By Adrian Musolino
June 14th 2009 @ 6:30am
Related coverage
We need to support the Kiwis
Goalkeeper Richard Gillespie, in green, of New Zealand's Waitakere United tries to save a goal scored by Daniel Mullen, unseen, of Australia's Adelaide United FC during their opening match at the FIFA Club World Cup soccer tournament in Tokyo Thursday, Dec. 11, 2008. Adelaide United FC won the match, 2-1. AP Photo/Shuji Kajiyama
Although it goes against our countries sporting ethos, we should all be cheering for the All Whites as they prepare for battle in the Confederations Cup starting tonight. After all, they are taking over the mantle we once held as the underdogs from Oceania. They are also flying the A-League flag on the world stage.
While some dismiss the Confederations Cup as FIFA and Sepp Blatter tokenism, it is an important tournament for countries such as New Zealand, Iraq and Egypt, especially the All Whites.
With few truly competitive matches in what is, let’s face it, the backwater of Oceania, the All Whites need such tournaments to strengthen their squad, vital preparation for their upcoming World Cup qualifier against the best of the rest from Asia, either Bahrain, Saudi Arabia or Iran, later this year.
It is a story familiar to Australian fans.
With the Socceroos successfully assimilated into Asia, it is easy to forget about our former home in Oceania.
Now left alone in Oceania, New Zealand finds itself in a difficult quagmire.
While some Kiwi officials wish to see the All Whites follow Australia’s path into Asia, there are some obvious benefits of being the big fish in a small pond in Oceania with qualification for tournaments such as the Confederations Cup and the Club World Cup all but assured.
In addition, once they have overcome their Oceania opponents, they are only ever two games away from a World Cup.
But as we know all too well, a national side can only hope to develop with regular and competitive fixtures, the most obvious benefit of assimilation into Asia.
The Confederations Cup is an all too infrequent opportunity for the All Whites to come together against challenging opposition.
Politically, without Australia, there is not the weight to force FIFA into coming up with some solution to Oceania, and despite the much-discussed integration into the AFC, Oceania seems very much forgotten.
However, we have a stake in the All Whites, as we are the custodians of the cream of New Zealand’s football talent being the closest professional league for them.
Of the starting 11 who played against Italy in a pre tournament friendly, seven ply their trade in the A-League.
While many of them come from the Wellington Phoenix, amazingly the most represented club side at the tournament with more players in South Africa than the likes of Liverpool, AC Milan, Barcelona and Juventus, an increasing amount of Kiwi’s are spreading themselves around the A-League.
With leading goal scorer from last season Shane Smeltz leading the charge, the All Whites will be representing the A-League on the international stage and for that we should all be hoping they serve the league and their country well.
Ricki Herbert’s men face Spain first up, the team many consider the most complete in the world and favourites for the tournament.
While few expect the All Whites to make a peep at the tournament, especially against Spain, their performance against Italy, leading three times but eventually going down 4-3, was a spirited one and highlighted the combined attacking threat of Smeltz and Chris Killen.
Beyond Spain, the clashes against Iraq and South Africa will prove the best barometer to how the All Whites chances of World Cup qualification look come the end of this year.
As they compete on the international stage in a role we once filled, cheer for the underdog even though they are from New Zealand for they are representing Australia too.
They just may be back in South Africa in a year’s time.
Get Australia's best Football opinion emailed daily.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(62)
thinker said | June 14th 2009 @ 9:50am | Report comment
supporting the kiwis over our asian brethren are you serious
Kazama said | June 14th 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Adrian, well said and I agree with you 100%. Just because we have escaped the OFC for greener pastures doesn’t mean we should turn our backs on those we have left behind. Personally I would like for the OFC to be merged into the AFC, but that isn’t going to happen unless pressure is placed on the AFC and FIFA. A strong showing from NZ at the Confederations Cup and a World Cup Finals berth would be a massive shot in the arm for the OFC.
The stronger football is in NZ the better we’ll be for it. I think the Phoenix have been valuable contributors to the A-League and I’m happy to have them in our competition. They supply us with a team we couldn’t field ourselves, access to a community we wouldn’t otherwise touch, and of course a new talent pool to pick players from. If NZ make the World Cup finals, suddenly the euphoria it creates would garner new fans for the Phoenix, which means new fans for the A-League and more money for the FFA.
