The news in The Australian that the club rugby championship between 2009 premiers Sydney Uni and Brothers is off is a frightening sign of the problems facing rugby not just in Queensland, but NSW and Australia.
Apparently, Brothers weren’t able to find the $7,000 to fund the travel expenses for Sydney Uni, which they are responsible for, and all this for the curtain raiser for the Reds Vs Tahs Super 14 game.
While it might be understandable that an amateur/semi-professional club not be able to find this type of cash for a symbolic game, neither the QRU or ARU were able to help out, with both of them apparently facing financial tightness.
In fact, apparently the QRU are yet to pass on the $80,000 per club allocation from the ARU, and when they do, it will be reduced to $50,000 to help out the QRU’s current woes.
Clubs expecting that cash would appear to have been caught short, woes that perhaps throw into perspective why certain people at the QRU were allegedly playing games with certain government development allocations to cover operating expenses.
While there has been plenty of good news coming out of Queensland recently, with decent junior and schools numbers, Ewen McKenzie being made coach, and a rejig of the administration (including Rod “Slaughter” McCall as head honcho), this shows that the problems at the QRU are serious and potentially as bad as those that made the NSWRU insolvent some years ago.
Does the ARU have the funds to bail them out like they did the NSWRU?
Clearly they do with $15m in the bank from the 2003 World Cup, even after the losses incurred for no real benefit on the ARC. However, given the apparent financial problems facing even the ARU, they will probably do so only as a last resort
I can’t help feeling that the problems in Queensland perhaps aren’t isolated, and perhaps we should be looking more closely at NSW rugby to make sure we don’t have a similar rude surprise (again).
Further, when we all ask why more money isn’t being put into grassroots and development rugby, the answer is simple – those in charge don’t have it. The complete absence from rugby in the football codes’ battle for western Sydney in the media is stark.
Again and again the fans decry those in charge of the game, and it seems like the chickens (of doom) are coming home to roost. Forget rugby league having an independent commission, perhaps rugby needs it more!
On reading The Australian article about this, I have had a sick feeling which all the bad news and bad rugby of the last year or two never came close to.
This is a sign of something much more serious boys and girls, make no mistake. Something is rotten in the state of rugby, and needs fixing.
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February 13th 2010 @ 2:46am
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 2:46am | Report comment
The strength of rugby is in its players and supporters, this is even high and above Rugby Leagues mob and Footballs crowd. We look towards a time when we can be sure of the finances and popularity of our code but this is not going to be soon. The only possible way to recreate the Rugby spirit is to bring about a Rugby Nation and harness those who are passionate beyond belief.
Make no mistake I see Rugby as a religion in many senses, and we need to spread the word and be evangelistic about it. Take our passion and harness it for the good of rugby, because our passion is the best part of rugby, and is what has kept it alive for so long, and will continue to sustain it.
February 13th 2010 @ 6:25am
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 6:25am | Report comment
Like all religous zealots, you tend to see what isn’t there. Passion won’t pay the bills.
February 13th 2010 @ 8:59am
sheek said | February 13th 2010 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Rugbyfuture,
Your’e a nice kid, but get your head out of the sand. Your very first sentence is totally inane.
I often say the first step in rugby moving forward is to acknowledge there is a problem. Evangelical ramblings is not helpful…..
February 13th 2010 @ 11:40am
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 11:40am | Report comment
I never said there werent any problems i stated that its main strnegth is in the supporters and its upto these supporters to grab it by its horns. you’ve read my articles ive acknowledged problems, and talk alot of things out.
Dan, its about creating the support which will then pay the bills.
February 13th 2010 @ 11:59am
Dogs Of War said | February 13th 2010 @ 11:59am | Report comment
Do you believe supporters of other codes aren’t as passionate? I think you are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. You only have to look at this website to know that their is plenty of passion for all the main sports in Australia.
Rugby League believe it or not has similar issues to the ARU, which is why the Independent Commission and what it’s intentions are (does it run the whole game? Does it dictate direction of junior leagues/game? Just in charge of the professional game? How much of the TV money goes to the grassroots development?).
