Was Magic better than Michael?
By Ryan O'Connell, 12 Jul 2012 Ryan O'Connell is a Roar Expert
Was Los Angeles Laker Magic Johnson a better basketballer than the Chicago Bulls’ Michael Jordan? Amongst basketball fans, and even non-fans, the question would almost seem sacrilegious to the legendary Jordan.
There is a reason Jordan has the unofficial nickname of ‘GOAT’ – as in, ‘Greatest Of All Time’.
However, the debate over who is the better player is not as definitive as you think, and has been raised again due to US journalist Jason Whitlock suggesting that Magic was the only player that could potentially rival Michael Jordan as the greatest ever.
Likewise, the recent NBA documentary about the 1992 ‘Dream Team’ has fuelled discussion around the topic. The movie showed never-seen-before footage of Team USA’s scrimmages, and it was interesting to hear basketball experts analyse the training games, and conclude that it may have been the first time anyone can remember Jordan not being the unequivocal best player on the court, such was Magic’s control of the games.
Magic was easily pegged as the better player when he retired in 1991. However, at that time, Jordan had won one championship, and Magic had five. Jordan peeled off five more victories to surpass Magic not just in championships, but in status as the best player.
But was Magic really a worthy challenger to Jordan’s crown?
I’m not a fan of statistics, but let’s start with both individual’s career ones anyway.
Magic averaged 19.5 points, 7.2 rebounds, 11.2 assists, and 1.9 steals.
Jordan averaged 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.4 steals.
Jordan would appear to have the clear edge there, primarily due to his high scoring average.
However, it was interesting to note in the book ‘When the Game was Ours’, that Magic stated he could have easily averaged 30 points per game if he wanted to, but he preferred to pass the ball. In all honesty, it’s not hard to imagine Magic averaging 30 points if he truly desired.
Considering Magic averaged 11 assists per game, if he instead kept the ball and shot himself on at least half of those passing instances, he would have taken 10 more shots. With a 50% lifetime field goal shooting percentage, Magic would have therefore scored roughly 10 more points per game, taking his average to 29.5.
And that’s without taking into account that some of those field goals would have been three pointers.
Additionally, as anyone who’s played basketball will tell you, when you are more aggressive with your scoring, you’ll get some foul calls and get to the free throw line.
Seeming as Magic’s career success rate on free throws was 90%, you could probably add a couple of points or more to his tally.
Suddenly Magic is averaging an extra 12 points per game.
Magic: 31.5 points, 7.2 rebounds, 5.5 assists, 1.9 steals.
Jordan: 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists, 2.4 steals.
Whilst that’s extremely hypothetical, and there is absolutely no question that Jordan was a much more potent scorer, it does prove a point that when you consider Magic’s high assist numbers, their statistics do very little to separate the two players.
Yet Magic didn’t need inflated scoring figures; his overall statistics were brilliant anyway.
In any case, numbers never truly reflected what Magic brought to a basketball team. He was all about winning.
Due to the HIV virus he contracted, Magic was forced into premature retirement in 1991, whilst he was still in his prime at 31 years of age. That year, he averaged 19 points, 12 assists and 7 rebounds. Those are crazy numbers, and are bang-on his career averages. He also led the Lakers to the NBA Finals, was nominated onto the All-NBA first team, and finished second to Michael Jordan in MVP voting.
Whilst Laker injuries and the ascension of Jordan and the Chicago Bulls prevented him from winning the title that year, his numbers, his team’s performance, and his MVP votes clearly indicate that Magic was still very much in his prime, and had plenty of great basketball left in him.
In fact, one of Magic’s most unbelievable achievements was coming out of retirement five years later, and playing the last 32 games of the 1995-96 season. Playing as a back-up power forward, Magic averaged 15 points, 7 assists and 6 rebounds in 29 minutes per game. Playing at such an elite level after five years off, and registering those statistics, is just absurd, and indicates just how great Magic was.
I have no hesitation in saying Magic would have won at least one more championship if he wasn’t forced into early retirement. Yes, it’s hypothetical. Yes it’s impossible to guarantee that he would have won another ring. Whatever, I’m doing it. He was that good, and he was a winner.
That would have drawn him even with Jordan on championship rings. In fact, he probably would have taken one off Jordan, leaving the Bull behind on five.
Yet this is where hypotheticals prove almost pointless – Jordan almost certainly wouldn’t have taken his baseball sabbatical if Magic was still playing and pushing him to higher greatness. As such, you can only judge what is written down in history as fact: Jordan won six titles, Magic five.
