Five talking points from Friday night’s games
By Aidan, 16 Jul 2012 Aidan is a Roar Pro
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- Brisbane Broncos, Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs, New Zealand Warriors, NRL, Parramatta Eels, Rugby League
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After watching the Bulldogs put the Eels to the sword and the Broncos get over the Warriors in a thriller I couldn’t help but feel slightly sorry for both the losing teams and their respective coaches.
Both the Eels and Warriors faced uphill battles for different reasons and the matches created the following talking points.
1. Moi Moi’s KO
After Moi Moi was knocked out in the first 16 seconds of the match, reducing the Eels to three interchange payers for the remainder of the game, the Eels were always going to struggle.
While some might say that this incident in itself didn’t alter the outcome of the game, the Eels were no doubt at a disadvantage.
At half time, and even mid way through the second half, the Eels looked to be in the contest but ultimately fresh legs, via an extra interchange player, got the Bulldogs over the line. The 32-12 score line was not entirely reflective of how close the game was.
The talking point for me regarding this incident is whether a penalty and the reporting of Sam Kasiano was sufficient enough in the circumstances? In relation to the rules of the game I am not sure if the referees had any alternative, personally I would have preferred to see Kasiano either sin binned or sent from the field.
The justification for this is that the NRL has sent a strong message throughout the season that any contact with the head is unacceptable regardless of the circumstances. While this ruling may seem harsh given that Moi Moi was falling into the tackle and Kasiano didn’t go in with a swinging arm, at a minimum it would have been fairer to the Eels.
A more effective option, which the NRL commission needs to consider, would allow the referees to penalise the offending team in a manner that is consistent with the loss of an interchange player. I like the idea of having the offending teams interchange reduced by one also, but perhaps others have alternative options?
2. Kasiano’s Tackle
The talking point for me regarding Kasiano’s tackle on Moi Moi is whether or not he should be suspended? Having read my above discussion on the KO of Moi Moi you may be surprised that I believe Kasiano should not be suspended. Having watched several replays I am not sure that the outcome was avoidable.
Yes his arm makes contact with the head, yes any contact with the head is unacceptable, but in my view Kasiano was not necessarily at fault. Moi Moi clearly slips as he is hitting the ball up which happens to be at the same time Kasiano is trying to make an effective tackle.
While Kasiano’s arm was swinging, all tackles of high impact runs involve a swinging arm action to minimise the force of the collision. In this instance it just so happened that Moi Moi slipped and Kasiano’s arm which was preparing for Moi Moi’s original trajectory, contacted him across the head.
If suspending Kasiano would alter future illegal acts I would strongly advocate that he should be suspended. I am not however convinced that this will be the case and certainly won’t result in Kasiano or other players for that matter altering their tackling style. The only advantage to suspending Kasiano will be to those teams facing the Bulldogs in the coming weeks.
Where’s the justice in that for the Eels?
3. Bronco Favouritism
This issue has been raised in various forums but watching Friday nights game between the Broncos and Warriors made me again think about the significant advantage the Broncos obtain compared to other teams in the NRL, particularly the Warriors. Now before you turn this into an Australia v Kiwi thing or Queensland v the rest of the world hear me out.
The talking point for me is that the Broncos play all their home games at the same home ground week in week out and have the added advantage of playing a high proportion of their games on Friday night at the same time each week. Sure the Broncos are disadvantaged come State of Origin time when they lose a large number of players or their players are required to back up, but it doesn’t seem to affect their ability to make finals and/or win premierships. All I’m trying to say is that I bet the Warriors wish they were faced with the same predicament.
I would be interested to see if others see this as an advantage or disadvantaged to the Bronco’s? The main disadvantage, and a big one at that, is that come finals time the Broncos are then forced to travel and play in unfamiliar timeslots, imagine the impact this will have if they are forced to play a day game…….on a Sunday. This may not be a reality as finals footy is generally played in the evening but if they make the grand final who knows.
4. Coaching of Referees
After Corey Norman scored the first try of the night the Warriors were penalised at the re-start for having players in front of the kicker. Replays showed that perhaps one player was marginally in front of the kicker. Now strictly applying the rules of the game I am more than happy for a penalty to be awarded but is it really necessary?
The talking point for me is that I am more than happy to accept this decision as part of the game but my feeling is that the referee coaches had a large influence on this penalty. There is no doubt that the referees are asked to police certain areas of the game and are provided with vision of teams and their styles. If the referee’s are going to be so pedantic then lets see it in all facets of the game.
