Mike Pyke and AFL’s uneasy relationship with the rah-rahs
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Within the rather culturally homogenous ranks of AFL, regional accents that are not Australian are generally, of course, Irish.
Yet sitting on the Swans’ interchange bench during the AFL Grand Final at the MCG is Mike Pyke, whose cultured twang betrays an adolescence spent somewhat removed from the game’s traditional weaning grounds.
Pike, at two metres tall and over 100 kilograms, hails from Victoria, British Columbia. That’s where Nelly Furtado’s from, you know.
As well as being one of the AFL’s most valuable overseas imports, Pyke is also the game’s highest profile convert from Rugby Union.
The Swans also boast Lewis Roberts-Thomson, another who shunned his private school breeding with the 15-man game to take up a sport which, for many among the grammar school set, remains a baffling free-for-all with more in common with netball than anything else.
Pyke’s career represents represents an interesting cross-code relationship that has been largely dwarfed by the fierce crossfire between AFL and Rugby League.
As the nation’s two most popular sports, the almighty rigmarole over the Israel Folau and Karmichael Hunt sagas takes centre stage over any to-and-fro between AFL and Rugby. But to and fro there is, and will continue to be.
And Pyke wasn’t just any rugby player. His talents won him a contract with Montaubon in France’s Top 14, while his intercept try off a Dan Carter pass remains one of the most satisfying memories from the 2007 Rugby World Cup.
Pyke signed with the Swans in 2008, having established quickly that his fitness, strength and speed made him ideal for the game, as proved to be the case. A clash with Pyke is a painful encounter.
His success has surprised many, but is rugby not a closer match with AFL’s skill set than Rugby League? As the Wallabies have proven so depressingly in 2012, rugby is increasingly an aerial game where the ‘up and under’ or ‘garryowen’ is the most effective tactic available for every team, except the All Blacks.
The skills of fullbacks and wingers in rugby are developing in such a way that soon we will see the majority of high balls taken with hands above heads, a la Billy Slater, Jamie Lyon or Lance Franklin. Will this make rugby as attractive a realm as Rugby League for AFL recruiters?
However, it could naturally work the other way too. Franklin, for example, has the build of the most hurly-burly of flankers and the astonishing fitness of AFL players could bring new dimensions to rugby (any converts would have to get a tad fatter, mind you).
The age-old problem remains with AFL though: no one cares about it outside of a few parts of Australia. Our Mr Pyke’s exploits are going pretty much unreported in Canada, whereas his Top 14 endeavours found plenty of followers back home.
Any athletes to make the switch from Rugby Union, a much more international game than League, face the relative ignominy of a localised and parochial sport. No more Twickenham, Stade de France or Murrayfield. Hello Blacktown Olympic Park of a Saturday afternoon.
For the record, here are five rugby players who would be much, much better than Israel Folau in AFL: Israel Dagg (New Zealand), Rob Kearney (Ireland), Patrick Lambie (South Africa), Dom Shipperley (Australia), Juan Martin Hernandez (Argentina).
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October 3rd 2012 @ 4:07am
Steve said | October 3rd 2012 @ 4:07am | Report comment
Mike Pyke’s try was actually in a World Cup warm up game not the actual world cup. Montauban were a second division club when Pyke joined from Edinburgh. They were then relegated in 2010 and are currently in the 3rd division. Funnily enough, for such a small club they actually had 2 of the weekends grand final stars on their books at one stage. Sisa Waqa who’s father is the Tongan rugby 7′s coach was contracted with US Montauban.
Rugby has such a diverse and numbered player pool so it’s only natural that they would have a number of athletes suited to the AFL. Mike Pyke was just an honest, average rugby player but he had the right body size for AFL. If you went and got some fith division club rugby player who was 200 plus centimeters with athletic ability they could make a go of it. What Pyke had was attitude.
October 4th 2012 @ 1:18pm
mats said | October 4th 2012 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Montauban were a top 14 team when mike joined. he played two seasons there and in both of them they finished mid table of the top 14. two years after he left, they had a budget problem and were relegated as a result and sent to the third div.
October 3rd 2012 @ 5:50am
Redb said | October 3rd 2012 @ 5:50am | Report comment
Stopped reading after “more in common with netball” really?
Whether it was a not so subtle put down of AFL footy or ignorance, I would have thought basketball would make a better analogy, bounce the ball, etc.
October 3rd 2012 @ 6:36am
AIS said | October 3rd 2012 @ 6:36am | Report comment
Pyke’s intercept on Dan Carter didn’t take place in the 2007 rugby world cup.