Where Jordan really separated himself from Magic is on defence. Jordan was perhaps the best defender of all-time at his position. Magic, to put it kindly, was not. Whilst nowhere near the liability that he’s been historically remembered as, the truth is that Magic was not an elite level defender.
When you weigh up the MVP trophies, Finals MVP awards, all-NBA nominations, statistics, championships, all their respective accolades, and even the memories of their play, it’s evident that Michael Jordan was better than Magic Johnson.
But it’s a lot closer than you think, and could have been even closer if Magic wasn’t forced into early retirement.
Ryan is an ex-representative basketballer who shot too much, and a (very) medium pace bowler. He's been with The Roar as an expert since February 2011, has written for the Seven Network and NBA Down Under, and been a regular on ABC radio. Ryan tweets from @RyanOak.
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July 12th 2012 @ 2:35am
gary said | July 12th 2012 @ 2:35am | Report comment
I have been a big lakers fan I grew up watching Magic and this comparison its hard to say who the best ever is i mean magic played every position and lets not get ahead of our self jordan didnt win until pippen came and when the bulls faced the lakers in that championship the one game they lost jordan was on def against majic and jordan stayed in foul trouble they changed up the next game and put pippen on magic jordan was a better scorer and maybe a better defender but magic was a better all around player and magic made players around him better
July 14th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Mr Johnson said | July 14th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
How can you say Magic was “a better all around player ” if he was closer to being one demesional than what Jordan was? That dimesion being offense. Jordan was far more two dimensional than Magic therefore better allround. You mean he was better all-round offensively.
November 30th 2012 @ 9:04am
You're wrong said | November 30th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
How can you say Magic was 1 dimensional when in all of his seasons he averaged over 1.3 steals a game, leading the league in steals with 3.4 one season and 2.7 the very next. Magic was and forever will be the best all around player to play basketball. No doubt Jordan will forever be the best scorer, but when Earvin stepped on the court it was Magic baby
July 12th 2012 @ 3:01am
Seriously, Who says Oi? said | July 12th 2012 @ 3:01am | Report comment
I think that Jordan is definitely the greatest of all time. Magic has expressed the same feeling many times over the years.
Are those MJ stats including his Wizards years? I don’t think it’s fair to include them.
Anyone who saw them play game in, game out can see that Jordan’s scoring ability is unparalleled. Also, those stats don’t really reflect defensive dominance, an area where Jordan was far superior. There’s a reason that MJ was initially regarded as the best one-on-one player. He had the most amazingly complete talent and athleticism. He needed no others to help him prove that.
Magic played the point guard role almost to perfection, but he used a legendary cast of Lakers team mates.
Having watched Jordan for his whole career, I believe that he had the talent to be the all time leader in any of total points, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks. However, he was just doing what it took for him to win and didn’t care for stats. I believe that he’s still the most efficient player in the history of the game(Could you check up on that?).
July 12th 2012 @ 4:44am
Rugby Realist said | July 12th 2012 @ 4:44am | Report comment
i agree. You did not offer the same variables for Jordan, such as if you discount his return for the Wizards his career average for points per game was over 32, and other stats would also have been higher i am sure.
It would be also interesting to see statistics for NBA playoffs, including MVP awards, points per game, assists and some defensive stats.
Both were great players, but a much longer article would be needed to even begin comparing the two
July 12th 2012 @ 9:11am
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
True, a longer article is required, but it was long enough already!
In terms of playoff stats, both player’s averages actually go up, which illustrates their greatness – they got better when it mattered.
Fair point, in terms of including Jordan’s Wizards averages.
In terms of the most efficient player, it depends on your ‘definition’. Is it highest PER? Best shooting percentages? Best all-round stats, etc.
July 12th 2012 @ 5:11am
Purple Shag said | July 12th 2012 @ 5:11am | Report comment
It’s an interesting discussion. Glad to hear that Lebron’s name is not mentioned anywhere as it is clearly the GOAT that is up for debate and not simply Magic vs Jordan. Better to assess LBJ when his time is up but he has potential to get there. They were both very different players and both had strong supporting casts for their successes.
That Dream Time doco you mentioned is gold (intended). It’s on youtube in full and is really worth the hour & change. If the debate boiled down to those USA practice scrimmages, then it would appear that Jordan has Magic well and truly covered. It was also appear that John Stockton probably sat next to me on a plane once and I didn’t even notice.
