Wallabies must work harder to be number one again
By Frank O'Keeffe, 26 Jun 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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- Alan Jones, Nick Farr-Jones, robbie deans, Rugby Union, wallabies
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The Wallabies were brought back down to earth by Scotland (AAP Image/Paul Miller)
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A recent discussion here on The Roar has got me thinking. A fellow Roarer noted that prior to the 1978 Cornelsen Test, Australia didn’t have a great rugby history against New Zealand.
This is perhaps a little unfair, as Australia has had some bright periods against New Zealand, but there’s also some truth to it. Australia didn’t hold the Bledisloe Cup from 1949 to 1979 – that’s 30 years without a series win against New Zealand.
I strongly suggest people watch the rugby documentary ‘The Rise and Rise of Australian Rugby’, which fantastically documents the struggles Australia had to go through to become the world’s best rugby team in 1991.
The documentary touches upon the disastrous 1972 Bledisloe Cup series, which I suppose is Australian rugby’s equivalent to Bill Lawry’s 1969 Test side that toured South Africa and lost 4-0.
It then notes the lowest point in Australian rugby history – a loss to Tonga.
It touches upon the debut of Ray Price in 1974, and the drawn Test that year against New Zealand, which was a surprise to many.
It then moves on to discuss the 1975 series against England, where the Dave Brockhoff Wallabies debuted their step-forward approach.
It then moved on to the violent 1978 Welsh tour, and how Australia beat the best side in the Northern Hemisphere even away from home.
It touches upon the impact the influx of the 1977/78 Schoolboys had on the Wallabies – Ella, Hawker, O’Connor, Roche, etc.
Australia had to really struggle to become a world power in rugby, which it did under the fabulous coaching of the legendary Alan Jones in 1984.
But now that Australia’s been one of the world’s best sides from 1984-2004, are we beginning to get too comfortable?
The Wallabies last held the Bledisloe Cup in 2002. It’s nearly been a decade since Australia won the Bledisloe Cup.
There was a loss to Tonga in 1973, but there was a loss to Samoa in 2011. And while Samoa are a much better side than people give them credit for, that was a loss the Wallabies should never have had.
Scotland should never have beaten Australia in 1982, but they had more of a right to win than the Scotland that beat Australia on the failed 2009 Grand Slam tour. Australia have now lost to Scotland twice in the last four years. A few years ago this would have been unthinkable.
Ireland ruined the Grand Slam in 2009 with a last-gasp O’Driscoll try, and Australia lost to them in the early stages of the 2011 World Cup.
What’s concerning to me is that Australians are starting to accept this.
Some of the excuses I’m hearing are unacceptable, such as, ‘We’re still the second best side in the world.’ The second best side in the world didn’t look too convincing against Wales.
What’s especially been disheartening to me as a Wallabies fan is that I can’t see Australia winning the Bledisloe Cup back this year, based off the Welsh performances.
I started this article talking about how the Wallabies went 30 years without the Bledisloe. But, this was before the Bledisloe Cup became an annual tournament in 1982. Australia and New Zealand have played each other almost as many times in the last 10 years, and yet there’s still no Bledisloe Cup.
There was a 10-Test losing streak that should never have been allowed to happen. In five of those Tests Australia were leading at half time. The 10-streak Wallabies were the inverse of the big match Wallaby side of 1998-2003.
There’s a lethargy I’m sensing from Wallaby fans, that Australia’s still a great rugby nation and being the world’s second best side is good enough. No, it’s not!
I really dislike it when people say that Australia hasn’t got the cattle. Something I always liked about Alan Jones was he never saw problems with the talent, he saw the problems are with the teacher. In that sense he’s like Michel Thomas of rugby.
It was refreshing to read Jones’ article a few weeks ago about how Australia has the talent to win. Why don’t we all have that attitude?
We’re not appreciating the fact that we’re starting to accept defeat to the All Blacks. Someone said to me, ‘Oh we never used to beat New Zealand, the last two decades were just a bit of an exception.’
Something I used to love about the Wallabies, and Australian sport in general, is Australia always thought it could beat anybody. I’m sure other countries found it arrogant, but I loved that Australia never accepted mediocrity.
The Wallabies of 1998-2003 were big match performers in every sense of the world. How did Australia win the following games?
• 1999 World Cup semi-final (Larkham’s drop-goal)
• 2000 Wellington Test (Eales’ winning penalty)
• 2000 Cape Town Test (Mortlock’s penalty)
• 2001 Lions series (6-11 down in the second Test, they win the series)
• 2001 Sydney Test (Kefu’s famous try)
• 2002 Sydney Test (Matt Burke scored the winning penalty)
• 2003 World Cup semi-final (Mortlock’s intercept)
I’d even say Australia were huge in the World Cup Final, so much so that I thought in the 78th minute that Australia would win the Test! They had a line-out and I expected them to steal another game.
Australia had no right to win the 2003 World Cup. England were far superior. And while people love talking about the reffing of the scrums, I still think Australia lifted and sent a Test into overtime that they didn’t deserve to win.
Do people remember when Australia were beaten in 2003 by New Zealand and the headlines ran: ‘We can’t win the World Cup.’ Nobody expected Australia to win, yet their forwards played all over the All Blacks.
Australia doesn’t have that aura anymore. In hindsight, the 2006 Brisbane Test was the last time an underdog Wallabies side went up against a much, much better side, and gave New Zealanders a fright.
I knew New Zealanders who, after that Test, talked about having flashbacks to all those close Tests New Zealand used to lose from 2000-2003, when they should have won.
Nick Farr-Jones said it in 2005: other countries no longer fear us. We lost that aura of a great champion side.
I worry that 2012 will just be another example of Australia losing to New Zealand, and hearing the same old excuses about not having the cattle, about how Australia is still the second best side in the world, so it’s okay, etc.
What happened to the arrogant Australians who thought they should win every Test?
When people say, ‘It’s okay Australia are the second best side in the world’, that is what’s wrong with Australian rugby.
As far as I’m concerned, Australian rugby needs to take a good hard look at itself. We’re fooling ourselves if we think we can win the Bledisloe Cup playing the rugby we played against the Welsh. Things are worse than people want to realise.
And I got to say it: Robbie Deans is the most immune rugby coach I have ever seen. If Eddie Jones had his record (which he doesn’t, he has a better record than Deans), he’d have been dumped long ago.
Australian rugby took account of itself in the mid 70′s, realized it needed to do some extra work, and clawed its way to the top, inch by inch, until it got there in 1991.
Australia needs to do the same thing again. But instead we seem stuck in this funk, telling ourselves we’re still number two, which is pernicious.
During many instances where Australia were number two, any team from tenth to third in the world was capable of beating us. Australians told themselves they were number two, and then they lost to a horrible English side at the 2007 World Cup.
The Robbie Deans Wallabies are really quite a drop from the 1984-1986 Wallabies, the 1991-1993 Wallabies, and the 1999-2001 Wallabies.
We need to start asking ourselves why we’re not number one, and then throw everything into getting there.
The current Wallabies owe it to the Tony Shaw’s, the Mark Loane’s, the Paul McLean’s, to make sure all that hard work the Wallabies in the past did to make the Wallabies the world’s best side continues.
To any Wallabies reading this, you’ve got until August to light a fire under yourselves.
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June 26th 2012 @ 1:39am
SkinnyKid said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:39am | Report comment
Frank, great article. I have the DVD’s of The Rise and Rise of Australian rugby. Brilliant. I watch them again and again. The last DVD of the set has all the games of the grand slam tour in 84 + the BaaBaas game. The wallabies run some classic set moves from short arms.
Anyway, I discussed this many times but to be honest, the longer I am around rugby the more I come to understand that we will never be a main stay number 1.
The reality is rugby is our 3rd or 4th football code. We just dont have the rugby DNA of the Kiwis and Saffers. We’ll continue to have purple patches but to expect us to be as good as the ABs long term is just a pipe dream.
There is a great doco I watched on a Cathay flight to HK the other day about rugby in New Zealand and just how much of the fabric it is. If you can get hold of it watch it. Its called THE HISTORY OF ” RUGBY THE LIFEBLOOD OF NEW ZEALAND “.
There are schools in NZ that offer Rugby as a subject…yes thats right, you can take rugby as a school subject.
