Cooper Cronk is Brett McKay's only NRL cross code pick (AAP Image/Action Photographics, Brett Crockford)
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Despite that outrageous slur on my person regarding The Voice a few weeks ago, Expert column colleague Ryan O’Connell and I still regularly discuss our respective codes on and outside of Roar threads, be it on email, Twitter, or whatever.
For something different this week, we’ve decided to ‘grill’ each other with five pointed questions about our games.
To make it interesting, I didn’t get Ryano’s questions until a few hours before my usual deadline last night. So these answers are what came instantly to mind, meaning there was little time to dodge the questions, or do any research. And the clock was ticking as I put these together too – editors wait for no-one.
Ryan O’Connell: Does Australian Rugby currently have the depth to support five Super teams?
Had you put this question to me last year, or even March or April this year when the injury toll nationally was horrendous, I’d have argued that no, we don’t.
However, the re-emergence of the Rebels in the last month, and the Brumbies maintaining their standards with a third choice flyhalf, shows me that Australian rugby is starting to produce the quantity of players required.
Queensland didn’t have to forfeit any games due to injuries; the Force found some useful players in the club ranks, and the Rebels were able to snare a prop from the Brumbies. Zack Holmes is a Western Australian product of the Force academy that the Brumbies picked up while playing for North Sydney. The players are coming through.
But I reckon we’re at the limit currently. A sixth team is a good way off yet, and while the expansionists have good motives for their arguments, this is one crucial oversight on their behalf. Five teams will provide good numbers and opportunities for the next few years, but six is just too much too soon.
Ryan: It doesn’t seem to matter who the coach is, or who the players are, the Waratahs remain a constant disappointment. Is it simply a case of unfair expectations, or is something fundamentally wrong with NSW Rugby?
I think it might be a bit of both. Every year the Waratahs – or supporters, or the rugby media, for that matter – talk about this year being “the year”, but “the year” seems to be getting further away than ever.
The old Wayne Bennett line applies here: “If you always do what you’ve always done, you always get what you’ve always got.” To do the same thing every year and expect a different result is either the height of optimism, or the very definition of stupidity.
There’s no doubt something needs to change. Jake White’s overhaul at Brumbies HQ is often cited as a good example of what’s needed, but maybe it’s simpler than that. Whatever it is, it must be recognised that the Waratahs operate in the toughest football market in Australia. Therefore, expectations have to be managed better, as well.
A Roarer made the comment the other day (and my apologies for not remembering who it was) that “forwards win matches, but backs spin the turnstiles” and that’s probably the place to start. The Waratahs firstly have to make their fans want to come to the rugby. Their finances are actually pretty good, but their product needs a lot of improvement.
Ryan: Who’s been the best player from each nation in the Super Rugby tournament so far?
Good question. Every comment that follows today will have a different opinion on this, so here are the three standouts for me.
In South Africa, there’s been a heap of quality players, and upcoming players that have stood up at different points (Goosen, Stander, Lambie to name a couple), but the one guy who’s really excited me is Stormers fullback, Joe Pietersen. The Stormers play a pretty conservative, defensive game, but if ever there’s a chance to counter-attack, Pietersen is among the best going. YouTube “joe pietersen highlanders try” and you’ll see what I mean.
In New Zealand, as good as Kieran Read has been for the Crusaders, as good as young Beauden Barrett’s been for the Hurricanes, Chiefs flyhalf Aaron Cruden is my pick.
Everything that’s been good about the Chiefs in 2012 – and they’ve been excellent – has come on the back of Cruden’s vision in steering the Chiefs around. Notable mentions go their very useful scrum, scrumhalf Tawera Kerr-Barlow (‘TKB’ as he gets abbreviated in commentary), and inside centre Sonny Bill Williams, but Cruden has taken his game to new levels in 2012.
In Australia, a month ago it would’ve been Christian Lealiifano; the month since then it’s probably been Kurtley Beale. Overall, I think Scott Higginbotham has been most consistent player.
It’s funny, when he’s played on the blindside, Higginbotham’s penchant for staying out wide didn’t endear him to me. Since switching to no.8 this year, however, he’s tightened up how and where he plays, and has really become a forwards leader for the Reds. He should be the first-choice Wallaby no.8 all throughout the international season, and he’ll be a massive pickup for the Rebels next season.
