Are Harry Kewell and Brett Emerton boosting A-League TV figures? (AAP Image/Joe Castro)
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One of the most common throwaway lines in Australian football is that Football Federation Australia needs to implement promotion-relegation between the A-League and a second tier competition (lumped with the name B-League, it seems). Sounds simple, doesn’t it?
The latest proponent for the A-League getting in line with the majority of the football world is Ned Zelic, in his column for the A-League website.
While he makes all the right points about promotion-relegation being part of the football’s DNA, how it’ll spice up the battle at the tail-end of the league, and how the Asian Football Confederation is putting pressure on FFA to follow the example of Asia (and the world), on how a second division can be managed, Zelic only says, “A lot will hinge on the volume of the new TV deal and how it will be distributed.”
Like so many others, he glosses over the financial (and other) realities that should preclude a second division.
This isn’t a dig at Zelic, as it’s endemic within Australian football – fans and media alike; simplifying things to the point where the harsh realities faced by the code are ignored in favour of grand (deluded) visions of where we want to see the game in the short-term.
This sort of talk is more damaging than any perceived anti-A-League agenda of those who properly assess whether such talk is a reality or not, particularly when the realities facing the game were highlighted in the recent Smith Review, the government’s latest examination into the state of Australian football.
Any talk a two-tiered A-League-B-League must rationalise the current financial state of clubs, who, according to the Smith Review, are currently losing a combined $20 million to $25 million per season, with the FFA pumping $4.6 million into Adelaide United, Brisbane Roar, Newcastle Jets and the North Queensland Fury, sending the governing body into the red.
The Central Coast Mariners is the latest club with “short-term cash flow difficulties” and desperately seeking a saviour.
If the Smith Review proposes no expansion of the A-League beyond the current 10 teams until “the competition is financially strong, or a tangible financial benefit can be achieved by expansion”, how can a B-League be implemented?
To put it in different terms, at a time when the governing body is insisting that A-League clubs need to stand on their own two-feet for the sake of their bottom-line, how are they going to concurrently introduce a system that could pull the rug from underneath them?
Think of what relegation to a second tier competition would do for the likes of Gold Coast United, who currently sit at the bottom of the table. Potentially robbed of fixtures against Harry Kewell’s Melbourne Victory, Brett Emerton’s Sydney FC and facing a season in a B-League with second-grade opposition, the already vulnerable club and its meagre supporter base would face oblivion given its already weakened state.
While the football romantics in us talk up promotion-relegation, fuelled by the political pressure coming from the AFC, there isn’t the reality backing it up, let alone a coherent answer to the question of how the B-League would work. This is what the FFA must accept when the AFC places its demands on them.
The FFA has two options when it comes to the B-League, and those two options are the same that they face with that other eternal question, expansion into western Sydney: either expand with another start-up franchise (Western Sydney Rovers, anyone?), or pick the best of the “old soccer” crew relegated from the deceased National Soccer League to the state leagues (NSW Premier League etc).
When it comes to the B-League, surely picking the strongest, most viably sound and financially well-off state league clubs is the only option available to the FFA. After all, the recent reviews into the game stressed the need for a “greater role” of second tier clubs in the growth of Australian football, and one assumes that means more than just their involvement in the FFA Cup.
But can “the volume of the new TV deal” alone (see here for more) really guarantee the financial viability of the A-League, protecting its clubs from the harsh realities of a second division (let alone the A-League itself), along with supporting another tier of the game on the national scene?
Putting it like that, promotion-relegation is a lot more complicated and far-fetched than some would have you think.
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December 8th 2011 @ 3:53am
AndyMack said | December 8th 2011 @ 3:53am | Report comment
Agree.
Dont feel that soccer has the depth of following in Aust, the way it does in other countries. No-one will care about B-League (terrible name as well) and teams that get sucked into it will struggle to survive, let alone win promotion.
Imagine if Sydney FC or Victory were relegated after having one shocking year?? Doesnt happen in the big leagues, as they dont have salary caps, so dont need to worry about Barca or ManU playing in 2nd divisions.
