By Rhys Thompson
May 28th 2009 @ 2:03am
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If the Brumbies can’t win in 2010, they never will
Brumbies' Peter Playford gets away, Brumbies V Reds - AAP Image/Mark Graham
In the past few weeks, there has been much exchanging of talent between the Super 14 squads. But the undoubted beneficiary of all this jockeying has been the Brumbies.
The team has only gotten rid of people they really didn’t need, and haven’t really lost any stars who have a big impact on their team. Let’s say that both Rocky Elsom and James O’Connor sign up, as it appears they may, then their best team appears like this:
1. Ben Alexander
2. Stephen Moore
3. Guy Shepherson
4. Peter Kimlin
5. Mark Chisholm
6. Rocky Elsom
7. George Smith
8. Stephen Hoiles
9. Josh Valentine
10. Matt Giteau
11. Francis Fainifo
12. Tyrone Smith
13. Stirling Mortlock
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper
15. James O’Connor
16. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
17. Huia Edmonds
18. Ben Hand/Mitch Chapman
19. Salvi/Chapman
20. Pat Phibbs
21. Christian Lealiifano/ Matt Toomua/ Gene Fairbanks
22. Afusipa Taumoepau/ Matt Toomua
This Wallaby-ladened team would strongly rival the Brumbies championship teams of 2001 and 2004, and may, if they stick together for a few seasons and play to their potential, be one of the greatest ever groups of Super rugby players assembled in one team ever.
For a betting person, the smart money must go on the Brumbies for 2010.
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(51)
Matt said | May 28th 2009 @ 6:35am | Report comment
It does look very good on paper, but you have to factor in individual playing styles and more importantly, coaching plans. Then again, the Brumbies have been known to coach themselves to Super titles.
Be interesting to see how it all gels, but one thing is for certain, as much as Canberra can be beautiful in spring and autumn, it’s mighty cold in winter. Elsom, Giteau, O’Conner (if he signs) and Valentine are not moving to the ACT for the scenery, they must think they have a very good crack at the title.
rugbyskier said | May 28th 2009 @ 8:09am | Report comment
Cue the hemjay troll in 3,2,1….
Seriously though, as a Brumbies supporter I hope that these signings will augur well for 2010 but I’ll be realistic by recalling the adage that a team of champions does not necessarily make a champion team. That said, the systems in place at the Brumbies have worked in the past, like Matt I wonder if 2004 was a championship where the Brumbies won despite not because of their coaching.
Pippinu said | May 28th 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
If it’s a squad that can have a tilt for a few years, then the title of this article is a little bit askew.
ballboy said | May 28th 2009 @ 11:28am | Report comment
While it is exciting to think that O’Connor and Rocky are coming to the Brumbies, it may not equate to a title…but it should! The Tahs had 10 selected Wallabies in their line up this year, the Force 8 and the Brumbies 6. This didn’t equate to where they finished on the ladder. With my slightly closed left eye I would say from those numbers the Brumbies did better considering their International reps. Almost double that next year and, yes, they will be in for a great shot.
James B said | May 28th 2009 @ 11:30am | Report comment
The Blues are a star-studded line-up, and look where they finished this year. The Brumbies look like a good team on paper, but they will need to avoid injuries, win more away games, and have some luck to win. For example, finishing top of the round robin and securing a home final is important.
Hemjay said | May 28th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
Have to say the Wallabies oops I mean Brumbies on paper look bloody awesome. It would be a great team and should win the competition. However will this give the SA and NZ coaches 15 weeks to plan and plot the demise of their tri-Nations foes?
Rugbyskier if you thought I stuck the boot in this season just wait to see what will happen next year if this star studded lineup fails to deliver.
We all know that a quality team on paper does not equate to success on the field. If so the Tahs and the Hurricanes both would have one or two titles each by now.
Now I have to ask you you Aussie blokes how will this be beneficial to Australian rugby having a large portion of the quality players Australia does have in one team. Especially now that the real possibility of a fifth franchise is on the horizon?
By stacking one team you surely are consigning the rest to the dust bin surely noone in Australia from the other franchises will want to see their own team get thrashed year in year out by the Brumbies or do you really think the Reds, Force and Tahs to some degree are going to be happy that the Brumbies win the title that they are effectively being robbed of any chance by their countrymen?
