Test cricket batting averages: is 55 the new 50?
By Shivaji Thapliyal, 24 Dec 2011 Shivaji Thapliyal is a Roar Rookie
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World cricket has seen such tectonic shifts in the past decade that Test cricket has ceased to be what it once was. In fact, one wonders if the word ‘Test’ can be used to describe the game in the real sense of the word?
Is the skill of the batsmen really tested? Are they truly stretched to the full extreme of sinew and ability, or is Test cricket only a remnant of yore with the good, clothed in white, masquerading as the great?
One look at the Test batting and bowling averages reveals a lot. Surely, and one needn’t summon a statistician for this, Test batting averages have risen and so have bowling averages. So, does this mean that batting skills have improved and bowling standards deteriorated?
Surely, the human race hasn’t undergone a mutation over the past decade. Surely, there is more than meets the eye, or perhaps, one already knows the fact but just does not happen to discuss it. Vociferously enough, that is.
The simple fact is that Test pitches, on average, are more benign than they were a decade ago and this has had a profound impact on the way Test cricket is played today.
Even a decade ago, the likes of Donald, Ambrose and Younis could steam in and hope to instil some fear into the minds of opposition batsman. Half the battle was already won. In the mind!
But today, Tait, Steyn and rest cannot hope to rattle the batsmen in the same manner as before and this doesn’t really have to do with their skill as much as it has to do with the type of pitches curators dish out today.
One fondly recalls Shoaib Akhtar firing on all cylinders in the ODI World Cup in 1999. It was cricket at its sublime best. Each ball in excess of a 150 kmph and swinging magically away from or in towards the flaying bat, mesmerising the batsman, and the spectator along the way.
This is the cricket one would pay to watch. Not so much the slam bang affair in T20 cricket but genuinely fast bowling unleashed upon the batsman.
But the establishment, alas, defines “spectator-friendly” as a quantity directly proportional to the number of sixes being hit in an innings. No one is venturing to say that sixes are not attractive. But imagine how attractive they truly would be if they were hit off Shoaib at full steam as described above?
The best bowler in the world, Dale Steyn of South Africa, sits atop the Test bowling rankings and has dominated this list like no one’s business. So, what is the gentleman’s Test bowling average? 23.15. Now that’s not a number anyone would ever scoff at.
But what about Curtly Ambrose at 20.99, Glenn McGrath at 21.64 and Malcolm Marshall at 20.94? Joel Garner at 20.98? Sidney Barnes at 16.43? Is 23.15 the best this generation has to offer? Nay, tis but the pitch!
The best bowler of every generation has managed to keep his bowling average close to 21, but the times have changed and how. And if one looks away from Steyn, the bowling averages swell in a manner that makes this generation look (falsely) like one of sissies.
James Anderson at 30.57, Stuart Broad at 32.0, Morne Morkel at 29.46 and Zaheer Khan with 31.78 are the second, fourth, fifth and sixth ranked bowlers in the world. Need one say more?
In conjunction with this rise in bowling averages, there has been a rise in Test batting averages. Suddenly, the batting averages of Allan Border, Steve Waugh and Sunil Gavaskar don’t look that special after all. A Test average of 50 is more common today.
This is not to say that Test cricket in general and its traditions in particular do not have any takers. Test cricket has an ample following in the subcontinent. And it still is very much a craze in England. Australia is not too bad in this department either.
Wait a minute, doesn’t that pretty much cover a lion’s share of the geographies where cricket is played seriously? Yes, of course!
And, by the same token, wouldn’t there be enough cricket watchers who would pay to watch Pat Cummins charging in with full incentive to hurl the cherry at 155 kmph, and not merely the 145 kmph he attempts but can surely better. My word, yes! Need one say more?
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December 24th 2011 @ 8:02am
Ian Whitchurch said | December 24th 2011 @ 8:02am | Report comment
“Test cricket has an ample following in the subcontinent. And it still is very much a craze in England. Australia is not too bad in this department either.”
Is this true ? Or is it another example of someone making up stuff on the Roar that they want to be true ?
Test cricket crowds tend not to be published on the subcontinent, and that means to me they are appalling.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-11-15/top-stories/30402038_1_sourav-ganguly-eden-gardens-test-cricket is an example of recent coverage on Test cricket being abandoned by spectators in India.
Likewise, in Australia, Test cricket gets two to four days of reasonable attendances in some years – and even those attendances are easily matched by either big club games of Australian rules, Origin in rugby league or big Socceroos games for association football. On days three to five, crowds tend to be lower than those of poorly-attended club games in other sports.
December 24th 2011 @ 8:12pm
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 24th 2011 @ 8:12pm | Report comment
Please note that I used the word “craze” for England and “ample” for the subcontinent was meant as a mild word in the relative sense. It’s true limited overs cricket has a bigger following in India but cricket, as a whole, has a strong following in it and that includes test cricket.
