By Davidde Corran
December 6th 2009 @ 1:24am
New Zealand need to learn their place
New Zealand coach Ricki Herbert, left, and captain Ryan Nelsen reacts after their team's 1-0 win over Bahrain in the World Cup qualifying playoff second leg soccer match at Westpac Stadium in Wellington, New Zealand, Saturday, Nov. 14, 2009. (AP Photo/NZPA, Ross Setford)
For a guy who has never played in Australia’s old National Soccer League, New Zealand Football chief executive Frank van Hattum is sounding very old soccer at the moment.
With most of the world looking at New Zealand’s participation in South Africa with cynical eyes, van Huttum seems to have decided to forgo professionalism in his public comments.
Shortly after the World Cup draw was made, the former New Zealand international challenged Australia to a pre-tournament friendly.
“They keep running away from us, the buggers, they’re chicken shit,” said van Hattum.
“We’ve asked but they were qualified some time ago, there’s a possibility and we’ve got a great relationship with them, they help us quite a bit to be fair and we’d love to play them.
“We’d love to get the thing going again.
“Once again, they’ll probably get beaten by the odd goal and they’ll go back to all the excuses they used to do in the old days.”
Top stuff that. It’s like someone stole van Hutton’s lunch money and he’s now having a fit in the primary school play ground. Can you imagine Ben Buckley referring to another football nation as ‘chicken shit’ even if it was jokingly? It’s just not how someone in that position conducts themselves.
All White fans should also be worried about their football chief’s idea of an ideal opponent to prepare them for their first World Cup in 28 years. New Zealand needs to come to terms with the brand of football played by their Group F opponents (Italy, Paraguay and Slovakia), not the Socceroos’ style.
While a friendly between the two nations might be a bit of fun, I certainly don’t want Pim Verbeek preparing his team for a high quality competitive tournament by playing New Zealand. That would be a huge mistake.
Still van Huttun wasn’t yet done because he soon started bragging about ‘interest’ in playing New Zealand from other nations.
“I just whispered (to the German delegation) that we play very much like Australia and they said, ‘Yeah, we know that, we might be talking to you’,” van Huttun said.
“Slovenia want a game and China want a game, Mexico want a game, so there’s lots of opportunities coming forward and we’ve got a couple of other opportunities in Europe as well.
“We’re going to the biggest event in the world so we need to really start thinking and doing things 100 per cent professionally.”
Funny you should say that Frank. Having spoken privately with high-level staff at Football Federation Australia I know that they are already in talks with a number of nations about some pre-tournament friendlies, including the MCG send-off, but you don’t see Ben Buckley running around telling everyone. It’s just not the done thing.
I’ve never been too keen on the All Whites’ World Cup qualification to begin with as I feel that New Zealand would be better off moving into Asia then just making up the numbers in South Africa.
That said, the World Cup is an opportunity for the game in New Zealand to move forward and New Zealand Football needs to seize upon the momentum from qualifying.
One way they could do so is by trying to join Asia, but the region is hardly going to keel over and let them in. For that to happen van Hutton and his counterparts at New Zealand Football need to convince Asia they have something to gain out of allowing them in (in truth I don’t think they do). These recent comments from van Huttun are hardly the way to do that.
New Zealand football needs to do everything it can to earn respect and not let itself down at the World Cup. Lets hope van Hattum’s comments aren’t going to set the tone of the country’s journey to South Africa.
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Freud of Football said | December 6th 2009 @ 7:26am | Report comment
@The Editors: Can you please stop using this picture, Nelsen looks like he has mental issues. Surely you can find something better?
MyGeneration said | December 6th 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
He looks like he just qualified for the World Cup finals. Leave him alone.
Pippinu said | December 6th 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
Have we become all high and mighty all of a sudden, that we can’t even afford NZ one little friendly between now and June next year?? Not even a friendly with our A-League team as preparation for one of the Asian qualifiers?
Mr cheese said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:17am | Report comment
I agree.
1) The word ‘forego’ has the letter ‘e’ in it. There may be a different spelling in Australia, but je ne crois pas.
2) Is most of the world looking at NZ “with cynical eyes” ? Where’s the proof of that ? You will always have dodgy teams in the competition. I believe that the convicts were not great in 1974. It happens, but you get better with time.
I am glad that the All Whites will be there. I had hoped that Canada would qualify: we all like Canadians because they’re not American. We all like New Zealanders because they’re not………………….you get the picture.