Ryan: If Robbie Deans is unlikely to be re-appointed as Wallabies coach, should he just be punted now?
See, I don’t get why people think it’s unlikely Deans will be reappointed for 2014 and beyond. Lordy told us over the weekend “it’s a given” that Deans would return to NZ, and that “the replacement hunt has begun”.
I’m sorry, but that’s just plainly untrue. Deans is contracted until the end of the 2013, and has two Bledisloes, two Rugby Championships, and a Lions Tour to steer the Wallabies toward before then. The current situation is that no decision will be made until the completion of those series. Success in any, and especially the Bledisloe, will go a long way toward Deans being extended through to the 2015 Rugby World Cup.
Had Deans said (or indeed, if he says) that he won’t be seeking extension, then sure, perhaps it is better to move him on sooner. But for the next 18 months, he’s the best man for the job. More silverware in that time only increases the likelihood of him staying.
Ryan: If you could poach one rugby league player to play rugby union, who would it be and why?
Prepare to be surprised. You can keep your Inglises, your Slaters, your Thurstons, your Cameron Smiths, and even what used to be your Israel Folaus. I have no interest in a Dugan, a Carney, a Beau Scott, or even a Matt Gillett (actually, I might have some interest in Matt Gillett.)
The only, repeat, ONLY current NRL player I would poach is Cooper Cronk.
And if given the keys to the ARU chequebook, I would just keep writing zeros until he said ‘yes’.
As good as all those aforementioned might be currently, Cronk is the only player I’ve seen who I could drop into a rugby side with no major remedial action required. This is obviously aided by Cronk’s rugby background; he was in the same 2000 Australian Schoolboys sides as Rocky Elsom, Mark Gerrard, and Peter Hynes, among others.
His vision, kicking and passing game, and rock-solid defence is precisely what you want in a modern-day flyhalf, and if he switched codes today, I’d play him against Scotland next week without hesitation. He’s the one that got away that annoys me the most.
Anyway, this has been a really interesting and really enjoyable exercise with the quick turnaround and I look forward to seeing how Ryano handles my questioning of his code tomorrow!
Brett McKay is a former non-tackling scrumhalf and not-quite-1st Grade middle order stalwart. A rugby and cricket expert for The Roar since July 2009 (having joined in Sept 2008), Brett has written for Inside Rugby and Cricket Australia, and is also PLAY Canberra's rugby correspondent. He tweets from @BMcSport
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May 29th 2012 @ 4:03am
Johnno said | May 29th 2012 @ 4:03am | Report comment
-Depth is fine just look at the aussie talent overseas, eg Craig Wing,Burgess, Gitau, Hugh mcmenniman, luke rooney, craig gower , steal a few more leagues like jarred saffy types who had a rugby background south afircan born and st josephs sydney, or a anthony watmough, plus all the rugby league backs. And walla you have a a 6th team.
Plus those players like Nevill who . Who is now a wallaby . Ive watched the shut shield this year and it has impressed me heaps especially Mnaly vs Warringah game. plenty of depth jthes eblokes just need start and full time training. Think like blokes like Elvis got a start at the tahs now at the force.
But yes bring back some of the ex pat aussies playing rugby, and some leaguies. Be flexible on pacific islanders too.
NZ has a rule if a NZ player can not be found to be up to super 15 standard , the super team can get a pacific islander and not count him as an import. eg Cheifs Samoan hooker Mo, and the tongan prop at the chiefs. And also Samoan Tusi pusi at the wellington hurricanes.
Allow more imports as it inceases interest in rugby and grass roots rugby which will ultimately lead to more playing numbers of aussies playing rugby. And have an Argentina rule too allowing argues in super rugby.
Greg inglis or thruston.
And privatise the super rugby franchises.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:51am
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Morning everyone, some great comments already. Johnno, you’ve not let me down bursting straight into the expansion mode. All I’ll say is the fact you’re relying on “plus all the rugby league backs” for a sixth team just proves my point that we’re at the limit of rugby numbers currently. Australia needs to consolidate for the time being..
