By Gabriel Knowles
June 11th 2009 @ 4:50am
Related coverage
Should the NRL give the Wild West another chance?
National Rugby League CEO David Gallop at a press conference at NRL headquarters. AAP Image/Mick Tsikas
This Saturday night, top flight rugby league is being played in Western Australia again, which gives the people of Perth the chance to show the NRL whether or not their state is ready for a team again.
Only a handful of NRL games have been played in Perth since the Reds were disbanded following the 1997 season with a reported $10 million debt accrued by flying opposition teams out to face them.
The swine flu scare hasn’t helped with much of the game’s lead up coverage being dominated by the threat of the match being called off. But the word is that 10,000 seats of the 18,000 capacity Members Equity Stadium have been sold already.
That’s pretty good message to send NRL headquarters but to be fair anything even slightly positive is sure to be pretty well received by David Gallop and co at the moment.
Whether or not that’s enough to get the Reds front and centre is another story, though.
The Force have shown that the potential is there for the Perth public to take to a new team. Their reasonably impressive crowd averages suggest that the market is there for an oval ball code that isn’t AFL.
The problem is that WA Reds are yet to get a win on the board in the Bundaberg Rum Cup this season, their second in the division following last year’s introduction which Reds officials trumpeted as their first step on the road back into the NRL.
Unfortunately, you’d have to imagine that their side’s inability to get a win so far this season is jeopardising the alleged plans for the Reds to join either the QLD Cup or the NSW Cup before stepping up to the NRL.
While it isn’t a make or break criteria, a strong competition and pathway for local players is high on the NRL’s agenda for incoming sides, as it should be.
But in this case, is there an argument that the NRL side is needed first to generate the interest required to promote their efforts?
At the moment, the WARL First Grade competition only has eight teams and produces some fairly lopsided results which points, understandably, towards a lack of depth.
WIth an NRL side and the lure of more professional contracts, the standard would undoubtedly improve as better players moved west to try their luck.
The Storm have shown just how quickly the presence of a professional team can have an effect on local and specifically, junior competitions.
Whether or not that’s enough for the NRL is a big call.
But you never know.
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My favourite player of all time came from Ainslie. I just don’t think you see the value of building a fourth strong 2nd tier league using the QAFL as the base....
Kurt said | June 11th 2009 @ 6:26am | Report comment
Sure, why not? No reason an NRL club in Perth couldn’t be at least moderately successful. Of course like the AFL’s planned expansion into WS it will take realistic expectations, patience and reasonably deep pockets, but if those things are in place then I would think it would be worth a go. However rather than start a team from scratch, why not relocate a struggling Sydney team? I know this is seen as worth than death by some fans, but if done properly can provide a broad support base for the relocated team.
roary said | February 13th 2010 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
There is not enough interest for RL outside of NSW and QLD.
They tried it, went bust, game over.
Gosford is the way forward.
Crosscoder said | June 11th 2009 @ 7:53am | Report comment
They should never have left Perth in the first place.The game has the 3rd largest number of juniors after NSW and Qld ,and has a base on which to build.Already business people are being courted for a NRL application,should the NRl decide to expand,and it looks a lay down it will in 2013.
The Reds are not in the B Cup just to fill aspace IMO,as it is not a cheap exercise re travel.
The people behind the bid much prefer a Reds team,than a relocated one ,from what I hear.Forget relocation,it gives other codes a big leg up.
Kurt said | June 11th 2009 @ 8:14am | Report comment
How does relocation give other codes a big leg up? The way I see it there are probably 2 types of league fans in WA: Those who are genuinely committed to the sport (expats etc.) and will watch whatever team is in Perth as a way of supporting the sport; and those who are curious, might come along to watch a game or two and will either drift away or become serious fans. In either case what’s the problem with a relocated team, I mean it’s not as if there’s a big traditional rugby league club in Perth with established supporters who feel disenfranchised.
True Tah said | June 11th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
I understand that in some of the mining areas of WA, rugby league is more popular than AFL, due to the large number of mining staff coming from Queensland.
macavity said | June 11th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
should never have left. yet another example of News Ltd’s attempts to constrict the game and segment the nation.