A statistical comparison is always a good starting point, but if that is the crux of any argument then Oscar Robinson’s first 7 seasons stand alone. Had he had an affinity for baseball or caught a horrible illness then his career stats would have stood alone at the top of the heap. But as everyone knows it is more than stats and best ever is always tough to call. So many great players… I’m going with Vinnie Johnson. The Microwave – best ever.
July 12th 2012 @ 5:20am
Rugby Realist said | July 12th 2012 @ 5:20am | Report comment
also worth thinking about someone like big Wilt Chamberlain. He dominated like few other players, but there is a tendency not to get behind these large power based players in the same way as an all round ball player. It is a similar issue in alot of sports analysis
July 13th 2012 @ 10:42am
Reece Jordan said | July 13th 2012 @ 10:42am | Report comment
This is a really tough one. Coming into the article, I thought you were crazy but it was some excellent food for thought and one that got me thinking about the argument. Magic and MJ are two players I wasn’t around to see myself, but have watched more footage of than any current NBA player. Magic Johnson will always be my personal all-time favourite, being a Lakers fan and a fan of Showtime basketball, but I still give the edge to Michael in this debate. I don’t know whether Jordan’s superiority can be described with statistics or even fleshed out analysis – there was just something that when you watched him get the ball in the closing minutes you’d back him to make a full court shot, he was not human when the game was on the line. Magic was fantastic too, don’t get me wrong, and I do think he is second-to-one, but he didn’t have that same quality that Michael had.
July 12th 2012 @ 5:43am
Johnno said | July 12th 2012 @ 5:43am | Report comment
-Some facts on this debate:
-Pure talant for mine the 3 most naturally talented basketball players ever have been Shaq and Le Bron and wilt chamberlain.
-But each generations gets stronger so to say le Bron is the best ever is wrong , 1 has to judge how dominant the player was in there era. For example serena williams of course is better than martina navratalova , and Nadal and Novac and Fed are better than Connors and Bjorg and mcenroe but 1 has to judge who was the most dominant in there era. Like saying is Usain Bolt better than Carl Lewis too.
-Le Bron is only 27 we will know that awnser if Le Bron is no 1 GOAT around year 2020 when Le Bron is say 35 and maybe retired.
-For me some facts on Majic and Jordan:
-Pure shooting ability and shooting moves Jordan. Defence ability Jordan, but Majic was taller and Jordan struggled to defend him 1 on 1. As shown in the 1991 series. Pippen moved to mark Majic but didn’t do much better if at all better another myth that pippin controlled Majic, and Majic had to deal in that series with basically no james worthy, or byran scott . He magic was phenomenal in that series.
-Team Player Majic wins hands down. Majic for those that may not know about the NBL in the 90′s was a Rob Rose type player, very sound in every depratment of basketball. And Majic’s vision in reading a game was amazing , he was 6’9 with amazing passing skills, so tough to mark a 6’9 man with the skills and passing ability of Majic. it’s liking marking up on Jonah Lomu in rugby very very tough.
-Majic was a team player and made those around him better. None of the bulls players stats went up or down with Jordan there. So basically no players became better with Jordan unlike say Majic or say Zidane in soccer. MJ was a 1 man band basically who could carry a team on his own Maradonna style, or christian ronaldo, rather than a Majic or a Zidane.
-Pippen had his best season stat wise when Majic left and the bulls had there best regular season record when Jordan left. He was not that well liked jordan by his team mates including pippen, where as Majic was loved by everyone. Pippen didn’t want to play for the bulls when jordan came back and jordan would only come back if Pippen agreed to stay. Money talks so Pippen stayed. But Majic also had great back up as did Larry Bird and now Le Bron too. Majic had james worthy, who for those that don’t know was the star at north carolina not MJ as many popular media say. Another jordan myth.
-In 1989 Bulls coach Doug collins played MJ at point guard with a lot of success. But Jordan moved back too shooting guard , as marketing wise he would be able to make more money via endorsements, . SO basically Jordan was in my opinion and many others a ball hog, and his team mates thought so too. Remember no bulls that played with MJ stats went up, or became better players. Another Jordan myth. And the proof is there in all these players stats playing with MJ and not playing with MJ.
-Aussy luke lonely always remained an average centre in the NBA , at Phonix, minnesota, and at chicago.