I am sure the ARU is taking a wait and see approach to how it works out for the NRL. Not that Rugby Union will ever die in this country while Rugby League is around. They feed off each other.
February 13th 2010 @ 12:04pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 12:04pm | Report comment
again, highlighting the strength of Rugby is its supporters, not that they’re exceptionally more passionate than others, but they do have what it takes to reinvogorate it.
the ARU couldn’t operate in the same way as the NRL or create an independant commission wholistically running the game. Im not boasting or insulting here but the NRL andARL can do this because they can also control the game internationally.
February 13th 2010 @ 12:17pm
Dogs Of War said | February 13th 2010 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
What? “Im not boasting or insulting here but the NRL andARL can do this because they can also control the game internationally.”
What has that got to do with the game domestically? Sure you can’t change the rules, but you can fix the structure of the game domestically to ensure it is doing what it should be, which currently it needs a 3rd tier (so club Rugby in Sydney/Brisbane can go back to ammeter status), a better spread of teams in places like Sydney to capture part of Western Sydney, and thus ensure a pathway to the higher grades exist. I am sure that someone more involved in Rugby could point out plenty of areas which need fixing, not just spruke comments that suggest “passion” is the answer to there prayers.
February 13th 2010 @ 1:45pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Im talking bout the NRL with the IC, its going to control how the game is played at pro levels. Domestically for rugby it is a solution to set up the third tier, but thats out fo cost range it appears. Im talking about the grassroots levels which feeds to proffesional enthusiasm. If you were able to create greater numbers of people with passion for rugby, by using current passionate supporter you would be able to build up enough support for the game to reinvogorate the cash til. The passion side of it means using the passion that exists to create a pyramid scheme of support. harness those that are passionate and get them to get others to support the game. it needs enough support drummed up for it by general public since the rich guys dont pay more for a ticket. then with enough support the ARU can drum up the third tier comp. then with enough support of that you form an independant company with majority ownership by the ARU.
A rugby IC wouldn’t work because of the governing process of the IRB etc. however we do need to get rid of protentious joeys boys running the thing.
February 13th 2010 @ 2:59pm
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 2:59pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture – are you still a teenager? You need a reality check.
If these RU evangelists you speak of can achieve the dream you hope for, why hasn’t it already happened?
Generations of Australian rugby tragics have lived and died, and the great revelation you hope for has never happened.
What is the magic ingredient that you envisage bringing forth to offer us a new dawn?
Given no one so far has been able to do what you hope to do, I look forward to hear what you have in your rather fanciful and teenage mind.
February 13th 2010 @ 3:10pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
yes Dan, i am still a teenager actually.
Mainly because theway rugby is followed isn’t very loudly, there was thread a ouple of weeks ago talking about how theres no spirit in the crowd because noone cheers like a rancid bull.
Dan i point you towards the roar as a starting point for the magic ingredient.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/09/30/its-time-for-the-launch-of-rugby-australia/
Theres always a first dan, and thats what progression is. as ive said before here, dreams are the foundations of the future.
its people who dismiss new ideas and the teenage mind who make no progress and die out. its called evolution.
(edit: just noticed you’re other posts, it seems perfectly viable that you see no hope for rugby when you’re just as much a bigot for league it seems as you’re describing some of us)
February 13th 2010 @ 3:22pm
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
Even Luke Skywalker needed a Yoda. Hopefully you will find yours.
February 13th 2010 @ 5:14pm
sheek said | February 13th 2010 @ 5:14pm | Report comment
Rugbyfuture,
To say rugby union fans are more passionate than league, soocer or AFL fans is unsustainable. Even on The Roar, which is predominately a rugby union site, post a soccer article & it gets the same number of hits as do 10 rugby articles.
Ditto a recent indiginous RL article, with as many hits as say half a dozen rugby articles.
Whatever the passion of rugby union fans, there seimply aren’t enough of us – just like a cronic lack of player participants & funds.
