By ren
October 22nd 2008 @ 2:20am
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Perth’s new stadium is already in doubt
Perth’s new stadium has been put in doubt by the new Liberal Premier, Colin Barnett. As part of a deal with the National Party that gave the Liberals the majority, Barnett pledged a quarter of Western Australia’s mining royalties to regional Western Australia.
This equates to removing $625 million from the State’s bottom line. With a number of large infrastructure projects in the pipeline, Perth’s new football stadium is in the firing land.
There are further concerns for those in favour of the new stadium:
“I do find it difficult in my mind to justify a billion dollars of tax-payers money on an extra 20,000 seats,” Barnett said, after a cabinet meeting yesterday.
So what does Barnett offer to appease the West Australian sporting public?
The proposal from the West Australian Football Commission to redevelop the aging Subiaco Oval has reemerged as an alternative for the Premier.
However, Barnett did not rule out building a new stadium.
Barnett said he will meet AFL chief Andrew Demetriou this week to discuss the options for a new football stadium at Kitchener Park or a progressive rebuild of Subiaco Oval.
So what does this mean for West Australian sport?
Both the West Coast and Fremantle Football clubs had more members than seats available this season, though they rarely filled the stadium. So there is no doubt there is a need for a larger capacity in anticipation of better days.
The Force desperately need a rectangular ground with Subiaco being blamed for declining membership numbers and crowd attendances.
So it can be presumed that the Force would be in favour of the proposed entirely new stadium, which is to have retractable seating.
The Glory are in the midst of another poor season and their entire future has been cast in doubt by both major West Australian papers.
As a result, the needs of the Glory are unlikely to be considered as it is extremely unlikely that they will fill the old Perth Oval in the foreseeable future, barring finals or ACL games, which both seem as unlikely as a full stadium.
However, with constant talk of Australia’s bid for an upcoming football World Cup, there is still a need for Perth to have a suitable stadium for hosting international football.
Such a requirement is, again, like the Force, in favour of a retractable seating stadium.
So what will Barnett do? Redevelop Subiaco or build a new stadium at Meuller Park?
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TommyM said | October 22nd 2008 @ 8:28am | Report comment
I can assure you that the majority of Force fans are most certainly not in favour of the new stadium.
The proposed retractable seats are similar to those at Telstra Dome, where they are almost never used. Deploying them costs tens of thousands of dollars and involves the lifting of turf at the edges of the pitch. Under the current proposal the WA Football Commission (WAFC) would have control of the new facility and would most certainly not allow such a process to take place week to week if at all, especially in the latter end of the S14 season when the pitch would be shared with football.
What Force fans want is a dedicated 30-35,000 seat stadium, similar to the one currently being built in Melbourne, which would afford an incomparably superior view of the game and atmosphere to Subiaco. Given the amount of money that this would cost however, the suggested compromise is rather to redevelop Member’s Equity Stadium- initially 25,000 and later to 30-35,000, and with a significant investment in corporate facilities.
The Force currently regularly get 20K+ to their home games, which would cause a short term problem in that ME Stadium only fits 18,000, but such is the antipathy towards Subiaco that it appears people would rather miss out for a year on tickets than spend another one there.
Tests and the like would certainly still have to be played at Subiaco in the meantime, but perhaps as part of its redevelopment retractable seating could be worked into the design (most likely only to be deployed in test situations though if WAFC has anything to do with it).
Michael C said | October 22nd 2008 @ 9:03am | Report comment
ren -
However, with constant talk of Australia’s bid for an upcoming football World Cup, there is still a need for Perth to have a suitable stadium for hosting international football.
care to review this line.
Talk of a bid is enough in your mind to equate to a need.
Should a bid be agreed to, then should it be deemed that Perth would host, then - and only then - is there a need for anything - - -but then, it’s only a need to develop a proper plan -
either
Perth DOES get designated to host
- and then to build a soccer friendly venue
-or adapt/upgrade existing venues
or
Perth DOES NOT get designated to host
- soccer doesn’t enter into the equation.
—————
SHould a bid be launched and ultimately be successful, so long as there are some decent options on the table - then, like South Africa, Japan, Korea etc - - the 4-8 years leading in can be spent happily building said venues.
—————
the need for one code to be forced to compromise too much is interesting -
when the AFL clubs have waiting lists for seat allocated memberships - - it doesn’t matter one bit that the venue is not filled each week if the majority of seating is effectively sold out. I know for many people that buying WCE memberships was out of the question due to capacity, and so, they even went as far as buying Freo memberships - just to be able to get to the footy and to access local derbies.