I couldn’t help but laugh when I saw the clips of most of the kids, even in later high school training in bare feet…(incidentally there are studies that show this improves muscle development and balance for later in life) anyway Jeznez (regular roarer) and I coach at a rugby clinic in Singapore. Great bunch of kids but its fair to say they are expat kids so are well looked after by their parents…when I suggested they train bare foot most of them were scared of the dirt on their feet.
Now I know you couldn’t get more opposite than Lower Hutt Kids and Singapore Expat Kids but you get my drift right?
June 26th 2012 @ 2:01am
niik said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:01am | Report comment
Absolutely spot on.
And the biggest excuse that gets used? This team is a “work in progress”. Ah well that explains it then.
June 26th 2012 @ 2:16am
SkinnyKid said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Thats the point, the ABs are never a work in progress. Just when you start to think they are going start to fade and McCaw and Carter get older they roll out 2 or 3 new blokes that look to have just as brighter future.
June 26th 2012 @ 1:58am
James said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:58am | Report comment
I get the impression that the Wallabies and their supporters (especially when Deans took over) get caught up and so focused on trying to beat the All blacks to the point they lose focus on how to beat other teams hence for these shock losses. . One reason why the ABs have been so successful is that they don’t focus on other teams. Its about individual battles and sticking to your game plan and being able to execute it.
Prior to Deans, losing was unacceptable. What I find interesting is coaches before Deans (Jones and Connolly) were treated more harshly by the rugby fraternity and media. I guess Deans background as the most successful super rugby coach and being a former assistant AB coach has given him this sense of ‘aura’ about him and that he knew what he was doing (despite the losses).
Every loss with Jones and Connolly was deemed unacceptable. With Deans, a loss is ‘ok ‘because it a ‘working progress’ that would pay off during the world cup. It didn’t and now the rugby fraternity are starting to realize the game plan is not working under Deans.
Wallabies are capable of beating the ABs. They just need to take a realist approach and stop giving Deans (and some of his players) more credit than he (they) deserve.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:03am
Dasher said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
You’re right. Deans has instilled a culture where a loss is “part of the process”. Well I hope to see the end of the process soon because if we wish to knock New Zealand off the top peg, we will never do it with that attitude.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:25am
WQ said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:25am | Report comment
James I disagree, the previous coaches to Deans were treated harshly because they coached straight after a period of domination by the Wallabies were they were expected to win. Unfortunately the world class players the Wallabies had retired, and there quite simply were no world class players to replace them, hence they started losing more frequently.
Initially the coaches were blamed however over a period of years and coaches it has been realised that it is about depth and the fact that the Australian Rugby set up is just not churning out a volume of world class players. This realisation is what has saved Deans nothing else.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:52am
Tissot Time said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:52am | Report comment
James I agree with your comment.
“One reason why the ABs have been so successful is that they don’t focus on other teams. Its about individual battles and sticking to your game plan and being able to execute it”.
Interestingly James Haskell mentioned recently one of the main things he learnt from playing in SR at the Highlanders was that NZL players knew little of their opponents but focused on their own game and game plan.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:34pm
Dasher said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
And that at times can be their biggest undoing.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:31pm
Kuruki said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:31pm | Report comment
He was referring to Adam Thompson and Andrew Hore. Two pretty laid back characters. Not so much all NZ players.
June 26th 2012 @ 2:24am
SkinnyKid said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:24am | Report comment
Agree.
I have a theory in most things..” put the hard work and process together and just let it happen.” Quite the genius aren’t I…? dont answer that.
Now, that’s great, but does Aussie Rugby have the process? Clearly not. Will we ever have the factory level process of NZ? highly highly unlikely.
So lets just do what we do best. Get back to aussie rugby of the past…lets get creative in the back line and hard up front. Truth is I’d rather watch a 4th ranked Wallabies throwing the ball around rather than a 2nd ranked bunch of guys playing to not make mistakes.
Thats why I am perplexed at the Digby knockers. Yeah he has hands like feet at times but for god sake, the guy is flat out ALL the time and when it works it amazing to watch.
Rant over
June 26th 2012 @ 2:56am
Sneaky Samurai said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:56am | Report comment
“Hands like feet…” Classic!
He’s also got arms like thighs and heart the size of a lung…
June 26th 2012 @ 3:07am
Dan said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:07am | Report comment
well people its like this NZ has nearly twice as many registered playes yes you heard right nealry twice as many. (145k)
But are not twice as good.
South Africa has 8 times more registered players yes 8 times (680K)
They definatley are not 8 times better.
Australia has around 80K
We do very well considering these facts.
Also
we have the best half back, openside, wing. our centres go hard and our backs on there day are a spectacle.
we lack potency in the tight five when we havent got out first pick but I also reckon our scrums scrutiny pays divedends to teams that pull down on the blind or collaps with other tactics and the ref thinks “oh must be Aus they have a shit scrum ill give the other team the penalty” .
we play some mediocre footy against the best in Nthrn Hemisphere and win 3 nil the mind boggels as what this teams actual potential is the problem it seems is bringing it out.
I do have to say though if we turn up like that in August against the Blacks they will hand out asses to us in the first 15 minutes.
Maybe it is what we need.
I also would have to add if it was us in the final last year RWC we would of flogged france.
Obviously lossing to Ireland made our draw so much harder I mean backing up after beating the reigning champs and facing the Blacks was never going to happen loosing to ireland was a serious admin error on the staffs part but before the game I did not feel confident we have always had close test with Ireland in big games this was their turn the planets aligned so to speak.
I love this wallaby team but the last test against Wales was terrible I have never been so frustrated watching a game of Rugga wales tactics were obvious and shxt and made for a crappy game. I have to say though both teams knew what the other was doing before they did it.
Cmon boys fire up ffs!!!!
adapt/improvise and overcome….
Dominate/
easy!!!
June 26th 2012 @ 6:42am
mania said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:42am | Report comment
dan – u forgot to mention. population aus 22million, SA 50 million, Wales 3 Million, Samoa 190 000, NZ 4 million.
good luck wallaby’s. gonna b a good 4Nations this year.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:32am
defunkt said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:32am | Report comment
According to the IRB website New Zealand has 146893 registered players between 600 clubs (http://www.irb.com/unions/union=11000008/index.html) and Australia 297389 players between 767 clubs (http://www.irb.com/unions/union=11000007/index.html).
June 26th 2012 @ 9:33am
atlas said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Dan twice as good, eight times better etc
NZ through the Henry/Hansen era have lost an average of one game in every ten (played 106 won 91)
Australia – four games in ten (played 60 won 36)
Four times a many losses. NZ is not ‘twice as good’ – but better.
June 28th 2012 @ 5:45pm
Dan said | June 28th 2012 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
Yes mate but it took you another 13 years to acheive what we have on the world scene.
We were 17 seconds from winning three world cups in 5 tornys that I beleive speaks for itself.
Congrats on not choking well you have to say they nearly did if it wasnt for uncle Ritchie les blues would of had yas.
you know it the fear was evident half way through the second halve correct me if i am wrong…
Do you double our score everytime you we play. No
you did win 10 in a row but 7 of them were by less than a try so realistically it could of gone either way.
And if you noticed i did praise the Blacks on their dominaant display last weekend, simply awesome.
And fellas those figures came from numerous sights many contradicted the other but this is what was displayed by most and if you noticed I did approximate.
Cheers
June 26th 2012 @ 10:28am
WQ said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Dan, if you are going to provide statistics for goodness sake at least ensure you are accurate!
An old friend once told me that 98.99% of all statistics are made up on the spot!!
June 26th 2012 @ 10:41am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
You can find statistics to prove anything, 14% of all people know that – Homer J Simpson
June 26th 2012 @ 1:18pm
Richie (Melbourne) said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
> well people its like this NZ has nearly twice as many registered playes yes you heard right nealry twice as many.
Australia has twice as many registered players as New Zealand. See the IRB website for stats.
Even with the correct numbers, the breakdown is misleading.
– The NZ figures also count pre-teen and teen female players, accounting for around 13,000 or just under 10% of the player pool.
– The senior player pools, which are the elite team feeders, are 27k (NZ) and 57k (Aus).