May 29th 2012 @ 12:51pm
Justin2 said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Just to be picky Johnno but Neville isnt a Wallaby at all. He is in a training squad for now
May 29th 2012 @ 4:24am
Shungmao said | May 29th 2012 @ 4:24am | Report comment
Brett,
Like the article, my thoughts on the questions:
1. Would love Australia to have 6 franchises but the lack of quality local talent across all positions in my concern. Add in salary cap and limited number of foreign plays allowed in our comp we might see more quality players leaving our shores in the nex 24 mths than our ability to produce quality replacements. All is not doom and gloom but it is challenging .
2. Tahs for me are a concern, and as a reds fan I say this with a Wallabies cap on. A strong tahs is good for Aussie rugby and good for talent pool development. My thoughts are this, like in business “the fish rots at the head” even if the administration isn’t as bad as what is being said there is too much noise in the system so changes need to happen. It wouldn’t hurt the tahs to really focus on coaches coaching, players playing and administrators administering it seems like everyone has fingers in each others pies and as a consequence the left hand can’t talk to the right.
3. Standout super rugby players for me: Adam Thompson ( NZ), Gill ( Aus) , Hougard (SA)
4. Deans is the man for the moment, he’s got my support!
5. The current gap for Aus that needs to be filled is centre, I would take Inglis tomorrow, with his strength, size, speed and ball skills he would dominate. The likes of Ioane would see more space and opportunities than ever before and Beale would have a field day!
May 29th 2012 @ 9:01am
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:01am | Report comment
cheers Shung, it was a most enjoyable exercise, and Ryano put up some testing questions too..
Your replies for Q1 and Q4 we’re already in agreement, so nothing further. Q3 was/is also going to be subjective, and as I predicted, there’s already a handful of other NRL names nominated already for Q5.
This just leaves Q2, the ‘Tahs: I absolutely agree that Australian Rugby needs a strong Waratahs, and something just has to change if there’s be any kind of turnaround. I do agree with comments that the ‘Tahs get a lot of undue stick in these forums, and as I mentioned above, their finances are surprisingly good, condiering the contant message that on-field performance = off-field dollars.
I guess they need to take that crucial first step themselves, and actually admit they have a problem..
May 29th 2012 @ 1:41pm
Ryan O'Connell said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
I think I let you off lightly, Brett
May 30th 2012 @ 11:22pm
Ceebow said | May 30th 2012 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
u sure did
May 29th 2012 @ 3:18pm
Go_the_Wannabe's said | May 29th 2012 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
A fish rots evenly all over. Tah’s need a clean out from top to bottom, but the old school ties will never allow that.
Look forward to more rotting.
May 29th 2012 @ 5:13am
google said | May 29th 2012 @ 5:13am | Report comment
the entire Super rugby would improve if A. teams are allowed to recruit 5 overseas players per matchday 22 (especially Australia), if the teams are competitive then there will be more interest in the game overall and B. Bring back all the expatriots, can you imagine how strong the super 15 could be if all the expats are back? heck the NPC alone would be better quality than current super rugby.
NRL is lucky as it is the main comp, Super rugby is suffering as a result of poaching by French, Japanese and british teams (not to mention the junior ranks being raped by the NRL already)
May 29th 2012 @ 9:02am
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
Google, if it was a simple as just bringing back all the expats, don’t you think that would’ve happened already??
May 29th 2012 @ 10:22am
Manoa said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:22am | Report comment
Unfortunately Brett, with the current administration I don’t think it will ever happen. Do they want to make it happen?
May 29th 2012 @ 12:48pm
formeropenside said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
they cant afford to make it happen
May 29th 2012 @ 1:45pm
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Manoa, again, even if they did want to make it happen, and even if they had the finances to do it (as FOS correctly points out), the players themselves have to WANT to come home.
Think of the likes of Brock James and Scott Daruda, and however many others left in the mid-20s, and are still going around in Europe and Japan. If these guys genuinely wanted to come home, they would have when the Force came in or when the Rebels came in. Ultimately, they decided to stay put, and it would be for a multitude of reasons other than just financial..