The bottomline is that, broadly speaking, there are enough takers for test cricket across the cricketing globe.
December 25th 2011 @ 8:32pm
Ian Whitchurch said | December 25th 2011 @ 8:32pm | Report comment
Shivaji,
I note you have quoted an acute lack of numbers to support your opinion.
December 26th 2011 @ 6:54am
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 26th 2011 @ 6:54am | Report comment
Ian,
I find your logic rather interesting indeed. You desire numbers where none are needed and you shun them where they are important (in your comment on statistics).
No numbers are needed to support the fact that test cricket remains reasonably popular in India. In my article, I stated that test cricket is very popular in England and reasonably so over here. It is somewhat less popular than limited overs but popular nonetheless. I live here and I know what the atmosphere is like when a test series is on. You have stated a solitary example yourself which certainly doesn’t look like an abundance of numbers to me. In any case, for that particular match on that particular day played with the West Indies, a pale shadow of their past, the highest capacity cricket ground looking a bit empty does not really amount to much.
December 26th 2011 @ 8:04am
Ian Whitchurch said | December 26th 2011 @ 8:04am | Report comment
Shivagi,
You utterley misunderstand me.
Here is an example … “The best innings by an Australian batsman was Kim Hughes’ 100 not out against the West Indies at the MCG in 1981-2″.
With bare statistics, its a hundred, like hundreds of others.
In context, it looks better – he got 100 out of 198 all out, and the highest score in the match.
Looking beyond the numbers, it was an incredible innings – a century, on a viciously two-paced pitch against the best pace attack the world has ever seen.
Going to cricket attendances, in terms of attendances Test cricket gets surprisingly poor crowds in Australia.
I will use the MCG as an example.
http://www.mcg.org.au/History/Attendances/~/media/Files/Cricket%20Attendances.ashx
Let us compare these crowds to a not particularly successful AFL side – Richmond.
In 2009, Richmond got three crowds as good or better than that of the first day of a Test match against England or India. Their average crowds destroy that of Test cricket.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/crowds/2009.html
Or perhaps to the Melbourne Storm, a rugby league club in Melbourne
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/melbourne.html
Note the average crowd for *rugby league* in Melbourne is close to the crowds for the fourth day of a Test match.
Finally, English cricket grounds are small – Lords only fits 30 000. As a comparison, Goodison Park, home of Everton Football Club, fits 36 000.
Saying Test cricket is popular enough to survive is, bluntly, lazy self-delusion – cricket is a very risky career choice for an elite young sportsman, and if Test cricket cannot generate its own income, then it will be further marginalised.
Heres a copy of the 2009 ICC report. Things have got worse since then.
http://www.lords.org/data/files/mcc-multimarket-study-declining-test-match-attendance-2009-1-10342.pdf
December 26th 2011 @ 8:06pm
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 26th 2011 @ 8:06pm | Report comment
Ian,
I do not misunderstand you. I am only trying to have a balanced view but you are not budging an inch from your viewpoint, which you are entitled to if you feel you have enough reason. I fully understand the importance of understanding the context of cricket performances and not getting carried away with stats. I have already said that in my comment below (in the thread on stats). I know fully well, for example, why the term “flat-track bully” evolved. But do read my comment below as to how stats can be more important than you think. Sometimes, certain players are more “visible” and certain others don’t otherwise get as much credit. For the latter, it is the stats that come to their rescue.
And I am not delusional about the decline of test cricket’s popularity. I am only saying there still are some people who would like to watch it. Remember the decline is from its own former glory. It does not mean that its popularity is low from an absolute perspective. I too am concerned about test cricket’s decline and the treatment meted out to it by certain members of the establishment and I have lamented that in my article. The establishment tends to do what I does because of commercial reasons and I understand that fully well. I am only saying that there still are some of us who would like to watch test cricket, especially the way it was played even till a decade back. I know if people like me are not bought into, test cricket will slip into further obscurity as such things feed on themselves in a vicious circle. If not enough money will flow into test cricket, it will decline further and any hope that remains will be lost. I am only saying that there still an audience out there and the same needs to be tapped intelligently or else even this will dwindle.
December 26th 2011 @ 8:30pm
Ian Whitchurch said | December 26th 2011 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
Shivaji,
“And I am not delusional about the decline of test cricket’s popularity. I am only saying there still are some people who would like to watch it. Remember the decline is from its own former glory. It does not mean that its popularity is low from an absolute perspective.”
Test cricket operates in a marketplace where the best young athletes choose which sport to play professionally.