The main reason I raise this as a talking point is that later in the match when a Warriors player scrambled out of his own in-goal and was tackled in the field of play. The player was then lifted and dragged back into the in-goal area. The player appealed to the referee for a penalty but was summarily told to get up and play the ball. In my view this is a clear example of a professional foul and a penalty should have been awarded. No doubt if this was discussed pre-match with the referee coaches it would have been.
5. Bronco Penalty Counts
Finally sticking with the referees, there is no doubt that certain teams in the NRL are treated differently by the officialdom.
I was amazed to read in Friday’s Stats Central in the Telegraph that in 16 games this year the Broncos have won 11 penalty counts, lost four and tied one.
Is this because they are a disciplined team? Perhaps. Is it because they are perceived to be disciplined? Perhaps.
Or is it because they are a blue chip club and are refereed differently? Perhaps, but less likely.
For me the answer lies with a strong parochial crowd and the influence they have on referees.
Now before all you Queenslanders jump down my throat, no I don’t hate Queensland. I know I seem to be bashing the Broncos left right and centre but it is not my intention. 11 penalty count wins is massive.
It is four more than the next best of the Cowboys. Although the Broncos lost the penalty count 4-3 on Friday night, this is the exception to the rule.
Not surprisingly, and consistent with a team that attracts small crowds, the Raiders have won three penalty counts, lost 11 and tied two. My mates and I, as season ticket holders that support other teams, have been talking about this for years. It was good to finally have this confirmed. Am I reading too far into this? Perhaps, but consider this next time you watch the Broncos play.
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July 16th 2012 @ 8:10am
KSI said | July 16th 2012 @ 8:10am | Report comment
I was at the Broncos game on Friday and I can tell you that the Broncos have the least influence on the ref than any other club. The Kiwi fans were twice as loud. You get 3 types of people that go to Broncos home games. 1 Broncos fans. 2 Opposition fans. 3 Fans of league who go because its there fortnightly dose of live footy.
I see Lang Park as a horrible home ground for a team. As its pretty even all the time. (Except Origin).
But it is great to watch footy at.
July 16th 2012 @ 10:46am
solly said | July 16th 2012 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Aidan,
I disagree with your statement that “the 32-12 score line was not entirely reflective of how close the game was.”
One characteristic of a quality team is the patience they can display in defence.
The Bulldogs, even without the ball for much of the later stages of the first half, had Parramatta’s measure.
I think the Eels showed good character to be able to maintain such possession as they did but ultimately the Bulldogs proved that simply having the ball is not hte same as winning.
July 16th 2012 @ 5:40pm
Aidan said | July 16th 2012 @ 5:40pm | Report comment
Solly, The Bulldogs were very impressive on Friday night. Their defence has improved considerably since Des came to town and I think they are real premiership contenders this year if not next. I did however think that Paramatta looked dangerous in the middle section of the match and if it wasn’t for the Bulldogs defence it would have been closer. I am not sure if you noticed but in the last 10 minutes of the game the Bulldogs used 3 interchange players and definitely came home much stronger than the Eels.
July 16th 2012 @ 7:16pm
solly said | July 16th 2012 @ 7:16pm | Report comment
Hi Aidan,
You said that “… Paramatta looked dangerous in the middle section of the match and if it wasn’t for the Bulldogs defence it would have been closer.” Well, that’s the whole point, isn’ it? The Bulldogs defence had their measure.
To be frank, I don’t think it was close at all. The Bulldogs defence was much better than Parramtta’s attack and the Bulldog’s attack was at least as good as Parramatta’s.
I think the scoreline was indicative of the gulf between the two teams.
Did the interchange situation affect that? Perhaps but at this level, if you’re good enough, you’re good enough. I just don’t think Parramatta are good enough. Their recent points blasts have come when the other teams have fallen asleep. The Eels haven’t been able to sustain any pressure on the opposition in order to dominate them. The good teams can do that. Parramatta have relied on the opposition to fall asleep before they start attacking.
That’s not exactly a reliable way to win a premiership.
July 16th 2012 @ 11:35am
B.A Sports said | July 16th 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
One of the big issues out of the Dogs v Eels game for me was Ennis passing out of dummy half. I counted nine forward passes for the match including four in the first 12 minutes from Ennis alone that were boarder line at best. It was ridiculous.
As for the penalty stat. This isn’t necessairly reflective of the number of penalties they recieve but 50% of the tries scored by the Rabbitohs come from penalties – far and away the most in the league (and they score alot of tries). 12 of the other 15 teams sit below 32%. To me that says the Bunnies don’t score a lot of tries through built up pressure, and their forwards don’t make good ground. Things which could hurt them in the finals when there isn’t typically as many penalties awarded.