June 27th 2012 @ 9:14pm
liam said | June 27th 2012 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
rugby the life blood of NZ is such a massive load of horses**t.
quote the numbers for sure, but go look at the fifa site and you’ll see that NZ has 100,000 registered soccer players, another 100,000 active unregistered players.
in schools and age-groups, soccer is much bigger than rugby in NZ. generally theres a lot of sport participation in NZ, but it’s spread over dozens and dozens of sports, rugby is just one. It gets most of the coverage because its the biggest pro sports and the allblacks history which most NZers are proud of.
But, NZ isnt some seething hotbed of rugby. South Africa, Wales, these are places with just as much if not more rugby culture.
If you’re looking for excuses as to why the aussie team isn’t the best, don’t assume the whole of NZ plays rugby. The rugby structures and coaching is very developed in NZ, thats the real difference.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:47am
The Werewolf said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:47am | Report comment
Interesting article.
A little confused by the state of panic it eludes to though.
Did we not just beat the 6 nations champions 3 nil. As for the losses to Scotland those are the things that can happen in professional sport where 15 men line up against 15 other men. It is almost like someone once promised you nothing but success from the wallabies. It comes in cycles… like our cricket team for instance.
As for eras such as 1984 to 91 lets not forget that the wallabies were playing against accountants and lawyers, not professional athletes. We evolved into the best by 91 because our wallabies started a professional approach when others had not. Coupled with this was that we happened to have the right talent at the right time. Plain and simple. Ten years later we’d become just another professional team with the same amount of talent as everyone else. We are just lucky to have rugby league to consolidate our talent pool and our rugby culture and we are lucky that we are involved in super rugby and the tri nations where the NZ and SA nations, where rugby is a religion, give us the stiff opposition to maintain a degree of excellence.
And that’s where we are today. A nation where rugby is fourth in the pecking order of football codes. The USA have more players playing the game than us, and so from year to year, world cup to world cup there will never be any guarantee that we are automatically no1. We are usually there or there abouts and hopefully soon we’ll be clear cut no 1 for a change but alot of things will need to be in our favour and some will be circumstancial and out of our control.
It won’t just happen by popular demand. Just insisting it happens by stamping your feet will not make any difference other than to force our players to resent their fans like the English footballers do. it won’t happen by demanding w eplay like the amateur glory days because the game and its professional defences have changed the manner in which we have to play to be no 1.
But why is no 2 at the moment so terrible? Are you saying we should always be no 1? Why should we be? Do we have a god given right above other nations?
We need a fan base that supports the side rather than make absolute demands of it and we need to stop dwelling about what happened in the amateur days beacuse when the game went professional so did our general strangle hold on being world cup title certainties.
Our rise to the top at the end of the amateur age was never going to be as long lasting as most patriots would no doubt hope. I agree we should always be strivibg to get back on top but as the game continues on into the professional age so will the likelihood that at times different nations will rise to the top just like in every other professional sport.
Rant over. i’m going for a lie down.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:13am
Dan said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:13am | Report comment
Yes mate you do that did you watch the games? the Blacks will paste us by 30+ in Sydney if we rock up like we did on the weekend.
We have the talent but is no where near as cohesive as it needs to be for us to beat the Blacks I feel we have gone backwards and are going to struggle in our defence of the old tri nations.
Even Argentina will pose a serious threat they have always had the goods just lacked direction they play with passion and with Uncle Henrys “overseeing” they will be credible to say the least.
And Frank seriously mate we still dont have a flash history against the all Blacks and never have
Longest winning streak = 4 games they win on average around 67 percent of the time.
That doesnt really differ home or away.
my 20 cents.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:40am
The Werewolf said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:40am | Report comment
rock up like we did on the weekend?
the difference between the all blacks and the wallabies on the weekend is that they played against a side that had one of the worst defensive efforts in living memory….
and the wallabies played against the best defensive side from the NH.
AB’s may think they are already world beaters but we’ve got a few tricks up our sleeves and pending all our injured returning from duty we’ll give then a run for their money as we almost always do. We’ve beaten them in 2010 and 2011 and 2012 will be no different.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:52am
mania said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:52am | Report comment
good spirit WW. hope the wallbies have the same mindset. i’m always worried when we play aus. no game is ever a given.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:36am
JBees said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
I’m with you on this one mania
June 26th 2012 @ 9:39am
ohtani's jacket said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:39am | Report comment
The difference between the All Blacks and the Wallabies is that when the All Blacks are unhappy with how they played they really mean it whereas with the Wallabies it’s lip service.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:43am
Jutsie said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Wow OJ I didnt realise you could read minds, thats some talent you have. Why are wasting your time on internet forums? you could make a mint on one of those psychic hotlines.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:45am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
Really? Fascinating conclusion based on nothing…
June 26th 2012 @ 10:31am
ohtani's jacket said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:31am | Report comment
One side was disappointed with their performance and turned in one of their better games in recent times. The other side is forever regressing no matter what they say.
June 26th 2012 @ 5:02pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
Forever regressing with a clean sweep over the six nations grand slam champions. OK OJ.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:54pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:54pm | Report comment
“Forever regressing” … Is that like devolving?
So the knuckles start to hang down, the jaw thickens, we start to use stone tools, then climb back into the trees, then down again to develop gills and plunge into the ocean which then becomes primordial soup as we in turn lose our vertebrae and then become a single-celled protoplasm? No wonder we have problems in the rucks…
June 26th 2012 @ 10:05am
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Pure gold OJ! Who writes your stuff?
June 26th 2012 @ 10:23am
M.O.C. said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:23am | Report comment
In a sense I tend to agree with OJ a bit here, but my take is a little different – the wallabies seem to have very short memories – they can be playing terribly but one good game seems to have them thinking they are world-beaters….until the next shocker. I blame a too-easily-pleased press and back-slapping hangers-one, who seem happy to laud over hollow victories.
When the ABs won by a kick at the death, they considered it a loss, and very lucky and came out the next week to prove a point – when the WBs won by a kick at the death, they chalked it up as a good grinding win.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:59am
Sage said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:59am | Report comment
you’re awesome to know that OJ. you know some awesome stuff ay
June 26th 2012 @ 10:03am
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:03am | Report comment
“AB’s may think they are already world beaters”…. and that attitude has served NZ well in the past. Remember that 747 all covered in All Black players on the way to some world cup or another (one of the ones they went in as favourites but didn’t win, can’t remember which, there was heaps of them)?
June 26th 2012 @ 2:01pm
Jerry said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
‘Remember that 747″
That was 99. It was pretty impressive the way Taine Randell and John Hart personally convinced Air New Zealand to paint a 747 and it was even more impressive that Kees Meuwws and Anton Oliver actually painted it themselves.
Oh wait, neither of those things happened. It was a sponsor’s initiative which didn’t actually have anything to do with the team.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:00pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
Speaks volumes for the kiwi mentality though doesn’t it Jerry!!
June 26th 2012 @ 3:15pm
Jerry said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
No, it speaks volumes for the popularity of rugby in NZ that Air NZ thought it would be a good marketing move. Rugby mentality has nothing to do with it – it wasn’t rugby people that made the decision, it was business and marketing people.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:24pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Sorry Jerry, I didn’t say “speaks volumes for the rugby mentality”, I said “speaks volumes for the kiwi mentality”. As you quite rightly point out, it was business and marketing people who made a decision based upon their perception of the kiwi mentality.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:39pm
Jerry said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
If that plane spoke volumes, what does this one say?
http://www.jaunted.com/files/6193/QanWallab.jpg
June 26th 2012 @ 3:41pm
Sage said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
I think they may have said it was OK though Jerry. Don’t you reckon ? Normally that’s how branding and imagery works especially a brand as famous as the AB’s. No question they said “no worries, good idea” or words to that effect or it wouldn’t have happened which does make it their decision.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:44pm
Jerry said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Or this one? http://nzaviation.com/wp-content/themes/aviation/scripts/timthumb.php?src=/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/2007May25-055431.jpg&w=300&h=200&zc=1&q=75
June 26th 2012 @ 5:01pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
Yes, I believe that it is a conspiracy that Qantas would want to support the team that they sponsor, the Qantas Wallabies. Just like the Air New Zealand All Blacks of ’99.
Anyway, two can google image and I have discovered the preferred NZ vehicle, at least for pleasure:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_T7dP7GlEyM3J7Slmo-UokLv3y5eV3rZF3xIzqmBj0NOHHIuj
All dressed up.
