Wallabies start their tour with a great flourish
By Spiro Zavos, 1 Nov 2010 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
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Australia Wallabies players celebrate after they defeated New Zealand All Blacks in the DHL Hong Kong Bledisloe Cup rugby match in Hong Kong Saturday, Oct. 30, 2010. Australia won 26-24. (AP Photo/Vincent Yu)
The Hong Kong Bledilsoe Cup Test (surely the last for many years) was an enthralling match which could have had several different outcomes, other than the 26 Australia – 24 New Zealand result.
The Wallabies could have won with a cricket score.
They piled 12 points on the board, early on in the Test. Then missed four penalties, admittedly the ones taken by Kurtley Beale were from a long way out. As well, they bombed several tries in this period. One of them, a breakout by Beale (who was sensational once again at fullback) which the All Blacks somehow smothered and then snuffed out.
A try then and the All Blacks were gone.
They were being penalised by the referee Alain Rolland at scrum time, even though their scrum was dominant. They were making elementary handling mistakes. Their lineout, once again under the coaching of Steve Hansen, was a shambles.
But the Wallabies did not put the All Blacks away and after about 25 minutes they slowly and surely began to smash through the weak (especially Quade Cooper and Mark Chisholm) Wallaby defence. Before and after halftime they piled on 24 unanswered points.
A 40-point All Blacks scoreline was on the cards.
Then with the score line 24 – 12 and about 20 minutes of play left, Graham Henry pulled off Daniel Carter. Carter was playing within himself. He had tried only once to take the line on. But he seemed to have plenty of gas left in his tank. On came Stephen Donald to lose the game for the All Blacks.
There is a curious thing about coaches in that they have favourite players, even when these players fail to deliver. Donald is one of those players for Henry, as is Iaisa Toeava. Both these players made fateful mistakes which allowed the Wallabies to come back and score the two converted tries they needed to win the Test.
Toeava slipped over after misreading a brilliant back movement, which involved a spot-on long cut-out pass from Cooper and a number of runners off the ball. Once again Mils Miliaiana was out of position (he, too, surely can’t be retained in the starting XV next year?) and Drew Mitchell finished off in grand fashion.
Then Donald put in his ludicrous grubber kicks inside his own 22, missed a kickable penalty, and then kicked for distance rather than deep for touch with 79 minutes and 39 seconds on the clock! Richard Loe was right in the NZ Herald when he said all four number 10s in the ITM semi-finals in New Zealand (three of them teenagers and Slade) are better players right now than Donald.
While all this was happening, with the Wallabies storming back into the Test with Mitchell’s try, the All Blacks once again showed they have no idea (other than trying to score a try) on closing out games.
They were leading by 5 points with about six minutes to go when they moved the ball in a series of crunching runs from lineout drives from their own half to metres away from the Wallaby tryline.
Why didn’t they set up a drop goal? This would have closed out the Test and if it missed they would have got the ball back for another, and another, attempt.
If they had to lose a Test, this was a good Test for the All Blacks to lose.
They got the ‘peaking too soon’ monkey off their backs. If the selectors are smart they will know that next year the failed players in the backline will have to be discarded for the brilliant young talent. This is a big ‘if’, of course.
For the Wallabies, there was the satisfaction of actually finishing off a Test strongly and winning it by scoring more points in the second half than the All Blacks. This is only the third Test out of 83 the All Blacks have lost after being in front at halftime. The Test before was the semi-final at Cardiff in RWC 2007 when the drop kick option was left until it was too late.
The Wallabies have entrenched their position as number 2 side in world rugby, with justifiable pretensions for the number 1 position.
Robbie Deans is no longer under any pressure (in my view he never really was) to ‘get results’ while he was trying to build up a squad from the rubble of RWC 2007 and with a group of players, especially in the tight five, who aside from Benn Robinson, are not quality Test players.
So the scrum remains a worry.
The try Mitchell scored came from a Wallaby scrum that was re-set three times. Will another referee be as tolerant to the Wallaby scrumming problems as Rolland was on this occasion?
The lineout, too, disintegrated during the match to the extent that near the end of the Test the Wallabies opted to tap a penalty outside the All Blacks 22 rather than kick for a lineout near their tryline.
There has been talk about some of the injured players automatically coming back into the Wallaby pack next season. James Horwill will, probably.
But forget about Wycliff Palu. Ben McCalman is the find of the season. He reminds me a lot of Tim Gavin, of blessed memory.
With Rocky Elsom coming back into form and David Pocock’s fearless digging for turnovers, the Wallabies have a terrific back row, one that matches almost the All Blacks and the Springboks.
The small backline was brilliant on attack. It is not often you see two tries from about 50m out directly from scrums.