On a serious note, I think they should be left alone. They met the criteria. That is all you can do.
If you sit an exam and pass it, it’s not your fault that the exam was too easy.
Good luck, New Zealand.
Shahsan said | December 6th 2009 @ 12:37pm | Report comment
Mr Cheese,
Forgo means to do without, forego means to go before, or precede. Forgo is the correct word in this case.
Davidde
The Kiwi guy spounds exactly like how an Aussie would speak if they were taunting England. It’s a small rbrther, big brother thing. relax
Jerry said | December 6th 2009 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
They both mean both those things. It’s the same word, just an alternative spelling.
Shahsan said | December 7th 2009 @ 5:50am | Report comment
nonsense.
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 4:08am | Report comment
Mr cheese – from The Times this week: “Ryan Nelson apart, (New Zealand) are no hopers who could be on the end of a couple of rugby scores.”
That is one of the nicer things I have read, heard or seen since New Zealand qualified. Take it from someone who works in the football media in Europe that there are a lot of people who view their place cynically. I’m not saying it is right or even reasonable just that it is so. I even heard a few Irish journalists and fans pipe up about it after they were so harshly knocked out.
Ora said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Did Australia not only win 1-0 last time they played New Zealand?
I find it amusing that some Australians actually think their team is that good.
If Italy the current world champions can play New Zealand in a friendly whilst on a build up to a major international tournament why can’t Australia?
Do you really think you are that good and important in world soccer?
Or is it they are worried they could be upset by a country where football is normally consigned to the late night highlights?
tifosi said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Thats because they were both in South Africa at the same time for the confederations cup
I doubt italy would have played them otherwise.
Saying that, Australia should play NZ. Would be good fun.
Mr cheese said | December 6th 2009 @ 10:09am | Report comment
Are the All Whites allowed to do Le Haka ????
The World Cup is nothing if not theatrical.
The Haka is pure theatre. I love it. I once saw it in the flesh, at Anfield in 1993.
The footballers should do it, How cool would that be ?? ??? ?
Jerry said | December 6th 2009 @ 5:55pm | Report comment
FIFA don’t allow the haka before games. There might be some sort of haka after their final match to thank the travelling supporters (I hope not, it always looks a bit dorky seeing a bunch of skinny white boys doing a haka – have a look at the likes of Stu Wilson and Allan Hewson for instance).
Dan said | December 6th 2009 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
Yeah, unfortunately the soccer boys don’t really have the physique for it… they’re too skinny for it to look intimidating. It’d be like when the “Tall Blacks” do it in basketball: just plain embarrassing. Leave the Haka to the All Blacks (and maybe the RL team “the Kiwis” too).
Pippinu said | December 6th 2009 @ 6:48pm | Report comment
I agree with the Haka ban on all non-rugby sports.
Hammer said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
The Haka is not part of NZ football – it won’t happen – nothing to do with FIFA bans
mahony said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Ora – “their team” – so you are not from around here? Either way, Australia will choose who it plays for footballing and commercial reasons. On both counts playing New Zealand is a waste of time. We understand our place in the grand scheme of the world game – the Coca Cola FIFA Rankings remind us regularly.
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:51am | Report comment
Where’s ‘here’, Mahony??
hammer said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:08am | Report comment
NZ need to learn their place – really ? and where would that be then ? .. what nasty piece this is – esp straight after the draw
Pippinu said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:11am | Report comment
It is a bit on the nasty side – it would almost be acceptable if it were slightly tongue in cheek – but I think he’s serious.
Mr cheese said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:20am | Report comment
It’s a good thing only if it gives the French an opportunity to write about “Les Neo-Zelandais”.
That resonant prefix makes them sound like some kind of skinhead group.
Ricki Herbet – C’est Un Genie !!!!!!!!!!
Mr cheese said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Ricki Herbert, I think his name is.
My mistake.
VootballKid said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:56am | Report comment
I totally agree that New Zealand should aim to join Asia for their own sake. They’re the only Oceanian country left with the resources to be able to e.g. fly half way round the world for continental fixtures. You mention: but what would be in it for AFC? I’m curious, what was in it for the AFC for Australia to join? Why did they let us in?
AndyRoo said | December 6th 2009 @ 9:17am | Report comment
after the group draw that has AFC teams up agaisnt it the AFC will be looking for ways it can preserve it’s number of spots.
that’s NZ’s in, but if they get thrashed at the World cup then they may be no good for that purpose.
