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Great to be eight! Crusaders conquer Lions to take another title

Diggercane Roar Guru

By Diggercane, Diggercane is a Roar Guru & Live Blogger

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    The Crusaders have been crowned Super Rugby champions for 2017 after defeating the Lions at Emirates Airlines Park in Johannesburg by 25 points to 17 in a hard fought and composed performance in front of over 60,000 fans.

    The Lions started the match full of intent, seemingly determined to not make another slow start after the last two matches, however they could not quite find their cohesion and accuracy early.

    An early mistake at a ruck saw Ryan Crotty swoop on the loose ball and pop to his winger Seta Tamanivalu who would run 70 meters untouched to open the scoring for the visitors, duly converted by Richie Mo’unga for an early 7-0 lead.

    Elton Jantjies kicked the restart out on the full and the Crusaders, from halfway built a superb attack, which they swept into the Lions 22 and with quick ball, centre Jack Goodhue was released on the outside to score in the corner and the Crusaders had raced to an early lead.

    The Lions fought their way back into the match, dominating for periods as they looked to strike back but poor handling at times let them down though they did manage a penalty to Jantjies to reduce some of the deficit.

    That was before disaster struck for the host side, flanker Kwagga Smith colliding with David Havili, who had leapt to take a high ball and landed awkwardly on his back.

    After consultation with the TMO, referee Jaco Peyper deemed the challenge reckless and issued a red card, reducing the Lions to 14 for the balance of the contest in what proved to be a match-defining decision.

    Richie Mo’unga landed a penalty on the stroke of halftime and the Crusaders had a healthy advantage of 15-3 at the break.

    The Crusaders picked up where they left off at halftime, immediately surging onto attack and the Lions eventually cracked with Kieran Read barging over.

    With the conversion the Crusaders were looking comfortable at 22-3, and even more so after more pressure resulted in another penalty to Mo’unga and the lead stretched by another three.

    To their credit, the Lions certainly did not die wondering as they increased their intensity and pace as they fought valiantly to bring themselves back into the match.

    For a brief moment, they certainly looked capable after securing two tries to pull the margin back to eight points despite the numerical disadvantage.

    However, their lineout failed at key moments and the Crusaders’ composure saw them close out the match and secure the franchise’s eighth Super title and first since 2008.

    A Rotundity and happy ex hooker who just loves Rugby really, oh and my kids and Kendra of course who lets me watch as much Rugby as I want, mostly. Follow Digby Ross on Twitter @Diggercane.

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    The Crowd Says (335)

    • August 6th 2017 @ 1:56am
      Sylvester said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:56am | ! Report

      Best of the eight?
      Or was it the first against star-studded Blues. Or the unbeaten season?

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 1:59am
        The Saint said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:59am | ! Report

        This has to be the best of the eight… travel, altitude and a fullhouse at Jo-burg.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 2:24am
          taylorman said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:24am | ! Report

          Yes hard to beat that. Two overseas titles, amazing effort.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 8:07am
          PB said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:07am | ! Report

          but, red card tilted the game. Not Saders fault, but still true.

          Best of eight was Brumbies in Canberra.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 8:19am
            Fionn said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:19am | ! Report

            Worst of the eight*

            • August 6th 2017 @ 10:23am
              Sylvester said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:23am | ! Report

              Dreadful game.

      • August 6th 2017 @ 10:02am
        Diggercane said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:02am | ! Report

        Dunno Sylvester, for me the first against the heavily favoured Blues in 98 was a fairly huge result I thought, as a season 2011 still has to be up there all things considered while 2000 was the hat trick year. Each to their own I guess.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 5:24pm
          cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:24pm | ! Report

          maybe 2011 is the best of 12 finals the crusaders have been in 🙂

          and IMO the super 12 victories are much better becoz they had to play all teams.

          also both SA and OZ offered much more resistance those days …..

    • Roar Guru

      August 6th 2017 @ 1:58am
      biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:58am | ! Report

      Congratulations Crusaders, best team won in the end.

      Commisserations to the Lions Supporters

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 2:13am
        Kia Kaha said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:13am | ! Report

        Cheers BB. Huge game by the boys in the second half.

        Really happy for the Crusaders. Had a shaky start but shows the value of winning and gaining momentum. Some great escapes and that defence sure had its work cut out this afternoon.

        This one feels as sweet as the first title. Let’s not underestimate the travel toll. The overwhelming home advantage wins through for a very good reason.

        • Roar Rookie

          August 6th 2017 @ 2:46am
          Paulo said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:46am | ! Report

          Cheers BB, tough game, and I never comfortable knowing what the Lions were capable of. Most painful state of being is remembering a future you cannot have – if the Red Card never happened what would have been?