Given that the 2 AFL clubs are presently being held back - - there’s is a compelling argument for a larger venue.
The Force - - well, perhaps there is a real case that people are boycotting a venue and opting, in doing so, to not support their team. That’s sad. But - - at a certain point, people have to realise that they are the new kid on the block, and that it just seems plain petulant to jump up and down about lack of ideal or exclusive facilities when they should still be grateful to have a Super 14 team to support (if that’s their prefered code)…………..just seems some people are trying to flex their adult muscles before sporting puberty……..put the V12 engine in a mini cooper………put the B-triple trailors before the horse…..
Koala Bear said | October 22nd 2008 @ 9:21am | Report comment
“Both the West Coast and Fremantle Football clubs had more members than seats available this season, though they rarely filled the stadium. So there is no doubt there is a need for a larger capacity in anticipation of better days.”
Ren,
can you elaborate on the above statement ie to why the members who paid their hard earned money to attend games through their memberships, but then fail to turn up… ?? Or is it that the AFL supply free tickets to Freo and WC to distribute to Auskick programs then are not acted on.. ??
~~~~~~~
KB
Michael C said | October 22nd 2008 @ 9:38am | Report comment
KB -
I’ll have a go at answering this one - - -
why did people who had bought tickets for the sold out SOcceroos match against the Guitarists in Brisbane last week not turn up?
The weather.
why do some people buy high level memberships and not use them during the season more than once or twice? Often because it carries a guarranteed access to Grand Final tickets.
why do some people buy allocated seat memberships and not turn up to every game? Some elderly folk like to sit together with the same people, but can only attend day matches and not night
likewise family groups with young kids - - may only be able to attend a small number of the games
But - - in that position you are willing to pay that little bit extra in advance to know that -
A. you don’t have to queue for tickets at the time and risk missing out
&
B. you don’t have to battle the General admission areas and end up stuck up with the Gods (a million miles from the action)
If you don’t understand these issues - then you show perhaps you soccer pedigree too well, i.e. the domain of single males - - so, for a minute, just imagine yourself at an AFL game with 45% women (of all ages), with young kids and families………….these issues are quite important……….especially at venues for which there is super limited general admission ticketing.
Koala Bear said | October 22nd 2008 @ 10:07am | Report comment
MC,
sorry your answer does not explain anything I don’t already know.. Sure there are some in Sydney and Melbourne that are rolling in dough and pay exorbitant amounts of money for SCG and MCG memberships as my eldest brother did but we are talking about WA (”rarely fill”) where there is no GF or SoO whatever; plenty of freedom of movement… on basically clear days over an entire season…
As for those who did not turn up at Suncorp for the Socceroos match that incrediable night as I live on the GC it was an amazing flashing of lightening that would have made the Australian Secret Services think twice about ones safety .. We are talking of clear weather here in WA … Understand…
~~~~~~~
KB
Midfielder said | October 22nd 2008 @ 10:11am | Report comment
MC
Will bite only this time as maybe emotion got in the way of a otherwise decent reply post ……… but you said …
“then you show perhaps you soccer pedigree too well, i.e. the domain of single males - - so, for a minute, just imagine yourself at an AFL game with 45% women (of all ages)”
The A-League and Socceroos have similar numbers of women at matches, and Football has a W-League starting soon and huge player numbers at park level ……… and it has been said to be the fastest growing sport in Australia (Womens Football). There is a World Cup for Womens Football, Olympics for womens football, Asian cup for womens football.
So this idea that only AFL has women ……..Errrrrrr ………. sorry not true
Koala Bear said | October 22nd 2008 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Middie,
Oh not to mention those future Matildas…. Back later, need make love to my wife… 
In fairness to MC I think he was referring to those fat Bogon MacDonald burger types that attend the MCG with tribes of free ticket holding brats … He has no concept of the W-Leagues and the beautiful athletically sculpted female bodies who will procreate the future Socceroos for the 2018 FIFA WC in Australia …
~~~~~~~
KB
ren said | October 22nd 2008 @ 10:55am | Report comment
KB-
Currently for WCE- following ticket allocation to members and opposing fans there are just 1000-1500 tickets available to the general public. And if you think it is always clear weather here in the west you are wrong, simply put when it rains in perth, it pours down. I think michael c covered your question well, throw in the fact that this was WCE worst season ever and their fans are very fickle.