These are just some questions I’d like answering from both Brumbies fans and other franchise supporters from within Australia.
Once again the team looks sh#t hot on paper and they would surely be top dog to win the competition and if they can pull iot off all credit to them.
reds fan said | May 28th 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
Well we believe in a free market for players, so no one (administration) is stacking anything. Perhaps the only ones “stacking” the Brumbies are the players themselves, by choosing to go there.
How it impacts other teams??? Well as a reds fan…. SNAFU.
I do wonder where all the money is coming from though.
Sam Taulelei said | May 28th 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Sorry this is a ridiculous notion because it assumes that while the Brumbies have become strengthened with their latest recruitments that all of the other teams are standing still. On paper I would expect anything less than a top four finish from the Brumbies to be a failure but to win it, depends on other factors than just talent.
reds fan said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:04pm | Report comment
it’s a fair guess that some of us are standing still Sam. hahaha!
AndyS said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
It will certainly apply the pressure if it does turn out that such a team of champions does not make a champion team, and you’d have to expect that it would be reflected in Wallaby selection. If they don’t make it, someone would have to carry the can – either the coach failed miserably, or all those champions don’t mix (and therefore shouldn’t all be put together again at international level), or any “non-champion” player was a massive liability and dragged the whole team down. One way or another, it it a high reward strategy that will also be high risk for someone.
Jason said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
I wouldn’t mind having Moore, Chisholm, Elsom & O’Connor back home in the Sunshine state where they belong. We might at least finish 3rd last if any rugby player had any pride in where there from anymore..
matt said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
When Auckland rugby is strong, the All Blacks are strong..or so the saying goes.
The Brumbies were in, or winning finals in 2000, 2001, 2004.
How did the Wallabies go in those years?
In 2000 Australia retained the Bledisloe Cup, and won the Tri Nations for the first time. They repeated this in 2001 and also achieved their first ever series win over the British and Irish Lions.
2004 not that grand although we did beat World Cup winners England, and South Africa and NZ (once each).
Jets said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:30pm | Report comment
While the Brumbies would be the favourite Australian team for the Super 14 title I think it would be silly to say that they will be the only one pushing for the top 4.
This is going to hurt as I am a loyal Reds fan (Read insane). The Tah’s came close to making the Super 14 finals this year on the back for a good forward pack and a backline that had no direction. With the addition of Mitchell at 15 and with some time to play with their rejigged combination I think that the Tah’s should make the final 4.
Also there is a rumour that Justin Harrison may be back in town and, with the Tah’s needing a lock, he could be in sky blue next year. I would think he would add some more fire to the forward pack. Also if Dunning gets the money from the ARU they will have one of the best packs in the comp.
The Link said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
The Brumbies ‘culture’ once again was exposed as a myth this season, they’ve always relied on having outstanding individuals in key positions when successful. Hence having Giteau back and getting O’Connor will make all the difference. Watch how the Force will fair next year without them.
Looks like their only way to turn around 5 years of failure is to buy their way to the semis.
mudskipper said | May 28th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
What’s most important with Rhys Brumbies possibles for 2010 is that world-class players at key rugby positions with extended talent filling in the gaps… Flyhalf, Hooker, Openside flanker, Blindside Flanker, Outside centre… And the others like AAC, O’Connor, Alexander, Kimlin, Chisholm, Tyrone Smith and Valentine.
But its quality depth which brings home championships, Toomua, Salvi, Chapman, Alfi Mafi, Edmonds, Hand, Timani, Phibbs, Lealiifano and Betham…
The Coaching depth in specialist roles is also important, Head coach Friend, Assistant coach Rea, Scrum: Young, Forwards: Finegan and Kicking: Huxley…
Gatesy said | May 28th 2009 @ 3:24pm | Report comment
It definitely isnt the climate that they come here for….but some of us don’t mind the cold!
I predicted in my blog back in February, that Toomua would turn out to be a star this year. Nearly there! He will feature large in the U20’s and may be a bolter for the Wallabies, later in the season.
What a team and what depth. Let’s hope Julian Salvi stays on, too!
