The five worst recruiting decisions of the last decade
Israel Folau of the Giants chased by Justin Westhoff and Daniel Motlop of Port during the AFL NAB Challenge match between Port Adelaide Power and the Greater Western Sydney Giants at Willaston Oval, Willaston. Slattery Images
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In an era where footballers are so heavily scrutinised in the general public, several recruiting decisions have derailed clubs. Here’s a look at five of the worst from the past decade.
Players who arrive at a club via trade, draft and rookie listings can be identified as recruits but due to the large number of draft busts, this article will only be looking at players recruited by awful trade decisions.
Sometimes trades are one sided because a team gives up too much for an average player. Others are simply bad recruiting decisions because players bring bad habits to their new clubs. Every coach says they can fix a player’s bad habits but history suggests otherwise.
Here’s a look at five of the worst recruiting decisions from the past decade.
5. Jordan McMahon
In 2007, Jordan McMahon was traded from the Western Bulldogs to Richmond in exchange for pick 19. It was a trade with the approval of coach Terry Wallace and one of his most questionable decisions which led to his sacking.
The Bulldogs used pick 19 on Callan Ward who is quickly becoming one of the league’s best midfielders.
Although McMahon played 34 games in three seasons before being delisted, his impact on the AFL has been ridiculous considering how little he did on the field. In round 18 against Melbourne in 2009, McMahon kicked a goal after the siren to win the game.
Melbourne did not win another game for the season and were entitled to the priority draft pick used for Tom Scully. A three year investigation into tanking ensued.
Looking back on it, most people wish McMahon had just missed that kick!
4. Andrew Lovett
During the 2009 trade period, Lovett was traded from Essendon to St Kilda in exchange for pick 16. It was an offseason from hell for the club after Lovett was embroiled in a rape allegation, of which his new St Kilda teammates were present.
Lovett never once put on the St Kilda jersey after being immediately sacked by the club once rape charges were laid against him. Further drawing unneeded attention to his new club, a lengthy trial required St Kilda players to be cycled through the witness box.
Meanwhile, Essendon were grinning after a complicated trade saw Jake Carlisle land at Essendon in exchange for parting with Lovett.
3. Israel Folau
Let’s not kid ourselves – the guy was awful at football. He was recruited as a marketing tool and in the hope that his athletic abilities could make him a regular in the team.
Despite being paid $1.5m per year, roughly 30 times more than the kids who were drafted, he still couldn’t do his job.
Breaching his contract and leaving the game after just two years (one in the AFL), Folau may have helped gather attention in Western Sydney towards AFL, but recruiters around the country now know that intangible skills greatly outweigh physical athleticism in the game of Australian football.
He may have passed all his interviews and fooled recruiters to believe his commitment but in the end, Folou was a disaster.
2. Jason Akermanis
The AFL’s human headline, Akermanis never hid from the cameras and thrived when a microphone was placed in front of him. A gifted athlete, it took the very best of Leigh Matthews to tame the child-like man.
But in the end, Matthews and everyone in Brisbane had enough of his arrogant ways.
Every bit of his talent was exhausted by Brisbane until it reached the point where his on-field brilliance could no longer justify his culture killing demeanour.
Although playing reasonable football which still made him one of the top ten players at the club, the Lions were prepared to lose him for nothing until the Western Bulldogs and Rodney Eade showed interest.
Akermanis then found his way to Witten Oval in exchange for pick 34 at the end of 2006.
Believing they could change him, everything from media bans to interventions were tried but ultimately, it ended in hatred much like his departure from Brisbane.
Selling out his teammates, accusing opposition players of using drugs, disrespecting his coaches and homophobic comments were just a few Akermanis headlines. By the end of his career, he had few friends in the league beyond journalists.
1. Brendan Fevola
It’s not often a team passionately wants to get rid of their leading goal kicker for the past seven seasons but in 2009, Carlton decided enough was enough.
Fevola had always been one of the rowdier players around the league who was often baited by The Footy Show who took full advantage of his lack of professionalism.
The cameras loved him and in 2009 when The Footy Show asked him to host their Street Talk segment at the Brownlow medal, fans were greeted with what remains as probably the funniest interview segment ever.
Fevola’s booze filled night which was fully caught on cameras eventually cost him his job at Carlton who had previously suppressed such Fevola activity.
Unfortunately for Carlton, Fevola’s excellent form on the field had warranted him a three-year contract extension which he signed in 2008 and kept him contracted until the end of 2011.
When the decision to trade him was finally confirmed, he had two more years remaining on his contract which was worth $700,000 per year.
At the time, he was one of the top five highest paid key forwards in league and finding a club to take over that contract was extremely difficult.
Eventually though, Michael Voss put his hand up to take the troubled forward off Carlton’s hands and the Blues hierarchy were delighted.