“The age-old problem remains with AFL though: no one cares about it outside of a few parts of Australia. Our Mr Pyke’s exploits are going pretty much unreported in Canada, whereas his Top 14 endeavours found plenty of followers back home.”
Actually, he’ll tell you that he had zero status in Canada when he played rugby as it’s not a big sport there. He has been featured in newspaper back page snippets recently though. This was sent from Australia via associated press. Unfortunately, when you look at the comments on these articles, they’re all from Australians.
October 3rd 2012 @ 6:40am
peeeko said | October 3rd 2012 @ 6:40am | Report comment
mike pyke was a nobody in rugby
October 3rd 2012 @ 8:54am
oikee said | October 3rd 2012 @ 8:54am | Report comment
He is still a nobody,
If we keep talking about him, he might become a somebody.
October 3rd 2012 @ 9:03am
Cameron said | October 3rd 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
lol oikee, you can only WISH he didn’t exist.
Your resentment shines through buddy.
October 3rd 2012 @ 4:54pm
Emric said | October 3rd 2012 @ 4:54pm | Report comment
Oikee is a league supporter and really dosn’t care about RU players nor how famous they are.
October 3rd 2012 @ 12:42pm
Chop said | October 3rd 2012 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
He’s a somebody now, he’s a premiership player.
That is something he’ll have forever.
October 3rd 2012 @ 7:26pm
Kasey said | October 3rd 2012 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
If I understand correctly he’s the only athlete on planet Earth who has both scored a try against the All Blacks and played in an AFL Premiership. Sounds like a somebody to me, and I’m a football fan!
October 4th 2012 @ 1:19pm
mats said | October 4th 2012 @ 1:19pm | Report comment
he played for the edinburgh gunners in the celtic league and started two seasons for a mid table top 14 team. he wasn’t israel dagg, but he was a good player, obviously.
October 3rd 2012 @ 7:01am
Steve said | October 3rd 2012 @ 7:01am | Report comment
There is a connection in terms of the sheer amount of kicking in each game, but it seems like in AFL you try to kick the ball to your own players, who then catch it and do something with it, whereas in Union you try to kick it to the opposition and hope they drop it, or straight into the crowd.
October 3rd 2012 @ 12:33pm
Mango Jack said | October 3rd 2012 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
Not really. when you kick in rugby, you are generally trying to find space to give your players time to make ground, and your team a territorial advantage. You might also try to kick the ball out (“find touch”), but almost never intentionally kick it to the opposition.
October 3rd 2012 @ 9:22pm
Brewski said | October 3rd 2012 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
Yes, the slightest hint that you are playing for the boundary ( looking for touch) and a free kick is awarded against you, plenty of occasions this year when a free kick was awarded against a player probably unjustly, so players try and keep the ball in.
October 3rd 2012 @ 7:36am
Dingo said | October 3rd 2012 @ 7:36am | Report comment
Can you give one example of a similarity between Australian Football and Netball, other than the fact both are played by Human Beings?
“The age-old problem remains with AFL though: no one cares about it outside of a few parts of Australia.”
That’s a problem?
Most fans couldn’t give two hoots as to whether Canadians or anyone else follows the game, If they do great, if not no big deal.
I guess there are some other Rugby players who could make the switch, as there are others from Basketball, Gaelic, etc who probably can, what they require are exceptional athleticism, sporting prowess and attitude. If they have got all of these they MIGHT get a club to have a look at them.
October 3rd 2012 @ 8:15am
Breezy said | October 3rd 2012 @ 8:15am | Report comment
Netball to me seems like a very structured game, so if football is a baffling free-for-all, I don’t know why it would be compared to Netball.
As far as the ignominy of a localised and parochial sport, would any Rugby player in the world have played in front of more people than Mike Pyke this year?
October 3rd 2012 @ 2:04pm
Rough Conduct said | October 3rd 2012 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
Jean DeVilliers for example would have played three tests at home this year against England, then played a season of Super Rugby for the Stormers at a home attendance average of over 40,000 at Newlands in Cape Town, he now is playing The Rugby Championship, travelling to Perth, Dunedin and Mendoza, this weekend he play at home against the All Blacks at Soccer City in Soweto where they had 95,000 attend the same fixture last year. At the end of the season he will travel to Europe to represent his national team in test matches at Lansdowne Road (Dublin), Murrayfield (Edinburgh) and Twickenham (London). Poor Jean, if only he would have put his name in the AFL draft, he could have been representing a suburb of Melbourne, against other suburbs of Melbourne, and play in Melbourne, in front of thousands of Melbournians.
October 3rd 2012 @ 2:09pm
TC said | October 3rd 2012 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
IN short, the answer to Breezy’s question was no (not that there is anything wrong with that).