June 26th 2012 @ 5:10pm
Jerry said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
You’re the one who claimed an airline painting a plane in the colours of the team was representative of the AB’s thinking they’re world beaters and was a reflection on the Kiwi mentality. Well, the same thing has been done with the Wallabies at the last two RWC’s (those two images I linked to were the 07 and 11 Qantas versions) so apparently, the mentality isn’t unique to us Kiwis.
June 26th 2012 @ 5:24pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:24pm | Report comment
Brilliant line of reasoning. Why not just write under my name rather than put words in my mouth under yours?
My point was about what has happened on previous occasions when the AB’s and their supporters have sauntered around throwing the self proclaimed “world-beaters” tag around. Pretty sure that in 07 and 11 the Wallabies, or their supporters were not unbearably arrogant at any stage of the tournament, before, during or after.
Ritchie McCaw will be nodding his head when he reads my post, thoughtfully muttering to himself “yes, very true Mr Gamba, pride does cometh before the fall which I well know. I will try to remember that after our flogging of Ireland. I will also try to be on-side from now on. Just joking.”
June 26th 2012 @ 7:57pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
Excuse me prawn, King Richie reads MY posts and nods, not yours!
June 26th 2012 @ 8:21pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:21pm | Report comment
Is this THE Mike?
June 26th 2012 @ 8:31pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:31pm | Report comment
Nah, the other one.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:41pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
There can’t be more than one surely!
June 27th 2012 @ 5:01am
Jerry said | June 27th 2012 @ 5:01am | Report comment
You’re a special little flower, aren’t you Gamba.
I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about Aussie supporters, especially in respect of 2011 (well, until the Irish game, but Aussie rugby arrogance does tend to be pretty short lived for obvious reasons).
June 27th 2012 @ 8:55am
El Gamba said | June 27th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I thought we were on the same side Jerry but now you are calling me names
June 27th 2012 @ 9:02am
Mike said | June 27th 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
No, no, Jerry, that’s not arrogance.
Thinking we have a country and society so good that most kiwis want to move here – THAT’S arrogance!
June 27th 2012 @ 12:18pm
Jerry said | June 27th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
It might be a compliment Gamba, you’ll never know….
Mike – I believe it’s customary to quote Sir Robert Muldoon – “New Zealanders who move to Australia raise the average IQ of both countries”
June 27th 2012 @ 12:20pm
Mike said | June 27th 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Oh, yes, I remember, Piggy. Was he your Prime Minister? I thought he just narrated the Rocky Horror Show.
June 26th 2012 @ 2:11pm
Sage said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
Yes, I remember that well El Gamba. It was ’99
June 26th 2012 @ 3:21pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
Apparently that plane is doing the Islamabad – Lanzhou milk run now.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:52pm
Sage said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
with all darkness imagery removed I hear. Even the black box
June 26th 2012 @ 5:05pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
Luckily the black box isn’t a requirement of either country’s civil aviation laws.
June 26th 2012 @ 1:34pm
Richie (Melbourne) said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:34pm | Report comment
> we’ll give then a run for their money as we almost always do
I sincerely hope that there’s more to their game plan than turning up and expecting to give the ABs a run for their money!
June 26th 2012 @ 7:58pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:58pm | Report comment
Nah, we’ll just turn up, nothing more. Don’t worry about it. No need for your team to train either.
June 26th 2012 @ 6:37pm
Kuruki said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:37pm | Report comment
Werewolf. The performance the irish put in on the second test was more then anything the Welsh threw at the Wallabies and vice versa. The last time Ireland played a game of rugby that hard they beat the Wallabies in the World cup.
June 29th 2012 @ 10:36am
Dan said | June 29th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
do you recall the RWC 2011??? when we played that side with “the worst defensive efforts in living memory”?
we have always had a rough time against them in big games only pipping them at the last minute twice.
Mate I am very passionate about the wallabies more than every one I know But I love your side /point of view just reckon its a bit one eyed but I gotta love it cheers.
Best half of footy seen was last years 1st half at suncorp we play a full 80 like that and no team will get close.
Also I know we have a few tricks up our sleeve but dont think it will be enough , well not at eden park anyway…..
June 26th 2012 @ 8:19am
moaman said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Dan—Did you even see the posting above by defunkt? Your trotting out of the mythical number of cattle merely reinforces Mr O’Keeffe’s premise! In reality,Australia has more senior,male rugby players playing than NZ does and the “we don’t have the cattle” line just doesn’t wash.Try thinking of them as ‘players’ instead of bovines and you might get better results!
Frank; It has been clear to me since joining the Roar that ,in general and with some notable exceptions,Roarers (well,Australian Roarers) DO accept mediocrity.Look at the long-suffering Waratah faithful as a case in point.I applaud those matyrs who have made their displeasure known in recent times but for how long has this well-resourced union failed to deliver?
Skinnykid–What you said about throwing the ball around and playing good rubgy at no.4 is probably the way to go;You entertain the fans,click over the turnstiles,finance the development and inspire a new generation.
June 29th 2012 @ 12:05pm
Dan said | June 29th 2012 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Moarman !!!!where did I mention cattle mate??
and here is the stats . Apologies but previous sites showed much differant figures this is IRB figures
NZ Registered players 146,893 (total)[1]
28,648 (adults)
Australia 86,952 (total)
41,049 (adult
June 26th 2012 @ 6:29am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 6:29am | Report comment
Outside of the undeniable talent we have in Australia I have seen very little to get excited about re game plans, innovation etc.
Losing to Scotland? Completely and utterly unacceptable. Twice in 4 years, once at home? Say no more
June 26th 2012 @ 10:11am
Frank O'Keeffe said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:11am | Report comment
I think I wrote this column mainly because I’m sensing yet another year where the Wallabies don’t win the Bledisloe Cup, and that’s not acceptable.
I can accept that New Zealand will generally dominate rugby. It means a lot to their country. But the Wallabies could have won it in 2008 and 2009, and they stuffed it horribly… mainly through terrible Deans coaching.
I remember leaving Etihad Stadium in 2010 just being exasperated that the Wallabies can’t lift anymore.
I just don’t see the Wallabies winning the Bledisloe Cup this year.
Also, people are kidding themselves if they think the Welsh series win indicates a bright future for the Wallabies. Wales nearly won that 2-1! Wales should have won that second game, but they kicked the ball away. And it was a similar story in the third Test. Wales were a much better side in the World Cup last year.
June 26th 2012 @ 2:42pm
Taste it said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
If you accept that NZ will generally dominate world rugby then how can you find it not acceptable when/if the wallabies fail to win the Bledisloe? That does not make sense. Your sober evidence pointing to the unacceptable wallaby failures in 2008, 2009 and 2010 is nonsensical then because your high wallaby expectations collide with your acceptance “that NZ will generally dominate world rugby”.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:00pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Exactly.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:27pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
I think he’s got you Frank. A very valid point which so simply and eloquently negates every argument to the contrary.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:38pm
Frank O'Keeffe said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Expecting the Wallabies to win one/two Bledisloe Series per decade is hardly contradicting me expecting NZ to dominate world rugby generally.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:11pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:11pm | Report comment
True.
But it also brings into focus that Australia’s problems go beyond Deans, or any coach – that period carries you back almost to McQueen. I suggest it emphasises the need to look at Australian Rugby at several levels at once, if we do want to lift our game. Like Sheek’s analysis below.
June 27th 2012 @ 9:18pm
liam said | June 27th 2012 @ 9:18pm | Report comment
mate, trott out the “it means a lot to them” again.
dozens of aussies came out with this after the world cup. “oh, we dont care, nzers would have all killed themselves if they hadnt won and we dont really care about rugby anway”
i read that many times.
great attitude. really grown up.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:14am
Miglia said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
Good article, Frank, but can we really beat our chests about a 3-0 result against Wales when we just scraped by them? There are so many questions about the Wallabies. How good is our front row? Is Robinson really a great loose head? Are Alexander and Ma’afu first class? Why isn’t Moore starting instead of a hooker who can’t throw straight? With Horwill out, Sharpe has to play in the 4N when he’d planned on retiring. Timani will probably partner him because it’s doubtful Vickerman will be back. How good is Timani? Half the Roarers don’t rate him. And seeing it’s doubtful that Palu will score tries – I’d rank him way behind Read, Parese, Harinordoquy and Picamoles – should Higginbotham be groomed as an 8? Should Dennis take Higger’s place at 6?