Brendan Fevola and pick 27 were traded to the Brisbane Lions in exchange for Lachlan Henderson and pick 12 with Carlton agreeing to pay a meagre $100,000 per year for the remaining two of Fevola’s contracted years.
The Lions gave up a promising key position player in Henderson and to free up salary cap space, champion full forward Daniel Bradshaw did not have his contract renewed. Bradshaw subsequently played for Sydney the following season.
Away from the AFL spotlight in a smaller market, it was hoped Fevola would fade out of the national headlines with fewer AFL reporters in Brisbane than Melbourne.
How wrong they were.
Fevola had one mildly successful season with the Lions in 2010, kicking 47 goals in 17 matches but that was his last. Away from the structured nature of an AFL club, the lack of babysitting during the AFL offseason saw Fevola return to his alcohol and gambling fuelled adventures.
At one point he was omitted to a rehabilitation clinic to tackle issues of depression only to be found exiting a nightclub at 7am while he was supposed to be rehabilitating.
Finally by February of 2011, the Brisbane Lions accepted that Fevola was unrepairable and severed ties with the troubled forward who finished his AFL career with 204 games and 623 goals.
Players can do all the stupid things in the world but the buck stops with the people who bring them into the club.
Stay tuned for next week when we look at the five best recruiting decisions from the past decade.
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February 28th 2013 @ 4:34am
AndyMack said | February 28th 2013 @ 4:34am | Report comment
Hi Alfred
Good list. Although Mcmahon is debatable and Folau is a tough call….
The thing that got me with Fev is not how he then fell into a heap after signing with the Lions, but what it did to the Lions. To be offering up people such as Rischitelli, Henderson and Bradshaw, all of whom were very well respected at the club (bradshaw is a legend at the club, and Rischa was a real fav of the fans and members and staff) showed what the club thought of its players. A club that had shown loyalty and commitment to its players (never an easy thing to do in an afl outpost) all of a sudden discounted that for a possible 70+ goalkicker with a checkered history. Lost a lot of fans and credibility with that one move.
I’m sure ur readers will come up with some worthy contenders for this title, but surely Fev takes the cake…
Ouch.
February 28th 2013 @ 5:53pm
Andy_Roo said | February 28th 2013 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
The recruiting of Fevola to Brisbane will forever tarnish Michael Voss’ coaching career. Recruiting Fevola was a bad mistake but offering Bradshaw and Rischitelli as trades was a worse one. It doesn’t matter how good a coach Voss is or might be, he will never be forgiven.
February 28th 2013 @ 6:56am
Tiger said | February 28th 2013 @ 6:56am | Report comment
Are you serious? We could have had Callan Ward!!! Some of Terry Wallace’s recruiting decisions are severly questionable when we look back at it. It’s dumbfounding to think why he uses the name, ‘The List Manager’ on Twitter. Jordan McMahon was pretty much the exact same player as Richard Tambling turned out to be, only Wallace knew that before he traded for McMahon! Terry sure did have a knack for paying a premium for overrated flankers.
February 28th 2013 @ 10:08am
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:08am | Report comment
NO Tiger you could have had the compensation for Callan Ward – but yeah Wallace’s 5 year plan set you back 10.
February 28th 2013 @ 8:29am
langou said | February 28th 2013 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Not sure if it makes the time period but Freo traded the number one pick to Hawthorn for Trent Croad and then gave Croad back to the Hawks two years later
February 28th 2013 @ 8:55am
AndyMack said | February 28th 2013 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Freo def take the cake on poor recruiting. A few tigers fans might disagree, but Freo have been terrible…
March 3rd 2013 @ 10:08pm
Martin said | March 3rd 2013 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
Also Peter Bell should never have left Fremantle for North Melbourne.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:00am
Lroy said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Didnt the Dockers trade Andrew Mcloud to the Crows or something? Guy ended up being a legend, premiership and brownlow medalist… actually.. if you look at the top ten worst trades of all time.. 8 of them would involve the Frockers… lol..
February 28th 2013 @ 11:06am
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Yeah wasn’t there a Trent Croad for Luke Hodge the back again for nothing deal
February 28th 2013 @ 11:23am
Alfred Chan said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Yep. Hawthorn selected Trent Croad with the third overall selection in the 1997 draft. He kicked 80 goals over 84 games during his first three seasons and eas earmarked as an emerging superstar and an excellent contested mark.
In 2001, Luke McPharlin and Trent Croad were traded from Hawthorn to Fremantle for picks 1 (Luke Hodge), 20 (Daniel Elstone) and 36 (Sam Mitchell).
Croad had one decent season kicking 42 goals before struggling the next with just 18.
