It’s not time to Palmer off Gold Coast. Yet!
Roar Guru By Davidde Corran, 22 Feb 2012 Davidde Corran is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- A-League, Ben Buckley, Clive Palmer, FFA, football, Gold Coast United
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Clive Palmer has wrought destruction on his own club (AAP Image/Laine Clark)
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There was a lot of anger, a lot of frustration and a lot of non-sense but in Clive Palmer’s 16 minutes on SBS TV’s The World Game program the other night. There was also a lot of truth.
All the different emotions that have sprung up across the board since the owner of Gold Coast United called the A-League a “joke” in a Queensland newspaper on Sunday, and then some, came to the fore again.
It was a spectacular spray that included such highlights as:
“We see the CEO of Rugby League earning less than a million dollars, we see the top five executives at the FFA paid over five million dollars and we see a situation where FFA was insolvent and had to get eight million dollars from the Australian government.”
“We paid $500,000 for our license … poor old Nathan Tinkler had to fork out $7 million for his license and the guy that took over Wellington I think paid a similar amount. I don’t know why that happened. None of that money went back to the clubs, none of that money went back to the players, it all went to the coffers of the FFA to pay inflated salaries of the management.”
“It’s like the US revolution back in the 1700s when there was no taxation without representation.”
“The fact the FFA has run out of finding new owners every year to replace owners that are leaving the club(s)”
“I’m a football fan that’s spent $18 million dollars of my money trying to make (Gold Coast United) work. Has any of you spent that much? Has the FFA spent that much? Has Frank Lowy spent that much? Has Ben Buckley spent that much? I doubt it.”
Palmer also clarified his comments that he doesn’t “even like the game” and that “Rugby league’s a much better game.”
“What I was saying was not that I don’t like the playing of the game, but that I don’t like the game the way it’s set up in Australia and we could do a hell of a lot more and make the game much more important and relevant to the Australian community,” he explained to SBS TV’s erudite David Basheer.
“I like the game, sure. I just don’t like the way it’s run and the thuggery that goes with it.”
This explanation, coupled with the raft of grievances he emphasised, showed why rash responses that Gold Coast United must go were mistaken.
Booting the club out of the A-League in anger and frustration as a crucial TV rights deal approaches and a raft of issues between the majority of the league’s owners and FFA remain would be a mistake.
Cool heads must prevail and the response should be measured and in the best interest of the game.
There was an unavoidable symmetry in Clive Palmer going on national TV wearing a Come Play scarf from Australia’s doomed World Cup bid as his own football endeavour teeters on the brink.
What we saw from the mining magnate though was a dogged and fiery A-League club owner ready to defend his own patch, but that passion was decidedly lacking when FFA CEO Ben Buckley followed him onto The World Game set moments later.
It wasn’t just the Australian World Cup bid merchandise. Clive Palmer came to play but Ben Buckley didn’t. Maybe he needed to borrow Palmer’s scarf.
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- A-League, Ben Buckley, Clive Palmer, FFA, football, Gold Coast United
February 22nd 2012 @ 5:30am
Johnno said | February 22nd 2012 @ 5:30am | Report comment
The Clive Palmer interview was so refreshing and honest, Clive comes across as a really down to earth and intelligent man. I can see why he has made good money he is very good communicator, intelligent , and down to earth, and quite charismatic, a good salesman if you like very convincing.
Some great points Palmer raised:
- The unequal cost of FFA licence, he payed little for his where has Nathan Tinkler paid more for his
- He didn’t bring up the cost to rent skilled park but should off in relation when asked about the crowd issues
-he i think talked about some sort of state of origin series or more help for the state league i don’t know
- he talked abbot the $4million losses on average for each club
-he talked about more open communication and more freedom to discuss issues and less if you like the secrecy or using the phrase “cloak and dagger” manner keeping things quiet and secret so to speak.
-he spoke about the olyroos which i agreed with and not right selections.
-only thing i didn’t agree with Clive was about foreign coaches, . We need foreign coaches, CLive wants foreign coaches, but i have no issues if more coaches are dutch than australian as we need the top talent right now we have not developed enough but elite top professional football that the A-league is showing standard wise young in this country compared to Europe , so we have not had the same time to develop top local coaches.