Chris Beck said | June 11th 2009 @ 9:04am | Report comment
This is off-topic a bit, but nearly every article about the NRL features this same exact photo of David Gallop at the top of the page. I always wonder what the question was that resulted in the look on his face.
Working Class Rugger said | June 11th 2009 @ 9:12am | Report comment
True Tah
It’s close to AFL in the Pilbara. Not quite there but close. Apart from that only Kalgoorlie have teams. Up here there was a 6 teams competition due to the high number’s of ex pats over here, but it’s now a four team competition as Damipier no longer competes and one of the two Karratha based teams have folded for the second year running.
Brett McKay said | June 11th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Chris, I’m thinking “David, what was your favourite Two And a Half Men episode?”
Sorry Gabriel, that was an unnecessary diversion, but Chris made me do it. My only question about an NRL team in Perth is whether both rugby codes could co-exist?? I’m sure there’s enough corporate support, but is there enough punters for both??
Finno said | June 11th 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Yeah RL should spread it wings back to Perth, Adelaide, another Qld team, 2nd melbourne team, 2nd NZ team. I think they should be prepared to cope a loss for 5 -7 years though. You really cant expect 20,000 people to rock up to these games. If the NRL what to really league to be national maybe its a good time to expand. The question is which sydney clubs will be folded to make room?
Znotty said | June 11th 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Yes….the Western Reds went alright before but only if a Sydney teams gets the axe.
MarkH said | June 11th 2009 @ 10:11am | Report comment
Im not so sure. The NRL already tried this a few years ago and it flopped. It cant go to a 19-20 team comp without some teams folding. Already people are talking about Nth Syd bears going to the Central Coast, Cronulla folding..it dosnt make good business sense. Finnos right, your not going to get the numbers for a starter. It could lead to even more issues financially for the NRL.
JF said | June 11th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
Why this obsession with expansion? RL has significant populations of die-hard fans in NSW and QLD without a connection to a current NRL team, Central Queensland for example, and you want a team in WA! The NRL should focus on improving support and protecting their interests in their home states before such expansion is warranted. Why is it that football codes are obsessed with expansion? The english super league is limited to a relatively small geographical area, but produces a quality, successful competition that is heavily supported by passionate local fans. It seems, particularly in Australia, the football codes get caught up in this pissing contest of who can expand further, who has the right to be called a truly national game, who will be the first to take over the world.
Towser said | June 11th 2009 @ 11:37am | Report comment
JF
Have to agree JF.Having been brought up in the North of England what you say is spot on. Although brought up in a football city(Sheffield) I dont remember the pissing contests(aptly named) that go on here. In fact if you look at the North of England RL towns sit next to football towns within kilometres of each other & indeed some like Bradford,Leeds,Hull have well supported teams in both. I always remember an old chinese proverb about the twigs & sticks. gather a few sticks within close proximity to each other & put them in a bundle. Add other sticks from around the area & the bundle gets stronger.
Individually the twigs are weak & easily snapped. So what RL is trying to do is get a twig in Perth gather other twigs around it to make it strong. Problem is theres bugar all RL twigs in Perth, the bundle is in NSW & QLD so its easy to snap it. Better to add to the twig bundle in NSW/QLD to make it stronger. You’ve only got to look at how the stand alone Melbourne twig is always having to try & get hold of NSW/QLD twigs because its got none of its own.
Cracker said | June 11th 2009 @ 12:08pm | Report comment
Quite right JF – they all seem to be scrambling for territory and new markets like there’ll soon be nothing left. Maybe they are right but I have no doubt that some footy clubs will go under in the next few years as a result of there being such massive exposure to sports teams across the country.
Cracker said | June 11th 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
Very good twig analogy Towser
Towser said | June 11th 2009 @ 12:29pm | Report comment
Cracker
Glad you twigged on to it.