          • August 6th 2017 @ 7:20am
            Ryan said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:20am | ! Report

            And if the yellow card never happened last week would the Lions have even made the final?

            • Roar Guru

              August 6th 2017 @ 10:04am
              Diggercane said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:04am | ! Report

              Yes, I believe so Ryan such was the dominance of the Lions and the fact that the defence of the Hurricanes never reached the same heights of last season.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 10:40am
                Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:40am | ! Report

                Digger without BB on for 10 it was the attack that suffered as well as the defence….

              • Roar Guru

                August 6th 2017 @ 10:49am
                Diggercane said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:49am | ! Report


              • August 6th 2017 @ 7:47pm
                cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:47pm | ! Report

                while all this was going on – USIAN BOLT ran his final 100m race , and ended up losing to Gatlin and a new boy.

                in fact Bolt lost a 100 for the first time in like ages , to the new boy in semi finals.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 10:15pm
                taylorman said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:15pm | ! Report

                Christian Coleman, the new force in the 100m, still the quickest n the event this year, big future.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 11:30am
            Dave Stevens said | August 6th 2017 @ 11:30am | ! Report

            Your right paulo. At least the ref got the red card right this week.
            If the ref got it right last week, the lions prob wouldnt have been in the final

            • Roar Guru

              August 6th 2017 @ 1:25pm
              biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

              So when a kiwi is sent off the card is automatically deemed incorrect.

              Are you actually reading what you are writing?

              • August 6th 2017 @ 2:35pm
                Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:35pm | ! Report

                So Jaco was a great ref this week and a terrible ref last week. Both calls were correct, BB got his 3rd yellow in a season and Kwagga his first red.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 5:30pm
                Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:30pm | ! Report

                Very dodgy call last week but 100% spot on this week. Only on the card ruling tho…He still missed 2 early Lions knock-ons but the Saders won so his dodgy decisions didnt affect the outcome

            • August 6th 2017 @ 2:38pm
              Chivas said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:38pm | ! Report

              I think that quite frankly is BS and wishful thinking. The tide had already turned along with the flow of points when Barrett got sent from the field for 10.

              Now I don’t agree with him being sent,but it was what it was and how the ref called it. But to suggest that this was what lost the game when the Canes came into the second half on a 20 point lead is beyond ridiculous and it is these sort of daft suggestions being pushed on the roar that lowers the bar.

              I sometimes wonder whether some people like the game or just like to see their team win and when they don’t look for excuses no matter how weak to suggest it could have been a different outcome and how unlucky their team was.

              Lions 100% deserved to be there and earned that right.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 5:31pm
                Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:31pm | ! Report

                Wasnt it 22-10 at half time last week? And 22-17 3 mins after half time?

              • August 6th 2017 @ 7:58pm
                Chivas said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:58pm | ! Report

                Sorry, yes it was Jacko. The Lions struck back after half-time and closed in, till the scores were locked where both teams were scrapping it out.

                I thought the Lions were making less mistakes and applying more pressure.

                My comment was more to the point that the Lions were lucky to be in the finals. I don’t think they were at all. And to suggest otherwise smacks of sour grapes.

                I think BB was hard done by, but that is the way it goes sometimes. It was 10 mins he was off for and the points advantage they had gained in the first half wasn’t lost because BB went from the field.

                To suggest that the Canes got dudded of the win because of some hypothetical that he would have somehow otherwise won the game is quite frankly nonsense imho and quite disrespectful of the way the Lions fought their way ahead from a deficit to quite a generous points win.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 6:38pm
                ClarkeG said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:38pm | ! Report

                turn of the tide and flow of points ….yes but then you could also say that at 22 – 22 the Hurricanes rather easily responded with a converted try to take it out to 29 – 22.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 8:25pm
                Chivas said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:25pm | ! Report

                I agree with that too Clarke. I think it was really unfortunate BB went from the field, because it was looking like a decent scrap and BB is so integral to the Hurricanes. But too sides should be able to compensate when their best player goes from the field for 10 mins. Look at the Highlanders. While they frustrate me to death as a Waikato and Chiefs supporter, they just step up a gear in the face of adversity. I thought the Lions did the same in that game with the things in their control and deserved it.

                As an aside, how long before you think before Sopoaga gets s decent crack at the Black jersey. I have thought at times his game is prone to mistakes, but over the past few seasons he just doesn’t seem to offer them up at any level and I personally think he deserves a genuine look at. Any perception I have had of this Otago team has been completely blown away by the way they have consistently taken it to every team over the past few years.

                I know he won’t be given a shot at the Bledisloe, but I would love to see it. So much respect for him and the homegrown captain… something which Otago has managed to consistently produce.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 8:16pm
                cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:16pm | ! Report

                maybe we can stretch a bit more by saying the Ref could have used the technology a little more. who knows , maybe i was not the only one who thought the try at the end of half was short…..

