The Wallabies can still win the World Cup but …
By Spiro Zavos, 19 Sep 2011 Spiro Zavos is a Roar Expert
282 Have your say
Related coverage
- Rugby Union news
- Wallabies news
- Rugby World Cup 2011 news
- Rugby 2011 news
- Spiro Zavos' 2011 Rugby World Cup Diary news
- 2013 Wallabies squad news
The magic and the agony of the Rugby World Cup tournament is that it can produce results that defy prediction.
The tournament is won on the field in 80-minute contests where underdogs can have their day in the sun.
Ireland’s well-deserved and splendidly thought-out victory over a (perhaps overly) confident Wallabies side was also a night in the rain, cold and unpleasant conditions for running rugby at Eden Park on Saturday night.
Your reporter (thanks to the argument between Fairfax and the IRB over the use of match videos) was seated virtually at ground level, about 10 rows from the front.
Notes I took during the game, for instance, were hard to decipher (even more so than usual) as the ink ran down the page in sporadic showers.
Even before the match you sensed that something special was about to take place. In one of the oldest sporting clichés, the atmosphere was electric.
The crowd roared when the names of the players were announced. You’d have sworn you were watching in Sydney or Dublin.
Huge clusters of yellow-clad Wallaby supporters spread around the vast towering stands of Eden Park.
In a poetic moment before I knew, of course, the devastating outcome of the match, I had the notion of the Wallaby supporter groups being like clumps of daffodils among the long green grass of the Ireland supporters.
In hindsight, there were some telling prompts (if we’d been able to read them accurately at the time) that gave clues to the way the match might go, and certainly to which team was the favourite of the large non-partisan contingent of the huge 58,000-plus crowd.
The names of the Irish players received by far the heaviest roaring from their Irish supporters. And when Quade Cooper’s name was called out, or indeed whenever Cooper touched the ball during the match, heavy roars of boos like a barrage of cannon shots blasted around the ground.
The animosity to Cooper, in fact, went much further than just booing him. At one point in the match Cooper took the ball to the line (which to his credit he did frequently) before being smashed in a tackle.
The fiery Irish pack collapsed on him and seemed rather unworried about where their elbows, shoulders and knees landed on his prone body.
A spectator a couple of rows behind me screamed out: ‘Smash him! Kill him! Kick him in the head!’ It was a man dressed in All Blacks supporter clothing.
All this goes back to Cooper’s stupidity in continually trying to bait Richie McCaw.
Courtenay Lawes, the young, talented but overly-pugnacious English second-rower got a two-match suspension for kneeing an Argentinian player for an action that looked much less deliberate than Cooper’s kneeing of McCaw in the last Bledisloe Cup match at Brisbane.
New Zealanders cultivate and like hard rugby. But, in the modern era, they intensely dislike the dirty, smart-arsed rugby in which Cooper has been indulging with McCaw.
The upshot of all this is that as Nick Farr-Jones predicted, Cooper’s behaviour has rebounded on the Wallabies.
Instead of being the second team in the affections of the New Zealand rugby public (with the Robbie Deans syndrome kicking in), the Wallabies have become the team New Zealanders least want to win the World Cup tournament.
So the Wallabies have lost the home ground advantage they would have had before the Cooper antics when they are playing sides that are not New Zealand.
When Ireland kicked for goal there was relative silence. When James O’Connor kicked for goal there was so much booing that around me there were ‘ssshh’ calls even from Irish supporters for some silence.
When Ireland made some surges, the roars of the Irish supporters were ballasted by the roars of the New Zealanders at the game, too.
There was one little incident that gave a clue to the advantage that this gave Ireland.
Around about the 30th minute mark, when the match was truly in the balance, the Wallabies kicked deep. Two Irish players exchanged passes around their own 22. The pass, although it was only a short one, was marginally but clearly forward.
In circumstances like this, with the referee and touch judges well behind in the play, an angry roar from the crowd identifying the error forces the referee to call a forward pass and set a scrum.
But there was no identifying roar. And so Ireland got away with the pass and the need to defend a tough situation.
When we go through this match, several factors stand out as elements that created the surprise result.
The first factor is that Ireland played very very very well. Their tactics of slowing down the Wallaby drives by keeping the tackled player off the ground thereby forcing a maul and a turnover were smart. What is more the players, forwards and backs, carried out the plan expertly.
Ireland presented one of the best scrums I have seen for a long time.
Whether the Irish scrum was really as good as it look, straight-backed, driving low with plenty of grunt, or whether the Wallabies without Stephen Moore had a bad night, will become clearer as the tournament progresses.
Their have been some suggestions by writers on The Roar that the Irish props bored in illegally.
But I must say that watching the game live (where admittedly you sometimes don’t see too much, although some scrums were quite close to me) and on a television replay that I could not see any boring in by Ireland.
I thought, in fact, that towards the end of the match referee Bryce Lawrence went out of his way to give the Wallabies the benefit of the doubt when scrums collapsed, even though it was pretty clear that the Wallaby props had slipped their binds and had gone down with their backs bent like a staple.
One scrum, in particular, which led to the last penalty saw the Wallaby front row go down two times before they were penalised on their third collapse. Either of the first two collapses warranted a penalty, in my view.
A second factor was the loss of David Pocock and Stephen Moore through injury and ill-health just before the match, and Digby Ioane out for a few more matches with a fractured thumb.
Pocock would have provided a contest with the excellent Irish number 7 Sean O’Brien for the ball on the ground (and in the slippery conditions there were plenty of such balls).
Ben McCalman, Pocock’s replacement is not a fetcher or scavenger. In hindsight, it might have been better to start with Scott Higginbotham.
Certainly, either McCalman or Rocky Elsom, who looked metres off the pace and out of puff for most of the match, should have been subbed earlier.
There was nothing that could be done about the Moore situation. Tatafu Polota-Nau is the second hooker. He looked over-weight (to put it kindly). He went down frequently, as he did for the Waratahs. His lineout throwing was poor. And, seemingly, his scrumming left a lot to be desired.
The Wallaby backline looked laboured too, with too much running across the field. Adam Ashley Cooper needs to come into the centres again.
Berrick Barnes should be given a crack at inside centre to provide two play-makers for the outside backs and Kurtley Beale to run off.
At the worst, provided the Wallabies win their next two matches against the USA, and Russia and Ireland defeat Italy in the last game of Pool C at Dunedin, the team will go into the quarter-finals and a match against a rampant (against Fiji, at least) Springboks outfit.
There is some comfort that England, of all sides, has twice lost pool round matches and gone on to play in the finals, in RWC 1991 and RWC 2007. Both times England came close to winning the final. So there is a precedent for the Wallabies to look too, although no one that has lost a pool round match has actually won the final.
The All Blacks could lose to France and go into the half of the finals draw away from the Wallabies.
Or Italy could defeat Ireland and the Wallabies could get to the number one position in their pool on bonus points.