Australia may have found the next Shane Warne, and he plays for Sydney.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/nick-smith-keeps-sydney-in-spin/story-e6frf9jf-1225905060493
December 27th 2011 @ 1:03am
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 27th 2011 @ 1:03am | Report comment
Ian,
I am not an authority on Australia but if test cricket is popular in England and survives in India, it is enough really. In any case, India is more than 1/6th of humanity. If you are suggesting test cricket (and cricket as such) will meet with its demise in Australia, maybe someone should be bothered about that and maybe it can be prevented. Remember England invented cricket but it is more popular in India now that it is over there. Test cricket, if marketed properly, might be able to save itself. Golf isn’t an intrinsically spectacular sport but it has no shortage of revenues. Maybe test cricket just needs to change and evolve. And, as I said, it needs specific and monetary attention and needs to be marketed appropriately and to the right people.
In any case, I have made no claim about the future of test cricket. Who knows, it might indeed get wiped out. All I said was that I like watching fast bowling and I reckon there are a decent number of blokes who do as well. Now, don’t ask me how many.
December 30th 2011 @ 11:10am
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 30th 2011 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Didn’t go looking for this but thought should paste this here:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/sachin-tendulkar-eyes-his-favoured-scg-for-hundredth-ton/story-e6frg7uf-1226232897117
It says “The Melbourne match attracted a record crowd for Australia-India Tests”
December 30th 2011 @ 11:14am
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 30th 2011 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Did go looking and found this in a heartbeat (and didn’t look more):
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/sports/lorgat-says-tendulkars-feat-ashes-show-test-cricket-is-on-top
December 24th 2011 @ 8:54am
sheek said | December 24th 2011 @ 8:54am | Report comment
With respect to the banner headline, I agree – 55 is the new 50 with regards to test batting averages.
The 2000s has seen an explosion in ’50-plus’ batsmen. I think it could be safely argued each of these players is 2-5 percentage points above their true worth. But exactly how much for each player might have to be looked at in closer scrutiny. Tendulkar could be an exception, Lara also.
The corollary being there a fewer good bowlers with averages of less than 25 per test wicket.
Today’s batsmen enjoy so many more advantages from those that came before, that we should not get too carried away with their supposed greatness.
From an Aussie point of view, Hayden with a batting average of 50 is not intrinsically better than Morris & Simpson who both averaged 46, or Lawry with 47, or Ponsford at 48. Conversely, if his average could be accurately translated to today’s figures, Trumper is probably closer to 48-50 than his actual 39 from 100 years ago.
Of course, there’s a lot of imprecise perception that goes into these things. But I think if you’ve followed cricket a long time, & read the history, you can reasonably assess cricketers against each other across different eras.
Cricket stats are fascinating & tremendously useful. But they should never be used in isolation. You need to get a “feel” for each decade to truly appreciate the worth of great cricketers. That’s what makes it so enjoyable, & challenging.
December 24th 2011 @ 12:03pm
dasilva said | December 24th 2011 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Yeah, this is why I’m not even convince that Ricky Ponting is a better batsman than Steve Waugh and I never bought into best aussie batsman since Bradman tag that he gets.
During the 90′s Ponting average about 40 ish before cashing in the 2000′s (this probably explains why Ponting isn’t in the top 10 list in the Nicholas Rhode study)
Hayden, well him getting sorted out in virtually every tour to England even during the time when Australia were dominating sort of shows his ability to handle the swinging ball. I think he one of the major beneficiaries in cashing in the decreasing bowling standard in 2000′s especially when he average in the late 20′s there.
December 24th 2011 @ 1:41pm
Brendon said | December 24th 2011 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
Steve Waugh didn’t score a century until 1989. He didn’t score a century against a bowling attack that had a world class bowlers until early 1993 against the West Indies at the SCG. A series where he ended up averaging 25.33.
It wasn’t until 1994 against South Africa and then the following year against West Indies did Waugh start scoring runs against countries whose name didn’t start with “England”. And of course in late 1995 Ponting made his debut.
But of course by this time the likes of Marshall, Hadlee and Imran had retired. Plus the Botham’s and Kapil Dev’s were also gone.
Most of Waugh’s success came during Ponting’s time.
December 24th 2011 @ 10:41pm
dasilva said | December 24th 2011 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
Waugh was averaging 50′s in the 90s. Ponting didn’t. He cash in with Ponting in the 00′s but he cash in earlier before the glut in 00′s.
He did struggle in the 80′s and I’m quite sure people will say that proves that Steve Waugh wasn’t as good as Alan Border
As I wasn’t round then, I’m not going to comment on the Waugh vs Border debate..
December 25th 2011 @ 2:21am
Brendon said | December 25th 2011 @ 2:21am | Report comment
From Ponting’s debut until Waugh’s retirement in 2004 Ponting averaged 55.97
During that exact same time Waugh averaged 54.19.
Not much in it is there? To arbitrarily limit the time frame to the 90′s, when Ponting was a kid, is just cherry picking stats.
