Time’s up for Elsom and Mumm in Australian rugby
By kingplaymaker, 12 Apr 2012 kingplaymaker is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- Joe Tomane, Quade Cooper, Rocky Elsom, Rugby Union, Super Rugby, wallabies
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The Wallabies’ recent woes have been the result of a lack of power in the forwards and to a lesser degree in the backs, as well as the broader issue of a drastic shortfall in quality.
Last year dazzling players such as Quade Cooper and Digby Ioane were left with opportunity to work their magic, such was the one-way bulldozing underway in front of them.
The great hope for the series against the Lions next year is that this season some monsters will appear in both departments to redress this problem.
In the backs the only promising player of any size is Joe Tomane, who has only played two games and so is still very much a hope rather than anything more. Players promised as stars such as Chris Feauai-Sautia, Jordan Rapana and UJ Seuteni are smaller, and in any case coincidentally injured almost before firing a shot, to the great anguish of everyone concerned with Australian rugby.
But the backline is not where the real difficulties lie, although any team that has to field Pat Mccabe and Anthony Faiingaa is a few yards short of enough pure talent.
At seven, wonderful back-up or even starting candidates have emerged in the form of Michael Hooper and Liam Gill, but these are not really what are so desperately required. Nor is a player like Ben Mowen, for all his virtues. He is not a beastly wrecking-ball.
Instead the Wallabies need towering Herculeses, 400-pound bench-pressing bulls who can hammer back the opposition in both attack and defence. Potential in this department has proved elusive in Australian rugby, doubtless because rugby league has strutted off with all the biggest talent at junior level.
(Note, Lopeti Timani and Joe Tomane are league recruits, or rather re-recruits, in that their original game was rugby and they were plucked from its bosom by league scouts.)
The three saviours who may or may not be materialising are the Timani brothers at the Waratahs, and Ita Vaea at the Brumbies. There could be long arguments over the nature and extent of Vaea’s talent, but it seems clear that Sitaleki and Lopeti Timani are at least worth further viewing.
The Wallabies indeed already have two outstanding powerhouse forwards in Wycliff Palu and Tatafu-Polota-Nau, but these players are rarely fit. In order for the pack to be competitive they only need two players out of those so far mentioned.
If the two Timanis and Vaea are fully developed by the end of this Super season, so that they could then play a full international season if successful, then Australia would be in good shape to take on the Lions.
Except there is an obstacle, or rather an individual representing a culture that lets down its talent at every stage. Michael Foley has two ageing players long past their prime in Dean Mumm and Rocky Elsom, and two up-and-coming stars in the Timani brothers.
A coach outside the Waratahs and possibly Australia would jettison the first two and introduce the Timanis as quickly as possible, and indeed it is Foley’s failure to do this that could well have cost the Waratahs their finals place already.
Moreover, he should stop thinking that Lopeti Timani is only a number 8 who can replace Palu earlier than the latter deserves, and move him to six in order to create a back row of vast power.
But how could he drop two highly experienced players, strong, committed leaders, with scores of Wallaby caps? Everywhere in Australia the same pattern is at work. Age, experience and personality are put far ahead of talent to the detriment and indeed destruction of the Super and national teams’ hopes.
Indeed, it should be asked, given New South Wales’ position as the state producing 41 percent of the country’s players, are there better backs than Adam Ashley-Cooper who aren’t allowed in the squad because they aren’t as established as he is? Are such players possibly lost to Australian rugby altogether? Are there young talents, superior to Dean Mumm, that fail to make the cut because of his seniority and lofty presence?
For the immediate future, one thing is clear: any players who hope to take part in the Lions series will probably have to appear this year in order to be experienced enough in international rugby for next year.
That means the lies of Chris Feauai-Sautia, Jordan Rapana, UJ Seuteni, Ita Vaea and especially the Timanis must be introduced to the highest level this year if they are going to be prepared. Any new contenders introduced into the system next season may well be too late.
The Timanis seem to be the main hope. But will Michael Foley be brave enough to forsake his life-long attachment to old friend Rocky Elsom and grizzled warrior Dean Mumm?