A-league only started in 2005 so still a young league. Are the problems teething, or are they bad management from the FFA. Many interesting questions. im sure in 2012/13 there will be massive changes after a review at end of 2012 which Ben Buckley did talk about in his interview, . i have been trying to find some articles on the newspaper some interesting views on Ben Buckley mixed good and bad reviews of his performance of him as chairman. I don’t think Foz has total confidence in Ben Buckly he did talk about the financial losse with him on the world game on sbs in his interview.
-I think also what needs ot come out of this is this. These big bussnessman are not stupid and if they invest there hard earned money as clive made the point $18 million,, they do deserve a big voice and respect, as the game needs clive palmer and nathan tinklier and tony sage they are the ones with the money.
And Frank Lowy is ruch bussnessman too in the clive palmer and Nathan Tinkler league , I think he has more money than both of them, so he of all people should relate to wealthy business man having a say on how things are run.
-And the FFA have to adress i think 3 more issues too, at the end of this season
- FFA cup model , mirabellla cup was good now lets get a national FFA cup
-Ben Buckleys future as CEO
- And a succession plan for Frank Lowy. Frank Lowy is 81 he was born in 1930. He will be 82 this year in October. He will not be around for ever. I think within the next 5 years a new chairman will have to be looked at as well. and they may not find someone as rich as Frank lowy to lead the FFA.. Would clive Palmer or Tinkler be interested i wonder in being the bossier chairman of the FFA i wonder or Tony Sage or a James Packer I wonder.
-And it surprises me as Frank Lowy has had a lot to do with old football I thought he would please the old football factions more and incorporate them more as he had a lot to do with old football as he was a former president of Hakoah.
- But more needs ot be done to remember the contribution i think of many of the old NSL clubs that are now state league clubs. And a fully inclusive FFA cup with al state league teams or at least the top 2-4 form each state would be a good start perhaps.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:23am
Kasey said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
Problem I have with Parma’s rant on Monday night was his scattergun approach. He argued with passion and very little rational thought. The divided nature of Australian football meant everybody was able to latch on to the one phrase that resonated with them and run with it, ignoring all the other stuff. Case in point. His rant against FFA fitted in nicely with SBS’s views on the domestic football scene and they completely failed to take him to task over his ludicrous claim tat GCU is a success, simply because it pays its bills. A success, there are many other measures of it, and IMO, doing not much besides paying your bills, alienating your few supporters and creating a whole swathe of negative press for the game and the GHAL ought to have SBS asking Clive to explain himself. Instead, they took his nugget about BB earning too much for what he does/hasn’t yet done. And Suddenly, he’s the messiah.
Their (TWG] FB page actually asked: If Clive Palmer was to form a break away rebel league, would you be happy for your team to be in it?
Never thought I would ever stick up for BB, but better the devil you know than that fat fool running our game. He stuck into Buckley for being a non-football person and in his comments regarding the Olyroos and international players showed a complete disregard for he culture of the game. I thought he was way off the mark with his justification of only having ‘junior’ players, BS it was about not wanting to engage player agents. It was pure and simple a cost cutting measure. We bollock Buckley for failing to answer questions, but he must feel like a Liberal politician appearing on the A(LP) BC when he agrees to head to SBS, he turned up and he put in a good performance I thought and actually answered the questions put to him regarding learning lessons from expansion and appeared to accept some if not all of the blame for NQ Fury and how it ended up. Palmer is not the answer.
His entry into football in this country has done way more harm for he image of the game than good. How anybody could think he’d be a good head of the game here is absolutely beyond me. GCU will be around for likely another 2-3 years, if only to stick it to Buckley.
February 22nd 2012 @ 1:29pm
Nathan of Perth said | February 22nd 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Good comments.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:33am
Philipcoates said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:33am | Report comment
Johnno let’s disect your ‘great points Palmer raised:’
- The unequal cost of FFA licence, he payed little for his where has Nathan Tinkler paid more for his … Clive bought a new club licence, Tinker bought an existing club. There is a huge difference. If an investor wanted to buy Melb Victory or Melb Heart do you think they would pay the same amount? Of course not.
- He didn’t bring up the cost to rent skilled park but should off in relation when asked about the crowd issues … no he didn’t bring it up because he would look foolish. He knew he rent before he signed the agreement.
-he i think talked about some sort of state of origin series or more help for the state league i don’t know … there is no evidence that a state of origin is wanted, needed or would benefit the clubs. Does Clive have some research supporting the idea? If so where is it?