Or, who knows what other upset results could be thrown up. Samoa might defeat South Africa, for instance, and take the Springboks out of the New Zealand half of the finals rounds.
And what if the rainy and windy conditions that have applied in the tournament so far give way to an October without rain but with sunshine and dry fields. These are the conditions that favour the Wallabies running game. All these missing stars will be back, too.
There is a saying in politics, particularly as it relates to by-elections which governments tend to lose: ‘While there’s death there is hope.’
The 2011 RWC tournament has plenty of deaths like the Wallaby loss to come, one would think. So hang on for the ride …
Spiro Zavos, a founding writer on The Roar, was long time editorial writer on the Sydney Morning Herald, where he started a rugby column that has run for nearly 30 years. Spiro has written 12 books: fiction, biography, politics and histories of Australian, New Zealand, British and South African rugby. He is regarded as one of the foremost writers on rugby throughout the world.
Sport, all day long. Does this sound too good to be true? We're searching for a Group Sales Manager to lead our team in Sydney. If you're a sales star who doesn't mind a hit, kick, throw, or cycle, we want to hear from you. Apply now.



September 19th 2011 @ 6:39am
Pot Hale said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:39am | Report comment
Good to see a write-up that acknowledges the positives that Ireland brought to the game as opposed to just the negatives which helped then win the game, rather than the Wallabies losing it.
Another factor – although somewhat intangible – was the sense that there was a lack of intensity that Wallabies brought to the match. I don’t know whether the slightly faux and shortened Tri-Nations this year was a contributory factor, but Australia just looked off the pace in keeping up with the game and matching the intensity of Ireland over the 80 minutes.
September 19th 2011 @ 6:53am
Capital said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:53am | Report comment
Intensity – they started with nothing and finished with nothing.
Well deserved Ireland, a very good performance.
September 19th 2011 @ 6:56am
WayneO said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:56am | Report comment
I would say in some way Ireland also had more to prove than Aus in that game, and they looked like it too. Some times an early wake up call can be the thing that the team needs. Better now than in the knock out phases. Over confidence on Australia’s part, may have been there. There has been a lot made of their recent Tri nations win, and that needed to be brought back to earth. Now Aus can concentrate on their next games, and we Boks supporters can hope for an Italy win against Ireland. Not because we are afraid of playing the wallabies, but because it would be better overall as a Tri-nations follower, if there remained an opportunity to have a SH RWC final. I would really be disappointed to see two out of 3 Tri-nations teams bundled out before the finals.
September 19th 2011 @ 11:11pm
GPC said | September 19th 2011 @ 11:11pm | Report comment
yep. we can look forward to a nh verse sh final, which will be boring, again. i was looking forward to a nz vs aus final because they are the only exciting (top) sides to watch.
September 27th 2011 @ 12:41pm
james linz said | September 27th 2011 @ 12:41pm | Report comment
agreed, don’t care what people say, i would much prefer to watch the tri nations than RWC, NH rugby is intense, but chokes all the fun out of the game. is a real shame we are prob going to be on the same side of the draw. Even though Kiwis just want wallaby blood, i feel my loyalty, because of their style, will always be with the NH teams.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:00am
Moaman said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:00am | Report comment
Pot……Australia has probably really only managed one 40 minute spurt of high-intensity rugby all year.They seem incapable of liftng themselves out of auto-pilot.
Spiro—Interesting ,thoughful article. I said on a post yesterday that I believed the ‘Boofhead’s’ antics had turned a lot of neutrals (including me) a greenish tinge.Moreover-I believe it is the tacit toleration (by team/management/coaches/judicary) of such antics that has bugged people like me.Most of my life I have had a soft spot for a country that I spent 3 happy years in during my younger days. But I watched that match with an excitement and interest in the result far beyond what it would have been 6 months ago,even.
Ireland played a good,solid and occasionally daring game against Australia–and had Bowe the wit to put in a Corey Janesque cross-kick when he saw he was going to be run down by O’Connor—the win could have been even more emphatic.
Comments about the referee to me reflect how partisanship can completely slant one’s view.I couldn’t believe that Horwill wasn’t pinged for offside when Reddan was instead hit for a knock-on.Bizarre.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:32am
sunshine said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Moaman, comments about the referree can clearly slant one’s view…
and yet horwill was hit for a penalty when he came from an onside position when the ball was clearly free from a ruck which allowed Ireland another shot a goal.
Genia was through and then called back for obstruction on a player who was clearly offside.
Ireland clear knock on after the kick through deflected of Cooper, and yet a lineout with their throw was given.
Scrum penalty against for collapsing (even after the Irish front row lost binds and went to knees)… well this was only once the rest were deserved even in my impartiality we were smashed here.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:44am
Jerry said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:44am | Report comment
That Horwill penalty is nowhere near as cut and dried as many seem to think. The ball was placed at the back of the ruck, but there was a Wallaby player on the deck beside it – it wasn’t clear that it was out at all, and Lawrence was perfectly entitled to rule it wasn’t. I didn’t see many Aussies or Horwill complaining about a similar penalty against McCaw in the Reds vs Crusaders round robin match.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:54am
formeropenside said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:54am | Report comment
sorry, did the ref tell Horwill three times to leave it? and there was no Irishman on his feet bound (unlike Ioane in Bris).
September 19th 2011 @ 9:03am
RucknRoll said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Ioane bound??? Does your tv have blind spots, or is it just you?? Who was he bound to?…Casper??
September 19th 2011 @ 9:10am
Jerry said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:10am | Report comment
You’ve spectacularly missed the point which is that it was a contentious call, just as the Brisbane one was, but not clearly a wrong one.
Firstly, there were many Irish players on their feet including one who was arguably still over the ball – his feet were in line with the ball.
Secondly Ioane was never at any point bound to that ruck in Brisbane, so he definitely wasn’t bound when McCaw tried to clear the ball.
September 19th 2011 @ 10:22am
soapit said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:22am | Report comment
despite what the rule may or may not techinically say 9 times out of 10 you’ll get penalised for coming around the side of the ruck and picking up the ball unless there is clear space between it and the ruck. there wasnt and it was a big gamble which didnt pay off for horwill.
i agree with most of your other grievences though. i’ll add aus getting penalised for holding on despite having an irish second rower lying on the wrong side preventing any release. plus it looked to me like the irish were pulling down the scrums giving our front row a choice between putting a hand down and doing a face plant with 900kg of force on the back of your neck. this was early on and i think the few dodgy penalties put the wind up them, the later on scrum penalties seemed mostly fair but i would say aus was having to be overly cautious by that point.
not sure why this even has to be a penalty, a brief touch of the ground to stabilise would help reduce the collapses surely?
September 19th 2011 @ 11:52am
Jerry said | September 19th 2011 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Yeah, I’ve never understood why putting a hand on the deck to prevent a collapse, which is pretty clearly what happened here, is illegal either.