And for God’s sake FFA, give the Phoenix a youth team. The FFA may be right in saying we have no responsibility to develop NZ football, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t. I see great benefit in giving NZ kids an avenue into the A-League. And just because they are NZ kids doesn’t mean that they have to end up at the Phoenix. The competition is better for having New Zealanders like Shane Smeltz and Glen Moss, and neither of them play for the Phoenix. It could also help to pave the way for future NZ franchises. In reality having a two-tier competition is a pipe-dream if we think we can do it alone. With help from our neighbours, perhaps the idea has a future.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | June 14th 2009 @ 10:51am | Report comment
I tend to agree, Kazama, that the stronger NZ are the better off we will be with the extra competition. Certainly having the Phoenix in has been essential for the A-League as it both increases the pool of talent as well as the size of the supporter base. It is a good example of synergy.
Cpaaa said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
i would also like to see Australia (A-League stars) be involved in some sort of annual tournament (2 groups/ 2 weeks) with say the top six Oceania countries and even invite other asian nations to the tournament.
this will allow more Australians capped for our nation, A-League players become more familiar amongst Oceania’s football fans,
indirectly talent scouting, brings Asia closer to Oceania and Oceania recieve more meaningful games in the process.
Frank Lowey also mentioned the possibility of having a HAL club from the islands, this would be one way of testing the water if such an option is even viable.
Slippery Jim said | June 14th 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
Support New Zealand? How about no. They shouldn’t have a club in our domestic league either in my opinion.
Roy H Driver said | June 14th 2009 @ 6:18pm | Report comment
Very well said Adrain.
Yet Im at a cross roads with the kiwis, They never cared or supported Australia when we needed them to, Nore did any other OFC country. Infact Australia was hated and thanks to one C.Dempsie (RIP) and NZF – the OFC lost its WC birth in 2006.
So here we are supporting the All Whites and hopeing for the best. Why,ll the kiwis couldnt give a hoot about us.
It like watching vultures swam around road kill.
David V. said | June 14th 2009 @ 7:02pm | Report comment
Roy H Driver: Oceania was a basket case confederation, born a terminally patient with no proper care. It benefited neither Australia nor New Zealand, both of whom participated in Asian qualifiers to 1982, both of whom did well in the Asian circuit to then, and with Australia returning it makes sense for New Zealand to do the same. Disbanding Oceania would be in the benefit of NZ- and with the Pacific Islands effectively a lost cause for football.
Koala Bear said | June 14th 2009 @ 7:17pm | Report comment
David V,
Oceania Football has now the largest participation rate of all codes; according to the president of Oceania in an interview on TWG … That’s a great achievement and should be continually supported…
~~~~~~~
KB
David V. said | June 14th 2009 @ 7:28pm | Report comment
But the level of football in Oceania is and continues to be pitiful. Admittedly there are hopeless teams teams Asia and CONCACAF- and that has to be looked at too. Yet the Caribbean develops football talent and can claim players of Caribbean descent in the UK.
True Tah said | June 14th 2009 @ 8:18pm | Report comment
Koala Bear,
David has a point in that it doesnt matter how many players there are in Oceania, you need a professional setup and administration. Look at China, there are probably a couple of hundred million registered players there and they are pretty average.
In Pacific rugby, there is some clear cut pathways for guys to make a career, and indeed rugby players are amongst the main exports of Tonga, Fiji and Samoa. European/Japanese/South African sides know how good these guys are, and will want to sign these guys up. It also helps that Aussies and Kiwis of Pacific Island heritage can assist. The IRB has set up the Pacific Nations Cup which helps showcase their talents.
Its not just rugby, look at American Samoa and their American football setup, professional.
Futbol is number 1 in New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, Tahiti. In New Caledonia and Solomons, probably the two strongest Oceania sides outside NZ, there are underlying social divisions which would impair sport administration, not to mention good players in French colonies would also be eligible for France.
IMO the best way Oceania futbol can improve is through FFA giving salary cap exemptions to signing up guys from these countries. This is unlikely to happen, as FFA would be assisiting another federation, but lets face it, these islands can produce great players (i.e. Karembeu), but are never going to be economic powerhouses.
tifosi said | June 14th 2009 @ 8:42pm | Report comment
true tah,
I like your suggestion about the salary cap being excluded for islanders. Like you said it probably wouldnt work across confederations.