December 8th 2011 @ 8:38am
Kasey said | December 8th 2011 @ 8:38am | Report comment
No matter how the argument is framed, I can’ t get past the impression that people that believe in pro/rel are engaging upon a Quixotic quest to ape the Euro leagues in a vague notion that simply looking more authentic(European) will magically create the very football culture that took decades to build in Europe. Smith is correct in stating that just adding teams willy nilly will do nothing but p*ss a whole bunch of money up against the wall. Money the Domestic game just does not have. The answer to building a strong sustainable football culture is slow and steady growth with incremental steps. There is no silver bullet to magic away the ils of the game here. TheFFA needs to play the long game here by ensuring that the HAL is around for current fans to become parents and to take their children along to the football so that they grow up with the tradition of following a HAL club. Time is how you build strong community links so that a sizable fanbase exists in good times and bad. There are no short cuts to that.
I think you are right on the money with your proposition that the pro/rel proponents are frequently more anti-A=-League than they are pro A2 League [ can we please ban anyone who proposes B-League as a name…that term is already in use in AFC for the Bangladeshi League.] In an ideal world I prefer to follow the German Model of Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga; here it would probably be better marketed as the A.2-League
As a heads up, I notice that South Melbourne are having a big event on December 11th to ‘open’ their newly redeveloped stadium at the Lakeside venue. They have invited Sydney Olympic down for an exhibition game. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that they will get a big crowd. Hell If I lived in Melbourne I’d probably head along for a good day out with good Greek food despite not being a supporter of either team. I’ll bet sensitive body parts that the very next opportunity on this site we will be inundated with “ South/Olympic for the HAL” diatribes. Where we can re-hash all the same arguments that are brought up every time some clown suggests that the answer for the western Sydney ‘problem’ is Sydney Olympic. Oh I can’t wait for that.
December 8th 2011 @ 11:12am
Lucan said | December 8th 2011 @ 11:12am | Report comment
As a long time South Melbourne member, I’m realistically expecting somewhere between 500-800 punters on Sunday. Hope I’m wrong. Last time we got a 5 figure crowd was our first game back in state league football in 2005. Not even our 2006 Grand Final triumph drew 5 figures.
Hold your fire before spouting about a flux of South fans diatribe’s on this site. I know I can’t speak for everyone, but the vast majority don’t want to risk our club’s long term sustainability to enter the HAL while the existing franchises are struggling to make ends meet. And I think you’ll find the majority would agree that a second division is unfeasible.
I’m a huge advocate of bridging the gap, and believe the HAL and the state leagues can co-exist with a bit more respect from both ends seriously required.
Hopefully the Cup is put back on the agenda before too long, because divisional fooball will always struggle to get up in Aust.
December 8th 2011 @ 11:22am
Kasey said | December 8th 2011 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Lucan, I’ve been to the SMFC website and noticed that the entry fee for the day is FREE. You could end up with a very large crowd and make the money over the bar and the BBQ/Souvlaki tent. I wish the FFA would learn a similar lesson. Its surely better to have a full stadium(for perception and atmosphere purposes) and have the puunters use the money ‘saved’ on entry over the bar/canteen. As noted below, I am taken by the idea of MelbCro to establish an “NSL lite” Easyern Seaboard league as a mid level step between the top tier of the state league and the HAL. I think it would/could be beneficial to all parties and would be something that I would consider watching if it had coverage(perhaps on the internet?) In the absence of movement on the FFA Cup front, it could ask as a tool for engaging more than just the fans of the 10 HAL clubs in a football competition. My question would be, who would organise it? many clubs fans are not exactly thinking the FFA could organize a childrens party let alone a new league as well as the HAL and who would pay for it. The benefit of asking FFA for assistance is perhaps they could get Qantas to extend their sponsorship to include good deals for the NSL lite league and the new league would allow for transfer of players and for transfer fees too trickle down the pyramid.
December 8th 2011 @ 11:41am
Lucan said | December 8th 2011 @ 11:41am | Report comment
You run the danger of creating what is seen as a “rebel league”, which wouldn’t be recognised by FIFA.
That would lead to players with aspirations of the HAL or higher not signing to play in an AESL, so the quality of the football on the park would be even further comprimised.
Would love a mini league but think the best we can hope for is a professionally run State Premier League and FFA Cup to aim for down the track.