May 29th 2012 @ 9:26am
Old Rugby Boy said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:26am | Report comment
I dont think the junior ranks are being raped by the NRL. The NY Rugby League comp is drawing its players from junior RL sources in Aus, NZ , PNG and to other Pacific nations. How many men from a RU background are playing in the NRL? 4 or 5 at the most and they probably changed codes as a result of the current stultifying and arrogant RU management. In nearly 70 years of playing and watching the game, I have never seen a code with such a bad case of ostrich syndrome. The loss in the junior ranks is in the traditional RU areas to AFL. Look at Knox, Riverview and a host of the newer Christian schools, all with growing AFL teams. Stop sniping at the NRL and start looking at the real threat to RU, AFL.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:49am
Greg said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
The current nrl players who were Australian Schoolboy or state Schoolboy reps or part of super rugby academies
Will Chambers
Cooper Cronk
Tyson Frizzell
Martin Kennedy
Lama Tasi
J. W-Hargreaves
J. Sau
Mark Taufua (NSW country)
D. Gagai
J. Hoffman
D. Farrell
May 29th 2012 @ 9:51am
kingplaymaker said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Greg there must be more than that: Jamal Idris for example played for NSW under-16s.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:59am
Greg said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
That’s just what I know off the top of my head. I know there is a heap more in the u/20′s
May 29th 2012 @ 10:01am
kingplaymaker said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Think Greg there’s could be at least a team or two if you add in the players in non-NRL qualifying positions such as lock and prop who now languish in club rugby or the AFL (the locks not the props!).
May 29th 2012 @ 10:14am
Old Rugby Boy said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:14am | Report comment
I am horrified. Shows you how much I know about RL. The questions must be asked: – Why arent they staying in RU? What is so much more attractive about RL? How can this trend be reversed?
The some of the answers must be with the current administration. Where is our national youth competition?
May 29th 2012 @ 10:18am
kingplaymaker said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:18am | Report comment
ORB look at my explanation to you just below.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:35am
Lidcombe Magpie said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
David Shillington played all his junior rugby with Drew Mitchell and Ben Mowen
May 29th 2012 @ 9:50pm
Tommygun said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:50pm | Report comment
Will Chambers and Cooper Cronk are Rugby products. I will give you that one.
Tyson Frizell has played three NRL games in his career.
Martin Kennedy has played league all his life and only played union ALONGSIDE league when he attended Ipswich Grammar. Kennedy played QLD u/17′s RL and also captained the Australian Rugby League schoolboys.
Lama Tasi played both codes.
JWH is a Kiwi who was already in the Waratahs development squad. The Waratah’s must shoulder some of the blame here for allowing obvious talent to be pilfered. Or perhaps, he is suited better to RL?
Junior Sau came from the Raiders SG Ball side (u/17′s RL), was signed with the Waratahs and subsequently cut and offered a lifeline from Newcastle on a deservedly small contract. He is drifting in and out of first grade. I’m sure Rugby aren’t missing much with him.
Mark Taufua played junior league, switched to union, then switched back to league to play Jersey Flegg at the Knights. The bloke is seriously average. He is not a loss! Last seen languishing in NSW Cup.
Gagai, a league junior, son of Bronco’s winger Ray Gagai and cousin of Hoffman and big Dell, only started playing union when he went to Ipswich grammar where he made the QLD schoolboys side. He returned to league where he made the NYC side of the year two years in a row.
Hoffman went to Keebra Park high on the Gold Coast, a noted League nursery the went on to higher honors with the Bronco’s. Don’t think he ever played Union.
As a 16 year old, Farrell played SG Ball for North Sydney Bears. Progressing over time, he played Toyota Cup for Souths, then broke into the NRL where he is now. Would love a link showing a union connection.
In summary I would be bitter about losing Cronk. Frustration completely understood. Chambers too, especially with the percieved shortage of options for Australian centres. Classy player.
JWH was in the nursery! The Waratahs have to compete, Crusher Cleal saw the talent, drew up a contract and the rest is history. Why didn’t the Tah’s have him signed up already?
Time will tell with Frizell, promising player but the rest of the list is pretty thin, filled with players who have played both codes, players that never played union and players that are struggling to make it in the NRL and I doubt would crack it in a Super Rugby side. (Taufua and Sau, I’m looking at you!)
Poaching in the Rugby codes isn’t all a one way street.
Kurtley Beale anyone? Panthers Junior converted to league with a scholarship and contract from the Tah’s.
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/bound-by-the-school-of-hard-knocks-20120503-1y1r7.html
So, I see your Cooper Cronk with our Kurtley Beale.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:01pm
Tommygun said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:01pm | Report comment
It must also be noted, I don’t dislike RU. Along with League they are both hard, highly physical games that I enjoy watching.
I am a League man first, but having a Kiwi mate, he worked on me and I slowly warmed to the game and follow it now aswell. (Even played a season!)