July 16th 2012 @ 11:52am
oikee said | July 16th 2012 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Agree with KSI and Solly, the Bulldogs were always going to be hard to beat, even with FuiFui on the field. Some good ideas about having a extra man, or even taking the player off who knocked him out would be good as well. both down to 16 men for the rest of the game would even up the contest, and send a message to the next guy hopefully, or would it only enciurage a player to knock out the other teams best player. Not sure.
I have just watched the new program “Broncos Insider” started this week. One thing you realise when you watch a series like this is just how professional this club really is, and it has no time for discipline measures, is probably why they were so quick in letting a player like Dane Gagai go.
For every Dane Gagai, their are 10 more who desparate to make the Broncos.
No, the Broncos sit on the top of lest penalties because they are trained not to give away penalties.
Watching the games on the weekend, as you surgested, i noticed the Refs did not want to penalise Robbie Farrah for holding down the tackled player during the Tigers game, and he did this for 80 minutes, and the Storm game was just plain funny, you could hear the refs tell the storm players to unlock their arms in the tackles, every 3rd tackle, a Cowboy had his arm in the air in a lock position, not one penalty all game for this, and i counted at least 20 wrestling locks, all trying to lock the arm over to turtle players.
Going back to the Broncos game, it flowed, no funny tackling techniques, no holding down in the tackles. I prefer to watch the Broncos and Warriors play because they just play footy. Until the refs start to crackdown on home games by these other clubs, you really cant whinge.
It happens at Manly, the Storm, the Tigers, Manly, all the home teams seem to do as they like because home ground advantage seems to be to much for our whistle blowers. Imagine the Boos if they penalised their golden boy Robbie.
Same as Gallen at the sharks, not a word about his play at home. And i will also point out something you can watch and i bet it happens. They (Gallen Farrah and Lyons, have their hands in the air asking the refs for a penalty every set of 6.
They are pathetic. Honest, watch them, they all turn to the refs arms out asking for their weekly penalties, this is why the video ref awarded the try in the Tigers game, Moltzen did a Farrah with his arms out looking for his penalty instead of trying to tackle the guy, stop the try.
Its pathetic. The whole Manly team walk around with their arms out during matches, they cant get tackled without getting up arms out looking for their penalties, same as Gallen, gets up arms out looks at the ref, where is my penalty.
Pathetic. No wonder new south wales got the nickname “cry baby blues”.
July 16th 2012 @ 2:14pm
The Barry said | July 16th 2012 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
There was absolutely nothing Kasiano could have done to avoid the contact to Moi Moi’s head.
If he gets suspended they should go back to Origin II and suspend Cameron Smith for his hit on Uate. Exactly the same, a player slipped (Uate was ankle tapped) and fell into the tackle.
July 16th 2012 @ 2:28pm
eagleJack said | July 16th 2012 @ 2:28pm | Report comment
The Barry, pretty sure he will get suspended. Got a Grade 2 high tackle charge. I thought he would get a Grade 1 seeing as FuiFui was falling. But even then he would have missed a game due to pleading guilty to his Grade 1 Dangerous contact on Luke O’Dwyer earlier this year. I’d say Kasiano will miss 2 games.
Cam Smith is a bit untouchable. Im not sure how he didn’t get a grading for kneeing the Cowboys player after he scored. A deliberate act borne from frustration. He is also VERY lucky he didn’t connect with his high shot on Benny Barba a few weeks back. So many unsavoury elements to Smiths game. Great player. But will get a job in MMA once he has retired.
July 16th 2012 @ 2:52pm
Matt F said | July 16th 2012 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
I agree. Kasiano’s arm was going straight for Moimoi’s chest i.e. a perfectly legal tackle, until he slipped over at the last split second. What exactly is he supposed to do?
I know we have to protect the head but sometimes it really is unavoidable.
July 16th 2012 @ 3:40pm
steve b said | July 16th 2012 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Watched the replay again it was a careless tackle and his arm was swinging ..two weeks for mine …
July 16th 2012 @ 3:27pm
jdubya said | July 16th 2012 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
The Broncos win every penalty and the Roosters lose every penalty count.
July 16th 2012 @ 5:36pm
Aidan said | July 16th 2012 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
I’m not much of a roosters fan but they certainly have been on the end of some dubious decisions this season.