Finno said | June 11th 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
I think the RL is concerned that while AFL, soccer and union are looking to expand, I suppose they feel they have to expand as well. AFL is very cautious with expansion and soccer is to agressive. If AFL move to the western suburbs of sydney it will probably survive and even be a success. But if you shut down, Cronulla and move them to Western Australia there could be a risk of the Western Australian based team folding. You would be left with nothing except a debt and egg on someones face. Its insane to think that Qld has 3 soccer team and 2 League teams. Soccer success yet to be proven. Why the NRL hasnt got a club in Toowoomba or Rockhampton is amazing to me. I think Parramatta, Penrith, Cronulla are probaly ripe for the picking. The fans have to get use to it and you need plenty of time to let the idea sink in. The NRL will not survive with more teams. And Sydney teams will not survive if they dont move to Qld
macavity said | June 11th 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Finno, you don’t follow RL, do you?
ren said | June 11th 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
perth needs and deserves a team in the nrl as soon as possible. We have the third biggest junior base and continually win the assosciated states championship. Melbourne only came bout because of NEWS, that license should of stayed in the west. The reds are the forgotten victims of super league. Not given any time to build a solid foundation before super league the fast rise in player payments wiped out the reds.
Tom Alexander. said | June 11th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
Expansion in everything will always happen burger chains shopping centres cinemas when the population grows more people want to be entertained people forget Rugby League already had a 20 team competition in 1995 that was so successful that Murdoch and Packer fought for control over it and so began the Pay tv AKA Superleague War unfortunately so much damage was done that the crowd figures during that massively successful period have never been equalled except in you guessed it the free to air and pay tv veiwing domain but probably needs more carefull planning this time around.
Crosscoder said | June 11th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Kurt.
I am talking about a leg up in the areas,where the club once was located,not Perth.
Relocating a Sydney team does two things alienate a fair % of the local Sydney fans ,who are either members/attend regularly local matches,and whether we like it or not removes the tribalism which the SL war has shown exists to a large degree in the game.Result some fans and not an inconsequential number drift off to other codes.It hass happened in joint mergers,and Nth sydney getting the flick.
How does it give other codes a leg up? Current local juniors ,can try to get in adjoining clubs or look at other alternatives(other sports).The incentive to play for the local area as a junioris taken away.Sorry it happens.
It is essentail the Perth side is set up like the Titans.Local team not a relocation and full inter relationship with the community.
Finno said | June 11th 2009 @ 2:57pm | Report comment
macavity
I am a football fan but will watch any sport, I live in Qld and if you watch sport and live in Qld its pretty hard to ignore league. yeah sorry 3 teams in Qld, but Gold Coast is hardly part of Qld.
Are you suggesting that the competition get bigger? Just look at the crowd figures for NRL in Sydney compared to outside Sydney. writings on the wall for at least one Sydney based team
Crosscoder said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:05pm | Report comment
Finno
Gallop has made it patently clear,the survival of the Sydney clubs is paramount,unless of course there is a financial disaster for a club,which the NRL will not be involved in financially assising,but left to its own devices.
The assumptions that Penrith,Parramatta and Cronulla due to the latest dramas,will result in folding are premature to say the least.Do you know exactly what is going on within these clubs, to ensure their long term viability.
The reason the NRL claim their Tv contracts are not as big as the AFL’s, is due to the latter being a national game.Yet ignores the fact rugby league reams the opposition in the main on Pay TV,and is completely dominant in NSW and Qld(57% of the viewing market).
if the NRL were so concerned because the other codes were expanding,they would not wait until around the TV contract negotiations,but wham bam immediately say we are going into Perth and the CC.They are working slowly slowly.Ever thought the other codes were concerned if they didn’t expand they would be left in the lurch
So Qld has 3 soccer teams and 2 league teams.Now let me work my fingers Cowboys/Broncos/Titans uh oh damn 3 rl teams in Qld.
The NRL in Perth has as much chance of surviving as a west sydney AFL team.Perth have already had a team there,West Sydney has not.
Towser
The twigs you are talking about are being gathered in Melbourne,with 11 locals in the under 20s side near the top of the ladder,and the vast majority of under the under 18s side that contested the G/F this year Victorians.