The Bruce Stadium Crowd will have something to roar for, next year, and if the atmosphere gets anything like the golden era, we’ll all be braving the cold to be a part of it.
Craig said | May 28th 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Link, Bit harsh when you consider the key post they were missing the last few years has been a quality 5/8. They were grooming Giteau and he went West. I wouldn’t call that ‘buying the their wat into semi’s’. You want to talking buying go look at the Tahs and their league poaching efforts both successful AND failed….
Who Needs Melon said | May 28th 2009 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Link: What a crock. Did you make up yourself that the Brumbies culture is a myth or did you hear that from someone or somewhere else? If so, I’d love to know where. I know several guys who have played for the Brumbies (admittedly none are current players) and all attest to the good culture there as a major factor in their success. You just don’t get to be as successful as the Brumbies have been without that. Maybe it has lessened of late – i don’t know – but I do know that it is wrong to claim it is a myth.
Hemjay: I have mixed feelings about the Brumbies nabbing all the ‘best’ players. On the one hand some claim there is the tentpole effect – that having one really good team drags up the rest by them wanting to compete with them, emulate their success and grabbing the underdog status. I don’t buy into that… but I’m also into a completely free market and not making players play for a club they don’t want to… and I guess this is the result.
Bay35Pablo said | May 28th 2009 @ 5:11pm | Report comment
How nice to see the Brumbies with high expectations on them. Having suffered through years of the Tahs being lauded as the superstars of the S14 (remember the late 1990s?), I”l be interested in seeing if they choke or deliver. While they have delivered the goods more than the Tahs, don’t think I won’t take great pleasure if they do choke and remind every Brumbies supporter I have to put up with at the SFS (and Bruce if I get there) of the fact for the next few years.
Of course the question is how they can be allowed to corral all this talent when the Reds have been suffering for years, and the Force have never had much depth and have just lost 7 top players. I’m happy to take Mitchell, but NSW could have coped without him if need be I think.
Although I have always been reluctant to endorse the NZRU approach of spreading the talent, for fear of mediocrity all round, this is starting to make me change my mind. The Tahs don’t usually have to worry too much about depth and talent, given we churn out the most players (and the issue is usually what we do with it). However, I don’t like seeing the Reds and Force be poor cousins for too long (the pleasure of putting the Reds to the sword finally and now repeatedly is beginning to wear off).
Given the Brumbies had recruited and trained some great young talent, especially in mid field, it beggars belief why they are (re)recruiting others and thus consigning them to the bench. All would be better served by having the players all exposed at different teams. Wasn’t that the point of having 4 sides?
The Link said | May 28th 2009 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Melon – Its not made up, any decent culture that was there is long gone. Look at the facts, where has ‘culture’ got them in the last 5 years? nada.
Craig – well NSW are the best performed Aussie S14 team of the last 5 years. This is fact.
Hemjay said | May 28th 2009 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Melon,
I must say I have to agree that you shouldn’t force players to play for a club they don’t want to, but what I am against and from a NZ perspective we have seen what happens when teams fill their roster full of stars you see the demise of the unions who lose their stars. In NZ teams have fallen from grace such as Counties Manukau went from NPC champions to 2nd division strugglers and look doomed to head that way again.
One thing that is blatantly obvious in Australia is the lack of loyalty shown by many of its top flight players. While I can see their reasoning for going somewhere they think they can win a title, I also see that players throwing the towel in and moving along is adding to the demise of teams such as the Reds and what kind of example is it setting for the younger players. If the stars won’t stand by a beleaugered club why should they, Digby comes to mind here. At a time when Australia / John O’Neill are talking about player development and another franchise what will this say to SANZAR about Australias franchise chance? All the stars are already signed up to two clubs are you telling me that the Force and Reds could still bleed enough talent to the 5th team and still have a realistic chance of surviving let alone competing. Will ACT / Australia A winning the competition make rugby more popular in wider Aus?
Until a sense of loyality is established within Australian rugby I think two super clubs is all Australian rugby could ever hope for the next three will just make up the numbers at the bottom of the ladder.
The advantage the NZ franchises have is the provincial loyalty and that the franchises are selected from the domestic competition with each province aligned to a super team. While we do have a draft system that the Highlanders have benefitted from this year. There is nowhere near the same movement that there is in Aus.