But as good as both codes are, I am forever sick of the constant b*tching about stealing juniors in Australia. The door swings both ways. If anyone was to have a massive beef with the poaching of juniors it would be the NZRU not the ARU. Konrad Hurrell looks SPECIAL.
May 30th 2012 @ 12:44pm
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Tommy you should write an article on this subject in Australia as well as New Zealand as you seem particularly well-informed.
May 30th 2012 @ 12:34pm
Ted Skinner said | May 30th 2012 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
Will Chambers first played union when he went to Nudge. He was solely a RL junior prior to that. His father was a prominent RL player with Redcliffe in the 1980s.
I’ll think you will find Cooper Cronk was also a RL junior.
BTW Quade Cooper played for the Rochedale JRL in Brisbane while a AGGS.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:00am
kingplaymaker said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
ORB it’s probably even more complex than that unfortunately.
In terms of pure rugby individuals, Australian schoolboys or from a rugby school, yes there will be a limited number although still not inconsiderable. The list Greg has below would in itself be a base for several more Super teams and make the Wallabies far stronger.
The area the NRL rampages and riots in though is the ‘plays both codes’ teenager, who is engaged in both and can choose either, not necessarily from a pure rugby background. The NRL’s 9 teams in NSW and 3 in QLD have so many places squad places to offer that they can just give a brilliant 18 year old a squad place while rugby’s pathetic 1 team in NSW and 1 team in QLD can’t, so the player has to stew for years waiting to get into the Waratahs squad, crammed with established internationals, even if he is actually much better than they are (think of a brilliant young player vs Mumm, Elsom, AAC): but of course he takes the NRL place (Jarrod Saffy said he stewed in the Waratahs academy so slowly when a contract and guaranteed start was offered in the NRL he took it). Now..if rugby had more teams, even one more in NSW and QLD it would instantly be able to offer double the squad places, and in slightly different locations in the state (Western Sydney, Gold Coast), and far more talent would be acquired. The more teams, the more talent could be acquired.
By the way how’s the article on the AFL in rugby’s schools going?
May 29th 2012 @ 10:44am
Old Rugby Boy said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:44am | Report comment
This will have to be my last comment for the day, I better go an earn some money to pay for the internet connection. KPM you are right about the complexity, however, RU has tried to lure back most of these guys but all of them have resigned with the NRL. Why? Why isnt the Super Comp attractive enough?
Just in the AFL article, the backgound reading is very interesting. AFL or VFL in those days had Sydney RU by the throat in 1905. VFL nearly became the dominant winter sport in NSW. In 1905 there were as many VFL clubs as RU clubs and growing. More later.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:59am
kingplaymaker said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:59am | Report comment
I look forward to it very much ORB. Also it is always nice to read about a completely new subject as there has never been anything on here I have read about it.
Regarding your NRL point: most players stick with a code once they have begun it. The question is why the ARU loses them in the first place and the answer is not enough teams and hence squad places in NSW and QLD competing against so many NRL teams and squad places.
May 29th 2012 @ 10:05am
Manoa said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Where are all these pacific island players you talk about. There are only 7 pacific island born players in the NRL.
K. Hurrell
U. Ta’ai
P. Civ
L. Tuqiri
A. Uate
E. Waisele
F. Moi Moi
May 29th 2012 @ 10:29am
Old Rugby Boy said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:29am | Report comment
try the NYC
May 29th 2012 @ 10:33am
Manoa said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
There’s only 3. They are all Australian or NZ born
May 29th 2012 @ 2:14pm
p.Tah said | May 29th 2012 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Nelson Mandela
May 30th 2012 @ 12:46pm
kingplaymaker said | May 30th 2012 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
ORB if you’re still reading send any article in on sunday or monday night otherwise it could get lost in dead parts of the week.
May 29th 2012 @ 6:38am
peeeko said | May 29th 2012 @ 6:38am | Report comment
I think the waratahs cop a lot of flak. Of the last 7 completed seasons they have finished the top Australian side 5 times!
May 29th 2012 @ 6:51am
Moaman said | May 29th 2012 @ 6:51am | Report comment
peeeeeko; The ‘Tahs probably have more players and resources at their disposal than the Highlanders/Crusaders combined! If topping the Australin Conference is the ceiling of your ambition as a fan-that might explain why mediocrity is alive and well in NSW.