There are apparently 10,000 twigs who have purchase tickets for the storm/Souths match.That number would make rl teams like Harlequins and Celtic Crusaders envious. There are sufficient twigs in WA to have the 3rd largest number of rl juniors statewise in Oz.
Let us all get back to a suburban comp and work inside the square seems to be the thinking by some.
Finno said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
Yeah regret the miscount, bloody Qld education system.
Redb said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:20pm | Report comment
Crosscoder,
“The reason the NRL claim their Tv contracts are not as big as the AFL’s, is due to the latter being a national game. Yet ignores the fact rugby league reams the opposition in the main on Pay TV,and is completely dominant in NSW and Qld(57% of the viewing market).”
The NRL and TV execs do not ignore the fact an AFL game goes for 120 minutes compared to the NRL’ s 80 minutes, the advertising potential etc.
One swallow does not make a summer- TV deals are for 5 years as far as ratings are concerned. AFL in Sydney is in decline, going up again in Brisbane though. In fact Brisbane ratings for most AFL games this year are higher than Sydney despite the population difference wit the Lions performing ebtter than the Swans.
Let’s just clear up the pay Tv ratings advantage the NRL has. The heaviest penetration of Foxtel is in Sydney and Brisbane, of course it does better than the other codes, Foxtel was sold as a RL vehicle long before it took on live AFL games which in a smaller market for Foxtel (Melb, Adel, Perth) have been growing at 8% this year against the NRL’s 3%.
Pay Tv is not the main game for revenue – it’s mostly about FTA.
The NRL sold out crowds for TV long before the AFL which to date has resisted a moveable fixture to maximise TV ratings and playing double headers of prime time Friday nights.
There is nothing wrong with the NRL TV ratings but lets compare apples with apples it’s not an even playing field.
Redb
Towser said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
Crosscoder
Still not enough twigs in Melbourne or Perth to keep building a solid bundle. Junior & university RL all around England but never been enough to build the bundle in London (even also in places like Sheffield within coo-ee of RL heartland). What happens then is you have to borrow twigs from the big strong bundle areas which in turn weakens them. IN real terms costs a lot of moolah. Regarding crowds. In post war days the RL challenge cup got capacity crowds at Wembley,always on as I remember a week before the FA cup final. Remember Mr RL Eddie Waring doing the commentary as a lad. So RL was always visible on a big stage every year in London,but a succesful team has never taken root there. Not enough big twigs to build the bundle. Same in Perth Melbourne. RL survives & thrives in England,(& for competition the monolith of Football dwarfs anything here) but only because it has wisely kept the comp within its heartland.Admire your optimism,but a little tweaking around the edges within the NSW/QLD heartland is the way to go. Thats common sense not thinking inside the square.
Redb said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:27pm | Report comment
Towser,
Most of the Melb twigs floated across the Tasman.
Redb
JF said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Dead right Towser,
The NRL should be building a NSW/QLD fortress, not a diluted, sprawling mess.
Redb – also correct, RL interest in non-RL cities is created by ex-pats, just as AFL interest in non-AFL cities is created by expats.
A solid junior comp in WA is not sufficient reason for an NRL team.
Redb said | June 11th 2009 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
JF,
No Crosscoder will tell you the juniors in rugby league in Victoria are mostly home grown pinched from AFL in an avalanche of cross code defection as rugby league storms the AFL fortress.
The AFL get’s a few whacks for supplying player numbers of dubious origin, well let me tell you the NRL and blokes like Waldron, Roy Masters dont mind stretching the truth which is lapped by the RL cheerleaders on the Roar.
An article appeared in the Age a couple of weeks ago by the local RL writer who admitted the majority of RL and Storm juniors are of Kiwi or Islander descent who live in Melbourne. not that there is anything wrong with that. I think there was wait for it, one AFL junior ‘convert’ amongst them.
Redb
Col the Bear said | June 11th 2009 @ 4:05pm | Report comment
Hey as long as the Central Coast Bears are next in, the 18th team can come from anywhere..but isn’t there a game at gosford this weekend as well as Perth..I think there’s youre next 2 teams when expansion comes along.. unless of course a team falls over then the Bears get the franchise, as I believe the court case of 2001 stipulated…
JimC said | June 11th 2009 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
They shouldn’t even think about WA without a decent rectangular pitch stadium. AFL/cricket ovals do not do the job.