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:33am | Report comment
One of the reasons that Asia accepted Australia into the AFC was because it would help secure their World Cup spots and give them another reason to argue for more. The addition of another developing but strong professional domestic competition in the A-League was also a plus for the region and the Asian Champions League
FFA also made promises to be a good member of the Asian football community, while not forgetting it’s Oceania roots. There was enough of a sense that Australia would offer more then it would take away (namely a position at the World Cup and Asian Cup).
VootballKid said | December 7th 2009 @ 5:07am | Report comment
Yeah, and I suppose our pedigree would raise the standards right across the AFC, whereas New Zealand can’t really offer that. Plus, were a good place to host the Asian Cup and AFC executives love a good junket.
Steve said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:53pm | Report comment
Some “West” Asian nations (and most of Europe) would look at many of your stated reasons (Australia joining the AFC) with “cynical eyes”.
AndyRoo said | December 6th 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
We should be playing them in a 3 game series as something to keep the a league boys active in the time where the A league has finished and europe is still going on.
For the first game we pick all our A league players of Italian origin Colisimo is captain and so on
It might be a bit of a stretch when it comes to Paraguayans and Slovakians though…although 30 years ago we could have put out a handy Chzech team.
Peter Wilson said | December 6th 2009 @ 9:27am | Report comment
Coming off Rugby for a while – could one of the World’s Reporters please tell me how 13 Countries from Europe appear to be in the World Cup Soccer – This is absolutely ridiculous. Among the Countries are France – England – Denmark – Netherlands. Then we have Italy – Switzerland – Portugal – Spain – Germany – Serbia – Slovakia – Slovenia. Let us have a play of for three teams only from that part of the World. We have New Zealand – Japan – South Korea – North Korea (I do not recall them playing off for a entry). This means that the European sides besides the South American – North American and South African Nations have a stronger chance of Qualifying. In other words the Soccer World Championship is a wrought made up of European Teams mostly. This was sent to Spiro who told me to write to you people
Millster said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
Ummm… I suggest you go to http://www.fifa.com and look up the qualification structure in the differen continents. Over 200 teams started the adventure. While you’re on the FIFA site look at the current world rankings and them come back and tell me whether 13 European teams from 32 total is too many. For mine they are underdone if anything, and it makes it doubly sad for team like Ireland, Russia and the Ukraine to miss out while muppets like NZ get in.
Pippinu said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:46pm | Report comment
Someone recenlty came up with a very good suggestion – that we just let the top european and south american nations go for it – and leave the rest of the cannon fodder out of it.
Shahsan said | December 7th 2009 @ 8:08pm | Report comment
This is exactly the sort of exclusiveness for which the Amercians have been berated for over the years eg calling their baseball championships the World Series (yes, i know there is another reason it is called the “world” series, but the commonly believed reason makes sense nevertheless).
Their rationale would be that, even if they opened it up to the rest of the world, it would still come down to their teams in the end. So why waste time? “Let’s just let our top teams go for it and leave the rest of the cannon fodder out of it.”
marinerdiehard said | December 6th 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
that is just a bit harsh on NZ, but i guess after the way he spoke “chicken shit” then he was kinda asking for it, although i dont think you needed to have a dig at NZ as a whole, thats just stupid, dude seriously!
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:35am | Report comment
Hi marinerdiehard, I’m not sure where you think I had a dig at New Zealand “as a whole” but I haven’t. If Ben Buckley had of made the comments I would have written the exact same piece but with his and Football Federation Australia’s names instead of van Huttun’s and NZF.
s2art said | December 9th 2009 @ 9:32am | Report comment
How many different ways would you have spelt Buckley?
Pippinu said | December 6th 2009 @ 10:18am | Report comment
That’s a pretty good idea – watching Smeltz and Culina last night for the first 65 minutes – it seems to me they would both benefit from somethign like that.
Realfootball said | December 6th 2009 @ 11:26am | Report comment
Sorry for my ignorance, but is Van Hattum something official in NZ football?
If he is, then he is one monumental embarrassment.
But Davidde, “learn their place” is very unfortunate as a tag line.
Mr cheese said | December 6th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
I just assumed that all of that was more in keeping with relaxed antipodean ways.
In the Australian parliament, politicians occasionally call their opponents “snakes” or “liars” or something. Over here, that would be deemed rude because we have unelected Lords who were born before the Crimean War.