Cooper is a bit like a honey pot for defenders. They swarm all over him trying to shut down his tricks. But this leaves gaps for his outside backs when they run on to his pin-point passes. If the defenders try to cover the other runners Cooper has the speed to cut through as he did to score his try.
James O’Connor announced himself as the new Shane Williams. He is smallish and muscular. His defence is strong. And his broken field running makes him very dangerous when he gets mismatches.
Somehow on defence, Deans has to put in a system that puts O’Connor into Cooper’s position because the number 10 channel is virtually a sea-way for attackers to flood through. Of course, Cooper could learn how to tackle. But there has been no improvement this season even when this weakness in his play has been identified.
With his two conversions at the death, which effectively won the match, O’Connor showed that he rather than Matt Giteau should be the starting goal-kicker.
The position of Giteau, in fact, deserves some attention from Deans. It may be that if Berrick Barnes can get his Donald-like mania for kicking away possession out of his game, he is the best five-eighths partner to Cooper.
Having started the tour with a flourish, the Wallabies now have to show that they can put a series of Test wins together.
They have Wales on Saturday night. Will we see (as I expect) the new Wallabies putting together another strong performance? Or will we see … but let’s not go there while the euphoria of Hong Kong still remains a strong memory.
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November 1st 2010 @ 6:47am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 6:47am | Report comment
Don’t know if it is just me, but I was quite unimpressed with McCalman. I’m not sure he’s a Test player, let alone a Test 8. Bearing in mind 8 is such technical position, and given that the Australian pack has been so erratic this season, and given that McCalman is both young and doesn’t play 8 for the Force I would have thought it more fair to place Elsom temporarily at 8, so as to let McCalman find his feet if he is considered a long-term prospect.
I don’t think McCalman is quick enough or powerful enough to be 8, but he has grit. With Elsom playing like he was prior to his time in Leinster the Australian back row lacks dynamism. I’d like to see either McCalman at 6 and Higginbotham at 8, or Elsom and Higginbotham in the same side. I don’t think the back row is balanced at the moment.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:10am
Brett McKay said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:10am | Report comment
Mr S, McCalman trailed Pocock and Elsom in this game, I would agree, but I thought he was still pretty strong around the park, both in attack and in the ruck and clean-out. In fact, because Chisholm was quiet (again) McCalman was doing a lot of the clean-out work you’d expect your locks to be doing. He had the blemish of Jimmy Cowan’s try, admittedly, and it was obvious he and Sharpe thought the other one had him.
I do wonder though if it might be a case of McCalman not being as noticeable in Honkers because he was everywhere in Sydney (by comparison)? Hard to say. Different people see things differently, but I thought he was pretty good once again, and certainly any concerns about the No.8 spot are quickly disappearing with McCalman there..
November 1st 2010 @ 7:21am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:21am | Report comment
Agreed about Chisholm, Brett, although I wasn’t sure if that was because he was doing the unseen work, or if he was resorting to old tricks, i.e. playing rugby with an invisibility cloak on.
I’ll pay closer attention to McAlman on the coming tour, but I think he is quite limited; not particularly big, not particularly fast or athletic or a strong lineout option. That said, he is young and not a regular non-Test 8, and bearing in mind what we think about Chisholm you may well have a point. One thing that did cross my mind is that if Elsom is not carrying as he used to then the fact that McAlman isn’t a particularly dominant presence becomes quite pronounced. I’ll keep my peepers peeled and report back. I’m looking forward to seeing Higginbotham in action, I’ll be watching him too.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:57am
Brett McKay said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:57am | Report comment
How a guy who’s played 50 Tests can still be a game-by-game proposition (or can play in an invisibility cloak, as you so aptly describe it) is beyond my comprehension, I’m afraid, Ben. Chisholm played possibly his best game ever for the Wallabies in Sydney, yet next game, here he is again. Or isn’t, as you say.
Anyway, McCalman’s played 3 Tests and would already appear to be a good distance in front of Richard Brown as a No.8, which considering the Force also have Pocock and Hodgson in their backrow ranks, is going to make some interesting selection meetings in Perth next season.
Do indeed keep an eye on him though, ‘cos he’s won a lot of fans down this way….
November 1st 2010 @ 8:03am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:03am | Report comment
Personally, I think Chisholm’s problem is that he has never nailed down a specific slot. He is big, fast and athletic, but is he a stereotypical 4 lock, an athletic 5 lock or an overgrown 6? What role has he defined as his own?
Aside from Higginbotham I am particularly excited about seeing some fringe Wallabies (Daley & Simmons especially) get 80 minutes during the mid-week matches. These games are a real treat for fans over on your side and over here too. Such a shame there’s so few mid-week games these days.
