By Jesse Fink
June 12th 2009 @ 2:49am
Related coverage
What’s really holding “soccer” back?
Australia's Scott McDonald and Iraq's Haidar Hussain during the Australian Socceroos v Iraq World Cup qualifier. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
There were many talking points to come out of Wednesday night’s Australia Vs Bahrain WCQ, a major one being the continued and inexplicable international career of Brett Holman, which I have attended to in my Friday column for The World Game. It deserves a blog on its own.
Another is Scott McDonald, who couldn’t hit a barnyard door with a cowpat and whose time as a striker for the Socceroos must surely be up.
But what I found most interesting – and there wasn’t that much to find interesting at Homebush; it was probably the most tedious thing I’ve seen since one of those interminable Andy Warhol art movies from the 1960s – was the way Sydney’s Daily Telegraph launched a blistering character attack on Pim Verbeek in the lead-up to the game, blaming his media ban on players for the poor attendance.
It continued on Thursday.
Phil Rothfield, the executive editor of the sports pages, declared: “Soccer will never make it as a major sport in this country while Pim Verbeek is in charge of our national team. Forget about the boring style of soccer, it is Pim’s petulance and disdain for Australian culture which [sic] is holding the game back.”
Coming from a paper whose golden-boy reporter Nick Walshaw calls Scott McDonald “Scotty Mitchell” and which rated Holman’s performance as “6/10” you really have to question the wisdom of listening to anything the Telegraph says.
But it’s the biggest-selling paper in Australia’s biggest city, so we need to take notice.
Now I’ve made my own criticisms of Verbeek here and on TWG while also commending him, but the Telegraph has stepped over the line. We were all disappointed by the media ban, by the withdrawal of players including Tim Cahill, by the very late substitution of Nicky Carle for Holman, but they are the prerogatives of the national-team manager, whose job is to best prepare his team for South Africa 2010 as he sees fit.
He may not be right – in regards keeping Holman on the pitch I think he made a grievous error – but they are his decisions to make and we must respect his position, his experience and his reasons for making them.
So Pim himself is not holding the game back. Frankly how that can be said about someone who has just led Australia to the World Cup really is quite perplexing.
In my view what is holding the game back is the mediocrity of the media that reports on the sport we all love, chief among them the Daily Telegraph and its satellite papers in the News Limited family.
Four years on from our second World Cup qualification, they still have no idea what they’re writing about.
It is the stubborn persisting in calling it “soccer”, even on Fox Sports, the so-called “home of football”. It is the sequestering of live coverage of qualification games on to pay TV, where only those people who can afford it are able to watch our national football team while the vast majority of people are forced to go without.
Yes, I write for SBS, and it is thankfully how I earn a living, but even if I didn’t I’d still thank God for its very existence. SBS employs people with passion, fearlessness, knowledge and a real commitment to the sport – and has demonstrated that commitment through thick and thin, even back in the days when Socceroos was a dirty word.
That much cannot be said about many other media outlets when it comes to football.
There was a moment in Fox’s coverage before the Qatar match in Doha last weekend that summed up for me the fairweather nature of so much of the Australian media’s relationship with the biggest sport in the world.
Robbie Slater, the former Socceroo, was in the midst of praising Verbeek for getting Australia to the World Cup and then made an aside about criticism of the Dutchman as having come from “the usual quarters”.
The irony of this is that Slater, “soccer’s number one analyst” according to his column byline for News Limited, was the biggest critic of Verbeek’s appointment, even before he arrived in the country.
“Underwhelming” was his choice of word to describe how he felt about Verbeek being selected over the Frenchman Philippe Troussier.
Now Verbeek, if we are to judge by the tenor of the commentary on Fox, can do no wrong. Slater, particularly, is a Verbeek cheerboy.
Football cannot be held back in this country so long as there is a vibrant, knowledgeable, independent and committed media behind it that engages people with the sincerity of its passion and the sophistication of its debate.
The sport is just too big, too beautiful to be curtailed.
SBS is leading the way. Now it’s up to the rest of the side to pick up its game.
This is my 100th blog for The Roar and I’ve had a blast getting to know a lot of you. Special thanks to The Bear, Stifler’s Mom, Vicentin, Kazama, Midfielder, Ben of Phnom Penh, Millster, Sledgeross, Dasilva, Dickroo, Dazza Japan, Koala Bear, Mick of Newie, Pippinu and even the exasperating Slippery Jim (or Contrarian, as I’ve come to know him).
Your input has been enlightening, entertaining and always challenging. This small corner of the world game is better off for your presence.
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Interesting though you dont rate Pocock, Elsom, Genia, Robinson or AAC?
dasilva said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:13am | Report comment
Thanks for the mention
To be fair for holman. He did link well with other players in the first half. However he became more poor as the game went on.
I have been a skeptic of Nicky Carle throughout the past year but even I was disappointed with only 6 minutes in this match. Why would you sub someone on for 6 minutes in a dead rubber? I can’t help think that Pim decision was purely a petty F*** you to the pro-Nick Carle media
Kurt said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:24am | Report comment
And in a huge surprise, we have a soccer fan claiming that the only reason the game is not more popular is because of -sob- the ignorant Australian media. So what if someone wrote an article in the Telegraph criticising the media ban, how does that constitute ‘holding back’ the sport? When will people such as yourself Jesse and the others who parrot the same tired line over and over again about how the nasty mainstream media are conspiring against your sport accept that because soccer is the no. 1 sport in other countries doesn’t automatically entitle it to the same position in Australia.
This looks to me like a smoke screen to obscure one very uncomfortable fact – the socceroos bandwagon this time around is much smaller, less shiny and not nearly so exciting as 4 years ago. People can go on and on about how the game is going from ’strength to strength’, supporters of other codes are ‘afraid’ etc. but the bottom line is for a hugely hyped, supposed ‘celebration’ of the glorious achievement of qualifying for the WA, you managed less than 40K attendance. I think we can all recognise a downward trend when we see one, and soccer in this country is staring over the brink of one right now.
So in summary I suggest you either go and buy a jumbo box of tissues to share with Mike Tuckerman and have a big cry about how unfair it all is, or get over this utterly misplaced sense of entitlement and self importance.
Cpaaa said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:19am | Report comment
i was working with a hardcore afl nut from melbourne and he to cannot see the value of Holman.
the courier mail was kinda the same the day after, poor headlines, poor story. Broncos front page Broncos back page. but to the Courier Mails credit they do use the true name of Football.
MarkH said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:45am | Report comment
The Daily Telegraph in Syd devotes a whole section to soccer so I dont know where the complaints are with the media. I still dont think that soccer supports understand that Australians prefer contact sports. Im not having a go at the sport. It just happens to be a fact. AFL, RU and RL are the major sports in winter for people to watch. My guess its such a long game to watch if your only going to see one or two goals the whole game. I really cant see the numbers improving unless FFA get a team from Brazil, Germany or England to tour every year. Playing these other small out of the way places is of no interest.
The Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:11am | Report comment
Lol, Kurt, how much will your tune change within the next 7 days? The last qualifier in Melbourne has sold over 70K tix already. Yep, let’s talk about “inadequacy” now. Onto the posting however, Jesse, and I found it refreshing that Jedinak was given a starting chance versus Bahrain. It does show that Pim WILL tinker for depth and selection decisions… perhaps he will now even tinker to the CAM position??
One thing I will say in regards to our Mr Verbeek and the FFA’s conservatively mandated approach to 2010 World Cup qualification, is that had we had qualification on the line in Sydney, and lost one of the earlier games (or drawn) like we probably “deserved” to, then this whole situation of a dead rubber after having a charmed run would never of happened. Lol, interesting thought, that conservatism courts contempt, and courage wins allies.
Even the substandard editors at this other media channel may have found another outlet to vent their frustrated lives that week… it’s usually the pattern, aint it? I hear the Sharks have another mess on their hands, dear oh dear. How about they report honestly on true matters of importance, not whether our National Coach is giving pass outs to his Players!!
Geeezs, what a beat up.
mitzter said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
ah yes the word soccer is always what’s holding back the game
Robbos said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Jesse,
It’s called survival, in one of the last outposts where football is not dominant, they have come out fighting. You have jounalists devoting their time & media space to bag out our game & you people coming on this blog who clearly don’t like football yes, you Kurt & many others just to put the game down. Why I ask are they wasting their time?
Pip has accused me of anti-AFL, I must admit I don’t enjoy the sport & even though I’m Australian this game is far more foreign to me than football. But I’ve never gone onto a AFL related post to be negative, because my knowlegde & care of the game is minimal & have no need to degrade another sport. I don’t dislike the sport, if anything the only slight envy of how game is presented in the media in this country.
We qualify to our 2nd World cup running & instead of rejoicing and celebrating as a nation at qualifing fo the world’s greatest sporting event. No, we get negative reports like this from Phil Rothfield & his cohorts. The bandwagon is not getting smaller, it’s more like the lasts outposts are starting look like Custer’s last stand for some of our niche sports & when you are in survival mode, you stike out.
It all reminds me of my time in Switzerland before WC06, watching an American channel (CNN for European Americans), not many other English channels in Switzerland, the sports segment was dominanted by the world cup & they flash back to the lead anchor, & her comments was “the WORLD cup, what’s all the fuss, it’s not as if it’s the Stanley cup”. Sort of sums it all up. Ignorance is Bliss Mr Rothfield.
Brett McKay said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Jesse, congrats on bringing up the ton!! I often feel that my limited soccer/football knowledge holds me back from most discussions on this site, but this is one I can get into.
To start with, Phil Rothfield is a peanut. That’s not really ground-breaking news, but it needs to be said again. He’s a league hack who, like a lot of league hacks over the years, thinks their opinion carries into other sports. When you throw in desk-buddy Rebecca Wilson, you have the axis of balanced reporting right there. So yes, he writes for the biggest paper in the biggest city in Australia, but that still doesn’t make him informed. As has been said on The Roar plenty of times about plenty of sports, informed and knowledgeable sports fans rely on forums such as ours for their information. I’m sure the same could be said of TWG.
Speaking of SBS, I’m very glad they have the rights to the World Cup. I am one of the people you referred to who have to make alternate arrangements (which I may or may not have done on Wed night) to view the Socceroos. I could not agree more that limiting coverage to pay tv is definitely a hinderance to growth in Australia, although happily the Govt has said some time back that the Socceroos will be added to the anti-syphoning list at the expiry of the current Fox contract. I understand that the A-League wouldn’t have come about without Fox Sports, but again, surely the best way to get new followers is to have a free-to-air presence. Especially with new teams.
I think that mainstream media has come a long way on the whole, but yeah, there is still a long way to go. There was nary a mention of Perth Glory’s impending announcement today of Mile Sterjovski, yet Christiano Ronaldo was all over the news last night. But hey, at least Kenny Sutcliffe has been referring to the national coach as ‘Pim’!!
Baby steps Jesse, baby steps…
True Tah said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Jesse
I wouldnt pay too much attention to the Telegraph, if someone uses that to make informed decisions about something, it says something about the person!!
I dont believe anything is holding futbol/soccer back, however the fact is the sport will never be like it is in say Brazil/England/Italy because of the fact that in Australia, unlike most countries, there are several powerful sporting competitors. When you view it from this persective, averaging 15K a game is excellent, in fact, its almost as good as the professional leagues in nations where futbol is the sporting behemoth.
Quite frankly, the main thing holding futbol back in Australia is the attitudes of some Euro-snobs…if someone like me, to whom futbol is not my no.1 sport, can see more HAL games than someone whose prized possession is an Everton jersey, despite never having left the country, then that says something, sorry for being blunt Jesse.
whiskeymac said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
poor old pim. his smug face is always going to be a target for some.
good call on Robbie Slater too. he was adamant that the FFA was wrong in its choice. as were a few others (Fossie for example)… so we got a roundhead and not a cavalier – roundheads won the war. there were just known as killjoys too.
Kurt, always fun to read your posts, but this bit ” the socceroos bandwagon this time around is much smaller, less shiny and not nearly so exciting as 4 years ago” needs some addressing.
I would much rather have meaningful games – qualifiers and cup tournaments against opposition like Japan, Korea, Iraq etc – than the do-or-die dramas which only happened every 4 years. Sure those one off games were bigger and more entertaining for some, but the constant competiton and exposure every year that Asia provides surely outweighs this. How can we compare 180 minutes to the hours we have now. More games, more exposure. It’s not even a question of quality v quantity because the number of games that meant anything pre asia was miniscule. between (2001-2005) the only other game we harped on about was a friendly win over the poms.
So for every turnout like that at ANZ (not too bad imo) wehave a sell out against Japan at the MCG. at the end of the year the number of viewers, media columns (always lower than it could be), turnstile receipts etc must be higher than your shiny bandwagon afforded us?
The sport is less reliant on one off games nowadays than it was a few seasons ago. to me this is a sign that it is in a much stronger and viable position. It would be nice if the media gave itmore exposure proportionate to it’s participation rates, the teams international standing etc.
Brett McKay said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Robbos, you’ve just hit on something there – surely the fact that a league-focussed (some might say ‘blinkered’) “journo” like Rothfield is using his column space to bag soccer/football (I’m still in transistion here myself) is a positive for the sport. Forget what he’s saying, but essentially his criticism is football taking column inches off another sport. If any publicity is good publicity, then perhaps this is actually a good thing??
Redb said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Jesse,
Have you ever considered that futbol’s assocation with SBS might be holding back the game in Australia? SBS was set up as a multi-cultural TV channel for ‘new’ Australians, by its very nature it is marginalised.
Perhaps it is wrong also that SBS concentrates on futbol compared to other sports? Why should it give so much coverage to the ‘world game’ which lends itself to the not ‘mainstream’ Australian label?
When soccer, futbol whatever out grows SBS it will be a watershed moment for the code in Australia.
Redb
JF said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
The short answer is ‘Nothing’ – and this kills the football crowd, there are no excuses left! Neither the media, public sentiment, racism, accessibility, nothing is holding the sport back. But it is still not the no.1 sport in the country? How can this be? I have to agree with Kurt’s comments about the football crowd trotting out the same old line, this is a tired and boring argument. Every sport in this country must deal with operating in a crowded market, why does the football community feel they are any different?
Tom said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
I doubt there’s much that can be done to bring around the people who find Phil Rothfield credible.
Although I get really frustrated at the coverage football gets in Australia, I don’t really agree that its ‘holding back’ the sport. I think there are a number of individual journalists who are genuinely afraid of football’s rise and what it means for their own beloved code, but mostly I think the media just reports on whatever it reckons it can get people interested in.
The FFA has actually gotten much better at manipulating the media, and it shows in the increased coverage.
I think we’re moving towards a better balance in sporting coverage.
Towser said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
Seen dozens of these sort of articles as a football fan in the forty years I’ve lived here. All essentially the same.
However have to agree that nothing is holding the sport back today. The FFA are slowly but surely implementing programs to grow Football, that are starting to bite. In fact neither the Telegraph articles or this article will make an iota of difference.
The FFA are doing a great job.
Albert Ross said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
I simply do not understand why anyone would read the Sydney DT (or the Melbourne Hun for that matter) with their well documented history of made up stories, lies, distortions and barracking for their own pet “causes” over the last 30 to 40 years let alone take anything written therein seriously enough to base an online article on some story it might have concocted,
As the bumper sticker says “Is that the truth or did you see it the Daily Telegraph?”.
Otherwise some good points.
keeper11 said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
onya kurt…
you and yr deluded nrl sugar daddies in news limited wish the dreaded sockah is on a downward spiral…in your dreams
as smell follows a fart…we football followers know anytimne there is a feelgood story around ‘tha sockah’.
the usual crowd in news limited will come up with a shock-horror beatup..
i wonder…is this latest dump on the dreaded sockah due to the fact that sydney HAS embraced the socceroos over that banality offered by ‘international league’
Last 3 league tests attendances in sydney;
v NZ -35000 centenary test
v NZ- 26000 league world cup
v GB 16000 “world” cup
last 3 socceroos attendances in sydney:
v china 70000 asian qulaifier
v Qatar 57000 WC
v bahrain 40000 WC
theres lies and damn lies..and ofcourse you won’t read any of this in the sydney rag..
but i giuess kurt didn’t know any of this…for him and his ilk the total sum total of all their knowledge is..
1 sydney tabloid rag….ha.
The Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
Redb, who is televising the Ashes??
True Tah said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:38am | Report comment
keeper11
the Socceroos played Uzbekistan in Sydney, not Qatar.
Mick of Newie said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:41am | Report comment
This is my concession post:
I am resigned to Carle not playing a role at the world cup
I am resigned to Holman playing a role (my genuine wish for the year is that he has a breakthrough year, plays well in the ECL and shows us all what Pim sees – same goes for Djite and Spiranovic)
I am resigned to seeing us playing 4 2 3 1 (what chance if all are fully fit that the 1 is Harry which would be a 4 2 4 0)
I am amazed that I found myself agreeing with Andy Postecoglu in his criticism of the 2 holding midfielders
As for the Telegraph, its influence is overstated. It wont hold the game back, when Rupert interests are aligned it will leap on board.
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Comrade Kurt,
we acknowledge and can smell your fear… Yes indeed the troops from all quarter, NRL and Football, are massing on the southern borders for the final push .. Do you want to surrender now or wait for the inevitable final push and overthrow in 2018, with the Australian FIFA Football World Cup…?