All of these conventions are subject to local culture. In France, for example, the team has been managed in the past by at least one poet. That’s the French style, y’see.
In Aussie and NZ, they call each other “chickenshit” because the hot weather induces a certain candour and plain-speaking.
Countries are different. Isn’t that the explanation ?
Best wishes,
Monsieur Fromage
Ora said | December 6th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
“I’ve never been too keen on the All Whites’ World Cup qualification to begin with as I feel that New Zealand would be better off moving into Asia then just making up the numbers in South Africa.”
Ah hello did New Zealand not beat the 5th best team Asia could offer???
If anything New Zealands so call ed making up the numbers proves just how weak the AFC really is, or does it send a warning to ASIA and the rest of the world how good the All Whites could be if they had regular competition.
Reading your article again says more about how bitter you are than it does about the NZ football management!!
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:39am | Report comment
Hi Ora it’s strange to read someone write that I am bitter when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Read it over again:
“I’ve never been too keen on the All Whites’ World Cup qualification to begin with as I feel that New Zealand would be better off moving into Asia then just making up the numbers in South Africa.”
Where is the bitterness? On the contrary its a comment that comes out of good will for New Zealand football because I think being in Asia would do more for the game long term then an appearance at the World Cup. It’s an opinion and one you’re obviously welcome to disagree with.
Ora said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:08am | Report comment
David,
While you justify your comment and seem very much of the vein New Zealand will get thrashed I find it highly amusing you not once mentioned anything about the fact NZ beat the 5th best that ASIA could offer!
Say what you like re the Kiwis chances come world cup, but thyey deserve to be there, if Asia deserved a 5th team they would have won pure and simple really.
What makes anyone think that Saudi Arabia had they qualified would not get thrashed again or Bahrain for that matter. Do remember the latter, the 5th best the AFC could offer couldn’t even put the Kiwis away, that tells me they would be just as if not more likely to be on the end of some huge cricket scores also!
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:31am | Report comment
I never mentioned anything about a team from Asia or anyone else deserving New Zealand’s spot. I’m not sure where you’ve got that from. I also never mentioned anything about New Zealand’s chances in the tournament. For the last time – I think they would get more out of joining Asia then a world cup appearance. That is all.
Ora said | December 7th 2009 @ 6:41am | Report comment
David you wrote the article did you not.
I gave an opinion and raised the question myself?
Where did I say you wrote anything about the 5th best team?
I asked you why you hadn’t commented on it. You have however chosen to ignore the point which I raised and once again it tells me more about the author (yourself) than it does NZ or anyone replying to this beat up of an article.
It wasn’t until much further into the replies where you have tried justifying your position and attitude towards NZ football. It was a big oversight on your behalf an one can only assume you stance now is in response to the overwhelmingly negative response to this article.
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Ora I don’t think New Zealand defeating Bahrain has anything to do with van Hutton’s comments or my article and that is why I haven’t mentioned it and wont be.
I’m not sure what any of my comments (or lack thereof) can tell you about me seeing as it doesn’t appear to have even told you my name. The disappointing thing is we actually agree on pretty much everything. Maybe our lines got crossed somewhere. Never mind.
hammer said | December 6th 2009 @ 12:13pm | Report comment
I know FVH personally and I could almost guarantee that comment was made with a smile on his face – and probably in earshot of a couple of Aussies and was part of some friendly banter
who gives a toss where he played his football – he’s been a great servant to NZ football and is now part of a forward thinking NZFA – their qualification process was no different to what Aussies used last time out – it is what it is – after this W/cup NZ need to lobby Asia for entry into their 2nd group stage and remain in Oceania to take advantage of the benefits of youth w/cup spots, confed cup and Olympic qualification – after all this what was a major benefit to aust football for a considerable time
this is a spitful piece and says more about the “journalist” than it does about anything else
Realfootball said | December 6th 2009 @ 2:56pm | Report comment
I remember seeing Van Hattum play and he was also a very good goalkeeper. The problem with tongue in cheek comments is that out of context they can be very damaging.
However, I don’t think that NZ are the kind of opponents Australia needs right now to prepare for the cup. With all due respect to the All Whites Australia needs tougher, more technically skilled opposition to prepare for Germany, Ghana and Serbia. Difficult to see the point in spending a lot of time, money and effort playing the All Whites.
Very disappointing that the Phoenix received little if no attendance “bounce” from qualification considering half the national team play for the club.