Dave said | June 11th 2009 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
Towser, talking about England the superleague has expanded to London, Wales and France.
Crosscoder said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:44am | Report comment
RedB
Actually not only comparing apples with apples,but LCDs with LCDs.
Pay TV tend to work on actual viewers ,(ie the subsrciption base0.the fact that NRL has increased its audience(Pay TV) by 3% PA,from a a large base,and the AFL has increased theirs from a smaller base 8% is in itslef excellent work.More so in these troubled times.
From memory the value of Pay Tv for the nRL is $42m pa and the AFLs about $60m.Yet the NRL has the vast majority of the top 50 Pay programmes.The Dogs v Storm match played a couple of weeks ago was the 2nd highest viewing audience for Pay TV.
Now to FTA.
The NRL gets$42m pa for 3 NRl games per week/3 SOO and the finals series.The SOO independently gets $10-$12m per series of that sum .This leaves $30m for 3 NRL games each weekend and the origin series.The AFL gets from 7 and 10 $93m a year for 4 games per week end.Ie 3 times the amount of the NRL for 1 more game.
The head honchos of ch9 and fox,maintain its the capital city ratings that makes the AFL more valuable.They conveniently ignore the regionals of NSW and Qld,with bigger populations than Adelaide and Perth.
Crosscoder said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Towser.
Using your analogy not enough twigs for AFL in Sydney with the Swans (with many expats) and a team in West Sydney.Doesn’t stop the AFL from expanding.
oh and you should know about grassroots rl development in London.It is hardly standing still Things don’t happen overnight..+
Have actually attended a Challenge cup final at Wembley(Widnes/Wigan),and agree that London is a struggle ATM.
RL was just about killed off in France due to some union shennanikins in 1941.The junior numbers have grown since 2005,wth a team in the SL.So rl should have pulled the plug then! LOL.
Crosscoder said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
RedB
Originality when it comes to comedy is not your forte.Try not to bend the truth when quoting me .There were in fact 3 people who played AFL, not as you suggested an avalanche.Stretch the truth doesn;t hurt to sell a story at times.The writer also ignored the under 18s team.
We can therefore surmise based on your theory of evolution ,that all the children playing rl in registered comps(including the 54 teams registered in mini league)/schools primary and secondary and the Storm lower grades ,all lobbed over in Vic on a balsa raft from NZ.
One then has to suggest those who play AFL in Sydney(except Keiran Jack) were shipped up the the old Bass strait ferry service to Sydney from Vic.You know the tsunami that AFL has sent which is to swamp WS.The game described as “a ;league of its own”,the game that built Australia” and the Gold Coast “is football(AFL) territory”.And you laugh at the NRL at times fro exaggeration.
When I look at the players in NRL teams or junior under 20/18/15 I am not in the habit of saying there is a fair whack of Europeans/Kiwis/PNGs/Fijians etc in a side.They are playing for a club,they are residents,citizens whatever.Race for me is not an issue.
You really have a problem with Masters,suggest he is small bikkies compared to that Caroline( AFL) wordspeak on the Offsiders,who seems to know more about WS than the good citizens..
RL cheerleaders are few and far between on this site,which at times resembles AFL central.Hell better check I may be a Kiwi.
The man said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
The Reds (and GC Chargers) should have been persisted with, rather than sacrificed on the peace table of the SL war – especially with all the good work done in the lead up for the Reds.
Perth with its large expat population is crying out for regular league (let alone at a reasonable time slot).
Cheerleading is not necessary Xcoder when you know RL is the greatest game of all.
Redb said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
CC,
“The head honchos of ch9 and fox,maintain its the capital city ratings that makes the AFL more valuable.They conveniently ignore the regionals of NSW and Qld,with bigger populations than Adelaide and Perth.”
