NRL needs fresh view on obstruction after same old problems
NRL referees co-coach Bill Harrigan speaks to the media about some of the controversial referee calls during last nights State of Origin during a press conference at Rugby League Central in Sydney, Thursday, May 24, 2012. The NSW Blues lost to Queensland in the first of three State of Origin matches. (AAP Image/Dean Lewins)
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Referees co-coach Bill Harrigan spent last week putting together a special DVD clearing up the obstruction rule so NRL coaches, players and fans could all head into the NRL finals knowing exactly what is and isn’t acceptable.
The only problem is, despite his best efforts, the message hasn’t got through to the key people in the game.
The obstruction farce reared its head again on Friday night at Brookvale Oval as Manly beat Brisbane 16-6, and by Sunday the interpretation of the ruling also left many scratching their heads.
Harrigan felt the clarification was necessary because of a try awarded to Bulldog Jono Wright against the Tigers just over a week ago that he called “unacceptable.”
The former first grade whistleblower went on to say that players couldn’t gain, “an advantage by a run, pass or kick.”
At least twice this weekend the men in charge of the matches, both on the field and in the box, seemingly failed to uphold those criteria.
On Friday night, Brisbane lock Corey Parker got the ball from halfback Peter Wallace, ducked behind a decoy runner and passed the ball to centre Jack Reed.
Reed made use of the space created and ran down the sideline before putting in a grubber kick and forcing a drop-out.
Clearly, Brisbane benefited via a pass, but instead of getting a penalty back on their own 30m line, Manly were forced to take a drop-out and defend their line.
Manly’s players seemed to know that they were entitled to a penalty because Anthony Watmough, Daly Cherry-Evans, Glenn Stewart and Jamie Lyon all stopped and looked at the officials at once.
Those four players, myself, the commentary team and fans could all be wrong, but given the guidelines we’re all working to, it seems like that should’ve been a penalty to Manly.
Sea Eagles captain Jamie Lyon pleaded for an explanation from referee Tony Archer immediately after the incident.
He can be heard saying, “what’s the rule” at least three times before a frustrated looking Archer walks away.
Manly coach Geoff Toovey even had a thinly veiled swipe during the post-match news conference saying that it was, “good to see they’ve cleared up the obstruction rule as well.”
“That was good … anyway,” he continued before shaking his head.
Things weren’t any clearer by yesterday afternoon at the Sydney Football Stadium.
Roosters halfback Mitchell Pearce scored a try after stepping behind fullback Anthony Minichiello, who had just crashed into Tigers winger Matt Utai and stand-in hooker Liam Fulton.
Utai did have a genuine chance of stopping Pearce scoring the try, but was denied the opportunity to do so because of the run made by Minichiello.
Pearce had benefited from a run. So, penalty right? Wrong. Video referee, decision pending, try, four points and cue more head-scratching.
Tigers coach Tim Sheens was surprised the try was awarded.
“Yeah, but there were three of them up stairs so obviously majority ruled,” he said.
Now, if the men in the box feel Minichiello’s run had no effect in the scoring of the try then they’re entitled to award a try, but it would be pretty hard to argue that was the case.
Both of these incidents had no effect on the eventual outcome, but it’s concerning that after a week where the officials were grilled about what is and isn’t acceptable, we have these two situations occur.
The finals are almost upon us and it would be absolutely ridiculous to have a match decided by a rule that is far too open to interpretation.
It used to be ingrained in footballers that if you ran behind your player you stopped. If you didn’t, you ran the risk of being penalised for a shepherd.
Why has this rule been made so hard to understand?
It hasn’t benefited the game at all, so why is it still here?
Surely, common sense should prevail and the ‘old fashion’ interpretation of the shepherd re-instated before we’re talking about this on the Monday after the grand final.
You can follow Luke Doherty on Twitter @Luke_Doherty and on Sky News Australia.
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August 27th 2012 @ 6:45am
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 6:45am | Report comment
The rule has been clarified, i think the media should stop bringing this up.