AndyRoo said | December 6th 2009 @ 3:52pm | Report comment
I would have thought for the A league guys that don’t get a loan deal then we should be playing NZ. Keep them sharp once the A league finishes.
Could be a 3 match series all played in NZ. Coyne, Sterjovski, Cullina, Stefunuto if he is back, Milosivic and Gelekovic, Moore, Brosque, Colisimo, perhpas Carl Valeri (if he doesn’t get his January move) and so on. basically A league guys and whoever wants a game.
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:45am | Report comment
Hammer, no one is putting van Hutton’s football career into question. Certainly I haven’t anyway. Read the opening paragraph again and you’ll notice it is a reference to the poor administration that blighted Australian football until recently.
We seem to agree on the future of New Zealand Football being in Asia which I am happy about but I don’t know where you draw any spite from in this piece. Van Hutton’s comments, while funny pub banter, were inappropriate from a person in his position. Both Australia and New Zealand are members of the world football community and need to behave like it.
Andy Roo, that is an idea with merit.
Hayden said | December 6th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Get over it Davidde. New Zealand are going to the WC, and judging by the draw will progress about as far as Australia will . Interesting that although NZ have been drawn in the same group as Italy, they talk of nothing more than looking forward to taking them on, while from the Aussie press there is already whining and moaning about their ‘group of death.’ Man up for God’s sake.
Realfootball said | December 6th 2009 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Agree that to call Australia’s group the “group of death” is wild hyperbole. I do think, however, that there is real potential for Australia to progress to the next phase, whilst I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams expects the All Whites to progress beyond the group stage. Don’t get me wrong, I think it is wonderful that the Kiwis are there, but there is a huge gulf in class and experience between the two teams.
Bay35Pablo said | December 6th 2009 @ 3:09pm | Report comment
We’re not in the group of death, and any football writer saying that is a fool It is a tough group. England, Spain and Taly’s groups are “easier”, but this is the World Cup and any team will be decent. Ours is probably equal to Argentina’s or the Netherland’s.
Brazil, North Korea, Ivory Coast and Protugal. That’s death!!!
van Hattum was obviously playing up. Yes people don’t do this anymore, but don’t we keep complaining all the characters in sport aregone now? Here is a guy ecstatic at making the Cup, and getting a free shot in at the Aussies who look down their noses at the Kiwis. He knows NZ aren’t going to get beyond the group stage unless there is a minor miracle, but why not enjoy it!
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:51am | Report comment
Bay35Pablo that is a good point about characters in the game. We are indeed missing them but I’m not sure we need such behaviour from our administrators. We need them to administrate our game well not ‘take pot shots’. It’s different if a player or manager are having a bit of fun. Though that’s just my take.
Stalker said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:31pm | Report comment
Davidde – Let it go mate. We are not interested in this spiteful piece of writing. “Learn their place” doesnt refer to just one person. We know what you mean… Who else needs to “learn their place”??? I
kevkom said | December 6th 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
This is tongue in cheek right. You can’t really be that arrogant about someone being arrogant? Australia does not have divine right to decide which country comes from this part of the world wheher they are part of Asia or Oceania – remember Australia dcided to leave the confederation. Does that mean that it should then reduce the opportunity for Oceania to have representation – arrogant, arrogant, arrogant. Or maybe it was tongue in cheek. BTW this is a ‘world’ cup and so arguably needs to ‘repesent’ the world rather than just be the ‘best’ in the world. The major issue with Oceania is that most of its member countries are islands with low budgets for travelling – should this mean they be excluded from the world cup? Just decided this was not clever enough to be tongue in cheek. Arrogant or sour grapes?
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:54am | Report comment
Read the article again and tell me when I say we should dictate “which country comes from this part of the world” and that New Zealand shouldn’t be at the World Cup next year then we can discuss my apparent case of “sour grapes”.
Crazy Dave said | December 6th 2009 @ 3:55pm | Report comment
If the Aussies play the Kiwis as a warm-up match before the World Cup, then Pim needs his head read…
The biggest advantage to the Kiwis from qualifiying for the Cup, won’t be playing in the Cup…. it’ll be the friendly (or not so friendly) training matches against some of the other teams. Might do them a world of good….
AndyRoo said | December 6th 2009 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
It wouldn’t be the real team getting their legs broken it woul be the a league guys who would otherwise be stting in a gym all day.