November 1st 2010 @ 8:19am
Brett McKay said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:19am | Report comment
yeah agree Ben. I recall someone raising the idea of him being worth a go at No.8, and perhaps that’s got some merit, considering his size and under-used athleticism, but at the same time, how many chances does a guy deserve.
Anyway, looking forward to the Spring (Autumn) Tests, there’s something enjoyable about coming home from a day on the cricket field and being able to watch the rugby!!
November 1st 2010 @ 8:22am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:22am | Report comment
‘at the same time, how many chances does a guy deserve.’
Agreed.
‘Anyway, looking forward to the Spring (Autumn) Tests, there’s something enjoyable about coming home from a day on the cricket field/freezing cold English winter and being able to watch the rugby!!’
Agreed.
November 1st 2010 @ 1:22pm
Hoy said | November 1st 2010 @ 1:22pm | Report comment
He played 8 in Australian under 19s. I think.
November 1st 2010 @ 3:32pm
mudskipper said | November 1st 2010 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
I think Deans likes his locks to do the hard be the ruck, maul pillars and carry out the lineout duties.. and not much more… Chisholm was told a few years ago if he wanted to be a test player he had to focus on these tasks first… So you’re not going to see a lot of ball running from him when he is focussing on covering the clean out.
November 1st 2010 @ 8:24am
scottmit said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:24am | Report comment
I made the comment on McCalman’s debut that Elsom suddenly looked like the player he ought, which i took to be because he seemed to trust McCalman to do his job closer in. Still think that’s the case.
November 1st 2010 @ 4:12pm
John P said | November 1st 2010 @ 4:12pm | Report comment
yeah I think you are right on with your comment Sconttmit, the best thing about the McCalman/Elsom combination is the degree of trust that allows Rocky to roam around the field because he can trust McCalman in the tighter stuff.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:48am
Short-Blind. said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:48am | Report comment
Geez guys I think your being a little harsh on McCalman. He is only 22 and playing in his 3rd run on test against the best team in the world. Technically he has still to learn a lot about no 8 play (surprise, surprise he has played little top level rugby in this position). I thought he showed OK pace in Sydney to bust the AB defence, sprint away and put JOC into the corner. At 22 he is still growing and those raw country bones have still a way to go. He has brought much needed mongrel and attitude to the Wallaby back row and his defence and clean out work in the tight have made a big impact. I think he will blossom on this tour and is the ‘best we’ve got’ at present for 8. Agree Higginbotham needs a run. I would play McCalman for 55-60 in the next test and then bring on Higgers for impact.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:04am
Poth Ale said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:04am | Report comment
Agreed Ben. I don’t get the plaudits flowing McCalman’s way – he doesn’t have the dynamism or impact of a number of other 8s such as Read, Harinordoquy, Heaslip and Parisse.
What’s your view on how the reffing situation is going to work out at scrum time and breakdown for next week? Barnes, Poite and Owens for the Wales, England and Ireland matches next week will be an all-NH affair. After that, it’s a mix and match for rest of the AI matches.
Will Poite be as punctilious as Rolland or maybe more so for the England game? He hates players talking to him. Will this work in England’s favour if the McCaw charm offensive runs into a brick wall?
Ireland are more used to Owens than SA and Barnes will be familiar to both Wales and Australia.
November 1st 2010 @ 1:06pm
Cliff (Bishkek) said | November 1st 2010 @ 1:06pm | Report comment
Pot Ale & Ben S – What a lot of rubbish – McCalman has the ability and has shown his wares to be a very good number 8. Pot Ale I think you have been drinking too much of the “Ale” while watching.
McCalman in both tests against the ABs has done his job magnificently and has shown that Brown is to be selected as a “Non Member” of the 22.
Brett is right on – McCalaman was doing a lot of the work that should have been shared with Chisholm – who was every where BUT TOTALLY NOWHERE on the FIELD. Chisholm should have been axed a long time ago. But our lock stocks have not allowed the chance to replace Chisholm – although I thought that Deans had made that decision some many months ago – but bought him back because of injuries.
Deans is nursing Simmons and Higgenbottom – which I am 50/50 in agreement – because I think both (although both have had injuries) – but that should change this NH Tour.
But to say McCalman is not an 8 – give the kid time. And for all those Palau backers – I hope he has developed because for a long time – with his size – he was a pussy as a Number 8. He has shown some aspects of now using his size since his Mother called him soft – BUT LET US HOPE HIS SUPPOSEDLY NEW FOUND TOUGHNESS IS LASTING.
McCalman will do for me rather than Brown – but also remember – Higgenbottom is not a Number 8 either – and he tends to play wide – great talent if he can unleash it at Test Level but needs to become tighter.
As I said on another thread – Wallabies can do without these players in their 22 – Mumm, Brown, Chisholm & Giteau, Maafu and even though good of late – Mitchell’s time is numbered?
