We need a local FA Cup, but it must be done well
By Davidde Corran, 30 Apr 2010 Davidde Corran is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- A-League, FFA, football, Football Federation Australia, Socceroos
There’s been some well-written prose in the last few months on why Football Federation Australia not just should, but MUST adopt a national cup competition.
As this discussion has been going on for some time now, I’m not going to re-list those arguments here, but I think there is hope that FFA will start looking at this idea again.
I say that because the main reason FFA have continued to turn a deaf ear to the public’s calls for cup football is that they’ve been otherwise occupied with their 2018/22 World Cup bid and I think that may be coming to an end.
Ben Buckley has been forced into turning his attention back onto the A-League again following the collapse of Queensland’s two expansion clubs.
With the most logistically demanding part of the World Cup bid now wrapping up, once the bid book is submitted, it all comes down to political wrangling, FFA employees should have time on their hands to work on matters closer to home.
Lord knows we need them to.
So with there being every chance that FFA will look at the idea of a national cup competition again over the coming months, I say to them: Beware!
Right now I’m in Washington D.C. to interview Danny Allsopp and Lisa De Vanna. On Wednesday evening, I had the pleasure of attending RFK Stadium where Allsopp’s DC United defeated FC Dallas 4-2 in the US Open Cup.
All I can say is, what a disaster. There were a pitiful 2,000 fans in attendance, almost no media presence, and not even those 6 goals could save this game.
It had me thinking that FFA must ensure that the creation of any similar competition in Australia doesn’t turn out the same way.
From looking closely at the main factors that led to the poor crowd and general disinterest in Wednesday night’s game, we can learn a lot.
First of all, the scheduling was all wrong.
While FFA insist on not allowing the A-League to clash with the other football codes, mid-week football will be inevitable. That’s not what led to a drop of around 15,000 on DC United’s average attendance last night, however.
The reason for the empty stadium was the Washington Capitols were playing game seven in the playoffs at the same time.
Considering that there was Cup football on the night before, the question is, why didn’t US Soccer change the fixture to Tuesday?
Furthermore, both teams put out weakened sides. There just isn’t the prestige in competing in the early stages of a knockout cup competition when you’re also battling in your league. A similar problem is leading to the corrosion of interest in England’s apparently “magical” FA Cup.
FFA must ensure that clubs who are in the tournament want to win it.
Even more alarming for the state of the US Open Cup is the lack of a national TV deal. Even more so than back home, in the US if your sport isn’t on TV, then it might as well not exist.
Without any television presence you can’t reach out to the mainstream.
As many on this site have already discussed, a lack of Free to Air TV exposure is one of the main problems facing the A-League. Not only must a cup competition avoid that trap, it can help to rectify the A-League’s lack of presence on FTA.
Now, despite these warnings, I’m a big supporter of an FFA Cup. I believe it’s imperative for the growth of the game. Furthermore, any significant point of difference to the NRL and AFL should be exploited to its fullest and this is one of those opportunities.
However, Ben Buckley, if you’re going to do this, do it properly.
I’d hate to see FFA muck up a perfectly good idea like they have done with A-League expansion.
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rovingto2011 said | April 30th 2010 @ 8:11am | Report comment
A Cup comp has to mean something… an ACL spot on offer ideally. And i’d make the Cup Final as the last game of the year, maybe have the 1/4s, semis and final after the final day of the league season. The Australia Cup in place of the ‘semi-finals’ … a knockout cup series is preferable to what’s there now imo.
Fivehole said | April 30th 2010 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Agree on the ACL spot, but Aussies love their semis too much – and when you look at the crowds that the ‘nix pulled, i don’t see them going anywhere soon
Football Person 2 said | April 30th 2010 @ 3:25pm | Report comment
I hope your not referring to ‘Aussies’ loving the final series.
If you are im getting pretty tired at the notion that ‘Aussies’ love the finals format, im an ‘Aussie’, been one all my life, yet finals are the gayest piece of bull pie to have ever been spawned………. pretty much sums it up
tho if your not referring to that, good day
mahony said | May 3rd 2010 @ 2:10pm | Report comment
I hate em and I’m an Aussie! – by jingo’s by crikey!
wallythefly said | April 30th 2010 @ 8:29am | Report comment
Balancing between ACL and A-League is already a big problem, what would the FFA Cup do? I’d love to see it but is there time in the season?
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Scap the A-League finals and replace it with the business end of the FFA Cup. Or, shorten the A-League finals i.e. make it a top 4 with 1 v. 4 and 2 v. 3 meeting in the final (1 and 2 have home ground advantage).