After his two years in Fremantle, he requested a trade back to Hawthorn citing homesickness and was traded back to Hawthorn for pick 10 (Ryley Dunn). Dunn played just 8 games over five seasons.
Back at Hawthorn, Croad was moved to CHF where he became and All-Australian and critical cog in Hawthorn’s 2008 premiership team. McPharlin also went on to become an All-Australian key defender in 2012.
It wasn’t included because the initial trade fell just outside of the last decade. Essentially, Fremantle traded Luke Hodge and Sam Mitchell for Luke McPharlin and Ryley Dunn. It will be one of the greatest grifts in the history of AFL.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:30am
Alfred Chan said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Croad was moved to CHB*
February 28th 2013 @ 2:30pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
Yeah that was in 2001 so a little outside the time frame. Let’s not forget Freo’s other glorious decision, well one of many, to trade a young Andrew Mcleod for Chris Groom, though that’s definitely outside the timeframe
February 28th 2013 @ 8:51am
Australian Rules said | February 28th 2013 @ 8:51am | Report comment
Not sure how this one got missed…
Richmond using pick 4 to “snare” Richard Tambling…while the Hawks obligingly picked up Buddy at 5.
dear oh dear
February 28th 2013 @ 2:22pm
The Fridge said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
I agree whole-heartedly with Australian Rules! Richard Tambling is the man whom these articles are perennially based on (for good reason). Poor old Jordy McMahon… I think that’s rough. Pick 19 compared to a pick 4 – No argument… Tambling’s a double-header bad recruit – If the Crows had a $1 for everytime they said “what were we thinking?”, they may’ve recouped losses against his contract 10-fold by now.
June 7th 2013 @ 2:49pm
Yarraville Tiger said | June 7th 2013 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Richmond got played by Hawthorn in that draft. We wanted Roughead and Hawthorn were meant to take Buddy at 2.
Hawthorn reversed the order knowing that we didn’t want Buddy due to discipline issues and in turn got both the players they wanted and left us with nothing but Tambling.
February 28th 2013 @ 9:02am
bilo said | February 28th 2013 @ 9:02am | Report comment
I know it’s an obvious one but…Richmond picking Richard Tambling instead of Buddy Franklin in the 2004 draft.
February 28th 2013 @ 9:27am
piesman2011 said | February 28th 2013 @ 9:27am | Report comment
The article was about bad trades not bad draft selections.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:08pm
Australian Rules said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
ah yes, but folau…
February 28th 2013 @ 9:28am
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 9:28am | Report comment
To be fair to the writer Chan (or Charlie to his mates), he does clearly state “this article will only be looking at players recruited by awful trade decisions.”, so Tambling clearly only qualifies for consideration for the ‘trade’ to Adelaide.
Now having said that, does Israel (the person) fall under a ‘trade”?
February 28th 2013 @ 9:39am
Alfred Chan said | February 28th 2013 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Yeh, Folou wasn’t exactly a trade but I included him because he wasn’t drafted or rookie listed either. It was their choice to go after him (like in a trade situation) and the trade off a was a ton of unjustified money rather than a high draft pick, hence he made the list.
February 28th 2013 @ 10:02am
AndyMack said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:02am | Report comment
Wasnt their money though, was afl funded in reality so im not sure how GWS has lost out on this “trade”. Not having Izzy would have freed up one more position on the list, but im not sure number 42 on their list would have got a game anyway. Harsh to put Izzy in this list if im being honest.
February 28th 2013 @ 10:10am
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Good to see someone on here stating the obvious that Folou was a disaster, makes a welcome change form the past 2 years where this site has been inundated with stories and comments about how great he was/will be.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:20am
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:20am | Report comment
Really? That’s pretty bad that such stories written on Roar said this. I am sure you are correct but please provide links to such stories (not comments) which used the words “he will be great” and “how great he was” so I can ignore those writers in the future.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:37am
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Myles on the 21st of Aug last year in an article wrote “Folau has all the body and athleticism needed to make a top-shelf ruckman.”
Adrian Warren in July last year had an article headlined “Sheedy talks up Folau as AFL ruckman”
He also had an article headed “Folau to ‘brain’ AFL: Sheedy”
And another discussing Folau role in GWS’ three headed monster.
Michael DiFabrizzio in an article outlining why GWS didn’t need Travis Cloke stated “While Folau has shown promising signs only in very brief patches to date, the fact is we won’t know truly whether he’s up to it until at least his third season of playing the game”
Davyn in an article arguing GWS wold be better than the Suns said “This brings me to GWS’s great rugby steal, Israel Folau.
This guy has potential; he is tall and fit and moves like a footballer. He has shown ability to adapt well to the 360-degree game.”