May 29th 2012 @ 1:03pm
Jutsie said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Whats concering for me is that the tahs sacked both mckenzie and hickey who were able to lead the team to finals series.
Under foley they are still playing unattractive rugby but are not even getting results.
They can’t really use the excuse of injuries as the tahs suffered as many injuries last year.
May 29th 2012 @ 5:27pm
The Great G Nepia said | May 29th 2012 @ 5:27pm | Report comment
But the issue is that having made all those semi finals and finals, they should have won 2,3,or 4,or 5 titles by now. It is totally unaaceptable tht theyve not won even 1measely title. The waratahs, along with the force, are an absolute disgrace to rugby union. I cant be bothered watching their soft, boring approach to what is fundamentally a sport that requires u 2 b explosive and aggressive. I honestly reckon wesley college 1st xv in nz could smash those prima donnas physically.
May 29th 2012 @ 6:52am
Grimmace said | May 29th 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
Agree with your thoughts on Cronk. Only one I’d pick too.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:41am
LeftArmSpinner said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Brett, must be a short discussion if its on twitter! LOL.
On depth, I don’t agree. It is a matter of supply and demand, and I don’t think we are even close. There are plenty of players to go around. The league ranks need to be included when determining depth. The only a that’s worry about is locks. All the tall guys, the really tall guys, go to rowing, basketball or AFL.
Playmakers will go where they can make plays. And there are some good 10s and 15s coming through.
May 29th 2012 @ 9:07am
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Leftie, sometimes when we’ve really got a point to make, we have to revert to text messages, so as to get the extra 20 characters..
Valid points on depth, but I’ve come from the perspective that the Rebels are coming good, the Brumbies have come good too, and NSW and Qld will always have to numbers. When the smaller states are doing well, things can’t be all bad. We just need a 9 and 10 (and coach) in Perth…
May 29th 2012 @ 7:44am
Lidcombe Magpie said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Johnno, there’s a lot more players than that overseas. Currently there are about 120 Australians contracted to overseas clubs.
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May 29th 2012 @ 10:27pm
The Bush said | May 29th 2012 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
At what level? I find that a tad hard to believe, that’d mean about one in ten professional rugby players outside of super rugby is Australian (and I’m including second division England and France in this equation)…
May 29th 2012 @ 7:52am
Chuck said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
Slater would run rings around any current Australian backline player
May 29th 2012 @ 9:08am
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
That’s all fine and good Chuck, but when he gets tackled on his own, he’s not much help, is he…
May 29th 2012 @ 11:34am
Chuck said | May 29th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
The guy is also allegedly the hardest trainer in a team full of internationals (got quicker over the offseason apparently) – if quade cooper can learn to present a ball for his forwards then Slater certainly could.
Agree with cronk, only i’d pick Slater first.
Always wanted to see Luke Burgess have a crack at league – i reckon he would have been an outstanding #9 with his size, speed and defence.
May 29th 2012 @ 1:40pm
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 1:40pm | Report comment
I’m not interested in debating a hypothetical unlikelihood Chuck, I was just wanting to make the point that running rings doesn’t necessarily help in rugby..
May 29th 2012 @ 7:08pm
Toa said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
I couldn’t believe what i was reading no Slater, Inglis,Smith no way…..what!!! wait I’ll read it again….. well well well at last somebody with substance. Far to often the highlight reels blinds the average punter in believing league’s best should be issued uncontested rugby visas.
Who of the high profile league converts have duplicated their exact feats in the code that made them household names? Research claims Billy Slater in the last 4 years has only started to mature prior he was a run of the mill player riddle with mistakes. To suggest he’ll rip it up in union is nonsense .As brilliant player he is now history will mention frustrations have let him down & what are the chances of learning a different skill set without history repeating itself?
100% with Cooper, its horses for courses and Cronk’s on the right track if opportunity presented itself.
Brett ARU requires your talent continue providing us with more realistic angles.Good Read.
May 29th 2012 @ 12:54pm
Justin2 said | May 29th 2012 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
Slater is a gun, lets not start a pis..sing contest please.
May 29th 2012 @ 7:52am
LeftArmSpinner said | May 29th 2012 @ 7:52am | Report comment
I completley agree with your selection of the best players in each conference, however, you could add the cheetahs Strauss, steyn and SBW or Robinson from the chiefs and Robinson is on the bench. Kerr Barlow has also been good as has the young lock Rantilick????