Yesterday it was Matt Utai’s own team mate who ran into him, not Minni. Go have a look at the incident until you get it right.
I just want the callers to stop going on and on about incidents that they clearly cant see themselves. It happened very quick but it was not minni in the tackle, he had already gone through, i think it was Fulton who was going to Tackle Minni, (so would this be ruled tackled without the ball) and he then run into Matai who fell backwards.
The media are getting it wrong. As for the Broncos incident, they need all the help they can get, maybe try get away with more obstuctions could help
August 27th 2012 @ 9:09am
Boz said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:09am | Report comment
It’s not so much the rule, but the video ref has made the officials gun shy of making any calls on the go. They should make it that the video ref is only used when a captain challenges a call during the game. The refs must rule on everything else as they see it. You can bet your bottom dollar that if the broncos had scored off that jack reed play, they would have gone back to look at possible obstruction. And this happens for different infringements all the time. As long as they think a try is going to be scored, they hold off making the call, and instead go upstairs for the video ref.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:24am
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:24am | Report comment
Agree Boz, i want the captains challenge, coach challenge. It has to be coach challenge. The captain can be off the field or on the other side of the field, what happens then, the coach runs out a little note to tell him to stop the play. ?
Come-on NRL, they have trailled this in America in the NFL, it is a coach call. Why are we going down this path, why do we do things backwards in this game.
They will bring in the captains call only to cahnge it 3 years down the track after we all complain and start to yell at the TV and refs again.
Tell ya, its like banging your damm head agaisnt a brick wall, and it is Harrigons fault, he should be able to see this before this nonsense gets outta hand.
This guy has got to go, who,,,, who can sack him,, ,,, nobody.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:01am
B.A Sports said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:01am | Report comment
Agree Oikee on the Utai/Pearce obstruction.
Fulton, being the genius that he is, ran straight past Pearce and only had eyes for Minnichello and in turn he took Utai out. So I had no problem with that try.
As for the decision in the Broncos game, right or wrong, Archer gave his explanation to Lyon, and Lyon, a habitual complainer, followed him, some might say chased him, right across field. He continually shows no respect to officaldom (never has shown it his entire career) and I would love to have seen Archer give a penalty to the Broncos right under the posts. But then he would have had a Tooovey rant to deal with after the game… and as usual Toovey can just say what he likes..
August 27th 2012 @ 10:15am
Mals said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
What answer did Archer actually give Lyon? No wonder he was complaining Archer was clueless!
August 27th 2012 @ 10:32am
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:32am | Report comment
BA Sports he effectly did give a penalty to Brisbane by giving them the ball back via the drop kick. Also what answer did he get ? I was watching I did not hear one ? Archer has become the new “hollywood”.
If referees want respect they need to stop talking to players like they are friends one moment and the boss the next ? Referee’s over the last few weeks talk to players during play by their first name’s and talk sarcastically sorry referee’s you are not part of the entertainment. You are a referee ! If your are any good as a referee we barely know you are there.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:38am
Will Sinclair said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:38am | Report comment
To be fair to Archer, I think the referees have been confused by the stupid and unnecessary tinkering with this rule.
Their job has been made much harder than it needs to be.
And, unfortunately, you have to blame Harrigan. I imagine he’s on borrowed time.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:40am
B.A Sports said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
Planko/Mals
He first told Foran to shut it – which is standard for most calls that go against the Sea Eagles, as Lyon followed him he paused, turned to Lyon and told him the decision was made, we didn’t see an advantage, something to that effect. Look it was the wrong decision , but Lyon flaps his arms around like a crazed bird at every decision,. Maybe if he was a bit more selective about when he approached the referee’s he would get a better hearing.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:54am
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Decision was wrong and you know it …. There was an advantage … He told foran to shut it based on a crappy decision. His ego would not allow him to send it upstairs. If Brisbane had scored from that drop out would that not have been an advantage ? The referee’s like archer think they are better than the game and need to get over themselves. The players should not need to get a better hearing … Referee’s might get more respect once they realise that they are not the entertainment.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:24am
eagleJack said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Telling Lyon that the decision is made and there is no point questioning it is not good refereeing. Lyon correctly asked what the rule was. Cause EVERY other person on the planet knew it was an obstruction except for the 2 incompetent referees.