I could go on on and on, and that is without getting to the numerous comments.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:07pm
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
The Adrian Warren article appears he is just reporting about how Sheedy is talking him up, not the writer opining ‘how great he will be’ .
Michael DiFabrizzio, as you point out, said “we dont know if he’ll be up to it” as opposed to “he will be great”, so I’ll continue reading his articles.
Davyn says he has “potential”. That’s maybe close, but technically way off “he will be great”. I don’t think that results in Davyn being blacklisted.
I found this http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/08/21/folau-deserves-a-proper-chance-with-gws/ which is very close to “he will be great”….but balanced out with this “doomed to fail” article: http://www.theroar.com.au/2012/03/28/israel-folau-is-doomed-to-fail-with-gws-giants/
The good news is that the quality of the writing still remains pretty good. You had me worried there for a minute !
Lets leave it at that.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:46pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:46pm | Report comment
Strummer – The Adrian Warren article’S may just be regurgitating Sheedy but the were still on this site and still saying Folau would be a star.
And I admit Michael DiFabrizzio’s article did say “it will take 3 years to know if he is up to it” but it is still using him as a reason not to trade for the best contested mark in the game.
And Davyn is clearly talking up that “potential”.
Also those 5 or 6 article were from June to August last year by which time the mounting evidence of Folau’s lack of ability was making it harder to maintain the fiction, if I could of been bothered going back to earlier in the season and the previous year when his abilities seemed to know no bounds I could of found plenty more. Such as Cameron Rose’s glowing Dr Folau & Mr Folau
And finally my original comment was articles and comments, so clearly I wasn’t restricting myself just to articles as you would have it.
Anyone following this site over the past couple of years could see that it has been a love in for the expansion teams and Hunt and Folau in particular.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:01pm
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Its fine Macca.
I was just worried because you stated that there were stories about how great he was/will be*. You’ve now softened this, or rather clarified what you really meant to say, which is fine. If any writer on Roar wrote an article in the context of “Folau will be great” or “Folau was great” or even “Israel will Prevail” I would no longer attend events held by The Roar.
* Only questioning stories rather than comments
February 28th 2013 @ 2:09pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Whatever Strummer!
February 28th 2013 @ 10:34am
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Hmmmm. That money came from the AFL/marketing budget, not from GWS’s salary cap.
Doesnt matter. There are more important things to debate.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:36pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
Folau wasnt a trade at all.
But it was the cheap and easy shot, so he took it.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:47pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
So was the money Folau took!
February 28th 2013 @ 2:00pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
Macca,
And ?
Bluntly, Chris Judd was a bigger waste of money, given that he’s absorbed all that cap room and not delivered a premiership.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:13pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
Ian – Judd cost the blues less money per season than Folau, has taken a side from the bottom to very competitive and hasn’t delivered a premiership YET.
And he may have “absorbed” all that cap room but who has Carlton lost because of salary cap pressures since Judd has been there?
What did Folau do for his money?
Strummer – If you want to see any of the comments I was referring to earlier look up anything Ian Whitchurch has written!
February 28th 2013 @ 2:19pm
Ian Whitchurch said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
Macca,
*shrug* there was complete agreement that Folau had all the physical tools to be an elite AFL KPF.
And he does.
He washed out.
So what ?
Chris Judd, on the other hand, cost a large bag of cash, a large bag of sponsors money *and* a high draft pick.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:29pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:29pm | Report comment
Ian – ” there was complete agreement that Folau had all the physical tools to be an elite AFL KPF.” COmplete agreement? Everybody said so? And there is more to being a footballer than “physical” attributes, you need to have a football brain as well, which folau clearly didn’t have.
To sit back and say that he “could have” been elite is like saying communism “could have worked” or the titianic “could have” sailed from England to the US. The fact is they didn’t.
If he could of why didn’t he?
Yes Judd did cost those things and has delivered exceptionally for the football clud, not finishing outside the top 3 in the B&F and who can quanitfy exactly what impact his knowledge and professionalism has had on the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Bell et el.
If the blues do win a premiership (and they are bloody hard to win just look at how many clubs have won one in the last 12 years) in the next 3-5 years Judd will have played massive part in it.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:46pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:46pm | Report comment
Macca, I think you’re confusing the issue with Folau and his physical attributes. Nobody has said that Folau was going to be a superstar (well very few credible people anyway) but you can’t deny that physically he was almost the perfect athlete for the game. He’s tall, strong, agile and fast.
Obviously there is more to being an AFL footballer then just being a good athlete e.g. basic skills, ability to read the game etc and these were clearly where Folau failed. None of that changes the fact that he had all the physical tools for the AFL. Its just that his lack of other tools was too much for him to overcome.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:54pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
Matt F – Would you be happy if you could date the most beautiful girl in the world but you were never allowed to touch her?