Tommy M- As one of those regular 20,000 I agree that a rectangular ground would be better. However I dont see ME as a genuine alternative, it is after all a suburban ground. With regards to your concerns about WAFC, they will only be managing the ground if it is a redeveloped Subiaco, The new stadium at Meuller PArk (despite being adjacent to Subi) would be managed independently of all the governing bodies.
Michael C- I threw that in to cause a little stir to be honest. Having seen ANZ o tv the seats look really badly positioned, not facing the centre but rather running parallel to the square. (Can any one confirm this) As such it is my preference for an oval stadium without the retractable seating. The difficulty in this is that the WACA is in the throes or redeveloping their East Perth home, removing footballs logical partner from the equation.
Considering all this my preferred option was to develop a sporting precinct on the Burswood Peninsula. A 60,000 seat oval and 30000 seat rectangle on the train line, across the road from belmont race track and adjacent to the freeway. The problem with this is the cost, mainly associated with dealing with the geology of the local soil.
Shaun said | October 22nd 2008 @ 11:50am | Report comment
To all those doubters about the proposed stadium’s suitability for the rectangular codes, take a good look at this video: http://www.perthstadium.com.au/index.php?id=48 and this article: http://www.perthstadium.com.au/index.php?id=69 .
If as the article states “Sitting on the sideline at a Western Force game at Subiaco Oval you are currently 31 metres from the action, but with Perth’s new stadium you will be just 15 metres from the sideline and dead-ball line!
WA rugby fans will be closer to the action than crowds currently attending similar events at Sydney’s Telstra Stadium and Melbourne’s Telstra Dome” then surely it will not only be adequate but great. I’m sure that the Force would love a Suncorp or an SFS, but really they don’t have the pulling power- the AFL do!
Gerry said | October 22nd 2008 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
Shaun,
Thats IF the WAFC deem it suitable to extend out the retractable seats. Given that they wont even mark the Rugby lines properly in a childish attempt to styme Rugby.
Norm said | October 22nd 2008 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
KB..”and the beautiful athletically sculpted female bodies who will procreate the future Socceroos for the 2018 FIFA WC in Australia” …just wanted to check that we’re not talking about Doris..
Koala Bear said | October 22nd 2008 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
Norm,
have you noticed that Jimbo has been missing for some time on the this forum..
Ren,
I had no idea it rained every weekend during the Grooky season ..
Shaun,
that looks very impressive … But will it fly..?
~~~~~~~
KB
Midfielder said | October 22nd 2008 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
In the current economic climate no government of either colour State or Commonwealth …….. other than for a WC bid will invest in new stadiums. The WC stadiums only then if we are successful in the bidding process.
In NSW there is not a single piece of infer-structure managed by the NSW State Government that is not falling apart, it would be a brave government to build a new stadium instead of a new TAFE or Bridge in NSW. I assume other states are in similar situations ……..so WS / SA, QLD are not about to commit either as I see it, Vic will finish their new stadium, NSW will finish SCG and may upgrade WIN but that’s about it for the foreseeable future as I see it.
Shaun said | October 22nd 2008 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
KB-
I definately hope it will fly- perhaps not so quickly in the face of politics though..
Gerry- If you take a look at the article in question you will see that it says: “Taking no more than eight hours to reconfigure the stands using this high-tech system, a Friday night Western Force crowd will be out celebrating while the stadium will be converted to AFL mode for the next West Coast Eagles or Fremantle Dockers home game.”
Management will be determined by an independant trust, as ren alluded to and as the website also says:
“The new stadium will be owned by the government and governed by an independent trust.
Day to day management of the new stadium which includes the oversight of bookings, hirers, scheduling, catering, cleaning, maintenance and ticketing will be determined by the trust prior to the completion of the stadium.”
http://www.perthstadium.com.au/index.php?id=33
So you just have to hope that said independant trust won’t be filled with pro-AFL members..
I have faith(despite my not living in Perth!) that this will go ahead and be probably the best thing for ALL codes in Perth.
mudskipper said | October 22nd 2008 @ 2:26pm | Report comment
Western Australia is the land of the generous deal and the home of the big Deal-breaker…Push for a purpose built rectangular field Force fans and accept nothing less.
Traditionally stadiums are built over time and don’t have to be built complete with one huge cost up front, look at the MCG still been added to this year.
A more modern example is the Canberra Stadium built alongside the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS), it has been added to over years and even after 25 plus years it still has room for development. Furthermore it’s a great well pointed modern stadium to watch rugby and sits in its semi bush environment comfortably.