Need a few more questions? Will Cooper come back to test rugby and own the 10 jersey? If so, can we afford not to play Barnes at 12? Should O’Connor play 13 with either Mitchell, Tomane or Turner outside him?
I don’t see how most if any of these questions can be answered before we face the ABs in Sydney August 18 then again seven days later in Auckland. The ABs will be much too good for us because they’re an excellent team and we’re not. The Boks have big weaknesses but will still be hard to beat in SA. We can’t evaluate the Pumas till they get their European players back but we can count on them having a formidable scrum. They’ll be pretty damn tough in Rosario.
Bottom line is the Wallabies are just getting by. And just getting by is not going to hack it come the 4N.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:31am
Darwin Stubbie said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:31am | Report comment
From the outside looking in the problem stems from the players not willing to put in the hard yards to continually improve …. There’s a real sense of once having cracked it there’s no requirement to fix their flaws – the money is good and there is no way they’ll be dropped … And what happens these flaws regularly pop up when the pressure is applied – Burgess, Mitchell, Elsom, Cooper, Horne, O’Connor, Beale, Palu etc all have kinks that they entered international rugby with and they get pandered to so the incentive isn’t there to improve …. Sure NZ have the depth to drop players and tell them where they need to improve to get back – some put the work in and come back better players ready to play international football – others like Ross or Ranger don’t … If Deans was serious about building a culture then Cooper wouldn’t get a sniff until he corrects his tackling problems …. Beale also needs a jolt re his work under the high ball and his defence – over the last few seasons watching Bledisloe tests you get the impression the kiwis are certain that if the keep applying the blowtorch one or couple of players will crack and provide the opportunity they’re after
June 26th 2012 @ 8:47am
sheek said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Darwin,
You are too close to the bone with your comments, but regrettably on the money.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:06am
Dasher said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Hit the nail on the head there.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:35am
WQ said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Excellent summary Darwin Stubbie!
I posted a similar opinion last year about Cooper and Beale well prior to the RWC and got a roasting by Wallaby fans on the Roar. I agree whole heartedly with you these guys need to be balanced and told to sharpen these areas or risk their Test careers, instead they are overlooked and in Coopers case actually willing hidden!
June 26th 2012 @ 11:01am
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Darwin’s dead right.
I appreciate that the coach has his share of problems and his Number One priority is to win ever test (although thinking about it…maybe he’s not seeing it that way). But the point is that I for one would respect Dean’s a hell of a lot more if he dropped non performers and gave someone else a shot at fame.
June 26th 2012 @ 2:35pm
Wilson said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
I couldn’t agree more. Deans has his favourites and will not drop them under any circumstances. As such we don’t have a great deal of depth as he has not blooded the depth at top level. His inability to use a bench consistently has resulted in many players getting 10 minutes or less of game experience for the Wallabies. They are then often judged on these scraps of performance and deemed unworthy to get another go. How can any player who never gets in the groove or gets time to develop combinations be expected to challenge for positions within the Wallabies? Even if you have a great run on showing, you won’t knock a Deans Chosen One out of the starting 15. No matter how bad they play or how lacking they are in game fitness they will swan in and be protected in the media after by Deans. We think it is horrible to see, but can you imagine being the ones who should be given the opportunities based on form? How many Wallabies have been reduced to training partners and bag holders by Deans? What a waste of inform talent. The only time Deans gives someone a go is when there is an injury and he has no favourites left at his cafe table.
I think that the Wallabies are looking far from a strong side at the moment. I liken watching then to watching Freo play. You have no confidence that they will hold a lead or win a game until after they have done it. We have been lucky. Yes in the mix but lucky. The sheer number of errors flies in the face of a 2nd ranking. It is ugly rugby and I think we have the talent to be much better. But until Deans starts real competition for positions so that all players work and train hard for their opportunities, they will always just be ok. Do you really think that Cooper, Beale and JOC would be on the booze during season if they were working as hard as they could to insure selection? If they can play as well as they are acting like teenagers at leavers, can you imagine their potential if they had some in season discipline? But where is their motivation under Deans and O’Neill?
June 26th 2012 @ 3:38pm
Jutsie said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:38pm | Report comment
So how do u explain JOC being dropped for the final tri nations game and starting on the bench against italy or cooper being sent away from the wallaby squad to improve his match fitness? Beale was in top form in the super rugby so his selection in the last game was warranted.
We have deans knockers on one hand complaining about no respect for the wallaby jumper because guys like vuna are given a go at the top level then we have the same deans knockers saying that theres no depth in aus rugby because guys arent given a go at the top level.
We also have the same deans knockers that claim he favours chosen ones demanding JOC be given the no. 12 jersey, despite him displaying serious flaws in this position at the rebels, instead of Mccabe who has not once let his country down.
I’m half expecting an article blaming deans for the carbon tax.
June 26th 2012 @ 5:08pm
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
I could write one if you like Juts – though I care little for politics
June 26th 2012 @ 5:17pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 5:17pm | Report comment
The carbon tax was Deans’ fault.
I find a lot of the “experts’” opinions on the Deans matter laughable. It is so easy to pick flaws after the fact and that is exactly what happens. Half of the anti-Deans brigade are disgruntled NZ expats who are more than happy living on the Gold Coast or Bondi whilst driving around with a massive fern decal on their car. The other half are poor misguided Aussies blinded by the seemed knowledge such banal statements as “From the outside looking in the problem stems….” or “The difference between the All Blacks and the Wallabies is that when the All Blacks are unhappy with how they played they really mean it whereas with the Wallabies it’s lip service” carry.
The latter need to apply an objective outlook, the former should confine their comments to their area of expertise. Whatever that may be.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:01pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:01pm | Report comment
Well said.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:11pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:11pm | Report comment
Yeah, it’s not Deans’ fault. He went to Australia and the suck rubbed off on him.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:28pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:28pm | Report comment
Which half are you OJ? Can I guess?
June 26th 2012 @ 8:42pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:42pm | Report comment
I’m a special breed who realises Darwin Stubbie offered us a valid and insightful bit of criticism while your major contribution has been some rubbish about airplanes.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:03pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:03pm | Report comment
Well, Darwin did try hard, that’s true. You have to give him points for trying, prawn.
And you also have to agree that OJ is “special” – he said so himself!
June 26th 2012 @ 9:16pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:16pm | Report comment
Special and not an aviation enthusiast.
I see that from the outside looking in which would make me insightful too.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:29pm
ohtani's jacket said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
Oh look, it’s Mike. You burrowed your way out of Robbie’s backside Shouldn’t you be in the scrum thread explaining how Wales collapsed every scrum?
June 26th 2012 @ 9:32pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
That really cut to the bone OJ. Very hurtful.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:45pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
What are you doing here Mike? Didn’t you know this was OJ’s thread?
He is the only one with a valid opinion and it galls me that your opinions differ.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:36pm
Blue Blood said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
The comment by Wilson is largely true. The Brand situation was unique and action was finally taken. It does however happen too rarely. Cooper did not actual pass his medical so that is why he wasn’t in the playing list. It wasn’t about form. As for Beale, yes he had super form but it was on the other side of an injury. So he came fresh from injury to playing. I don’t agree with doing that. I know he got injured in the 45th minute but even before that he was well out of sorts.
Jutsie I’m not sure why you are lumping all your critiques of Deans knockers out on Wilson? He made some valid points.
I hear what you are saying and I did blame Drans for a speeding fine today, but some criticism is just. He oddly has favourities who rarely seem to go out of favour no matter how they perform. And many great super players have been over looked or given very limited opportunities by Deans. Not new claims and hard to argue I would have thought.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:31pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:31pm | Report comment
“I hear what you are saying and I did blame Drans for a speeding fine today”
Oh well I suppose that’s good enough – you can stay. But any more slackness in blaming the coach and we’ll send you off to [name of saffa blog deleted] to dodge rhino.
“He oddly has favourities who rarely seem to go out of favour no matter how they perform. And many great super players have been over looked or given very limited opportunities by Deans. Not new claims and hard to argue I would have thought.”