December 24th 2011 @ 6:14pm
Disco said | December 24th 2011 @ 6:14pm | Report comment
Spot-on with the flat-track bully Hayden.
December 24th 2011 @ 1:28pm
Brendon said | December 24th 2011 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
Firstly, it helps to get your facts right. Dale Steyn’s average is 22.82 with a S/R of 39.3 which is GODLY. FYI McGrath’s SR for bowling was 51.9. Waqar Younis averaged 23.56 with a SR of 43.4 which was regarded as awesome for his time.
But to have a strike rate of under 40 in tests? Unbelievable and amazing. But you “in my day” brigade wont admit it.
Marshall had a SR of 46.7 and averaged 4.64 wickets per match.
Steyn has 4 10 wicket hauls in 49 matches. McGrath had a total of THREE from 124 matches.
Steyn averages 5.2 wickets a match. McGrath averaged 4.54. At Steyn’s current rate if he plays the same amount of tests (124) he will finish with 645 wickets compared to McGrath’s 563.
Dennis Lillee averaged 23.92.
During Bradman’s time how many sub 22 avg bowlers were there?
Scoring rates are so much higher these days thanks to limited overs cricket (50 over AND 20 over). Its been well document how theres way less draws in test cricket these days even though bowling averages are higher. Think about it. If bowlers are conceding more runs per wicket but more games are finishing in results then something has to have radically changed in recent years and thats been scoring rates.
Batsmen are so much more technically correct and play a wider range of strokes than batsmen of previous eras. Border and Waugh didn’t exactly have the widest range of shots. Even Kallis and Dravid have picked up their scoring rates slightly in the past few years.
Kids from a younger age are trained a lot better to be more technically correct than previous generations. Technology and increased professionalism has resulted ways batsmen can improve their technique. With high definition cameras capable of filming at thousands of frames a second which means you can use extra slow motion to smoothly watch replays.
Compare that to what Border or Miandad had growing up in the 60′s and 70′s.
Of course there are injuries due to the amount of cricket. Fast bowlers over the past decade have been dropping like flies. Of course the BCCI doesn’t seem to care that the increase of cricket has hurt fast bowling since they’ve historically barely had any.
December 24th 2011 @ 3:45pm
Bayman said | December 24th 2011 @ 3:45pm | Report comment
“Batsmen are so much more technically correct”
I don’t think so Brendon because if that were true we would not have been knocked over for 47 in South Africa, nor for less than 100 about five times in the last couple of years – nor would we have found Hobart so difficult. Once again you have confused technique with scoring rate.
Based on that argument can we assume that Pattinson’s performance with the bat in Hobart was better than Warner. Warner scored 123no at a strike rate of 72.35 while Pattinson scored 4 at a strike rate of 100. I’m pretty sure you don’t really think Pattinson is a better batsman than Warner.
I do agree that on the circumstantial evidence strike rates today are higher than in (most) days gone by. I disagree with your logic which suggests this is because they are technically better. Could it not be simply down to flat tracks, cannons for bats and roped boundaries – not to mention bowlers who, for the most part cannot deviate the ball at will – or at all.
One reason why Steyn, for example, may have such an impressive record is that he is a good bowler among many technically deficient batsmen. The front foot lungers are bread and butter for a bowler like Steyn.
By the way, I’ll think you’ll find Bradman’s strike rate would put most – nah, all – modern “greats” to shame. By your own definition then modern batsmen are not technically better than players of a previous era (I’ll concede Bradman is a special case).
The very idea that Ponting, Hussey, Clarke, Hughes et al are technically better than Barry Richards, Garry Sobers, Greg Chappell, Geoff Boycott, Colin Cowdrey, Peter May, Neil Harvey, Norm O’Neill, Bert Sutcliffe is laughable to anyone who has seen them all play.
Give most of these guys a flat track, a roped boundary and a modern bat and watch their strike rate start to terrify bowlers (I’ll accept it may not make much difference to Boycott – though he did, at one stage, hold the record for the fastest one day hundred in England).
December 25th 2011 @ 1:46am
Brendon said | December 25th 2011 @ 1:46am | Report comment
I’ve explained to you that players ARE much more technically correct and have been so for the past 15 years. Talk to anyone involved in the game TODAY. I’m talking first grade to test level – not just the greats. Compare someone like Kepler Wessels to a modern player. Someone with such a limited range of strokes wouldnt make it today. Players that are off or on side only would struggle. Shaun Marsh wouldnt make it into the test team today if he batted like his father.
Colin Cowdrey was fat and EVERY critic points out how meandering he was. Sobers’s averaged is inflated by not playing South Africa and beating up sub-standard Subcontinent teams. Bert Sutcliffe averaged 40. Geoff Boycott was more of a hindrance to his team than not. Why do you think all his old teammates hate his guts? He took Yorkshire to bloody court to get his position back. Classy move.