The bonuses of having all these guys in one to two teams is that they will become comfortable playing alongside each other and it will make it easier coming into test matches. If I was Toomua I’d be looking at going somewhere else and I think he would be best suited playing against the likes of Giteau rather than waiting for him to get injured.
The team on paper looks very very good and will be red hot favourites to win the competition next year. However I do have concerns. While a very good looking team they potentially could lose there are no guarantees that this team will win. Look how many quality players were in teams like the Sharks / Stormers / Hurricanes and Waratahs yet they still failed.
I’m excited thinking about the prospects of this team, yet I have my concernsfor Australian rugby. I do think that in the pursuit of excellence that the top quality players and the Brumbies management could seriously be jeopardizing Australian rugby and also their chance of getting the 5th team.
Hemjay said | May 28th 2009 @ 5:42pm | Report comment
The NZ system is a very good system in my eyes but then again i would say that.
Due to the provincial competition players are automatically available to the respective franchise
Blues – Northland, Harbour and Auckland City
Waikato – Counties Manukau, Waikato and Bay of Plenty
Hurricanes – Taranaki, Manawatu, Hawke Bay and Wellington
Crusaders – Tasman and Canterbury
Highlanders – Otago and Southland
Should players not be selected for their home franchise they are then placed into the draft from which the other franchises take their pick if they so require the talent.
Players do switch provincial allegiances to give themselves a better shot at super rugby but it is nowhere near as common as the movement in Australia. Willie Ripia is originally from the Waikato but he was up against just to get NPC game time let alone Super rugby so he signed with Taranaki got alot of game time in one of the most competitive truly domestic competitions in the world which in turn made him available for the Canes.
Until Aus has a domestic competition it would be a little hard to model itself on the NZ framework but it does highlight how it could be done. As it now stands every single NZ franchise has made a final and the majority of our teams are very competitive as our best play against each other week in week out.
Brumbies fans will be licking their lips but is it in selfishness and against the greater good of Australian rugby?
reds fan said | May 28th 2009 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
Hemjay I totally agree about loyalty within Australia. For players, its all about money and avoiding the dud teams. Probably mostly about avoiding the dud teams.
The Reds are the result of a shallow player pool, but not in the way some people think. We have enough players for four teams, but we dont have enough when talent is highly concentrated. And then once you are a dud, its hard to break that cycle. And then the perceptions are entrenched, and young players developed in an area leave without even considering their home state/territory.
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | May 28th 2009 @ 6:36pm | Report comment
Link….agreed the Tah’s are the best performed team over the last 5 years….and just how many Super titles have you won? Yeah…thought so NIL, Zip, None, Nada…..Until you rectify that, don’t even try and compare the Tahs to the Brumbies…in 2004 we even won without the coach.
AndyS said | May 28th 2009 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
RF,
Actually, I think we probably have more than enough players for five teams. But they are not visible because there are no development mechanisms in place to have brought them up to the required level. There are only four professional teams of thirty odd players so, unsurprisingly, if all the top players congregate in one or two teams the rest look thin.
It gets similarly thin if they are spread over five teams. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t people with the talent to replace them, just that everyone outside of the favoured few has had part-time training at a semi-professional level (at best) and are going to need a lot of work. Once there are five teams it will look just as gloomy, because there is nothing underlying the Super teams.
Craig said | May 28th 2009 @ 8:08pm | Report comment
Link, Thats true no doubt. But I do object to statements like they are buying there way to semi’s when the ONLY person they have signed for sure is Giteau. The rest is heresay. Oh and the TAhs have bought all the high profile league talent and done nothing with it. They are the biggest chokers in Oz rugby. This too is fact
Craig said | May 28th 2009 @ 8:11pm | Report comment
Hemjay, Aside from the Force joining the comp. Aussie player moevment isn’t that common amongst star performers. Sure the guy who are in and out of sides move a fair bit but not the starting Wallaby 15.