November 1st 2010 @ 2:12pm
Bruiser said | November 1st 2010 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
Cliff, i am so with you regarding your last paragraph. One can only hope!
November 1st 2010 @ 9:06pm
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:06pm | Report comment
‘McCalman has the ability and has shown his wares to be a very good number 8′
No he hasn’t, Cliff. He’s played three Tests.
‘McCalman in both tests against the ABs has done his job magnificently’
That is a slight exaggeration, IMO.There was nothing magnificent in his performance the other day. What do you think his job is, and how does that relate to the back row as a unit? Surely if he was doing Chishom’s job then he wasn’t doing the job that he was intended to do prior to the match?
November 2nd 2010 @ 12:13am
Paul Brock said | November 2nd 2010 @ 12:13am | Report comment
I cannot understand the continued Giteau bashing on this website. Giteau might be an unreliable goalkicker, but he’s an excellent footballer. Given he came 2nd to Pocock in the John Eales medal voting, it seems apparent that his team mates value his contribution to the team.
November 3rd 2010 @ 2:13am
Forcefan said | November 3rd 2010 @ 2:13am | Report comment
Agreed Paul. While Giteau was relatively quiet, his runs and play without the ball certainly helped the team. Just because you don’t get your hands on the ball as a back does not mean you don’t make a contribution.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:11am
CraigB said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:11am | Report comment
I think the reffing will be fine. It did not look like a interpretation issue, just the Rolland was truly deplorable in his scrum calling and officiating. Both teams would go early (due to his ridiculous pauses between EVERY command) and he would just guess. At other times they would go and after they had at it for a second he would call engage as an after thought.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:14am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:14am | Report comment
I wouldn’t like to think what the refereeing will be like, Poth Ale. I’ve seen some wild fluctuations in Europe this season, especially now that the Aviva has foreign referees plodding about. I have a sneaking suspicion that the game is becoming too quick for some referees. I’ve seen too many snap calls this season whereby the player with the ball is not being given time to place it. We’ll just have to see how things work out on the day, I suppose. Sorry, a bit of a non-answer that.
Regarding Saturday, I was quite unimpressed generally with Rolland, but the state of the pitch was pretty poor, which must have been as hard for him as it was the players.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:15am
jokerman said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Spiro great article. Im a kiwi, and read with some nervousness! Henry does have his favourites, and the mistakes from Tuiava and Donald cost the match. Rokokoko is a another favourite. He never looks dangerous and makes mistakes. Defensivley he is out of his depth. Turning point was Carter coming off…I knew it, I think every Kiwi did. On a positive though as a Kiwi, nice to iron out these problems now, and take a bit of pressure off the All Blacks..peaking too soon etc…
November 1st 2010 @ 9:39am
southern Waratah said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:39am | Report comment
@ jokerman, my kiwi mate text me the same thing from Hong Kong, “At least we haven’t peaked”, I replied,
“No they have 2010 was it”.
Given Australia have just learnt this year how to close out a test & some of the AB players suggesting they were lucky in sydney, maybe in fact we have seen the AB’s at their best ?
Lets see how both teams go in the UK and comment in a few weeks eh? The Wallabies may have just peaked as well….
November 2nd 2010 @ 6:35am
Moaman said | November 2nd 2010 @ 6:35am | Report comment
How can Spiro claim that “once again the ABs showed they don’t know how to close a game out” and two breaths later”they have only lost 3 Tests of 83 after leading at halftime”(paraphrasing here)??? Seems a mite contradictory to me although I was also appalled at the tactics during those final frantic minutes.That turnover-THAT turnover,with 30 secs left on the clock…any self-respecting ITM side would have piled a couple more forwards into the ruck,run the clock down and then hoofed it direct into touch by the shortest route;End of story.Then the articles on the Roar today would be more lamentation about goal-kicking and appalling australian tactics in the 2nd half!
November 1st 2010 @ 7:20am
Willy said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:20am | Report comment
More than anything I am thrilled to see the ridiculous Deans doubters starting to be put firmly in their place.
He has been cooly and calmly building a side capable to winning the RWC in 2011 (and, if we’re being bullish, 2015 as well). It has not been an easy path – building something virtually from scratch never is – but he has kept the faith and maintained that his plan would work, and it’s becoming increasingly clear he’s right.
John O’Neill should be drafting up a new contract to take the Deans era through the Lions in 2013 and the 2015 RWC AT LEAST.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:25am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:25am | Report comment
Out of interest, what do you mean that Deans has built a side ‘virtually from scratch’, Willy? Cheers.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:43am
Willy said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:43am | Report comment
I mean it in much the same way as Spiro does, Ben.