True they aren’t new, but the problem is that everyone has a different idea of who are the wrongly kept favourites and who has been unjustly overlooked. For example, on another thread some people are arguing that McCabe and Horne have performed very well and must be retained as the best centres pairing that Australia can produce, it would be a huge mistake to drop them etc. While other people think that McCabe and Horne should never be in the team. Either way, the coach will be blamed.
Same for backrowers – everyone’s got a different idea: Dennis, Palu, Higginbotham, Hooper, Robinson etc etc.
And it is very easy to argue that a player who has never been given a chance was the answer we needed – after all, that argument is impossible to ever prove wrong!
June 27th 2012 @ 12:13pm
Wilson said | June 27th 2012 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
Blue Blood has taken the essence of what I was saying. And Mike I agree that it is often subjective and well open to debate. What it frustrating is when players perform well and even better than the favourites I mentioned, and still don’t get the opportunities. I just want the Wallabies to be picked on form. The cream will always rise back to the top if they are still the best. But top players in Super level should be rewarded. And players who shone in mid week games for the Wallabies should be justly rewarded. Too often players have won man of the match in mid week games only to be left carrying the bags on the test days. This happened to Matt Hodgson twice but I am sure that there are many other examples that people can give.
June 27th 2012 @ 12:18pm
Mike said | June 27th 2012 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
I suppose another example of what you mean would be Michael Harris. Its a hard one.
June 27th 2012 @ 12:22am
jeznez said | June 27th 2012 @ 12:22am | Report comment
great post DS. Ross was a case in point – it was clear, it even became public – he was asked to hit more breakdowns. In Oz Dean Mumm struggled to get dropped………
June 26th 2012 @ 8:16am
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:16am | Report comment
We don’t need to work harder we just need to accept its war. If we look at the Australian teams that tasted consistent success over the Borg…I mean the All Blacks they were willing to take them on up front. If you win the battle up front, by bashing them time and time again the war takes care of itself. Australia must be willing. Its not rugby, that will occur after about 25 minutes. We need to bash them and bash them hard, put them off their game and then bash them again. All legally of course. We did it in Dublin in 1991. New Zealand were not in the game mentally after the first half. We did it again in Brisbane in 2011 and only through some unpunished infringements at the breakdown New Zealand managed to claw their way back into the game. Essentially they were gone.
So forget about the rugby and smash anything in black. The rugby and score line will take care of itself.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:29am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
I love the sentiment and it has a part but I believe the biggest thing this side is missing is brains, from the coaches and some of the players.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:47am
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:47am | Report comment
I think we can be too cerebral about these things mate. I think it was Kennedy the Hawthorn AFL coach who said “Don’t think, don’t hope…DO”!
We have all the talent and brains etc…we need the fever and the mongrel. Not just the acceptance that we have to be physical…we have to WANT to be physical. Lust for the battle and rejoice in your tormentors pain….then buy him a beer after full time.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:08am
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Post that link to the tri-nations win last year again UA. It’s not all doom and gloom – how good was Samo making DC, RM and AT look like school kids!
“Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they’ve been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It’s an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It’s a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
― Muhammad Ali
There certainly are some “small men” on this forum.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:33am
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
http://youtu.be/t2OeG_XH9g4
June 26th 2012 @ 12:51pm
Winston said | June 26th 2012 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
AT pretty much had one arm at that point.
June 26th 2012 @ 12:55pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
An the All Blacks wouldn’t have run at him if he were a Wallaby? AT should have been subbed, but Ted didn’t and paid the price.
June 26th 2012 @ 1:52pm
Richie (Melbourne) said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
I heard through the grapevine Samo is injured and out of selection hopes for Wallabies this year?
He did so well last year. A true blockbuster – it was great seeing him on the wing against Russia!
June 26th 2012 @ 2:05pm
Jutsie said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
I think I read somewhere that he has not been right form and fitness wise since the floods in fiji earlier in the year as his family members back in fiji was severely effected by the floods.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:38am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:38am | Report comment
I’m afraid I have to disagree with two things here:
‘I really dislike it when people say that Australia hasn’t got the cattle. Something I always liked about Alan Jones was he never saw problems with the talent, he saw the problems are with the teacher. In that sense he’s like Michel Thomas of rugby. It was refreshing to read Jones’ article a few weeks ago about how Australia has the talent to win. Why don’t we all have that attitude?’
Alan Jones would say that as it makes him look good, as if he did better with the same resources as Deans when in fact he had far superior resources. You may dislike it when people say Australia hasn’t got the cattle but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t true.
Deans is in fact the least immune coach in history and has been fiercely and ritually battered by Australian fans and many elements of the Australian media (though NOT all I should point out very clearly!). Jones did far worse than Deans with much better quality, inheriting the number one team in the world and ruining it. Deans inherited a team and a playing pool in crisis and has taken them to number two in the world.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:51am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:51am | Report comment
The Wallabies weren’t in crisis. The notion that Deans took over the Wallabies at #5 in the rankings and led them back up to #2 is entirely fallacious. They were at five due to the vagaries of IRB rankings after a RWC, if memory serves they had moved up to #4 before they’d even played a game.
The reality is Deans is a good trainer – I think he has a good rugby brain, helps players with skills, I do believe he’ll be able to improve the game of players like Timani and Tomane; but he is a poor coach. An international rugby coach is a managerial position and Deans absolutely sucks at tactical innovation, game day management, media engagement, long term planning, selections and the dozen other things that separates a professional team from a rugby club.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:03am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
RK we’ve been through this before so I’ll just repeat my position simply that any coach who takes such diabolical playing resources and takes a team to 2, even 4 frankly, is nothing short of a god.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:08am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:08am | Report comment
The fact you think Australia’s playing resources are diabolical shows just how deluded you are.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:11am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
No, it shows that you won’t face reality and think that Mccabe and Horne or Faiingaa and AAC are as good as SBW and Smith, or Nonu and Fruean, or Mcalister and Kahui.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:20pm
Jerry said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
What have Nonu, Fruean etc got to do with him taking them from 4 to 2? He didn’t have to get past the AB’s to get to 2.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:20am
Jutsie said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:20am | Report comment
As if the wallabies weren’t in a crisis after 2007!
After the 2011 WC the general feeling was disappointment but after the 2007 WC the general feeling amongst aus fans was devastation. I dont care what the rankings are and where and Im not trying to advocate deans as success but your dreaming if you think the 2005-2007 period wasn’t one of the lowest periods in the last 2 decades.
Deans hasnt been brilliant but he hasnt been terrible either.
Maybe you need to realise that its the All blacks and then daylight, the gap between the NH teams and the wallabies and Boks is not as large as we in the South like to make out, to expect us to beat these teams in a convincing manner on a consistent basis is just arrogance on your part.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:41am
Frank O'Keeffe said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:41am | Report comment
Jones had no resources!
The first thing he did was pick Steve Cutler out of the scrap heap. Cutler was told he’d never play for Australia again, and Jones told him he would be the first person picked in his side. He turned Cutler into the dominant line-out exponent of the 80s.
He did similar things to Bill Campbell. Campbell wasn’t was even a starter for Queensland, but Jones picked him and Australia had two awesome locks who could win a glut of ball.
Tom Lawton was playing for Queensland B. He was told he was too big to be a hooker.
Jones dropped Ross Reynolds and Peter Lucas, so he could get more height into the line-out with David Codey. That was a brave call not taking Luco to Britain in 1984.
Jones dropped his two Manly players, on form, for Tuynman and Farr-Jones. Farr-Jones was playing for Sydney University in the B-grade competition.
Jones also groomed young players as well, like Andrew Leeds and Brian Smith.
Alan Jones is like Exhibit A when it comes to creating a team out of nothing. He was a man with a vision! Alan Jones is actually exactly what I’m thinking about in this column – a guy with a vision who can make the Wallabies overachieve.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:54am
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Well said Frank – I also think the legacy of the Jones era is he got the team to believe in itself.
June 26th 2012 @ 1:45pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Can I trot out my “impossible is nothing” quote again?
June 26th 2012 @ 1:57pm
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
Yes please…
June 26th 2012 @ 8:30pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:30pm | Report comment
I’ll save it for tomorrow UA. It will chime in nicely when you throw in last year’s Suncorp NZ/Wallabies game. I’ll never get sick of either!
June 26th 2012 @ 2:42pm
Scot Free said | June 26th 2012 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Yeah, please do that, EG, because your positivity is rare and welcome.