A realistic finical development plan is what is needed; another example is Skilled stadium on the Gold coast.
ren said | October 22nd 2008 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
midfielder- there has been a lot written in our local press how Rudd’s future fund will largely go to sydney, mainly because perth and others have managed their infrastructure well. The new railway line has recently opened, the eastern line is being extended and groundwork has begun on the new hospital. The only thing put at risk by the stadium is the royalties to regions scheme, and tax cuts (which are currently being slated). Though I am a little confused as to what has happened to our $2 billion surplus from the last state budget.
Koala Bear said | October 22nd 2008 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Shaun,
I certainly hope it gets off the ground; it really is very impressive and if the 2018 FIFA world cup is won; no doubt it will get also Federal Government support .. It is very interesting to see in the Video that the both ends of the stadium come in as well as the sides that is what has been a gross negative in the Sydney Olympic (ANZ) stadium .. It certainly looks like it will do the job for 4 codes of Football and Cricket .. Sure hope the 2018 FIFA world cup comes to Australia so it will happen
~~~~~~~~
KB
Midfielder said | October 22nd 2008 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
Ren
Not to sure if this will make you happy or sad …….. but in NSW our state gov does not know what a surplus is …… and everything is falling apart …… in by elections last week there was about 30% swing against the NSW gov …… if this swing holds true in the state election NSW labour will hold about 3 seats and will no longer be seen as a major political party as per rules of NSW parliment ……… thats how bad everything is run down.
Gerry said | October 22nd 2008 @ 4:19pm | Report comment
Shaun,
Since those Stadium Taskforce forums were written the WAFC through the AFL convinced the ex Carpenter government that they would be dissadvantaged if they could not run the Stadium ( ie screw $250,000 out of the Force each home game).
While the Stadium Taskforce says it can re-configure the stadium in 8 hours the other clause in the report is that ” the Eagles and Dockers are priority tenants” - and based on previous experience over here that means they they can do anything they like to disrupt Force game eg pre booking game time over Force games as happened with the Crusaders match this year where we had to play on a Sunday afternoon in terrible heat or not marking the lines fully so that they can paint them out easier for their games the next day.
http://www.weneedcorners.com
Westy said | October 22nd 2008 @ 9:22pm | Report comment
I merely say this in information only. The federal Cabinet was today considering the proposal to support Australia’s world Cup bid including its requirement to have 8 grounds available across the mainland states with a minimum 40000 capacity.
Midfielder said | October 22nd 2008 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
Westy
SMH …….. said the report shows a net income to Australia of over 3 billion ………
Michael C said | October 23rd 2008 @ 5:37am | Report comment
Gerry -
we hear your gripe - - - - but, really, why should it be any different??
Redb said | October 23rd 2008 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Westy,
Therefore both Adelaide and Perth are fine.
Redb
Midfielder said | October 23rd 2008 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Just adding to the Perth position is the AU having made the ACL finals cannot even get seating improved … secondly the treatment of football ……. By as I understand it by a non football person saying what football folk have been saying for yonks now
Plus an AU story coming out of Adelaide.
(http://business.theage.com.au/business/tvs-switch-to-a-different-game-20081021-55j2.html)
The minister told the Senate estimates committee on Monday: “The free-to-air networks should hang their collective heads in shame for how they’ve treated football (soccer) in the past.
“We should thank Foxtel and Austar. Without them we wouldn’t have an A-League,” he said, referring to the lucrative rights deal the subscription networks signed with the Football Federation of Australia that has ensured regular coverage of A-League games and the Socceroos’ World Cup qualifying matches, after Channel Seven held the rights but rarely broadcast soccer.
(http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/comments/0,22638,24540050-5006301,00.html)
Over 100 comments to this story running in Adelaide Now
No more seats for Reds’ final
October 23, 2008 02:30pm
THE State Government will not install extra seating for Adelaide United’s Asian Champions League final against Japan’s Gamba Osaka next month.
Instead, the Government is in talks with the Adelaide City Council to erect a large screen in Elder Park to cater for those who cannot buy a ticket to the match.
Sport Minister Michael Wright said there was also a problem with availability of suitable temporary seating
Comments
This State Government not installingl extra seating is no surprise. This is the same State Government whose leader stated that AAMi could be upgraded to accomadate world football on advice received. yeaaaaaaaaahhh
Posted by: c of in las vegas 5:27pm today
Comment 128 of 128
Telecast and broadcast to millions - SA Government will have faces redder than a United shirt. The world will realise what we already know. GO YOU REDS - so proud of you all
Midfielder said | October 23rd 2008 @ 5:32pm | Report comment
Just adding to the Perth position is the AU having made the ACL finals cannot even get seating improved … secondly the treatment of football ……. By as I understand it by a non football person saying what football folk have been saying for yonks now
Plus an AU story coming out of Adelaide.