February 13th 2010 @ 5:53pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 5:53pm | Report comment
the reason we have to ooze it for the sake of the game. I believe that Rugby fans are more willing to put in at the moment to revitalise the game, even if the RL or AFL or football supporters had their game going downhill in australia, i think Rugby would be more willing and better at it than them (maybe not aussie rules)
February 14th 2010 @ 11:40am
Dogs Of War said | February 14th 2010 @ 11:40am | Report comment
The fact that League even exists after Super League is a testament to the fact that it’s supporters do have passion for the sport. Not many sports could have survived such a war, given the competition that exists in Australia for the sporting dollar.
February 14th 2010 @ 11:56am
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 11:56am | Report comment
RF, rugby fans aren’t any moe or less hard core than any other of the major football codes.
While we are competing with them, we have our own rpbolems, some of which we can look to the other codes for guidance on how to deal with them.
February 14th 2010 @ 11:22pm
rugbyfuture said | February 14th 2010 @ 11:22pm | Report comment
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/club-title-fight-on-again/story-e6frg7o6-1225830275068
lub title fight on again
* Wayne Smith
* From: The Australian
* February 15, 2010 12:00AM
THE club championship final between Queensland and NSW premiers, Brothers and Sydney University, is back on after Brothers players volunteered to pay the cost of getting their opponents to Brisbane from their own pockets.
As revealed in The Australian on Thursday, the match, which was to have been played as the curtain-raiser to next month’s Reds-Western Force match at Suncorp Stadium, had been cancelled because the Brothers club could not meet the $7000 cost to fly the Sydney team to Brisbane.
It had also wanted the match staged at its home ground, Crosby Park, which would have allowed the club to recoup most, if not all, of their costs through gate takings and bar receipts.
Brothers club president, former Wallabies captain Tony Shaw, said yesterday his players were dismayed when they learned the match might have to be abandoned for financial reasons. “They offered to meet the costs themselves, just so it could go ahead,” Shaw said.
Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.
As it happens, that won’t be necessary as former Wests president Joe Nowak, the man who helped revive the Australian club championship concept after his club won the Brisbane premiership in 2006, offered to meet half of Brothers’ costs.
Their opponents still needed to agree to the change of venue, but Sydney Uni general manager Ray Dearlove confirmed on Friday that would not be a problem.
The match is set for Crosby Park on March 13.
community rugby at its best.
February 15th 2010 @ 3:51pm
Red Cap said | February 15th 2010 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Excellent – the players are paying for it. LOL.
Sounds maintainable.
Look forward to next year’s… although it will doubtlessly go the way of the brilliantly conceived ARC.
February 22nd 2010 @ 11:54am
Sharminator said | February 22nd 2010 @ 11:54am | Report comment
not exactly a long term solution is it … having players pay for matches. Lets have a chook raffle and a meat tray while we are at it.
for me the problem that has happened in rugby is that professional rugby has developed top down .. forgetting its origins.
Base Super 14 contracts are 100 000 … but neither NSW, Queensland or the ARU can find $7000 for an Aussie club championship …
The point is the two best club sides in Australia are where future Super 14 players are coming from! Im sure Melbourne will be sending some recruiters to watch.
Its even more ludicrous when you think about the fact that the super 14 teams go through more than $7000 worth of strapping tape a week.
I think one of the problems is player salaries … there is an agreement that x% of tv revenues go to the players (i think it is around 80 or 90%).
This agreement was made years ago when rugby first went professional .. the point is that the majority of pay tv revenues actually go to the players … not into ARU or state rugby bodies.
… I think 10% should be lopped off player salaries and put into development as at the moment the states and the ARU lack money for this,
For me the real problem is that the Super 14 teams have absolutely no responsability for player development. A star player comes through the school system and he is signed up.
A player stars in club rugby .. and he is signed up …
but unlike in rugby league .. where the clubs have Jersey fleg teams etc … that they use to develop talent .. there is little relationship between the franchises and the sydney and brisbane clubs.
Obviously Perth and Melbourne need to develop rugby in their own states .. but also align them to 2 or 3 brisbane and sydney 1st grade clubs each … the same for ACT. NSW is then aligned to the remaining clubs in sydney .. and qld those in brisbane. And give the state teams first right to sign a player from “their” aligned clubs … this would give the super 14 teams more responsability for development and make them more interested in spending money on it .. and helpong development … rather than simplying raiding clubs and buying in overseas talent as the reds and nsw have done recently.