-Majic says Jordan was better but that is for the cameras , just as brian lara always says tendulkar is better, or Nadal always says how humbled he is to beat Fed and how great he is. It is all for the cameras. But Majic always also said and made the point , in a charming way him and MJ were mates, he always said when game time comes on no lovey dovey or friendly attitude on the court and he never was friendly to MJ on the court, he was his enemy and that was that. And he told his team mates no looking up to MJ.
-He used to give Isiah Thomas a pre match kiss on the check Majic french style , but not to MJ or larry bird who is Majic’s best friend just about.
-Isiah thomas did fall out with MJ and Majic and was removed from the dream team 92 squad. Big deal at the time, as Isiah was a championship player and had a huge rivalry with MJ.
-And Shaq’s NBA grand final state were amazing matched by no one, not MJ no one they are phenomenal here they are for the 2000 series.
2000 nba finals stats
game 1 43pts 19 rbs 4 ast
game 2 40- 24 rbs 4 asts
game 3 33pts 13 rbs 2 stls 2 blks
game 4 36 pts 21 rbs 2 blks
game 5 35pts 11rbs 2blks 2 stls
game 6 41 pts 12 rbs 4 blokes
-Incredible if that is not dominance i don’t know what is, and wilt’s chamberlain stat’s are amazing too, and anyone who makes excuses about oh wilt was so much taller that is total nonsense. There were tall player’s in wilt’s time, less teams too, so less dilution of talant, and tall players in today’s modern era, eg Manute Bol, Shawn bradley , Gheorghe Mureșan, were very average NBA players but were all 7’5 or 7’6 . And Shaq was better than big Yao Ming too who is 7’5 or 7’6. So wilt and bill russell are right up there as is the great oscar robertson.
-Bill russell won 11 NBA titles over 12 years in the 50′s and late 60′s for the boston celtinc incredible. Best defender ever Bill russell followed by Jordan I’d say or a young Jordan. Ron Harper was a better defender than MJ from 95 to 98 at the Bulls.
Majic better than Jordan but only just. Just the height factor 6’9 over 6’6 and Majic could use it. He played centre often and power forwad. 1980 a 21 yr old Majic filling in for kareem in the 1980 NBA grand finals had a great game as centre.
July 12th 2012 @ 10:07am
mushi said | July 12th 2012 @ 10:07am | Report comment
Interesting you point to height and yet in “height” stats (Block and Reobund rate) Jordan out does Magic.
July 12th 2012 @ 10:52am
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 10:52am | Report comment
I’m not sure how naturally talented Shaq was. I guess it depends on your definition of ‘naturally talented’ though. For mine, I would call Shaq physically gifted, but he wasn’t a natural basketballer that’s for sure. He was strong, rather than talented.
July 12th 2012 @ 2:13pm
mushi said | July 12th 2012 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
I think that is harsh. Shaq couldn’t shoot sure but outside of that I think he read the game very well and was a vastly under rated passer of the ball.
July 12th 2012 @ 2:58pm
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
I don’t deny that, but I don’t think he was the prototypical ‘natural’ basketballer, was he?
July 12th 2012 @ 3:19pm
mushi said | July 12th 2012 @ 3:19pm | Report comment
When you look at simmons top 5 is there a protoptype. Russel / Bird / Magic / Jordan / Kareem.
Outside of all being good each was a different player.
On the “natural” he read the game like one. Sure his size allowed him to get away with things but I think Shaq’s actual basketabll IQ gets unfairly downgraded
July 12th 2012 @ 3:39pm
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
I think I’m getting confused between ‘natural’ and high IQ. Shaq certainly had a high basketball IQ.
July 12th 2012 @ 7:41am
Boom said | July 12th 2012 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Simple question borrowed from Bill Simmon’s. If an alien race invaded Earth an offered humanity its survival based on a winner takes all game of hoops, who would you want the ball in the hands of?
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July 12th 2012 @ 9:07am
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Haha! I love Bill, but he’s such a one-eyed Boston fan, he’d probably say Larry Bird!
Boom, what are these aliens like at defending the low post? Maybe we want to pick Duncan or McHale? What’s their perimeter defense like? Wingspan, etc? (I’m joking, of course. We’d still pick Jordan to defend our world.)
To be fair though, when Bill posed that question in his book, he chose a whole team, and Magic started at the point alongside Jordan. Which illustrates my point that Magic is right behind Jordan in terms of greatness.