In Aust, young Foley has had a good first year, Chambelain from the rebels has been good until injury, jones and Pyle have come of age and Monahan and Harris have also been good but Gill and hooper have been the best for my money.
As for Cronk, for too long he flew under the radar in NRL. Now that Lockyer has moved on, thurston goes to 6, Cronk gets 7 all to himself at Origin time. but, I agree, he would have been good, but he is now too old to be a genuine possibility and he demonstrated that he doesn’t get the whole represent your country thing compared to representing your state.
May 29th 2012 @ 8:03am
Riccardo said | May 29th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Excellent read Brett.
The discussion regarding the extra team for each Sanzar nation is redundant given that the Agreement won’t be reviewed until 2015. Australia would be better off strengthening its existing conference IMO. As other Roarers have indicated perhaps the answer lies in some of the players based overseas.
The question you ask regarding the Tahs and NSW Rugby is similar to the issue the Blues have over here. I tend to agree with your assessment that the current product issues stem from a number of streams. Amateurish nepotism is rife within both organisations and is perhaps not the best platform to address existing culture based problems. Both have Coaches with limited man-management abilities, let alone actual coaching frailties. The players appear to also be subject to the same culture issues. I have heard this described by Rugby scribes as the “entitlement” problem which seems accurate. Compare these organisations with the Brumbies, or the Hurricanes, or the Chiefs where it’s obvious everyine is 100% behind one and other, striving for a mutual goal and executing gameplans with belief and confidence in and for each other.
As far as favourite players go it’s a bit of a lottery as there are so many which is exciting going into test season.
South Africa – huge raps on Pietersen too. Big future for him but the player that has stood out for me was Goosen, before he got injured, given what he can bring to the Boks. Morne Steyn is a great player but if the Boks are going to ameliorate their game plan to be the best team in the world, which they should be on paper, they need to build it around Goosen and his all-round game.
Australia – Higgs has come on in leaps and bounds and is a more aggressive and complete player as long as it translates to the next level. But his team-mate Gill is the future and my pick. His work against the Crusaders and Chiefs in particular has been outstanding.
New Zealand – I’ve been applauding Smith from the beginning of the season. But the list is long, given that I’m a Kiwi with obvious occular issues. Cruden has really stepped up. His control and patience against the Bulls speaks volumes to his progress. My pick though is Andre Taylor, for sheer entertainment value. I’m aware that he needs to continue to work on his game to progress to the next level but the way he scores tries or is alway running in support reminds me so much of Christian Cullen, that it gets emotional.
It is refreshing to hear your thoughts on Deans who is roundly chastised by most on thie site. I’ve said elsewhere that we should wait until the return of much of the injured roster and the completion of this year’s Rugby Championship before handing out marks and it would be prudent to note that they will be interim only. Like it or not Dingo’s here for a while and we should all get in behind him. Many Roarers should take a deep breath and reflect on the fact that Australia remains #2 in the World. That is some achievement for a nation that competes with other codes domestically and then fronts up against the All Blacks and the Boks, nations that live and breathe the sport.
I have no interest in Rugby League and will take your word that Cronk would be the incumbent.
May 29th 2012 @ 11:31am
Brett McKay said | May 29th 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Hi Riccardo, really glad you’ve enjoyed the read; it’s a great concept all in all, and I look forward to sending Ryano’s questions to him tonight, too..
The Blues/Tahs link is quite obvious as you point out, and you could throw the Lions into that mix too. Of course the prognosis for the Lions is a lot worse than anything the Tahs and Blues face!. The Chiefs are another side that’s on it’s way back up, and you’re right, when everyone is working toward a common goal, the results take care of themselves. I think the Hurricanes will be better again next year.
On the best players, I hope you get a chance to check out the link I’ve posted below for Joe Pietersen’s try I refer to – I never get sick of watching it..
It astounds me the amount of presumption made in these forums regarding Robbie Deans’ future employment. You’d swear The Roar is where the grumpy old school career advisors congregate, just so they can say “you’ll never amount to anything”. His past four years mean nothing for this current contract; he can only be judged on results over the next 18 months.
My word on Cronk is solid, I’m not steering you down any garden paths there