February 13th 2010 @ 11:38am
Shodan said | February 13th 2010 @ 11:38am | Report comment
The only thing you got high above the crowd is your noses.
February 13th 2010 @ 1:39pm
John Ryan said | February 13th 2010 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
So your saying that more people support Rugby Union than support either Football or Rugby League,like to see your figures on that,I think you need to get out of the Rugby Church take a deep breath and look at where Rugby Union really is in Australia not where you and the lily gilders would like it to be.
February 13th 2010 @ 3:40pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:40pm | Report comment
nope, not saying that at all, won’t justify your comment with an explanation
February 13th 2010 @ 3:16pm
Realist said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:16pm | Report comment
“The strength of rugby is in its players and supporters, this is even high and above Rugby Leagues mob and Footballs crowd.” rugbyfuture
You should have saved that one for April the 1st!
February 13th 2010 @ 3:39pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
realist, thats your 7th post today, briniging another 10% of your contribution on rugby posts, lets recap
i ran up statistics on your registered comments under the “realist” username (wondering what the definition of a troller is)
75 comments
7 rugby league- 9%
[ (responses in league threads)
2 for rugby – 3%
1 AFL – 1.5%]
3 on Australian sport (general)- 4%
65 on rugby – 87%
this means that 4.5% of your comments are on League now.
so just finishing off, what was that troll definition anyone?
February 14th 2010 @ 9:54am
PastHisBest said | February 14th 2010 @ 9:54am | Report comment
Statistics are the last refuge of the insane, RF.
February 14th 2010 @ 11:35am
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 11:35am | Report comment
PHB, I thought it was inane, not insane?
February 14th 2010 @ 12:57pm
rugbyfuture said | February 14th 2010 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
well, my psych assessment before the HSC certainly seemed to think that too (that i was insane not that statistics are an indication of that)
February 13th 2010 @ 3:42am
Matt said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:42am | Report comment
This is a legitimate problem.
I wonder how commercial the clubs are now. What are they doing to grow their own revenue streams? Perhaps it is time to look to private equity.
February 13th 2010 @ 6:36am
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 6:36am | Report comment
The answers my friends are blowing in the wind. We need a split in the rugby camp.
We need to divide the professional arm from the amateur arm.
We need two different bodies to run the game.
The mungos have the same problem. That is why they are failing in their bid for an independent commission.
They can’t match the professional objectives of the NRL clubs to those of the ARL and QRL who have the grassroots interests at heart. The NSWRL are impotent, so I won’t even mention them.
No my friends, the ARU should run the Wallabies and the Super teams, and the rest of rugby including the schools and universities should be run by another body.
The amateur body should be paid by the ARU for every player they or a Super club signs and then a % from every future ARU/Super contract and a % from Wallabies and Super television and crowds.
I will stand for the position of President of the new Amateur Rugby Union Association of Australia, if you will have me.
Good day.
February 13th 2010 @ 8:34am
oikee said | February 13th 2010 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Good post Bay, i am just waiting for Siva to come on here and tell us all how strong rugby union is in Australia.
If you do your maths and look at it subjectively, you will realise that rugby league, with 16 teams, looking at moving towards 18 teams in Australia, plus a rise in the salary cap,? Where does that leave rugby union, not even to mention the AFL push into union heartlands, which are already rugby league heartlands, your being squeezed by 2 fronts, so dont put the total blame on rugby league. AFL is also squeezing you now in your very own private schools, and you are welcoming them with open arms. ? Go figure.
I would say after the rugby world cup in NZ next year, it will be dark times for rugby union in Australia, they might not even survive. I say this because the old boys are getting old and warey, England is ok just, the class system is still alive and well, but even as we speak, the walls are getting brittle, Sth Africa is now being split like a lemon, all codes can now poach and grow their games, AFL is even trying to take Sth Africa as you write this, they are slipping in through the back door, with not a wimper from Union.
If ever their was a saying that falls true, (you dug your grave)
February 14th 2010 @ 12:00pm
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 12:00pm | Report comment
Oikee, Always nice to see you death rising rugby. I actually think the S15 and RWC will help give Australian rugby a shot in the arm.