Yeah, Greg Chappell was very technically correct. He came from a famous cricketing family and was drilled hard from a young age which proves my point. Barry Richards played 4 tests matches.
And spare me your “I saw these players play so I know better” crap. Did you see W.G. Grace play? Did you see Fred Spofforth play? Did you see Lohman or Barnes play or Victor Trumper play? Did you see Jack Hobbs play? So stop talk talking out of your butt.
And as for your example of Pattinson having a higher scoring rate than Warner? Are you trolling or are you just an idiot? I have no respect for the junk you write at the best of times but that was just ridiculous. And did you notice how Warner’s SR of 72 was higher than the players who tried to “dig in” and “put their heads down” and got out for low scores? A SR of 72 for an test innings is excellent. You cant ask more than that.
I’m sick and tired of proving your “in my day players were better” BS wrong.
December 25th 2011 @ 9:37am
sheek said | December 25th 2011 @ 9:37am | Report comment
Brendon,
No player from the past can compete with today’s players – they’re either very old or very dead!
However, as Bradman himself said, “a champion in one era is a champion in any era”.
The point is, technology will always tend to improve things, at least until the next “dark age”.
So from the point of technology, nutrition, etc each succeeding generation will be bigger, stronger, faster, with better equipment, etc.
But don’t confuse this with being intrinsically superior…..
December 28th 2011 @ 8:54pm
Bayman said | December 28th 2011 @ 8:54pm | Report comment
Brendon,
You rabbit on and on about “proving” things and all you ever provide is your uninformed, amateur opinion and proof of your monumental ignorance. You may well be impressed by strike rate and God knows what else but it’s all irrelevant rubbish. Let’s take a random example……today at the MCG.
India lose 7 for bugger all and Australia, with two and a half days to play, manage to get to 4/27 and end up with 8 for not much. On a pitch that anybody with any skill would pay to bat on. And for the sake of argument I’ll even ignore Hobart and that 47 a month ago.
Tell us all once again about those superior modern techniques. And this time justify with something other than strike rate which, apparently, is all you know about cricket.
As for your criticisms of masters Sobers, Cowdrey, Sutcliffe and Boycott I can only say…what insight! What depth of analysis? What intelligence? And I mean WHAT insight, depth of analysis and intelligence?
All you have done there is embarrass yourself with your ignorance and lack of…..well, anything really.
You are a tosser, Brendon, with a seriously inflated opinion of your understanding of the game. Everybody else is an “armchair idiot” to you but it never seems to occur to you that you, yourself, may be one of those “armchair idiots” by virtue of your own contributions to the Roar. Apparently you see yourself as the one true visionary amongst all the dead wood. Sonny, have I got news for you!!!
What you know about the game could be written on a postage stamp…..and all it would say is “strike rate”.
“I’ve explained to you that players ARE much more technically correct and have been so for the past 15 years. Talk to anyone involved in the game TODAY”
You have not explained it all, Brendon, you’ve told us your opinion…..over and over. But without explanation. I presume you equate “explaining” with you telling and expecting us to believe you just because you said it. Unfortunately, since most of us know you know jack we find it difficult to believe you.
And Brendon, talk to anyone involved in the game today about what? If I talk to an idiot like Ian Healy I might find that all you have to do is smash bowlers if you’re a batsman and bounce batsmen if you’re a bowler. If I talk to, say, Matthew Hayden he might say all you’ve got to do is walk down the pitch and smash bowlers and intimidate them. If I talk to Dale Steyn he might tell me all I’ve got to do is pitch it up there and the batsman will commit suicide. However, it never seems to occur to you that Hayden and Steyn may succeed because of the weakness at the other end!
In the modern game they all might be right. If, however, I talk to commentators and cricket journos (in other words, guys who have seen more than the past five years), I might find there is a distinct opinion that modern batsmen are very limited indeed when it comes to Test cricket. Sure thay can smash T20 bowlers out of the park…..but they have trouble concentrating more than a session. Think Brad Haddin whose time frame seems measured in minutes rather than hours when he’s batting.
I might take the liberty to ask, Brendon, just who you have talked to in the modern game today. I find it fascinating that you can categorically dismiss criticisms of modern players even if that criticism comes from former Test players – I know, I’m just assuming they know more about the game than you (that’s my weakness).
Those of us who saw Sobers at least know now that not playing South Africa inflated his average. What a lucky bloke Garry was – not to mention the South Africans. We also know that since Barry Richards only played four Tests he could not have been very good. Ah, that Richards, in only his second Test he just managed to crawl to 96no at lunch on the first day – and Lawry took 20 minutes to bowl the last three overs of the session to deny him his century before lunch. But, as you say, he could not play! Thanks for the insight guru. We may, however, disagree!
I would also like to read your thesis on why seeing some players play, and not others, has any bearing on my arguments. It has plenty of bearing on yours, by the way, because you have dismissed those unseen players out of hand.