September 27th 2011 @ 12:51pm
james linz said | September 27th 2011 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
i like what you say about the wallabies being “incapable of liftng themselves out of auto-pilot” this above everything else has worried me about the wallabies. i stopped watching them for a while, claiming i would watch again when they grew some heart and passion. the game against the ABs was great, but if they don’t show more passion when they put on the green and gold this RWC i give up, i dont care if they loose, as long as i see some heart, otherwise, there is something seriously wrong.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:50am
Brett McKay said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:50am | Report comment
Pots, I don’t think there’s any point telling it any other way. It was plain to see: Ireland were vastly superior across the park, and particularly in the scrums, and the game plan of robbing the Wallabies any chance of building momentum worked a treat. In short, well played, far too good…
September 19th 2011 @ 8:52am
Will Sinclair said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:52am | Report comment
It was all too familiar though, wasn’t it Brett?
That could have been the Wallabies v England in 2007, or 1995… or most of the other times we have played them in between.
Teams just know that if you slow down the Wallabies ball (legally or otherwise) and turn the game into a stop/start fractured, forward dominated game, that the Aussies will get flustered and go to pieces.
It was so familiar, it was depressing.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:20am
Brett McKay said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:20am | Report comment
Fair to say a few teams went back to old notes on the Wallabies, Will. Back to the future, and all that business..
September 19th 2011 @ 2:49pm
jokerman said | September 19th 2011 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
I felt the Irish were a bit mean how they carried Genia like he was a little baby, he seemed to be screaming “Let me go!” The Irish weren’t listening. What’s next? Feed Genia his bottle? Read him a children story?
I haven’t see such injustice since Val Kilmer starred in Willow, and taunted the Dwarfs.
September 19th 2011 @ 6:49am
Greg said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:49am | Report comment
Spire, love your optimism but we won’t make it past the semis the as the wallabies are playing as individuals not as a team. Cooper needs to sit down watch Bernie larkam games to see how to play wc style. Forwards toughen up !!!
September 19th 2011 @ 6:50am
p.Tah said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:50am | Report comment
The Kiwis don’t support us as their second team because of Cooper’s antics? It wouldn’t matter if the team had saved a group of kiwi mothers from a burning car, they would still support whoever is playing Australia!
September 19th 2011 @ 7:28am
Nick-KIA said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:28am | Report comment
Yep. The only time I supported wallabies was in 2003 final. Would do the same if they play the poms again but nothing to do with qc
September 19th 2011 @ 8:45am
Harry said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:45am | Report comment
I agree this whole “Kiwi’s don’t support us because of Quade” is twaddle. They don’t support Australia because they know we are capable of beating them.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:00am
RucknRoll said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:00am | Report comment
I think you’ll find a small group of kiwis don’t suport Australia in any sport ever. However the majority of kiwis have been influenced by the antics of ‘boofhead’ Quade, hence the support we saw at Eden park on Saturday and the mroe Quade keeps up his arrogance, the more that will continue….
September 19th 2011 @ 9:08am
Riccardo said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:08am | Report comment
Agreed. I think what has made it worse is 1) the unmanly smartar$e side of it & 2) the fact that so many (including the Aussie Team and Coach and the JUDICIARY – WTF?) seem to condone it. Will still back Wallabies against the Poms tho…
September 19th 2011 @ 9:12am
RucknRoll said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:12am | Report comment
I’m with you on that one.
September 19th 2011 @ 10:40am
WQ said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:40am | Report comment
You are 100% correct RucknRoll, Dingo and Cooper have made a rod for their own back. A rod that was completely unnecessary!
What was deemed to be clever is starting to look a bit dumb now!
You would have thought that maybe somebody in the Wallaby’s set up would have suggested that the World Cup was being played in NEW ZEALAND this year and maybe just maybe we might want the crowd on our side when we are playing Countries like Ireland, England or perhaps even South Africa.
The Wallaby supporters can say what they like, but NZ supporters on any other day would back Australia over England and South Africa.
Not this time, and they only have stupidity to blame for it.
September 19th 2011 @ 10:56am
Tonto said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:56am | Report comment
Aussie have lost a golden opportunity (in hindsight) to garner more friendly support.
However as a Kiwi I have grown up with the instinctual hatred of Australia and would only support Oz if they were playing SA, England and you could argue France but (I thinkwe want to deal with them ourselves! )
September 19th 2011 @ 3:10pm
Jim Bom said | September 19th 2011 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
Glad we, the object of your instinctual hatred, dont feel the same way. Would have been a lot less given to the Christchurch earthquake relief.
September 19th 2011 @ 3:50pm
Muzza said | September 19th 2011 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
Tonto, you sound like a teenager still growing up. I doubt most of us Kiwis walk around with hatred for Australia “in any sport”. Twerp. Try going overseas for a spell and meet some folk who are not from your backwater hole.
As for tbe Cooper point, it never occured to me before but certainly the crowd will be baying for his blood and that rubs off on the team big time. Agreed, stupid for the ARU to miss this as well.
All that said, Aussie probably remain my 2nd favourite (emotionally speaking) team as I sure don’t want the Boks or Poms to win it and I can’t imagine anyone else having a snowballs chance in hell.
September 19th 2011 @ 5:10pm
WQ said | September 19th 2011 @ 5:10pm | Report comment
Tonto, I think you are speaking for yourself when talking of an ‘instinctual hatred of Australia’
There are a lot of Kiwis that support Australia in every game they play other than the All Blacks. Certainly at least when they play England or South Africa.
September 19th 2011 @ 5:27pm
KiwiDave said | September 19th 2011 @ 5:27pm | Report comment
Much rather the aussies than the English, South Africans or French. At least Australia can play running rugby, and there’s so many NZers in the team anyway!
September 19th 2011 @ 5:39pm
Chuck said | September 19th 2011 @ 5:39pm | Report comment
I very much doubt there is hatred but when it comes to sport the vast majority of Kiwis love to see Australia go down, and this is quite clear in many of the recent polls done. It’s just rivalry nothing more.
I was at the game on Saturday night and every single kiwi in the place was screaming for the Irish and there were thousands.
I don’t support Australia in Rugby simply because they are one of our biggest rivals, do you think the English support the Germans in Football or the French in Rugby?
When Australia plays England I couldn’t give a hoot who wins. When Australia plays the Boks however I am a little torn between them both to be honest and normally back the team that can ruin the others chances of winning the tournament generally speaking the 3N.
The arrogance that has come out of the Australian camp this year and Quades dispicable tactics of targeting Richie has certainly not endeared them and especially him to the NZ public.
Surely it must really get to Quade to be hated by his own people. Yes I said it Quade is a New Zealander who happens to play for Australia and he is loathed by his own countrymen that must hurt deep down.