The 2007 Wallabies were full of players who were has-beens or never-will-bes.
Deans has built virtually a brand new side, and he’s been courageous enough to do it around some outrageously talented young players.
It’s meant some losses along the way, but when this team learns to play for 80 minutes… look out!
November 1st 2010 @ 7:47am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:47am | Report comment
At all costs I don’t want to start another Deans debate, Willy, but Deans has been, and still is pretty reliant on the 2007 core which includes Robinson, Moore, Chisholm, Sharpe, Elsom, Palu, Barnes, Giteau, Mitchell and Ashley-Cooper. Consider that Deans also persevered with Baxter, Smith and Mortlock.
November 1st 2010 @ 1:44pm
Dan said | November 1st 2010 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
Baxter I’ll grant you. But bare in mind that Smith and Mortlock were still the top guys in their positions when Deans came in, and even then when he recognised the talent of guys like Pocock, O’Connor (a decision that made me eat my words, claiming he was too young for this level – happy to admit I didn’t have any clue how good the kid is), Ioane (FREAK! Just needs to stop getting hurt) and was willing to push Giteau out of 10 (all he needs to do now is push him to the bench).
The point is, he’s not been afraid to pick new blood and select a side that plays his kind of game (getting rid of Tuqiri is a good example – even if I think he still had something to offer).
November 1st 2010 @ 8:57pm
Colin N said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
Deans was the one who put Giteau at 10 in the first place.
He’s only blooded new players because he’s had to.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:09pm
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:09pm | Report comment
Dan, Pocock only truly confirmed the 7 shirt as his own when Smith retired.
I agree with Colin. Deans has been reluctant to go out and pick young players unless prompted, the exception to the rule being O’Connor, who improved drastically when put on the wing, and not at 15.
November 2nd 2010 @ 8:50am
Dan said | November 2nd 2010 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Actually as far as I could tell it was Pocock’s promotion that caused Smith to retire.
Other than that I can’t agree that he been reluctant to pick new players… sure he’s kept some old ones, but to me that’s simply a reflection of Australia’s lack of depth. The wallabies aren’t the kangaroos and so there’s not a string of alternatives that better than the incumbents. He’s changed the look of the team quite a bit since he’s come in. I honestly don’t think Cooper would have been given a go under Eddie or Connolley.
November 2nd 2010 @ 7:43pm
Ben S said | November 2nd 2010 @ 7:43pm | Report comment
‘Actually as far as I could tell it was Pocock’s promotion that caused Smith to retire.
Other than that I can’t agree that he been reluctant to pick new players… sure he’s kept some old ones, but to me that’s simply a reflection of Australia’s lack of depth. The wallabies aren’t the kangaroos and so there’s not a string of alternatives that better than the incumbents. He’s changed the look of the team quite a bit since he’s come in. I honestly don’t think Cooper would have been given a go under Eddie or Connolley.’
Smith was still starting when he retired.
There is always an alternative, and that is the entire point Further, Deans has basically picked the same packs that Connolly did, literally the same packs. Most of his changes have been forced – Baxter, Burgess, Giteau at 10, Beale at 15. Reactive rather than proactive.
Jones and Connolly picked a lot of young players, just flick through their various squads and starting XVs.
November 1st 2010 @ 4:25pm
John P said | November 1st 2010 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Consider the affect of injuries Ben, the “class of Deans”
I will phrase them in response to your “reliance on core 2007″ argument
-Robinson:
Consider, James Slipper who is playing more and more Rugby for the Wallabies and will be a bright talent in the future. Note also Kepu, Ma’Afu leading into Alexander noting last month that for the first time in a long time the Wallabies actually have some depth in the front row area. Much credit due to Noriega no doubt.
-Moore:
Not the first choice hooker when TPN returms, who is definitely a class of deans graduate. Note also development of Huia Edmonds and the brigning forward of Saia Faingaa into the testfold-and with considerable game-time, now there are three capped test hookers in competition.
-Chisholm:
Horwill and the development hate him or love him of Dean Mumm
-Sharpe:
re-invigoration of Sharpe’s career.
-Elsom:
Appointment of captaincy, away from Stirling Mortlock, which has definitely lifted his game. Note the important leadership changes made to the team (including Giteau) which have definitely changed the dynamic of the squad from being dominated by the old boys to be focussed on the future (including Berrick Barnes pre-injury)
Palu:
-Injured and hasnt played in ages, McCalman looking to be a very bright prospect very tenacious and gritty on ball. Palu will struggle to make it back in.
Barnes:
-Bench player currently.
Giteau:
-Looks to become a bench player for a resurgent Barnes (who Deans has placed a large degree of faith in)
Mitchell:
-Dropped from the squad prior to tri-nations back in due to injury, likely to get squeezed out by Davies/Turner adn Ioane when he returns from injury.