Major Schwarzer decorated – 2 medals for his Australian Football achievements for the war of the codes …
The Fulham and Socceroos goalkeeper collected two of the major awards of the gala night. He first won the Football Media Association award for Australia’s professional footballer of the year. He then completed a notable double by taking out the night’s most prestigious award, Football Federation of Australia’s footballer of the year.
“It is vital that we play by the rules and be role models for young kids,” an emotional Schwarzer, 36, said later. “We are in the limelight and we have the responsibility to lead by example.
Comrade Kurt, yer gotta love da man….
~~~~~~~
KB
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Hey – I got a mention!!
I am going to agree with two posters on here who we might loosely categorise as some-time soccer fans (which should not seen as being derogatory, as I think the bulk of the Australian population can be categorised as such).
TT
excellent point – no one who sees less A-League games than your good kind self has the right to say boo to you on any matter regarding soccer.
I too watch about three-quarters of all A-League games on Fox, and occasionally have to cop some criticism for sometimes putting my love of aussie rules ahead of soccer from people who probably watch far less A-League than I do.
The Euro snobs do more damage to the game in this country than just about anyone else. One thing they could all learn to understand is that the future of the game in this country is not about Australians abandoning their current interests, but about achieving something similar to what the Melbourne Victory has achieved.
We have the biggest membership of any A-League club in the land by a country mile – no one comes close – in fact, our membership numbers are on par with many well known clubs in very good leagues around the world.
But get this – half of our membership base consists of AFL members – that’s the sort of statistic the Euro snobs need to get their head around and start accepting.
Redb
I was going to post something similar. If anyone thinks the future of the game is assured by hitching itself to SBS (or the ABC for that matter), they are sadly mistaken.
I pray that SBS broadcasts the WC forever (Parliament should just legislate that to be the case).
Despite their little quirks, I love Les and Fos to death.
But otherwise, forget about the SBS having any big role in growing the game locally in any way, shape or form.
tifosi said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:28am | Report comment
Jesse
Im amazed that you think that Football is being held back here at all.
Once upon a time a game against bahrain would have drawn flies, now it gets 40,000 people. If it meant something more it would have got even more people. I think the fact that people thought 40,000 to a game was disappointing just shows how far we have come.
Uzbekistan a country most aussies, wouldn’t know how to spell or could point to on a map, had 57,000 people at the game in the rain.
I remember the days when argentina came here and had bugger all to the games.
I was at the game on wednesday night, and seeing so many kids with socceroos gear was a pleasure, and the majority of these kids were not from an ethnic background.
What it does need though, is for the socceroos to get back on FTA tv, this will happen as thankfully Senator Conroy is a huge football fan.
I think the fan support and media coverage has been great so far. People are forgetting how it used to be.
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Jesse,
NO….. we don’t have to read the ignorant crap coming out of the sterile, ignorant minds of Phil Rothchild, Ben Englect or Nick Walshsap.
And I deliberately mis-spelt their names since some of these rugby league huggers still think it’s Tim Verbeek, not Pim.
And I’m not having a go at rugby league, simply emphasizing their ignorance of football.
Dan said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:37am | Report comment
Not going to get into the whole “whose sport is better” malarkey here, but I have a question to people such as Robbos.
You who claim that “in one of the last outposts where football is not dominant, the [fans of other football codes] have come out fighting [for survival]. “
The idea underpinning such sentiments is that soccer (a legitimate British term for the sport) is a juggernaut that will definitely become the country’s no.1 sport. You may contest that this is what you meant if I’ve misrepresented your statements, but referring to us as “one of the last outposts” sounds like the talk of a crusader heading to Jerusalem. My question is this though: is there something intrinsically wrong with a country NOT liking soccer as much as another code of football? I ask this because I often get the feeling from people on the roar and friends of mine who love the game that they’re almost embarrassed that Australia isn’t like the rest of the world in its football tastes; as if not having the game as our no.1 sport was akin to rejecting the rest of the world in some way.
Midfielder said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Jes
Your best for a while … can I add you look at the following article put up by yesterday …The TERROgraph and it’s RL jurno’s can smell it … what a arse this guy is..some key bits.
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap…017479,00.html
Then hear how poster boy Tim Cahill has pulled out with what coach Pim Verbeek calls little stiff muscles.
Learn to love these Aussies the hard way, by going some 53 minutes without a point being scored at ANZ Stadium last night.
And, sure, it’s painful. Because drawing nudes is intriguing . . . drawing soccer matches is not.
But what about the joy when Australia finally goaled – twice?
But it also gave those Sydney soccer novices who did attend a chance to work on their pronunciations, make the most of short beer lines and enjoy the opportunity to quiz more learned mates on the intricacies of the game.
JES … BEST OF ALL BY FAR
Has Mahmood Abdulrahman Mohamed Noor Abdulrahman ever had his full name printed on a jersey?
Jes I will leave my SBS debate aside for this thread .
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Dan
I am with you on this point, and it’s something I touch on in my last post.
Embarassment is a good word to use – another is cultural cringe – something that has existed in Australia since the convict days (when, in truth, we have more to celebrate than just about any other country on Earth).
But here are some facts to ponder:
1. Soccer is the largest participation code of football in this country by many lengths.
2. We’ve been hovering around 30th spot on the league of nations for a couple of years, not too shabby.
3. Our local league is probably only one or two rungs below the standard of the leagues of, say, two time World champion Uruguay, or one time runners up, Sweden.
Can we imporve overall? Of course we can! And we will! Improvement comes naturally to this country – it’s what we’re best at in just about every walk of life.
Redb said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:56am | Report comment
The Bear,
yeah SBS have been a cricketing tragic for decades. It’s a fair point but the association (accuse the pun) is a lot stronger with futbol.
Agree with Dan re Robbos comments, he’s been watching too many re-runs of Star Trek and the Borg – ‘resistence is futile’ mentality. Not all countries have multiple football codes would be my response. Nuff said.
Wednesday’s game was uninspiring and limited in appeal as far as a spectator highlights. (like any football code can be at times)
I agree with Towser and agree this article is a little old hat. The FFA and A League are light years ahead of the NSL days. This is not a sprint car event you dont go from nought to 100 miles an hour in 5.6 seconds. Our sporting diet is so varied there are countless offerings ahead, not least of which is the St Kilda v Geelong clash in 3 week, the next RL SOO and the Japan game against the Socceroos at the G next week which holds much more interest.
I’m no fan of the Daily Terrorgraph either and think they manipulate their readers on a constant basis to get attention/hits. Rothfields’s blog is nothing more than a fluffed up version of a troll that you will find on any internet forum, he’s just paid for it.
Redb
Forgetmenot said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:59am | Report comment
“Stubborn persisting in calling it soccer”
That is what is hold soccer back in this country. The arrogance of its supporters in thinking that they should have exclusive rights to the term football. No, im not saying dont use it at all. All football codes should be allowed to use the term football within ther individual communities.
If it was accepted that most Australians call the sport soccer, and media outlets all folllow suit, then i for one would start following soccer again (not fanatically, just attend matches … watch tv matches etc).
Brian said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Hey Jesse,
The national team is called the Socceroos. Can’t one assume they must play ’soccer’.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:01am | Report comment
The inability of a number of sports journalists to be able to criticize other codes in an articulate manner is disappointing as it is a reflection upon the profession. If they are to write vindictive articles I wish that the journalists would at least have enough pride in their own work to check out some of the basic facts (such as names) with a quick perusal of the FFA site, amongst others. The changing of attitudes is a longer term goal and one that we are on the road to achieving however the standard of football journalism in some papers is a reflection of their own editorial integrity; and too often it is sadly lacking. Whilst I do not always agree with the SBS, their editorial integrity is at a somewhat higher level than those of many of its immediate counterparts.
I believe that Holman has the ability to provide the X-factor in 2010. He has the engine, he finds the space, he allows us to defend high, is off-ball work is great, his first touch isn’t what it could be and his finishing in internationals has been disappointing to say the least. I’m hoping that he corners a starting position with AZ and becomes the footballer we need him to be in time for 2010 because at the moment we are lacking pace.
Nicky Carle is in a similar position. We need a play maker and we need Carle to have a standout year to force his way into the squad.
There are 23 (correct me if I’m wrong) positions for the squad in 2010 and Carle and Holman add variety that will provide us with tactical depth unless Burns/Troisi/Rukavysta can step up this year to provide some alternatives for pace (Troisi, I believe, is ready to impress).
JF said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:03am | Report comment
So, it appears we are agreed that the argument of football getting a raw deal in the media is bs and there is nothing holding the sport back from mainstream acceptance. Let’s hope this marks an end to these boring articles.
Brett McKay said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:06am | Report comment
Pip. just something from your previous post: do you watch 3 out of 4 A-L games on Fox, or do you watch 3/4 of ALL games?!?!
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:07am | Report comment
Ben of PP
good point – Holman and Carle provide plenty of variety in a 23 man squad (as do 2m Jesus, Scotty and Djite).
(but as I said on another thread – god it’s hard watching Holman at times)
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Brett
heh, heh – well spotted!! maybe you’ve caught me out!! might be a bit of both!!
I always watch 100% of MV games (although I may have left the room in disgust late in that 2-0 loss to SFC last season)
And when Carlos was red carded, and then Arch was the following week (after a string of reds in the previous weeks), I was so disgusted, and fuming with such a rage, I just paced around the house for the remainder of those games, occasionally watching the screen (mentally preparing what was to be one of my very first Roar articles – I’m sure many readers will remember that one).
I’ll usually watch most of the other games – but I have been known to go and do something else if I’m a bit bored!! (that will usually happen if either SFC or AU are playing – actually, I tell a lie – the other seven are all bloody hopeless and a bit hard to watch)
sledgeross said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Holman did ok in the first half, but I still see him as someone who can come on in the last 15 minutes for shock value.
First half was quite poor, Jedinak turned the ball over way too much, people were not running into space and therefore had less time on the ball, and were not asking the Bahrainis to do too much in defence.
Second half was probably close to our best in a while, insofar as movement on and off the ball. Grella and Culina worked well as a double team on half way. Scotty Mac tried hard, but looks to be putting pressure on himself. Hard to see him being successful if he is isolated. Might be better used like Holman off the bench.
Robbos said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:17am | Report comment
Dan,
I do not care what preference a person sport is, it’s a personal choice just like choosing your football team. I’m a big follower of football as you have gathered, but I’ve been to many Wallabies games & afew Waraths games as well. I’m also a mad St George supporter, spent many a day at Kogarah oval in my day. But football is my passion.
Let me give you an example, I don’t like the game of basketball, went to a match at the height of the NBL & didn’t enjoy it & didn’t go back. If & when the boomers or opals play for Olympic gold at the olympics, I’m on the edge of my seat cheering them on, if we win GOLD, I don’t expect an article the next day bemoaning the state of basketball in this country & why it will never grow. Why would I not want Australia to succeed even though it’s in a sport I don’t follow.
This was what I took exception to from the articles from the Daily Terror (leave the analysis of the performances to those who knows best) on a day when we should be rejoicing the qualification into the world cup, but instead I equated to the lastposts, striking out in fear, that is the only reason I see why a Rugby League journalist would write such a negative article & why certain posters come onto football blogs purely to put the game down when their country has just qualified for the biggest show on earth. I wanted the team with the ex AFL player to win the super bowl.
Whether Football will become no 1 sport in Australia ( I probably doubt it in my lifetime) is not a real issue, but I would like my sport to treated with respect by the media, if you don’t like the sport, don’t write about it.
Ask Redb about the treatment of AFL from certain Sydney RL journalists, why??? I don’t want to mention the word.
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Some people make the mistake of connecting between the name of the national team – Socceroos – & the generic name of the sport – football.
The Socceroos was coined in an era (1960s) to differentiate the team & the sport from the other football codes – Australian football, rugby union & rugby league.
I think most fair-minded sports fans acknowledge it should be ‘football’, but even I will use the term ’soccer’ occasionally when discussing the 4 football codes. It’s easier sometimes to write soccer than association football, or world football.
I visited the Phil Rothfield column yesterday, & I couldn’t believe a bloke who titled himself as ‘executive sports editor’, could be so incredibly childish in his response to some posters, especially his persistence in calling football as soccer.
Redb said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Sheek,
Maybe Rothfield deserves a place in this article?:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/05/12/sports-journalism-in-need-of-a-few-good-men/
Redb
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:33am | Report comment
Brett McKay,
Just think….. now we can converse on football as well as rugby union, as we go through our ‘transition’ stage.
And no, I won’t be making any national comp suggestions! I reckon the FFA have got their A-League concept pretty well spot on.
Finno said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:37am | Report comment
I have to agree that the main stream media doesnt have quite the understanding of football that you would call educated. You can immediatelty tell if a commentator or sports writer has had football expirence. I listen to the ABC commentary of Bahrain and it wasnt the best. Even the free paper in Brisbane (MX) published a 2 page spread of Englands win yet the Socceroos got less than 1/4 of one page. But the Courier Mail is very poor in the reporting of football at any level. Its all Broncos and the Maroons here. Its more than obvious that the Courier Mail is not lover of football. But I think if the Socceroos keep up the success I cant see main stream media not getting up to speed with better writers. Even the crowd number at the Socceroos game must give an indication that the nation has an underlying support bigger than what the media (in Qld ) want to believe.
What im not so sure about is it the commentators outside of SBS, see the game as a threat to the main stream AFL or NRL or is it ignorance? .
Kurt makes an interesting post and I would like to see what or where is alligance is.
Everybody is waiting to see who is the 1st casualty of the code wars that isnt going on.
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Redb,
Very clever, missed it the first time. Putting Rothfield on trial would be too good for him. I don’t know the guy personally, but from his writing & responses yesterday, I hold him in contempt.
I think, as perhaps Brett suggested, the guy is very uneasy about the threat presented by football.
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Finno,
I think it was the 2000 Olympics where Channel 7 found a gig for every one of its stable stars. The problem was we had presenters at sports who had no idea of sports in general, & absolutely no idea of the sport they were asked to commentate on.
Worse still, they had made little to no attempt to learn anything about that particular sport. It was like, “I’m a celebrity, & I’m here, & that’s all that matters”. It was embarrassing….. for them!
Redb said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:49am | Report comment
Sheek,
Rothfield is s huge rugby league writer/fan, so perhaps to be fair he should have stated that upfront and then passed on his views some of which are not necessarily miles off the mark, instead he went the cheap get more hits angle.
Redb
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Jesse,
the best of your 100 blogs on the ROAR.. Congratulations on the ton. And for entertaining us football tragics with well written informative articles.. It’s always interesting reading ….
SBS is the only true Network that covers the world and Australian Football … Now with SBS 2 there will be so much more international sport of all types to come…
As you have pointed out, the quality of SBS is second to none, and as Pippi has said; I also join him in saying, I hope SBS will forever hold the rights to the FIFA world cups … It’s more than the world cup that they cover; it the cultural experience, which goes along with it…
Les Murray, and his team of analysts and travel guides, are brilliant with the aside travel nature of his World Cup odysseys. Exploring the towns, the cities, and the regions of a country that underpin its unique individual cultural aspects of a location and their stadia; you would otherwise never get to experience in a lifetime…
I can’t wait for the 2010 world Cup in South Africa to start….
~~~~~~~~
KB
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Jesse, what about me?
Haven’t I been enlightening, entertaining and challenging.
I am a true crusader for the world game – just ask my wife and kids.
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Robbos
it’s not a four letter word starting with “F”, is it???
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
SBS don’t show AFL or NRL [or S14 for that matter] for the same reason that the ABC don’t show it – they can’t afford it and don’t have the budget.
It’s not racism against Anglo Saxon Australians.
SBS is a Specialist Broadcasting Service. The vast majority of its viewers prefer football to other sports and that’s why they show it – simple cause and effect – not because they hate NRL or AFL.
If you watch SBS news, they give plenty of air to other sports including AFL and NRL.
Dickroo said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:05pm | Report comment
Holman has improved his game. Better first touches and a few smart distributions.
Macca should have at least given him an assist.
Holman tracked the lost possessions very hard with a remarkable pace. Should be used as a winger on the right? As Park Jin-song in ManU? Rather than occupy the creative mid.
Anyway, he needs composure on the ball and learn to shoot.
A “different” player in the Socceroos – a very defensive forward.
Art Sapphire said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:10pm | Report comment
What holds “soccer” back in this country –
The real people holding football back are the delusional football supporters and writers who think that we are better than what we really are. They expect a national team with limited ability to play offensive, attractive football at the press of a button.
As I said yesterday,
Pim has inherited the 2006 team who are 4 years older and that means 4 years slower.
They can’t play the high tempo stuff of 4 years ago when under Guus. Especially, in South Africa.
I don’t expect the the so called “anti-football” to understand this and as a result they write the usual tripe.
But, its the so called football experts with the rose tinted glasses who expect more from the national team that are the real problem.
So before we start attacking the usual media suspects, we should scrutinise the so called football experts who write and talk about about the game in this country.
In my humble opinion, we are a very immature nation when it comes to football writing.
Just like our playing standards, journalistic standards will evolve and improve over time.
In the meantine, we just have to make do with what we have got, just like the current Socceroos.