Any other sport apart from the big four in NZ, Rugby, Netball, Cricket – I always support Australia
September 19th 2011 @ 6:29pm
Tonto said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:29pm | Report comment
Wow, ok I apologise if I came off the wrong way – after all hate is a strong word. I don’t know if you guys have seen my other posts (eg lay off the Wobblie/Wannabies give Aussies some respect)
I forgot to mention that having lived IN Australia I have suprisingly found a huge amount of support for NZ by Aussies. Remember its more because we play Australia alot and loose to Australia more often than other teams. And remember I said we do like supporting (and by we yes I am generalising to the people I grew up with in Wellington) Australia verses particular countries especially strong ones. i think it may be also abit of the underdog status we like to root for in NZ as in every other sport we don’t have the sucess we have with the All Blacks.
As for the Teenager growing up tag you can go in with the people who don’t respect others and keep calling others names (chockers/wobblies). And I’m 34 so have seen abit of Aus vs NZ rugby if it makes any difference.
I came to post on this site as I found the discussions to be much more constructive to those that were on stuff.co.nz.
Was I wrong in that assumption?
Interested in hearing replies.
September 19th 2011 @ 5:16pm
bokka said | September 19th 2011 @ 5:16pm | Report comment
Feelin’ the lurve WQ
September 19th 2011 @ 6:16pm
jaysper said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:16pm | Report comment
meh! don’t really agree with that. most of us kiwis are reasonably happy to support Ozzies against other nations (except in cricket where your team until recently has been a bunch of arrogant tossers).
im not overly annoyed at the wallies, but would like to see quade’s nose schmeared all over his face – LOL!
September 19th 2011 @ 10:47am
david smith said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:47am | Report comment
I agree with p.Tah most Kiwis I know support anyone against the Wallabys. For me its all about “four more years”. Sledging absolutely has its place in sport and Aussie sportsmen and women must be applauded for being amongst the most adept in that area of the game. But when sledging becomes gratuitous, when the game is won and it can have no material impact, then it’s just sadistic and disrespectful to the spirit of the game. Coopers antics may be grubby but he is still just one of a team of semingly decent characters, and as such the Wallabys do not deserve to be reviled as a whole. Gregan’s sledge however was made as captain of the team and as such is deserving of any grudges born. It’s gratifying to think that all these years later there has, perhaps, been a degree of blowback for his old team as the Kiwi crowd helped spur the Irish to their win. And every time Australia fails to win the world cup, I will have a little chuckle to myself and think of wee Georgie watching from the stands as his team bottles it yet again.
September 19th 2011 @ 12:02pm
mace22 said | September 19th 2011 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
I live in aussie and have supported them in the past. But after all thats gone on this year. I support anyone except the boks. If everything pans out and the wallabies play south africa in the semi’s, I hope the wallabies beat them. Because the boks are the only team I fear. The difference from the world cup and tri nations is that australia doesn’t get a rest week. They have to play every week and I don’t think they’re up to it
September 19th 2011 @ 4:45pm
fotoflyer said | September 19th 2011 @ 4:45pm | Report comment
@mace22 – If everything pans out, the Wallabies will play South Africa in the quarters not the semis…
September 19th 2011 @ 8:47pm
AUS said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:47pm | Report comment
mistake glad you pick it up
September 19th 2011 @ 1:16pm
Harryonthecoast said | September 19th 2011 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
It goes back a lot further than Gregan’s days, David. This old bugger was at Rotorua when Wales beat the Wallabies by one point for third place in the first World Cup in ’87. Talk about “The Boofhead” getting booed every time he touches the ball….EVERY Wallabies copped a bollocking from the Kiwi-dominated crowd at Rotorua that day.
September 19th 2011 @ 3:56pm
Muzza said | September 19th 2011 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
You poor precious people. Badgering, sledging etc is all part of sport and sure, it rises to a crescendo when across town rivals play. Get over it. Makes it all the more juicy entertainment.
September 27th 2011 @ 1:15pm
james linz said | September 27th 2011 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Agreed, but it is rising to a crescendo, even when we are not playing each other. sledging is a big part of sport, and i have no problem with it, but sledging a whole team and its fans when your own team is not even on the field, is going a little too far. i know that Cooper has been an absolute idiot, but i think in some silly stupid manner, he was trying to signal to the ever intimidating ABs and Richie, that he would not be intimidated. it was very stupid, and i really really hope he grows up, but to attack the whole team for one players stupidity, and more importantly, the fans. seams a little unreasonable. and i know in a football crowed, reasonable plays second to passion, but i only read posts on this site now cos i see too much of that rubbish spilling over into the forums. i support Aus 1st and nz 2nd, and always SH over NH. has been good to read on this site some comments from more reasonable Kiwis. can actually have a discussion about it here lol.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:12am
Capital said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:12am | Report comment
There are a couple of issues that need to be considered.
We brought over 5-6 players who proved their fitness, but have no match fitness.
To date not one of them has looked sharp – TPN was really a passenger, as has been Slipper. Palu needs game time and a chance to get something before we need him in the finals.
The backs:
Cooper is reckless at times, falling back to ‘entertaining’ rugby whenever under pressure.
Barnes is needed now.
McCabe was poor – running tall against a tall opposition.
Faiinga has just tried too hard every time he comes on and made bad mistakes.
AAC has no form, he is 60% of his best, at best.
And collectively, these guys can’t play wet dirty rugby. They just don’t adjust.
The loss of Ioane, Pocock, Moore:
I am sure the loss of Pocock threw some doubt into the players minds, as did the loss of Steve Moore, who has been an absolute workhorse all year – and a pseudo leader on and off the field. Deans has had a long time to work on combinations, and no-one should be irreplaceable at this level.
The key issue is that we lacked leadership in this match – Genia is a leader, but he is also a grating type – as evidenced by the filthy stare he gave JOC. AAC has been in the past – but when you have no form, tough to talk and walk. And no-one else, inexperienced and uncertain under the pump. Unfortunately, Ioane proved a huge loss, as he was the trigger in the Italy match – JOC got the accolades – but Ioane went looking for work and used it.
In the forwards – Horwill and Moore are the go to men, with Pocock the quiet assassin.
Again – without Moore and Pocock the side was found seriously lacking.
So, for Deans – time to assess why this team struggles after good wins – Ego? Social Media? Over Confidence? Or just good time boys who won’t do the work when it gets a bit dirty?
I really can’t answer these questions – but that result is undefendable and in a RWC amateurish.
And this reflects on the coach, leadership group and players.
September 19th 2011 @ 10:27am
soapit said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:27am | Report comment
i’ll add without a specialist openside the irish were under little pressure on their own ruck ball. macalmna was getting there first but was easily cleaned out each time. pococks not superman but this is his speciality would have got at least a couple of turnovers or at least slowed down the ball and made them commit more.
September 19th 2011 @ 11:01am
ianmac said | September 19th 2011 @ 11:01am | Report comment
Our biggest mistake in this campaign has been having no backup openside for Pocock.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:44pm
Pot Hale said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
Ireland didn’t have a specialist opensider either, soapit. Wallace, the number one, was injured prior to RWC, and Jennings the back-up wasn’t in the matchday 22. Australia knew that in advance. The absence of Pocock can only be taken so far.