Sure he had a lot of the attributes of a good footballer but in the end he couldn’t play so what is the point. My point is that people got so wrapped up in the physical they disregarded everything else.
Give me a Diesel Williams over a Folau any day! In fact give me Earl Spalding over Folau
February 28th 2013 @ 3:05pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
I don’t think people disregarded anything. Everybody was aware that he had a long way to go in many aspects of the game. My point is that Michael and Ian aren’t wrong when they say that he had all the physical tools because he did have them. If they had said that he was the best AFL footballer of all time then they’d be wrong for obvious reasons
February 28th 2013 @ 3:15pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:15pm | Report comment
I think there is a bit of revisionist history going on here but again so what if he had all the physical tools, he couldn’t use any of them so they are useless. It’s like employing a builder with no hands!
There are any number of people who have the physical tools but they don’t get drafted or paid over $1m a season because they can’t actually play football.
And Matt – for the last couple of years I have been one of the few people on this site to say that Folau wouldn’t make it and have been howled down and abused by Ian and others, now that he has walked away I find it strange that all of a sudden they were only saying “he could of made it” and he “had the physical tools”
February 28th 2013 @ 3:21pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
And? I’m just saying that when people like michael and ian say that he had the physical tools then they would be right. What exactly are you arguing with?
If someone had the profile to bring $1million+ of media coverage and brand awareness then they probably would be paid to do that. In fact numerous sports stars are paid to advertise companies. Surely you’ve seen an ad on TV involving a sports star before? It’s not a new thing
February 28th 2013 @ 3:34pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:34pm | Report comment
My point is that 1) They are saying that now, they weren’t exactly saying that last year and 2) How is it a good thing just to say he has the physical tools when he may as well been 4ft tall and slow as a wet week for all the good they did him.
And here is the difffernce between a sports star in an ad and Folau, the sports start could actually play the game he was paid to play and an AFL game isn’t an Ad, lot’s of people make a lot of sacrifices simply to fail in their attempts to play on the big stage. To throw away games for a marketing exercise is an insult.
February 28th 2013 @ 3:46pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:46pm | Report comment
Michael’s article would have been from last year? I never heard anybody claim Folau was a superstar of the competition a year ago.
Being an AFL football requires a number elements. Physical traits are one of those. Therefore it’s a good thing that he had those attributes. It gave him a better chance of succeeding then if he was 4 foot tall and slow.It was still a slim chance but it helped him slightly.
Threw away games? How many did you expect them to win? If they didn’t have Folau his spot would have gone to some late round draftee who most likely would have failed and probably would have had no greater impact than Folau.
February 28th 2013 @ 3:59pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
Matt F- Last year there were plenty of Articles and comments on here praising the slightest good thing Folau did and predicting he would be a super star, eg “he would “brain” the AFL, etc. Cameron Roses article had him tearing games apart in bursts, Michael used him as a reason not to take CLoke and that he wuold need 3 years, Folau gave him 1. And I am not just talking about articles, the sheer volume of comments praising him and howling down any negative comment was unbelivable but now all of a sudden the were simply saying he had the tools.
And regardless of the chance the tools gave him and how it gave him a better chance of succes than someone like Liberatore he had no success.
And I was talking about throwing away wins I was talking about throwing away games. Giving games to a bloke who hasn’t earned them is an insult to all those blokes who just missed being drafted, or worked their arse off in the VFL for 5 years and never quite made it.
And the late round draftee might of failed, but at least he earned his spot and earned the money he got paid.
February 28th 2013 @ 4:10pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
The big issue I have is that people want to have it both ways, I have an opinion, I am happy to voice that opinion and wear the criticism and admit I was wrong when I am shown to be – others on this site seem to want to always be right, back track on what they said and constantly hedge.
February 28th 2013 @ 4:56pm
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
He’s right.
When Macca mistakenly said that he’s been “inundated with stories…about how great he (Folau) was/will be” he more or less apologised when proven it was incorrect.
February 28th 2013 @ 5:06pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
Strummer – Firstly stop selectively qutoeing, those little dots you put in dramatically change waht I said, just because you were interested in comments doesn’t mean I wasn’t referring to them as well.
What I said was “makes a welcome change from the past 2 years where this site has been inundated with stories and comments about how great he was/will be.” So There have been numerous stories and many many more comments. I didn’t say we were inundated with stories, I said we were inundated with stories AND comments, the combination of both caused the inundation.
Secondly you excluded articles on this site that were “regurgitating Sheedy” when I made no reference to quality of article just that they existed.
And I wasn’t proven incorrect and I didn’t apologise.
I will now accept your apology for trying to verbal me.
February 28th 2013 @ 5:28pm
TomC said | February 28th 2013 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Get a room, boys.