Lazza said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
The first round of the World Cup next year is already sold out. Where did the biggest demand for tickets come from?
The USA was numero uno? Our ‘little’ country had the 5th highest demand for tickets? There will be a heck of a lot of Aussies at the ‘Greatest Show on Earth”. How will the Telegraph spin that?
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:16pm | Report comment
Lazza
interesting stats there.
Realfootball said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Qualification this time was never going to match the “Cup Final” of 2005, and I think we are still adjusting to that. This time the focus will be on the tournament itself and I think the Tele (which is an utter rag anyway, the home of fourth rate journos) will be in there with the rest covering the pages with the exploits of the Roos as tv audiences set new records for the Socceroos games. I don’t care, actually, where football is in the pecking order in this country as long as we have a viable A-League. I do, however, think the writing is on the wall for NRL and Rugby. They are on the slide and will continue to decline as mass appeal sports. AFL is different. It is a phenomenon in its own right and more than just a code in southern Australia.
Mackey said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Congrats on the 100 Jesse. Firstly I would like to say that I was quite disappointed upon opening this blog, I was hoping to read a witty and intelligent rebuttal to that waste of space live blog by Phil Rothfield yesterday. I submitted what I thought was a well measured and intelligent comment, guess what, it wasn’t posted. Anyways, as I was saying, I was disappointed to find the gist of your article to be an attack on the fox sports panelists instead of a rebuke aimed at the negative press in the mianstream media at the moment. I understand you work for SBS and am not sure of what happened in the lead up to you leaving Fox, but we are all in this together and this bickering between the two parties is making us as football fans look like fools to any neutral.
Today and over the next year leading to the world cup is the time for everyone to pull together for the game’s sake, we are heading into what will be in my opinion a landmark season for the A-League which will in turn lead into the World Cup, is it possible for the bickering and bitterness to subside given we could be entering into a new era?
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Art Sapphire,
Just some thoughts on the Socceroos being 4 years older.
Life’s a balancing act, isn’t it. In our youth we have natural fitness & enthusiasm. As we get older & lose our natural fitness, pragmatic experience replaces youthful exuberance & expectations.
Yeah, the core of the team is 4 years older & slower. But the experience gained from 2006 is priceless. Remember how they played with a joyous naivety?
In 2010, they might be less showy, but more successful for the experience gained from 4 years previous.
I guess time will tell which will be the fate of the 2010 Socceroos – advancing age, or experienced gained.
Billy McClure said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
SBS TWG is by far the best football program. I was once a obsessed RL fan and player back in the day untill I discovered SBS and Johnny Warren on ‘On the Ball’ (I think it was called that now TWG). I first hated JW for being so critical but soon became addicted to the program and understand the importance of the critisism. JW and Les converted me and Fozz now keeps the fire burning. The whole TWG team keeps the game real and there ideology is rarely ever wrong. I only wish SBS had the cash to own rights to Socceroos and A-League highlights show for free to air coverage as no one does it better than them (award winning coverage of AUS v URG). Simon Hill and Andy Harper from Fox (former TWG players) are the only other crediable TV commentators.
The media will always treat football second rate untill the day Football is paid more than the other codes from a broadcaster which may happen unless we win the World Cup bid in 2018-2022. Its hard to take journalist serious when they back another code as there is a conflict of interest.
Also I hope the Japan game is an attacking spectacle and no more of this same boring football – the socceroos need more than one tactical approach to take to the world cup. Pim tested his bench warmers with his usual system against Bahrain and we won the same usual way so its time to see what else the roos can do – if we lose but score 3 goals and play great attacking football than at least we know we can attack. However I think Pim will look to go for the win and the clean sheet so the record books show him as the coach who got through qualifiers undefeated with no goals against.
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
Most football followers know who how to interpret a News Limited article about football.
Its the potential audience that can be affected and it re-enforces the biases and stereotypes for the detractors of the game.
News Limited is the largest newspaper publisher in Australia, with over 120 metropolitan, regional and suburban titles, including The Australian which remains Australia’s only national daily broadsheet.
News Limited publications account for approximately 70 percent of Australia’s newspaper circulation and the company sells 13.6 million newspapers each week.
While newspapers remain the core of News Limited’s activities, the company has a range of businesses including magazines, book publishing, Internet, telecommunications, television [Fox Sports] and film.
It always tries to be controversial, because it always tries to maximise circulation.
I often wonder what the football writers at News Limited think about their Rugby League and AFL colleagues being given free reign to write condescending articles about football?
Do the football journalists at News Limited have any integrity or credibility either?
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:35pm | Report comment
I could be wrong here, but I don’t see this “problem” in the Melbourne papers, nor in the SMH for that matter (recalling that both The Age and SMH are from the same stable, and The Age is a major sponsor of MV).
Joe FC said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
who cares what the Telegraph & other detractors say!
Dan said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Jimbo,
“Do the football journalists at News Limited have any integrity or credibility either?” I think you need to broaden that to their journalists in general… I mean, they still have Ricky Stuart in their every week with the “games greatest thinker” subtitle underneath his name and even still allow Alan Jones to comment on Rugby from for christ’s sake!
Mick said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
What is holdin the game back? Listenin to the likes of Slater,Prior, Harper, the bloke in london & the fox sport football team talking on their various programmes. Seriously Slater know stuff all, he might have played at a high level but his analysis of game(s) is poor and the way they keep using terms like blockbuster, and trying to add tension to qualification campaign is very plastic
On Pim Verbeek appointment, Robbie Slater said “We might as well have stuck with Graham Arnold” & the other day he is dribbling about criticism from the usual quarters, fox sports you pay this bloke like for an opinion……… just get somebody from the crowd at an a-league game & put them on you team, it would cost a lot less and you would not lose in analysis……
Art Sapphire said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
Yes Sheek – but why then does no one comment on this fact that we are 4 years older and slower and need to compromise our playing style.
Also, Australia benefited from having a so called golden generation on the 90’s. This had nothing to do with development of the game in this country and everything to do with luck and coincidence.
Remember Guus only used 14 players at the last WC because he new that the rest of the squad were not good enough to play at that rarified level.
Pim has the same problem and will be relying on his old players. None of the under 25’s have pushed thru to make a name for themselves. None of them play in the big leagues of Europe, unlike the golden generation.
This sort of introspection is sorely lacking when it comes to people writing about the game here.
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:54pm | Report comment
The Rugby League journalists at News Limited won’t let the truth get in the way of a great story.
Earlier this year the Front Page Banner Headline of the Daily Telegraph was “NRL Record Opening Round”.
Not just amazing for the fact that this was front page news in the country’s highest circulation newspaper but also for the fact that this year’s NRL opening round attendances were actually down 10% on last year’s opening round.
Redb said | June 12th 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
Jimbo,
The Daily Telegrpah is not the country’s highest circulation newspaper.
Redb
Mike Tuckerman said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:11pm | Report comment
Fantastic piece, Jesse.
I only landed in the harbour city at the start week and was stunned by the vitriol spewing off the back pages of the Telegraph in Pim Verbeek’s direction.
BigAl said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:12pm | Report comment
PHWOOOOOAAAAHHH Kurt !!
. . . I’m out’a here !
whiskeymac said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:25pm | Report comment
curiously – does anyone know how many times Pim has made the backpages?
The SMH seems to have a fairly decent football coverage – certainly seesm to have increased in the last few years with Seb Hassett and Cockerill etc having articles almost daily.
Michael C said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Whiskeymac -
and how many ’sex scandals’ has Pim been involved in to generate those (back pages)?? oh, yeah, you’re talking about the SMH and not the DT. My mistake.
Robbos said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:43pm | Report comment
I agree whiskeymac, certainly more than Melbourne Age.
BTW Pip, what is the Herald Sun like down in Melbourne, they are related to the Dialy Terror.
keeper11 said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
‘The Rugby League journalists at News Limited won’t let the truth get in the way of a great story.’
where do you start with the spin, half-truths and misinformation that spews out of that open sewer..
but i will keep it relevant to the current issue raised by Jesse..
the Tele’s ..umm ‘interpretation’ of recent crowds:
League- 35000 v NZ at centenary on a balmy night after a week of saturation front/back page coverage as per usual:
” a higer than expected crowd that delighted league officials’
Footbal – 35000 v Qatar ..socceroos only 2 days later in brisbane ..also hit by torrential rain:
‘ a lower than expected crowd ”
Footbal -70000 v china socceroos … ZERO mention of crowd figure in 1/2 page post game coverage
League- 15000 v GB ‘world cup’ ..ZERO cmention or comment
Football- 40000 v Bahrain – ‘dissapointing ‘
now i know what it must be like to live under some 3rd world one party communist regime…..
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Art,
I asked Roar readers who were rugby union fans, to make the same kind of introspection about that sport. My title – ‘Australian rugby is talentless’ – proved unfortunately to be ultra-provocative.
I was attacked for the title, & not the intent. I was a little amazed so many rugby fans were either unable &/or unwilling to look deeply into their own favourite sport.
So this lack of introspection & maturity perhaps says more about us as a country on the whole, than any particular sport. My generation, those aged about 45 plus, went through the 1976 Olympics for example, when Australia failed to win one single gold medal.
Over the past 15-20 years Australia has enjoyed increasing sporting success across a range of sports. Many of us haven’t experienced a major war or recession. Similarly, there is a large group of sporting fans who don’t know what it’s like for our country to go through lean times across a range of sports.
Greg said | June 12th 2009 @ 1:51pm | Report comment
I went to the match on wednesday night and enjoyed it. I was very impressed with Holman’s work rate, I thought he was one of our best. Scotty also played well and worked hard, his miss in front of goal was unfortunate but not the end of the world. I thought he was very good v the Uzbeks and good v Bahrain. Carle didn’t get up to much during his (limited) time on the pitch. He is not a pinch on Holman, and will not make the 23.
Lazza said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:00pm | Report comment
One of the pleasures of watching Setanta Sports on Pay TV is listening to the English sports journalists. While Football obviously dominates they eventually move on to Cricket, Rugby, League, Boxing and Motor Sports etc. These guys seem to know everything about all those sports and never use their media power to attack sports they may not like.
Compare that to the idiots we have in this country? Most are unethical and unprofessional and quite happy to attack rival sports their little minds perceive to be a threat. They are so ignorant that most wouldn’t be able to talk intelligently about a sport that 50% of their own countrymen follow let alone Football.
Pippinu said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:01pm | Report comment
Robbos
good question.
It is true that the Herald-Sun is renowned across the land as the paper that has aussie rules on the front, in the middle and on the back pages (a reputation that goes back decades).
Generally speaking (and this is coming from someone who buys the Herald-Sun on at least one day of each weekend), the readers and writers are so obsessed with aussie rules, that they really aren’t in a frame of mind to say anything about anything else, good or bad.
Regarding coverage of the A-League – I think it’s fair to say that it is limited to the Victory, and it is less than what The Age does (which, considering The Age’s commercial interest in MV, is probably fair enough).
I would also estimate that broader coverage of the World game is a touch less than The Age (but not a hell of a difference).
The big news with the big clubs is virtually always covered – but it rarely goes deeper than that.
I would estimate that the Socceroos get about the same coverage as you find in The Age.
One positive is that Peter Desira has been writing about soccer since the 60s, and is still there – I remember seeing his name when I was a kid. He must be about 70 years old by now!!
whiskeymac said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:05pm | Report comment
lazza – you gotta hope Setanta dont go under then…..
Kazama said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Congratulations on reaching 100 blogs at The Roar Jesse – well done and good luck for the next 100! Thank you also for the kind words. Great article too, as always.
All I can say is that you are spot on about SBS. I did not grow up a follower of football but I did watch whenever the Socceroos played or the World Cup was on. I was able to do this thanks to SBS. SBS kept the faith when no one else wanted anything to do with our sport and for that I am grateful, as we all should be. Fox Sports might have the money to show a ton of matches, which is fantastic, but SBS has always been the home of football here and hopefully always will.
Josh said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
First up congrats Jesse on 100 posts. Now Onto my one criticism of your blog, I believe Scott Mcdonald deserves more of a chance with the socceroos He puts them in every week with Celtic and you can’t just become a bad player overnight, I beleive it’s a confidence issue and he possibly doesnt fit in with the way Pim plays the team (he’s not and never will be a lone striker) but I beleive his goalscoring ability could become invaluble to the team as soon as he gets of the mark for the first time he needs a good partner though which means Pim needs to change his system (he does for other reasons too) anyways thats just my view. Onto Holman I have a mate who reckons he must have some friends in high places and has some sort of gentlemans agreement to get into the socceroos because he is not an international level player yes he works hard but so does Tim Cahill and Cahill also happens to have talent. Im with you in hoping Carle plays at least a good 30mins against Japan he deserves it but i too am pessimistic of his chances.
Art Sapphire said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
Well said sheek !
I remember the teachers dragging us out to watch mens 1500m swim in 1976.
They wanted to show the kids an Australian winning a gold medal. Stephen Holland came 3rd!
No wonder I grew up to be a cynic
whiskeymac said | June 12th 2009 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
Maybe josh. but i am mindful that there have been some great club strikers who didnt really cut it at international level. Ian Wright, Robbie Fowler spring to mind. For whatever reason sometimes they dont set the international pitch on fire like they just,well, “should”. I hope Scotty does come good, and am a big fan, but there is a precedent in the game for players for whatever reason not being as brilliant as club form suggests. conversly i think Carney and Sterj have shown the opposite – no club form to show recently but good international performances.
Lazza said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
If you are an expert in one sport only and that’s all you comment on that’s fine. If you have pretensions of being a Sports Journalist then you should know what you’re talking about.
Whiskeymac,
Setanta seem to have found a last minute investor to save them from Administration. Apparently they paid too much for their Cricket and Rugby coverage which aren’t huge ratings winners over there.
Pippinu, they are interesting stats about the World Cup ticket demand especially the USA being number one. What can I say? I have too much free time at work and the boss hasn’t noticed yet?
True Tah said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Lazza
do they have stats on tickets purchased by South Africans or is it just foreigners?
Are many Roarers booking their tickets now?
Albert Ross said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
>>Courier Mail is very poor in the reporting of football at any level. Its all Broncos and the Maroons here. Its more than obvious that the Courier Mail
The proprietor of the Curious Snail is R. Murdoch Esq. Is he in some way related to the ultimate owner of the Brisbane Bronchitis and a controlling shareholder of the National (well if by “national” you mean “east coast”) RL? I think we should be told.
Midfielder said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
True Tah
There is a ticketing process and each country is granted a number of tickets regardless of if the make the WC or not… after the make up of the final 32 is known more tickets are put up for sale … and I think there is a third and maybe fourth release… All tickets allocated to Australia where purchased within and half a day…
dakeyrus said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
Kurt, the shiny band wagon is getting smaller this time round? This just shows your ignorance of soccer and the World Cup qulaification process through Asia and Oceania. Though i really dont thinks its a shiny band wagon more so a realisation that the socceroos are playing better opponents. Bear with me for a moment and you will see my point. Below i have outlined the teams that we played in qualfiying for each
Qualification for 2006
Uruguay
New Zealand
Soloman Islands
American Somoa
Fiji
Qualification for 2010
Japan
Bahrain
Uzbekistan
Iraq
China
Qatar
Now i follow the Socceroos and have for a long time. I went to the Asian Cup in Thailand in 2007 to watch them play and had a great time (even though the socceroos play was not up to scratch). I know that i would prefer to have the socceroos play against teams from Asia. As has been discussed, the opposition is stronger and we dont rely on a one off play-off situation to qualify.
I cant even remember the crowd sizes against the teams from Oceania. Needless to say they werent that large, except for the Uruguay game which was sold out in Melb, and lets be real, was the only game that really mattered. I can understand, who wants to see the socceroos thump Somoa. I didnt.
Now to my point. I went to the Iraq game at Suncorp Stadium and it was almost sold out (almost $60k). I went ot see a ’second string’ Australian team play China in Sydney in 2008 where they had roughly $70k people there. The game against Bahrain had $40k people. The Game next wednesday against Japan in Melb i am going to and that will be close to sold out. Pretty impressive crowd figures i think. And these are only for the qualifying stages. Crowds are bigger this time as the opposition is better. Crowds are bigger because the games are more important. People appreciate this and are turning out to watch the game.
One a side note, i went to the Rugby League World cup (i like rugby league as well) in Melbourne. I will remind you that is number 2 v number 3 in the world and there was 35k people there. And that was a world cup group game.
Michael C said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
art Sapphire -
I remember the teachers dragging us out to watch mens 1500m swim in 1976.
They wanted to show the kids an Australian winning a gold medal. Stephen Holland came 3rd!
You too!!
FOr mentally scarring sports ‘failures’ it ranks up there with my failed investment on Dulcify to win the Melbourne Cup a coupla years later.
I just recall thinking it odd that “Holland” was doing it for “Australia”……and now we’ve had Hiddinck and have Verbeek and it seems somehow right???
Lazza said | June 12th 2009 @ 3:59pm | Report comment
True Tah,
Midfielder has probably answered your question. I’d love to go but circumstances at home prevent me from travelling at the moment. What could be better than soaking up all that party atmosphere, standing shoulder to shoulder with 30-40k of your countrymen and women, singing our national anthem with pride at the world’s biggest sporting event? Are you listening Kurt?