Dan said | May 28th 2009 @ 9:21pm | Report comment
Melon,
Wholly disagree with you on the movement of players issue. In fact I think the idea of a “free market” in sporting terms is a bit of a misnomer; purely the result of economic liberalists who believe so whole-heartedly in their doctrine that they assume it must be applicable to all aspects of life. To start with, there are no real truly free markets to begin with, and in any case allowing unmitigated growth simply leads to monopolies. This is most certainly true in sporting terms. Just look at the Premier League – the perfect example of unregulated growth; fourth teams capable of winning with the rest essentially being “also rans”. The premier league may be successful, but so is the NFL, and if there were a model I’d be attempting to emulated, it would be the latter. As far as I understand it, the Americans see the league itself as the product on the greater market and thus feel greater equity among the teams achieves a higher level of satisfaction among the supporters and thus increases interest. In that sense I would argue that Rugby and competitions like the S14 etc ARE the “product” and therefore need regulation in order to garner interest. It’s no good having a system that leads to dynasties that change hands amongst a privileged few and make the competition seem predictable and boring to outsiders… It’s harder to regulate globally dispersed games like soccer or rugby, but it’s by no means impossible and if it can be done it should be done.
reds fan said | May 28th 2009 @ 9:25pm | Report comment
sorry to go off topic, but is the baa-baa’s match live on free to air tv?
Brett McKay said | May 28th 2009 @ 9:51pm | Report comment
i bloody hope so Reds! I presume ch7 will show Fox’s vision again..
By the way, I can understand the Brumbies might be Elsom’s preference, but i hope the Reds get him..
The Link said | May 28th 2009 @ 10:59pm | Report comment
ilike… 5 years is a long time to be living in the past. Brumbies have done well to win 2 titles, but have done nothing since. This is why I cringe every time I hear about the greatness of the Brumbies culture. You want a culture – look at the Crusaders, how many semis have they made in a row, let alone the titles?
Craig, the topic of this article is about assuming Elsom and O’Connor are going to be signed by the Brumbies. If signing arguably the best 6 and possibly 10 in the world, as well as the best up and comer isn’t opening up the cheque book big time then what is.
If you asked the Tahs 5 years ago that buying some League players could contribute to them being ethe best Aussie S14 side for that period then they’d probably take it, likewise the buying of players for the Brumbies now.
Matt said | May 29th 2009 @ 6:27am | Report comment
Canberra is no tropical destination. Why would players want to bring their families and live there?
No one forces them to sign with any franchise, it’s all up to them and their managers.
So why do they go? For the development of their game, the greater opportunity to crack the Wallabies.AND the culture. Players have made mention of this time and time again. You can have a great culture and still not be semi finalists.
I played in a team with a fantastic culture, but we got flogged regularly. Conversely, you can have an unhappy team of stars ocassionally winning as well.
A good culture can help the boys play for each other and perform better, but it does not automatically add up to victories, esepcially when the other team is better!
As for Tahs buying leaguies, that was as much supported by the ARU for publicity, as it was for any on field benefits.
Anyone who knows anything about ACT rugby will know that because of the tiny corporate dollar in town, they do not, and can not offer the sorts of big dollar deals that the Force and Tahs can. Hence the persistent rumours that the Brumbies will move to Victoria for financial reasons.
Who Needs Melon said | May 29th 2009 @ 6:39am | Report comment
Dan,
I take your points. But look at it from a players point of view. Is it fair that the choice of a playes own team, team mates and location be taken out of their hands? And what happens if a monopoly naturally develops – i.e. a team for whatever reason becomes a team of world-beaters. Do you then rip that team apart and distribute its players elsewhere?
I usually find the NFL, NBA, etc. drafts bizarre with players traded like bits of horse-flesh.
I guess the salary cap concept is designed to be the happy medium and I don’t have a problem with the salary cap concept. Nor do I have a problem with a player earning a few (alright, a lot of) bucks on the side through sponsorship, ARU topups, etc. It all comes down to where the lines are drawn and how well they are policed. I’d love to see the figures for each of the provinces players.
Ben C said | May 29th 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
Interesting that it is the older players, Waugh, Smith, Mortlock etc, who you get that vibe of team loyalty from. The current crop seem to be more mercenary. For example, Digby Ioane is a great talent but he demands to the leave the Force and is now conducting his contract negotiations in a very public forum that reflects poorly on him. I know it is the way of professionalism but surely some loyalty and team spirit can still be engendered. Berrick Barnes thankfully appears to be a counter point to this trend.