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April 12th 2012 @ 3:49am
bluerose said | April 12th 2012 @ 3:49am | Report comment
good article, you should also mention Simmons of the Reds, kick him out and let the Reds recruit the Timani brothers to replace the aging Samo and Simmons, a Kepu, TPN, S-Timani, L-Timani, Pocock, Palu pack looks scary on paper, thats alot of Polynesian muscles right there, its not too late for the Wallabies selectors to trial Tomane against Scotland, i mean it will only benefit the Wallabies in the long run
April 12th 2012 @ 8:45am
The Bush said | April 12th 2012 @ 8:45am | Report comment
Simmons is 22 – let’s give him a few more seasons before we throw him on the scrap heap.
April 12th 2012 @ 5:11am
mania said | April 12th 2012 @ 5:11am | Report comment
PI’s represent. reading this article you’d think it was about a pacific island team. cool so all my cuzzies who need jobs can come to aus and play rugby
April 12th 2012 @ 6:21am
Peter said | April 12th 2012 @ 6:21am | Report comment
Agree with your well thought out article and your selections for the upcoming trio. Just wish that Jake White would allow Vaea to play at his natural 8 position and stop the experimenting with Hooper. Guts, power and strength is what these 3 player have so give em a go….
April 12th 2012 @ 4:24pm
ilikedahoodoogurusingha said | April 12th 2012 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
Looks like your prayers have been answered in parts…..back row for this saturday against the Rebels is Mowen 6, Hooper 7, Auelua 8, Vaea and Kimlin on the bench, Carter and Fardy locks, Murphy, Moore Palmer front row.
April 12th 2012 @ 7:22am
Naranja said | April 12th 2012 @ 7:22am | Report comment
Surprisingly good post, KM. For the last couple of seasons few people have seen Mumm as a viable player. Rocky may come charging back now he knows for sure that his Wallaby jersey is tenuous. Vicks really wants to play against the Lions and if he comes back in good shape he could surplant Simmons because he needs surplanting. Palu doesn’t get out in the backs enough. If they encourage him to do that, be a real ball carrier, he could be a successor to Kef.
There are at least two big questions right now – how the Timanis will do, if given the chance, in a test, and how Quade will do in the 4N once he returns. If he’s over his NZ horrors, we’ll have a playmaker. If not, the search will just have to go on (unless JOC tears up the Welsh in June).
April 12th 2012 @ 8:27am
formeropenside said | April 12th 2012 @ 8:27am | Report comment
We know the answer for Timani senior, v Samoa last year. The answer is not well.
April 12th 2012 @ 8:42am
kingplaymaker said | April 12th 2012 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Naranja it’s true how the Timanis do is an unknown. It seems Foley is determined for us not to discover the answer.
fos you can’t judge Timani on one cap, let alone in a team misfiring as badly as the Wallabies were that day. Players need not only a few caps but more importantly to play in a harmonious team to show their wares.
April 12th 2012 @ 11:08am
jameswm said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:08am | Report comment
That’s one test fos. I think he deserves more of a chance than that, frankly.
April 12th 2012 @ 11:11am
formeropenside said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:11am | Report comment
Seeing as he got that one cap on the back of three good Super Rugby games over 4 years, I think its fair enough.
April 12th 2012 @ 7:26am
Ihatelaki said | April 12th 2012 @ 7:26am | Report comment
Jordan Rapana? Really?
I dont think the issue is back rowers – Aus has an abundance of them…
Id be scouring heaven and earth to find some props!
April 12th 2012 @ 12:01pm
Denby said | April 12th 2012 @ 12:01pm | Report comment
If we actually sellect our form props in there correct position, props are okay.
Kepu and Palmer at tighhead
Robinson and Alexander at loosehead.
We could do with more but the situation is improving.
My main concern is our centres.
April 12th 2012 @ 9:19pm
ihatelaki said | April 12th 2012 @ 9:19pm | Report comment
ill probably get laughed out odthe building for this obe but i would take a punt on someone like keiran longbottom – when given the chance he seems to show that he can trouble opposing t/h ‘s… in saying that pek cowan has been playing put of his skin and imo deserves another crack..