Thinking of going yourself Tah? Might be able to combine it with a bit of Rugby as well? I’ll probably use up all my leave to watch it. Can’t stay up all night watching Football and do a days work as well?
Michael C said | June 12th 2009 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
Robbos -
re the Melbourne Herald Sun -
the back page is only so relevant these days any way – as it’s the front page of the sport lift out that can be ‘golden’.
Herald Sun sports homepage on the net has -
rotating photos of Cadel Evans (cycling), Phil Hughes (cricket) and Mazzacano (a jumps horse)
The thumbnail photo and headline column runs thusly:
Lakers comeback snatches lead (Basketball)
Deakes unfit to defend walk title (Walking/athletics)
Pink ribbon Phil Mickelson fires back (Golf)
Symonds out, Tait in (Cricket)
Roddick serves up Hewitt defeat (Tennis)
Cadel loses lead in ‘bizarra’ race (Cycling)
Man U accept Ronaldo bid (Soccer)
South Africa crush England (Cricket)
Buck will hurt Poms (Cricket)
No Crocker fear (NRL)
basically – - -nothing in that lot to indicate that you’re looking at a Melbourne paper that hit’s the street with 80% of sports section related to one particular football code. That’s what I find interesting about the Herald Sun – - the online sportspage rarely reflects the on the street printed copy.
Very, very distinct to the stable mate Daily Telegraph -
rotating photos, 2, both NRL
Thumbnails section -
Gould coaching offer on table (NRL)
Symonds loses Cricket Australia contract (Cricket)
United sell Ronaldo for record price (Soccer)
A vastly different focus there – which is why some of us suggest that the NRL get’s that little bit extra (because of the News Ltd vested interest),
But, the point is – in BOTH, the primary soccer reference is re Man U and Ronaldo – - and NOT the Socceroos and Mark Schwarzer.
Which leads me to the logical question – - based on over night news – IF a soccer player were to be on the back page of the dailies in Melb and Sydney – should it be A.Ronaldo, B. Schwarzer or C. any of Josh Kennedy, Sterjovski, Carney??
True Tah said | June 12th 2009 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
Thanks for answering the question re: ticketing.
Im not going myself, Ive been to South Africa a few times, and can thoroughly recommend it as a holiday destination, Kruger National Park is an absolute must. I think the provincial rugby unions have given FIFA access to their various stadiums for the world cup, so there wont be any rugby played during the tournament.
onside said | June 12th 2009 @ 4:23pm | Report comment
Oh dear Jesse , quiet day,jerk the chain.Tell me you are not getting paid for this.But it worked.And thats the benchmark
Bruce Walkley said | June 12th 2009 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
Firstly, News Ltd, as a major part-owner of the national rugby league competition, has a vested interest in knocking soccer (football means, and always will, the Australian game in all but the north-eastern corner of this country). So the diatribes in the Tele yesterday and the day before were only to be expected. Secondly, everyone who professes to be a supporter of the round-ball game in this country should get off Pim Verbeek’s back and recognise his achievement for what it is – monumental. Thirdly, why is anyone bitching about getting “only” 39,000-odd to a dead rubber on a night that would freeze the proverbials off a brass monkey. Verbek knows exactly what he is doing, it’s just a pity that we found him 30 years too late.
keeper11 said | June 12th 2009 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
either way…a great piece that had to be said
football afficionados are not hyper-sensitive…
balanced, intelligent critisicm by well-informed sources is not discouraged..
but 2 days after our national team historic succesive WC qualification..
a time when which ever way you see it..is inherently a football ‘feelgood’ story..
for some clueless , unethical, unproffesional hacks ..with their own blatant agenda ..
come out and poor sh*t over not only the team but the whole code……
it all SMELLS….
but unfortunately totally expected in the backwater pond that is australias commercial print media..
btw..
what would have been the Terrors response had the socceroos failed to qualify??
me thinks….. ‘ SOCCER RIP ‘
..( i.e. and victory cheer here at news-limited )
Eamonn said | June 12th 2009 @ 4:46pm | Report comment
Josh: Point of order. As a Celtic fan if Scott Mc had “put them in every week,” Celtic would have won the league.
Celtic attack every team who come to Parkhead, for 90 minutes unless it’s Barca, Man Utd or AC Milan in which case we would but we can’t get the ball. However that doesn’t stop us from winning, as AC Milan will testify if not Fozzie. Celtic play a number of attackers, some big buggers an all, and have players like Nakamura feeding Scott constantly. He scores, but not every week. Indeed just two more Scott goals instead of many Scott misses would have secured the title.
This Celtic fan does not think he scores enough..despite what the Aussie media seem to think.
Good one Jesse give em heaps
The Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
I’ll tell you all what’s really holding Football back: playing two “holding” midfielders. In fact it’s a predicament that is holding all international football back.
GeneralAshnak said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:19pm | Report comment
I have finally made it onto this site (too many football sites to keep up with!) as I have been meaning to for a fair while.
Jesse I think you are right in your TWG blog to stop pushing Carle, it definately harms him more than it helps him to have Pim pushed on the issue. I think that Pim has become ultra sensitive to outside pressure after his experience in Korea (unfortunately he has become too stubborn!).
As for the match and the whole qualification process. Too many people are jumping to unsubstantiable conclusions. The idea that there is any form of crisis in football with regard to our crowd attendances, popularity, playing style and achievements have any credible basis in reality is laughable. The only true critisism that can be levelled at the Socceroos and Pim is that they are playing football that is too taylored for the situation. There is little that could be said to a style that Australian football will progress with evident – other than pragmatisism. Hopefully against Japan with an almost full squad we will see Pim give the boys a rocket prior to the start of the game and we will get to see back to back second halves out of the team.
As far as the response of some very passionate football fans to the derision and spite aimed at our sport, well you just have to turn the other cheek. You especially will not win someone over by being an aggressive and abusive bastard. A bit of stick is useful but only when you combine it with some carrot too.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:25pm | Report comment
IMO whats holding soccer back is that its quite simply overrated as a sport and most aussies can see through it as can most kiwis, canucks, yanks and saffies, i could never understand why it is called the beautiful game when there is so much loose ugly ball change in the midfield.
Generally most white anglo/saxon/celtic people except ironically people living in the UK dont really care for soccer to much as they have developed their own sports which suit their culture and require much more physical contact than a namby pamby wishy washy game of soccer.
Lastly it really makes me sick to see so many soccer fans on this site stating time after time how soccer is the world game and 3 million nations play it and its the only way to trade with martians so we all should play it and we should get government grants and the world cup is biggest show ever and 75 zillion people watch it and etc etc etc…who gives a flying.
I for one hope (soccer) the bland macdonalds of the sporting world never becomes the number one football code in this country.
The Answer said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:28pm | Report comment
Yep Koala Bear, we are all petrified of of the socceroos. Sure once the that World Cup comes around then the other sports just know that no one will ever watch them again. I mean everyone who has ever attended a football match has never watch their sport again.
Remember, the football war exists in this site and not in reality.
The Answer said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Bruce Walkley, News Ltd also has an exclusive deal to broadcast all A-League matches. So they hardly exercise to bag the soccerball kickers.
Have News Ltd papers not beaten up every rugby league indiscretion? Wake up and actually read the papers.
Eamonn said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:34pm | Report comment
beaver fever do you write for the Telegraoh..you should…as for “bland Mcdonalds” no need to pick on Scott just because he hasn’t scored for Australia.
and for the record I’m a Celtic person and love me footy mate..and just quietly the Americans (or yanks as you say) are the biggest purchasers of World Cup tickets, South Africans number one sport is..yes you guessed it football and last time I looked there weren’t that many Canucks in the world, and the Kiwi’s rocked the world with their 4-3 loss to Italy the other day.
Either way who cares, enjoy your sport,,,,just quit bagging football and we’ll all be right.
Norm said | June 12th 2009 @ 5:45pm | Report comment
- “most white anglo/saxon/celtic people… dont really care for soccer…suit their culture…namby pamby wishy washy game of soccer.”…so beaver brain what do you find so offensive about non-white people?
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:00pm | Report comment
Oh dear …………. Norm……….. trying to play the race card or something, i never said anything about non-white people …. talk about playing the man and not the ball.
Quite simply most anglo/saxon/celtic people i know who are past 2 generations in this country and most others (settled by people from the british isles) dont follow soccer they have developed their own sports which better suit them…. read rugby, american and canadian football and australian football.
Codes which are far more physical than than soccer which by comparison is a bit of a nancy boy game.
westy said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:22pm | Report comment
This is typical with Jesse he hides the truth to pursue his own peculiar interests. The Sydney Daily telegraph will treat any sport or official with contempt that places a media ban on its players ( including those not selected for the game ) .
This is especially so when there next home game is in the Tele’s backyard in Sydney with the next one months away.
Declined requests to interview Cahill/ Neill and other players not involved or for a prearranged photoshoot ( this was a no brainer)will be met by fire.
News Ltd like it or not have a business to run and just as they did with Cricket Australia not giving their journalists access affects their subjective reporting of the sport.
Editors have been known to let a few ignorant hounddogs of the leash to make a point.
This article is more about self promotion of both its author and his employer SBS. A television station not renowned for its promotiom of the A League or Pim.
I feel another Nicky Carle coming on
tifosi said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:29pm | Report comment
Beaver fever, you sound like this other guy who used to post here, one and only master, you arent the same guy are you?
Also, it was mostly white anglo/celtic/saxon people that i saw at the socceroos game in sydney on wednesday.
You forget whats happening now, people will still love their AFL/NRL but they are also liking football too. This trend will continue as well.
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:34pm | Report comment
Bear,
I totally agree with you… Pim has been too cautious in his formation… What a disappointment.. I have to also stress that the criticism towards the Telegraph is understandable, however, Pimbo did put a media ban on the Roo players that was totally ridiculous, even after we secured the qualification… At a time when we need all the good publicity we can get and so yet again he shoots himself in the foot…
I bought a copy of the Telegraph with that rant made by the said journalist and in it that same copy was an eight page lift out of the successful qualification team that played Qatar with the team centre fold spread… I thought it was a good gesture by the Telegraph.. Looking at the team shot there was only 3 new faces in it from 2006… So how is it possible that the team of 2006 that frilled us all with exciting attacking football, can dish up such tripe today.. We of course know why; it’s because of the dour tactics applied by Pim
~~~~~~~~
KB
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:38pm | Report comment
Nope different guy, oh well all i can give is my opinion, just from what i see.
Although i did make a mistake in my first post anglo/celtic people are white so need to state white anglo/celtic people.
Billo said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:42pm | Report comment
The trouble with soccer is that for much of the time it really can be quite boring, and, in Europe at least, it derives much of its excitement from the tribalism of its crowds, which is largely absent in Australia other than for those games where World Cup qualification is at stake, which then suddenly become transformed into thrilling contests where the quality of the football doesn’t matter.
As for the Telegraph, if you think its coverage doesn’t do soccer much good in Sydney, for some reason it seems to have a permanent agenda to try to discredit rugby league. The ‘beautiful game’ is quite fortunate by comparison.
Incidentally, if you really want to understand media bias, you should try to find anything about rugby league in the English press.
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:45pm | Report comment
The Answer,
yep you have answered your own question … What was your quesion again…?
~~~~~~~~
KB
Robbos said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:49pm | Report comment
Guys why do you even bother with these losers. why are they even on a football blog.
Beaver fever & the Answer, you are right, we are disillusioned in our own little world, it’s not reality, no need for you to intervene, we are quite sane, we just like to indulge, now go away, I’m sure there a MAN’s game out there for you to partake, watch or whatever, no need to return.
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
beaver fever,
Did you ever find that AFL Option contract and its terms on the Etihad Dome… Do you know where it lies? in the fools bin…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Joe FC said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:57pm | Report comment
beaver brain you are the one who introduced the issue of skin colour as being determinative of things “namby pamby” & “wishy washy” and according to you it’s not “most white…people”. Too late to re-write your history.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 6:58pm | Report comment
Robbos the question was posed “whats holding soccer back”. i gave my opinion… take it or leave it.
KB …. dont really know much about it, but from chatting to you before and roughly knowing your age you probably will never find out or remeber..
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
Joe fc …. dont know what you are talking about but countries such as the US, Canada, NZ, SA and OZ which were primarily settled by people with anglo/celtic backgrounds have by and large turned their backs on soccer, immigrants who have been in OZ less than 2 generations have been the backbone of soccer in this country.
Robbos said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:10pm | Report comment
Put it this way Beaver fever, if the question was what’s holding (AFL, Rugby League, Rugby Union) back & I have no interest in these games, I would not even bother looking into blog. So you either are a secret lover of the game of soccer or you are so blinded by hate & fear that you needed to comment. You can get help you know for both issues.
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:13pm | Report comment
Beaver Fever,
Age, Experience and treachery will always over come youthful impulsiveness when it comes to business dealings .. keep trying….
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
Norm,
I hope…
its gone quiet – off to watch the Bulldogs smash the Broncos on the Telly
~~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
Jesse,
well done lad … over a ton of posts on your first century blog….
~~~~~~~~~
KB
Norm said | June 12th 2009 @ 7:41pm | Report comment
KB
as long as the Roosters get a win.
Joe FC
beaver brain’s in denial.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:13pm | Report comment
So what you are saying robbos if i have anything that can be remotely construed as negative to soccer then i should not to post.
The fact is soccer in this country is held back by the already established footy codes which are quite a lot more physical than soccer which quite frankly is a bit nancy girl sport in comparison, generally aussies like their footy quite a lot tougher rougher than soccer.
Sorry to be bearer of bad news but perhaps you should toughen up a bit yourself sunshine.
Brave Omagh said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
Holman has had more then enough chances for the national team now. It is time to give some other younger players in midfield a run. He does run a lot, but ball skill is not up to standard and loses the ball with frustrating regularity.
Scott McDonald is not that good a player, his small stature doesnt help our style of play. He is luckily enough to be given opportunity’s on a plate at Celtic but has unfortunately not impressed at all in the national shirt. We are in dire need of a really good striker, the goals in the last couple of years have come from midfielders (cahill, bresc, kewell, emo) which is great but a quality striker defintely need to get further at the 2010 WC. At the moment we are short of options. McDonald defintely should not be played alone up front, maybe worth a try alongside Jesus.
The Aussies did pass the ball quite well for periods on Wednesday. Maybe even passed it around too much at times without looking for the killer punch.
I’ve been to the Iran WC Qualifier the 2005 Urguay qualifier and was in Japan in February also for the qualifier. I have also been to many league and AFL matches over the years and enjoyed the games, but Football matches are on a different level. A lot more passion, tension and much higher level of skill required to compete at International level.
SBS have done a great job with Football, sticking with it during its darkest times. If it wasn’t for SBS, Football in Australia would not be where it is today.
The newspapers are extremely biased towards NRL in NSW/QLD and AFL in VIC. The Herald Sun is probably the main culprite. Pages and pages of pointless stats about how many touches someone has had in a game. One thing that I have found strange about AFL is that you get rewarded with a point for missing the target.
Bring on South Africa 2010
eh said | June 12th 2009 @ 8:48pm | Report comment
BEaver fever – your unique take on sports in the “dominions” is a great piece of provocative posting. it’s not original or informed but it has it’s place on a site like any other opinion. but really…when you say people in the dominions and the reasons for their prefernces do you just mean the privileged guys or all the citizens of those countries? it seems odd that you say in countries like RSA that the main sports are rugby when the majority population – incidentally being black or are you still seeing the rainbow nation with aparthied preferences? – follows football.
as an aside the post also seem to suggest these countries were primarily civilised/settled by anglos. well. c’mon. not only do all these countries have large indigenous populations which you seem to have disregarded (do zimbabwe, rhodesia (sorry Kenya) not count?) and whose prefernces in sport you dont take into consideration, but there were massive inputs from france,holland, germany,china and a raft of other.countries following the great immigration waves. more accurate to say that the british empire adminstered but certainly didnt populate these areas on their own.
saying al that- your main point i think was that those countries prefer toughman sports. yeah maybe. although in canada its ice hockey because of climate most likely as much as anything; USA likes grdiron because…who knows, isolationist policies do funny things to people..and the national game baseball aint “tough”. further, i cannot explain a country that advocated prohibition anyway. another point though is that in all thes eplaces football is on the increase or has healthy particpation rate, am not aware if the same could besaid for the games thos eplaces prefer.
and for the record i like union and ice hockey. gridiron maybe would be watchble if it wasnt dictated by advert breaks…
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
So i have a unique take but not original or informed……….hmmm…. ok then.
What i have said is that the original anglo/celtic cultures/peoples that settled the americas, parts of south africa and australia/NZ took rugby with them and developed their own code ….or if the link was strong enough stayed just with rugby, they liked their footy physical.
Early British settlers in Australia, America, Canada and South Africa included convicts and others similarly disillusioned and determined to forget what they had left behind. Theirs was a roughtough life-style and when it came to diversion they preferred a form of blood sport Hence we saw the development of rugby, Australian football, gridiron and ice hockey
Robbos said | June 12th 2009 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
Wow beaver fever, I was only joking before, but you do really have some issues, sorry to have been so insenitive.