Question: I’ ve read this reply many times usually by Roy ‘Bigot’ Masters. Aren’t the very head honchos of Ch 9 the same people that determine TV rights $ along with the head honchos at Ch 7? Do you think they know what they’re talking about or is it that RL journalists and their fans know better about TV rights.
I think the NRL will do better with their TV rights next time but it will bear no relation to what the AFL gets becuase the two offerings are different in many many ways. Ways the TV execs understand.
Redb
Crosscoder said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
RedB
Like any commercial organisation,they want to get a quality product for the least possible commercial price.It is the nature of things,and says little for the NRL’s negotiating skills ATT.The NRL 6 year deal was negotiated well before the AFL one.You ignore the K Packer factor in the inflated AFL pricing before he went to the polo ground in the sky.
When a person like John Singleton who happens to know a little about Tv and marketing,says the game has undersold itself,I tend to take a litle more notice.In view of the latest TV ratings for SOO1 I am inclined to agree. FTA 3 times the value of NRL sorry no way Jose.Yes it may well be worth more than the NRL ATM,but declining ratings IN NSW and Qld are hardly inspirational for a better AFL deal(eg $200m PA).
Yet good ole Rupert spent hundreds of millions of dollars on getting rl for his Pay TV ,such was his understanding of the Tv impact of the game.Kerry Stokes has already intimated that he is also very interested in NRL rights.
“Bigot” for Masters?Like most of the sports journos I have had the pleasure or displeasure to read or listen to ,they tend to bat for their side and try to score maximum runs.
Caroline Wilson,Richard Hinds,Nikki Tugwell,Tim Morrissey for AFL can then be classified as ‘bigots’ using your formula.
Crosscoder said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:53pm | Report comment
The man
Touche.
Redb said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
Crosscoder,
Your didn’t answer the question.
“’ I’ve read this reply many times usually by Roy ‘Bigot’ Masters. Aren’t the very head honchos of Ch 9 the same people that determine TV rights $ along with the head honchos at Ch 7? Do you think they know what they’re talking about or is it that RL journalists and their fans know better about TV rights.”
Redb
Crosscoder said | June 16th 2009 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
RedB
I answered your question any commercial organisation worth its salt,tries to get the best product for the cheapest amount possible,especially when a k packer was involved.
eg the first year of the under 20 Toyota cup,received little compensation.It was such a success for Fox,it is now getting approx$2m pa ,making it a self funding tournament.
The ch9/Fox rl contract was done and dusted before the AFL one.You know full well there was haggling involving Fox and 7 and 10 after K Packer pushed the anti.I would not call J Singleton a journalist,he knows more about marketing/advertising/the TV industry,than I could learn in 10 lifetimes.
Obviously “bigots” like Caroline Wilson seem to know more than the Tv moguls.She knows more about WS than people who live there it appears.
If the head honchos didn’t think it (the rugby league Tv contracts) were worth more than they are currently getting, they wouldnt be splitting the package up for the next deal SOO-NRL-Tests.
One of the board of directors of the NRL happens to be Katie Page the wife of Jerry Harvey(Harvey Norman).You think she doesn’t know a thing or two about Tv contracts/marketing.
When onetakes into account the capital cities and regionals for Tv ratings,rugby league is not that far behind the AFL.You don’t have to be a journo,a “bigot” or Luigi the unbelievable, to suggest the NRL could have done better ,and has the ammo to push for a better deal next time.
it is therefore not a case of what I or “bigots”( nice description BTW) think ,it is there laid out on the table :Tv ratings,more so in the major city Sydney ,and Brisbane and regionals that encompass populations bigger than WA and SA.
westy said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:15pm | Report comment
Redb I say this without antagonism but a rational channel 7 management would be very well advised to keep al ittle powder dry for the SOO. This does not mean the AFL will not get an increase in funding. It simply means keeping 100 million or so in the kitty would give it a powerful say in SOO and football internationals being shown on its free to air if NRL and FFA were to unbundle their rights .
This is not an us against them mentality. It would be in an unassailable position to have its share of AFL domestic games combined with Wallabies test matches , the SOO and a some Socceroos games. it would be a very smart business move.