July 16th 2012 @ 3:42pm
matt h said | July 16th 2012 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
I have a few problems with this article:
1. “the Broncos play all their home games at the same home ground week in week out”. What? They play home and away like any other team. And most teams have the same home ground. those that are marged teams may have two – but big deal.
2. “added advantage of playing a high proportion of their games on Friday night at the same time each week”. I have to debate this. Firstly the Broncos have long said that they would prefer Sunday afternoon games and that Friday games cost them big in terms of crowds. Secondly Brisbane never get to pay on a sunny afternoon on a dry track, so by necessity they have turned into safety frist grinders.
3. “Sure the Broncos are disadvantaged come State of Origin time when they lose a large number of players or their players are required to back up, but it doesn’t seem to affect their ability to make finals and/or win premierships”. So because the Broncos manage to overcome this disadvantage, then it doesn’t count? This says more for the Broncos depth and junior development than anything else.
4. “I bet the Warriors wish they were faced with the same predicament”. The Warriors actually have a better ‘predicament”. they are a one country team. And they can have an all international side and they are called away for one Anzac test a year. While the Broncos have bashed themselves silly through state of origin, and add city country for the top NSW sides, the Warriors Kiwi internationals are fresh as.
And then to go on to talk about referees favourtism when the Broncos lost the penalty count is a bit rich. Every team has a home ground. And I’m sure some (Brookvale, Leichhardt) are just as intimidating for referees.
July 16th 2012 @ 5:34pm
Aidan said | July 16th 2012 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
Hey matt h, in relation to the issues I raised regarding the Broncos I haven’t suggested that it is the Broncos fault. The NRL is run by an independent commission and ultimately they decide fixtures etc. My point about the Broncos is that their preparation isn’t affected to the same degree as other teams. Generally speaking they play on a Friday night- as they do again this Friday and all their home games are at the same venue. I feel sorry for the Tigers and teams like Souths and Manly who play at so many different ‘home’ grounds. In regards to your other comment regarding the Warriors being a one team country I don’t really follow the logic and how this helps them.
In regards to the penalty count I acknowleged that the Broncos lost the penalty count on Friday but this is largely the exception to the rule. On Friday, in terrible conditions the Broncos still pulled a crowd of 32,000- which is pretty impressive to say the least. The point I was throwing out there is does the crowd in Brisbane influence referees the same way 8,000 at Canberra stadium influence referees?
July 16th 2012 @ 5:46pm
KSI said | July 16th 2012 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
On the other hand you can say non NSW teams are disadvantaged because they have to fly every other week.
July 16th 2012 @ 8:31pm
Matt h said | July 16th 2012 @ 8:31pm | Report comment
The tigers, Souths and Manly choose to take some home games away from their home ground. If the broncos have some sort of advantage here it is created by those other teams.
The one team country comment was in response to the broncos having to lose all those state of origin players, and I was pointing out that the warriors, having the whole of NZ as their nursery, can have international class players and not lose them to state of origin during the season. So it helps compared to Australian teams that lose their best players to State of Origin.
Re the crowds, 8,000 at Canberra no, but I bet reffing the tigers at Leichhardt would intimidate refs. Similarly the Sea Eagles at Brookvale.
Re Broncos favoritism, I’d be interested in knowing if you are actually suggesting something should be done about it? If so, what? Limit crowds at suncorp? Make the broncos play half their home games away? Give up TV revenue by banning the highest rating team from playing Friday nights? Give other teams a two penalty head start?
July 16th 2012 @ 9:35pm
Aidan said | July 16th 2012 @ 9:35pm | Report comment
Those teams ‘choose to’ because they need the money and are competing in the tight Sydney market. The warriors argument is out of our hands given that they are not eligible to play SOO so it can’t be seen as an advantage. That is like saying the Eels were advantaged because only Hayne played. In regards to Bronco favoritism, I suggest only that the Friday night game be shared across the league.
July 16th 2012 @ 5:10pm
Carlos said | July 16th 2012 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
Fui or no Fui we weren’t going to win on Friday.
Only positives were that Sandow looked dangerous when he wasn’t f**king up and young Kelly looks the goods.
The broncos are clearly favored by the stretch of Friday night games, the exposure of these matches should be shared as equally as possible around the competition.
July 16th 2012 @ 5:16pm
Matt H said | July 16th 2012 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
I think you might find it is not the Broncos that a favoured by the exposure. It is the league that is using the Bronco’s existing profile to maximise its ratings. The Broncos have never lobbied for the Friday night slot. they have publicly asked for Sunday afternoons on many occasions.