You’re right, I did not see Trumper but I am prepared to believe how good he was for no other reason than I have talked to people who did see him play – and saw Bradman, McCabe, Macartney, Miller, Hassett et al – and could make an intelligent comparison. In some cases those people played against him. I’m prepared to accept their judgement on face value given the wealth of supporting information from other sources e.g. England and South Africa.
“Colin Cowdrey was fat and EVERY critic points out how meandering he was.”
This may well go down as one of the most, I’ll say uninformed (even if I meant unintelligent), things anybody has ever written about Cowdrey or cricket. I don’t see the need to justify Cowdrey since those mysterious “critics” have generally covered it. Suffice to say, one of the great English Test batsmen, and most of those “critics” will agree. Where did you get that opinion other than out of your ar……never mind, I forgot, that’s where your brain is!
Looking forward to reading many more famous Brendon contributions in the months ahead. In future though just write “Strike rate” since that just about sums up your entire knowledge of the game.
P.S. At the “G” today, you must have been impressed with 4/27. All that technique just filling the ground everywhere you looked. Bloody fabulous!
If you really believe players of the last fifteen years have superior techniques than those names I mentioned then you are deluded. There’s nothing anyone can do about that. You have observed the evolution of cricket but you haven’t understood it – nothing can be done.
December 24th 2011 @ 5:13pm
Ian Whitchurch said | December 24th 2011 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
rendon said
“Of course there are injuries due to the amount of cricket. Fast bowlers over the past decade have been dropping like flies. Of course the BCCI doesn’t seem to care that the increase of cricket has hurt fast bowling since they’ve historically barely had any.”
Maurice Tate bowled 12 523 deliveries of Test and 150 461 deliveries of First Class cricket
Glenn McGrath bowled 29 248 deliveries of Test, 12 790 of one-day and 41 759 of First Class cricket.
Ahh yes, the mythical increase in the amount of work bowlers do these days, quoted by people who cant be bothered to find out what a five-day-a-week job being a cricket professional used to be.
There is very little film of the great batsmen – here is some snippets from 1930. Note the acute lack of helmets.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/21462.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/player/6565.html
December 25th 2011 @ 1:55am
Brendon said | December 25th 2011 @ 1:55am | Report comment
Tate had a first class career of 25 years minus war years. He played 39 tests over 11 years.
Can you really compare English country cricket to the modern international game? It was glorified village cricket compared to the modern game.
Did you count all the devileries McGrath bowled in the nets? Do you think players back in the 1920′s trained as hard as they do today?
Of course not.
December 29th 2011 @ 12:32am
Bayman said | December 29th 2011 @ 12:32am | Report comment
Brendon,
They may not have trained as hard – as in the gym – but they bowled a hell of a lot more than they do today. So they didn’t need to train as much.
I’d also be careful about putting McGrath’s work in the nets up against a bowler like Tate who would have bowled considerably more in the nets than McGrath, or any modern bowler, had ever considered possible.
McGrath, for example, played just 26 matches for NSW in a fourteen year career. He wasn’t exactly killed by the workload. I’d be pretty comfortable in thinking Tate bowled a few more balls than Glenn McGrath.
December 24th 2011 @ 8:23pm
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 24th 2011 @ 8:23pm | Report comment
Just happened to click the Wikipedia link on Dale Steyn instead of Cricinfo’s, which I usually do. So, I hope you won’t crucify me for this! Wikipedia is still showing 23.15 and should be updated before long and, if you really want to be a stickler, even Cricinfo sometimes does not give you the absolutely up to date stat.
And 22.82 does not change the message of the article especially on account of the averages of the bowlers who follow Steyn in world rankings. It also means that to even say Steyn’s average of 22.82 (or 23.15) in these times is colossal is but an understatement!
December 25th 2011 @ 1:50am
Brendon said | December 25th 2011 @ 1:50am | Report comment
Why are you focusing on averages only? Steyn’s SR of 39.3 is just simply brilliant and should be applauded more than his average.
Thats why cricket needs its own version of moneyball. So people can value different stats and come to realise that averages aren’t everything.
December 25th 2011 @ 5:13am
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 25th 2011 @ 5:13am | Report comment
Brendon,
Me not mentioning the strike rate does not mean that I consider the strike rate unimportant. It is important. Quite important. But do you think the bowling average has been the most important statistic for judging bowlers over the decades due to chance? The strike rate measures penetration and the runs per over measures profligacy but each is incomplete as a standalone statistic. It is the average (runs per wicket) that marries the measurement of penetration and profligacy and hence, among the standard statistics, is a complete statistic.
Secondly, and I have already repeated this, this article is not a negative criticism of Steyn or the other pace bowlers of today. And, in my comment, I emphasized that Steyn’s average, in the current times, is mind-boggling for want of a stronger phrase. Had he been operating a decade back, his average may as well been in the high teens.