    • Roar Guru

      August 6th 2017 @ 2:01am
      biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:01am | ! Report

      Jaco Kriel what a heartfelt moment. Well done son, you make your country proud

      • August 6th 2017 @ 2:23am
        taylorman said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:23am | ! Report

        Yes thought that was a lot of passion there. He’s going to be great to watch in the RC. They said Boks side would be named shortly…

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 10:05am
        Diggercane said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:05am | ! Report

        Class fellow BB

      • August 6th 2017 @ 10:44am
        Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:44am | ! Report

        Perhaps he should have cared whether he won or lost….Didnt see anythig heartfelt or passionate at all….

        • August 7th 2017 @ 2:01am
          pim said | August 7th 2017 @ 2:01am | ! Report

          Wow Jacko… not sure which interview you watched with Jaco Kriel…or is it just this one eyed jaundiced view you seem to have.

          • August 7th 2017 @ 9:59am
            Jacko said | August 7th 2017 @ 9:59am | ! Report

            The one straight after the game where he said he didnt care if they won or lost

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 11:53am
        Ralph said | August 6th 2017 @ 11:53am | ! Report

        What a wonderful side the Lion’s have been this year, they should be very proud of their season. Worthy finalists and commiserations to them.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 12:42pm
          Tommy said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:42pm | ! Report

          Your joking right!. you for got to mention that they Allso had the easiest run out of all the super rugby teams this yeah yet they still lost BAHAHA.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 12:48pm
            Fionn said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:48pm | ! Report

            Some of the comments on this are really obnoxious, and, more than that, just mean and nasty. This is a prime example.

            Luckily most fans don’t have your attitude or else there wouldn’t be much point in continuing Super Rugby.

            • Roar Guru

              August 6th 2017 @ 1:26pm
              biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:26pm | ! Report

              Agree fionn, the quality of posters being allowed on this site is really going backwards faster than the demise of Super Rugby

              • August 6th 2017 @ 1:55pm
                SaKiwiRoo said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:55pm | ! Report

                I fully agree BB that why I seldom post anymore.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 5:21pm
                Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:21pm | ! Report

                BB its funny how you led the anti kiwi abuse last week yet when you lose you want everybody to be nice to you…Typical…can give but cant take…

              • Roar Guru

                August 6th 2017 @ 6:46pm
                Ralph said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:46pm | ! Report

                As a kiwi I don’t find BB anti kiwi at all.

                We’re all entitled to be in favour of our own team, and this final was heavily influenced by officiating. As a die hard Crusaders supported I wish the card had been yellow and not red.

                I choose to believe my Crusaders would have done it anyway and to win against 14 has diminished our achievement.

                I am over the moon that we won, but I am gutted there was a red card.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 10:51pm
                Ryan said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:51pm | ! Report

                You can talk fella. You were basically sent packing from this sight a year or so ago because of the exact behaviour you accuse others of. I still see elements of your bullying behaviour and your at times obnoxious rants and sarcastic taunts directed at those who disagree with you.
                You may know a few things about rugby but you are no saint and never have been, I would go as far as saying the Roar was a much better and friendlier forum when you weren’t here.

              • Roar Guru

                August 7th 2017 @ 1:54am
                biltongbek said | August 7th 2017 @ 1:54am | ! Report

                Ryan, i was never sent packing mate, I left after some distasteful and ignorant people.

                Seems it is time for me to vacate this site permanently, the number of keyboard warriors are on the rise.

              • August 7th 2017 @ 10:01am
                Jacko said | August 7th 2017 @ 10:01am | ! Report

                Bye BB

            • August 6th 2017 @ 4:08pm
              ChrisG said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:08pm | ! Report

              I agree. Dreadful comment from Tommy.

              I read this morning the Welllington RU have started a campaign fronted by Rodney So’ialo to encourage fair behaviour by spectators at matches. Tommy could learn from this

          • August 6th 2017 @ 2:38pm
            Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:38pm | ! Report

            Untasteful and factually flawed opinion

            • August 6th 2017 @ 5:25pm
              Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:25pm | ! Report

              Didnt seem to bother you last week when handing out the untastful and factually incorrect abuse. So arrogant when you win and all sookie when you lose…I thought that was Biltongbek…

              • August 6th 2017 @ 8:33pm
                Chivas said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:33pm | ! Report

                Aren’t you the one making it personal with these comments Jacko? I saw some SA supporters sharing their opinion in the face of questions of bias. I am missing the part where Biltong or Hannes have resorted to comments like Tommy’s or are writing about all the ways they think they have been ripped off repeatedly like you were last week.

                Maybe your own passionate patriotism has clouded your opinion of what got said and how personal it was. Anyway maybe if I read on I will see all these SA comments on perceived bias and untasteful personal attacks.