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:02pm | Report comment
redb,
the Sunday Telegraph is Australia’s largest circulation newspaper with nearly 700K, but you are right the Daily Telegraph does get pipped by the Herald Sun, so we get half a mark each.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:08pm | Report comment
I wasn’t joking i was serious…. but i will know in the future to take you as a joke.
Norm said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:19pm | Report comment
beaver brain
your neanderthal theories on anthropology are a bit like international aussie rules…discredited.
westy said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:25pm | Report comment
As is typical with Jesse he hides substance to pursue his own agendas’
The Sydney Daily Telegraph has in the past and will in the future treat any club . sport or official with a blowtorch that places a media ban on its players ( including those not selected to play ) or that refuses their journalists access to sporting events.
This is especially so when the team has just qualified foe the World Cup and play their next game afew days later on their home turf in Sydney. Declining requests for a photoshoot ( areal no brainer if there ever was one ) and for interviews with Cahill and Neill and other players not involved will be met by fire.
News Ltd like it or not run a business and denying them any access was a business mistake.
News Ltd editors have been then known to let an ill informed attack dog of the leash to make a point.
Jess’e article is more about the promotion of himself and his employer SBS. A television station not renowned for its promotion of the A League or for that matter Pim.
I feel another Nicky Carle coming on.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:42pm | Report comment
Dear Norm, i have yet to read your theory on “what is really holding soccer back”
Do you have one ….do you have a theory, i know, is it me stating that soccer is for sissys, well do you have anything besides your abuse.
Is it the migrant connection to soccer.
Is it blocking of facilities by other codes.
Is it because soccer has shown a persistent failure to obtain and hold media coverage, particularly free-to-air commercial television.
Is it because throughout soccer’s history in Australia there have been incidents of financial mismanagement, corruption and the burning of sponsors.
Another factor inhibiting the growth of soccer was the failure to get teachers or police involved in states other than NSW heavily involved in the game.
The greater availability of open space and grass militated against the development of soccer compared with cricket and Australian rules, which were more suitable to societies with more land
Midfielder said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
beaver fever
Go have a Bex a cup of tea and a good lie down …… you will soon feel better
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:48pm | Report comment
westy
you’ve got to be joking mate.
What about the customary media ban Wayne Bennett regularly puts on his players and in particular before state of origin games on Queenslanders.
When in the history of Australia media has Wayne Bennett ever copped a spray from the Daily Telegraph or any other Rugby League media for that matter, about that?
Is Wayne Bennett an arrogant prick? Is he causing the downfall of Rugby League?
This is not uncommon, in any sport to keep the players away from the media. The Socceroos were tired – they’d just had 24 hours travel from Doha and just wanted to rest.
The Daily Telegraph was free to photograph them last night at the Australian Football Awards. Where were they? Where’s the Daily Telegraph story about it?
The way the Daily Telegraph have treated Pimbo and the Socceroos and football in general over the years, I would be grateful if the Daily Telegraph never went near them again.
Why are known anti Soccer Rigby League journalists covering the Socceroos?
What happened to their staff football writers?
Did they refuse to be part of this witch-hunt and they had to use rugby league hacks.
This goes beyond business – its bias, its conflict of interest, it’s protecting your investments from the growing popularity of your competitors.
It’s a load of horseshit mate.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:53pm | Report comment
Forgot to add that private schools especially catholic boys schools did not like soccer either.
And of course low scoring. boring and crowd violence.
The catholic priests i reckon got it right, footy and rugby teams were much more like teams than soccer teams which has been expressed to me by people who have played both codes.
Midfielder said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:55pm | Report comment
Jimbo
News give it to Bennett as well… he may have a point… not to allow a photoshoot … and Lucas who is an excellent media guy to talk may have been a mistake afterall he was suspended… maybe its News saying you want good stories … we want access to players… not saying I agree but it does make sense…
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 10:57pm | Report comment
westy
read this
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7235/is_200109/ai_n29545867/
you’ll never see it reported in the Daily Telegraph.
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:00pm | Report comment
beaver,
you’re familiar with all the anti-Soccer stereotypes aren’t you mate.
Why don’t you apply for a job as a soccer journalist at the Daily Telegraph.
sheek said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:00pm | Report comment
Art,
Poor old Steve Holland broke the world record, not to mention his own best time, in finishing in the bronze medal position in that 1500m freestyle swim in 1976.
He felt he had let Australia down down by failing to win the gold medal, & it broke his heart. Instead of cheering him as a champion, many in the media panned him for being a loser.
Disgraceful!
Midfielder said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:03pm | Report comment
beaver fever
It’s OK mate we know …. Your http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1po5MES23qo
David V. said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:04pm | Report comment
Football is the one sport that can promote unity and understanding, something the AFL fanboys here have done anything but- if anything the AFL’s usage of the “indigenous game” line is divisive and alienating.
Midfielder said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:06pm | Report comment
Beaver
Great web site for you … I am sure you will love … apply and you can become their Australia write … Its called Soccer Sucks… http://www.soccersucks.net/
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:09pm | Report comment
Jimbo stereotypes dont just happen they take quite a while to take shape and do so quite often because the shoe fits.
Deal with it.
I would hate to live in Sydney.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:13pm | Report comment
Midfielder i had no idea there was any sort of web site like that, i am not sure what to make of it or you for that matter.
I believe the points i have raised here have you in a bit of a tiff, its OK there just stereotypes.
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:19pm | Report comment
and years of brainwashing beaver . . . you’re marked for life.
Not sure which sport you follow mate, but I have an open mind and enloy a number of sports including rugby league.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:20pm | Report comment
David V ………this is another reason that that creates anti-soccer feeling, soccer boys constantly state that soccer is the only sport that can create peace and harmony, unity and understanding … say it enough times boys and i am sure you will believe it.
Generally Australians get sick of having that crap force fed to them about soccer…..except it appears to a greater degree Sydney.
bollocks.
Trumped up nonsence….do you guys actually think about the dribble that you write.
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:23pm | Report comment
Well jimbo in great schoolboy style it takes one to know one.
I enjoy a great number of sports as well, thanks for asking.
jimbo said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
beaver,
Melbournite AFL follower . . . am I correct?
beaver fever said | June 12th 2009 @ 11:37pm | Report comment
Perth…. australian football, volleyball, tennis, rugby league etc etc etc
Captain Random said | June 13th 2009 @ 12:00am | Report comment
Damn it. beaver fever would have been fantastic for my code wars article. Oh well. I’m still curious because I want to understand the motivation. Care to share, beaver?
(I know about the double meaning of the last sentence. I just don’t care.)
Midfielder said | June 13th 2009 @ 12:02am | Report comment
Jimbo
I had more time to consider Westy’s post … he asks a valid question given as you said above Football tradition connection with mainstream media..
Let’s assume News wants to sell heaps of papers … put a picture of Kool training… have a chat to the suspended Skipper now lets look who was out … and players know to be out Top Catt Western Sydney Boy, Lucas Neil Northern Beaches boy, Chippers from the gong. Plus a number of young players in the squad. Gret news and TV footage ..
What could have been a great picture of Kool as I said with a met and greet with three Socceroo Heroes was turned away…
News got the shits sold less papers … and so want to send a message … you want good stories give us access… then the day after the match instead of the our heroes traveling overcoming all this hardship … no fuck em let set Joee on em just write whatever you think…
As you know I am a Pim backer … but me thinks Westy may be onto something..
David V. said | June 13th 2009 @ 12:19am | Report comment
beaver fever… what trumped up nonsense? Don’t like to be confronted with insular attitudes?
bennalong said | June 13th 2009 @ 1:25am | Report comment
Geez ,
Saw “football” and thought I was on a Rugby Union blog.
The Footballaroos need a bit of a rev up. But don’t blame the media. Soccer gets a better go than our older football code and we win Internationals against the best in the world.
Too many football codes competing for a relatively small audience
Why not go for a different name? Soccer anyone?
whiskeymac said | June 13th 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
bennalong… too easy and obviously posted for a rise and yet cant help but ask why do you call the same game rugby union and football? maybe explains your confusion =) almost as confused as beaverfevers history of colonialism and the development of sport in the privileged white enclaves of the western world. too many knocks in the scrum maybe?
Koala Bear said | June 13th 2009 @ 11:27am | Report comment
Jesse, what about me? Haven’t I been enlightening, entertaining and challenging. I am a true crusader for the world game – just ask my wife and kids.
Jimbo,
a terrible oversight indeed it was by Jesse …. Jesse shame on you… No more late nights out with the CRSL Ladies Auxiliary … Jimbo on behalf of the girls, Norm, and me … Hopefully Jesse will write soon to acknowledge the terrible oversight it was … On behalf of all… Let me say SORRY…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Norm said | June 13th 2009 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
btw KB the Toyota Coaster is going to have to undergo a substantial refit in order to make it to….SOUTH AFRICA.
The Bear said | June 13th 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Redb, thanks for the response re:SBS and their coverage of a broad range of sporting endeavours. I also recall SBS having a finger in the motor racing pie, surely motoring enthusiasts embrace SBS’s accomodation to this “niche” sport. I am sure Peter Brock stayed up a few late nights glued to SBS, how very un-Australian!! And then there is cycling…To be sober and reasonable I don’t think it is SBS and it’s so called “ethnic bias” that is holding Football back, it’s probably due to a perception that SBS is a marginalised broadcaster. Now someone of your intelligence wouldn’t *agree* with that opinion, now, would you??
Captain Random said | June 13th 2009 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
“Generally most white anglo/saxon/celtic people except ironically people living in the UK dont really care for soccer to much as they have developed their own sports which suit their culture and require much more physical contact than a namby pamby wishy washy game of soccer.”
By giving us this example, what are you trying to say? That the opinions and preferences of white people are more important? And if not, then why say it at all?
Oh wait, he’s gone now. No answer to my previous question either, which suggests that he doesn’t understand what he’s doing.
Oh, and by the way, I have no desire to increase the amount of physical contact I have with other men.
beaver fever said | June 13th 2009 @ 5:30pm | Report comment
David V … what arrogance of you to think that soccer is the only sport that can bring mankind unity,harmony, peace and goodwill.
Where do you get off mate……the most amazing thing is you probably really believe it.
beaver fever said | June 13th 2009 @ 5:37pm | Report comment
Captain random…… i think its pretty well known (except possibly you) that the anglo/celts developed the majority of the footy codes that we play …… in fact i cant think of one that they did not.
Most countries that the British settled are the very countries that have an aversion to soccer….why…i have given my reasons why in relation to the topic at hand and i have no idea what you are trying to say, perhaps random by name random by nature.
David V. said | June 13th 2009 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
Well in this country where unity and inclusion is needed rather than division and exclusion. What we don’t want is indoctrination with poisonous, xenophobic paranoia that some sports promote.
beaver fever said | June 13th 2009 @ 5:47pm | Report comment
Lots of words David but really you must think long and hard before you state that soccer is the one sport that can create unity and harmony when quite clearly it is one of the sports over the years that has created violence and disunity.
There are so many sports that create good will between different countries that i cannot possibly list them all.
Get off your high horse.
David V. said | June 13th 2009 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Well football isn’t the only sport I love you know. But it is discouraging to see that some in the AFL have co-opted a dangerous agenda, much like that of some in the the GAA.
beaver fever said | June 13th 2009 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
Go ahead and explain this dangerous agenda to me.
Midfielder said | June 13th 2009 @ 8:00pm | Report comment
Back to Westy’s theory about News … saying to FFA … you want coverage then don’t cut off player access in the first time since 2005 the entire squad is together and just when a WC bid is about to be started..
Channel 10 tonight normally a great supporter of Football had nothing… the smh today almost nothing….
That article about Soccer that could date back to the 70’s from NEWS…. unusual to say the least …
My reading of the tea leafs is FFA are being told in a very public way … Pims decision to cut the media access to Socceroos has not been well received … the smh did run today an interesting article from Sebastian Hassett (quickly becoming IMO Australia’s best Football writer) http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/as-an-evangelist-for-the-game-verbeek-makes-a-wonderful-coach/2009/06/12/1244664847650.html anyhow he in his article indicates Pims needs to have a bit more flare as the Aussie media … demand it … we may not like it … but the lack of coverage this weekend is SCREAMING AT FOOTBALL … the media is not happy Jane.
Mackey said | June 13th 2009 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
beaver fever you are offensive, ill-informed, bigoted and making a fool of yourself. Stop. Now.
jimbo said | June 13th 2009 @ 10:16pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
I take your point, but lets also remember that the Telegraph weren’t the only media people who were told the Socceroos were resting and wouldn’t be available.
Did the other papers get their noses out of joint and make it back page news. Did they send their meanest Rugby League journalists to do a job on him?
The Telegraph has hudreds of Socceroos photos on file that they could have retrieved and made a story about it – they don’t need any more photos of the Socceroos.
As a person, I don’t like Pimbo either, he reminds me of a lot of arrogant Europeans who I don’t like.
It might be worth reminding him that this isn’t the Netherlands.
While he has a fantastic record that may never be bettered and we’ve qualified for another World Cup, there’s still a lot of work left to do to make that translate into gold for the FFA in terms of the growth of the game here. And as head coach and a recognisable public figure, I agree he has a bit to learn and be a proud ambassador for Australia as well, whether he likes it or not.
jimbo said | June 13th 2009 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
Not to worry KB, there are lots of great football bloggers out there like Mastrobator, Kurt, The 1 and whatever, The Answer, Michael C, redb and beaver feeler who didn’t get a mention from Jesse either.
I think the best thing to do is load up the Coaster right now and head off for the Cape of Good Hope and take along a couple of News Limited journalists with us to share the ride to the World Cup in South Africa.
Away the lads!
Midfielder said | June 13th 2009 @ 10:29pm | Report comment
jimbo
The Terror have gone after the throat … others are not as blunt … But banning the media in the week of the WC launch at Canberra tomorrow I think… and a full strength squad is here how often … not even a photoshout requested with 48 hours notice … seems to me a message is being sent loud and clear…
jimbo said | June 13th 2009 @ 10:58pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
the Telegraph are ruthless:
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25624524-5006068,00.html
Look what they are doing to poor little Paris Hilton’s reputation.
The Answer said | June 13th 2009 @ 11:49pm | Report comment
I think I’ve read this article about 30 times on the site in oen form or another.
Poor old football, it either isn’t covered by the mainstream media or when they do they don’t do it in the right way. CV knocked back again Jesse?
Personally, I think football will only kick on in this country when people get over the fact that SBS don’t have a god given right to be the only ones who comment on football.
Midfielder said | June 14th 2009 @ 12:12am | Report comment
Jimbo
My guess is Obie Wan has heard it, Paris Hilton just another message …. hopefully someone will tell Pim what it all means… give em their interviews … Westy any thoughts on how far the Terror are prepared to take it…
bennalong said | June 14th 2009 @ 2:33am | Report comment
whikeymac,
That’s what Australians have called it, my Dad and his Dad before him. It might be be confusing to you if you’re under 20 or pissed on whiskey, mac, but some say usage is the only criterion for correctness.
That’s the reason for the name Socceroos, dunderhead
I understand that multiculturalism encourages division by telling migrants their old culture should stand alongside the culture of their new country but civility suggests you go along with traditional usage.
I like soccer and appreciate your notion that it is true football, but you don’t have a monopoly on the name and it pisses me off when you appropriate it simply because the game has grown in popularity.
Therefore, by oafish and aggressive sledging of other football codes perhaps soccer afficionados are reducing soccer’s popularity.
Too confusing for you?
Captain Random said | June 14th 2009 @ 1:27pm | Report comment
“i think its pretty well known (except possibly you) that the anglo/celts developed the majority of the footy codes that we play …… in fact i cant think of one that they did not.”
Nice try at insulting me. Maybe next time you’ll hurt my feelings. I’ll ask a different question: Why do you believe the preferences of white people are more important? Just because they developed the codes doesn’t make that so.
And you state that you like volleyball and tennis. Hmmm. No physical contact in those sports. How come those sports aren’t “nancy boy” games?
Koala Bear said | June 14th 2009 @ 6:58pm | Report comment
Captain random…… i think its pretty well known (except possibly you) that the anglo/celts developed the majority of the footy codes that we play …… in fact i cant think of one that they did not.
Captain Random,
I wouldn’t take too much notice of this Beaver bigoted fool … He has no idea what is going on in his little myopic insular town of Perth.. Nor the modern game of Marn Grook he says he loves … I suggest you google it up Beaver…
Beaver are you a fool all the time, or is this a special occasion ..?
Folks,
It Looks like the media are trying to find a leper in the Australian Football National Team… Yes poor Timmy Cahill our favourite son has been accused of drunken disorderly conduct in a Kings Cross night club with the FFA’s Ben Buckley accused of a cover up… Timmy’s supposably disorderly drunken condition and actions has no case to answer…
There were no charges laid by the police.. No complaint from the proprietor.. No female alligations laid down against Timmy… Yet the TV media on the eve of the launch of its 2018 FIFA WC bid saw fit to make this false headline story as news … Jesse is right again .. another disgraceful attempt to try and discredit a favourite Australian Footballing son and Australian Football … It stinks…. The media should hang their heads in shame yet again…
~~~~~~~~
KB
The Bear said | June 14th 2009 @ 7:21pm | Report comment
Yep, maybe beaver was the “anonymous” caller re: the lol ‘incident’ cough cough in Sydney after the FFA gala night. Yeah, fair go… Australian’s love a fair go!! Perhaps the transparent attempt to undermine the momentum if the World Game is reaching depths of depravity. So much for the “fair Go”…
Captain Random said | June 14th 2009 @ 8:36pm | Report comment
KB -
I’m definitely appearing annoyed to you (and probably everyone else), but I’m not. I’m just curious – hence the questioning.
keeper11 said | June 14th 2009 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
surely todays front page of the terrorag is a new low ..if thats possible..
for this decrepit , utterly unethical agenda driven tabloid piece of pathetic garbage that impersonates a daily paper for a modern city…
1. for the hysterical front page beatup and misinforming of an ‘incident’ that initiated NO complaint..from anyone !!