December 25th 2011 @ 4:28pm
Ian Whitchurch said | December 25th 2011 @ 4:28pm | Report comment
Nahh,
Any system that values Glenn McGrath’s wicket the same as Steve Waughs’ is a flawed system.
Personally, I value a bowler for five- and ten-wicket hauls most of all.
December 25th 2011 @ 6:11pm
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 25th 2011 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
Ian,
Counting the five-fors and ten-wicket-hauls has the exact same “flaws” that you referred to!
December 25th 2011 @ 8:17pm
Ian Whitchurch said | December 25th 2011 @ 8:17pm | Report comment
Shivaji,
Absolutely – any stat is meaningless without context.
I want big-match temprament, and the proven ability to win games. Then I’ll look at team balance, and who we need for what role. After that, I’ll start weighing up stats
December 26th 2011 @ 7:13am
Shivaji Thapliyal said | December 26th 2011 @ 7:13am | Report comment
Ian,
Firstly, someone who states statistics is not meaning to say human judgement not based on statistics is meaningless. All of us know that Dale Steyn is the best bowler in the world and may not need to look up his average. But, then again, the fact that his average is the best only means that the average has value (very good value) as an indicator of ability. Certain statistics will always have their (significant) importance.
Also, an overdependence on arriving at conclusions subjectively may, on occasions, have its pitfalls. For example, sometimes, there is a tendency of popular media to romanticize certain colourful characters to the extent that people start believing what is written about them. Examples are Shane Warne being considered the greatest spinner of all time, Andrew Flintoff being considered a great when it came to all-round ability and other such cases.
December 28th 2011 @ 9:05pm
Bayman said | December 28th 2011 @ 9:05pm | Report comment
…and strike rate, on its own, is positively meaningless!
December 24th 2011 @ 3:11pm
Bayman said | December 24th 2011 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
It may even be the case that 55 is the new 45. Certainly the decks are more batsmen friendly in recent years but it’s not just that. Roped in boundaries provide sixes where in days gone by the same hit provided wickets. Now, the batsman benefits and the bowler suffers which helps explain the rising averages of both.
In addition, there are the bats. Today even the mis-hits carry the rope or the edge still provides enough bat to send the ball flying to the square boundary. Not to mention the blocked ball which today can still power to the straight boundary without any additional help from a follow through. The commentators may well say, “Gee, he’s timed that well” but it’s the bat, as much as anything which has provided the result.
The rise of one day, and T20, cricket in recent generations is another reason why pitches have become so mandatorily flat. Short form cricket is all about runs as far as the entertainment aspects are concerned. Then, dare I say, there is the financial imperative of a Test which has administators telling groundsmen that Test matches are scheduled for five day for a reason.
All of which has helped the modern batsmen become front foot plonkers because the pitch could be trusted and the bounce was generally true. The art of playing off the back foot was lost which shows itself whenever an abberation like Hobart appears on the radar. Most of the batsmen, from both teams, had simply no idea how to survive on what was, in reality, a reasonable wicket for Test cricket.
This front foot instinct is exactly why Duncan Fletcher labelled Clarke a “nicker” and why Ponting is in so much trouble so early in his innings. I won’t even begin to talk about Haddin.
Throw in the fact that bowlers had become more “back of a length” like Siddle and it’s nor hard to see why the quicks of recent times have had so much trouble getting anybody out – especially if like Cook last year they had a rough idea where their off stump was and were not inclined to play at everything.
Two things about Hobart were pleasing. McDermott clearly telling Siddle to pitch it up and give the ball a chance to work and that track which, if produced more regularly, will bring back foot play back into favour.
Given Bradman was a back foot player it’s difficult to understand why that method has been so easily discarded. Especially since, up until recently when players lost the knowledge, all the great batsmen were back foot players. It wasn’t a coincidence.
One simple observation re the new playing conditions. I noted during the recent Shield game in Sydney the rope was in “x” feet from the fence. During the opening Big Bash game it was in a further five feet at least. Twice the out-fielder stood just inside the rope and the ball bounced off his hands for six. In a Shield game it would have been out both times. In the days of old it would have been out both times with a degree of comfort. Smith actually took a catch just inside the rope and had the smarts to toss it up in the air while he stepped out of play, then stepped back into play to complete the catch. It looked magnificent but would have been completely unnecessary in a Shield game now or in days gone by.
I remember when Neil Harvey was the only batsman in Australia’s top six who averaged over fifty and even he fell just below by the time he retired. Not that long ago I also remember the entire top six averaged over fifty and, trust me, they were not that much better than their predecessors. Decks, ropes and bats have made a difference along with the bowlers inability to pitch it up and actually swing the ball to any great degree. It’s why, when an opposition bowler turned up who could move the ball, we were/are frequently in trouble because the front foot lunge is not conducive to combating a swinging ball.