Sam said | December 6th 2009 @ 4:49pm | Report comment
How many more of these articles are we going to have to put up with between now and the world cup? Anyone would think Australia is some soccer super-power or something? I agree with most of the posts above that this article is just spiteful. It was clearly a tongue in cheek comment and shouldn’t be read into too much. I think there may be a little bit of truth that Australia are a little scared they might lose if they play NZ – they don’t want to risk exposing that they aren’t a Brazil, Germany or Spain.
Jerry said | December 6th 2009 @ 5:58pm | Report comment
The stupid thing about people carping about NZ’s qualifying route is that Asia doesn’t deserve 4 and a half places either. FIFA’s long since put paid to having the tournament have the best teams and instead makes sure that all regions are well represented. In practice this means that Asia, Africa and North America are over-represented.
Midfielder said | December 6th 2009 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
Pure BS … Europe is way over rated and North Amercia as well …
katzilla said | December 6th 2009 @ 6:11pm | Report comment
Lol, that is Football snobbery at its very best. “It’s just not the done thing”
Please dear sir, would you be kind enough to lend us your ‘Appropriate behaviour for the elite of Football’ handbook?
While your at it can you tell us what the air is like to breathe up there in the Seeded pot?
I’m sure its much cleaner then down here in the Minnows pot. Geography Smeography.
Jim Bom said | December 6th 2009 @ 7:29pm | Report comment
I think the points in the article have been lost beneath the hyperbole. Australia have 2 Asia Cip qualifiers to play next year. Although the team composition could be mostly A-leaguers, these are no preparation for the WC. The friendlies to be played in preparation for RSA should be with teams who play in a similar style to the teams we will play in the group stages. Playing NZ, although a lot of fun, does no good for the preparation for either team. As was stated in the article, our styles are similar.
Secondly, the thing about NZ joining AFC has some merit, but it’s unrealistic in the current structure of AFC qualifying. A region that stretches from Damascus to Wellington and includes all points south and up to Tashkent, Beijing to Pyongyang is ridiculous. How could anyone even contemplate NZ playing Syria, for example, on a two legged home and away series. It’s not green, it’s expensive and it doesn’t have the players health and well being in mind. Just look at the issues for Australia, and they have the benefit of qatas stumping up the travel costs.
I wish NZ well, but I remeber a similar euphoria in ‘82…..which came to what? Sadly not much.
Pippinu said | December 6th 2009 @ 8:25pm | Report comment
Jim
your point is well made – but that’s not that tack this article took.
Anyway – as a few of us have said – organise an A-League socceroo outfit to play them after the grand final – what’s the big deal??!!
Davidde Corran said | December 7th 2009 @ 4:02am | Report comment
Pippinu that is EXACTLY the tack this article took. It would seem everyone has got caught up in an off the cuff note I had at the top of my article when I submitted it which then became the title and decided not to absorb what I have actually written. In truth I never actually expected “New Zealand need to learn their place” to become the headline.
While a match against an A-League Socceroo outfit would be some fun for all concerned, as I said in my piece, I think New Zealand should aim for more appropriate opponents in the lead up to the World Cup. Teams with a style of football that matches their Group opponents.
A friendly down the line after South Africa should be organised.
nick said | December 6th 2009 @ 7:50pm | Report comment
Arsetralia will finish bottom of their group.
It’s amusing to hear the delusional BS of people who know nothing about football
AA said | December 7th 2009 @ 3:18am | Report comment
Why is this lot (i.e. NZ) getting this attention? End. of. Story.
Trevor said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:33am | Report comment
If you are going to go off on a rant like this, how about you get some VERY basic facts right.
Frank van Hattum is not the Chief executive of New Zealand Football. He is the Chairman of New Zealand football, think Frank Lowy. Ben Buckley’s equivalent as CEO is former Sony NZ head, Michael Glading.
How hard is it to verify the most basic of facts ?
Frank van Hattum is a different style of leader to Frank Lowy, he’s more a ‘man of the people’ sort fo guy, and occassionally makes a comment that gives the game in NZ a media boost rather than a carefully worded, carefully phrased re-hash of a PR company written release. Maybe he is a more appropriate Chairman for New Zealand and has a better idea than a glorified blogger of what is right for the game in his market ?
Mind you, Ignoring that, I’d have thought that a far bigger concern for Australian bloggers would be the fact that our Socceroo players are shockingly out of form, our coach is ridiculously overrated and we’ve drawn a group we’ll be lucky to get a point out of, but maybe that is just me.