TC
October 3rd 2012 @ 2:41pm
Rough Conduct said | October 3rd 2012 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
In short, its the wrong question. Lionel Messi has not played in front of that many people this year, but Billy-Bob Nobody from College Football probably has.
October 3rd 2012 @ 3:08pm
Breezy said | October 3rd 2012 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Let’s just say that ignominy was the wrong word to use in this article.
October 7th 2012 @ 12:03am
Fitzy said | October 7th 2012 @ 12:03am | Report comment
You have got to be joking the best thing about rugby is the crowd, who have to find ways to entertain themselves. Rugby is boring, plain and simple rich pratts fool themselves that it is otherwise! At least AFL is an entertaining game which requires the endurance of a marathon runner (4 Qtrs averaging 30 min, with most players running 15 k per game). The ability to use foot and hand skills with a high degree of accuracy at least 30 meters from you (thugby players pass the ball 3-5 meters) and the the awareness to read the play in a 360 degree manner (thugby only needs one direction in front of you). So the fact its played in EVERY state of Australia and not to the same level elsewhere ( AF is played in many countries now on a amature basis see World Footy News), does not detract from it being better, just means the rest of the world is missing out!
October 9th 2012 @ 5:46pm
nomis said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
No doubt AFL is great to play, and has many great qualities, but it’s an overstatement to say rugby is boring to play. Many people (much more people) find the opposite. It’s like comparing apples and oranges. Rugby also has much to appreciate.
If AFL was to die out in AUS it wouldn’t have much else. This isn’t to take away from AFL. More Aussie like it than rugby. And it’s still exciting to see it elsewhere in the world. But other sports like baseball and NFL also get excited about their growth in AUS.
October 27th 2012 @ 3:03am
Minz said | October 27th 2012 @ 3:03am | Report comment
I’ve played both, and Aussie Rules is the most fun I’ve had on the field. Rugby’s a lot easier on the body though, more of a long-term sport. Rugby tackling’s harder, but the ball skills are significantly easier. Apples and oranges!
October 27th 2012 @ 8:00am
yewonk said | October 27th 2012 @ 8:00am | Report comment
rugby is not more easier on the body. it is a lot harder on the body.
October 3rd 2012 @ 8:45am
Australian Rules said | October 3rd 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Pyke’s “rugby profile” in Canada has certainly been overplayed in this article but the broader discussion about more talent coming from rugby is an interesting one.
No AFL team could compare to the prestige of the Wallabies…but places are limited. There’s a squad of 30 in the national team…over 700 players make up the AFL…whilst earning more money and playing in front of bigger crowds.
Mike Pyke has been a tremendous success story and it’s a tribute to his mental toughness. He was laughable when he arrived 4 years ago…he worked tirelessly year after year…now a Premiership player. Are you listening Izzy?
October 5th 2012 @ 1:46pm
CallmeeAl said | October 5th 2012 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
It was interesting that Pyke was feeling unfulfilled despite playing in RUWC in 2007, and playing pro in Scotland and France, and has commented about after the notion of AFL was floated, he knew he had to give it a go whilst getting ready to run on for the Rugby 7s tourney in Hong Kong for a game against England.
So, he happily walked away from the whole international element and is feeling fulfilled in a pretty close knit ‘club/team’ environment with shared ‘team’ success.
I guess not everyone would fit that bill – but, it’s often seen as the difference between the players willing to take a pay cut to keep a squad together to try to achieve a premiership compared to those who chase the best deal they can find for themselves individually. And – I’m not going to say who is right and who is wrong. I’m just going to say that there are 3 types of people in the world, those who are good at maths and those who aren’t!!
October 9th 2012 @ 5:47pm
nomis said | October 9th 2012 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
Great to hear he’s found a sport he loves, but you’re right, not everyone fits that bill.
October 3rd 2012 @ 9:02am
Brewski said | October 3rd 2012 @ 9:02am | Report comment
i actually think there is a fair bit of respect between RU and AF, thats my take anyway.
Unlike the uneasy relationship between AF and RL, where it is apparent that there is a very different culture, RU culture is quite similar.
IME rugby players make a good fist of swapping to AF, kicking skills help and of course unlike RL there is actually a fight for contested ball.
October 3rd 2012 @ 9:24am
clipper said | October 3rd 2012 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Good points, Brewski – you don’t see the constant sniping between Rugby and AF and in Sydney, at least, they are played in the same areas and as you say, the culture is similar.
October 3rd 2012 @ 10:27am
Australian Rules said | October 3rd 2012 @ 10:27am | Report comment
Yes, there is a feeling that Australian Football and Rugby are…maybe not kindred spirits…but distant cousins perhaps.