The AFL is the most valuable as you correctly point out. However it is not ridiculous to say that channel 9 get more value out of the NRL in terms of price relative to coverage . Roy Masters has its own agenda but in terms of marginal cost 9 has been able to use NRL to hurt 7. Indeed without it nine a couple of years ago would have been behind ten.
. Channel 7 should be well in front of 9 but its lead although clear is narrowing.
I expect as you point out AFL to inrease its rights but the NRL may do much better than it currently does. If the AFL gets 1 billion the NRL will definitely get more. The difficulty for seven is whether to hold a little back for some very valuable one off tv rights.
westy said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
Redb i personally went and saw Melbourne Storm U/18 SG Ball play the canterbury Bulldogs in the final of the Australian u/18 championships.at St Marys NSw, i personally spoke to some of the Storm lads. Five of them come from Victoria and there were another 7 who are of NZ extraction whose parents now reside in Victoria and one NZ who parents reside in SA. The other 7 were from QLD and NSW. they were competitive to half way through the second half but lost the way in the second half and were touched up by the Dogs. The AFL convert is actually avery well mannered lad who has not converted. he has simply not made up his mind and enjoys both games . he is only 16 and has not made up his mind.
I also saw NSW/ACT AFL walloped by the VIcMetro at Rouse Hill . But in saying that there were 5 NSW/ACT boys who really cut the mustard just the depth to support them was not there.
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:42am | Report comment
Crosscoder,
The Packer myth is a Sydney RL thing. It has never been discussed in Melbourne footy circles. It is a nice fairy tale dreamed up by Roy Masters because he couldn’t stomach that Ch 9 and Packer were desperate to hang onto the AFL TV rights, they got taste of the rights for 5 years it was a boon for them but Ch 7 wanted them more. It is no coincidence that Ch 7 have ruled ever sicen tehy won the AFL rights back. you dont think Packer was aware of the potential slide he could see coming?
Roy Masters is very selective with his facts and sometimes it is just fluff and BS. Masters is a Buigot with a capital B. Caro Wilson’s a lightweight.
Last Friday, the AFL rated over 900,000 for it’s Friday night game, the NRL about 700,000 which is still pretty good. 5 AFL matches are on free to air, most rate over 400,000 in Melbourne alone, the NRL has 5 games on pay Tv that at best would not go over 350,000 nationally.
You have to accept that the NRL solid its soul to TV and in particular pay TV. Bitching about the AFL won’t change that.
And you still haven’t answered the question of who is a better judge of TV rights worth?
Redb
Redb said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Westy,
Many of the NSW/ACT AFL players are not exclusively aligned to the Sydney Swans. There are some 40 NSW players in the AFL right now. QLD is bigger at 65 AFL players and in participation numbers, Australian football now rivals rugby union in Queensland.
I post this to provide a contrast to the respective differences and highlight the Storm and RL media claims of ’storming the AFL fortress’ for what it is at this point in time.
Both the rugby codes will get a slice fo the junior pie in Victoria in decades to come, but it will take a few years, there simply is not the junior base of locals from Victoria (not NZ expats) in the system. It’s fanciful to think in barely 3-4 years of junior development in rugby leagues case that these lads would be of national standard without a rugby heritage.
Redb
p.s. Roy Masters actually wrote a while back than ‘un-named’ AFL official was quoted as saying to his ARL colleague that if you guys give up NZ we’ll give up QLD -:-) Absolute crock of ….
Dave said | June 17th 2009 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
Redb, you are right. The quote from an un-named’ AFL official probably comes from some offhand comment on the drink in Melbourne. It just doesn’t mean anything and has no relevance to the future of either code.
Crosscoder said | June 19th 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
RedB
Myth! really! so as to give some credible support to the TV deal.Caroline Wilson(the ventriliquist’s dummy) will no doubt give it her seal of approval.
At last reports K Packer was alive at the time of the last Tv contracts.ie He was involved,he was a Sydney resident.Hence the northern reaction and the non Melbourne reaction in footy circles..