The refs are a disgrace this year. Constantly telling captains like Ennis, Farah, Lyon, Smith , Mannering that the decision is made and effectively ” too bad move on”. The simpe truth is Archer didn’t know the rule and was sprinting away from the situation. You would think since they made such a scene about them having a “2 hour meeting” on the obstruction rule earlier in the week, they would have got this simple one right
Nobody wants a Grand Final decided by such incompetence but the way we are headed it is almost inevitable.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:31am
Jimbo said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Foran was in the wrong no doubt, but Lyon is the captain and he is entitled to an explanation for the decision. It was about the clearest example I have seen of a player gaining an advantage from running behind their own man. I have some sympathy for the referees as Harrigan’s recent attempts to clear up the rule have been just about useless, but if they aren’t going to penalise that play for obstruction, it is hard to see how anything short of an NFL style block would get penalised.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:22pm
B.A Sports said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
I said the ruling was wrong.
Lyon probably would have got a better hearing if he didn’t complain about every penalty and every knock on that gets ruled against them. Its a cultural thing for Manly (yes i’m Manly bashing!). Hasler did it, Toovey does it constantly, the club have done it for years with their whole “everyone is against us” menatlity and it reflects in the players on the field when every players carries on at every penalty. Geez what was Toovey’s whinge after the Bulldogs game about Perret being offside when he scored and he wasn’t even close to being offside? Pick your battles.
Some refs are better at handling captains and players than others, but as we now some captains complain about everything and sometimes Jamie Lyon runs more metres going back and fourth across the field to quesiton officials than he actually runs with the ball.
August 27th 2012 @ 1:47pm
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
“Everyone is against us”…. You comment is all part of that myth….. Thanks keep it going please say something more ! Rule 6.1.3 of the international rules say ANY player can question the referee on ANY penalty provided they do so respectfully so there is variable in that too …. I know a drop out is not a penalty literally but it is pretty close. It is a penalty compared to receiving one.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:36pm
Hamish said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
He said Ive made my ruling and walked away…
August 27th 2012 @ 9:30am
George said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Simple answer.
You can not under any circumstances run behind a player. If you do so, the ref blows his whistle for a shepherd and the other team gets a penalty.
If they cant get the whistle blowers using the most common sense rule in the game then they NEED to go.
Actually, after this rubbish we have seen this year come out of Hollywoods mouth, he needs to go ASAP!
August 27th 2012 @ 10:33am
JVGO said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Absolutely correct George, everyone knows this is how it should be but because of the Hodges try in Origin we cannot go back, otherwise Harrigan will be admitting that Origin was decided on a bad ruling. Only solution is thus to sack Harrigan because of the mess he has created and bring in a new boss to reimplement the correct traditional interpretation. Sorry Bill but there is really no alternative now, you have to go.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:01pm
Matt said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:01pm | Report comment
Not necessarily – it just means they have changed a rule. Shepherds happen a lot. The problem is a shepherd 5m from the defence is different to a shepherd less than 1m from the defence. Which of course makes it grey, and grey means subjective.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:34am
Jimbo said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:34am | Report comment
Exactly right – although some players won’t gain an advantage from running behind their own man, I think that having a clear rule like that would just make the whole thing a million times easier to police, and remove almost all chance of controversy, as there is next to no room for interpretation. I would add the qualifier that a player who does run behind his own man may stop and submit to a tackle without penalty.
August 27th 2012 @ 9:38am
mushi said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:38am | Report comment
But then every kick return becomes a penalty.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:37am
George said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Ok my fault, i should of added more meat to it.
Running behind a player in an attacking play.