September 20th 2011 @ 7:00am
Capital said | September 20th 2011 @ 7:00am | Report comment
We just failed to be near the ball, I watched the first half again last night and the forwards just weren’t at the breakdown.
September 20th 2011 @ 10:13am
soapit said | September 20th 2011 @ 10:13am | Report comment
well pots all i would say is that your backup option did a better job of adapting to openside than ours.
maybe our pack is so used to having pocock doing that role that noone else has that string in their bow.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:20am
Jerry said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Something I realised following this match and anticipating the French/NZ match – NZ is the only team in RWC history who has never lost a pool match. Aus did it in 95 and on the weekend, France did it in 07, England has done it in 91, 99 & 07 and SA did it in 03. Means nothing in the overall scheme of things, and probably adds fuel to the choke fire, but still – a bit of trivia that may only last another week.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:31am
Nick-KIA said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:31am | Report comment
I can’t see France beating abs in pool stage. If the meet again in the final they’ve got a better shot
September 19th 2011 @ 9:03am
Jonno said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Why would France want to beat NZ… lose the battle with a great chance to win the WAR!!
September 19th 2011 @ 9:42am
Bob said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:42am | Report comment
Exactly!!
On top of that it will be infuriating to kiwis whose team fell apart in the QF’s in 2007 simply because a) they had had no tough rugby for months and b) Had no idea which team to pick as nobody had been challenged for months.
Scotland did the French in 2007 a huge favour by not challenging them in the pool play last time- would not be surprised if the favour was not returned to Scotland or the Argies this time around.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:45am
Jerry said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:45am | Report comment
The All Blacks could play nothing but under-7s for months and still be able to beat Scotland. Besides, they’re more likely to be facing the Pumas in the 1/4, I suspect.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:49am
Bob said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:49am | Report comment
Or England!! If Ireland can beat Aus, Scotland must ahve a chance against a pretty ordinary (so far) England.
September 19th 2011 @ 2:07pm
Justin said | September 19th 2011 @ 2:07pm | Report comment
Bob – have you seen Scotland?
September 19th 2011 @ 7:34am
Mungehead said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Usually the wake-up call that NZ need somewhere along the way in the tournament is the one that knocks them out.
Hopefully this game will be that wake-up call instead. Australia play a running game like we do, and they were shut down in a contest with no tries against an opponent they underestimated. I’m guilty of it too, I had thought Australia would meet us in the finals. Not writing that off yet, but that looks considerably less likely now, as does the possibility that we will breeze through with no hiccups along the way.
It wasn’t so much the Wallabies underestimating Ireland as Australia missing some key players up front (Pocock, Moore) and having no depth of replacements in those positions. There wasn’t a lot to do when the Irish beat them up in the scrums and bullied them at the breakdown. The Wallaby backs struggled, as many here have said they would, behind a pack going backwards. Can’t really blame Cooper for that loss. If there was anything I’d bemoan during the game, it would be Deans not replacing Faingaa with Mitchell a good 15 minutes earlier than he did… the replacements he made were too little too late, but maybe nothing would have made any difference.
Well done Ireland, congratulations.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:42am
CraigB said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:42am | Report comment
The Irish were great and well played to them, but their other slowing tactic, feining injury was poor. It wasn’t needed and just made them look stupid.
As for the Wallabies, if they get past the pool stages they will not get beyond the 1/4′s. They are a disgrace to the jumper in that they cannot turn up to play every week. Its something that amateurs playing for their club manage, yet these so called professinals cannot mantain any rage. I remember reading an Alan Jones quote saying “that being professional is nothing about money and all about the elimination of mistakes”. By that standard these Wallabies are no professionals as the mistakes from the past has not been learnt. This was ’07 revisited where a limited team beat a more fancied opponent by simply grinding them into the dirt.
So thats it the Wallabies are over for this year and just need to get through the formalities of the last 2 possibly 3 games. All we can pray for now is a typical NZ choke to keep their sooky la la supporters ‘eerrghh no respect!!!! you touched St Richie, you ****!!’ quiet.
*end rant*
September 19th 2011 @ 8:24am
Riccardo said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:24am | Report comment
“All we can pray for now is a typical NZ choke to keep their sooky la la supporters ‘eerrghh no respect!!!! you touched St Richie, you ****!!’ quiet.” Now that’s constructive and mature.
And from a Kiwi, back your team pal! Wallabies aren’t gone yet. The ante has gone up, that’s all; and enitrely appropriately when Pocock’s missing but Hiigginbottom doesn’t start. You’ll also get Moore and Digby back and be a btter unit.
Funny thing is that while the Wallabies gave the AB’s their wake up call in the 3Nations final the Wallabies have now had their’s and should be better for it.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:51am
CraigB said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:51am | Report comment
If you come to this site expecting constructive and mature then you will always be disappointed. Fans all of colours on here will always be otherwise and as such I’ve found it much more cathartic to join them.
As a Kiwi, you have NO IDEA what it is like to try and support this team. If they were just plain woeful I could deal with it. If they gave their all, arrived at every contest swtiched on and ready to fight for the cause I could accept it when they fall short. However this team shows what they are truly capable of every now and again. Look at France last year, Brissy this year. They put it all out there and they can be brilliant., but this is an all too rare occurance. They seem so wrapped up in there own image building that they forget who provides them with a platform to build it, us!Its the supporters who pay their salaries, not the ARU, not JoN, not Dingo, not sponsors, not Foxtel, but grassroots supporters. Many of us whilst not endowed with the physical weapons would give anything for one chance to wear that golden jersey in the field of battle, these guys take is for granted and that is what grates most of all.
September 19th 2011 @ 2:52pm
Sam said | September 19th 2011 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
I throught you had already ended the rant. Anything else you need to get off your chest?
September 27th 2011 @ 1:39pm
james linz said | September 27th 2011 @ 1:39pm | Report comment
well said Riccardo, i hope you are right and its great to hear it from a Kiwi. go wallabies, and NZ second lol. but i also commiserate with CraigB. the wallabies have been soo painful to watch for the last 8 years, because they have lacked heart and passion. and now they are even more painful to watch, because we see glimmers of brilliance, glimmers of what could be the best team in the world, right before a ball is dropped, right before the forwards fail to show any god damn heart and passion and allow a turnover. i am becoming increasingly worried that this auto pilot wallaby culture is going to result in a ridicules amount of talent being squandered.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:50am
Will Sinclair said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:50am | Report comment
“The Irish were great and well played to them, but their other slowing tactic, feining injury was poor. It wasn’t needed and just made them look stupid.”
Absolutely agree with this, but blame also has to lie with Bryce Lawrence.