Almost every WB “fan” here and on other blogs is saying “just because
we beat the Welsh doesn’t mean we’re world beaters!”. Well, DERR.
Talk about preaching to the converted. I haven’t read one single post
where someone is over-confident of our chances. Not one. In fact, there
appears to be almost no faith in the WB’s at all. How do you think these
pages would look if Australia had lost the series? Exactly the same?
Go the Wallabies!!!
June 27th 2012 @ 8:02pm
ThelmaWrites said | June 27th 2012 @ 8:02pm | Report comment
Frank,
Alan Jones coached in the amateur era. If you didn’t please your coach or the big guns in rugby, you don’t get some swell job from the cronies.
I remember the respect Dr Darveniza or John Freedman would get in conversations. Now Wallabies are a dime a dozen.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:43am
sheek said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:43am | Report comment
Frank,
The reason why Deans is safe with a worse win-loss record than Eddie Jones, I suppose, is because many fans (not to mention the ARU) have come to the realisation that well, we just don’t have the overall talent & skill level. In any case, it’s an argument I’ve been pushing.
No point sacking Deans when his successor, & the one after that, are bound to face many of the same problems.
What the ARU needs to do, is attack the root of the problem, not treat the ailment. Provide the cure. We need more players & better coaches. We need better comp structures & clearer pathways.
We need inclusiveness, which seems to be a missing ingredient in Australian rugby these days. There seems to be a massive disconnect between fans on the one hand, & players, coaches & administrators on the other.
But the ARU has no money, we hear. Well, not to the same extent as the other codes. Well, in the interim, the Wallabies, Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies, Rebels & Force need to play a more positive, compelling brand of rugby, in oder to bring more players, fans, sponsors, exposure & revenue into the game.
Last Saturday provided the Wallabies with a wonderful opportunity to thank those nearly 43,000 fans who attended the SFS afternoon test, by producing a cracking display.
They declined the opportunity.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:06am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:06am | Report comment
sheek I don’t want to open Pandora’s box but there is the obvious question of whether rugby wishes to embrace a broader social range, schools etc..that the NRL and AFL are quite happy to. Maybe the ARU just don’t want anyone below the middle class from playing their game.
You can base a code around an elite throughout Australia but in the end in competition against similiar codes if it doesn’t want the masses.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:15am
sheek said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:15am | Report comment
KPM,
The answer to your query, at least on the face of it, is – NO – the ARU is happy to basically maintain the status quo of the past 100 years.
But as we know, professionalism has changed the landscape, & while we’ve witnessed some significant progress in Australian rugby (2 major provinces to 5 in 16 years), we’re not keeping pace with the rapid change.
It always seems to be just out of our grasp…..
June 26th 2012 @ 9:24am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
sheek I was planning to write an article about this but haven’t got round to it. Scotland got the point where they were being so continually beaten and had no crowds for their two franchise teams that they had to bite the bullet and go outside the public (meaning private there) schools to increase their talent school (there remains the unbelievable figure that no one from a state school in by far the biggest city, Glasgow, has ever represented Scotland). The results of this effort to move into the state sector (secondary schools) were quite amazing, although it took a crisis to bring them to it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/8762282.stm
June 26th 2012 @ 3:19pm
Go_the_Wannabe's said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
I’ve banged on this drum for awhile now…AFL and NRL are in nearly every public school…why isn’t the ARU?
And don’t tell me they don’t have the money. They had enough to buy broken down leauge players.
The only reason can be that the elite part of the ARU is happy for rugby to remain a closed shop…join us if you can! seems to be the brave dare.
If they don’t get into public schools like the Scots did, not only will rugby be the 4th football code in this country, it may find itself behind other minority sports in popularity like netball.
Also, bring back running rugby while I’m at it. No entertain, no game.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:34pm
El Gamba said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
Thanks to the way Gillard has been running the country a great many of the previous upper middle class will now have to send their kids to public schools. She wears her Western Bulldogs scarf but perhaps it is Rugby that she has done the favour for?
June 26th 2012 @ 8:03pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:03pm | Report comment
Excellent point KPM (and Sheek and GtW)
June 26th 2012 @ 8:52am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:52am | Report comment
“No point sacking Deans when his successor, & the one after that, are bound to face many of the same problems.”
Yes there is. The only metric that matters is does the coach get the best out of his players. Deans can’t, he hasn’t. Why would you assume that someone else won’t be able to coax better performances out of the players?
June 26th 2012 @ 9:07am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
RK it does seem amazing to me that you can consider the options available to Australia at centre and not think there is a problem with the player pool.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:10am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Good coaches get the best out of what they have. Poor ones (Deans) don’t. And people like you excuse the mediocrity of Deans’ Wallabies by simply complaining that we don’t have the best player in the world in every position.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:12am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:12am | Report comment
RK how on earth can you think Australia has good enough players to beat the All Blacks? Compare the centres available last year:
Wallabies: Mccabe, Horne, Faiingaa, AAC
All Blacks: SBW, Nonu, Smith, Fruean, Kahui, Mcalister.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:36am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Considering your continual dumping on Smith I am surprised to see him listed there.
Your problem is that you are too hide-bound in your thinking.
Australia’s best backline would run Cooper at 10, Lealiifano (injured so replace him with Barnes) at 12, Tapuai at 13 (he’ll be back for the rugby championship), Ioane at 11 and O’Connor at 14 with Beale at 15.
10 and 12 both have superb passing games to unlock attacking opportunities, not to mention the ability to run themselves. Both 12 and 13 are defensively strong. 13 is also a good passer. 11 is a power finisher. 14 is a creative finisher. And 15 is creative finisher capable of being a playmaker.
Why would you use McCabe or Horne in the backline? AAC would be on the bench (split 5-2) thanks to his versatility and AAC or Fainga’a could cover at 13 if Taps isn’t back. But Australia plays better without the deadweight of unimaginative crash ball merchants at 12.
You don’t fight the power of SBW with power. You run rings around him and trust your defense to tackle him (don’t forget that Tapuai has kept him quiet every time they’ve met).
June 26th 2012 @ 9:43am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:43am | Report comment
RK that’s not the point. I’m just comparing the quality of players available.
Last year Deans had only those four players to choose from while Henry had an amazing array of outstanding centres. That just shows the difference in the player pool. Henry’s cattle were infinitely superior. New Zealand’s are infinitely superior. Until that problem is solved then Australia will struggle.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:51am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
No the point is that Deans took a guy who didn’t play centre and put him there for the national team.
Are you surprised thet the Wallabies struggled? That is a coaching howler. Perpetuated by no-one but Deans.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:01am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
So Horne would have been better?
June 26th 2012 @ 8:59pm
Ben S said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:59pm | Report comment
‘So Horne would have been better?’
Oops. The only reason Beale got a game under Deans was because Horne pulled out of a Test against England through injury,
June 26th 2012 @ 9:38am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
KPM – I have mentioned this on other threads. The centres may not be the greatest attacking threats of all time individually. However if they were COACHED to work together then the sum of the parts would be so much greater.
Why is Beale and Sharpe can do a run around move on the fly yet the backs as a unit have done diddly squat since getting together 4 weeks ago? I mean this is basic, basic stuff yet we are not even seeing it during the matches until Beale and Sharpe (who have no combination to speak of).
Its just an example of what a good coach should be doing to improve the team and its performance.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:45am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:45am | Report comment
J2 you cannot turn Faiingaa, Mccabe or Horne into good international attacking centres. You just can’t. There’s no solution. However well they work together their fundamental lack of quality will mean they can never in a million years be good attacking centres at this level. It just won’t happen.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:48am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Bullsh$t, read what I wrote…
June 26th 2012 @ 9:51am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:51am | Report comment
What you wrote shows an inability to face the truth, unless you also believe lead can be turned to gold.
Your idea that a player with a limited ability can somehow be turned into an amazing player is very odd.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:05am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
Which is exactly your problem. You have lead so you whinge that you don’t have gold. You can get a perfectly serviceable solution with lead, you just need to have a good enough coach in charge to put it together.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:41am
Justin2 said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:41am | Report comment
Can you not read what I wrote, you cannot be that stupid can you?
I wrote “The centres may not be the greatest attacking threats of all time individually. However if they were COACHED to work together then the sum of the parts would be so much greater.”