December 8th 2011 @ 11:53am
Kasey said | December 8th 2011 @ 11:53am | Report comment
As far as I’m aware, FIFA only prohibits a country having 2 Tier 1 leagues. As long as FFA reinforce in what ever way they needto that the A-League IS the one and only tier one league in Australia there shouldn’t be any problems. The ‘rebel’ league could infact play up its ‘ non-A-League-ness’ to draw in the fans like Johnno who yearn for the older ways of the NSL. In SA the SANFL had a campaign in recent years playing up the fact that it hasn’t ‘gone soft’ like the AFL has and if you want to watch ‘real tough hard at-em’ footy, at a very reasonable price$10) then an SANFL ground is the place for you. I’m pretty sure the AFL weren’t impressed and threatened to withold funding until the SANFL changed its strategy to focus inthe Tribal nature of the local league vice the national nature of the AFL. Either way, a point of difference exists and nobody is in any doubt as to what the path way is to the top league or even which league IS the top league.
December 8th 2011 @ 3:31pm
Ben G said | December 8th 2011 @ 3:31pm | Report comment
Except the FFA and the clubs wouldn’t see a dime from money put over the bar. Helping the bottom line of the stadiums would be the only benefit. You also devalue a product by giving away free tickets. When people have to start paying for tickets again they will run away in droves.
December 9th 2011 @ 2:14pm
Tanu said | December 9th 2011 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
The “Hyandai A League” is a bit like a children’s party.
December 9th 2011 @ 1:17pm
PeterK said | December 9th 2011 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
I think a better name for the “B-League” would be the “Challenge League” — it has a better feel to it for marketing.
Challenge League costs MUST be contained, and could be by two methods:
a. regionalise the early stages (cutting transport costs), and
b. smaller and cheaper stadiums with no TV coverage — which also encourages fans to attend rather than to watch from their lounge chairs.
Nevertheless, there would be costs, and it can not be introduced for at least a while yet.
But can’t we start planning such a thing, and possibly even (after a few years) implementing it for a year or two without the interaction (P/R) with the A-League until later?
Meanwhile let’s get the FFA Cup going!
December 8th 2011 @ 4:01am
Axelv said | December 8th 2011 @ 4:01am | Report comment
I agree completely.
Australia does not have the depth to support a multi tier system, both in support and money. We are not Europe, we do not have 700+ years of football history (they’ve been playing at least since medieval times) ingrained into our culture, football is not our biggest sport. Our stadiums are not bursting at the seams with fans, we do not have towns and clubs all over the country wanting to be in top flight football let alone afford and sustain it, we don’t have the money or depth.
Rather than trying to copy Europe just for the sake of it, how about we have a football league that suits Australia? Imagine Carlton football club reforming and being promoted to the A-League with 1000 fans average, and Melbourne Victory being relegated with it’s 25,000 fan average. Just who would this benefiting exactly? Andrew Demetriou perhaps? It certainly won’t be benefiting Australian football.
December 8th 2011 @ 9:44am
MelbCro said | December 8th 2011 @ 9:44am | Report comment
“Australia does not have the depth to support a multi tier system”
Pretty sure we already have a multi tier system in Australia. There is a thing called the State leagues you know. Its a matter of how the football pyramid underneath the A-League is structured. And that is something that is vital to the future of Australian football
December 8th 2011 @ 12:40pm
Tim Hamilton said | December 8th 2011 @ 12:40pm | Report comment
We have multi-tier leagues in every state MelbCro, but how many of those teams could afford to field:
- a team good enough not to get thumped 5-0 each week by stronger sides.
- establish facilities at an a-league level
- afford to fly the whole squad and entourage across Australia week in-week out
…on the incoming revenue where (worst case scenario) they’re holding up the bottom of the 2nd league?
To be honest, even after it became financially viable, I think any sort of prom/rel system at all needs to be a la the professional/amateur border in the English 80s. To move to Division 4 from the National Conference you had to be a) top of the conference, b) apply to join the professional league system, c) convince the FA you could afford the move at the level required by the FA (finances, facilities, etc.) and d) get the agreement of the clubs already in place.
December 9th 2011 @ 1:25pm
PeterK said | December 9th 2011 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
Tim, I thoroughly agree with your last point.