At EVERY scrum and line-out an Irishman would have a sit down, a rub and a drink. It seems absolutely extraordinary that referee Lawrence allowed it to continue for so long. He wasn’t even stopping the clock (I would like to see some stats on how long the ball was in play – I would guess somewhere around 20 minutes out of 80).
A referee in control of the game would have noticed the tactic early and ensured it stopped.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:25am
zhenry said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:25am | Report comment
I would definitely end your rant. This WC is in NZ, you might have forgotten where NZ is, and Spiro in my opinion is not astray in his anti Cooper prognosis. That is a trigger for the rampant dumping AUs gleefully and immaturely indulge themselves in. It will only eliminate any remnant of support that you have, and believe me you are going to need what you are not going to get.
September 19th 2011 @ 2:15pm
bokka said | September 19th 2011 @ 2:15pm | Report comment
It’s all very obvious Australia threw the match.
Everybody knows Australias pitiful record against NH sides, for some reason they just know what it takes to lose to NH sides. The team knows it, the coaching staff know it, the board knows it and the supporters know it. They didn’t want to be on the side of a draw riddled with NH teams.
Given that the Wallabies DOMINATED the Tri Nations like no team before them, they were always hoping to end up on this side of the draw. I mean to beat SA in SA and beat the AB’s for entire 40 minutes, hell we may as well of just handed them the RWC right then and there, save everybody the inevitable pain.
This side of the draw is what they want [because all I've been hearing is how the Wannabe's have proven they can dominate their SH counterparts], and they now have it.
So Australia, why all the tears?
September 19th 2011 @ 5:52pm
Chuck said | September 19th 2011 @ 5:52pm | Report comment
Now that is Roar Gold !!
September 19th 2011 @ 7:44pm
Snobby Deans said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:44pm | Report comment
“Given that the Wallabies DOMINATED the Tri Nations like no team before them”
Bokka, WTF?
The Wallabies won 3 of 4 games and took a shellacking at Eden Park. The All Blacks were on 9 straight Tri-Nation wins (last game of 2009, all 6 games won in ’2010 and their first 2 in 2011) before their 2nd-string team lost to the Boks in Sth Africa.
Hardly a dominating performance when you look at it that way.
So either your comment was facetious or you need to head back down to the Optometrist to get your prescription re-checked.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:59pm
bokka said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:59pm | Report comment
No Snobby, it wasn’t a dominating performance at all was it?
Not the sharpest tool in the shed I see. So quick to defend your touchy record, you have ‘succeeded’ in failing to process anything of what I have said.
Now, about that prescription?
September 19th 2011 @ 7:57pm
Gerhard van Lamp said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:57pm | Report comment
DOMINATED?The Australians were the only side to play their first stringers thoughout…DOMINATED might be a little strong…
September 19th 2011 @ 8:10pm
Gumboot said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:10pm | Report comment
I think Bokka’s being sarcastic Gerhard. Go Bokka, yay
September 19th 2011 @ 7:44am
cinematic said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:44am | Report comment
Cooper’s inept play currently eclipses his cheap shots on McCaw.
And the moment the Irish picked up Genia and scampered 15 metres down the paddock with him was very amusing.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:10am
jeremy said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:10am | Report comment
I also had a quiet chortle after he picked himself up from the bottom of a deep ruck and proceeded to mouth off extensively at his own forwards. What was the article earlier this week about the forwards wanting him to be abrasive?
September 19th 2011 @ 8:15am
johnny-boy said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:15am | Report comment
No more amusing than the Wallaby forwards wiping the NZ forwards off the paddock in the 1st half at Suncorp, before relaxing in the 2nd half Cinematic. Great to see kiwi graciousness in full flight, again.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:26am
Quakezone... said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:26am | Report comment
Funny but this not about the All Blacks is it? its about the Walla Irish game and what happened there why turn it into an NZ Aus discussion? because if we kept going back in time and over the games played between NZ and Oz then you would quickly run out of games Aus had beaten NZ in…..stay on topic JB.s ..now lets try that again “it was amusing when Genia got carried 15 metres back by the IRISH…”
September 19th 2011 @ 8:54am
kiwidave said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:54am | Report comment
Ooh, very touchy!
September 19th 2011 @ 6:15pm
Sprigs said | September 19th 2011 @ 6:15pm | Report comment
September 19th 2011 @ 9:10am
RucknRoll said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:10am | Report comment
Classic Quakezone…JB, don’t know how anyone couldn’t have seen how hilarious that scene was, no matter what team you support.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:51am
jokerman said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:51am | Report comment
It was like they were carrying a screaming little baby. Time for your bottle JB.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:14pm
stillmatic1 said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:14pm | Report comment
what happened to them in the 2nd half JB? oh thats right, the wallas snatched a try to win and all is forgotten. what about that awesome first half against italy? or is the perogative of the wallaby fan to just pick and choose moments of good play and not the whole game?
just asking, since alot gets said about THAT 40 minutes!!
September 19th 2011 @ 9:45pm
Johnny-boy said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:45pm | Report comment
They took their foot off the pedal stillmatic. Remember you guys invented that excuse
September 19th 2011 @ 7:47am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:47am | Report comment
It could be that the main change is simply that the Wallabies might have to face SA as well as NZ, and NZ one match earlier.
It seems to me that northern hemisphere teams often beat their opponents by putting all their forwards together and collectively smashing through them in both attack and defence, whereas southern hemisphere teams because they plan to run the ball more, spread their forwards across the field. This means that the two or three players available at any time in any place are constantly overwhelmed by the mass of northern forwards.
The only way to defeat this is to face it head on with the whole pack until it is nullified, and then start to expand the game.
Ireland did well, although both their breakdown work and scrummaging looked illegal.
The weaknesses in a team come out to be seen in a tight match. Two talented attacking centres might have made a crucial break or two between them, Mccabe and Faiingaa didn’t. They can be praised for good defence when their team are winning, but it is only when losing that you notice the absence of any presence in attack. (Reaping fruit of no Inglis, Folau, Hayne as expected).
Vickerman was appalling and perhaps is only up to playing in a winning pack, not making his pack win. Probably when playing northern hemisphere teams, strong in the lineout, Nathan Sharpe should come back just for that. The Wallabies didn’t even contest the Irish lineout as far as I could see.
Mcalman must surely go but how many times have we said that. Palu is a throw of the dice in his state of fitness, but at least he might pull off the power hits to knock back forwards such as those of the Irish. Elsom seems off the pace. Palu and Samo would be strong.
So Barnes, Palu, AAC in the centres, Sharpe, Ioane, obviously Pocock.
TPN is not to be blamed for his performance: he is hardly fit and to be fair at least he was visible around the field unlike some.
Cooper is wrongly criticised, his decision making and kicking were excellent and he only threw one failed exotic pass in the first half, as by the one at the end it was time to try anything. Easy person to blame but incorrectly. Along with O’Connor, the two bad boys, he was the best of the Wallaby backs.