The point is the administrative levels need serious review and reform. Football suffered for years in this department, with infighting and factionalism that looks very familiar to rugby fans. It has only started to get its house in order in the last 10 years.
Rugby should do the same, the only question is how rickety the car gets before it gets the service. Rugby will stagger along, but the sooner we admit we have a problem the sooner we can fix it.
League and AFL have also had their problems, and come to grips with them.
Your one eyed analysis of rigby in England and SAF has been demolished before. I won’t waste my time recycling them.
February 15th 2010 @ 12:52am
Siva Samoa said | February 15th 2010 @ 12:52am | Report comment
i am just waiting for Siva to come on here and tell us all how strong rugby union is in Australia. – oikee
another professional rugby team for australia in 2011 is a sign of a code dying according to pipe smoking rugby league fan. when afl and rugby league have over 600,000 players in south africa then i’ll be worried but keep up the good work south africa rugby league to keep those rugby union players fit in the off season.
February 13th 2010 @ 8:51am
Jack Petro said | February 13th 2010 @ 8:51am | Report comment
B35P – there was a time when amateur rugby Clubs like Brothers and University didn’t have financial woes; or at least the punters didn’t know about it. I remember a Randwick v Brothers match in the 80s (yes a long time ago) and Coogee was top-to-bottom filled. would you get that today? Probably not. I think there were a fair few Wallabies running around that day, which compared to the 2010 version was like eating at a 5-star restaurant rather than the local kebab shop.
I can see your point but it isn’t the fault of the ARU, let alone the QRU. It is both financial and drawability of the playing stock. Tonight we have Queensland Red v the NSW Waratahs. There will be enough Brothers and Sydney Univeristy players in this match for both Premier Club unions to suggest this is the game that has been cancelled. Why spend $7,000 you don’t have when it’s going to be a bumper crowd (hopefully entertaining rugby) and a Tahs victory to boot.
I think by some of your other comments you suggest the ARU does nothing for grassroots rugby but then you talk about the QRU holding back ARU grants from clubs. Sorry, I don’t get it? In NSW, where I think the ARU has taken over a lot of what NSWRU previously did, we see their NSW employees dressed in Waratah kit through the S14 season then changing into Wallaby kit as soon as the Test series begin; the NSWRU has now started Waratahs Inc, a separate entity to run the professional arm of the game in NSW. I have no idea how the money flows back through each group into our clubs (etc), but I would suggest that they wouldn’t do it if it didn’t make for a better management of resources and funds; we never want an insolvent NSWRU again!
Anyway, have to go register the rug-rat for another season of club junior rugby … and that $130.00 registration fee doesn’t look like a lot of money compared to other sports either!
February 13th 2010 @ 10:32am
Jack Petro said | February 13th 2010 @ 10:32am | Report comment
Sorry … the $130 buys club registration which includes ARU insurance, drinks post-game each week, rugby shorts and socks, and a club polo. Now that’s good value.
If the Premier Club players are paying Club fees similar, how do they “pay” for their marquee players, coaches, etc. Look at Eastern Suburbs coaching staff for 2010 and I would suggest there’s a bit of money floating into having that team on the field; never mind the guys that did it last year for very little renumeration. That B35P, is the biggest problem of all – the outlandish payments of Premier Rugby club here and elsewhere, to ensure that they maintain their sponsorship and attractiveness for players. Why would you go to Penrith, Southern Districts or Northern Suburbs when other Clubs have the benefits and resources that they have?
Sheek … you talk about the ARU selling everything. I didn’t know they were – I thought they were supporting the game buy trying to ensure their financial viability. The Waratahs have 6 home games this year; that’s not a lot of income if you don’t get bums on seats. Next year it’s the World Cup, so the ARU will have reduced income. They are facts! How do we help? Well B35P is an example – attending Waratah matches; I wish I lived in Sydney and could attend but I will try my hardest. what about PayTV – well I haven’t got it but the Clubs do Sheek. That’s why I peester them to put the rugby on at least one of their little tubes; the more we, the punters, do this, the more they’ll take notice of our game.