Hammer said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:09am | Report comment
Trevor – that’s an 100% correct analysis of FVH personality and his role at NZF …
Davidde I understand that the heading may not what you wanted (this site has on numerous occasions shown that the sub editors often do a poor job when selecting headings for articles) – but you do acknowledge that they’re your words – they are a poor choice, however I’m rather heartened that fans from both sides of the Tasman deem it worthwhile to make comment on what they consider a poorly worded piece …
It’s no surprise that journo’s in Britain are moaning and being dismissive on NZ’s place in SA – who cares – we all know that even if Europe had 20 spots that still wouldn’t be enough ? … it’s worth noting that the kiwis won’t be the lowest ranked team there and I’m sure the comments from the Times could be attributed a fair number of the sides attending ….
as for the Irish – well tough – initially I like nearly everyone else felt sorry for them – but I’m definitely in the Roy Keane camp – they had their chances – several in fact – and didn’t make – their actions since make them nothing but an embarrassment
As for NZ qualification – did you feel it necessary to make a similar call when Australia qualified last time out via exactly the same process … sure it’s not ideal – but as I previously mentioned NZ have some massive benefits from being the big fish in Oceania – benefits which Australia previously enjoyed and which certainly assisted in developing Australian football – things like youth W/cup spots, Confed Cup qualification, Olympics – for both their men’s and woman’s teams … sure a group stage qualification for their senior team would be fantastic – esp to try and replicate the recent Wgtn crowd – that’s why I believe Oceania should take their half spot and bring it to the negotiating table with Asia and get into the second round Asian qualifiers
Pippinu said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:19am | Report comment
In fact, the last time Australia was required to play an Asian team for the last spot in the 32, we failed
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:22am | Report comment
“this site has on numerous occasions shown that the sub editors often do a poor job when selecting headings for articles”
Disagree Hammer, if the subbies didn’t make the headings more inflammatory then there would half the posts there are. Case in point: this very article.
Republican said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:33am | Report comment
Soccer is low scoring. It is a game that promotes the underdog upset, i.e. seeded teams being beaten by unseeded ones.
NZ have every opportunity to proceed further than Oz despite their obvious lower status in the’ World Game’. They have certainly benefited greatly from being included in our domestic comp as have all the manner of Kiwi codes, which they must be extremely humbled by?
I have witnessed some of the Soccerroos form over recent years and must say that they don’t look that flash to me, but then NZ look even less so.
Cheers
Ora said | December 7th 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
No republican not all, I seem to recall New Zealand has a thriving domestic rugby competition something Australia can only dream of replicating.
Millster said | December 7th 2009 @ 7:50pm | Report comment
Ora – don’t fret for us mate; we can match you for insular hic codes going nice and strong domestically. In fact we trump you kiwis and your union, as both our examples aren’t even really ‘old empire’ games but much more ‘pure’ aussie parochial idiosyncracies. We do share in your over-inflation of them though… indeed it is a national art for some on this side of the moat (particular for Victorians, I observe).
Stalker said | December 7th 2009 @ 9:40pm | Report comment
I can see the invites out now for a Aussie side to join the Air NZ cup…wait… no – they’ll be needing those players for Melbourne….
Ora said | December 8th 2009 @ 5:19am | Report comment
Millister you are nothing but a provocative twat.
How about you run along and give your hands a rest. You have nothing constructive to say in either of your comments in here except attack NZ. Rather childish don’t you think and shows you for the pillock that you really are!
Dean Pantio said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:43am | Report comment
What a spectacular whinge over absolutely nothing. No wonder you’re a soccer correspondent.
PastHisBest said | December 7th 2009 @ 10:48am | Report comment
Can’t write about the riveting matches Dean…
Fritz said | December 13th 2009 @ 9:02pm | Report comment
NZ needs to learn it’s place? I think we need to learn ours.
NathanC said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:59am | Report comment
it just doesnt make sense for us to play New Zealand atm. We need to be playing African nations to prepare us for Ghana. We tend to struggle with the pace and physicality of african football. Like the article said why would New Zealand want to play us? Its basically the same reason why Australia basically never play England. While rivalries are exciting and all that playing a rival in a friendly match is pretty counter productive. The socceroos, while pretty lucky, proved they could match it with the best in the recent game against Holland (and they did thrash ireland). New Zealand need to start producing some results if they want to silence the critics.
for the record i dont think either side will make the last 16 of the world cup anyway.