AAC:
-Currently playing fill-gap at 13 until Rob Horne returns most probably, however incfreasingly looking like a possible fulltinme replacement given injury prone nature of Horne.
“Perservered with Smith, Mortlock and Baxter”
Would have been quite presumptuos to dump the captain, most capped prop of Wallabies all time and a player widely regarded as the best no 7 to ever put on the Wallabies gold in your first couple of years, would you have done that?
Further more made a great decision to squeeze Smith out in reliance on future returns from Pocock who at the time was a worse player than Smith. This show of faith in Pocock has been returned richly and he is growing frmo game to game illustrated by his John Eales Medal. Thank go dhe didnt perservere with Smith.
Mortlock squeezed out too bulky and too slow for the play whats in front of you confident young Wallabies line.
Baxter, squeezed out as soon as the personnel presented themselves.
All in all, i would have to completely disagree with your points Ben S.
J.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:20pm
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:20pm | Report comment
‘Robinson
Consider, James Slipper who is playing more and more Rugby for the Wallabies and will be a bright talent in the future. Note also Kepu, Ma’Afu leading into Alexander noting last month that for the first time in a long time the Wallabies actually have some depth in the front row area. Much credit due to Noriega no doubt.’
But none of these players are starting, and the Australian depth myth was shattered when Robinson and Alexander were injured.
‘Moore
Not the first choice hooker when TPN returms, who is definitely a class of deans graduate. Note also development of Huia Edmonds and the brigning forward of Saia Faingaa into the testfold-and with considerable game-time, now there are three capped test hookers in competition.’
That’s total presumption.TPN has rarely started under Deans, hardly a ‘class of Deans’. You’re making the mistake of thinking that capping players is a good thing. It isn’t. Capping good players is a good thing. Edmonds is not a Test player and Faingaa is useless. In any case, both players were only selected due to injury, which confirms my point that Deans has been reliant on a core of Connolly’s squad.
‘-Chisholm:
Horwill and the development hate him or love him of Dean Mumm’
There has been no development of Mumm, and Deans could have picked Humphries or Simmons. He hasn’t, returning to Chisholm.
‘Sharpe:
re-invigoration of Sharpe’s career.’
Indeed, Sharpe has been much improved, but he is not a new player.
‘Elsom:
Appointment of captaincy, away from Stirling Mortlock, which has definitely lifted his game.’
I think the majority of Australian Roarers would disagree with that statement. Mortlock is not the captain because he was injured, btw, so there was no great cull.
‘Palu:
-Injured and hasnt played in ages, McCalman looking to be a very bright prospect very tenacious and gritty on ball. Palu will struggle to make it back in.’
Again, this is presumption that Palu will ‘struggle to make it back in’. Clearly, Deans has been very loyal to a specific group of players which is why it took him so long to drop Brown, and Palu was much improved in Europe last season.
‘Barnes:
-Bench player currently.’
Due to injury he’s been an intermittent Wallaby, but Deans made him his tour vice-captain last season.
‘Giteau:
-Looks to become a bench player for a resurgent Barnes (who Deans has placed a large degree of faith in)’
More presumption.
‘Mitchell:
-Dropped from the squad prior to tri-nations back in due to injury, likely to get squeezed out by Davies/Turner adn Ioane when he returns from injury.’
Like he was dropped for Turner on Saturday?
‘ “Perservered with Smith, Mortlock and Baxter”
Would have been quite presumptuos to dump the captain, most capped prop of Wallabies all time and a player widely regarded as the best no 7 to ever put on the Wallabies gold in your first couple of years, would you have done that?’
It is not a criticism, it is an observation. Deans relied on these players, and all the others I have named. You’re simply confirming my point for me.
‘Further more made a great decision to squeeze Smith out in reliance on future returns from Pocock who at the time was a worse player than Smith.’
You’re contradicting yourself with regard to the above paragraph. In any case, Smith wasn’t squeezed out. He retired.
‘Mortlock squeezed out too bulky and too slow for the play whats in front of you confident young Wallabies line.’
Mortlock wasn’t squeezed out. He’s been injured.
‘Baxter, squeezed out as soon as the personnel presented themselves.’
Not true either. Baxter was eventually dropped because no referee would referee him. Alexander didn’t present himself as the heir apparent. He was selected because there was no other option.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:29pm
Colin N said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:29pm | Report comment
“Note also Kepu, Ma’Afu leading into Alexander noting last month that for the first time in a long time the Wallabies actually have some depth in the front row area.”
The June games showed that the Wallabies do not have depth in the prop department.
Ma’afu is awful.
“Not the first choice hooker when TPN returms, who is definitely a class of deans graduate.”