I think that would be a great idea for including the local aboriginal population as well. It would encourage clubs to develop and field aboriginal youngsters.
Macs.football said | June 14th 2009 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Back the bid! http://www.australia2018-2022.com.au/
Midfielder said | June 14th 2009 @ 9:52pm | Report comment
Macs.football
Agree back the bid
Roy H Driver said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:02pm | Report comment
Just to point out a fact. Check out the most viewed NZ soccer site Yellowfever and there in no mention at all about a Australian world cup bid. I even check the forums and found nothing. Really goes to show dont it!.
David V. said | June 14th 2009 @ 11:14pm | Report comment
True Tah,
the player base in China is actually low relative to the population from what I understand. Chinese football has been in dire straits for the last 5 years and while the Chinese government represses all dissent and sedition, it gives an open outlet to fans publicly bashing the (men’s) national team.
Towser said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:37am | Report comment
After last nights 5-0 stroll by Spain they need help from somewhere.,but I dont think its our personal obligation to do so.Thats what FIFA is for.
tifosi said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:50am | Report comment
They were slaughtered this morning and if spain really wanted to they could have won 10 nil.
Lets see how they do in the next two games but needless to say FIFA are going to have to do something about whether or not Oceania should have a place in such tournaments.
Spain were beautiful to watch though.
Hemjay said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:01am | Report comment
NZ deserve to be in Asia as much as Australia does and get regular competition from more skilled opposition,
Its luldicrous that Australia is included when they are about as Asian as Antarctica. The funniest thing of all this Papua New Guinea is closer to asia than Australia yet they are part of Oceania. Go figure
Towser said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Hemjay
The Japanese are Asian so are the Saudis & Uzbekistan etc etc,Asia covers many diverse races & cultures so I dont see Australia as out of place in this mix. But neither should Oceania & therefore NZ be out of the loop. The finger pointing as far as NZ goes should be directly aimed at FIFA,Australia did what they thought best for themselves to advance football in this country. NZ & Oceania should do the same.
Hemjay said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
Towser,
In no way do I blame Australia for being in Asia, what I am trying to allude to which you also have is that NZ and Oceania also should be included and have just as much right.
My reference to Australia being in Asia isn’t based on race but geography. However if it was I think Fiji of all countries statistically would have the highest Asian population in all of Oceania including Australia.
I would suggest that the Oceanic teams play a tournament and the top two or three teams then qualify to play in the Asian con federation. As is the pacific countries qualify for Oceania confederation through the pacifc games and the Oceania conference is only 4 nations strong with NZ being direct qualifiers
Towser said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Hemjay
Your tournament idea is common sense to me. I see this happening in the future. Its nonsensical to keep Oceania as a continuously seperate weak confederation.
tifosi said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
Problem i see is how do the smaller nations afford to travel all around asia?
Besides the New Zealand Under 20 team even came third in the oceania under 20 championship behind tahiti and new caledonia. How could they compete at an asian level?
More competitive games might help but the truth is Rugby dominates the country and with such a small population they will always struggle to make the grade.
Millster said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:32am | Report comment
While I hold affection for them I disagree with supporting NZ football. Through the playoff between OFC champ and 3rd place AFC qualifier for that World Cup spot lets be clear we are rivals with them and it is not in our interest to bolster their strength or skills. Also now that we are in the Asian confederation we have much more interest in fellow teams from our confederation continuing to prove the development and quality of football in our part of the world.
This might sound mean but its life. NZ is a rival, a potentially direct one in the future if we do find ourselves in that 3rd Asian spot playing off against them, and we need to treat them as such. And for the record, to show I don’t have an anti-kiwi bias, I feel the same in Europe where I might have affection for a bunch of countries for a whole lot of reasons, but wouldn’t want to see them have an inch of footballing benefit lest that be used against Les Bleus.
Of course all this changes if OFC gets abolished and some structural solution is found to make an ‘expanded’ AFC happens (I put that in inverted commas as there is only so much one really expands by tacking on a handful of fleas) – which I support all the while not thinking it really registers as a priority for us or for Asian football.