December 8th 2011 @ 4:08pm
Axelv said | December 8th 2011 @ 4:08pm | Report comment
I’m fully aware of the state leagues.
By depth I mean money and the general interest of people.
England is mad about football and every city and club dreams of making it to the big time. You have millions and millions of football fans that are willing to support the club in their area no matter which tier they are in. This is what I mean by depth. In England, the English Premier League is a big tip of a very large iceberg. In Australia scrape the tip off and there is nothing underneath, we don’t have a football culture like they do in Europe. There is no point pretending that we do.
If we had the popular clubs being relegated and the smaller clubs being promoted, this would spell disaster for crowds, interest, sponsorships and tv ratings for the top division league in Australia.
December 9th 2011 @ 7:09pm
Cappuccino said | December 9th 2011 @ 7:09pm | Report comment
Axelv, you are spot on.
December 8th 2011 @ 5:56am
Stevo said | December 8th 2011 @ 5:56am | Report comment
Spot on Adrian it’s pie-in-the-sky romantic nonsense. The two biggest football codes in this country AFL and NRL do not have P/L. In fact the AFL has done all it can to shore up the financial viability of its competition and isn’t wasting time diluting it with discussion about P/L. This is a dead duck topic for at least a generation or more – maybe then the circumstances will be different. Next topic please.
December 8th 2011 @ 6:13am
Whites said | December 8th 2011 @ 6:13am | Report comment
If you look at “football” in Australia in a broad sense we already have 49 professional football clubs in Australia with an overall crowd average of at least 20,000. Not bad for 22 million people. An A-League 2 is a long way off but it may happen in the next 20-30 years. Who’s to say what impact an FFA Cup will have on the state league sides after 10 years of existence?
December 8th 2011 @ 9:17am
Kasey said | December 8th 2011 @ 9:17am | Report comment
I used to have this fantasy that Australia only took up football and that all the big teams in this country were football clubs. A Nationwide Premier League might have been created in about 1977(when the NSL did it) containing the biggest clubs in the land. Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Manly, St. George, South Sydney, Parramatta, Port Adelaide, Norwood, Subiaco, South Freo, one or 2 teams from the BFL(BRL) and one from Tassie If that had happened I think we could have had a full pro/rel system in this country, but that might have seen the destruction of the SANFL/WAFL etc as these leagues reorganized also into national sub tiers. Of course the great game of Aussie Rules was invented(yes- despite being a true believing football fan, there will always be a place in my heart for Norwood and Aussie Rules)
I am 35 and if I live to be 80 I might just see an A2 league, but I certainly hope I see an FFA Cup before I turn 50. I think once the FFA cup kicks off, the reality of the former NSL clubs having been left behind in terms of playing standard, financial muscle and the costs involved will strip away some of the overly romantic ideals regarding pro/rel. That’s not a slight on the former NSL clubs, its a recognition that the standard improves year on year in the HAL and if the FFA continue to focus on putting resorces towadrs the top domestic league, there is no reason it cant continue to improve. A better TV deal could very well lead to an increased salary cap, which might keep players like Marcos Flores longer than the one season we had hm for. The roy morgan report going around at the moment suggest only good new regarding the audience for football in Australia and can only add to the case built by FFA for more money from the networks.
December 8th 2011 @ 6:16am
The Truth said | December 8th 2011 @ 6:16am | Report comment
So you have trouble filling out a top division and the answer is to make a second division? That makes no sense. Promotion and relegation is to accommodate more clubs than can realistically compete in one league over the course of a season. The current A-League does not have that problem at all.
And relegating struggling clubs only serves to kill them off more quickly. This would be a bullet in the foot for soccer.
December 8th 2011 @ 4:29pm
palmersadrunk said | December 8th 2011 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
“Promotion and relegation is to accommodate more clubs than can realistically compete in one league over the course of a season.”