April 13th 2012 @ 12:25pm
sittingbison said | April 13th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
im not laughing, they are both outstanding this year, the Force scrum has really improved and matched everything thrown at it so far
April 12th 2012 @ 7:55am
rl said | April 12th 2012 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Good read KPM – totally agree re the forwards. But, to be fair to Foley, the onus is on the younger brigade to put their hands up through good performance. If they were consistently out-pointing the Mumms etc at training and on the paddock, then they’d be making their own case for promotion. I’m assuming he considers the Timanis are still short of full fitness? But given the current standings, he may as well have them in at the start and let them play out 50-60 mins before bringing Mumm on.
I’m not so convinced that Rocky is out the door, yet – unlike Mumm, he hasn’t had the opportunity to make his case on the paddock.
BTW – benching 400 pounds ain’t the be-all – unless you think the ABs tactic this year is to plank while our players lift them. For what it matters, I’m comfortable that the Wallabies are recording similar results to their rivals in strength tests. Where we have been losing lately is the muscle in the heart and moreso between the ears.
I continue to disagree with your view on picking monsters-for-monsters-sake in the backs – I still fervently believe (hope?) that a midfield comprised of some combo of Cooper/JOC/Lealiifano/AAC/Tapuai (or even Inman) will hold it’s own in defence and run rings around the opposition in attack. The proof will be in this years performances I guess, because that monster you are hoping for isn’t there.
April 12th 2012 @ 8:46am
kingplaymaker said | April 12th 2012 @ 8:46am | Report comment
RL you raise the interesting question of how necessary monsters are for a team to win. I wouldn’t say that they are necessary from 1-15, but two or three in the forwards and backs are probably essential in the modern age. The Wallabies had none in the backs last year, or rather no good ones, but it was in the forwards they really suffered. There the New Zealand and South African packs had superb and powerful players who could blitz the Wallabies midgets, and it was a question of size deciding the issue. Of course by monsters one means good monsters. Kaino/Nonu are good monsters.
April 12th 2012 @ 10:15am
rl said | April 12th 2012 @ 10:15am | Report comment
KPM, you and I can at least agree on the forwards – we were completely outmatched in all aspects of forward play. But I don’t think it was a question of strength, more of commitment – “it’s not the size of the dog in the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog”. With the exception of Pocock, our dogs were pretty tame. The Wallabies forwards aren’t midgets, they just played like it.
April 13th 2012 @ 1:27am
Ben S said | April 13th 2012 @ 1:27am | Report comment
‘There the New Zealand and South African packs had superb and powerful players who could blitz the Wallabies midgets’
SA had a smaller pack than Australia. Likewise NZ.
April 12th 2012 @ 10:33am
Markus said | April 12th 2012 @ 10:33am | Report comment
That Rocky hasn’t had the opportunity to make his case on the Super Rugby paddock for over 18 months now is kind of the point. Unless he has a magical recovery and can start delivering 80 minute performances week in week out, he does not deserve a look in, and should sadly be resigned to the list of talented but crocked Wallaby blindside flankers (alongside Hugh McMeniman and Daniel Heenan).
April 12th 2012 @ 11:04am
MattyP said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:04am | Report comment
For what it’s worth – legend has it that Tony Daily was picked out of obscurity for precisely that (being seen benching 400 pounds) and shortly after was scoring a World Cup-winning try. Not saying it’s the be all and end all, but pure gym strength absolutely does translate into performance on the paddock, along with stamina and skills training.
April 12th 2012 @ 11:21am
rl said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:21am | Report comment
yeah, and didn’t Kearnsy have 5% body fat?
April 12th 2012 @ 11:29am
MattyP said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Lol yeah maybe it was an urban myth at the time. (Must say as a young prop I worked like crazy on my strength after hearing it and it certainly did a lot for my game.)
But he was picked very young and was clearly very strong in dynamic/impactful. Stats aside, that’s the mould I’d like to see more Wallaby forwards picked from.
April 12th 2012 @ 8:03am
Fetus said | April 12th 2012 @ 8:03am | Report comment
I completely agree that there are players not longed for Australian rugby and who are holding development back. In saying that roar has countless articles about the lack of depth. I think it’s more an issue of recruitment by the other Australian provinces. The conference system still needs mumms and elsoms for the rookies to play and develop against.
