November 12th 2011 @ 1:43am
Queensland's game is rugby league said | November 12th 2011 @ 1:43am | Report comment
I cannot believe the Cowboys let Cherry-Evans go. His father was part of the Cowboys’ recruitment when he was a junior. The Cowboys didn’t take any notice of the father when he pointed out his son’s talent. Not the first time the Cowboys have let talented juniors go down south.
November 11th 2011 @ 12:53pm
Paul said | November 11th 2011 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
I wonder if the bulldogs are starting to get nervous, If he didnt get on with the board at Manly then i doubt he will get along with the board of the dogs, Also if he coaches them next year and they arnt in the top 8 five games into the season well be sitting back and watching the bulldogs implode.
November 11th 2011 @ 1:01pm
Matt F said | November 11th 2011 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Hardly. He didn’t get on with a board that is generally considered to be a complete mess while Todd Greenberg is widely acknowledged as one of, if not the best CEO in the NRL. Given where we finished last year, and given that this isn’t Des’ squad (assuming he even is coaching us next year) your 5 game implosion theory seems extremely remote as well. Nice try though
November 11th 2011 @ 2:29pm
Sea Eagle of Brisbane said | November 11th 2011 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Matt F, read what Max Krilich said: ‘Des is always Des, does not care about Manly, loves the money as No.1 issue in his life.’ Something, along these lines. You are just arguing, not adding anything to this conversation.
Des spat the dummy, simple is that. Watch what Delmege and Arthurson said on Foxtel videos. Hasler thinks himself above the Club, the success blinded him. Tried to poach players and stuff from Manly. Are you a relative of him? Do you think is that legal? What a feral act by Hasler, try to break a Club which made him famous.
Dog act.
November 11th 2011 @ 3:16pm
Matt F said | November 11th 2011 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
I saw them on Fox Sports. No evidence, just opinions and he said/he said scenarios. I notice how you blindly believe them over Hasler. Strange that….. Was it Krilich or Artho that also said that Des told them he didn’t try to poach any staff? And that they had no evidence to doubt him?
Hasler has said he never tried to poach staff. Cleal came out and said Des never tried to get him to sign with the Dogs and that he and Greenberg did a deal independently. Was it because he wanted to follow Des? Definately. Did Des tap him up? Maybe, maybe not. Prove it. The Bulldogs are well within their rights to chase these staff. Now that he is out of contract, so is Des.
So what if he left for more money (though some reports at the time stated that he could have earned more money under Manlys upgraded offer.) Wouldn’t you leave our job if you were offered substantially more money, especially if you and your boss didn’t see eye to eye?
If Manly were so confident that Hasler did breach his contract why did they ask the Bulldogs to pay out his contract for 2012? Could it be that they are worried that they don’t have the sufficient proof and were worried they would have to pay him out? Though now that his contract is terminated he can talk to any Manly player/staff. member he likes.
I didnt realise that in order to “add to the conversation” I had to blindly agree with everything you say. I will note this in future.
November 11th 2011 @ 5:19pm
Sea Eagle of Brisbane said | November 11th 2011 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
MattF, I have to admit that I made a big mistake twenty years ago. I bought a dog (boxer, I think) to my son when we lived in Sydney. Now my boy is a Bulldogs supporter and has the same line as you: I always think I am right and unless he agrees with me, we always argue. (I know that I should have bought a puss, terrible mistake it was on my part).
Anyway, ex ARL supremo, Ken Arthurson, ex Manly and Aussie captain Max Krilich, ex Manly owner Max Delmege getting info from friends and other reliable people that Hasler is constantly ringing staff and players about moving over to the Dogs, they all wrong. YOU are right, they are just ‘guessing’. When everyone knows in League circles that Bennett, Brian Smith and Co taking they staff with themselves when they change Clubs, there is no need ‘guessing’. It is fact. Obviously they discuss it together, it is fact.
So why don’t you believe all these people with a combined League experience of 150 years (and my 30 plus too) that this is the truth.
You can have the last word, the Doggies my second favourite team anyway, hope they will have a good team with Dessy.
November 11th 2011 @ 6:42pm
Matt F said | November 11th 2011 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
I’m not saying categorically that Des wasn’t tapping up staff, I don’t know. I’m saying that there’s no evidence for this and all those Manly greats are spouting opinions. They haven’t produced any evidence at all, in fact one of Krilich or Arko (I’m pretty sure it was Arko) said that he had spoken to Des and was taking him at his word that he wasn’t tapping up coaches/players. They are perfectly entitled to do voice their opinions but lets not confuse opinion with fact. They may well be right but until the full story comes out I will reserve judgement on that.
As tempting as it is to blindly believe everything my footy club, or people related to it, says as gospel its not always the best strategy.
On your son, had you bought him a puss he may have been tigers fan, or a Geelong AFL fan! If only Sea Eagles were easier to obtain!
