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Vas Venkatramani

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Joined June 2009

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You’re drawing a long bow in trying to make a parallel between the relationship between Australia and England as opposed to India and Pakistan.

One is a harmonious government relationship that enables a confected rivalry to occur whenever they’re on the sporting field. The other’s sporting rivalry is a relief compared to how their governments get on.

Australia was derived out of the British Empire, and to this day, has people defending the fact the British flag is on it. Ask any Pakistani how’d they’d feel if an insignia of Hindu India was adopted on their flag, and you’ll clearly realise how inappropriate the comparison is.

Pakistan fans show amazing grace in embracing Khawaja as he tears their team apart

I don’t think anyone underestimated India’s talent. But from the positions that Australia were in in Sydney and Brisbane, India had to play over the odds to draw and win.

That was very much testimony to India’s superb fight, but it was also handed to them by poor tactics and mental application by their opponents. If those two aspects are better, India lose both Tests.

You may give India it’s rightful credit for its talent and mental strength – those are the two things that Australian cricket has been based on for years that went missing that day.

Australia flirt with hubris in the face of England instability

Likewise – that is the sentiment of most cricket fans, as opposed to customers. I use that term deliberately and provocatively, as that is what people who congregate at T20 games are viewed as. T20 is a product, and customers are there to consume it. The problem is that T20 uses the same resources that are then invested into cricket the game, which has been in place for 140+ years and is now being willingly diminished in order to serve the cash interests of many a stakeholder, as well as people/customers who have an attention span of a goldfish.

There would be no problem at my end if T20 wasn’t administered in a manner that undermined Test and ODI cricket. But that isn’t an accident, but done by deliberate design. And then we have the temerity to ask why we aren’t as good at Test cricket as we used to be?

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

Thanks for the summary Simoc – there are plenty enough people who are very capable of seeing what the world of cricket is delivering. Some of it is quite good, but the priority towards T20 is making the sport worse, not better.

I don’t watch it, so I tick that box. But the T20 circu(it/s) uses the same pool of players that are meant to deliver Test success for the Australian cricket team. It’s like getting a Michelin-star chef to be brought in to cook a bunch of Big Macs.

I get supply and demand economics, but the business model that made T20 so successful could have easily been deployed to make Test cricket better, contract the ODI format to be more punchy and successful, and relegate T20 to the meaningless fare it was originally perceived to be. I’m happy to detail how, but given the overall tenor of your above post, I daresay you’re too myopic to strategise how the game in 2005 didn’t need T20 to survive. It just needed smarter strategic thinking. Hailing the benefits of T20 has offered cricket is akin to justifying the virtues of new coral life around the ruins of the Titanic.

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

I’m ok with people who like T20, and in fact, there has to be a few of them for it to gain the prominence it has.

My question is how you want Australian cricket to define success. Is it winning Test matches and ODI World Cups that will live long in our memories, or is it in T20 matches that are instantly forgotten the moment it’s done?

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

Absolutely, and I agree. My opinion will change as new details come to light.

In the meantime, I have nothing else to operate on to make a different conclusion. Anyway, I’ve said my piece. Nice debating this with you, as it is a good discussion to have.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Fair comment Damo – that was done probably in anticipation of people mentioning it, and from inspection, only one or two others did. But I accept that I didn’t do myself any favours there. Mea culpa.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

And yes lol, I have been in a relationship that has developed for months. If you ask my wife, she’ll say the relationship is still developing after 10+ years (with some speedbumps along the way).

And yes, mistakes can be made. But as a general rule, it’s probably best to avoid anything that could be construed as actions without consent, no matter how tempting the urge is.

Submitting to temptation at the expense of cognitive function is not as readily excused these days as it was previously.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Not the sexting per se Paul – if it’s consensual, it’s fine and dandy.

Everything up to the image of Paine’s member’s end was done with consent. What happened after that could be construed as criminal. I’m not making a values judgement here, but how the law can be used and interpreted.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Your second paragraph seems fair in that I’m making insinuations on what has been released. Until such time I learn more, my insinuations seem justified.

When the details change, so does my opinion.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Paine sent an image that had not been given consent. That is harassment, and under a legislative framework, can be criminally charged.

The issue people don’t know this exemplifies at either how prevalent this behaviour is in society, or how often women feel powerless to stop it. Or it could be both – whichever it is, that is an issue.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Up until the sending of the image, there was no issue. Him being a philandering husband is a matter between him and his wife.

In any situation of this nature, consent matters. Things of a sexual nature is like boxing – if both parties don’t consent, one of them is potentially committing a crime.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Read the comments around you mate – a sufficient sample of people are more concerned about comparing it to England’s (or more specifically Yorkshire’s) problems and/or learning the identity of our new skipper rather than addressing the issue at hand.

I don’t find it surprising, sadly.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Can we assume as a general rule that no woman ever asks for that? And if they do, it’s because they directly ask for it.

There’s a great line from an Indian comedian I follow called Vir Das (he’s in the news right now for some choice comments about India), where he says “if women were really asking for it, she could just ask for it!”

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Absolutely true, but again, we’re trying to dumb down the grave nature of this story by looking to comfort ourselves by saying “at least it wasn’t x/y/z”.

This story has been out for barely a couple of hours, and already people are more concerned about finding our new Test skipper and minimise Paine’s offence rather than actually give this the attention for what it merits. This is how a culture of this type of behaviour endures.