    • August 6th 2017 @ 2:07am
      Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:07am | ! Report

      Congratulations Crusaders with the win. The game was won in the first half, although the Lions won the second half with 14 players as a consulation prize. Jaco Peyper had a good game and proved best is better than neutral and red card was the correct but tragic decision as it killed the contest. Kwagga will get a longer rest with a ban coming his way as well as his team mates will not be impressed with him. I thought the Lions missed Whiteley tonight even if it was only to keep Kwagga out of the side.

      • Roar Rookie

        August 6th 2017 @ 2:49am
        Paulo said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:49am | ! Report

        True Sentiment about the Red Card. But tough to really pin it on him; correct call to send him, but hard to say he was deliberately being that dangerous, reckless for sure, but not malicious.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 6:42am
          taylorman said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:42am | ! Report

          Yea for me there’s a large element of luck in those things that just doesn’t look right.

          Every advantage goes with the jumper and I think with the frequency something happens in these situations sides seem to be encouraged to ‘get the ball up and get someone under it’ a lot, half knowing something could come of it, a red here critical to the teams success if it’s delivered early enough.

          With this one it did look as though he got caught out not knowing how to deal with it before it quickly became to late.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 9:07am
            soapit said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:07am | ! Report

            yep pretty sure he was going to hammer him on the basis he wasnt going to jump and then the jump came and “oh Shtt!”

            hard to imagine a worse outcome tho so if theres ever gonna be red for these without intent thats got to be one. i woulda been mighty tempted my to keep it at yellow myself tho given the occasion.

            players will just have to assume a jump is coming always.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 10:30am
              Sylvester said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:30am | ! Report

              “players will just have to assume a jump is coming always.”

              This the key point. The way DH was coming at the ball suggested he was going to the air. Defenders should, if they can’t get into the air themselves, just always wait for the player to land and try to smash him.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 5:31pm
              cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:31pm | ! Report

              ” pretty sure he was going to hammer him on the basis he wasnt going to jump and then the jump came ”

              oh so ur a mind reader? 😛

              given the depth of the kick , it was always clear the fullback will jump – in other words he had to jump becoz it was a contestable kick.

              also note , there was no screen for the jumper , which sometimes appears in front 🙂

              • August 6th 2017 @ 6:36pm
                soapit said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:36pm | ! Report

                to avoid any confusion the above was only my opinion and i am therefore not a mind reader (at least not one that could be relied on for accurate results)

        • August 6th 2017 @ 7:22am
          Ryan said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:22am | ! Report

          What do you make if Beaudens yellow card last week?
          The Lions benefitted massively from that absurd card but I didn’t see many questioning that call…

          • August 6th 2017 @ 8:44am
            superba said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:44am | ! Report

            No questions re BB call as it was correctv.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 10:18am
              Bakkies said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:18am | ! Report

              Yeah it was correct used it turnover ball after a linebreak

          • August 6th 2017 @ 10:46am
            Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:46am | ! Report

            Totally wrong call against BB…No questions

            • August 6th 2017 @ 11:51am
              Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 11:51am | ! Report

              Both calls we correct Jacko. Already well argued elsewhere.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 5:34pm
                Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:34pm | ! Report

                Everywhere is not just where you read Hannes…There was 3 articles about the bias in the NZ media last week so I guess you missed those…

        • August 6th 2017 @ 9:27am
          mzilikazi said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:27am | ! Report

          Congratulations to the Crusaders….that is a really great win from a highly disciplined and focused team. To beat such a strong Lions team in their own “den” is remarkable.

          I thought the Lions did not, overall, play a sub standard game….just made some poor decisions a few times…not taking three easy points, a few poorly placed kicks, and why do teams go for a lineout when given a penalty within 5 m of the line. Fine if you have a rock solid lineout. But from the tap, the team is assured of ball retention, and can easily set up a rolling maul.

          Also, the lineout option wastes valuable time. The Lions really needed every second in those last minutes.

          Also good to see Jaco Peyper have a good game overall. Feel he is pretty near to being the top man in the world now.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 10:09am
            Harry said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:09am | ! Report

            Agree with you here regarding the lineout. I realize teams want to set up the maul, but it can be a high risk option, and as you say, eats up time.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 10:36am
          puff said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:36am | ! Report

          Paulo, Reckless is another word for undisciplined and irresponsible but whatever word we all use, it was dangerous and the landing could have been far reaching. Smith is a great competitor, had he been actually contesting the ball in the air you could say regretful. Sorry a red everyday of the week. For me the Crusaders looked the goods all match, with the Lions displaying how resilient they were in the last 20. Playing at Ellis in front of a very boisterous home crowd certainly assisted with the Lion’s momentum shift as the clock started to indicate time was no-longer a friend. But, big matches are won during big moments and the Smith red was one of many.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 12:16pm
            elvis said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:16pm | ! Report