July 12th 2012 @ 10:08am
mushi said | July 12th 2012 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Hmm except bill put Russell and Kareem ahead of him in the same book
July 12th 2012 @ 10:48am
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Yes Mushi, but my comparison was just Magic and Jordan, not all-time status. And of the modern day players, Bill himself had Magic as the closest to Jordan.
July 12th 2012 @ 12:10pm
Big Steve said | July 12th 2012 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
wasnt jordan in a buggs bunny movie with this exact plot?
Im pretty sure they would have won so does that make hime the best?
July 12th 2012 @ 1:55pm
mushi said | July 12th 2012 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
One of the opponents was Shawn Bradley. No way does an alien civilisation intelligent enough for space travel and “talent capture” technology choose Shawn Bradley.
July 12th 2012 @ 6:41pm
Nicholashugo said | July 12th 2012 @ 6:41pm | Report comment
What he said, i am impressed
July 12th 2012 @ 8:20am
ohtani's jacket said | July 12th 2012 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Bill Russell is the greatest basketball player of all-time.
July 12th 2012 @ 9:04am
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 9:04am | Report comment
Ohtani, you’ll notice I deliberately stayed away from proclaiming who owns that title! I just made it about who was better between the two MJ’s!
Russell’s 11 rings may a very persuasive case.
July 12th 2012 @ 8:23am
Boom said | July 12th 2012 @ 8:23am | Report comment
@Johnno – Shaq’s game 6 box score was “game 6 41 pts 12 rbs 4 blokes”…?
That’s some stat line – and one I thought that was more associated with Wilt the Stilt – a notorious player in the era of free love….
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July 12th 2012 @ 8:39am
sledgeross said | July 12th 2012 @ 8:39am | Report comment
Yeah, its a tough one, I go with Jordan though.
Anyone who watched Magic would know that he wasnt a great shooter, he got alot of fastbreak points and had some sweet moves in the lane and post to score (hence his high fg). He also wasnt the lockdown defender that Jordan was.
Magic may have been the most versitile, but Jordan was the best.
July 12th 2012 @ 8:55am
Australian Rules said | July 12th 2012 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Ryan, it seems your answer to the headline is – no.
And I’d agree. Jordan not only had the numbers across every metric, but also had that star champion quality – that “give me the ball in the dying seconds of the Championship game” quality. And he arely failed to deliver.
An interesting sidebar…
(perennial bridesmaid) Scotty Pippen said last year that he thought that LeBron was probably the greatest player of all time… Jordan the best ‘scorer’ of all time, but LBJ the best all round player. Again, I don’t agree, but interesting…
July 12th 2012 @ 9:38am
Ryan O'Connell said | July 12th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
I found that comment bizarre. Not only had LeBron not won a title at that time, but Pippen played with MJ. I did read that he backtracked from it a few days later, but it was still interesting.
July 12th 2012 @ 4:41pm
Australian Rules said | July 12th 2012 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
Here’s Horace Grant’s response to Pippen’s comments:
“”Pip is my man, and we will always be close but I totally disagree,” Grant said. “LeBron is going to be one of the top players to ever play the game. But Michael Jeffrey Jordan, who we bumped heads with at times, is I think in my era, the best who ever played the game.
“I’m kind of at a loss for words because Michael Jordan … when you win numerous MVPs and you’ve taken the team to six championships — and probably could have been eight if he didn’t retire those two years — and MVPs in the playoffs … and he made us better.
“Believe me, he made myself, Scottie, B.J. [Armstrong], even Bill Cartwright who I love, he made us better players. He gave us that confidence. But first we had to earn his trust. And once we earned his trust you saw championship after championship.”
Werd Horace.
July 12th 2012 @ 9:48am
BennO said | July 12th 2012 @ 9:48am | Report comment
As a Laker’s fan who’s best mate back in the day was a bulls fan, this is something I’ve thought about on and off over the years.
You’ve presented an interesting hypothetical, but I’m gonna try and bring it into reality a bit more – I’m gonna mess with the stats slightly differently.
Magic averaged 19.5 points, 7.2 rebounds, 11.2 assists, and 1.9 steals.
Jordan averaged 30.1 points, 6.2 rebounds, 5.3 assists and 2.4 steals.
Rather than give Magic points for half his assists, why not just convert them to points? They are after all points in the bag for the team. Rounding down for convenience, that’s 22 additional points for Magic and 10 more for Jordan, taking their average points to 41.5 and 40.1 respectively. Therefore, Magic is better than Jordan. 1.4 x better.