2. for the ..’crapetorial’ opinion piece by a clueless muppet from another sport with zero knowledge or interest in football..
3. for his primary school attempt to twist the old line..’ WE do it better/bigger in OUR great game ..league maaaaaate ‘
4. for the papers infantile attempt to play the old..our footy is better than yours’..
strategicically placed front page caption to advertise ‘footy cards’ with a picture of ‘nice’ smiling footy player with a nice smiling ‘footy’ kid…all to contrast with that shifty, evil sockah scandal……
its beyond a smell…the reek of fear….
tifosi said | June 14th 2009 @ 9:58pm | Report comment
Judging by the responses (and lack thereof) on the news corps affiliated websites most people saw this as a non issue.
Another Fail daily telegraph, You are doing your best to destroy rugby league with non stories, now you want to take football down as well. Losers.
westy said | June 14th 2009 @ 10:12pm | Report comment
Keeper11 I mean this very genuinely without being patronising. . Have confidence do not fall for the old three card trick. Keep the support going.
Do not fall for the fallacy that rugby league wants or desires News Ltd as a 50% owner just as you are not to presume the powerful support most rugby league followers in western sydney have for football. They seek to foment division where it often does not occur .
In my area football has always been the dominant junior sport not since 1990 but pre world war 2. This dominance has only increesed post WW2.
Be careful not to blame the genuine participants in one game for the business decisions of a multi national corporation. Most of the football people I mix with including myself have a comfortable relationship with rugby league with their own NRL team.
I cannot wait to support a Western Sydney A league team and I have attended Socceroos matches since the days of jimmy Rooney and have always had a rugby league team wests Tigers and rugby union team Parramatta.
I have never seen or understood the problem. I think footballis the most skilful but not to appreciate the skill and athleticism in the rugby codes is to miss genuine good sport.
I appreciate living in Sydney . I get to see some great sport. I look forward without fear to a stronger domestic football community.
beaver fever said | June 14th 2009 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
Well it looks like i have the soccer boys/girls all in a tiff, interestingly no one has commented on a whole raft of theorys i have put forward regarding soccer being allegedly held back.
Hell i have been called a bigot, well all i can say to that is …. please explain.
Norm said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:07pm | Report comment
- “interestingly no one has commented on a whole raft of theorys i have put forward”…because your theories, like your spelling a childish.
Spencer said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:21pm | Report comment
I have no opinion on this article or the sport of soccer in general. I find it boring, stilted, and many of the player behaviours are cringe-worthy. However each sport has its own culture and attractions.
I would simply say that I am not comfortable with soccer being called the world game. That would then mean that anyone who doesn’t like or support soccer is not of this world. By definition no sport could ever make such a claim. In fact you will probably find that more people follow cricket (India – if you have never been to India you don’t truly understand sport as a religion) than soccer. Ping Pong as well (China – of which I am something of an expert).
So let’s all agree that from now on no one will call soccer, or any other sport, “the world game”. That type of fanaticism creates conflicts.
Spencer said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
Please address all vitriol to Beaver.
beaver fever said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:33pm | Report comment
Oh Norm you are really quite petty … picking on my speeling… who cares, a lot of my points have plenty of substance for ex :
Is it the migrant connection to soccer.
Is it blocking of facilities by other codes.
Is it because soccer has shown a persistent failure to obtain and hold media coverage, particularly free-to-air commercial television.
Is it because throughout soccer’s history in Australia there have been incidents of financial mismanagement, corruption and the burning of sponsors.
Another factor inhibiting the growth of soccer was the failure to get teachers or police involved in states other than NSW heavily involved in the game.
The greater availability of open space and grass militated against the development of soccer compared with cricket and Australian rules, which were more suitable to societies with more land.
And of course low scoring. boring and crowd violence. ( the old chestnuts… but they do carry weight and are of course relevant)
Wheres your contribution …. i know, slinging crap at me, unfortunately you are not even good at that.
Am i holding soccer back because i think compared to our real footy codes its a bit sissy.
beaver fever said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:38pm | Report comment
I can smell the fear spencer…. its a real stinkfest.
jimbo said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:52pm | Report comment
Midfielder,
I wonder of Ronaldo can still play football as well with a bad case of herpes and STDs?
The Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
A quick survey of some national papers (on line) do not show the latest smell the fear campaign being looked at as newsworthy. I get the feeling that sides are being chosen, and recent very public bi-partisan support of Football in this country has probably attributed to that. Well done to the fair minded MAJORITY of the Australian Public. For me this is a landmark occasion. Those lads (and ladette) still dragging the chain, are the minority now.
Robbos said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Spencer, what you say may have some substance in regards to Cricket & Ping pong.
But the Cricket or Ping Pong world cup does not have the same worldwide presence as the Football world cup, hence the loosely coined phase ‘The World game’.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:24am | Report comment
Ping Pong will always have a special spot in human history, in the long catalogue of human endeavours and progress, as being the world’s first true video game.
ribsrock said | June 15th 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
The crowd size at the Bahrain game has become a focal point. As mentioned in the Fox coverage, does anyone remember the crowd of 15000 who showed up to watch the Rugby League World Cup (Ha) semi-final in the same city. 40000 for a dead rubber all of a sudden looks pretty good.
Michael C said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Spencer -
they have a cunning plan.
Divide a continent into 50 odd ’small nations’ and claim it’s international, and then dismiss India or China as being ‘just one country’.
Chris said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
First time I’ve been to this site. I was actually looking for the website to help support the 2018 WC bid and found this.
So here’s an ‘outsiders’ perspective.
I was born in western Sydney Rugby League heartland. I had uncle’s play for Parramatta & Penrith. I moved to Melbourne when I was 11, and fell into the AFL way of thinking – its a drug thats available everywhere but Sydney & Brisbane.
I now live in Brisbane and have a son. I personally attend every QLD/Brisbane Roar match. I take my son to about half of the games. He play football/soccer on weekends and I have copies of Four Four Two around the house. He has pictures of Lucas Neill & Kaka on his walls.
I don’t know why we enjoy watching SBS on Sunday arvo’s, we just do. I don’t know when we fell in love with football/soccer, we just do. I think for us its knowing that in some villa in Spain or in a dusty paddock in Zambia, there are people kicking a ball the same shape as the one we’re kicking. It makes us feel part of the world.
I appreciate all the comments on here. I really do. It’s a rich tapestry of personal feelings which reflects Australia’s passion for sport in general.
Its not that I don’t like RL or AFL, its that soccer/football is my cup of tea. I don’t begrudge either sport, I don’t trun the TV over when the highlights of AFL & RL are shown. I don’t even care to enter into the football/soccer name arguement – It dosen’t change anything for me. I love it for what it is. The beautiful game.
The Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:01pm | Report comment
India and China each have a domestic football league and are elligible for Asian Champs league, MC. So much for your neutrality.
Michael C said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:11pm | Report comment
The Bear -
ah, gee, don’t tell me it’s fair game to count a small corner of a country?? And then to claim a ‘potential’ audience of about 70% of it’s entire population.
(funny, seems I’ve heard that one used as a put down coming the other way!!)
Neutrality??…..that’s the domain of tax havens…..
The Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:07pm | Report comment
The game is played in China and India, what more do i have to say??? And funnily enough, these tax havens also have their domestic comps and rep teams, gee this game is everywhere.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
Rugby is also well established in China and India. In fact Rugby is the official sport of the PLA (Peoples Liberation Army) which is more powerful organization than you can imagine. And there are a lot of Universities with rugby programs. Currently China is represented in the Asian 5 Nations cup by Hong Kong.
As for soccer, the China team couldn’t even make it out of the group stage of the WC qualifiers. They have only qualified once, and that was because the in 2002 Korea and Japan had automatic qualification, thus China had to beat Nepal and Myanmar.
I was in India last week and I can assure you that soccer in India is like ice hockey in Australia. Cricket is god!
Just to ensure we get a fair representation you can also check Rugby in Sri Lanka; very strong and established well before soccer.
Soccer is popular with the peasants of the world because they dont need facilities and the laws are simplistic. That still doesn’t entitle it to be called “the world game”, or for that matter “the beautiful game”. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I think soccer is ugly. Each to their own!
Robbos said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
Spencer, please it’s dubbed ‘the beautiful game’ by Pele, eyes of the beholder. You do not have to like it. You can call Rugby ‘the game they play in heaven’ & there are many who doesn’t think that way, but to you it does.
I think Chris put it perfectly, ‘I love it for what it is. The beautiful game’. You love your game, what is the issue. It’s the world game because more people in the world play this game, even someone as blinkered & spins it for the AFL knows that.
Robbos said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
OOPs, that was someone as blinkered & spins it for the AFL as Michael C knows it.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
I wonder if we can reach 200 posts by 5:15pm.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
Robbos – did you not read my closing comment “Each to their own”?
In any case my comment was essentially a comparison of Rugby and Soccer in China and India, of which I have knowledge.
I still dispute the ‘World Game” claim. If this claim was made by a company during advertising they would need to prove it. Given there is no agreed upon definition that would be difficult.
In the meantime I shall refer to Rugby as the “Solar Systems Game”.
MVDave said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:59pm | Report comment
“Soccer is popular with the peasants of the world because they dont need facilities and the laws are simplistic.”
Oh pleeeeeze…Spencer come out of your ivory tower and have a look around you. We have now entered the 21st Century and you are still stuck in the 1800s!
Plenty of those peasants in England pay thousands of pounds a year following their football team around. Geez peasants are doing a lot better these days!!
Lazza said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:00pm | Report comment
Rugby’s bigger than Football in China Spencer? The biggest TV ratings for the World Cup and Premier League come from India.
When they spend some money and get a national team they can be proud of you’ll see Football in India take off. Cricket may go the way of the West Indies when that happens.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
There are many things we can dispute – but some things aren’t worth disputing:
1. The AFL draws big crowds; and
2. Soccer is the world game.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:01pm | Report comment
I am doing my bit Pip. Although I am not sure if I am adding any value.
Michael C said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
The Bear -
so corruption and violence…..
Robbos -
yep, I recognise the ‘lack’ that the majority of the worlds population suffer from,…their sporting famine…….ah, think of the children!!!!
MVDave said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:02pm | Report comment
“I still dispute the ‘World Game” claim”
Spencer you’re really on a roll now…just thought you may like to take a peek at some figures to help your understanding of the term “World Game”;
http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/media/newsid=529882.html
Enjoy.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:03pm | Report comment
Lazza
I agree that there’s probably huge untapped potential in India (where field hockey is probably the biggest ball game of all), but let’s not get carried away by predicting the demise of cricket in India!!
Lazza said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:05pm | Report comment
I said MAY go the way of West Indies Pippinu? Remember India is a country starved of sporting success except for Cricket?
Most Indian cricketers are Brahmins, very upper class just like England. In future they may have more options.
beaver fever said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
The world game and the beautiful game are con jobs by SBS…. if you are not part of the world game your culture and country are obviously backwards…. how many times do you hear that nauseus comment.
Al said | January 2nd 2010 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
And you imply all this by the mere phrase the “world game”? What other subliminal messages are the naughty soccer people brainwashing the kids with? Have playing any Black Sabbath albums in reverse also revealed any anti-Aussie Rules/Aussie Culture messages? How about the Wizard of Oz?
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
Without wishing to offend anyone, I’ve also always thought that there’s only one true World Cup.
It’s called The World Cup.
It belongs to the World Game (a name I actually prefer to “football”).
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:06pm | Report comment
Lazza – Your comment on India and Cricket is absurd. You obviously have now knowledge of India.
Soccer is bigger than Rugby in China. Did I say something else? My point about soccer in China is that the standard of play and administration is very low.
MVDave – Yes, I know that there are rich peasants, especially in England.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:09pm | Report comment
Ok Pip – well past the 200 mark now. I have done my work here. Cheers guys, and I hope you find the answer to ‘What is really holding back Soccer in Australia?”
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
I am going to “Leave it to Beaver”.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:12pm | Report comment
Beaver
some people do make the claim – and they are suffering from cultural cringe when they do it.
The truth is that pretty much everyone (in terms of countries) is part of it, that’s precisely why it is the World Game.
As for “the beautiful game” – that wasn’t made up by SBS, that’s a well known moniker that goes back decades (to probably the Brazil team of the 1950s, maybe earlier).
We can all enjoy the likes of Brazil (or the Socceroos for that matter) without forsaking anything – I’m sure we can all agree with that.
In any event – who wouldn’t want to be near a crowd of Brazilians when Brazil is playing – I have just one word for you (actually, I have two words) – hot women!!!!
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
Spencer
excellent contributions – well done!! (I especially like the leave it to beaver one)
beaver fever said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:13pm | Report comment
Thank you Spencer (showing your age)……. i am sure i can handle the soccer boys, they will probably go down like they have been shot no doubt.
Lazza said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
Spencer,
The standard of Football is low in China because the country just opened up 20 years ago, have just started investing in the game and have 200 nations to compete against?
If you had said 25 years ago that the West Indies would never be a force in World Cricket again, then that would of sounded absurd as well. You aren’t even aware of the huge TV ratings for Football in India so who doesn’t know India? When visiting European teams tour there they get 100k crowds? When they start to invest in Football and produce competitive teams then we’ll see. That is starting to happen now from what I read, a new professional competition has just started.
beaver fever said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Ok fair enough pip.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
Here’s a little bit of what we can look forward to if we win 2022 (forget about 2018):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_Germany_2006#People
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 5:18pm | Report comment
I have a personal favourite, under “People” – here’s hoping we see more of the same, and that they are Brazilian women instead (although Japanese women are more than welcome to do the same).
I’ll be at retiirement age by then – so I’ll need to be careful about watching the ol’ heart.
Robbos said | June 15th 2009 @ 6:02pm | Report comment
Pip, never a truer word said, though I did a minor change;
There are many things we can dispute – but some things aren’t worth disputing:
1. The AFL draws big crowds; and
2. Football is the world game.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
Lazza – Actually China’s ‘Reform and Opening Up” program started 31 years ago. However you point is still valid.
The main problems with sports in China (soccer included):
1. All sport is controlled by the Ministry of Sport and they are largely corrupted and siphon off about 30% of all revenue and development money paid by outside governing bodies, such as FIFA and the IRB.
2. The completions locally (especially soccer and basketball) have been beset by gambling and match fixing. CCTV the national broadcaster refused to televise matches due to the corruption and violence.
3. Chinese men are cultural unable to make a personal sacrifice for the good of the team. Interestingly, Chinese woman are very good at team sports.
4. The facilities for sporting development are tightly controlled. It is very expensive to rent a playing field. We pay about $150 for 2 hours. Again this is a money grab from local government officials.
I can’t see China stepping up to soccer’s big table anytime soon, unless someone can unlock the Party’s control mechanisms. Ask the Pope how difficult that is.
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:50pm | Report comment
208 nations and regions are members of FIFA.. The United Nations have some 204 nation members … All the FIFA members are eligible to enter and compete in all FIFA world cups … Yes I think we can safely say it is the world game…
~~~~~~~
KB
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:56pm | Report comment
KB – I fully agree with you soccer “Is A World Game”.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:10pm | Report comment
How about Rugby; is it a world game? There are only 103 nations that are members of the IRB (International Rugby Board), but still significant, and more than half of the UN list.
Rugby was established at the same time as soccer (Association Football if you prefer).
Shall we agree to say that Rugby and Soccer are both World Games?
whiskeymac said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:32pm | Report comment
sure spencer. the are plenty of games that are “world” games – tennis, cricket, water polo, hockey, basketball, ice hockey etc… the only difference is that football tends to dwarf them globally in reach, participation and interest. that’s not to diminish the fact they are played in more than one continent etc or the fact the games arent good or “lesser”. The fact is football rules the roost internationally, i dont think it’s arrogant to say whereas union, cricket etc are world games football is The Worldgame. by virtue of its popularity worldwide. One of the flow ons from this is, and the major point of interest for many every four years, is that “internationals” tend to be more competitive ie there are no certainties in games between the top 20or 30 teams – whereas, would you say is it fair to say in union its really only close between the top 5 or 6 teams? ie Scotland (alas) wont beat the ABs; Fiji wont beat the Boks etc although france will beat the ABs at home, i cant see Gower’s Italia doing the same
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:44pm | Report comment
Spencer,
“The” opposed to “A” is what I was trying to get accross…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:04pm | Report comment
Sorry.. correcting a typo “across”
Come to think of it; you really can’t claim a world game status, unles you surpass or at least match the United Nations membership.. hmm…
~~~~~~~~
KB
Slippery Jim said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:05pm | Report comment
“It belongs to the World Game (a name I actually prefer to “football””
Pippu, what happened to the Spanish ‘futbol’ as the preferred rendering (reading True Tah’s comments made me remember it was fashionable late last year for about three weeks on this site)?