February 13th 2010 @ 10:38am
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 10:38am | Report comment
The Waratahs are now a shelf company. All profits will be reinvested in Team Waratahs Inc, not the rugby structure that is bleeding and dying below it.
February 14th 2010 @ 12:02pm
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
Dan, that’s not how NSWRU has indicated it will work. However, the concern is that is how it will end up.
Properly it should become an at least self funding business unit, if not a profitable unit providing money to support the NSWRU development machine.
February 13th 2010 @ 10:59am
sheek said | February 13th 2010 @ 10:59am | Report comment
Jack,
Saying the ARU is selling everything is obvious hyperbole. Of course they’re not. We all help in our different ways. I bought pay-TV 14 years ago specifically to watch S12 matches. But I don’t enjoy watching rugby in general as much as I used to.
I’m waiting for the “new wave” of entertaining rugby to re-invigorate me!
And I’m not willing to be ripped off by stadia for tickets, drinks & food. They get me once, maybe twice a year, that’s it.
February 14th 2010 @ 12:06pm
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
Jack, club rugby was getting decent crowds as recent’y as the mid 1990s. However, the issue is that people see the top players in the Super 14 and Wallabies, andf feel like they don’t want to pay to see also rans in an amateur comp.
This arises out of the way the ARU approached professionalism in 1995. They obviously calculated they couldn’t take club rugby professional like Europe did, so they took the provincial sides and did it that way. The problem being the attention has all been on that and club rugby has been left to stagnate.
The biggest problem I have is the ARU and state unions no having an overall vision and plan, and seriously rejigging the sport to work better. Junior comps, schools comps, club land, etc. Why, because of the structure meaning the people who need to change hold the power and can stop it.
Rugby can’t operate properly as a professional and modern sport while the current structures stand. It’s like something out of the Raj, or the 1960s.
February 13th 2010 @ 9:13am
sheek said | February 13th 2010 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Dan,
You’re right. Right now, amateurism should start at Premier Rugby club level. But already the clubs are engaged in a potentially fatal, spiraling wages war for players & coaches.
They are being further screwed by government legislation which gives unfair tax breaks to the larger clubs & hotels in the community.
It’s ironic how when professionalism first came, we had all these people spruicking on about preserving the ethos of rugby. Many of these same people are selling everything they can get their hands on.
If you’re a marketeer, then Australian rugby is rife for your hair-brained schemes. The ARU is so desperate for cash, it is willing to sell everything (jerseys, naming rights, etc)!
Unfortunately, right now I don’t have too many answers. But I just wish a lot of rugby folk would stop pretending it’s all okay. Because it isn’t…..
February 13th 2010 @ 10:34am
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 10:34am | Report comment
Yes Sheek, I too well recall the amateur zealots of the early 1990s who changed their tune in 1995 and suddenly saw the gold-paved future for the game.
Where did all the television money go since 1995? Toss in the odd RWC bonanza too.
No doubt about it, no one gave a toss for tne game below the fulltimers of the Super 12-14.
The club game and juniors is in a worse state now than it was before 1995.
Why should volunteers and donors keep clubs going just to feed the professional ranks?
February 14th 2010 @ 12:07pm
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
“Where did all the television money go since 1995?” Into the Wallabies, Super teams, and the structures supporting them. Trying to keep up with the RL and AFL.
February 13th 2010 @ 12:12pm
Rickety Knees said | February 13th 2010 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
Great post Bay – trying to build a sport from the top down is fraught with danger. Australian Rugby is now paying the price for this short sightedness. No doubt JON will trumpet the new TV deal and the fact that next year there will be 20 local derbies in the new Super Rugby. There has been alot of speculation about how much the deal is worth but frankly I don’t care – all tiers of Rugby in Australia have to invest in creating a sustainable infrastructure, if Rugby is to survive. We are at a pivotal point in the history of the game in Australia.
February 13th 2010 @ 3:21pm
Jack Petro said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:21pm | Report comment
RK – the basic premise our our great game is that we develop a player pool and, hopefully, some of those players will wear our National colours. I doubt that the socalled ‘blame’ for the state of our game lies with JON and the ARU; it lies with the Premier Clubs, the bigger ‘Subbies’ clubs and the countless zone committees who pour money into their futile representative programs. I said it previously:
“The Waratahs have 6 home games this year; that’s not a lot of income if you don’t get bums on seats. Next year it’s the World Cup, so the ARU will have reduced income. They are facts!”