            Not even close to a red card, the defender had every right to be where he was, if the catcher wants to jump leading with his knees where is the defender supposed to go? The rules haven’t kept pace with the players athleticism, they used to run to where the ball was coming down and do a bit of upright leap. 20 years ago you wouldn’t see anyone flying through at full pace and jumping almost 2 metres off the ground…

            • August 6th 2017 @ 3:44pm
              puff said | August 6th 2017 @ 3:44pm | ! Report

              Elvis, during the second Lions test in NZ, SBW received a red card for reckless play which was far from premeditated or calculating. Was it a red card, which deserved a four week suspension, that’s how the arbitrators judged it? This again by Kwagga Smith was more than careless, hasty, impulsive play often has a cost attached. The knees aren’t the issue, the fact the player was in the air and Smith tried to inadvertently influence Havili’s landing which could have resulted in serious injury is the issue. The rules are now very pedantic regarding player safety and rightly so. Do you honestly believe Ackermann would have made a comment had a Crusader player been requested to leave. The rules of the code are there to protect the integrity of the game, therefore in accordance with the international rules, its red whether we all agree or not.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 4:53pm
                superba said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:53pm | ! Report

                Puff SBW blow to the head far ftom premeditated. Yes .I agree .
                Far from calculating .Agreed.
                But it was deliberate .He went
                straight for the head with the full force of his bodyweight behind his shoulder .
                A habit from his Rugby League days .
                Red , red , red any day .
                .Every day .

            • August 6th 2017 @ 4:15pm
              ChrisG said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:15pm | ! Report

              Time to read the laws of the game again Elvis. What the laws have done is to protect the player in the air, as they should

      • August 6th 2017 @ 9:46am
        Harryonthcoast said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:46am | ! Report

        All very true! Crusaders great defence proved the defining factor!

      • August 6th 2017 @ 9:46am
        Harryonthcoast said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:46am | ! Report

        All very true! Crusaders great defence proved the defining factor!

      • August 6th 2017 @ 10:44am
        Jibba Jabba said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:44am | ! Report

        Peyper missed 2 obvious Lions knocks on in first 10 minutes, didn’t penalise the lions prop for collapsing early on then did for same infringement late in second half, missed a couple of high tackles, very quickly penalised Tamivalu for deliberate knock down in tackle when obviously not intentional, very average performance with obvious sympathy for Lions so essentially a biased performance – not his best game. But Crusaders played him out of the game – they were very disciplined.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 12:13pm
          Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:13pm | ! Report

          And all of these “calls” were against your side? What about the cases where a one eyed Lions’ supporter would feel they were hard done by e.g. Timivalu could have got yellow, tacklers not rolling away etc….

          Nonsense, he made few mistakes and he was consistent and penalise the clear and obvious. The red card was tough but correct, Smith was not in a realistic position to catch the ball, made contact in the air and the player fell dangerously (neck and shoulders). He clearly did not want to give the red, but his job was to apply the law without favour. This was his most significant call and it was spot on. Give credit where credit is due, Peyper had a good match.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 12:16pm
            Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:16pm | ! Report

            I like the qoute Wally James here: People who allege bias will allege bias because they are biased. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 1:25pm
              zhenry said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

              Quit name calling Hannes and using names as generalised labels: Its alright to criticise, it’s alright to say bias and then give the actual incident, but not as spray gun propaganda. People who feel lazy or don’t have enough ability to analyse do it; McCaw is this, the ABs are that and so on, it works too well in the unprincipled conveyer belt of corp media, where one item displaces another and even lieing denials get to have equal value.
              Power knows this, when they attempt to pass laws that work against the majority.
              Jibba Jabber is probably right he was attempting to keep commenters grounded from ‘gushing wonderful’ referring.
              I am not a Crusaders fan but also agree wth Ackerman about not using red cards and only yellow in extreme circumstances, the punishment can come later. – There is a hollowness to such a victory.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 9:20pm
                Ryan said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:20pm | ! Report

                There is no hollowness in the victory. Good god this forum is full of poor losers and shadow puppets trying to be every ones friend.

                The Crusaders won fair and square, the correct cal, was made wether you like it or not, wether Acjerman likes it or not, his comments in the press conference smacked of sour grapes and highlighted how much of a poor loser he was and the attitude that so many Lions fans and their management expected that they only had to turn up to win.

                Let’s not forget they played a team who had arguably the hardest road to the final of either team, a team who played 8 extremely tough kiwi derbies two of which were finals.
                Travelled halfway around the world to play at altitude in front of 63 000 Lions fans whilst dealing with the effects of travel fatigue.