February 28th 2013 @ 5:38pm
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Sorry, I thought you were saying sorry. I am sorry for mistaking your sorry.
So to be clear, you were really trying to say this :
“makes a welcome change from the past 2 years where this site has been inundated with around 3 stories about how Sheedy believes he’ll be great (extremely unusual for a coach to say this about one of his players) and many many comments about how great he was/will be.” ?
Now I don’t mean to be picky but were there really any (and I mean ANY) comments from anybody that stated in the same sentence something like “Izzy was great”. Or, is this a case of me having to separate the “is” and “was” part of your statement as well whereby the “is’es” get heaps more (if any) numbers than the “was’ses”?
March 1st 2013 @ 9:16am
Macca said | March 1st 2013 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Strummer – I did a 5 minute search came up with 3 stories quoting sheedy saying Izzy will be great and 4 others talking about what massive potential he had and that he would burst games open, that GWS don’t need cloke because they have him and that he would be a “top Shelf Ruckman”, all over about a 2 month period – If I bothered searching back the full 2 years or going through every story that mentioned Folau and extracting the quotes relating to him there would be plenty more.
If you then add in all the comments that you conveniently want to ignore you would see my point.
And for future reference when I apologise you will generally see the words “sorry” or “I apologise”.
March 1st 2013 @ 10:11am
Strummer Jones said | March 1st 2013 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Apology accepted. Cheers
March 1st 2013 @ 10:17am
Macca said | March 1st 2013 @ 10:17am | Report comment
You really are a clown Strummer – I thikn I have said this before but I know why you are called Strummer.
March 1st 2013 @ 10:34am
The Curious Case of Benjamin Stratton said | March 1st 2013 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Just let it go Macca. The guy has pulled you up on exageratting a few numbers and rather than correct yourself you try to dig yourself out of a small hole with silly arguments that you meant comments and stories are combined. Its like trying to justify saying that since 1920 North Melbourne has been inundated with Sudanese and Australian born players.
March 1st 2013 @ 10:41am
Macca said | March 1st 2013 @ 10:41am | Report comment
TCCOBS – It isn’t a silly argument it is actually exactly what I said originally, It is gold old strummer who deleted my “comments” with a few well placed dots to try and make his case.
Go back to 10.10 yesterday and read my original comment and you will see “the past 2 years where this site has been inundated with stories and comments about how great he was/will be.”
See the “stories AND comments” – how else would you interpret that other that “stories and comments”
March 1st 2013 @ 2:50pm
The Curious Case of Benjamin Stratton said | March 1st 2013 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
Macca, your missing my point.
Under your rules anyone could mention a singular and a repeated occurance in the one sentence. You said ‘stories and comment’ being inundated. How about my NM example? How about me saying we have been inundated about Carlton cheating scandals and volunteer work over the past 20 years, when scandals = 3 and volunteer work = 100? Wouldnt you question this?
Hey man I’m just pointing it out from the readers perspective. I gotta go.
March 1st 2013 @ 2:59pm
Macca said | March 1st 2013 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Benjamin, The difference in you Carlton example is that they are 2 different topics, I am talking about the one topic just 2 different vehicles.
But if you want to get that technical aout the phrasing of my post go for your life. To me the reaction of a lot of posters on this thread defending Folau from even the slightest criticism proves my point.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:58pm
St Mark W said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Technically, Folau was rookie listed, under alternative pathways or something like that, and most of his earnings came from the AFL’s purse as an AFL ambassador to emerging market.
Whether GWS got value for money is debatable?
February 28th 2013 @ 2:04pm
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
If you read Macca’s comments above, he believes the discussion about Israel and Hunt has been endless. If true (and I am sure he is) then it offers some evidence that it was a marketing success. That was the objective – to get ‘em talking about it and especially those that get emotionally charged up.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:41pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
Exactly. Folau was a marketing tool and it worked brilliantly. The money that was paid to him (most of which was from the AFL as well) was more than returned in the media coverage that followed. He was never signed to be a superstar AFL player. If he turned into one then obviously that would have been fantastic, but his signing was still a major success on a number of levels
February 28th 2013 @ 2:49pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
Rightio LEt’s just say we should only value Folau’s efforts on him being a marketing tool, how many people actually turned up to watch his team play? How much of that media coverage he created has been negated by the media coverage he created by walking out on the club? Did any of the extra support he supposedly deliver stick? What is the message for young gifted Islander kids he was supposed to bring to AFL – don’t bother its too hard? And finally how much “marketing” could have been done with the money he has taken with him?