Australian Football said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:44am | Report comment
Good suggestion Keeper; the final series should be all about winning the last spot for the ACL. I have suggested it should be short and sweet. The now Prem-Plate winners should “not be involved” at all as they are the real Champions and so leave it for the next last four teams (2 plays 5; 4 plays 3 then the final) play-offs for the “Last ACL spot–final”. Give it whatever name you like, but definitely not Champions.
_____
AF
Australian Football said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:55am | Report comment
Just to add—the FFA Cup will then fit in beautifully and be a success…
NathFC said | April 30th 2010 @ 2:13pm | Report comment
I believe they do as similar thing in Holland with the last UEFA place.
mahony said | May 3rd 2010 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
Does anyone know ‘off hand’ if they integrate the MLS Cup into the league and ‘play off’ for a continental place in the same way? I like the idea – an in particular the way it pays respect to the real champions.
Rob said | April 30th 2010 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
totally agree ……..preliminary rounds played during the regular season…..A-league clubs seeded into the final 4/5 rounds which commence after the league is completed. 1 + 2nd place in the league placed into opposite sides of the draw so that they can only meet in the final…lets do it
Australian Football said | April 30th 2010 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
Apologies TheMagnificent11 for the wrong name (“Keeper”)
tonyabbottisawesome said | April 30th 2010 @ 8:31am | Report comment
but if your challenging for the league then you would focus on that rather than risk injuring your players for the cup comp ie same problem in england.
i say have it finish early like january (australia day?) that way it is not drowned out buy other sporting codes and if an acl spot is up for grabs every team will try to win it to ensure an early qualification
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 8:34am | Report comment
The FFA Cup should be played on the grounds of State League clubs. A couple of thousand would create a good atmosphere. The Cup should not be a prestigious competition, but rather a goodwill gesture so football in this country can unite as one. Get rid of the politics.
Also I don’t think it needs that great a media coverage. Leave that for the a-league comp. My vision would be one of 4,000 to 5,000 supporters cramming into a state league ground with an unbelievable atmosphere. It would be mostly hardcore football supporters who would probably attend this.
Tom said | April 30th 2010 @ 9:42am | Report comment
I don’t think the A-league are about to scrap the finals series, so until we get a third ACL spot (a fair way away, I should think) we probably can’t give a spot to the Cup winners. Which makes it hard to get excited about.
I agree that the comp should wind up in about January. Maybe even earlier. That would allow the State league teams to play the early rounds through their season, and the later rounds post-season should they make it.
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 10:00am | Report comment
The first few rounds of the cup competition should be played at the home grounds of the state leagues clubs. That will mean no ground rental costs for the FFA. Tickets should be $5 for juniors, students and seniors and $10 for adults in these early rounds. I would rather have a packed local ground than an empty stadium. And, it will be packed if an A-League club is playing a state league club. Furthermore, gives the FFA a chance to showcase the A-League to fans (and their children) who attend state league games but don’t bother with the A-League.
When the cup gets to say the quarter finals, then A-League stadiums should be used. By that point you’re likely to have mainly A-League teams left anyway. So it’ll be like a finals game with a finals atmosphere.
JamesP said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:28am | Report comment
What a ridiculous idea. Who is going to play in this cup? South Melbourne Hellas v Melbourne Craotia? Get my drift? Without a propoer promotion relegation system, the cup would be a joke. And that is a long way from happening…
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:49am | Report comment
Exactly. Most states already have a cup competition. So the semi-finalists of the state cups should go into the draw with A-League clubs for the FFA Cup. So A-League clubs get a free ride into the round of 16 (or even round of 32). The bigger state league clubs get some decent crowds to their games already. Imagine how many they’d pull to their local ground if they were playing an A-League club. It’s good chance to connect with “old soccer” and win some new fans for the A-League.
You wouldn’t bother playing at A-League stadium until the business end of the cup (say quarter finals). The cup comp is great chance to take football back to the heartland e.g. western Sydney and the migrant areas of Melbourne.
Australian Football said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:57am | Report comment
Yes indeed—that would be the the way to go about it.
mahony said | May 3rd 2010 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
+1
MelbCro said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:33am | Report comment
nah actualy i don’t get your drift. Its not a very good drift at all
whiskeymac said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:34am | Report comment
as much as i wld like to see an FFA Cup a lot more work needs to be done on the HAl proper before contemplating another competition. too much too soon will see it being discredited in its first inception and struggle thereon in.
ACL prize maybe – or maybe just a cash prize?!? how about $1million to the winner – HAL clubs and other teams cld certainly use it, its tangible and wont end up costing them (ie an ACL spot is a money loss unless you reach the latter satges…. imagine if a club won the FFA Cup and their “prize” burdened them with debt).