(http://business.theage.com.au/business/tvs-switch-to-a-different-game-20081021-55j2.html)
The minister told the Senate estimates committee on Monday: “The free-to-air networks should hang their collective heads in shame for how they’ve treated football (soccer) in the past.
“We should thank Foxtel and Austar. Without them we wouldn’t have an A-League,” he said, referring to the lucrative rights deal the subscription networks signed with the Football Federation of Australia that has ensured regular coverage of A-League games and the Socceroos’ World Cup qualifying matches, after Channel Seven held the rights but rarely broadcast soccer.
(http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/comments/0,22638,24540050-5006301,00.html)
Over 100 comments to this story running in Adelaide Now
No more seats for Reds’ final
October 23, 2008 02:30pm
THE State Government will not install extra seating for Adelaide United’s Asian Champions League final against Japan’s Gamba Osaka next month.
Instead, the Government is in talks with the Adelaide City Council to erect a large screen in Elder Park to cater for those who cannot buy a ticket to the match.
Sport Minister Michael Wright said there was also a problem with availability of suitable temporary seating
Comments
This State Government not installingl extra seating is no surprise. This is the same State Government whose leader stated that AAMi could be upgraded to accomadate world football on advice received. yeaaaaaaaaahhh
Posted by: c of in las vegas 5:27pm today
Comment 128 of 128
Telecast and broadcast to millions - SA Government will have faces redder than a United shirt. The world will realise what we already know. GO YOU REDS - so proud of you all
ren said | October 23rd 2008 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Interestingly in today’s west the WAFC said that they preferred a new stadium vs a redeveloped subi. Their main gripes being it would be equally expensive and at times have a greatly diminished capacity
Midfielder said | October 23rd 2008 @ 7:08pm | Report comment
Ren
In your opinion aside from winning a few games what do the Glory Boys need to do to get back their crowds.
Some have said that the controls by FFA in Hal 1 on shed behaviour has turned the Shed support away …… and the colour the shed brought to Glory is a miising part of PG today ……. ant views ……
ren said | October 24th 2008 @ 3:00pm | Report comment
honestly midfielder im not sure. There has been some word of one of the original owners getting involved once more. (Afkos, i think). but my main concern with WA sport is the footy and the warriors (I’ve got a good feeling about this season) so i dont feel I have the necessary knowledge to make any judgement. having said that i think you have asked me this before.
just a quick thought- the development pathways for jnrs. in footy there is a clear path for kids with auskick, jnrs, school, amateur, country leagues, wafl, afl. Rugby is improving this but there doesn’t seem to my mind to be anything happening from soccer. (when I was at primary school in the late nineties, we had a couple of footy, cricket and even hockey skills sessions each year, never soccer). I guess it leads to you watch what you play.
Paul said | October 27th 2008 @ 6:01pm | Report comment
With the new stadium now in doubt, maybe the Libs will pull their finger out and force the WAFL to co own the new stadium in it’s rightful location………. BURSWOOD. The demolition and subsequent sale of the land at Subi will more than cover the costs of a joint run brand new stadium on the Burswood Peninsula. Let the residents of leafy Subiaco have their peaceful existence back and let’s build the friggin’ the right !! A brand new state of the art stadium on the city’s eastern doorstep, showcasing the river and the peninsula is obviously the only way to go.This amounts to a lot more than just a stadium. The whole peninsula could be turned into a new family friendly entertainment precinct along the river bank where everyone can enjoy the facilities either before or after a game, concert or show. Imagine a stadium with a ferry terminal to transport fans, a monorail link with the casino, Perth foreshore and Northbridge for people to “kick on” afterwards. Burswood were willing to pour in $500 million toward creating a wonderful area for everyone to enjoy……….. Subiaco already is bursting even when footy season finishes, here is a wonderful chance to create a new sporting/social precinct away from the crowded laneways of Subiaco, Fremantle and Northbridge…..the opportunity is here to showcase our city to the world in terms of a world class destination as well as putting on world class events !! The money is there, the land, the developers, the vision, the opportunity as well as further financial backing to complement the area, all that’s needed now is someone with the balls to make the right decision. 75,000 seats and nothing less………..so for the next 50 years, SORTED… Or is it just me ???