                Smith is solely to blame for that red card, he put himself in the position to be carded and he also put his opposition at risk of series injury, Peyper had no choice and it was the correct decision. Argue and cry all you like however as it stands the laws of rugby state he must have been carded, it doesn’t matter if it’s a final or not you can not change rules for finals games.

                The Lions were not the best team in Super rugby 2017, they were already playing a team at a serious disadvantage as I stated above and for the same reasons SARU cried and moaned for years about the effects of travel however the Kiwi teams are not afforded the same excuse.

                No matter what your thoughts are on the win it is far from a hollow victory zhenry.

                I look forward to the next conspiracy media theory you come up with though it’s been a while since I have seen your usual spiel about the NZ media being Australian owned and dictating what is printed and or published.

              • Roar Guru

                August 6th 2017 @ 9:31pm
                biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:31pm | ! Report

                ackermann never argued the call was incorrect, and you sir, can learn some class and humility.

                Would love to see you call Ackermann a loser to his face, but then you’re just a keyboard warrior, aren’t you

              • August 6th 2017 @ 10:55pm
                Ryan said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:55pm | ! Report

                Biltong you mean nothing to me, you have no platform to be waving around the roar oral high card.
                Save your holier than thou speeches for keo

              • Roar Guru

                August 7th 2017 @ 1:55am
                biltongbek said | August 7th 2017 @ 1:55am | ! Report

                Ah did I strike a chord little man ryan

            • August 6th 2017 @ 5:37pm
              Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:37pm | ! Report

              Hannes you should quote that little saying to Biltongbek

              • Roar Guru

                August 6th 2017 @ 7:41pm
                biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:41pm | ! Report

                Now I accused people of being biased?

                As of now I am going to ignore your childish comments, you’re only here to stir, I will pay you no further heed.

              • August 7th 2017 @ 10:05am
                Jacko said | August 7th 2017 @ 10:05am | ! Report

                BB should I pick your toys up and put them back in your cot? If you are going then go…

          • August 6th 2017 @ 1:01pm
            Jibba Jabba said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:01pm | ! Report

            Your idea of a few is strange, hope you aren’t an accountant.. he missed a couple of crusaders ones as well, i asked for Lions supporters to identify. They look out for the team they support, but he didn’t apply the law without favour thats just fantasy. .

            He even warned the Lions for pushing through onto support players with illegal clearing out (after it was brought to his attention by Whitelock) but then let it continue to happen… without favour ??? yeah right…

      • August 6th 2017 @ 7:21pm
        Baz said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:21pm | ! Report

        Maybe they do a NZ and organise some games against nobodies to get weeks counted

        • Roar Guru

          August 7th 2017 @ 6:10am
          taylorman said | August 7th 2017 @ 6:10am | ! Report

          Your guys free are they Baz??

      • August 7th 2017 @ 8:26pm
        Notsobrave said | August 7th 2017 @ 8:26pm | ! Report

        You are wrong. A tragic decision by the referee would have been not to red card Kwagga.


        If the referee didn’t send him off because it was a ‘final’, because it was ‘super rugby’ then it is likely to have sent the message that this type of incident was ok and you wuld have seen a number of incidents like it in lower grades of rugby with perhaps tragic consequences.

        This referee sent a very strong message on one of the highest rugby stages to the rugby players of the world that this type of action was not acceptable and he also set the standard for all referees on hat their response should be if a player transgresses.

        The message is unambigious: If you are going to be late to compete for a ball in the air then it is better that you don’t compete at all and stay out of the way of the player catching the ball until they land.

    • Roar Guru

      August 6th 2017 @ 2:07am
      Nobrain said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:07am | ! Report

      Congrats to the Crusaders!!!! simple and effective rugby with a great commitment in defence and tackle.

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 6:55pm
        Ralph said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:55pm | ! Report

        The first half was top quality from the boys. Quick breakdown, crisp passing to the gaps, moving the ball in traffic with short passes. Defence really took away the Lion’s forward attacking platform, they looked under huge pressure and were trying to do too much, too fast. Jantjies was put right off his game.

        Second half. Ah well. Not our fault, but gutted for everyone involved. I hate the idea of red cards, I would rather solely yellows unless a man is actually injured off the field, and then I would allow 15 on the field but not the offender. Anything more serious can be dealt with after the game.

    • Roar Guru

      August 6th 2017 @ 2:13am
      Harry Jones said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:13am | ! Report

      Tough loss. But the smarter team on the day (and the season, really) won deservedly, because of calm savvy and decision-making. We’ll not know how much Whiteley’s absence counted, but I assume that (plus Read being able to play) probably was worth a few points. I thought the always overrated Elton Jantjies was particularly poor in the 1H. Got turned over too easily in the tackle, kicked out on the full, and overused flat and inside passes when the Lions’ speed on the edges was the ticket. Still, I suppose 14 v 15 was never on at this level against smart leaders like Whitelock, Crotty, Read, Dagg. And so, Peypergate was NEVER the story; instead, it was just the players and their errors or big plays.