Cld the FFA sow the TV rights (if any are forthcoming, and which will be necessary to fund this fancy, they will most likely come for Fox which gets pilliored by many despite being the only TV channel to be prepared to pay for the rights. SBS might be an option but is the media exposure SBS offer a marked improvement on Fox?) back into the comp to see if it cld finance itself maybe? the cost of an FFA cup will be veryhigh you’fd think with travel arrangents across the continent hard (the continent being Australia not Asia =))
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 11:54am | Report comment
Forget ACL prizes and TV deals. Just put on a cup competition where a-league teams play in the suburbs against state league teams. Where steak sandwiches and a can of soft drink will cost you 5 or 6 dollars. Where entry is 10 dollars.
To many suits running the game at the moment who are just interested in money deals. If you make this some shiny new cup comp it will fail. Get back to what the fabric of football is about. Agree though need to do it properly and take time.
Play the competiton between March and May after the the a-league finishes. June / July can then be a rest period.
whiskeymac said | April 30th 2010 @ 1:20pm | Report comment
sounds like the pre season cup…
The fact is it will cost the clubs money. they need to cover this cost somehow. fuzzy feelings won’t cover the cost of realising the cup, especially when clubs are pretty much all losing money. What’s the point playing HAl games against the burbs – they did that last preseason – it’s not a national Cup then but just a a local PR exercise.
but i guess it comes down to what point is the cup going to serve? there is no point having one just for the sake of having one and because it works(worked) well in England last century.
What s the FFA hoping to achieve – media exposure/ reconnection with NSL clubs/ a new comp to test the fringe squad players?
Sam said | April 30th 2010 @ 1:32pm | Report comment
Pre-season cup never involved state league teams. This is a cup with a bridge to all football communities in Australia. Playing at state league grounds barely costs much. I think the state league teams would appreciate getting money from gate receipts, and the a-league teams would appreciate the exposure of their team to migrant coommunities and people living in the suburbs.
Sydney FC recently did a pre season playing throughout Sydney against several state league teams. This is the correct way to do things in my opinion. The Sydney FC name gets more known every year.
Trying to make the cup something big from the beginning puts too much pressure on it. Let it grow organically. I think the connection in football from the bottom tier to the top tier is what makes it so strong. I would name the cup the Johnny Warren Cup. Throw in a sponsor if needed.
Dan said | June 10th 2010 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
This is true about sydney last year, and was fantastic for the community…
where this falls down is who they are playing this year… Blackburn, Rangers and AEK Athens
last year was more out of neccessity… Vit wanted to see his new players play a large number of games before the season, the opposition was really not the point
Jado said | April 30th 2010 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
Didn’t the AFC say recently that we (i.e. Aus) would get a third ACL spot if we get a cup comp up and running?
apaway said | April 30th 2010 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
There have been various attempts at a National Cup competition but basing it on a model similar to the English FA Cup is dangerous, due to the vast distances involved. Let’s say a NSW lower division State League club defied the odds, got a great run of results and made it to the last 16, then drew Adelaide or Perth away. The club could not afford to send a team unless the FFA were prepared to meet the costs (admirable but unlikely). But to “manipulate” the draw to ensure a pre-determined set of match-ups and venues takes away the element that makes most cup competitions compelling.
Also remember that until the advent of the Champion’s League and unbeholden greed of the top European clubs, the FA Cup was the climax to the English season, and was the “trip to Wembley” for 2 sides that made it something to aspire to. Would an Australian version have a pre-determined finals venue or would it be a home and away affair?
And how do you get over the fact that State and A-League seasons are run at different times of the year?
Who would be involved? Does each State run a preliminary competition with say the final 4 or 8 going into a main draw? This might work OK, but would once again need a lot of financial support from the FFA because many State League clubs could not afford the travel costs of an interstate trip.
TheMagnificent11 said | April 30th 2010 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
There is an overlap in the season. I’d suggest the state cup semi-finalist from the previous season go into the draw for the FFA Cup. The FFA Cup can be played between January and May. I know the BPL in Brisbane starts in late February and most of those clubs start pre-season in October/November.
Also, if a state league club gets into the business end and has to travel, the FFA should foot the bill. I assume the FFA Cup is going to have a sponsor. So the sponsorship dollars should cover these costs.
Rob said | April 30th 2010 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
It doesnt cost that much to fly around oz and the old fund raising drive is really good for community engagement. i reckon you keep the sponsors cash for prizemoney.
Dan said | June 10th 2010 @ 12:22pm | Report comment
aren’t they the QANTAS socceroos? sponsorship people… the ffa don’t actually PAY for this stuff… qantas plaster their name all over everything and the clubs get flown around as PIK.