We all know the difference between a shepherd play and a kick return or a dummy half run. (i’d like to think the ref’s will too)
August 27th 2012 @ 12:02pm
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Yeah everyone knows what you meant George. That wasthe rule for 100 years everyone knew what it meant. Every player playing the NRL today grew up with this rule and knows what it means. Obstruction what is it ?
August 27th 2012 @ 9:40am
mushi said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Along with any run from dummy half.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:05am
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Everybody knows the rules Mushi go play devil’s advocate somewhere else ! Justin Hodges try was not a try and you know it. Get over it.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:41am
mushi said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Gee I thought he was suggesting a new simplified rule are you saying every rugby league fan is clairvoyant and predicted his suggestion of a new rule?
Wow that’s impressive stuff but also begs the question as to why your didn’t big you incessant, unsupported, school yard whinging about the Hodges try long before the game.
If people are going to put up overly simplistic versions of a rule saying this would work, when it doesn’t survive being applied to an actual game, then I’m as entitled to put something up as you are to bleat about a decision made more than a month ago. Hell you’re having a crack at me for something I never raised or referred to.
But I will now – It’s a try. You know why – because the ref pointed to the spot, awarded four points and allowed QLD to attempt a conversion. You can bleat, whine, troll and throw your little tanty all you like it doesn’t change a thing. perhaps take a smidgen of your own advice – get over it.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:54am
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:54am | Report comment
I am having a crack at people who make silly comparisions like you have. I am over it. There was winging about this before Hodge’s scored. The rules did work for about a 100 years pal before OBSTRUCTION existed it was a shepherd. I am over it mate. Good luck with the Broncos you are a Broncos supporter ? If not who do you follow ? I can’t hold anger long it is a good flaw my children take advantage every day …
August 27th 2012 @ 12:20pm
mushi said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:20pm | Report comment
Clearly you aren’t over it – you raised an incident I didn’t refer to, from a game long since put to bed. I believe that is called clinging on to a grudge when you fly into a fit of rage every time obstruction is mentioned.
My silly comparison was due to everyone putting up what I think is an overly simple ruling without considering the broader consequences and recognising that interpretation has always been required.
Up until this season it had gotten to the point where it was interpreted heavily in the favour of the defence. If there was any contact at all then it was a penalty regardless of influence or who initiated the contact. People whinged about it. People complained that in the 100 years of rugby league that wasn’t obstruction.
So we now get a more attacking interpretation, and again the 100 years of rugby league (I am always amazed how many people have watched every game of rugby league ever played it really is quite extraordinary), again people complain.
The change was probably a bit rapid for everyone to adjust. Is there a middle ground? Probably and hopefully, but it won’t be found through excess simplicity.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:03pm
Matt said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:03pm | Report comment
Come on, if you got beaten:
year
after year
after year
after year
after year
after year
after year
you’d kinda be pretty up tight too
August 27th 2012 @ 9:54am
M.O.C. said | August 27th 2012 @ 9:54am | Report comment
The simple answer is for coaches to stop using “dummy runners”.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:38am
George said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Why should they stop.
If the refs and the boss are too incompetant to address the issue you would be a fool to tell your players to stop!
Once the refs starting pulling them up consistantly then the coaches will start using different tactics.
August 27th 2012 @ 11:35am
Jimbo said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:35am | Report comment
Yeah, on the Sunday footy show Freddy was saying (and this is perhaps the first vaguely sensible suggestion I’ve heard from him) that if he were coaching, he would instruct his players to run obstruction plays – and fair enough, if you aren’t going to get pinged, you may as well.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:01pm
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
Be careful Jimbo, you will lose credibilty real fast if you start quoting what Freddie said.
Between him and Joey Johns, you still would not get a spark from any friction.
They made dumb and dumber with these 2 in mind.
August 27th 2012 @ 7:04pm
Matt said | August 27th 2012 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
The same coaches teaching wrestling and slow down tactics then complaining when things happen against them?