Masters was not the only person to bring the subject up within Sydney circles.Marketing people .
K Packer was first and foremost a cricket lover,coming a close second(apart from gambling was rugby league).K Packer and one R Murdoch were fully aware of the value and the huge TV ratings rl gets in the northern states and regionals.
You keep banging on about who is the better judge of TV rights- try K Packer/R Murdoch.The latter invested a huge $400m trying to wrest rl away from ch9.Guess what K Packer in particular spent nearly the same amount in trying to retain it.
I have already brought up Singleton the advtg guru,and Katie Page who spends with Gerry Harvey a fortune on Tv advtg and the SOO series .I will throw in another person Ken Cowley former director of News/Fox,who was also involved in getting rl for pay TV.
Because AFL is national there is naturally correct argument that AFL is worth more than the rl.Never suggested otherwise.
That being said does not endorse the figure paid by ch7/10 and fox for the AFL based on current Tv ratings/advtg dollars.The AFL figures both TV ratings and bums on seats in Sydney are down.Tim Morrissey(Mr Tsunami) acknowledged it in the Terrorgraph 18/6 .If that justifies the huge figure paid,then I am glad I am not paying the bills.When you refer to Pay Tv and the ratings the number of NRL games in the top 50(compared to the other codes) also suggests the game got sold a dump.
No the participants who started SL war sold its soul to TV,the other codes got the leg up.
You have also proved the point that rl has only been developing in Vic for 3 years,and it is a no brainer to suggest it will take years for a number of home growns to get into the NRL.Yet the Storm’s under 20 side may well prove me wrong.That is why WA which has had rl going longer than Vic,has at least 3 involved in the NRL.Holdsworth,Greene, off the top of my head.
AFL has been around in NSW for over 100 years.That is the real comparison.
Tom Alexander. said | July 13th 2009 @ 2:28am | Report comment
The media problems now dogging Rugby League in Australia is rooted in the intense love affair that existed between the ARL and Kerry Packer, which at one time was considered a match made in heaven. Unfortunately like all obsessive relationships it was headed for the rocks. Now as we all know that came in the form of Rupert Murdoch who, after wanting in on this relationship, turned their whole world upside down, and, unfortunatly in this threesome, someone ended up being the meat in the sandwich, in this case it was Rugby League. Now, because the ARL being the only peak body controlling the game not just here in Australia but as some would argue the world, got well and truly shafted in this whole messy affair, the ramifications have been enormous and still lingers to this day as a matter of fact the game has since been relegated to the role not unlike that of a tired old whore who after being under the control of more pimps than she can poke a stick at, and has had more customers than she cares to remember, she no longer cares who fucks her and knows it’s in her best interests to keep her mouth shut her legs open and when told to do so, must return to her street corner to await the next paying customer.
David V. said | July 26th 2009 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
WA is different from other “non-Rugby League” states because it actually has a history of playing the game at grassroots level. The Reds had potential to produce youngsters, in fact their youth grades were made up of Perth-born players from what I recall. They were shafted in favour of Melbourne Storm, as it were.
Corey said | November 18th 2009 @ 9:14am | Report comment
WA has the 3rd oldest league in Australia and Perth needs a team, League needs Perth to have a team, and the Australian League Public need Perth to have a team. Channel 9 shows the NRL to NSW and QLD only with Melbourne getting their games on delay (1a.m.). If Perth gets a team, than 9 will have to show league over there which will lead to more people being interested in the game and more crowds and more league supporters. I would love to see Red Bull may be get involved (as they have a team in the Austrian soccer league which has no where near the crowd attendances RL has), something like the WA Red Bulls. Great for Red Bull, great for Perth and great for the game.
babyg said | November 25th 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
Would love to see Perth with an NRL team. Reds deserve to be let back in. Just need TV to actually show the game. Extra channels will hopefully help this one day. League is a great game.
M1tch said | November 25th 2009 @ 1:54pm | Report comment
they are doing the right thing by having the Reds as a SG Ball team for 2010, young local players will be in the side, ideally they want to become a Toyota Cup side for 2012 and makes 2013 a easy transition to NRL