- he talked about the $4million losses on average for each club … but he didn’t explain why his own club is loosing money. It’s not all FFA fault. How is the reality of ownership different to his original plans? What can his club do differently to generate better returns? We want answers from Clive and not questions. We already know the questions.
-he talked about more open communication and more freedom to discuss issues and less if you like the secrecy or using the phrase “cloak and dagger” manner keeping things quiet and secret so to speak … there is nothing stopping Clive calling a meeting with fellow directors and discussing issues in a closed or open forum. Why doesn’t he? And how can he talk about ‘open communication’ when he refuses to talk to Ben Buckley. Absolute hypocrite.
-he spoke about the olyroos which i agreed with and not right selections … everyone understood the decision to limit selection to 3 players per club and most thought is was a reasonable idea. I’ll bet Clive would have been the first to complain if he lost 5 or 6 players from his squad which was quite possible.
-only thing i didn’t agree with Clive was about foreign coaches … yes, another stupid rant
His great points were not that great.
What is Clive doing to make football work on the gold coast? That is the only question that should be put to Clive and it’s the one he refuses to answer.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:46am
Johnno said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
Maybe he is intimidated by Ben Buckley. Ben buckley was a former AFL player so is probably a tough guy, and tough negotiator who knows Phillipcoates, or maybe he feels Ben Buckley has apology of no communication allowed i don’t know, but isn’t there some media ban in the A-league i don’t know it all seems strange the type of closed communication and non speaking terms. I just cant imaging that julia gillard and kevin rude for example would not speak to each other all the time even, they would have to if 1 is PM and the other foreign minister, but maybe not this week but still. And if the FFA and Frank low and ben buckley are so anti clive palmer why on earth did they give the man a ffa club licence.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:19am
Roarfan said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:19am | Report comment
I agree with you wholeheartedly Philipcoates. He just ranted and raved and did not answer the questions put to him, instead going of on a tangent and at times answering with a question.
The practice of FFA bashing seemed to have diminished quite significantly lately, but Clive has stirred it all up again.
Your remark about the difference in Licence Fees is particularly relevant. Clive bought a licence, but Tinkler bought a going concern with assets including players etc. If Clive is so smart, he should have realized that. Unfortunately he has misled many posters on these forums who swallowed that rubbish hook, line & sinker.
I wish that I had a transcript of that interview, because I could silence him on many of his accusations and set the record straight. In many instances the answer would be similar though. Put up or shut up!
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:16pm
pete4 said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
Philipcoates – I agree not one question was actually asked of Clive of what he’s actually doing to make GCU work on the Gold Coast?? Not one. You could also see Craig Foster was more interested in chasing Ben Buckley
February 22nd 2012 @ 6:06am
Soccerbot3000 said | February 22nd 2012 @ 6:06am | Report comment
If saying he doesn’t like the sport, accusing its administrators of corruption, alienating most of the potential supporters in his club’s catchment area and generally acting like a giant douche isn’t enough to warrant being thrown out of the league I’m genuinely interested to hear from soccer supporters what they would consider to be sufficient grounds.
Seriously, what would it take? Openly putting a contract on Ben Buckley’s head, or perhaps running an ad campaign saying “Don’t come and watch my team, you’ll have a better time at the Suns or Titans?”
February 22nd 2012 @ 1:36pm
Nathan of Perth said | February 22nd 2012 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
“Openly putting a contract on Ben Buckley’s head” Well, there are probably many things less extreme that would do the trick but yes, for argument’s sake, Clive Palmer putting out a hit on Ben Buckley would definitely prompt a series of heated discussions and possibly see Palmer have his A-League license revoked by the FFA.
February 22nd 2012 @ 11:23pm
Soccerbot3000 said | February 22nd 2012 @ 11:23pm | Report comment
I’m not so sure Nathan. I can imagine Palmer claiming that the statement that “I have paid Zoltan the hitman from Kiev $500,000 to execute Ben Buckley” was taken out of context, and that he was really referring to the way in which Eastern European referees have traditionally been harsh to the socceroos.
I can then imagine lots of soccer fans coming out and saying that Palmer does make some valid points, that Zoltan is after all a very good hitman with a track record of doing some good work for the Russian mafia, and that we shouldn’t rush to judgment. Maybe give it a while and see what happens when the survivors from the car bomb at FFA HQ recover enough to put together next season’s marketing plan.