Millster said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
Incidentally my view above leads to a natural disagreement with the continued involvement of the ‘Nix in the A-League.
True Tah said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:40am | Report comment
tifosi
Im not an expert of FIFA or its internal workings, nor that of the AFC, but surely there could be some sort of regional grouping through which they could well progress to say the Asian Cup.
Maybe the top two sides would go to the Asian Cup, and this would eliminate say Vanuatu and the Solomons having to travel to Uzbekistan and Saudi Arabia. Having said that, Im sure New Caledonia as a nation would probably have the economic resources and the support, even if their is some division between the French and the Melanesians.
Millster – to be frank, if Australia are not good enough to beat New Zealand, then there is no way we would deserve to be in the World Cup anyway.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Millster
I’m surprised you would disagree with the continued involvement of the Nix in the A-League.
You understand the commercial realities of modern sports – the Nix plays an important part in keeping our comp financially viable.
Slippery Jim said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Pippu, I thought it was MV which played a key part in…etc. One team which diddles around at the bottom of the table each year is neither here nor there in an expanding league.
Pippinu said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
sj
it goes without saying that MV is key to the viability of the A-League – but I would never dare say that in case I was accused of prejudice – when I am usuallly the epitome of objectivity.
However, that said, the Nix most certainly contribute to the health of the comp – it’s impossible to argue otherwise – and any move to get rid of them would be short-sighted in the extreme.
Kazama said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Millster, you do realise our involvement in Asia is helping to develop football in Asian nations by providing them with quality opposition – so we are already helping our rivals by your argument, and teams like Japan and Korea in turn are helping us.
“I feel the same in Europe where I might have affection for a bunch of countries for a whole lot of reasons, but wouldn’t want to see them have an inch of footballing benefit lest that be used against Les Bleus.”
Such as having their players play in Ligue 1?
If everyone had that mindset, there’d be no foreigners playing in leagues anywhere.
And as True Tah correctly points out, if we can’t beat New Zealand what right do we have think we’re good enough to play in the World Cup finals?
What right do we have to be so selfish after years of getting the short end of the stick from the big boys of football ourselves?
Hemjay said | June 15th 2009 @ 12:34pm | Report comment
This has nothing to do with football but look what NZ did when Australian rugby was in the doldrums. If it wasn’t for NZ the Wallabies would be a non entity and never have gone on to win two world cups. Its a bit of give and take really you scratch my back and i’ll scratch yours.
I’m not a great soccer follower but aren’t the NZ clubs some of the most financially sound in the Australian competitions. The Phoenix last year had some of if not the best fan supporter and attendances to matches. Bringing with them that lovely dollar that is imperative to the survival of any professional competition, Millizer if we should follow your principals ok maybe take them to the extreme that would then exclude players like Smeltz playing in the League and anyone not elligible to play for Australia
jimbo said | June 15th 2009 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
What more can we do for NZ football?
It’s up to them to make their move and I don’t think we are stopping them from joining Asia.
Even though Ricky Herbert thinks it’s a good idea, I don’t think the NZ FA are interested. They are happy with half a shot at the Asian fifth best.
Shame about the 0-5 defeat overnight against Spain in the Confeds Cup, especially after their good result against Italy.
Highlights the gulf in class with Asian and Oceania countries but some good signs in the second half to keep them down to 1 goal and played a lot better.
Millster said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:18pm | Report comment
As I said I mean no harm to the kiwis nor am I unaware of the downsides to my stance (so I hold it by majority vote in my head rather than unanimously if you like…) but the acrobatics of a team not only from another contry but indeed from a totally different confederation playing in what is supposed to be a domestic competition is a step too far for me.
However I do wish NZ football well in general. And as I said, I do support the eventual abolition of OFC and structural reform of AFC to accomodate those pacific nations.
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
David V and True Tah,
the president of the Oceania confederation had also said, Australia leaving Oceania has given NZ a greater impetus in all FIFA sanction tournaments for all their national teams in women’s and men’s FIFA tournaments for all ages.. That has also resulted in opening more doors to the corporate world with more corporate dollars and sponsorships coming in… It seems to me he was suggesting they (NZ) are happy where they are and that Australia leaving Oceania will improve NZ football overall in time.. Let’s hope so… Boy do they need to after their Spain fixture in the Confederation’s cup this morning…
~~~~~~
KB
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Oceania must be included in the Asian conference. The concept of the Oceania conference is flawed greatly.