Beale was the worst, with endless speculative chipkicks that gave back the rare possession the Wallabies got after they had fought so hard to get it and desperately needed to get back into the game through it. He almost lost the match single-handedly.
AAC was the other villain, repeatedly taking the ball on himself in the second half instead of setting up the more dangerous runners around him.
I don’t think this affects the Wallaby situation except in the following two ways:
1) They may have to play the final, i.e. vs the ABs, in the semi and not the actual final.
2) They must recognise, as should the ABs, that there is a forward-based bulldozing style (I’m not referring to a kicking game) that some northern hemisphere teams employ which requires a radical change of tactics to shut down. The Wallaby and AB strategy is actually developed and designed to defeat other southern hemisphere teams, and so a different one is necessary for the northern bulldogs. (note, this is why minnows often briefly threaten more established teams: their style is unfamiliar).
On an unrelated note, has there been any running rugby in this championship?
Has a single minnow won?
The IRB have not found a set of rules that allow running in big rugby matches, and have stuffed the minnows development and chances of winning, entirely DELIBERATELY.
And they have done their level best to make the RWC as boring as possible.
I didn’t even bother to watch Fiji/SA, England/Georgia live and was happy to see them recorded because the results were obvious, and I was right. Sometimes the minnows fight for a long time, but the result is never really in any doubt. The IRB have done everything to artifically weaken these poor countries, giving them four day turnovers, not allowing them players who might change nationality, not lifting a finger to develop the game. The result? Endless unexciting RWC matches where the result, despite the APPEARANCE of closeness, is a foregone conclusion.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:01am
ChrisT said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Stopped reading this once I got to “Ireland did well but both their breakdown work and scrummaging looked illegal”. Write another piece once you’ve got over your disappointment.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:16am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:16am | Report comment
It’s true. Ireland won’t always be so lucky. They played well and deserved to win but had the referee on their side as well.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:27am
Riccardo said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:27am | Report comment
Drivel
September 19th 2011 @ 8:47am
mother teresa said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:47am | Report comment
KING YOURE THE QUEEN OF HEARTS,
try to intellectualise your sorrow.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:36am
zhenry said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Classic beef.
September 20th 2011 @ 1:44am
Gerhard van Lamp said | September 20th 2011 @ 1:44am | Report comment
Yeah,from the outside the Wallaby scrumming looked illegal…and therefore they were punished
September 19th 2011 @ 8:14am
jeremy said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:14am | Report comment
Cooper took numerous poor options, KPM, choosing to kick when he should’ve run into contact, and choosing to run into contact when he should’ve kicked.
Moreover, he was well read in the final three minutes with the behind-the-back flick to an intercept by the Irish – had they had fresher legs on the paddock running in support, the margin would’ve been another 7 points. Only O’Connors defence got them out of trouble.
He’s Carlos Spencer all over again, brilliantly inconsistent.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:02am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:02am | Report comment
As far as I could see, Cooper kicked for territory when he should and very accurately, was creative and didn’t take any wrong options. A couple of passes didn’t come of, but that’s it. But of course why blame anyone else when you can blame the fancy boy.
Ireland got a good deal from the referee at the breakdown and scrum. Fair play to Ireland for justly beating Australia, but they still had the referee with them.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:06am
Justin said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:06am | Report comment
KPM — Cooper will always be the scapegoat, in general he isnt a loved player of the Aus public. I think his options were pretty reasonable on Saturday. His passing as you mentioned let him down twice but otherwise he was fine. His kicking game has actually come on a hell of alot in the last 12 months.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:17am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Justin he’s always lambasted even on his good days. What baffles me is how Beale escaped any censure for kicking the match away and AAC for hogging the ball.
September 19th 2011 @ 12:36pm
Kuruki said | September 19th 2011 @ 12:36pm | Report comment
I remember the Wallabies hard on attack trying to secure a last gasp try and a chance at victory. Wallabies had the overlap, the winger was unmarked outwide, any normal guy would have passed the ball hit him on the cheat and he would have scored in the corner. Cooper made a simple play look hard, tried a little step spun around and threw a behind the back flickpass into the hands of the opposition winger who ran over 80 meters and secured the victory. Thats Quade Cooper in a nutshell, would rather look good then just get the job done.
September 19th 2011 @ 2:09pm
jeremy said | September 19th 2011 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
His territory kicking was adequate but other tactical kicking a poor choice. I don’t have the tape so can’t tell exactly the time and position but there were two distinct occasions where he had the option of either running into contact, and chose to hack it downfield, or running into contact, and chose to grubber it ahead to be snuffed out by the Irish. One two more occasions he had time and space to cross-kick or chip and took it to contact instead, thinking he could beat the line, but was smothered by the opposing backs.
Ireland didn’t get a significantly fair deal at the breakdown but they did do something very effective which was to slow absolutely everything down to the point of agony, players down with knee injuries after every stoppage (not a fan) and slow wandering locks ambling to the lineout. Very frustrating for Australia, no doubt, so guess what every other team is going to do for the rest of the tournament.
September 19th 2011 @ 8:59am
Brett McKay said | September 19th 2011 @ 8:59am | Report comment
KPM, you’re not seriously going to pin Australia’s RWC failings on the absence of (and I might add, not even the remotest interest in) Inglis, Folau, and Hayne, are you??
September 19th 2011 @ 9:14am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Damn right Brett I am!! I warned repeatedly that the team would suffer due to a lack of power runners and midfield strength, that the game in Australia had not produced any of them, and that therefore the only way to solve this was to buy them in, and that three young men who precisely fitted the bill were available.
Just think had they been acquired and brought up to speed. This was a close match. Mccabe, Faiingaa and AAC between them made no breaks at all: the first two never do, AAC does but is out of form. The three I recommended acquiring would have.
If the playing pool is failing, as it mainfestly is in Australia, there are only two things to be done:
1) Long term: expand the game.
2) Short term: plug the gap.
The gap could have been plugged.
The last time Australia were consistently successful they had power runners like Mortlock and Tuqiri. In the absence of these, they should have been acquired.
I prophesised this and it has come to pass!
September 19th 2011 @ 9:26am
Brett McKay said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:26am | Report comment
You seem serious about this, so I’m just going to shake my head and leave it..
September 19th 2011 @ 9:38am
darwin stubby said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:38am | Report comment
I think the ‘I prophesised this and it has come to pass!’ bit and the end says it all really Brett – it’s really just not worth it
September 19th 2011 @ 9:41am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:41am | Report comment
As you wish. If you think the player pool has no problems then that’s your choice.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:54am
Brett McKay said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:54am | Report comment
The player pool could certainly be deeper KPM, but it’s still in a lot better shape than it was immediately after the last RWC. If you think Australian rugby can be turned around on the back of two mercurial NRL players and a flegling AFL player, then that’s your choice…
September 19th 2011 @ 9:32am
thurl said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:32am | Report comment
I would say that the last time Aus were consistently successful, they have a good forward pack. The Wallabys were neither consistent, nor successful when Tuqiri was playing
September 19th 2011 @ 9:42am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:42am | Report comment
thurl I’m talking about the early days of Tuqiri’s career for the Wallabies.