Message to the moderators and Clive Palmer: The above is intended to be satire. I am not advocating the assassination of sporting officials, nor inferring that Clive Palmer has any connections with either the Russian mafia or hitmen from Kiev. Or indeed hitmen from any other part of Eastern Europe. Thank you.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:08am
Philipcoates said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:08am | Report comment
Clive doesn’t even know what his club scarf looks like. Why was he wearing a world cup bid scarf pretending to be a football supporter. Couldnt his minders find a CCU scarf? Total lack of credibility.
Clive should be telling us why his club is loosing money, how has the reality of club ownership differed from the plans that he would have had in place, why can’t they attract more than 2000 people to a game, why don’t most of his players have contracts? These are the things that should be occupying Clive’s time and efforts. When he can resolve and answer questions about his own club then he can start to question what other people are doing.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:28am
JAJI said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Well it comes as no surprise you are defending Clive Palmer in yet another of your FFA and A League bashing exercises. You still carry a very big chip on your shoulder. I watched both interviews and thought Ben Buckley did very well with Craig Foster afterwards unlike the Fat Mining Man. You also havent mentioned how Clive Palmer one minute is whinging about losing $18 million then five minutes later quipped “I have deals worth $20 Billion its nothing to me”. You havent talked about his clueless treatment of the community in the Gold Coast, his disasterous crowd cappping plans, closing 3 stands down etc. You havent talked about how he has signed all players on one year contracts. You havent spoken about his stupidity in sacking Miron Bleiberg all of a sudden. You havent mentioned how he is also suing the hyatt coolum and how he is boasting he is 68-0 in legal cases at present
Finally you havent mentioned and never will how the Gold Coast has been the only one disappointment in a great season where crowds, ratings and performances are all up. Yes some of the owners are unhappy but to defend this fool shows you havent moved on from your Jess Fink obsession
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:51am
amazonfan said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
I don’t think it is quite accurate to say that Pakmer sacked Bleiberg. He drove him to quit, but in no way should Palmer be given the satisfaction of thinking that he fired him (whether Bleiberg had handed in a resignation letter or not, he had no intention of returning).
As for the 68-0 case boast, if he had any decency whatsoever he would be embarassed about going to court that often.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:35am
The Cattery said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:35am | Report comment
The response to this whole affair is quite intriguing.
Davidde says that Clive Palmer came to play, but that Ben Buckley didn’t, which is a curious take on both SBS interviews from the other night.
Only last night Fozz tweeted that every point made by Palmer was valid. Really??? How could a serious commentator on the game come to that sort of conclusion? We only noted how he was willing to play the big toughie interviewing BB, but was very meek and accepting of Palmer’s incoherent ramblings.
A few Roar correspondents are very willing to go in to bat for Palmer, despite everything that he, and only he, has been responsible for.
In the meantime, it’s starting to become clear that a posse of owners (but not all) are starting to put together a coalition willing to fight the FFA in the courts, with full control of the A-League being the obvious end game for them.
And serious commentators see that eventuality as a good thing?
The separation of the league from the FFA is a worthy long term goal. It was one of Crawford’s recommendations although Smith concluded the sport wasn’t quite ready for it right now.
But to have half of the owners bring it about by taking the FFA on in the courts, along with CP’s unorthodox tactics of basically running his club into the ground and embarassing the governing body in any way he can, hardly seems an appropriate way to go about it.
But some actually support that approach? Extraordinary.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:39am
Johnno said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
the cattery do you really think he is deliberately sabotaging gold coast united. It is not his fault stadium rents at skilled are high. i don’t think he is doing what some banks do and deliberately make currencies bankrupt, so they can trade on the inflation, why would he waste his time destroying a club, he has enough cash. And frank low is a big businessman too if he was smart he would publicly of said something by now Frank is rich and know business dirty tricks, he is a big bussnessman richer than Clive and Nathan.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:56am
Chris said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:56am | Report comment
Johnno it might not be his fault the stadium rent is what it is, but he should have done his research BEFORE signing the contract to find out whether the whole thing was economically viable or not. Whinging about it afterwards just makes you like amateurish.
The other thing that is clear is just how difficult running a professional sports club is. There are very few teams anywhere in the world that actually make a consistent profit. Just because you know how to run a mining business doesn’t mean you’re going to be able to make a profit out of a football club. Many have tried, very few have succeeded.