I too question like that has been suggested in here from Hemjay and True Tah wouldn’t it make more sense to have a Pacific Nations Cup and take the top two teams and place them into the Asian league. This way it doesn’t take the chances of qualifying for a world cup away from the smaller nations but makes it a little more realistic by giving them an equal opputunity to play stronger opposition and the oppurtunity to improve for countries such as NZ, New Caledonia who again it has already been stated could easily account for many of the Asian nations.
Australia is not an Asian country and is firmly rooted in Oceania / Australasia its not their /our fault they moved to the Asian conference but you would think we would be supporting them, I say we loosely as I am a half breed Aussie (mum) / Kiwi (dad)
Towser said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
KB
How can they improve their football in Oceania?. Its impossible. They will still suffer for the majority of their International matches, from the same syndrome that afflicted us prior to Asia. That is lack of regular meaningful matches. A play off against the 3rd placed Asian team at the end of Oceania qualifiers wont do it for them.
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:41pm | Report comment
However I do wish NZ football well in general. And as I said, I do support the eventual abolition of OFC and structural reform of AFC to accomodate those pacific nations.
Millster,
did you see the interview a couple of weeks ago on TWG / SBS (the president of Oceania) …? It seems they are glad Australia are gone and believe NZ can now move forward with new opportunities arising competing in more FIFA tournaments at all levels…
~~~~~~~
KB
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
Towser,
ask the Oceania President… He said so much in the interview on TWG .. It just about guarantees them automatic qualification to all FIFA tournaments at the lower end of the spectrum ..
~~~~~~~
KB
True Tah said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
KB
if that is their attitude, then they will never be a decent futbolling region, is NZ really happy being the biggest fish in a tiny pond?
NZ would improve a lot of their were involved in the Asian Cup. Racking up 31-0 scorelines against the likes of American Samoa didnt really help the Socceroos much did it?
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
So has anyone actually asked NZ what they want to do?
What would happen to Oceania if they were to lose New Zealand and or New Caledonia to Asia?
Australia has joined Oceania and is beneiftting from a higher quality opposition so why are some so adamant that NZ inparticular should not be given the same advantage?
Millster – Using your argument Australia should not be part of Asia right?
Towser said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
KB
I saw the interview. He is kidding himself. May be easier to qualify but it will just mean more thrashings like yesterdays against Spain as True Tah indicated.
Millster said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Ytraboy – why? I don’t follow where you question my logic?
PS: Australia left Oceania to join Asia by the way. And if NZ and New Cal also left, as you hypothesise, then I’m about 799% sure that Oceania would cease to exist as a confederation about 3 minutes later.
Millster said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
I’m with Towser re the NZ issue and Oceania president comments. Being at the Confed Cup a couple of times might feel good until you start realising you are going backwards not forwards.
Note though that we have to be careful not to extrapolate from the one single 5-0 result v Spain last night. A rampant Spain has all the quality and then some to impose a similar scoreline on Australia, and on many other respectable nations.
Towser said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Millster
Agree Spain are “Hot”.
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:38pm | Report comment
Mils,
I question your logic as to why Australia is part of Asia. After all this is the first qualifier series Australia has played in since joining the Asian conference. You do not want to help the New Zealanders out as they are rivals.
So what makes you think us playing in Asia isn’t any different?
We are directly gaining from matches against higher opposition and our ranking continues to climb. Asia our rivals are helping to sustain our football and keep it at a level that is formidable and will only get stronger so maybe we should offer a hand to our Neighbours. Its really hard to talk about us and them when I am both lol
Out of curiosity you say Australia joined Asia, is it really as simple as you make it sound?
Just rock on up to FIFA and ask for an application form to be included into another confederation.
I have heard what the president of Oceania has said but we haven’t heard from New Zealand and what they think. Mils after your last comment I can’t help but put my cynical cap on and say maybe the President is saying all this that NZ is happy to stay as he knows llike you have said that Oceania will become extinct should NZ go elsewhere.
Agree with you on what Spain did and what they could do to much higher ranked teams. They seen what the plucky Kiwis put up against Italy and while they (nz)got a good thrashing Spain gave NZ they respect they deserved in fielding a very strong team.