February 28th 2013 @ 3:18pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
They got about 18 months of media coverage that they would not have received without Folau. That amount of coverage for that period of time is worth a lot more than what they paid him. If they spent that money on buying up newspaper space (or other media formats) it wouldn’t have got them anywhere near as much. That’s a clear financial win. Any expert in marketing and brand awareness will tell you that
It’s not all about attendance figures. This was an attempt to get the GWS brand exposure and ensure that people knew about them. That was clearly achieved. Brand awareness is very valuable for any business
They have lost publicity because he’s left but they’re also not paying him anything any more so him leaving isn’t costing them much at all. Besides why would any of it be negated? Exposure is exposure. The GWS is much more well known in Sydney because of Folau. Even though he’s left people still know who the GWS Giants are.
As for a message to islander kids? Probably that AFL isn’t a game you can take up and expect to dominate straight away. If he came out and said that nobody should play AFL because it’s not a good sport then there would be an issue but he hasn’t done that. In fact he’s still been quite positive about the sport
February 28th 2013 @ 3:24pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
Are you saying they wouldn’t of got any media attention without Folau? COme on!
And brand awarness is very valuable, and now they have a brand that is “GWS, isn’t that the side Folau took $1m from and ran?” It isn’t exactly the brand I would want.
And exposure is exposure is a stupid idea, do you think the Australian swim team is saying that right now?
“As for a message to islander kids? Probably that AFL isn’t a game you can take up and expect to dominate straight away. ” Hardly going to get them running from NRL which was one of the reasons he was supposed to worth the money.
February 28th 2013 @ 3:32pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
No I’m saying that they wouldn’t have got anywhere near as much media attention without Folau. Surely you can’t seriously be arguing that? As someone who lives in Sydney I got a pretty good look at the number of Folau related GWS stories compared to the non-Folau related ones. It was a massive difference.
It’s a much better brand than “GWS? Who are they?”
February 28th 2013 @ 3:40pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
Now that Folau has gone how do you know that won’t be the brand anyway? And why do you think ambivalence is better than a negative brand?
And yes Folau got the “extra coverage” but how effective has that coverage been in building support? Would pumping the extra $1m into grass roots AFL, or Auskick in western sydney or more free tickets to school kids had a longer lasting effect?
And how do you know the amount of extra coverage Folau got was worth $1m, don’t you think that if he wasn’t the story someone else would of been, maybe someone who could of played football?
February 28th 2013 @ 3:52pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
Because people know who they are now. If you know who or what something is you don’t tend to ask “who are they”
The AFL are pumping heaps into grassroots. The money to Folau would have more than likely come from their marketing budget and they clearly got a good return out of it. It was either sign Folau or spend the $1million on ads and Folau generated a lot more than $1million worth of publicity
No. The Sydney media doesn’t tend to focus on AFL players. The Swans don’t get that much coverage unless we’re in the Top 4. If they didn’t get Folau his spot in the paper/TV etc would have probably been given to the NRL as that’s where the most demand is in Sydney. A team on the bottom of the ladder, playing a minority sport in that city isn’t going to get much coverage at all, especially when it’s rival is challenging for the flag and therefore taking away what little press coverage is devoted to the sport.
February 28th 2013 @ 4:02pm
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 4:02pm | Report comment
Tuning around a negative perception is much harder to do then simply creating awareness, once people have formed an opinion it takes a lot to change it, you only get to make one first impression.
“No. The Sydney media doesn’t tend to focus on AFL players. The Swans don’t get that much coverage unless we’re in the Top 4.” Which begs the other question, why bother with a second Sydney team at all if 30 years after the first one no one cares that they are there?
March 1st 2013 @ 1:51pm
Harry M said | March 1st 2013 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Macca because its an untapped market. NRL supporters are begging the NRL to go national so if no-one cares in WS about AFL (I assume you have sampled 2m people) wouldnt that be an untapped market too. The AFL have made some good decisions over the years and see some future
March 1st 2013 @ 2:47pm
Macca said | March 1st 2013 @ 2:47pm | Report comment
Harry M – Iceland is an untapped market too should the AFL go there?
A place is only a market if people actually want the product, by Matt F’s own admission after 30 years and 2 premierships the media in Sydney still don’t cover the Swans much. Based on a report from April last year swans home games only averaged 20k and if memory serves they were still losing money before last year. In 2011 they had just 27k members which was less than the struggling Bulldogs, Melbourne & North Melb and was the third lowest in the AFL, only beating the 2 Qld teams. In 2010 the figures were pretty much the same.
So I don;t have to sample 2m people when the figures speak for themselves. After all if that is how Sydney supports a team that has rarely missed the finals for a decade and played in 3 Grand Finals in 7 years then what hope do GWS have?