Mouthing off publicly against the A-League was unhelpful at best, and downright objectionable at worst. Just maybe both sides could do better, but in my experience you get much more done if people can come together and talk things through rationally rather than trading insults through the media.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:55am
Philipcoates said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Good comments.
Clive should not have been given airspace to vent unless SBS had the nous and willingness to challenge him on his overblown and unsubstantiated claims.
Fozz is a disgrace if he said all of Clive’s comments were valid.
He was sprouting about his support of youth and Brown being left out of the Olyroos … then why hasn’t he given contracts to most of his players before now? Brown has just signed with Jets because GCU wouldn’t give him a contract.
He was sprouting about backhanders at FFA and illegal agents commissions … which agents Clive? Name names or shut up. Or are you afraid of loosing your 68-0 litigation record?
Questioning the nationality of the national coach … why didnt Foz tell him that no Australian is currently good enough and Holger is a quality choice?
He kept saying its not the money, I have plenty, FFA have none … then he said he wanted FFA to share the losses next year … no one questioned this illogical comment
He said ‘I don’t even like the game’ then tried to backtrack and say he meant the administration … this is clearly not what he meant … why no challenge to his comment, instead just acceptance of his backtrack
He was asked what plans he originally had in place for starting the club and community engagement … he didn’t answer and Foz didn’t pursue the matter. Why not Foz?
He wasn’t asked why he thinks he is better qualified than the team manager (Miron) to decide who should be captain?
He wasn’t asked how it was that it was his decision to go with a youth team policy this year and last week he blames Miron for a piss poor performance and achieving nothing.
The interview was appaling and Foz’s hatred of Buckly and the FFA seem second only to Clive himself.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:38am
The Cattery said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
This was Fozz’s exact tweet word for word:
All of the issues raised by Clive Palmer last night re governance, accountability, management salaries etc are valid & need investigation
February 22nd 2012 @ 10:43am
Australian Rules said | February 22nd 2012 @ 10:43am | Report comment
Foster’s a muppet and has lost more credibility in all this.
Palmer’s ramblings were designed to distract, nothing more. The scarf said it all. He didn’t explain his decisions and statements that have hurt the club and the League (to any satisfactory degree). Instead he opted to throw spears at the FFA to shift the focus of the discussion.
And it worked. The conversation has gone from “What to do with Palmer & GCU?” to “What’s going on at the FFA?”
February 22nd 2012 @ 11:55am
Michael said | February 22nd 2012 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Palmer came across as a dishonest person.
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:03pm
Kasey said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Not so much dishonest as totally self interested. He never answered one question put to him by the panel, instead he deflected (by dropping bombs of indeterminable truth) or answered by posing another question. He knew what he was doing and he playued the SBS team like a violin. As stated elsewhere, now we’re not talking about how much of an arse CP is for disrespecting football (and what a terrible indictment on our game his club is with its pathetic crowds and alienation of fans on the Gold Coast), but about what FFA is doing right or wrong. Job done fat man. Does anybbody even know what Buckley makes in salary? Are we all just going to take Clive’s word that it is $5mil?
February 22nd 2012 @ 1:35pm
JAJI said | February 22nd 2012 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
The fact Foster said nothing about Clive Palmer who said “I didnt even like the game – Rugby League is much better” is an absolute disgrace
You see that is the problem with the football media – so much infighting and so many agendas
Could you imagine if the NRL had a club owner who came out and said “I prefer AFL much more and dont even like the NRL” that NRL journos would sit there and defend that individual? Its a disgrace…..
The fact Foster said nothing whilst Palmer sat there talking “agents and secret deals” which are part and parcel of Global Football, and said nothing when Palmer wants a State of Origin and an Australian running the Socceroos is also a disgrace….
Cockerill hates Kewell. Slater hates Foster. Ray Gatt hates FFA. Foster hates Buckley. Jesse Fink hates everybody apart from Nicky Carle. Davidde hates everything about football post 2004. So sick of the infighting….
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:44pm
Griffo said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
In the meantime, it’s starting to become clear that a posse of owners (but not all) are starting to put together a coalition willing to fight the FFA in the courts, with full control of the A-League being the obvious end game for them.
This seems the obvious route for the group. Perhaps they are thinking of profits that the EPL makes?