The point is the same though: the Australian player pool is in trouble and seems to be weakening.
September 19th 2011 @ 10:00am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Brett if you re-read what I wrote above, I never said it could be ‘turned around’ on that basis, but that hiring two or three of these players was a ‘STOP GAP’ solution and that the long term solution was to ‘EXPAND THE GAME’ to increase the playing pool.
To quote myself:
’1) Long term: expand the game.
2) Short term: plug the gap.’
The Australian player pool as far as I can see doesn’t produce enough top players to make a consistently competitive Tri-nations side. It’s not a million miles off, but it’s definitely not there. Hence the need to increase player numbers, numbers of teams etc..(the playin pool increased massively in the first years of professionalism, but then stalled. Also, I don’t believe 5 clubs is enough to increase it or compete in the long term against 16).
The stop-gap solution works well.
England early in the decade recognised they had no good linebreaking outside back, and brought in Jason Robinson. Without him they would not have won the RWC.
Australia could have done the same.
September 19th 2011 @ 10:04am
Sailosi said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:04am | Report comment
I don’t see any Australian in either code making a difference to what we have already got, Jason Robinson was a freak, i don’t see anybody in the NRL or not in the Wallaby squad like that.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:35pm
Sprigs said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:35pm | Report comment
@kingplaymaker is right, though. Our centres are journeymen. We don’t have anybody like Nonu or SBW for those crucial positions.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:17am
RucknRoll said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:17am | Report comment
Your no.2 point – ABs need to recognise the NH game. They already recognise this, hence their excellent record against NH teams, bar maybe France, who do not rely too much on this style.
September 19th 2011 @ 9:22am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:22am | Report comment
RuckonRoll EXACTLY IT’S HOW FRANCE BEAT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This northern hemisphere style by the way, only works when they perform it out of their skins, with an intensity that they only really bring in RWC rugby. That’s why the ABs can steamroll them normally but struggle in RWCs.
September 19th 2011 @ 5:59pm
Chuck said | September 19th 2011 @ 5:59pm | Report comment
You do realise the last and only time NZ met France in a World Cup Final that NZ won it and won it convincingly?
No matter what happens in pool play the two sides can not meet again until the final and I would bet my house on the ABs winning a final in NZ and comfortably.
There is a lot of talk about the French throwing this game to gain a easier route, now if the ABs did this there would be an almighty uproar by the world.
Why?
Because the ABs are held to a different standard than the rest!
September 19th 2011 @ 10:08am
kingplaymaker said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:08am | Report comment
Sailosi Robinson was never anywhere near the player Inglis, Hayne and Folau are in league. Of course they are far more talented than Mccabe and Faiingaa.
Jason Robinson was a freak, it seems as if you think Inglis isn’t!
September 19th 2011 @ 11:13am
Damo said | September 19th 2011 @ 11:13am | Report comment
Agreed King
September 19th 2011 @ 12:25pm
Sailosi said | September 19th 2011 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
I don’t think he’s a freak like Robinson there are a 100 blokes like inglis running around on comps around the world, big strong and fast they don’t make a difference they are overated. Give me fast feet any day
September 19th 2011 @ 7:36pm
Sprigs said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:36pm | Report comment
Agreed Damo
September 19th 2011 @ 10:59am
Quakezone... said | September 19th 2011 @ 10:59am | Report comment
No I don’t actually think he was wrongly criticised, in the 2nd half it was anyones game still, his option taking was poor with the nothing chips over the top and his unwillingless to play territroy at that key times, he actually looked like he wanted to attack at every moment and kept trying to force the big plays by disrepecting the Irish defence and taking the ball to line without setting up the next play he put his team under huge pressure, I believe he should of been kicking for territory or taking the tackle to set up another phase rather than trying to force a miracle ball at every play all he did was put his team under huge pressure, he alwso made some telling breaks but held the ball just that little bit too long – I am not picking on Cooper however, his spot is a very visible one he has the 2nd most touches of the ball on attack and when he err’s is very visible even by non rugby fans – BTW – whats your pecking order of world 1st 5′s is Cooper in the top 5?
1. Carter (Can run and defend and kick accurately out of hand..Team first)
2. Wilko (as above…)
3. Sexton (Ran the game well, does own a running game accurate out of hand)
4. Contempomi (English game…)
5. Trinh Duc
6. ? Flood, O’Gara, Preistland, Jones, Parks
None of these guys can dance as well as Cooper who knows maybe they can…but thats been tempered with solid consistent play for the good of their respective teams…… but then again thats not what playing 10 is about…its actually about game management whether the team is going forward or backward and the backward is a BIG part ofn this spot how you perform.
OWN THE REALITY….Lol
Please never ever ever compare him to carter thats just embarassing…..OWN THE REALITY,
September 19th 2011 @ 7:39pm
Sprigs said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:39pm | Report comment
The thing is we watched the mighty Reds win…
September 20th 2011 @ 1:53am
Gerhard van Lamp said | September 20th 2011 @ 1:53am | Report comment
There is absolutely no correlation between S15 and international rugby…especially when looking at knock-out internationals.Maybe that’s Australia’s problem?
September 19th 2011 @ 9:38pm
Mario said | September 19th 2011 @ 9:38pm | Report comment
Contempomi only played part of the English game before being injured, he is normally an inside center for Argentina anyway with there first choice (Hernandez) being injured. Wilkinson would be no where near the top on current form, but agree with your placing on Sexton, Priestland isn’t to bad either.
September 27th 2011 @ 2:04pm
james linz said | September 27th 2011 @ 2:04pm | Report comment
rules to allow running in big rugby matches? its really simple, 3 points for penalty and drop goals is too much and just falls straight into the laps of boring NH teams. as long as this exists, big games involving NH team will be boring to watch and bad for the game from a global growth perspective. the Irish won fair and square, the wallabies failed to adapt, but i really hope that whatever SH team gets to the final, shows the NH what real entertaining, running, rugby is all about. and please, to all those NH supporters who are about to argue your style of rugby is as entertaining as ours, read this quote from ex english coach Clive Woodward.
“They have to remember that they are not there to entertain – just to make sure they score more points than the opposition.”
i think it is fair to say there is something seriously wrong with a sport, when entertainment is not the focus of the rules.
September 19th 2011 @ 7:50am
jamesb said | September 19th 2011 @ 7:50am | Report comment
you never know………..italy could beat ireland in the final pool match and relagate ireland away from top spot.
FWIW: when Australia have a strong scrum with a tough forward pack, thats when Australia are a chance to win a world cup.
Do the wallabies have that?
I get the feeling will know the answer to that question sooner rather than later. That could mean bad news.