March 1st 2013 @ 2:56pm
Matt F said | March 1st 2013 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
Membership numbers aren’t a great indicator because Sydney as a city has never had a membership culture. The Swans membership numbers may be low compared to other AFL sides but they’re greater than those of any NRL side and given that Sydney is an NRL city that’s quite an achievement. It’s no coincidence that the sides with the lowest membership numbers in the AFL are from NRL cities.
March 1st 2013 @ 3:18pm
Macca said | March 1st 2013 @ 3:18pm | Report comment
SO what figures can we use if not memberships? Attendances aren’t that great, profits aren’t good where is the figure that demonstrates this support?
And jsut because the memberships are better than the NRL doesn’t mean they are good, the Swans aren’t competing against NRL clubs. FOr example how many players on an NRL club list? Do the swans have “League clubs”?
And how many NRL CLubs are in Sydney, there has only been one AFL club up there for 30 years, in a city of what 2m people and they can only find 27k members?
February 28th 2013 @ 10:31am
TomC said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:31am | Report comment
Good list, Alfred.
As AndyMack says above, the impact of the Fevola trade went well beyond just the players themselves. Voss’ naivety and inexperience had to be a factor in the club’s clumsy pursuit of a player who was damaged goods, and obviously the club didn’t really know what they were getting themselves into.
It almost seems like that trade was cursed. Bradshaw went to Sydney and was a modest success for a short time before injury ended his career prematurely. Rischitelli went to Gold Coast and has plateaued. Henderson has done okay but has also had injury concerns. Kane Lucas, taken with the pick #12 the Blues got in the trade, has been disappointing so far. Callum Bartlett, taken with the pick #27 the Lions received, has had two knee reconstructions, hasn’t played a game, and is now on the rookie list. It’s a catalogue of woe.
In my own team’s defence, I reckon the Lions might have had a couple of wins in the last two trade periods: Zorko from Gold Coast for pick #34, and Martin from the Demons for picks #53 and #73 (which they wouldn’t have used anyway) look like excellent pickups.
February 28th 2013 @ 10:38am
Macca said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Interesting about the trade being cursed but I still think the blues have come out pretty well, Henderson looks like he could be a great CHB and early whispers have Lucas ready to pop, but you have a good point as it stands right now.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:24am
Strummer Jones said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:24am | Report comment
No empirical evidence, but I now figure Brisbane new full well that Bradshaw was damaged goods himself and was on his last legs, so arguably that was a pretty bad (unfortunate) trade on Sydney’s part.
February 28th 2013 @ 11:51am
Stewie said | February 28th 2013 @ 11:51am | Report comment
Yeah, it was unfortunate. Imagine if he was still playing, with Tippett and Reid *sighs and stares wistfully into the distance*
February 28th 2013 @ 1:18pm
TomC said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
Most likely. He was supposedly already ticked off with the club over what he felt was a low offer for a new contract.
Swans got him in the draft, I believe.
February 28th 2013 @ 2:34pm
Matt F said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
Yeah we got him the PSD so at least Bradshaw didn’t cost us anything, though we did have to pay out a very large contract over three years.
February 28th 2013 @ 10:57am
Andrew Young said | February 28th 2013 @ 10:57am | Report comment
What about Cameron Wood? The Pies gave up a first round pick for the guy and then delisted him three years later with just a handful of games against his name.
February 28th 2013 @ 1:23pm
TomC said | February 28th 2013 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
And the Lions in turn traded that pick for Travis Johnstone to the Dees, who used it on Jack Grimes.
A rare recruiting win for Melbourne, you’d have to say.
February 28th 2013 @ 12:34pm
Chris Marinou said | February 28th 2013 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
What about any North Melbourne and Hawthorn trade over the last 10 years. Jon Hay and Jade Rawlings come to mind which cost them first round draft picks whilst on the other hand Gibson and Hale have become better players since moving across to the Hawks.
February 28th 2013 @ 12:57pm
Andrew Young said | February 28th 2013 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Nathan Thompson – leading goal kicker at Hawthorn for many years. Moves to North Melbourne and is diagnosed with severe depression…..
February 28th 2013 @ 2:27pm
Chris Marinou said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:27pm | Report comment
Lance Picione
February 28th 2013 @ 2:30pm
bilo said | February 28th 2013 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
As a Kangaroos fan those trades were enough to pull the hair out. And they came just a few years after the Roos traded Cameron Mooney and 2 draft picks to Geelong for Leigh Colbert!!!
February 28th 2013 @ 4:48pm
Basil C said | February 28th 2013 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
Its hard to measure Folau’s off field impact but the Fairfax press have ignored the Giants for 3 years and only Folau’s presence gave them some interest. The Sydney fairfax press are continuing to write glowing NRL stories and this year RU stories so its yet to be seen how the AFL will react.. My worst trade but 20 years ago – Centre half back Mckenzie of Carlton for Sydneys No 1 draft pick…