Link suggests that the Brumbies have lost their culture. Given the more frequent movement of younger players in search of the best deal, I think that in some way all teams are losing their culture to a degree as the team becomes a workplace rather than a ‘team’.
craig said | May 29th 2009 @ 7:57am | Report comment
Link, As you seem so keen to dealonly in fact I thought I would mention that Elsom and O’Connor was only speculation, but I guess when it doesn’t suit its no good.
Anyway, I think you’ve highlighted the difference in culture and why the Tahs are chokers and underperformers. They will accept being the best Australian team. The brumbies want to be the best in the whole comp!
Bay35Pablo said | May 29th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
Being the one eyed Tah I am, I just say this. Loyalty:
Reds – Latham, Roe, Croft
Tahs – Waugh, Burke (would have stayed but was let go)
There are more for each, but I’m in a rush. Smith staying at the ACT springs to mind too.
There are some players who will hang around for loyalty even though they could have earned more elsewhere or in Europe.
I don’t know that it is the younger players that are more “mercenary”. They tend to be the ones that are trying to break into an established side, so they will go elsewhere to do so. That was really the problem with the Reds when the Force started up. They nicked a few starts, but the main thing they stole was their depth. The players that took the chance to go to the Force and step up (Pocock, Brown, O’Young, etc) were all fringe players. But not having them to fall back on, for the Reds, has lengthened their slump when the Lathams, Roes and Crofts left or were injured.
Part of the problem is also the loyalty shown to players by the team(s). You can hardly blame blokes like Hewat for going to Europe when the only thing keeping him out of the Wallabies was Knuckles and some pity pick (I’ll steal Hemjay’s term are recycle it) leaguies. I know some didn’t rate him, but he was top points scorer in S14, and never got a look in Robbed!
Simon said | May 29th 2009 @ 8:36am | Report comment
I hope the Reds get Elsom. It would be good to see the Reds build and rise again.
Bay35Pablo said | May 29th 2009 @ 8:46am | Report comment
As indicated in the media, I suspect it is unlikely Elsom will go to the Reds. While it would be a great shot in the arm for them, and perhaps help attract some other players, I expect he wants to play in a team that can challenge for the title in the next couple of years. he wants to play test footy, and RWC2011, but after that he may well head back to Europe or in 4-5 years time. In that time he will want to get a title, and the Reds may not be able to do it in the time frames he wants.
The ACT and Tahs can.
andy said | May 29th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
You say the Brumbies have only lost players they didn’t really need. Not true – Gerrard’s departure leaves a big hole and the Brumbies will miss his huge kicking and distribution skills. As an indication of the loss, when he got injured, the Wallabies full-back (AAC) was an inadequate replacement. Fairbanks is also leaving – he has been a valuable cover for the inside backs and will be missed.
Traditionally the Brumbies have not poached established players from other provinces, transfers have been only of young players or those who couldn’t get a start elsewhere. (There have been exceptions of course – Giteau is a Brumbie anyway, he’s just been on holiday, and Moore was a trade for the Faingaa twins).
As a Brumbies fan I would like to see that continue – it’s what makes the culture. I would much prefer us to keep Chapman and Salvi and for Elsom to go to the Reds and O’Connor to stay with the Force. The team will be competitive anyway.
fred said | May 29th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
ANDY,I HOPE YOU GET YOUR PREFERENCE,cos the reds arent standing still theyre going backwards and rocky would bring hope ;otherwise more dysfunction and depression
Bay35Pablo said | May 29th 2009 @ 11:18am | Report comment
There is talk that the tahs will cut their current squad of about 30 or more by 3 or so players, given financial problems (i.e. GFC and crowds down). This includes decent players with S14 time like Playford.
The move to the Super 15 has caused Hickey to suggest the squad will have to be the larger number we had this year to cope with the longer season, but I don’t know if this means the cut for next year won’t go ahead.
If it does happen, the Reds should snap these boys up. Even if they aren’t 1st XV players, and NSW is not hanging onto them, they are still decent players. NSW’s problem has always been it can’t hang onto every good player it produces locally. The Brumbies and Force are happy for that.