October 3rd 2012 @ 12:36pm
Mango Jack said | October 3rd 2012 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Probably more to do with the fact that both are competing against RL, which is the dominant code in Sydney. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
October 3rd 2012 @ 5:28pm
Brewski said | October 3rd 2012 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Maybe, but from my experience with football clubs, and i am only talking suburban here, is that the culture of grassroots AF and RU clubs seems to be quite similar, and their does not seem to be the animosity.
The crossover would seem to me to be a lot easier.
October 6th 2012 @ 12:57am
Ian Whitchurch said | October 6th 2012 @ 12:57am | Report comment
Nope. The lack of sniping is purely and simply because rugby union’s position in NSW is horizontal.
Port Adelaide-level administration is absolutely normal in rugby union … and like rugby league, the occasional showpiece game makes fans feel good about how the code is doing, so they dont do any of the year-in, year-out slog to actually progress the game.
October 3rd 2012 @ 9:59am
Horace said | October 3rd 2012 @ 9:59am | Report comment
The games are very similar in that you are required to kick under pressure and make decisions under pressure not just take the tackle and play the ball. Obviously not many tight forwards would make the switch (I doubt Ewen McKenzie growing up in Melb was on the AFL scouting list – perfect body type for a prop) but Ross Tulloch and Jim lenehan played Rules before representing the Wallabies (there were probably others). Lockyer played Rules of course. NRL followerss should be thrilled that the AFL is copying them (ie taking players from their other sports because the NRL have done it for 100 years to Rugby and continue to plunder the islands and RU clubs in NZ for players.
October 3rd 2012 @ 3:18pm
Cugel said | October 3rd 2012 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
Don’t forget the Barbary Coast as well. Excellent source of back rowers, good teeth as well.
October 3rd 2012 @ 5:22pm
Brewski said | October 3rd 2012 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
They can pillage and plunder as well.
October 3rd 2012 @ 10:57am
allblackfan said | October 3rd 2012 @ 10:57am | Report comment
It’s no longer secret that the likes of AB fullback Israel Dagg and winger Corey Jane are so good under the high ball due to the AFL training they receive during AB practice sessions from ex-Hawthorn and Sydney player Mick Byrne (now assistant coach at the Auckland-based Blues Super rugby franchise — talk about a move in the opposite direction!).
In fact the entire team uses AFL marking techniques. That’s why, 10 years ago, the ABs were crap under the high ball and the Wallabies were naturally so good. Now the boot’s on the other hand (wait I mean foot — LOL!!)
Former AB halfback Nick Evans grew up in NZ playing Aust footy and came to Sydney as a Swans draft nominee but didn’t go any further so he went home and ended up playing rugby.
Of the Wallabies, Nathan Sharpe played Aust football as a kid as did James Horwill.
The main difference between AFL and rugby (like NRL is the body shape. Rugby players are bigger than NRL players so there’s more work to do there. Not that I want to see that happen!!
October 3rd 2012 @ 12:39pm
Mango Jack said | October 3rd 2012 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
Rugby players bigger than NRL players? Try saying that to Kasiano or Thaiday. Surely you mean bigger than AFL players?
October 3rd 2012 @ 1:15pm
Steve said | October 3rd 2012 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Sam Thaiday is a midget, nrl players are tiny.
October 3rd 2012 @ 2:08pm
Horatio said | October 3rd 2012 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
South african and NZ rugby forwards are bigger than NRL players because NRL forwards have too be more nimble and dont scrummage or jump……
October 3rd 2012 @ 2:58pm
allblackfan said | October 3rd 2012 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
MJ, you will occasionally get a bigger NRL player (ie Kasiano, Martin Bella, Thaiday, etc) but on average, RU players tend to be about 15kg heavier because the game is not just about running; there is a power/strength component as well.
We’ve seen these in games during the last two years when NRL converts to Aust teams (ie Cooper Vuna, JP Saffy) were struggling to make any impact with their one-on-one tackles because the player they were tackling were bigger then they were used to (I’m not talking giants but “significantly big enough”).
The fact that SBW went from a forward in RL to a midfield back/wing (or Kurt Sherlock from AB centre to Rooster prop) is just one of several examples. Brad Thorn was another who had to bulk up when he first came to RU although the second time he was advised to keep his RL weight as the game of RU was speeding up.
October 3rd 2012 @ 5:08pm
yewonk said | October 3rd 2012 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
martin bella?
October 4th 2012 @ 9:35am
allblackfan said | October 4th 2012 @ 9:35am | Report comment
he could have been a good ru prop in his day. Big and no neck, probably better suited to a switch then Kasiano.