So this DOES NOT mean they will become amazing players individually necessarily but that they COULD become a much improved unit with SOME decent coaching.
I cant believe that is a concept that is so difficult to understand!
June 26th 2012 @ 10:46am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
If the sum of their parts was several times the worth as individuals maybe, but it’s pretty hard to make two players add up to a multiple of the sum of their very low quality parts.
And stop being rude.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:12am
Riccardo said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:12am | Report comment
Justin is right KPM.
His argument is that the sum of the parts is greater than the whole when clever coaching and man-management is effective which is essentially the basic premise for any good head coach.
The fact that Deans continues to struggle in this area is no secret and at the end of the day he is accountable.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:20am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Riccardo that would be reasonable if the teams were remotely comparable in talent. Then an excellent coach could take a weaker but still ok assembly of players and make them outperform a better array of talent.
But when the quality is too different it’s impossible.
Compare last year:
Mccabe, Horne, Faiingaa
SBW, Nonu, Smith, Kahui, Fruean, Mcalister.
That’s not a moderate gap in talent, that’s a gap as wise as the Andromeda galaxy or the universe itself. However you coach them and combine their parts to make a greater whole it’s simply impossible to make those first three come anywhere near the stellar options New Zealand have.
June 26th 2012 @ 7:03pm
Kuruki said | June 26th 2012 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
I would think McCabe and Horne are better off developing basic skills and improving their arsenal at a lower level then International. Forget combinations, these guys need to develop their personal games before they are going to develop anything worthwhile as a combination.
One of the most basic skills of ball thru the hands is almost unheard of for these two. Let alone running cut out plays and skip passing.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:16am
sheek said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Red Kev,
That’s fine – sack Deans – as long as you understand that’s not the root problem bedeviling Australian rugby.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:28am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Rugby in Australia should be aiming to be the number one code.
However in the meantime, to let a mediocre coach run around making a mockery of the Wallabies is hardly going to help matters. On the other hand a good coach will help matters.
Deans is not the root problem, but he sure as hell isn’t part of the solution. We can get better out of the Wallabies despite the “root problem bedevilling Australian rugby”; Deans has shown that he is not the man to get that better performance.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:36am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:36am | Report comment
‘Deans is not the root problem’ What is then according to you RK?
June 26th 2012 @ 9:46am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:46am | Report comment
Not being part of the setup I could not say for certain but I believe the root problem is cultural. There is a level of entitlement the establishment (both officials and players) seem to have.
The ARU board does not want to do the hard work of pushing rugby union to the number one code in Australia – the “pass mark” of making the semi-final of the RWC shows this well enough. The unwillingness to invest in a level of competition to exist below Super Rugby is another example of this general malaise. This attitude permeates Australian Rugby through to the Super Rugby franchises who accept mediocrity (none more so than the Waratahs).
I believe Deans exhibits a shocking lack of professionalism in his management of the Wallabies that hurts the national team – and being the most visible part of the ARU to the general public that is a problem.
June 26th 2012 @ 9:49am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 9:49am | Report comment
RK I’m sure Deans is a consummate professional. Whether you think he’s a good coach or not I’m sure he’s very professional.
As for how the ARU manage the code, how would you push the code to be number one? At the moment it has a finite number of players, far fewer than the NRL and AFL, a finite number of teams, far fewer than the NRL and AFL.
Success of the Wallabies is not enough to change these facts.
How would you increase the number of teams and players if you were the ARU?
June 26th 2012 @ 10:02am
Red Kev said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:02am | Report comment
No he’s not, the fact he showed up to the Wallabies job with no support coaching structure is indicitave of that. He is a trainer, not a coach. The managerial, strategy and tactics part of a Head Coaching job for a national team is more important than the nitty gritty of on field training sessions.
If I were the Wallaby head coach I’d hire Deans as a trainer. He’d be good at that job.
If I were in charge of the ARU, without looking at the finances it is hard to say, but the first step I’d look at taking would be to force every franchise to field a second XV. Whether I started it by putting them into their local competitions (Shute Shield etc) or just played them before the Super Rugby matches in local derbies I’m not certain but there needs to be a stepping stone somewhere.
Exposure is an issue too. You’d have to put a lot of effort in getting something onto free to air television.
Investment at grass roots level needs to be done, but the actual mechanics of it would be tricky, Australia’s biggest problem is one of population density and distance.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:23am
kingplaymaker said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:23am | Report comment
RK I give you credit for giving your ideas on how to solve the underlying problems of the game if you were the ARU.
Too many posters simply state problems without saying what they would do instead but you have done so which is impressive.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:18am
Riccardo said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Good post Kev.
Spot on too IMO.
I’ve always thought you’re too harsh on Deans but the combined entitlement issue has legs.
So does nepotism IMO. Just ask any Tahs fan…
June 26th 2012 @ 3:28pm
Cody said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:28pm | Report comment
Deans amazingly keeps making basic mistakes, especially on his use of the bench, he just does not get it. Also he has to be held accountable for the existing culture which has seen the likes of JOC, Beale, Cooper become the “senior player”s who think they are untouchable (because they are) and can strut around, get into off-field scuffles (think Paris, Brisbane) without fear nor favour that they will be disciplined. Everyone seems to pander to this young arrogant “brand”. The forwards need to pull these show ponies into line (a Roarer suggested a good clip over the ear in a recent article), especially if Deans and Co. wont. The team culture will not improve if these young blokes are given free reign.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:00am
Frank O'Keeffe said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Bruce mate,
Deans has made some terrible decisions as coach.
* Playing Burgess in 2009 (his worst mistake).
* Trying Giteau at five-eighth… Barnes was the obvious incumbent to me, even in 2009 when he wasn’t as good.
* Sticking with Baxter one season too long. In 2009 he realized he couldn’t get any mileage out of him.
* Fielding a hideously small backline in 2009 that got monstered.
* Moving Mortlock to 12, when he was never a 12.
* I’m also not sure, but Australia were the best or second best defensive team in the world when Muggleton was defensive coach. The Wallaby defense went backwards at a rate of knots in 2010. Deans is defense coach.
* Trying Cooper-Giteau, when they were a terrible 10-12 combination.
* Playing Cooper last year in the semi-final after a heinous performance against South Africa. And how did Berrick Barnes play against Wales last year? Great! It’s only now Deans realizes Cooper needs to improve in some areas before he plays again!
These are all management issues that can be fixed.
The only time I felt good about Robbie Deans was briefly in 2008 when the Wallabies won in Sydney, and in 2010 when the Wallabies showed some exciting rugby in South Africa.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:06am
Frank O'Keeffe said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:06am | Report comment
And with the exception of bring TPN on for Moore late in the game, I generally don’t like how Deans uses his subs.
I’ll never understand how people don’t criticize Deans. He’s not it.
Honestly I know he’s horribly biased, but my buddy Dan (ohtnai’s jacket) is pretty much on the money when he talks about Deans being overrated.
June 26th 2012 @ 10:13am
Colin N said | June 26th 2012 @ 10:13am | Report comment
How about changing the Australian game plan midway through the World Cup!? To me, that was a bit of a shocker!
June 26th 2012 @ 11:14am
Uncle Argyle said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Greatest disaster – Timana Tahu at 12 v the Springborg.
June 26th 2012 @ 11:56am
sheek said | June 26th 2012 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Frank,
I accept all (most of) this.
But I feel for Ewen McKenzie or whoever else takes over from Deans when the structural faults remain in place.
Link (or whoever else) might benefit from an experienced lineup, & some other talented blood coming through, but he will still have to coach the Wallabies behind a backdrop of inefficient domestic structures.
June 26th 2012 @ 3:23pm
Go_the_Wannabe's said | June 26th 2012 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
You forgot non-existent usage of bench players, losing to Ireland in the WC, not having a back up no.7 in the WC squad etc.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:10pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
Frank, on every one of those issues, if Deans had done things your way he would have copped ferocious criticism from all quarters. Everyone’s got an opinion.
June 26th 2012 @ 8:04pm
Mike said | June 26th 2012 @ 8:04pm | Report comment
“Why would you assume that someone else won’t be able to coax better performances out of the players?”
Why wouldn’t we?
At least, that’s what I first wrote. But I realise reading your comments further Red Kev, that you aren’t just a one-dimensional Deans-basher, but have some pretty sound critique of the whole structure of Australian Rugby. My apologies.