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:43pm | Report comment
Folks
I don’t know; not being in Asia did not stop us from having a quality team for the WC in 2006.. Before then we just could not get into a WC because of the unfair pathway… Hell will freeze over before NZ will ever be allowed into Asia.. In any case even if they were able to; to compete in Asia with so many klms to travel, with so many national teams to support, they would not cope ..
It’s more to do with the lower end of the spectrum with the youth, rather than the senior teams .. I can see where the OP was coming from, he made some valid points .. Concentrate on the youth with FIFA qualifications and send their best to European competitions and the rest will come as it finally did with Australia…
~~~~~~
KB
David V. said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:48pm | Report comment
I would argue the opposite- that NZ moving into Asia would improve NZ football in the longer term by exposure to regular, decent-level competitions. They would play in Asian Cup and Asian WCQs, putting the miles on board and gaining valuable experience, far more than from any mickey mouse Oceania tournament.
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Btw, if Oceania were to cease; to be absorbed by Asia… Asia would be then too large a confederation to be managed…
~~~~~~~
KB
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
KB,
That is a very sad way to view it and to be honest it screams of arrogance. Yes they may not be as good as some of the bigger nations but they deserve just as much chance of qualifying as we do. We all know teams build with regular time together so whats to say the consistant exposure to quality opposition will not improve their football.
One poster above has stated that when Australian Rugby was at its lowest New Zealand yes those little Islands a few hours east were the ones who stood up and came to our rescue not only with money but with the constant matches of which had we not had we would be seeing the Wallabies in the Pacific Cup with the likes of Samoa and Japan.
Give the youth something to aspire to.
Why will the youth want to play when as you stated their is an unfair pathway to World Cup Qualification
Its ok for us to say its unfair but now we have escaped the comedy that is Oceania football we now sit on our high horse and belittle the other nations from our geographic region and don’t warrant them the same oppurtunities. Or back them reaching out for a higher level of competition which in essence is what the Socceroos did
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
KB,
Sorry just seen your last post about the size of the confederations
Going by FIFAs website Europe has 10 more teams than Asia so I can’t see too many problems with Asia absorbing Oceania as you put it.
I agree with True Tah that the current Oceania teams could play a tournament to decide who goes through to represent them in the Asian qualifiers. As it currently stands only four nations including NZ who have direct representaion contest the Oceania world cup qualifiers. Apart from NZ the other teams qualify for Oceania through the Pacific Games of which the last games had 8 teams vie for three placings. So effectively four teams from Oceania would only take ASIA to 47 teams but realistically lets say for arguments sake that the top two go through this would only increase Asia to 45 teams still 8 teams smaller than Europe. If they poorer nations do qualify surely FIFA or Oceania would help out with travel costs would they not?
tifosi said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:17pm | Report comment
Its interesting how people think australia has improved since leaving the OFC yet the socceroos are being criticized for playing poorly!!!
Australia’s move into asia was financial. Australia needed the competition to put bums on seats.
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
Tifosi,
The same could be said for all the Oceania teams none more so than New Caledonia and New Zealand.
Quality opposition equals bums on seats equals dollars to invest in football at grassroots levels which in turn helps to the progression of their national teams.
Millster said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:26pm | Report comment
Ytraboy – I hear you while not agreeing with you. Also I acknowledge that you are half Kiwi and therefore have interests in NZs success. Me… well if its not France nor Australia then its the enemy.
This issue of “deserve just as much of a chance”. If you told say Peru (in Sth American confed) or Switzerland or Wales (in Europe) or on current group form Cameroon (in Africa) any one of a number of what are clearly better AND more traditional footballing nations than NZ that they could have a crack at the WC via beating a bunch of island minnows and then playing a 2-legged tie against the 5th best side in Asia (likely to be a respect-worth but eminently beatable Middle-Eastern team, certainly not in the world top 20) they would take it any day. I think for a team in NZs position they have it about as good as they will ever “deservedly” get.
Now why don’t I apply the same analysis to Australia back in the OFC days? Well in part I do, except that we made an art-form of slipping on each and every of those pesky “sudden-death” qualifiers, like clockwork every 4 years. And also that Asia recognised that we as a nation add heaps to their confederation, and in return of course we have the strength to perform ok (as we have shown) and qualify via a proper series of group games. Neither of those is true of NZ based on either quality or broader footballing interests.