The question then is what role does the FFA have long term in regards to A-League and football in general? While the FFA’s focus seems to be to grow and improve the game of football, I don’t think Palmer’s Posse would have that in mind running the A-League.
Having a successful, money spinning A-League would be great, but not at the expense of creating factions in the game. Someone has to administer the game, have it’s interests at heart. I don’t get that sense from Palmer (as evidenced by GCU). The checks and balances in decision making between a future FFA and an A-League ‘Board of Control’ will be cruicial.
As the Smith Report indicated, the game (and FFA) is not ready yet. The owners are ready (or wanting) more say. What is the middle ground?
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:52pm
Kasey said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
The middle ground is perhaps to invite a clubs representative or 2 into the inner sanctum of the FFA to represent the owners interests indecision making. Could be an olive branch of sorts without blowing up the whole system and causing it to fracture before the HAL is ready to stand on its own 2 feet.
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:54pm
The Cattery said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
There clearly is a better middle ground, I don’t think anyone would dispute that, and a better separation between league and FFA needs to be sorted out at some point – but whether these blokes will achieve that in the manner that they are doing it is certainly open to debate, and as Roarchild has suggested a few times, you’d have to be genuinely worried about someone like CP controlling the league. Sure, he can afford to do it, but that alone would not be the sole criterion.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:52am
Titus said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
The $7 million dollar license fee baffles me(if that was the amount), at a time when Jets and Pheonix fans were probably just hoping someone would step in and save their club, despite knowing they would likely lose money in the short term, it turns out the FFA were still looking for a big license fee as well and if they couldn’t get it they possibly would have let the clubs go.Is this why NQ Fury couldn’t find a new backer?
I don’t think Clive is very eleqount, honest or intelligent(or knows a great deal about football), but I do think he raises some genuine issues. I think it has been fruitful and I think with a bit of co-operation and Clives vast resources, the GCU moving to their own boutique stadium could become a model for many clubs to follow.
I think it was right to start asking questions of the FFA but I think we also need to remember that the FFA runs many, many national leagues,and many development programs as well as the A-league. It is also the national team, at this point, that generates the bulk of the revenue that goes back into supporting the a-league.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:16am
Pete #205 said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
The $7 million fee was hyperbole. Archie Fraser said in an interview on SEN that it was more likely to be $4 million. In any case, I can’t see why people can’t make the distinction. One bought a plot of land, one bought a plot of land with a house on it.
February 22nd 2012 @ 11:31am
Titus said | February 22nd 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
But no club makes money and no club is likely to until the a-league, and the FFA, starts generating significant income. You are basically asking people to spend $4 million so they can lose $2 million a year, where you should be, if they can show they have the capital and a business plan, thanking them for taking over the club and its losses.
Am I wrong?
February 22nd 2012 @ 11:45am
The Cattery said | February 22nd 2012 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Titus
I agree with you that it seems far fetched that you charge someone a hefty license fee for the luxury of losing lots of money – but on the flip side, it should be mentioned that the Victory managed profits in years 3 and 4 (after which they became the first A-League club, maybe the only one to date, to pay a transfer fee for a player), and I think CCM even managed a small profit in one or two seasons, or at least broke even.
February 22nd 2012 @ 7:12pm
Pete #205 said | February 22nd 2012 @ 7:12pm | Report comment
Not wrong, but as the Cat says, there is the potential to make some money if things are run properly. If you want to buy an established business, with existing customers, goodwill and with current stock at hand (the players in this case), then you’ll end up paying for it. But yes, there is a massive leap of faith required by people buying clubs.
February 22nd 2012 @ 8:58am
SportsFanMelb said | February 22nd 2012 @ 8:58am | Report comment
The FFA should put an ultimatium to Clive Palmer in the following manner:
1. You can continue to plow your money into the club for the next two years knowing that we (FFA) will not be renewing your license under any circumstance when that period expires; OR
2. You can hand it in at the conclusion of this season rather than dragging the process through the courts and stringing GC along for a further two years.
He may be spiteful and take the two years, but maybe he will not, he is already whinging about plowing $18m to date into the club.
This may not be entirely ideal considering the league would drop to 9 teams and only 4 games a week for the 2012/2013 season, but it does two things:
1. it will pull Palmer into line as he then knows than he can sink another $12m (going on the $6m per season) into the club for the next two years knowing that absolutely nothing will come from it and it is wasted money; and
2. It gives another consortium (Canberra, West Sydney, Wollongong whoever) either a 12 month or 2 year lead in time to secure finance, community involvement, a squad of players and coaching team.