There is no “pot of gold” at the end of the rainbow BUT we have a great game, a lot of people that play and support it, plus we have 4 “local” teams in one of the best competitions on the planet. The fact that ‘other’ codes in Australia are vying for more TV-rights money than we can ever imagine changes the whole notion of funding in our game.
The problem is far bigger than we mere mortals can contemplate but I do think that if we rationally look at the big picture (as I’ve said in other posts), once the Wallabies hold the Webb Ellis Trophy after the next RWC, we might be in a better position than we think we are!
February 13th 2010 @ 3:36pm
Midfielder said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:36pm | Report comment
I may seem I am wishing to gloat … but I mention this because it is only now football is doing something about it … and we have a very strong grass roots…
Both Football & Union share a common burden of the media dominance of the NRL & AFL… I accept Union less so but we do share this..
Football even with a 17 million dollar media deal only is investing heaps of money into grass roots and elite junior development… to explain what has been done over the last 4 years…
* A national system of choosing rep players. (we never had this before)
* The setting up of a U 14 national side. (meaning 9 national teams)
* The establishment of U 13 & U 14 state sides to support the U 14 national side.
* Creation of a syllabus for national training for all ages from U 7 to U 18.
* Implementation of the above training system where 3 levels of training have been determined i.e., 7 to 10, 11 to 14, 15
to 18 .
* The training of 20 specialist junior coaches to coach in the above program. (former Socceroos & A-League players)
* Identification of the top 80 players in Australia from 7 to 18, to be cared and nurtured in the above program.
* The establishment of a youth league under each A-League club, with a salary cap of $ 450, 000, plus one marquee player.
* The establishment of the W-League, this greatly helps many things when it comes to TV ratings and getting local parks.
* Most A-League teams now setting up elite training academies, and often using those players in A-League matches, last night the Mariners ran on to the field with four youth players and another youth player on the bench…
All of this has been put in place to support the A-League teams, who in turn will support the national teams.
When I look at RU I don’t see any funds earned from the national side poured back into grassroots development… In Football it is the money earned from Socceroo home matches, Socceroo sponsorship that is put / poured / back into funding the development of the above…
I see RU spending all it earns on its own national and Super sides …. Why not spend half and put the other half back into the park teams…
February 13th 2010 @ 4:55pm
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 4:55pm | Report comment
Do the Socceroos get paid for playing for Australia? Or do they get paid so much by their clubs that it they do it for love?
The ARU has to pay the Wallabies from the ARU’s income or the players will hire a plane to Europe.
February 13th 2010 @ 5:27pm
Midfielder said | February 13th 2010 @ 5:27pm | Report comment
Dan
The Socceroos get paid for playing for Australia … its worked out between the Players Association and the FFA…. But it is not a small amount of money… by the standards of their European Clubs it may be small BUT they calculate the gate money and the sponsorship money…
I understand the ARU has to pay for the Wallabies and the Super sides… however do they have to pay as much…
I sometimes get the feeling that the ARU seem more happy to say the Super players get paid more than the RL players .. than to make the amounts smaller and invest the difference in developing the game..How do you think football kept growing its grass roots in in the bad times Football invested every single cent it had in juniors…
Further step in when things at the grass roots are just plain stupid and push non rusted on hard core union people away .. like the break at park football level mid season for the private schools to play and you loose half your team for almost half the season…
Or do even more stupid things like not having weight / age divisions… meaning you get SAW’s (Slight & White) up against Island Boys … so many times I have seen a mother of a SAW never return when her son is lined up against a boy many times bigger and stronger … and to add salt to the wounds say things like if he could learn how to tackle right … remember the bigger they are the harder they fall…
My life experience of park rugby is mixed … the people are great … they are to good actually because they put up with all sorts of issues, parents of other codes would not… But the management and development of RU in non existing areas is almost non existence… A perfect example I got talking to a guy once at a football match for kids… we got talking and he said he grew up where I live… I said I through you would be into rugby… ARRRRR he sighted I would love too … BUT in the Hills it is so hard even to find a club close by never mind a team.. so my kids play Football…
Dan like Sheek I cry for the lost opportunities, for those rugby people who leave areas were rugby is catered for to new areas in Sydney were it is non existence… that my friend is sad very sad.. because they never come back they find something new to put their energy in… they will watch the national team but little else…
February 13th 2010 @ 5:52pm
Dan Dresden said | February 13th 2010 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Thanks for explaining the Socceroos workings.