But bottom line is you’re coming from a compassionate, charitable stance which I respect but does not resonate with my interests-based view of the world. Oh, that is unless another option on the table is for NZ to abregate its sovereignty and be subsumed into the Australian Federation in which case this issue (and many others outside of sport) goes away with the only downside being that the Rugby Union axis of the code-wars would be significantly strengthened
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:41pm | Report comment
Mils,
I don’t think that would ever happen New Zealand bowing down to Australia, they are a nation of little upstarts that have contributed to many a great sporting moments and have caused major upsets in many sporting scenarios.
In a way I’m lucky being both Aussie and Kiwi I can have a good old fashioned ding dong with myself
It certainly can play havoc with ones emotions at times though I must admit.
Take last years league world cup, I really wanted the Roos to smash the Kiwis into the ground but at the same time it was really hard not to smile and cheer for them at the same time. The smile on my Dads face was priceless he had been waiting a long time for that to happen. Then you have the All Blacks love them to bits and I just love it when they beat the Wallabies its one of the best feelings ever but likewise its hard to take sometimes.
So you can understand my dilemas if you see me switching between the two nations at times its hard to keep focused on just the one country as by siding with one I’m denying the other half of me. Both my parents are proud of who they are and even though pop has now been in Australia for 32 years he’s a staunch Kiwi and has never taken Citizenship mum on the other hand she’s a true blue Aussie girl from Bendigo who’s absolutely obsessed with AFL.
So I guess I’d be an Australeander, Koawi
Ytraboy said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
By the way in case your wondering I only discovered this site today its great
Koala Bear said | June 15th 2009 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
“If they poorer nations do qualify surely FIFA or Oceania would help out with travel costs would they not?” I wouldn’t count on it…
Ytraboy,
First of all the West Asian nations are trying to expel Australia from Asia… Not all are happy with our membership in Asia.. We had been tying to get membership for many years… Now that it has finally happen there are some in Asia trying their damn hardest to expel us..
I have no problem with NZ wanting membership and I for one would welcome you, however, the Asian president Bin Hammon does not even want the Phoenix FC to be in the HAL.. So I can’t see you lads ever getting a spot in Asia.. Although, I would not personally object if you did miraculously somehow find away to achieve it…
The O/President has said that Asia would be too large to accommodate all of the Oceania nations into Asia because of the travel.. It would undoubtedly be the lengthiest distances to compete in of all confederations … as it is now, as it stands.. The NZ clubs would have no hope with the ACL tournaments being so far away; although it would be a wonderful dream for you to think it would work, but realistically due to rigours of travel distances for semi professional clubs It would not be durable.. Good luck if you do get in..
Btw welcome to the ROAR, hope you stick around…
~~~~~~~~
KB
whiskeymac said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:57pm | Report comment
NZ have to add ‘value’. I feel Aus only got in because we had so many EPL stars i think, and would make Asia as a confed look good. that and a billionaire with a vision. even though it wasnt so long ago we got smacked 6-0 in the confeds cup with new admin and outlook we have gone from strength to – well – the last 2 WC’s. I hope NZ join us….
oh and i think that the nix add value to the HAL. its a good market for us and some good players too.
Greg Russell said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
While I agree with the sentiment of Adrian’s article, one has to recognize that the Confed Cup is arguably not even a short-term fix for NZ, in fact if anything it holds NZ back. I mean, Australia had decades of (mostly) being Oceania’s top dog, and where did it get us? All those Confed Cup appearances achieved precisely what for us? On the other hand, Australia’s progress in just a few years in Asia has been phenomenal. So the only long-term fix for NZ football is to get into the AFC. How to achieve that? Well there’s a very tricky question. But one thing is for sure, it is a lot more feasible now that Charlie Dempsey is dead!
While whiskeymac is correct that “NZ have to add ‘value’”, the mistake is to thing that the value must be on Australia’s scale, which obviously it cannot be. NZ has an “EPL star” in the form of Ryan Nelson at Blackburn, and they also have a 17-year-old kid called Chris Wood who debuted for (now relegated) West Brom this season, not to mention that Simon Elliott was on Fulham’s books until recently. While NZ’s population is only small, it is a first world market for the ACL to expand into. The folding up of Oceania would mean 4.5 WC spots becoming 5 for Asia. And so on.