He had three caps to his name before Deans came in.
Also, Fainga’a is awful and Edmonds is a name plucked out of nowhere. What has he done to suggest he’s test class.
“Horwill and the development hate him or love him of Dean Mumm.”
Dean Mumm is a poor test player and most people recognise that. It’s slightly laughable that you are using him as an example when most on this board have criticised him.
Horwill also given his first cap under the previous regime.
“Palu:
-Injured and hasnt played in ages, McCalman looking to be a very bright prospect very tenacious and gritty on ball. Palu will struggle to make it back in.”
Palu would have been a shoe-in had it not been for injury.
“Barnes:
-Bench player currently.
Giteau:
-Looks to become a bench player for a resurgent Barnes (who Deans has placed a large degree of faith in)”
I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here. Both are in the squad and both will have a very important role to play in the Wallabies side. It was also Connolly who called up Barnes from nowhere for the world cup and when Larkham got injured, had the faith to put him in at fly-half. Played well too, but struggled against England when his forwards were being completely out-played.
“Mitchell:
-Dropped from the squad prior to tri-nations back in due to injury, likely to get squeezed out by Davies/Turner adn Ioane when he returns from injury.”
Geez, these arguments are starting to get ridiculous. He’s come back in, played well and currently holds the shirt. I’m not personally a fan of his but Deans isn’t going to drop him when he has been scoring tries and playing very well. He only had 16 caps going into the 2007 world cup, so considering he’s now got over 50 tells you that he’s been an important player in the Deans era.
“AAC:
-Currently playing fill-gap at 13 until Rob Horne returns most probably, however incfreasingly looking like a possible fulltinme replacement given injury prone nature of Horne.”
One of Australia’s best players over the last few years. Versatile, strong, powerful and just generally an excellent player. And you think he’s a stop-gap for Horne who in his brief career, has been disappointing at test level and not done much at Super 14 level either for that matter.
As for Mortlock, he was a regular in the first-team before injury wasn’t he?
Pocock got game time because he was playing better than Smith.
Deans also held on for too long the likes of Brown and Mumm.
“Baxter, squeezed out as soon as the personnel presented themselves.”
Which could be considered the point really. Despite having less talent to work with (you are implying that yourself), ‘Connolly’s players’ are still the core of the side and Deans does make bizarre selection decisions.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:37pm
ohtani's jacket said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:37pm | Report comment
There’s no point trying to reason with Australian supporters. Even the players mothers don’t think they’re as good as the fans do.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:55pm
ThelmaWrites said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:55pm | Report comment
OJ
I beg your pardon! i resent that.
November 1st 2010 @ 10:33pm
ohtani's jacket said | November 1st 2010 @ 10:33pm | Report comment
Sorry Thelma.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:27am
ohtani's jacket said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:27am | Report comment
I don’t understand this Aussie habit of counting missed points.
At the beginning of the Test, Beale missed his first penalty attempt and then a second. At that point, the most points the Wallabies had missed out on was three. Eventually, the Wallabies scored a try and Giteau failed to convert. The upshot of all this was that the Wallabies missed out on two points, yet how many times do we see some sparkplug figure the Wallabies missed out on eight.
Apparently, the Wallabies could’ve scored two penalties and a converted try in eight minutes. It’s possible, I suppose, but their early possession had a lot to do wiith back-to-back 22 metre restarts.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:41am
southern Waratah said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:41am | Report comment
@ ohtani’s jacket
Its a little bit like half of the New Zealand population counting missed forward passes in 2007…
November 1st 2010 @ 1:36pm
Dan said | November 1st 2010 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
It’s simply lamenting a very clear deficit in our game. When other top teir countries get 80% of their penalties and your side gets 40-50%, you start thinking it might be connected to the number of close games you’re losing…
November 1st 2010 @ 7:29am
Lazlo said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:29am | Report comment
Spiro – the HK game really shook the folks up north. Before the game the English and Welsh rugby writers were a little gloomy about their countries’ chances against the Wallabies and the ABs next weekend. Now they’re funereal. While the English wriiters claim superiority of their front five, specially in the front row, over the Ws’ front five, they admit that Rocky and Pocock will be a handful. In fact, Paul Ackford thinks that Pocock is fast closing in on McCaw’s crown. But it’s the Oz/NZ backs that give these writers nightmares. A couple of them admit that nobody in the NH has the flair and pace of the W’s backs, and nobody in the NH has anybody close to a Carter or a 12 as destructive as Nonu.