The Reds have a tendency to recruit their own, but there is a history of NSW players going to the Reds to get a start (and vice versa sometimes).
Given the Reds major issues with depth, and having to blood new players with very little experience just to keep a full team on the park this year, the tahs loss may very well be a great gain for the Reds to help bolster their squad.
If we end up with Playford & Co in Reds jerseys putting tries on us next year, I’ll be spewing!!!! But it’ll be good for Australian rugby.
ballboy said | May 29th 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Your’re all getting a little carried away with the Brumbies. As I stated before, adding O’Connor, Gits and Rocky will merely take the Brumbies quota of players in the current Wallaby squad to 9 – one less than what the Tahs had this year and 1 more than what the Force had. While personally stoked that we are getting Gits, I think it is a shame the reds seem to in a never ending hole where players just won’t want to ge there and that’s not good for Aust rugby. I also don’t adher with stacking a side as we need to keep the crowds coming to games in all states. Further more I feel sorry for the Brumbies younger players who have stood up this year – Toomua especially. But that’s the game. Whitikar lived in Gregan’s shadow, as have numerous other players through the years. Interesting topic for discussion – Who’s the best player to be benched because a better one had been around from any country?
Hemjay said | May 29th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
McCalister Benched behind Carter
Jerry said | May 29th 2009 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Frano Botica was bloody good for years but only got a few cracks at the 10 jersey for NZ due to Grant Fox.
Sam Taulelei said | May 29th 2009 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
All Black Steve Pokere was benched for Auckland behind Kurt Sherlock, Mary Holah behind Richie McCaw, Duane Monkley behind Michael Jones, Zinzan Brooke behind Wayne Shelford, Robbie Deans behind Allan Hewson.
Spencer said | May 30th 2009 @ 7:18pm | Report comment
Currently the ARU doesn’t recognize or reward player development and loyalty.
Andy’s comment above mentioned 4 key players: Chapman, Salvi, Elsom and O’Connor. These are all players that were developed in Queensland. In fact if you look at the Wallaby squad and the 4 Australian S14 teams they are stacked with QRU developed players. The Reds had the incedible misfortune of the alignment of several factors: the Force was formed, QRU administartion was poor (still is?), and a lot of the Reds established players were nearing the end of their careers.
I would like to see a system were the ARU top-ups (which I undertsand are the majority of the salaries) are increased by 25% for players that were developed in that province. This would force WA Rugby and ACT Rugby to invest more in their own player development pathways.
andy said | May 31st 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
According to the Brumbies profiles, Julian Salvi attended Marist College in the ACT and captained Australian Schools XV in 2003, joined the Brumbies straight from school in 2004 and made his S14 debut in 2005.
I’m not sure how Queensland comes into that.
Spencer said | May 31st 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Andy… my apologies. You are right, Julian Salvi is indeed a born & breed Canberra player. Which ironically further supports my point about implementing incentives to retain and develop own players. It would be incredibly disappointing for Julian if he is forced to leave the Brumbies because they have recruited Elsom. It would be interesting to see what percentage of each of the four S14 squads is developed in which provinces.
Whilst I have no problem with players moving between provinces and obviously the Force (and lesser extent the Brumbies) needs to get players from somewhere, there must still be some return on investment to the province that develops a player. I don’t propose transfer fees, but merely some financial recognition when the negotiation starts.
andy said | May 31st 2009 @ 10:17pm | Report comment
Spencer, I agree entirely. Clubs expect loyalty from their players and they should show loyalty to the players. As I said before I hope Salvi stays in Canberra and that Elsom goes to the Reds. As to financial compensation for clubs who have developed players, I had the same thoughts when Gits went west.
death said | November 26th 2009 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
Brumbies Officially favs for the comp according to bookies Force tipped to finish last reds 2nd last and tahs 4th
Oh and Melbourne new club in 2011
Vires said | February 10th 2010 @ 3:07am | Report comment
Just as a footnote, one should keep in mind that a considerate amount of shuffling has basically amounted to most springboks ending up in either the already bok-packed Bulls or the Stormers teams in South Africa. Any team aiming at ultimate glory will have to keep the Hurricanes, the Bulls and the Stormers in eye as a trio of considerable opposition (if the coaching is there mind you…)