We should be talking about this and this alone, not try to change the topic towards more trivial matters. Those things’ time will come.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Duly noted – so lying is a greater offence than possibly something of a criminal nature? Got it.

Whether they got a year for ball tampering or for lying, CA is not showing themselves in a good light here. To me, the message is that lying about ball tampering is a graver offence than harassment of your organisation’s female employees.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

It may be more insidious as a result of how long such an endemic culture of racism has been allowed to endure, but I don’t think now is the time to ascertain moral equivalency. The phrase “a pox on both your houses” seems apt.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

I dont think any of us can judge what is worse unless you are a woman of colour. They’re on the wrong end of the barrel on both counts there.

Let’s just agree both of them are worse than tampering a cricket ball.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

Absolutely Damo – CA only saw this as an issue if it made the public sphere. And they made Paine captain knowing this was in the background.

For the last two weeks, we’ve sat with mouths open at the findings from English cricket re Azeem Rafiq. Time to look into our own backyard.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

So two big issues for me.

One is that the offence is perceived as bad enough to lose the leadership, but not necessarily his spot in the team? It sets a really terrible message that somehow tampering a ball (punishment: one year ban) is a graver offence than sending unsolicited sexually explicit material (punishment:loss of leadership, but still retain opportunity to be selected).

The second is the notion that this was only ever serious enough to warrant a punishment once it hit the public sphere, yet Cricket Australia were perfectly comfortable in harbouring a person who had knowingly committed a transgression of a sexual nature, so long it was kept private.

And I hope I’m wrong, but I get the bad feeling people will see this as a less serious offence than what happened in Cape Town.

'Deeply sorry for the hurt and pain': Tearful Tim Paine resigns as Test captain over sexting scandal

I’m content never seeing it again in my lifetime. It was special due to how unique it was.

I am not looking purely at results, but also at process and setup. The setup is geared towards T20 success on the field and off the field, and success and failure in Test cricket, the format that Australian cricket has built its heritage on, has been flagrantly disregarded. I mean, the apathy in which two consecutive home series losses against India tells you the tale on how little we regard now our fortunes in the form of the game that should be front and centre in our nation’s cricketing consciousness.

If Australian cricket did everything to set itself up to succeed in Test cricket, and still lost, I could make my peace with that. But we don’t, and then we shrug casually before embarking on another meaningless T20 endeavour.

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

It’s fanciful for me to expect Australia or any team to reach that level again. But that’s not the point here. The point is that we’ve neglected the setups that permitted us to ever reach that level in the first place.

Had we had the right setup, a spare parts India side do not win at the Gabba or stubbornly draw at the SCG.

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

You could be right, but over time, there was a common understanding that the skills and abilities from 50-over cricket could carry into Tests, and vice-versa, as they both have the capacity and the scope to showcase aspects of patience and aggression. Maybe not so much in the modern 50-over game with scores routinely higher than 300, but back then, a score of 200 was very competitive, and the bridge between the two forms was less.

But aside from setting up a big lead in the second innings that requires quick scoring, I don’t know what skill sets T20 prioritises has made Test cricket better. I may be myopic, but I daresay T20 has compromised batsmen’s ability to survive tough bowling, but rather hit out. That may be a method that works, but it’s a low percentage one against good quality bowling with swing and seam movement.

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

I know I’m not the target market, and as you say, that part is okay. I don’t need the product to fit my exact standards, and nor ever will it. I’ve made my peace with that.

I agree with your point about how the BBL subsidises the Shield, allowing the players to remain professional. That is extremely important as you say. But that does not abrogate CA from some of their decisions that have left the Shield competition – which is the basis of which all of Australia’s historic success has come from – as something to wilfully neglect.

The strategy to try and find Australian dominance via the BBL and T20 is fanciful – India can do this far better than anyone else can, given the dominance of the IPL, and the fact their rules state no Indian cricketer can partake in foreign T20 tournaments. I wouldn’t mind such a rule being implemented by Cricket Australia, where only the BBL and IPL are sanctioned by CA as competitions that players can participate in if they also wish to represent the national team. It sounds radical, but in a pool where only 66 people at any one time can represent our Shield teams, taking away half of that to dabble in T20 tournaments worldwide dilutes our ability to produce batsmen with solid techniques and bowlers who know how to persist with a line and length.

These are the things that have been lost via our obsession with T20. Like you say, I’m not the product’s target market, but I am also not voiceless in my ability to state the startingly obvious at how T20 has made Australian cricket worse, not better.

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

Some good examples Paul re the Olympics. And I agree with you that I don’t think more Aussies are engaged in T20 than in Tests or ODIs.

However, the focus given to T20 by administrators and players means the quality of the product in Tests and ODIs has diminished. Sure, we’re seeing more fours and sixes hit, but given that you sound like a purist, I daresay the joy of hitting that four or six wasn’t from that, but the fact it was built into the wider narrative of scoring after surviving a period of sustained bowling pressure.

That’s the issue – T20 boxes into a highlights package, but strips away everything around the narrative of what made cricket so compelling in the first place. There is a place for T20, but it should never have been done as a way to take our eye off Tests and ODIs.

'Beneath meaningless': Why the T20 World Cup warrants recognition, not celebration

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