I believe the real problem with Oceania becoming part of Asia is that it would be tantamount to FIFA giving up on all the island nations. While this would be a pragmatic move, politically it would be very difficult.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
Greg
Agree with most of what you say. However the question I ask is how can the Island nations even with massive FIFA development money ever be even a remote football force. All have tiny populations ,small economys poor infrastructure etc. Cant see this changing in the near future. Qatar is small but theres lots of money in these Oil countries for football development & its substantially more than FIFA can ever give. I dont see why FIFA would give up on them though, if they became part of Asia. They’d just go in a play off so that the winner could be placed in an Asian group. Lets face it theres some weak Football nations in Europe , but they get an automatic spot in a group. ie Malta, San Marino, Liechtenstein .Andorra, Faroe Islands. FIFA dont seem to bothered that they get end up at the bottom of their group table every World cup so I,m sure they can find a place in Asia for Fiji or the Solomons.
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
Greg i say add value in that if you were selling NZ to Asia, the Asian confed has a right to ask what will they get out of it. “the mistake is to thing that the value must be on Australia’s scale, which obviously it cannot be” i agree, but there still needs to be something there that will make them want NZ in the comp. 2 or 3 EPL journeymen might not do it. As they won’t do it for charity’s sake you wld think that the 0.5 WC place would be enough – that and a realtively competent international (read professional team) with a decent stadium to play out of which would raise the level of the region.
Towser i ca’nt see Fiji, Vanuatu etc ever being given much support from FIFA. As Oceania stands now it appears to have very little prospects and almost no clout. A confeds cup place is scant compensation compared to a “proper” qualification route for the exposure and development the game needs to survive. I like this idea of yours, as a compromise,: “They’d just go in a play off so that the winner could be placed in an Asian group.” Maybe 2 oceania teams could be in the same tiered (asain) level as is found in the Asain Cups (vietnam, laos, bhutan etc) for regional compettions. the region wont prosper if it’s alwasy NZ. Fiji and Vanuatu and Solomon Islands etc have a tradition in the game which should be supported. The obvious issue of the proposal being cost, logisitics and the question of who in asia might miss out. to the exisiting memebers i imagine these are very real and contentious considerations.
Altrenatively, as already suggested in the forums, FIFA may need to rethink how the confederations are made up. Asia is too cumbersomely large, Oceania is way too small.
Towser said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Whiskeymac
To me Oceania is like a boil that appeared on FIFAs skin. Continuously painful & uncomfortable. Dont know what they do nowadays but they used to lance boils:-
http://www.healthmad.com/Alternative/How-to-Lance-Boils-and-Cysts-at-Home.75899
Painful, but it got rid of boils. Sometimes it takes a bit of pain to clear things up.
Greg Russell said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Towser and whiskeymac: I think we are all singing from the same songsheet here. I agree completely with Towser’s assessment of Oceania. The point is not how FIFA feels about rolling up Oceania, but the political stink that Oceania’s reps can make about such a move. There is always horse-trading going on at multiple levels in FIFA, and so the Oceania reps will always be able to find someone to champion their political fight in return for votes on a different issue. Because the whole thing is so irrelevant on the global scale of things, FIFA probably thinks “Let’s avoid any bad press and let Oceania keep existing as an irrelevancy”. I also wonder whether FIFA keeps Oceania going in the off chance that it might one day yield a notable victory over rugby, you know, “Survey shows that football is more popular than rugby in Fiji”, or something like that. When one boils it down, NZ and the Island nations are the only countries in the world where rugby is the no. 1 sport, so for FIFA to break this up would be a nice little victory for them.
A really radical thought: would Asia be better off being split into two Confederations, viz. West Asia (Arab countries) and East Asia (including Oceania)? Would make a lot of sense in many ways (even if it’s not going to happen).
whiskeymac said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
“would Asia be better off being split into two Confederations, viz. West Asia (Arab countries) and East Asia (including Oceania)…”
sure, i like the idea.
but who gets the massive potential markets of China, India…? East for China, India for the West? Cecil Rhodes would be happy to draw up a map…