At the moment the GC community have shown, and continue to show that they are not interested in supporting this club. If/when GCU fold it may be a case of short term pain for long term gain, nothing stopping a future franchise setting up shop there, even though it may only happen in about 10 years time.
The aim for the A-League in the short to medium term, by 2020 to 2025 should be to have 12-14 stable teams competing week in week out and not be at the whim of people like Palmer.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:08am
jamesb said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
spot on SportsFanMelb
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:44am
The Cattery said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:44am | Report comment
This is why CP has the smirk, for the moment he is holding a lot of aces.
If the FFA give him that ultimatum, he has a few options, all of which are likely to cause huge embarassment to the FFA and be a major distraction:
1. pull out now before the season end – causing chaos, he wouldn’t care about the financial implications, and anyway, he would fight that in the court for years to come
2. fulfill the final two years with the youth team, and do whatever else he can over those two years to bring the comp into disrepute
3. go to the courts anyway
February 22nd 2012 @ 10:07am
SportsFanMelb said | February 22nd 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Cat,
It is a very awkward situation the league finds itself in. What I am trying to adovcate is that there will be issues while Palmer is still involved and the game is going to take black eyes from this guy regardless.
Short term not much can be done, he seems intent on being a prick to the FFA and is probably going to rubbish them at every opportunity and SBS will probably continue to air him from time to time so he can give us “an insight”.
The first play is to say – We are absolutely NOT going to renew your license in 2 years time under any circumstance, let the public know this is the case and leave the ball in Palmers court. Even fewer people will turn up to GCU whcih will increase the financial burden on him (he probably wont notice this aspect in anycase, he did mention he has a lot of money).
As you say he could pull out, but I am pretty sure that he can’t take them to court for not renewing his license.
As I said before short term pain for long term gain. In 10 years time he will just be a small story that in the past try to railroad the A-League and did not succeed and also is solely to blame for why the GC does not have a team in an expanded competition. In saying this there is nothing stopping a new consortium coming in to the GC and starting a community based club in the future and distancing itself from anything related to GCU.
I see this as the only way to remove him from the game, if he wants to try and set up a break away league go for it – he will burn $60 million a year for absolutely no return and will eventually realise it takes more than ego to run a sports competition.
February 22nd 2012 @ 11:56am
Michael said | February 22nd 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
+1
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:46pm
apaway said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Excellent, SportsFanMelb, but I’d add another caveat to Clive Palmer:
You can keep your license for the next two seasons and if you devise a strategy to engage with the general public and pull an average home crowd of 10,000 over those next two seasons, then we’ll renew your license and listen to your successful methods for attracting fans to the game.
February 22nd 2012 @ 1:00pm
Griffo said | February 22nd 2012 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
Good points SportsFanMelb.
If the FFA knows that Palmer is likely to cling on to the remaining two years of the licence, then the FFA could use Palmer to test case a club in a smaller stadium. Palmer wants to sink $250k into a small stadium. Let him with conditions.
Palmer and the Gold Coast has two years to see if this turns around the clubs crowds and fortunes off the park. The moral of the story for Palmer is that it will take more than upgrading a stadium to attract a crowd, to have a succesful club no matter the bottom line.
If he doesn’t get this, then at the end of the two years he will have a nice little stadium to present to the community, fond memories of a club, and disrupted fans and players. The FFA will have one less thorn in their collective behinds.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:11am
Johnno said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Wel this raises another question. Just who in Australia in these uncertain economic times has the money to buy football clubs in the A-league. Im amazed wages have not gone down in europe moor ein the football clubs as a result of the economic crisis. Many clubs are losing money in europe that is for sure. Boutique stadiums are amuse like the MLS.
But the FFA have to deal with people like Palmer i like him, but who else has th money the than the Tinklers, or clive Palmers of this world. Community run clubs like barcelona don’t work in Australia we don’t have the fan base yet. We need private investment and Franl Lowy knows that.
What has not been brought up yet is a succession plan for Frnak Lowy the real heartbeat of the FFA. He got Guss Hiddink here, i don’t know but someone told me he contributed to Hiddink’s wages out of his own money im not sure if that is true but that is what i heard.