The fact that the ABs lost is pretty cold comfort for the English writers. They saw how the ABs stormed back from a deficit, and they know that Henry won’t again be pulling Carter before the final whistle. The Welsh, on the other hand, are rejigging their plans, so I’m told, to contain Cooper and AAC and JOC, Mitchell and Beale. The only way they can do that is hold onto the ball, but with a 7 as good as Pocock….you can see their dilemma.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:56am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:56am | Report comment
I’m so glad those profoundly insightful ‘English writers’ have spoken. I never knew they were so well though of in the South?! If the extent of this journalism is that the Welsh are apparently rejiggling their plans to contain the players who were considered the best Wallaby backs before the Hong Kong Test was even played then I can see why you’re so smitten, Lazlo.
November 1st 2010 @ 8:00am
jameswm said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:00am | Report comment
That’s a solid game plan from the Welsh. With the backline defence, just focus on Cooper, AAC, Beale, Mitchell and JOC.
November 1st 2010 @ 8:06am
Ben S said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:06am | Report comment
Excellent. Gold medal remark.
November 1st 2010 @ 8:16am
Willy said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:16am | Report comment
And Genia.
And Giteau.
That should cover it.
November 1st 2010 @ 10:24am
Howi said | November 1st 2010 @ 10:24am | Report comment
and Turner…when he gets his chance.
November 1st 2010 @ 8:19am
ohtani's jacket said | November 1st 2010 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Forget about all that. Both sides ought to be using their tours to play better than they did on the stopover. The Wallabies ought to be cognizant of the fact that it nearly followed the script of so many other Bledisloe Cup tests, while the All Blacks should be mindful of the fact that they failed to achieve what they set out to do in regards to a strong performance from the kick-off. New Zealand laboured against England last year. Just turning up won’t thrill supporters.
November 1st 2010 @ 9:21am
warrenexpatinnz said | November 1st 2010 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Agree there is a fair bit of improvement needed from both sides OJ and you would expect after that hit out come this weekend both Wales and England will face teams nearing their peak.
If either the All Blacks or Wallabies had put in an 80 minute performance on Saturday night the scoreline could have been very lopsided either way but we were lucky enough to have an entertaining game with some very good tries showing our NH mates that the skills shown by these two sides will be demanding even with mistakes, and without the mistakes, both should be unbeatable.
November 1st 2010 @ 12:07pm
jameswm said | November 1st 2010 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
OJ you think the Wallabies are planning on just turning up?
Or they think they just need to turn up to win?
Or you think they won’t be trying to improve on the errors they made in the last (and other) games?
November 1st 2010 @ 1:49pm
ohtani's jacket said | November 1st 2010 @ 1:49pm | Report comment
I was actually talking about NZ against England this weekend. I don’t know what the Wallabies are doing. Still fondling each other perhaps.
November 1st 2010 @ 1:52pm
warrenexpatinnz said | November 1st 2010 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
Nothing beats a good fondle OJ or groin in face as Will did to AAC. I for one got no man lovin as the three kiwi’s I watched it with, my wife, mother and father inlaw were suprisingly subdued, gracious in defeat but declined watching the replay with me.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:31am
johnny-boy said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:31am | Report comment
It is possible Spiro that the Wallabies have finally figured out that Deans is not your typical lead from the front Aussie coach (not surprisingly) and that the players themselves are going to have to work it out for themselves. Deans may well have some good skills but inspiring Aussie teams is not one of them. Brian Ashton did demonstrate at the last World Cup that this can actually be a very potent team building tactic. Eventually. At least we will able to claim any victories for ourselves rather than having to thank the ‘emo in tweed’. The Wallabies finally started contesting lineouts and lo and behold – results !
John Muggleteon must have thought he had been granted a magical schooner he would have been crying so many tears in his beer based on the Wallabies mid game defence. The Wallabies tried everything they could mid game to try and lose it and the All Blacks werent helping either. I think even Gits would agree it’s time to pass the kicking to JOC so he can defend
the QC. When the All Blacks started that extended rolling maul down field it reminded me of a similar rolling maul many years ago in Wellington ? (and yes I think someone mentioned something similar in NZ coverage as well) when the All Blacks were making mincemeat of the Wallabies and the maul was the final, hot knife thru butter humiliation. That day I think the Wallabies finally realised how low they had let themselves sink and were being made complete fools of by the arrogant All Blacks. The next game – or thereabouts my memory isnt that good (in Auckland ?) I think Greg Cornlesen scored 4 tries and the Wallabies thrashed the All Blacks in an extraordinary turn around. It is possible that a similar thing happend on Saturday night. The trouble with the Wallabies is that if you give them an inch of confidence they’ll take 2 miles.
November 1st 2010 @ 7:55am
formeropenside said | November 1st 2010 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Actually, I thought that rolling maul was broken up quite well by the Wobs, after probably only about 10m.
November 1st 2010 @ 12:51pm
Even looser said | November 1st 2010 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Yep!