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 2:32am
        Wally James said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:32am | ! Report

        Agreed Harry. The right team won and for the right reasons.

        There was a match defining decision. By law the send off was the correct decision.

        However most ref decisions are match defining. It comes with the territory.

        Peyper had a good game I thought.

        I think that the SANZAR decision to appoint a referee on merit rather than nationality is the correct decision. People who allege bias will allege bias because they are biased. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

        You never hear a team captain complaining that a decision went against his team.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 4:38am
          Coconut said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:38am | ! Report

          I was one who was a bit suspicious having a home town ref… however since I turned the volume down so as not to wake the kids, I was able to watch him more closely without listening to Marshall or any other commentator, and I am happy to be proved wrong. Peyper reffed fairly, which is all you can ever ask of a ref.
          Commiserations to the Lions, I hadn’t seen them play at all this season (thanks to the time difference and weird conference formula), but they are a very good, good team and deserved to be in the final.
          Congrats to the Crusaders, they have gone through a lot this season, they looked out on their feet in the last 20 mins, but were able to hand on there for the win.
          All in all, a good final – rugby was the winner.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 12:30pm
            moaman said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:30pm | ! Report

            ” without listening to Marshall ” <———-There's always a silver lining somewhere!

            Great occasion graced with a packed stadium, full house, sunny DAY and tight contest by two brave teams.Worth getting up for and couldn't sleep afterwards.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 6:59am
          taylorman said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:59am | ! Report

          Don’t agree. It’s not that he might be biased, it’s the huge perception that he could be biased that builds up unnecessarily before the match.

          Just because Peyper refereed well here doesn’t mean this won’t happen again, in the same way that a neutral Referee won’t make poor decisions. It’s just that when he does, he can’t be accused of bias, towards his own country at least.

          The best Ref versus the next best neutral referee can’t surely be that much of a gap in ability that it’s not worth pursuing the idea. And this coming from me, someone who doesn’t believe there is bias at all, but rather think the complexity of the rules puts referees in so many situations that they can so easily get things wrong.

          Google any long term respected international referee and there will be instances where they’ve been accused of either poor or biased refereeing.

          That is not normal for the average sport, because most sports don’t rely so heavily on one or two people making so many ‘decisions’ during a match or event.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 8:04am
            Fionn said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:04am | ! Report

            I think you’re on the money here, Taylorman. Well said.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 11:41am
            Rhys Bosley said | August 6th 2017 @ 11:41am | ! Report

            “It’s not that he might be biased, it’s the huge perception that he could be biased that builds up unnecessarily before the match.”

            That perception is only huge with New Zealanders because of their habit of obsessively lawyering everything about a rugby game before, during and often long after it has been played, demonstrated again over this refereeing issue. This NZ Herald article about the Reds vs Crusaders grand final in 2011 creates a stark comparison, there was no big fuss from Queenslanders or other Australians about the fact that it was reffed from Australia by a Kiwi, Bryce Lawrence.


            • August 6th 2017 @ 5:44pm
              Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:44pm | ! Report

              Haha do you not remember the carry=on about the Speight no try… Aussies whinging everywhere and the game was won by 30 points. And then there is your own anti Kiwi article which was REMOVED due to its content eh Rhys


              • August 7th 2017 @ 12:05am
                Rhys Bosley said | August 7th 2017 @ 12:05am | ! Report

                That article was removed because you lot threw an enormous sook at a few home truths about how your team was playing and the Roar blinked. As for the Speight business, it was poor call by a ref who had been gotten to by the crowd, but I agree that the carry on was stupid. Does that mean that you have to be too?

            • August 6th 2017 @ 6:03pm
              timber said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:03pm | ! Report

              Rhys, if anyone shows obsessive tendencies, it’s your constant negativity directed at Kiwi fans. Like any other nationality, they have their share of reasonable and unreasonable fans, no need to demonise an entire nationality.

              • August 7th 2017 @ 12:02am
                Rhys Bosley said | August 7th 2017 @ 12:02am | ! Report

                Timber, I grew up in New Zealand so I think I know better than most who have not come from there what their fans and media are like. They take things a bit too far when it comes to rugby which we are seeing here and in the New Zealand Herald, where writers are still carrying on about how justice has been served because the Lions had such an easy run to the final. I personally think it is a shame that they can’t behave in more sporting manner, instead of being disrespectful to the refs and opposing teams, especially when one of their teams has just won. It is unnecessary and that is why I point it out, because it might sink in.