August 27th 2012 @ 10:21am
steve b said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:21am | Report comment
You know it’s seems to me that somehow we have gone backwards , we learn’t at school playing school boy footy that if you ran behind any of your own players in the attack line it was a shepherd , it was so simple so what happened ,their is to many variables now ,, .. ,dummy runners seem to be the problem ..It really needs to be simplified to take out the guess work ….
August 27th 2012 @ 10:36am
Will Sinclair said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:36am | Report comment
I saw the obstruction in the Manly v Brisbane game and just laughed. All the players knew it was an obstruction, all the commentators, all the fans at the ground, all the fans at home watching on TV… Everyone, it seems, except the referee.
I mean, honestly, the application of this rule has degenerated into high farce.
You have to laugh, or you’d cry.
A complete farce.
August 27th 2012 @ 10:40am
George said | August 27th 2012 @ 10:40am | Report comment
Well said!
One of the most simplistic rules in the game and it has become a joke!
And the person (s) need to go. Bill Harrigan and Stuart Raper!
August 27th 2012 @ 11:17am
planko said | August 27th 2012 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Section 10 – Obstruction
10.1 A player is guilty of misconduct if he/she deliberately obstructs another player who is not in possession
(refer rule 11.1(j)).
10.2 A player who is not in possession, or is off-side, cannot be obstructed even after a knock on or forward
pass.
10.3 If a player is deliberately obstructed after kicking the ball and the referee deems that the defender was
not committed to the tackle before the kick, a penalty should be awarded as described in rule 6.2.3.
10.4 A player in possession cannot be guilty of obstruction. He can use the goal posts to avoid tackle, dodge
behind a ruck of his/her own players, or bore a way through his/her own pack.
10.5 If the referee deems that obstruction has occurred accidentally and play has been irregularly affected,
the game should be stopped and recommenced with a scrum.
http://www.arldevelopment.com.au/fileadmin/document_downloads/ARL_Rules_book_2012_-_FINAL_INT_LAWS.pdf
The first lot is the international rules of rugby league the second link is the ARL’s rule book for everything it is gold. This is the problem. Go to section 15 ! Now I am going to see if there is another one for the NRL ?
August 27th 2012 @ 12:08pm
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Arh yeah, the rules i have been asking for the Commission to fix. They have to stop tinkering with the rules. It is becoming a complete dogs breakfast because super league follows the NRL as well. Then we have half a rule here, a rule their that nobody even knows what the rule means. I see super league commentators yelling out, that should be a penalty, that should be a penalty. ??
It is madness, the whole game should be penalised according to super league.
Someone has to fix this madness Harrigon has created, a monster.
That knockon rule is awful, a ball can be knocked forward 10 metres and be called play on.
Come-on, lets stop this madness, fix the damm rules and get Harrigon out of the game. Hime and raper are going to kill this game.
August 27th 2012 @ 12:15pm
oikee said | August 27th 2012 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
I want everyone to stop and think about what i am about to say, no honestly.
Some of us wanted Gallop gone, i said he had to go for the game to move forward, some liked him, some loathed him.
Have a look, the game has doubled the last deal with no Gallop. Yes i think Dave did all the right things, but he is a behind the scenes man. If we did not constantly see players in trouble, we might only have seen dave a couple times a year. He was always squirrelling away in the backrooms.
Now, get rid of Harrigon and Raper. They are turning this game into a dogs breakfast, will we miss them? No of course not, the game will improve and nobody will care less about Hollywood or Raper.
Sharpen the AXE. Come on John Grant, you know you want to do this, league fans are right behind you mate, chop them.
You only need one set of eyes in the box, if he cant do the job, get rid of him. Hamstead has been given 10 lives, get rid of him. He is clueless, everyone else can make the right call. They get 1 stuffup , if they get it wrong gone. Why reward dills.
August 27th 2012 @ 1:29pm
tonysalerno said | August 27th 2012 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Bill Harrigan may have to run a commercial to let the fans know what the new rule is. The new season will hopefully provide clarity of the obstruction rule and all other refereeing decisions- but from now to the grand final the referees will be walking on eggshells to try and not make a key error result a game’s outcome.