You don’t paint a very positive feeling about rugby. Let’s say that the ARU cuts the $ to the players, won’t then the Wallabies be picked off by overseas clubs and even the NRL? The draw of wearing a Wallabies jersey must be strong, but will that alone keep the bulk of the Wallabies happy?
I never really thought about before, but if the ARU didn’t pay more than the NRL clubs, then RU in Australia could collapse as a viable sport.
The ARU is probably fortunate that the NRL clubs have a salary cap and the NRL doesn’t get the tv money that the AFL does and that the NSW government has hammered the Leagues Clubs via their taxes.
So the ARU can’t afford to cut the $ to the top Wallabies squad to put more money into the amateur and Shute Shield clubs. I can’t see an easier answer for the ARU, but the odds on the NRL being flush with funds again is a long way off.
February 14th 2010 @ 11:54am
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Midfielder,
This is exactly the focus rugby needs, and is clearly lacking.
February 13th 2010 @ 3:43pm
rugbyfuture said | February 13th 2010 @ 3:43pm | Report comment
I think they’re working upto it but JON is trying to financially stabilise the Unions first. Remember JON brought about alot of that stuff you put there, hopefully he’ll do it with Rugby.
February 13th 2010 @ 6:44pm
Midfielder said | February 13th 2010 @ 6:44pm | Report comment
RF
There have been two separate and distinct periods in Football after the Crawford report being the JON era & the Ben Buckley (BB} era . These things are never as clear cut as I will post here as there is always overlap… But JON set up the A-League ..
After successfully selling the bid to key stakeholders and FFA power brokers, JON work was only half done. His next task was selling the product of A-League football to Australian public much more inclined towards Rugby League, Rugby Union & AFL, and one which had never had Football as major sporting code or a important team.
Then he set up the national team and showed how to sell national matches to state governments… excellent work there is no doubt… Then came making the A-League work a national domestic competition… he was found wanting in this area… Thus an agreed parting of the ways…
In comes BB who is experienced in the AFL Australia’s most successful domestic competition … without any disrespect intended JON found it difficult to develop the domestic competition with the size of the junior league, the power in the state based associations and the district associations…. BB coming from Melbourne and from AFL far better understands this and how the AFL & NRL run their domestic competition and what they will do to affect Footballs growth .. JON does not process this experience…
So I do question your point that JON understands how to develop a strong domestic competition … he is a master at Super level and up… but at Park level I have my doubts…
February 14th 2010 @ 11:53am
Bay35Pablo said | February 14th 2010 @ 11:53am | Report comment
Sounds like we now need to nick Buckley ….
February 13th 2010 @ 5:22pm
sheek said | February 13th 2010 @ 5:22pm | Report comment
Wonderful article in today’s The Australian magazine about the Rebels. It’s never been satisfactorally explained why the ARU were so anti-VRU for the license.
Thank God the Vics overcame the death-riding of the ARU, & well as sticking with the nickname Rebels. Getting back to Dan Dresden’s earlier comment, the Wallabies & super rugby might in future be controlled by the ARU (professional arm), with the club rugby down to juniors run by the state bodies (amateur with perhaps semi-professionalism in the future).
This I believe, is how football is run in Australia. Their model seems to be progressing satisfactorally.
With all this in mind, provincial rugby at the highest level is dead, or will be dead in the near future. The future Melbourne Rebels should be joined by the Sydney Waratahs, Brisbane Reds, Canberra Brumbies & Perth Force.
This also opens the way further down the track for the introduction of teams from West Sydney, Gold Coast & the like.