November 11th 2011 @ 2:51pm
Midfielder said | November 11th 2011 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
The whole thing is a mess and like anything of this order it was not as i see it totally one sided…
I agree Manly should have signed DH earlier in the year… I do wonder what demands were being placed by both sides…
That DH got a better offer signed it and left is his choice … but no team has ever won a grand finale with hopeless management … that Manly have been so successful over recent times reflects a well-run club…
It was obvious that the CEO Scott Pen & DH had issues over what went on at the club… who was right and who was wrong is not open to debate as only a few would know…
But what is true is DH did not put the coaching team together… Bobby Fulton got Noel Cleal, Peter Peters had been at Manly for years.. meaning many of the appointments at Manly and many of the off field decisions made by the club were right otherwise they would not have been as successful…
None of this takes away from what a great job DH did, but it is also foolish to assume it was DH and DH alone who achieved this. What does irk me is the taking everything good at Manly you can lay your hands on and drag it to the new club… that is sad…
Also it would appear that DH had signed before the GF and the dogs were only too happy to come out within minutes of the GF and tell the world… So why go tho with the new contract talks when he had already signed…
Scott Pen by insisting on what we will never know mid-year, and firing PP for reasons according to Pen not related to the good sort remark, got DH to the point where he said enough is enough… for that Scott Pen should struggle to keep his job… but to openly drag or attempt to drag everything that was good at Manly largely set up by the Manly club does not sit well with me… the dogs also played a strong power game that one day may come back to haunt them…
November 11th 2011 @ 3:34pm
Matt F said | November 11th 2011 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
Whilst being a Dogs fan I’m not exactly impartial there’s a few things missing here.
DH was made manly coach in 2004. Cleal also joined in 2004. Whether DH signed/recommended him I’m not 100% sure but Fulton didn’t sign Cleal. Peters was the media manager for Manly and had nothing to do with the coaching staff (you could also argue that Cleal was in recruiting, not coaching though they are closely related.) DHs assiatants were picked by him, as are any coaches assistants.
The Bulldogs announced DH’s signing a week after Manly won the competition. Whilst the deal was apparently agreed earlier, it was agreed to put off the announcment until after Manly had finished their season (had they have lost in week 2 or 3 it would have probably been anounced earlier.) That’s pretty stock standard with these types of things. As for the apparent post-season negotiations I’m not sure if that was Hasler going to Manly for an offer (which qwould be very strange given he had already signed with the Dogs) or if it was Manly giving Des a late offer and Des saying no (which would make more sense.)
I don’t know how long each board member has been on the board for (I’d imagine they’d vary) but the Manly CEO David Perry was hired in May 2011 and it’s well known that he and DH didn’t get on. DH apparently got on very well with the previous CEO Graham Lowe. For what it’s worth Penn is the part-owner and board member, not CEO.
Did he really leave because he didn’t get on with the powers higher up or just because of money? I don’t know. The only person who really knows is DH
November 11th 2011 @ 8:28pm
Midfielder said | November 11th 2011 @ 8:28pm | Report comment
Matt F
Fulton did not sign him correct… but Fulton contacted him… agreed a price and when to the management and said sign this guy..
That he had signed for the Dogs was out the same night as the final … the dogs never said no …
However you are right it was David Perry not Penn who had the issue, posted in haste… … he should go…
November 11th 2011 @ 3:45pm
mds1970 said | November 11th 2011 @ 3:45pm | Report comment
Not exactly sacking a premiership coach, but there was a fairly recent AFL example of one not being reappointed.
Hawthorn coach Allan Jeans was hospitalised during the 1988 pre-season, and stood down on medical advice. Alan Joyce (not the Qantas bloke) took the reigns as caretaker in 1988 and guided the Hawks to the premiership. But with Jeans given the medical all-clear, Jeans took over again in 1989. (and took the Hawks to another title).
Joyce coached Hawthorn again in 1991 after Jeans retired and later coached the Western Bulldogs.
Had Collingwood got up in this year’s AFL grand final, we would now have what would have surely been a unique instance in which both the AFL and NRL premiers were not at their club the next season.
November 11th 2011 @ 5:41pm
Kuruki said | November 11th 2011 @ 5:41pm | Report comment
Hassler is an arrogant knob. He thinks he is god’s gift to coaching and the NRL. Let’s see just how great he really is when he does not have the team to make him look good anymore. I could have coached Manly to a premiership, just look at the roster they had.
November 11th 2011 @ 6:23pm
Sea Eagle of Brisbane said | November 11th 2011 @ 6:23pm | Report comment
Even though I am a Manly supporter, I agree with you. Sadly, he thinks that he comes before the Club. Unfortunately he is utterly wrong. He even told the Board not to book in to the same Hotel as the team when we go over to the World Challenge to England. I think arrogant is a light word, the bloke is an absolute self indulgent pr*ck. I cannot imagine he would tell the same thing to the Bulldogs or any other Boards in a million years. You are dead right, the players made him look good, now he claims that it is all his achievement.