But Frank lowy was born in 1930 he will be 82 this year, there has to be some sort of succession plan too.
i think rightly or wrongly what CLive Palmer has done is exposed massive vulnrebilites in Australian football landscape, and massive change and a complete overall will happen over the off season, tv right issues, tv deals which may want more than 8 clubs, but Clive Palmer has simply lit the fuse for a massive showdown between owners, the FFA, fans as well.
Who knows there may be a breakaway competition , and FIFA may approve of it you never know, i wonder how the AFC as well are feeling towards the FFA and the A-league about these $4 million dollar club losses. Sponsors of the A-league would be getting nervous too. We are a long way away from a 2nd division thats for sure.
Its the A-league on life support, maybe not yet but it is defiantly in my opinion in a critical condition in intensive care, and has to make some serious business model changes, to be successful . The off season is going to have some serious boardroom chats with everyone concerned. Fox, FFA, and A-league club owners, maybe the AFC will also attend who knows.
But i don’t think the AFC will kick Australia out of the Asia if the A-league is reduced in it’s funding of players.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:31am
futbanous said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:31am | Report comment
“but who else has th money the than the Tinklers, or clive Palmers of this world. ”
Well the Bakrie family who bankroll the Roar for starters. Football club financing now were in Asia is not only limited to this country,plenty of rich Asian individuals & groups who have football backgrounds.
Clives not the only person who has strong reasons to invest in an A-League club because it may create business contacts in Asia by participation in the Asian Champions League. In a continent of 3.6 billion Clives are ten a penny & Tinklers small change.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:45am
The Cattery said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Plenty more Australian miners are rolling in the money at the moment!
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:18am
futbanous said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
No doubt long term that the A-League needs to be its own man. Just too many fingers in too many pies for the FFA as mentioned by Titus, to devote 100% of its energy into the A-League. To be a viable powerful league it needs 100% concentration. The conditions currently & by that I mean its ability to generate substantial financial support independently of the other arms of the FFA(particularly Socceroos) aren’t there yet.
Personally I believe Frank Lowy is furiously working behind the scenes to find a substitute for the Clive Ego circus.
Further to the Paul Lederer story yesterday, is another rich Sydney person being courted by Frank with a football background Anton Tagliaferro.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/millionaire-anton-tagliaferro-lured-for-west-sydney-side-as-ffa-look-to-fast-track-new-franchise/story-e6frf4gl-1226276662205
Make no mistake this is a battle of wills. Mr Litigation boasting a 68-0 record & a wily old Fox working behind the scenes.
February 22nd 2012 @ 9:21am
Midfielder said | February 22nd 2012 @ 9:21am | Report comment
What ever anyone may think of CP he has not broken any rule that would allow FFA to take his lience…
On any number of fronts CP was simply wrong…. when he complained about the existing TV deal….. everyone knows it was signed off by JON for 7 years… yet SBS let this and many other comment by CP go bye witout any comment ….. Imagine if BB had made the same incorrect statement would the SBS pannel have gone after him…
SBS football adgendas have always been out there…. the dislike of BB by SBS is well known…. I also think FFA & BB have made many mistakes … I actually agree that on the expansion issue mistakes have been made….
But when you allow obovious incorrect statements by an owner truing to justify why he did things and never question his reasons and challenge these statements as you would challenge FFA and BB in particular then I believe SBS are doing what they have always done in that they use every single thing available to them to get at what they don’t like…
IMO most of what CP said was a rant with some valid points about FFA releasing control… however never was CP pushed about his running of the club… and was allowed to say we pay our bills as being the GC was a well run club…
How was what the RL CEO gets even part of the discussion…
Most of all I find SBS to be using something / anything to push what they want which is the removal of BB… like the LM book that went wrong say and allow anything as long as its on message of what our adgenda is ….
IMO SBS failed the test of being the honest broker they wish to present themselves to be…
Further Fozzie to me proved himself to be a pussy cat when he came up against someone who would yell back… but also he was yelling what would help the SBS adgenda however Fozzie IMO a total failure on the night…
February 22nd 2012 @ 12:21pm
jmac said | February 22nd 2012 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
the panel did their best. you would’ve needed kerry o’brien if you wanted to get:
a) palmer to actually answer the questions put to him
b) buckley to say anything at all that wasn’t meaningless corporate speak or non-comittal answer-padding (as per his usual form)