That’s what seems to get missed in this whole debate. Promotion/relegation is a natural side effect of a large, deep and healthy competition. It can then be used as an indicator that the comp is deep and healthy. Its unfortunate that the ACL requirements are drafted so as to require this “symptom” of a healthy comp, rather than the “cause” – the healthy comp itself, but I guess there has to be some specific measure by which that health can be judged. What it means, though, in practical terms, is that if we want that extra ACL spot (and congrats AU, but that spot is not guaranteed next year), we need to get the comp healthy enough, deep enough, to make promotion/relegation viable. At the moment we can’t even go beyond a 10 team comp, let alone build enough to have an upper and lower tier.
A question to throw into the mix though: in expanding the a-league, do we need brand new entities a la Rovers? Why can’t we bring one or more of the NSL clubs in? Are we beyond the battle between old and new football yet?
December 8th 2011 @ 7:27am
Johnno said | December 8th 2011 @ 7:27am | Report comment
I think the best soccer model in Australia is keeping it as it is
1 national league
and And 6 state leagues works best.
Australia is a big country to unlike say england so travel costs to much for now to have 2nd division.
But a Australia cup or FFA cup is a must, can’t wait to see team form like cairns take on Sydney F.C.
December 8th 2011 @ 9:46am
MelbCro said | December 8th 2011 @ 9:46am | Report comment
“I think the best soccer model in Australia is keeping it as it is. 1 national league and And 6 state leagues works best.”
Thats would be fine if the state leagues weren’t a joke run by incompetent state federations
December 8th 2011 @ 10:12am
Johnno said | December 8th 2011 @ 10:12am | Report comment
I know the state federation are a joke, and ar just as bad as the incompetent FFA.
December 8th 2011 @ 12:22pm
Whites said | December 8th 2011 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
And why does NSW need 2 federations?
December 8th 2011 @ 8:36am
The Cattery said | December 8th 2011 @ 8:36am | Report comment
Agree with the conclusion of the OP and other posters, difficult to see how it could be sustainable in the Australian sporting landscape.
A second tier club would have the revenue earning capacity of a suburban footy club.
Looking at the premier football competition in the land – it’s a big, big drop from the AFL to the top 2nd tier leagues: VFL, SANFL and WAFL.
You’re talking about a drop in average crowds from 35,000 to around 3,000, a drop of in excess of 90% – with a similar decrease in revenue.
Also, in the Australian context, if there were to be P&R, you risk major cities like Perth and Adelaide going without a team in the top tier for years – it’s untenable.
December 8th 2011 @ 8:45am
Rusty0256 said | December 8th 2011 @ 8:45am | Report comment
The A-League must be allowed to grow ‘organically’; as crowds, TV money, professionalism and the quality of play improves. In this future A-league time and space, financial ink will gradually turn from blood red, to gray, to black. When a prospective owner or owners can look at financial viability being actually achievable (and provably so based on what other clubs are doing) within a known time-frame (say 5 years), only then will the league begin to expand, just as it has over in the MLS.
The final reason why it will take many years for a P-R model to work is that it will take that time for existing A-league clubs to build a rusted-on following; supporters who will be there, supporting their club even after relegation.
And when all these pieces have fallen into place and when the demand for places in the league outstrips supply will a ‘B-League’ be potentially viable. This may be 20 or even 30 years away but that’s just the way it will need to be.
December 8th 2011 @ 4:25pm
Johnno said | December 8th 2011 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
I agree Rusty0256 I am in favour of the game growing organically in Australia to.
Organic is the healthiest and most natural way, rather than unorganic ways of growing. To much modifying growing is unnatural .
December 8th 2011 @ 8:56am
Johnno said | December 8th 2011 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Has Bin Hammam been kicked out of the AFC, and as AFC president. He was the man putting all the pressure on the FFA, based on a mindless ignorant non awareness of the Australian football landscape, on the FFA to have a B league.
December 8th 2011 @ 8:58am
jamesb said | December 8th 2011 @ 8:58am | Report comment
I think we should worry about clubs getting their own boutique stadiums, rather than concentrate on a B-League or A2-League.
eg: Gold coast, Melbourne heart need their own stadiums.
Thats been the problem the last 3 years. We’re concentrating on something which would be hard to achieve, like winning a world cup bid, or a B-League, instead of just keeping it simple by making the A-League viable.
Promotion-relegation is probably 25 or 30 years away. I don’t think the A-League can be without Sydney FC or Melbourne Victory ATM in the top flight.