Of course, we all know I prefer to ‘futebol’ to ‘futbol’, and ‘football’ to either.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:12pm | Report comment
KB – are you surprised Rugby has such a strong foothold. I think you are, you fury smelly little creature.
In any case it is obvious that soccer and rugby can both claim to be world games. BTW soccer doesnt have all countries as members so therefore we could continue to argue that it isnt a world game either.
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:14pm | Report comment
“Of course, we all know I prefer to ‘futebol’ to ‘futbol’, and ‘football’ to either.”
Slippery Jim,
Chelsea were playing all three at once last season… and did a damn good job at it…
~~~~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:25pm | Report comment
Spencer dear old chap,
now you are getting personal … The countries outside the UN are not worth considering as movers and shakers unless you are referring to Great Britain .. are you… ?
~~~~~~~
KB
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:36pm | Report comment
KB – not getting personal, unless you really are a Koala, in which case my slight stands.
Agree on your point about countries outside the UN, and a few inside the UN that are not worth considering. Good chuckle about Great Britain, is it really a country or the remnants of the realm? In any case there is no such team as a Great Britain Rugby team either.
I fully acknowledge that soccer has a greater coverage and participation. However Rugby is no slouch, and would by far be the second most wide spread football code.
Each to their own!
westy said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
Spencer we can both play for the Italian rugby team I am a Marconi club member and i am sure i can get you in.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:05pm | Report comment
Westy – I will take the gig!
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 7:17am | Report comment
Spencer, I think Hockey & basketball would have Rugby covered as the most spread team sport after football.
It’s the depth of the sport that makes Football different to Rugby. Football is the no 1 team sport in over 100 different countries while Rugby is No 1 in 1 (New Zealand).
Since 1990 (when England made the semi finals & missed the next world cup) at least 1 semi finalist missed the following world cup & looks like repeating this year as Portugal, semi finalist in Germany 06 looks to be struggling for next year’s WC finals.
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Alan Jones certainly isn’t holding anything back….
listen to this!
….follow the link and scroll (and click) to the conversation with Daily Terrorgraph editor…
The Bear said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
http://www.2gb.com/index.php?option=com_moremultimedia
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Robbos
rugby would be no 1 in Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Wales and Madagascar as well.
As for FIFA having more members than the UN that is true, but then again FIFA includes the following countries in its member register: Guam, Macau, Aruba, British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Montserrat, Netherlands Antilles, Turks & Caicos Islands, US Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Cook Islands, New Caledonia, Tahiti.
Obviously there is differant requirement to be a member of the UN (i.e. these need to be sovereign nations) than there is to be a member of FIFA (or the IRB for that matter). Interestingly the Channel Islands are not represented by either organisation, but I understand they have some membership of the ICC.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
robbos – no ronaldo at the WC? who will win the golden pout award next year then?
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
aren’t the channel islands part of the UK..like the isle of man and shetlands? and in the olympics isn’t their going to be a GB football team? not that this goes one way or the other in this thread. just a thought… and am not sure Rugby is the no 1 in wales. certainly in the valley, but in the towns i think football is more popular?
pothale said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:35am | Report comment
No, they’re not. They have their own governments – Jersey and Guernsey I think – and are dependents of the British Crown, but not part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
There is going to a Great Britain football team in the Olympics – but to confuse matters – will I think include N Ireland players if selected.
And yes, Rugby is probably no 1 in Wales in most parts. Similarly, Gaelic football/hurling is No 1 in Ireland, and soccer is no 2, being hotly pursued by rugby.
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:40am | Report comment
whiskeymc
in Wales both sports are popular. However look at some of the objective facts. The Welsh Rugby Union owns the Milennium Stadium, what does the WFA own? Cardiff City own Ninian Park, and generally the two futbol pro teams in Wales (Cardiff and Swansea) would draw more than the four pro rugby sides (Cardiff, Ospreys, Dragons, Scarlets).
Also some of the qualifiers for the World Cup have been poor to say the least (based on the FIFA website).
1 April 2009, Wales v Germany 26,064
28 March 2009, Wales v Finland 22,604
6 September 2009 Wales v Azerbaijan 17,106
Comparing this to the Six Nations and last years end of season tours by Australia, South Africa, NZ and Canada. Every one of those games was sold out, except for Canada, which drew 60K.
All I can say is Australia would draw close to a full house if we had to play Germany in a world cup qualifier.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:14am | Report comment
It is pretty amazing that Wales would only draw 26,000 playing Germany in a WC qualifier – Germany being one of the top three all time NTs.
Even more amazing is that a crappy little surburban school yard game between two crappy inner-city teams played at the arse end of the world can draw four times that number to a run-of-the-mill home and away game.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:15am | Report comment
Pothale….but Bergerac was a BBC show(not to mention Matt Le Tissier playing for England)! Fair enough. Although ultimatley i am not sure as to what weight could really be attached to Jersey and Guernsey governmental stauts in supporting any debate as to a sports international status, thanks for setting me straight.
True Tah – I have no problem believing union’s popularity in Wales (and having watched Wales v ABs in 2003 am glad of the passion they bring). I wasnt asserting it as a fact and am more than mindful of the history and success of the game there. my only aside however would be that the gauge is not so much what the respective admin bodies have as oppossed to what the people on the streets watch. If Cardiff was promoted to the EPL i am sure the crowds would be equally impressive mind you. My “thought” on the matter was purely based upon having spoken to a few cardiff residents. i realise this is hardly convincing empirical data on the subject=) 9hence my “?”). mind you their response suprised me – ie that they preferred football and rugby was for the ‘valleys’ – having always thought bread of heaven and JPR Williams was ingrained on every welshmans heart. this was the early 90s mind you, and Wales were rubbish (by their own past standards) and there wasnt Hieneken cup etc
I wld imagine the fact Wales is currently good at Union, after years of …well…not being very good…. helps. Success and beating England etc will fan the patriotism, swell the coffers, maintain the interest (as in any sport).
N Ireland in the GB team? so is it a United Kingdom team? eh. bit late now though… George Best is no longer available.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
“that a crappy little surburban school yard game between two crappy inner-city teams played at the arse end of the world”
Pip, you may have missed your calling in the diplomatic service but “the roar” is all the richer for it.
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
whiskeymc
its a bit of a shame that neither George Best or Ryan Giggs ever got to play at a world cup.
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
Pip
its a bit strange I agree. In countries where futbol is not the sole dominant code (i..e. Australia, US, Ireland), the local comp is overshadowed by another sport, but the internationals are far bigger and get far more interest than the local comp.
This is clearly not the case in Wales, where the local sides outdraw the national side!!
pothale said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
No George Best but they’ve one or two other handy players. But I think the England contingent will see them off unless there’s some kind of positive discrimination to ensure a representation from all parts. I could be wrong on the NI bit, but thought I read that somewhere and was confused by the team title. I’m never quite sure what the term GB means in sporting terms. And I don’t think there is a UK team in any sport. It’s amazing really that one country manages to field 4 teams in an international competition, and everyone just accepts it as tradition.
Norm said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
- “Pip, you may have missed your calling in the diplomatic service but “the roar” is all the richer for it.”…whiskeymac I beg to disagree.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:49am | Report comment
pothale the UK, GB. British Isles… a strange set up granted, but the nations that make up the union are culturally, traditionally and in all other respects distinct. I for one would much rather see Wales, Scotland etc as opposed to an all england GB team. Imagine english whiskey? no thanks.
It does seem that the sports administrators in the UK have their cake and eat it. Could it be that because the first internationals were against the home countries that they remain?
Am a bit hazy on all the facts but the “Union” is only about 200-300 years old? Granted countries like Germany and Italy and Belgium are younger – 1871 and 1815 respectively i think? i aint going to google to confirm – and Bavaria and Prussia, Piedmont and Naples are also arguably just as disctinct. Maybe as the UK devolves, and the EU evolves we will see the 19th and 20th century ‘nations” devolve back to regional soveriegnty and identity again. I very much dout it (and esecially in our lifetimes mind you) but imagine a EU team (in any sport).
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
norm, now thats not very nice. it sounds like you missed your calling in the lower house opposition backbenches =)
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
True Tah, what do you mean ’sole dominant code’?
Norm said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
fair enough whiskeymac. Perhaps I should ask pippy boy whic afl game drew 104K, how often does it happen & in which other city around the world does it happen? Misrepresentation is his specialty.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Channel Isles. Strange place. Let me say that one island, the Isle of Sark could be the champion of the world in what is called in Yorkshire t’arm game.or arm wrestling. Mate of mine from Sheffield in the sixties worked on Sark & said it was like stepping back in time. Which is a massive statement from a Sheffielder in those days. Sark was run feudally by the dame of Sark at the time. Feudal rule was only abolished in 2006,the last feudal state in Europe. HIs first night in the local pub(maybe the only one) he was challenged by the local t’arm game champion. He was a robust lad had worked as a hod carrier in Sheffield. I remember he said he didn;t know whether he lost because the bloke was stronger than him or he was scared of beating him because he wasnt sure of the consequences if he won. A bit of stretching or quatering maybe.
Whether Rugby is stronger than Football in Wales is a matter of debate. I always considered Rugby in the British Isles as being connected with Wales rather than England Ireland or Scotland Having said that from a football perspective it has also produced some great players long before Australia was producing players good enough to play in what was then the old first division. John Charles & the Allchurch brothers Ivor & Len spring to mind. Lets not forget Ryan Giggs,Ian Rush ,Mickey Thomas in later years.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
I wrote: “Even more amazing is that a crappy little surburban school yard game between two crappy inner-city teams played at the arse end of the world can draw four times that number to a run-of-the-mill home and away game. ”
Norm says I have misrepresented things.
Anyone care to answer the followoing multiple choice question:
Q: My misrepresentation was:
a. referring to a crappy little surburban school yard game
b. referring to two crappy inner city teams
c. referring to the arse end of the world
d. all of the above.
pothale said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
True Tah
“In countries where futbol is not the sole dominant code (i..e. Australia, US, Ireland), the local comp is overshadowed by another sport, but the internationals are far bigger and get far more interest than the local comp.”
Not quite sure what you mean. In Ireland, GAA sports would be far more dominant than soccer and would draw bigger attendances overall amongst local teams. Big GAA matches would fill Croke Park easily and matches between say Dublin and Meath would often get a bigger attendance than say Ireland v Poland in a European qualifier.
Spencer said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Robbos – Rugby is number 1 in 2 countries. I will leave you to work out the 2nd one.
Norm said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
d.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:25am | Report comment
Whiskeymac
Spot on about the nations that make up the Union being culturally & traditionally distinct. Its been going(UK)since the early 1700’s but no sign yet that there will ever be a “United” Kingdom as per the “United” States.
I remember the old home Internationals ,fiercely contested ,particularly by England & Scotland, Sort of a substitute for the Battle of Culloden:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Culloden
I think they stopped it because the demands on modern footballers was becoming too much as it went on if I remember round about June time.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Pothale
I would have take TT’s remarks to mean precisely what you are trying to say (referring to Ireland), he probably didn’t say it straight out as forcibly as you because he didn’t want to get into a flame war with anyone who would want to suggest something different to your kind self.
(there are some who do not countenance the possibility of soccer playind second fiddle to anyone anywhere)
Norm said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
-”(there are some who do not countenance the possibility of soccer playind second fiddle to anyone anywhere)”…I know exactly what you mean pippy boy they’re just like those who cannot countenance the possibility of afl not being Australia’s national game.
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Fiji or Tonga Spencer. Although True Tah has a point as well, about Wales, I i live there for 3 months, they are pretty passionate about their Rugby.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 10:50am | Report comment
i thought maybe western samoa?
In the Uk it’s interesting that in Wales, and i maybe am wrong here and apologise if i am, rugby union is not a distinctly middle class game whereas in England, Scotland and Ireland is it fair to say it is?
In England, League is the woking class game (after football) but predominatly northern (and mostly but not solely lancs-yorkshire) in interest?
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:05am | Report comment
Pippinu
Interesting point about Ireland & football historically ie from my own observations & experiences growing up in England similar to my statement about Wales above. To be honest I remember very little about their sports scene. I certainly remember Danny Blanchflower for Spurs,great player,but he was from Northern Ireland. Cannot unlike Wales remember of the top of my head any outstanding players in the English professional divisions. Didnt see their “local” sports either like Gaelic Football & hurling. But this could have been a result of residue animosity from the “black & tan”days & of course previous English, Irish less than friendly interaction. Contrast that with today with the Ireland football team doing well in the last 20 years or so.
ie did not qualify for a World Cup from 1930 to 1986 then 4 times(should qualify this time) out of 6 to 2010. Looking at their squad all players are either in the EPL or championship 7 one at Celtic. See below for stats:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team
So what it does show to me is that their is no stopping the global spread of football & its improvement in countries that have previously been weak. But it is not at the expense of local sports,just a reflection of the nature of football & its International image.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:23am | Report comment
Whiskeymac
Cannot speak for Ireland,but in Scotland England Rugby Union is distinctly middle/upper class. Cannot think of an area in England(unlike Wales) where the Working class favour Rugby. Rugby League is predominantly working class in the North mainly Yorks -Lancs -Cumbria. Interestingly RL towns are dotted in between & next to football towns,with some traditionally supporting both. Ie RL-St Helens Warrington Widnes sandwiched between FB Liverpool & Manchester. RL-Wakefield Dewsbury near FB-Huddersfield Barnsley & a bit further down(20 kms from Barnsley)Sheffield. Leeds Hull Bradford have both RL & Football.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Towser – and Wigan. arguably a bigger league team than, and despite of, their recent EPL brothers success (same owner i think at JJB?).
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Towser
Ireland has done exceedingly well the last 20 years or so (given the complexity of their sporting circumstances, and what is a fairly small population).
Was it the opening game of the 1994 WC when Ireland defeated Italy 1-0?
I think it was Houghton who was pretty much inside the D, spun around and hit the ball on the half-volley, it pretty much went directly over (or through) the Pagliuca’s hands.
Incredibly, Italy made the final that year, despite going through a few trials and tribulations (at least one, maybe two games, resulted in them being reduced to 10 men when they were absolutely desperate for points or were in a knock out final).
In one of those games, it was the divine pony-tail himself that was taken off when the Italian keeper was red carded – but he came back to have an outstanding tournament.
In the end, Italy need not have bothered making it all the way to the final – it must have been just about the worst final we have ever had the displeasure of seeing.
How a self-respecting Brazilian can accept a WC trophy won on the strength of a pen shoot out is beyond me – they should hand it back in the interests of being contrary to their set of principles and national character.
Brazil wins by scoring goals!!
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
USA 94 was OK up until the semis. the final was a dog of a game – but Romania (hagi), Bulgaria (stoichkov) etc were entertaining. Does Ireland did well in football by having close links to england (bear with me) in that a few of their players were able to represent because of grandparents? Although the population is small, the ‘representative’ population is noticeably larger (half of merseyside have some oirish in ‘em).
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:44am | Report comment
“does ireland did” – even for my low standards that’s poor. i apologise half heartedly for the appalling english.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Correct Whiskeymac. Never consider Wigan because its only recently(unlike the other 3) that Football has been noteworthy there. In fact it is hard to get my mind around Wigan having an EPL team. When I lived there I always considered it THE heart of RL in England.
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:47am | Report comment
Towser
Im not sure if you regard it as working class, but rugby is pretty big in Cornwall, which is probably amongst the poorer regions of England, which is why they dont have a team in the Guiness Premiership. It might be a moot point, but Ive played rugby with English blokes in Australia who would be what you would classify as a working class background.
In Scotland, outside the borders region, rugby was certainly a middle class game, but even there the game is dying.
Sectarian issues played a pretty big role in Irish sport for sometime, and rugby coped a fair bit of stick from the GAA for being a very “British” sport, and was largely restricted to middle class (outside Munster), but I sense this is changing with professionalism, surely the fact over 80K attended a provincial game would attest to the recent growth of Irish rugby outside the middle class (admittedly Ireland does come across as a middle class country).
Im not sure how big futbol is in Ireland, I know it has a lot of players, but the League of Ireland gets pathetic crowds, and I would suspect many Irish look to the likes of Liverpool to get their futbol fix. As Pip referred to, in 1994 they were pretty good at the WC, and I can remember the comment was made by the FAI that GAA was stuffed afterwards. Since then the GAA has gone from strength to strength.
Does Irish futbol have a home ground, i.e. like say Lansdowne Road for rugby, Croke Park for the GAA, or does it rely on the other two organisations for big matches?
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Pippinu isnt it always “incredibly Italy made the final” although I seem to remember Italy being vaguely exciting & interesting in 1982.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:49am | Report comment
Whiskey
that’s a good point – you can take the potato farmer out of Ireland, but you can’t take the starch out of the boy.
I thought I would test my memory of the Houghton goal, here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K11gPYxS7k
He was actually just outside the D, rather than inside it, but my memory of it was pretty spot on otherwise. Pagliuca is way, way off his line – what the hell he was doing there is anyone’s guess.