As for your theoretical forward pack I think you will find the scrum will be excellent but it would lack clean ball at the breakdown. Richie is still the best number seven in the game and he does not have an intimidating frame. Size isn’t everything gill proved that against vaea on Friday night reds clearly won the breakdown
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April 12th 2012 @ 9:30am
nickoldschool said | April 12th 2012 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Agree. I still see the likes of Mum and Elsom (and Vicks) play a role at SR level but not with the wallabies. Post rwc year, time to move on.
April 12th 2012 @ 12:25pm
kingplaymaker said | April 12th 2012 @ 12:25pm | Report comment
Fetus and NOS, firstly Mumm and Elsom should not be at the same franchise as the Timanis. With doubtless more young talent available than any other franchise, it’s baffling that the Waratahs are buying in ancient players such as Elsom and AAC. this stockpiling of talent at one franchise weakens the others too.
As for a theoretical pack, in a year or so how about: Robinson, TPN, Kepu, S.Timani, L.Timani, Vaea, Pocock, Palu. At least there’s some power there!
April 13th 2012 @ 1:28am
Ben S said | April 13th 2012 @ 1:28am | Report comment
And who runs the lineouts and restarts in that pack?
April 12th 2012 @ 8:49am
Manoa said | April 12th 2012 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Whilst I do agree with a number of your sentiments KPM, I think you massively overate the ability and talent of the players in the NRL. In fact the standard of football in Australia across both codes is junk. I will never accept losing a rugby league world cup to NZ, but unfortunately that is where ‘rugby’ is at in this country.
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April 12th 2012 @ 9:29am
kingplaymaker said | April 12th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Manoa while rugby league may not have 15 strong teams, as has been said recently on here if it compressed its playing talent into 10 teams they would be formidably strong. Playing numbers are far higher than rugby and so it has very many outstanding players. Of course, many of these players were league and union juniors, and even played for Australian schoolboys and for example NSW under-16s, so could easily have become rugby’s players and strengthened the current franchises.
April 12th 2012 @ 9:42am
RedSkippy said | April 12th 2012 @ 9:42am | Report comment
So lets go to the elephant in the room – why is Elsom so highly regarded when his best form was a a long time ago in Ireland? And what of that form have we seen since his return to Australia? And why do we keep playing him in starting line ups or squads when his run of injuries suggest it will be some time before he plays his way back into form? To be at his best he needs to be very fit, highly athletic and at his ball running best as without that he is just another of many number six options some of which you name here.
April 12th 2012 @ 9:57am
Justin said | April 12th 2012 @ 9:57am | Report comment
And even funnier for me is that he doesnt, after all his time out from injury, gain match fitness at club rugby level. He has the arrogance, as do the coaches, to think he can just go straight into top level rugby with virtually no game time under his belt.
At least Barnes went back to Uni and got plenty of match time under his belt which meant he had the fitness and touch to perform at the higher level when required.
April 12th 2012 @ 10:02am
mania said | April 12th 2012 @ 10:02am | Report comment
has anyone read elsoms book? read a couple pages and got sick of it pretty quick. he is up himself and writes it from a 3rd person narrative trying to be like caesar when he sent his reports home to be read to the senate and the people. its annoying as elsom tries to portray himself as an intellect but it just out as narcissism.
anyway, rocky should never have gone to ireland as when he came back he was below par and hasnt regained his former athelecism since. i’d be surprised if deans drops him though.i was surprised rocky was in the WC squad after getting dropped as captain.
April 12th 2012 @ 11:27am
Jagman said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:27am | Report comment
In his defense he didn’t write that book. Was written by one of the journalists from the Australian.
April 12th 2012 @ 11:29am
mania said | April 12th 2012 @ 11:29am | Report comment
oh still a painful read. should get a better ghost writer
April 12th 2012 @ 6:52pm
Sprigs said | April 12th 2012 @ 6:52pm | Report comment
How was the punctuation and grammar?
April 12th 2012 @ 10:30am
kingplaymaker said | April 12th 2012 @ 10:30am | Report comment
RedSkippy it’s remarkable that Elsom was so valued on the basis of his Ireland form. He was certainly not playing at international level, and many would say below Super level. And yet he was frequently referred to as the best 6 in the world on that basis. It perhaps goes to show that what passes as hearsay is frequently overvalued. His is now 29 and made his debut 7 years ago. How many 29 year-olds whose form has declined long ago become what they were…