December 25th 2011 @ 2:13am
Brendon said | December 25th 2011 @ 2:13am | Report comment
Again complete rubbish.
During Bradman’s era there were plenty of great batsmen but hardly any great fast bowlers. Gubby Allen?
But seriously even Larwood’s test average was only 28 and so was Voce’s. There were Grimmett’s, O’Reilly’s and Verity’s but few great fast bowlers until post war. The 20′s and 30′s were a good time for batsmen.
Hobbs, Herb Sutcliffe, Hammond, Headley, Bradman, Woodfull, Ponsford, Hutton, Compton average 50 or close to it.
Then post war to mid 50′s you had Walcott, Weekes, Worrell, Harvey, Sobers, Barrington make their debut and average 50 or close to it for their careers.
Mind you all those I’ve listed have come from only 3 countries.
And lets not forget that theres more countries playing now. South Africa was kicked out just as they were developing their first 50+ players in Pollock and Richards. There was no Sri Lanka back in those days and India and Pakistan have become so much more competitive in the past 30-35 years.
December 25th 2011 @ 10:55am
sheek said | December 25th 2011 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Bradman certainly thrived in an era (1930s) where batsmen dominated over bowlers. However, with a batting average of 99.94, more than one-third whole better than the next 3 batsmen – Pollock, Headley, Sutcliffe – arguments against him, or his era, are useless.
We will leave Trott out for the moment, as I suspect he will return to the field eventually.
Steyn is one of the finest bowlers of the 2000s, as was Tate for the 1920s. Steyn wins a direct comparison hands-down, not only statistically, but also in terms of domination, individually & for the team.
Larwood was as good as any fast bowler to play the game. But he was poorly used by England captains & selectors.
Jardine in 1932/33 being the stand-out exception. Larwood showed in bodyline what he was capable of, when used effectively by his captain. Fortunately for Australia, England stuffed up with Larwood on just about every other occasion.
This is yet another factor that must be considered when comparing players of different eras. In the pre-fully professional era, there were often other intrigues at play that need to be considered.
Again I will emphasize, while today’s players are bigger, stronger, faster, fitter, healthier, it would be a huge mistake to automatically assume they are intrinsically more skillful. Sometimes, the reverse is true.
December 28th 2011 @ 9:28pm
Bayman said | December 28th 2011 @ 9:28pm | Report comment
Brendon,
What the f… are you actually talking about? Certainly not what I was talking about.
It never ceases to fascinate me that you fail to understand that if all those batsmen YOU mentioned were averaging close to, or over 50, then perhaps it was because they could actually play.
You seem to think the bowlers were no good. How the hell would you know Brendon? I get the feeling you never even saw Greg Chappell play…or Allan Border…or anyone before Ricky Ponting.
Brendon, how about uncovered pitches, old style bats (not the modern cannons), unroped boundaries, protective equipment. It amazes me that you cannot see that these conditions have changed to the benefit of the modern batsmen. Do you really think Hayden would have been marching down the wicket to Larwood without a helmet and the padding……or to Lillee and Thomson…..or to Snow…..or to Griffith and Hall etc. If you do, you’re kidding yourself. On reflection, he might have done it once!
In future Brendon I suggest you limit yourself to talking about players you’ve actually seen play because you know jack about the rest.
December 24th 2011 @ 6:53pm
sheek said | December 24th 2011 @ 6:53pm | Report comment
Go Bayman Go…..!
December 29th 2011 @ 5:42pm
andy said | December 29th 2011 @ 5:42pm | Report comment
Its easy to get on the front foot when you are wearing a helmet. Its no wonder the aussies have struggled against the swinging ball. The instinct to go back and play the ball late when the ball swings is gone.
Greg Chappell was a very very good bat – god he had to bat against roberts holding garner croft and daniel, and that was just the west indies. His brother Ian tried to take them on at every opportunity and was ultra aggressive – without a helmet.
I think the batters these days have it easy – although watching tendulkar scoring at a run a ball in the current MCG test when everyone else toiled, was a joy. I would love to see more hobart type pitches and more like this MCG one. It makes test cricket a true test for the batters.
Best batter I ever saw though was Viv Richards. Imagine what he would have done in the last 10 years on the benign pitches that have been presented
February 5th 2012 @ 12:18am
David said | February 5th 2012 @ 12:18am | Report comment
Times change unfortunately which means the game changes too. As much as I long for the traditions of old and the skills that we values one must acknowledge the skills that are valued today are different. Warner is a freakish talent that will be appreciated in this age and rightly so. I only hope that the incredible and most probably unpassable deeds of the legends of the past (The Don, Sachin, Kallis and Ponting) will not be forgotten in this modern era. Class is class and let’s celebrate what we have seen and what we have today.