True Tah said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Robbos
what I meant by sole dominant code was the instance in say England or Brazil, where futbol takes up at least 80% of the professional sporting market.
I was trying to draw a distinction between Ireland/Australia/USA and Wales. In the former countries, the local futbol comp possesses nowhere near the sporting dominance it has in England/Brazil, and play second fiddle to GAA/AFL/NFL, however for these nations, they can still draw excellent crowds for world cup qualifiers.
In Wales, you have the likes of Cardiff and Swansea competing in the Coca-Cola Championship and getting 20-25K per game, and when the national side plays, the crowds are not much bigger, and you have to say, Germany is a pretty big drawcard in international futbol.
Joe FC said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Also Towser Italy’s semi final win over West Germany in 1970 is regarded as one of the greatest WC games of all time.
Pippinu said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Towser
heh, heh – there’s a fair bit of truth in that!
You could certainly say it about the 1970 final (I can only go by films I’ve seen and reports I’ve read – that semi final against West Germany sounds pretty amazing by any standard).
In 1982, to be honest, “vaguely exciting and interesting” is probably overstating it!!
They absolutely stumbled through their group, and I do mean stumbled, managing 3 draws against 3 pretty ordinary opponents, and only got past Cameroon because they scored one more goal (and in the process Cameroon became the first ever team to drop out without losting a game, England would join them in that stat about a week later).
Italy was saved from looking totally uninteresting by the following (and I’m sure you will remember all of this very well):
1. coming up against a red-hot Brazil and inching past them in what was one of the all time great games
2. Paulo Rossi fluking a hatrick in the same game (loved the number 20 to death, but he certainly had his limitations as a player)
3. Marco Tardelli scoring a wonderful goal that included about 10 passes around the German D, and then seeing him running round the field with his blood vessels almost bursting in his excitement – perhaps THE memory for all Azzurri fans.
I’m not sure if it’s fair to say it about 2006. They nearly stumbled against a 9 man US team (who probably deserved to win the game), and literally fell in against Australia (pun intended!!), and were uninspiring in the final itself – but they were pretty good for the other four games!!! (their for and against record shows a team that was pretty much in control – true, not exciting, but certainly worthy of winning the comp)
Millster said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
The more I read the more I smile.
Do any other bloggers here work in a profession that involves hotly-disputed political, public-relations, or diplomatic aspects?
If so you would be well aware that the amount of vitriolic huffing and puffing rises exponentially as one approaches a major change-point in society. The more hysterical the defence of something gets, the more likely it is close to being broken.
So bring it on.
Working Class Rugger said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
True Tah
Don’t know where the Irish Soccer teams plays now but they shared Landsdowne road with Rugby and probably will when it comes back online next year I think. Rugby has moved from the middle class to the greater Irish population. This can be best demonstrated in Munster and Connacht, both regions are hardly the hotbeds of the Irish economy.
Most Irish Soccer fans have little interset in their local league. My cousin was a very promising Footballer over there. Was approached by Celtic and Liverpool aswell as many of the local Irish teams. He didn’t even bother with the locals.
Scottish rugby has seen growth over the previous 3 years.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
True Tah
All the Irish Football matches I’ve seen(including Australia) have been at Lansdowne Road. Irish football being so close to England has found its level,somewhat similar to the lower English leagues. Ie the better players are seen in the EPL,Championship. I remember seeing a film not long ago(cant remember the name see a lot of films ) about Ireland. There was a scene around1915 where a group of Irish lads were playing Gaelic football. The Black & Tans caught them called it a ‘Heathen” game or similar & proceeded to beat the crap out of them. So my personal take on the incident was that its no wonder the Irish had a backs to the wall attitude to their domestic sports & a less than friendly attitude to Rugby/Football it was associated with English oppression.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:14pm | Report comment
Joe Fc
Bit of reminiscing today. How could I forget it. Watched the whole World cup on film at a cinema in Bondi Junction,including that semi-final. In those days there was no TV coverage & the queue snaked down the street. Apparently that went on for the week it was screening.
jimbo said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Thanks for the link The Bear,
Great interview by Alan Jones and thankfully there are public figures who will defend truth and integrity in the media.
About time those Liars at News Limited got some of their own back.
Look forward to the libel case that will be raised soon against News Limited and its employees.
I’m sure Tim can afford the best lawyers in town to make those rugby league editors have their day squirming in court.
Captain Random said | June 16th 2009 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
Pip -
About the only good thing that can be said about the ‘94 WC Final is that it inspired one of the all-time great football quotes from Uruguayan writer Eduardo Galeano:
“If it wasn’t for the penalty shootout, the nets would have remained untouched for all eternity.”
Robbos said | June 16th 2009 @ 6:56pm | Report comment
Thanks True Tah, just wasn’t sure what your sole dominant code comment was.
My only comment on Wales is they would be regarded as one of the weak European teams & though they do produce good players, ie Ryan Giggs, they struggle to get teams into major int’l competitions, due to Europe having the strongest depth of teams. Where Australia, USA & Ireland, where the local competition is not the strongest sport in those countries, they have int’l teams that has got into major int’l competitions.
Plus the local competitions that Cardiff & Swansea are in aren’t Welsh, but English.
pothale said | June 16th 2009 @ 7:05pm | Report comment
The FAI in Ireland did a deal with the IRFU to use Lansdowne Road for their internationals. Lansdowne was owned by IRFU entirely. And other stadia weren’t big enough to hold crowds after Ireland broke through into the WC finals for the first time in Italia ‘90.
There were various proposals to build a new stadium in the West of Dublin for the FAI, but it all came to nought after political shenanigans and fighting over funding. Eventually the IRFU and FAI agreed to jointly re-develop Lansdowne Road and got the Government to cough up a contribution. The IRFU put together a package for seating and sold out their stadium seats for their matches on a 10 year deal – they did this over a few months.
The FAI are still trying to sell their seats – two years later – and Lansdowne is nearly complete. Soccer is having a much harder time, and plays third fiddle when it comes to attracting crowds and big corporate money.
Rugby is and remains largely a middle-class sport – certainly from a money point of view. The success of the Irish team and of the provinces in the Heineken Cup has grown a substantial fan base – particularly amongst women – that didn’t exist previously, and has drawn supporters from every demographic.
Rugby was – in my youth – certainly seen as the English game, and would not be countenenanced in many religious and state-run schools. But that has changed in the last two decades, and the game is now a lot more catholic in its appeal. (I don’t mean the religion.)
True Tah – you said: “the internationals (soccer) are far bigger and get far more interest than the local comp.” in referring to US, AUs and Ireland. the point I was attempting to make is that is not true in Ireland.
Soccer definitely plays second football. A simple pointer to this is that ‘football’ means Gaelic football in Ireland. Soccer is that other sport where they fall over the ball all the time, and none of the players seem capable of picking it up and passing it.
pothale said | June 16th 2009 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
Eh did I say something untoward in my last post – it’s marked ‘awaiting moderation’ – so am not sure if it has appeared on line.
jimbo said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:24pm | Report comment
pothale,
you were coathangered for calling the game “soccer”.
How dare you?
pothale said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:18am | Report comment
Oops – sorry about that, m’lud.
Pippinu said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Pothale
it’s always refreshing to read your posts!
To read the Irish situation, is almost like looking in a mirror for most Australians.
Just substitute hurling for rugby league and we’re there (and no disrespect intended to either, it’s more a reference to four big games found in each country – a very rare thing in this increasingly homogenous world we live in).
Also, I woudn’t dare wish to offend a hurling player, especially when the caman resembles a meat cleaver, and is often brandished like one.
Lazza said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Pothale,
Why do thousands of Irish take the ferry every week to watch Man Utd and Liverpool? Perhaps it’s just the local, amateur variety of Football they don’t care about.
The national team always seems to play in front of huge crowds?
Michael C said | June 17th 2009 @ 12:59pm | Report comment
Jimbo -
gee, how dare he………
…although, this article has ’soccer’ quite explicitly in it’s title, and for Pothale to regail us on ‘football’ in Ireland, it was most approrpriate to use the local phrasing and terms.
Pothale -
how about Croke Park, hasn’t the GAA started permitted international soccer matches there? Is there any sense that Croke Park becoming more available might diminish the Lansdowne Rd value proposition – - at least for the time being???
btw -
one of the all time best weeks in Melbourne was in 2003,
From Friday to Tuesday we have the Int Rules Aust vs Ireland, the RUWC Aust vs Ireland and then the Melb Cup on Tuesday with a pretty good Irish flavour………..3 separate sporting events and a ripping time in town – no raining on parades, it all fed of each other so that the total was greater than the sum of the parts – - – - for me, I look at that and wonder what could be inserted around a FIFA world cup in a similar manner…….but, that’s for a different thread running at present.
Captain Random said | June 17th 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
Michael C -
jimbo wasn’t being serious. At least, he SHOULDN”T have been serious.
Jesse Fink said | June 17th 2009 @ 6:03pm | Report comment
Apropos of this topic, check out http://www.sbs.com.au/sport/blog/single/110086/News-Limited’s-treatment-of-football-is-bottom-of-the-barrel-stuff
Jesse Fink said | June 17th 2009 @ 6:04pm | Report comment
Try again. For some reason the hyperlinking breaks. Anyway type in this address http://www.sbs.com.au/sport/blog/single/110086/News-Limited’s-treatment-of-football-is-bottom-of-the-barrel-stuff and you’ll find it. Cheers.
Jesse Fink said | June 17th 2009 @ 6:13pm | Report comment
Oh, and a big cheers to Jimbo, too. Sorry for the omission, mate. There will be others. If I’ve forgotten you, post here and harangue me. Speaking of haranguing, I must say Slippery Jim’s been quiet of late, other than popping up on my TWG blog under various “Limpet” guises. Anyway, thanks to you all for the comments on here.
Dave said | June 17th 2009 @ 7:04pm | Report comment
I can’t believe people are complaining about the treatment to Tim Cahill. Andrew Symonds got criticized for raising his voice in a pub.
In 2007 the daily telegraph had an issue with Cricket Australia tying to make them pay for photos. The daily telegraph said it was going to ignore cricket all summer. India came to Australia and cricket had its biggest summer ever and the telegraph couldn’t do anything about it. I didn’t see some SBS blogger complaining about any of that. Other sports get the same treatment but worse.
Maybe you could tell a Cronulla supporter about your complaints. This sort of whinging is what turns people off soccer.
Captain Random said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:08pm | Report comment
Dave -
I would have thought the whinging of a section of the fans was way down the list of things people don’t like about soccer, behind low-scoring, play-acting, lack of physical contact, etc.
Midfielder said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
One thing no other code could do is get this headline and news report http://www.sakigake.jp/p/news/main.jsp?nid=2009061701000564
pothale said | June 18th 2009 @ 12:01am | Report comment
Pippiniu
To be honest – hurling is quite a specialist sport and is played best in the south and south-east parts of the country. Football is more widespread and is played throughout the island of Ireland – including Northern Ireland -the counties of Derry, Antrim and Fermanagh would have good successes in recent years.
Croke Park is on loan to both rugby and soccer only until Lansdowne is complete – after that it reverts back to GAA use – that’s what agreed by the GAA central council who jealously guard their game.
Some people have argued that big internationals (rugby/soccer) or big provincials (Leinster v Munster) should be held there but that won’t happen since the sponsors for the new Lansdowne Road are hardly going to pay out for naming rights (the Aviva Stadium – ugh) and then see the big games go elsewhere.
Croke Park got largely built by its supporters on the ground – with a small amount of govt funding. The GAA is one of the most successful community-based organisations in the world – their capacity to infiltrate every aspect of every community, and to raise support and millions of funds for an amateur game amongst 4 million people is astonishing. It is one of the best stadia in Europe, and no doubt will host other kind of events in years to come.
So hosting Heineken Cup finals will certainly be on the cards, as will Champions League, Europa Cup finals. It could be used as part of consortium for staging a RWC though I doubt it.
Lazza – you asked why do thousands take the ferry every week to watch Manchester and Liverpool. Because there’s a long tradition of Irish players and presence in both those teams over the last 4 or 5 decades.
There is fervent support of local teams like Shelbourne, Shamrock Rovers, etc, but the gate numbers are in 2-3,000 range.
Irish domestic football doesn’t have the money, the infrastructure, the talent (cos it goes overseas), nor the ability to develop itself further with such a big market sitting on its doorstep. There was a proposal at one stage to have Wimbledon relocate to Dublin and become the Dublin Dons – but that petered out.
International games to get big crowds – particularly against some of the bigger names. But it is linked to how well the Irish team is doing. Trappatoni has worked wonders with a team of youngsters and some journeymen from the second and third divisions of English league along with some Premiership players like Robbie Keane of Spurs and Shay Given of Manchester City. They might even qualify for the next World Cup which will be astonishing given the dearth of talent he had available.
Cpaaa said | June 18th 2009 @ 6:12pm | Report comment
Congrats on the tonne fink.
thanks for the link. I fink Alan Jones spoke on behalf of everyone in that interview. Really worth a listen to anyone that hasnt heard it yet. Congrats again and Thanks to Alan Jones….quality.
Dave said | June 21st 2009 @ 3:33pm | Report comment
yeah Cpaa I dont know if Alan Jone spoke on behalf of everyone
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25661918-5003460,00.html
http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/heres-a-serve–with-source/2009/06/19/1244918191683.html
Dave said | June 21st 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Last 3 league State of Origin attendances in Sydney;
76,924
67,620
78,751
last 3 socceroos attendances in sydney
:
v china 70,054
v Uzbekistan 57,292
v bahrain 39,540 WC
MVDave said | June 21st 2009 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
Dave
They cant even fill the stadium for SOO.
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:36pm | Report comment
Msdave
Yes they can
http://www.nswrl.com.au/news/article.php?id=690
The Auteur said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
Dave, you realise two of those WCQ were dead rubbers.
Robbos said | June 22nd 2009 @ 5:50pm | Report comment
Yes 300.
2 of those matches were dead rubbers for Football in a Rugby League city where football is a fair way behind
For Rugby League, SOO is the biggest match in the Rugby League calender & in the heartland of Rugby league.
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
you’d need to tell keeper11 ………..he’s the one who brought these figures up
Dave said | June 22nd 2009 @ 6:30pm | Report comment
Robbos
Some would say the grand final is the biggest match in the Rugby League calendar but again it was keeper11 who brought it up.
last three Grand finals
80,388
81,392
79,609
Lewie said | June 23rd 2009 @ 11:55pm | Report comment
The Auteur, and Robbos
it is what it is. What relevance that they were dead rubbers does it have? That’s your game, the nature of the beast.
the title of this blog is “What’s really holding “soccer” back?”.
well, what is it? What excuses do you have left? Why are those games not selling out?
The grand final is League’s pinnacle event each year, not test matches, not Origin. Last year’s game was contested by Melbourne, a most under-supported team in NRL terms compared to all others, and Manly whose main claim in regards to support is everyone has two sides they follow…..their own and whoever is playing Manly.
I know…..it all means nothing, because it is what it is…..it’s the nature of Rugby League that only two of their 16 supported teams can make the grand final. Just as it is the nature of soccer, that their showcase event may be hindered by it being a “dead rubber”. You should not be throwing it up as an excuse and saying “oh yeah, but if it was like Aus v Uruguay in 2005 it would have sold out”. Yeah, and if two teams full of origin stars played League against each other 24 games a season at ANZ Stadium, perhaps League’s average crowds would match the AFL’s.
Sharminator said | June 30th 2009 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
What´s really holding soccer back ….
Ummmm … there´s no contact … and the other 3 most popular winter sports in Australia are full contact.
Aussie men are real men .. we like tackling each other in the backyard after a few brewskies …
I cant stand watching soccer as there is no violence … a guy gets a little clip on the heals and he falls
over as if Jeff Fenech punched him in the head.
Its exactly the same in the US, Canada, Georgia, and Mongolia … countries with proud contact sport histories … it dosnt matter what soccer does … the majority of men will never revert to a girly non contact game whne they grow up belting each other.
Dream on soccer pansies.
Al said | January 2nd 2010 @ 4:17pm | Report comment
Sounds like “real men” like to grapple, touch and feel each other, poke their fingers up each others anuses (Hopoate), bite on each other’s testicles (Peter Filandia) and stick each other’s heads up each other’s bums (rugby union scrums), albeit in the guise of “contact sports”. AFL has even taken it a step further by getting its practioners to wear short shorts and tight singlets, as not only do they dry hump each other moreso than any other sport, they also look the part, specifically when wanting a “holding the ball” freekick, the tackler/mounter raises his arm to the umpires whilst the mountee with his legs parted endures the full brunt of the mounters anatomy, a scene that looks more in place in a village people’s music video than at a professional sporting event.
Sounds like Sharminator is questioning not only his sexuality but the sexuality of “real mean” everywhere.
PS: I am a supporter of rugby union and association football, league is tolerable, am a huge boxing fan too (a really brutal and scientific sport) but AFL (aside from it’s absolute lack of strategy or proper tackling for a supposed tough sport) is horrid and really does look like the closest thing to mass homo-erotica on grass (not that there is anything wrong with that, unless you’re a “real man” of course).
MVDave said | June 30th 2009 @ 3:14pm | Report comment
Sharminator
Prefer contact with other men eh? Perhaps dropped the soap in the shower too often?