              • August 7th 2017 @ 4:48am
                Tommy said | August 7th 2017 @ 4:48am | ! Report

                Sorry Rhys I disagree?what should happen is’ all super sides play each other once. Top 8 play offs, top four semis
                Top two, finals then all nations wouldn’t be so biased. Yes the lions deserve to be in the final in there own right but to make me belive the lions deserve credit well sorry they didn’t play harded rugby like nz did. They should have done us easy BUT NO

          • August 6th 2017 @ 12:27pm
            Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:27pm | ! Report

            It is a fair point to point out that there could be a perception of bias. This is difficult to avoid as a neutral ref like Steve Walsh, officiated as an Aussie ref was born in NZ or where the result from a game may favour the country of a referee, e.g. Bryce Lawrence in RWC 2011. Or even the referee may favour a team so that he can be the “neutral” ref in the final. Those that like conspiracies have a huge reservoir from hidden agendas to choose from.

            However this needs to be balanced against the need to get a referee that is accurate and peform consistently. Every referee can have a bad day, these are just much less likely for the top referees and even on a bad day the top referees may only get one or two decisions totally wrong. The best neutral referee may get more decisions wrong and will be more inconsistent than the best referee. Also if referees know they are picked on merit they focus on their performance. It is not in their interest to swing a game in their countrymen’s favour.

            Overall I prefer best over neutral and with that come the risk that the supporters of the team my critisize the red. The ref will be critisized even for the decisions he get right as we can see for BB yellow, SBW red and KS’s red cards.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 1:09pm
              Rhys Bosley said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:09pm | ! Report

              The French refs on the Lions tour were neutral, it didn’t stop them being verballed throughout the entire tour though.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 1:34pm
                taylorman said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:34pm | ! Report

                must be hard Rhys coming on here after a Crusaders Super rugby win to pick little negative snippets about Kiwi fans…I mean, why bother? Can’t you just be happy that the best side won??

              • August 6th 2017 @ 2:30pm
                Rhys Bosley said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:30pm | ! Report

                Not really taylorman, I said at the beginning of the season that the Saders were looking like the best team and I am happy for them that they had the win. You lot are the ones who are insisting on all the rules lawyering and sniping at other countries, you have done so yourself a few posts above, and you just don’t seem to get it that it puts a downer on a positive outcome in a pretty poor tournament for everybody. Your loss.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 5:46pm
                Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:46pm | ! Report

                Look at your own article Rhys…the one removed due to it being judges too offencive

          • August 6th 2017 @ 4:26pm
            cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:26pm | ! Report

            in other words – irrespective of who reffed , it is a red card 🙂

            however , peyper was lenient to Lions a little. he gave the Lions pop far too much leeway , whereas he was quick to penalize the crusaders at scrums.

            what people shud be happy is the spirit in which the game was played . apart from a pushing contest between crockett and his opposite late in 2nd half , there was never any silly girly stuff in the whole match. something most teams shud aspire to.

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 2:36am
        biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:36am | ! Report

        Yeah Harry, Jantjies didn’t impress with the last three matches

        • Roar Rookie

          August 6th 2017 @ 2:52am
          Paulo said | August 6th 2017 @ 2:52am | ! Report

          It almost seemed with the speed of the Crusaders defense, that they did to the Lions what the (BIL) Lions did to the All Blacks.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 7:09am
          Back in Black said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:09am | ! Report

          To all of the South Africans who were gloating about a Lions Win all week – may I humbly point out that form is temporary and class is permanent. Would any of these people care to make any predictions for the RC???
          Kia Kaha All Blacks !!!

          • August 6th 2017 @ 7:26am
            rebel said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:26am | ! Report

            Well done captain hindsight.
            There were predictions from both sides.
            Nothing humble there champ, but then again the comment does look a little sus as to it’s origins.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 7:36am
            Fionn said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:36am | ! Report

            ‘May I humbly point out that that form is temporary and class is permanent’.

            Aaaah, the irony…

            • Columnist

              August 6th 2017 @ 8:49am
              Geoff Parkes said | August 6th 2017 @ 8:49am | ! Report

              Yes Fionn. People shouldn’t use words they clearly don’t know the meaning of.

              • August 6th 2017 @ 9:05am
                Stefan said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:05am | ! Report

                Hahahaha ???

              • Roar Guru

                August 6th 2017 @ 10:07am
                Diggercane said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:07am | ! Report


              • August 6th 2017 @ 5:39pm
                Rhys Bosley said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:39pm | ! Report

                Oh good lord, facepalm moment much!

          • August 6th 2017 @ 9:36am
            mzilikazi said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:36am | ! Report

            B in B, I think it is a pity you have posted this comment. Are you now the one gloating ?? What is that achieving ?

            ” form is temporary and class is permanent”….I would point out to you that both teams and nations have back through history shown sheer class. I assume you are aware the Lions are the closest one can get now to the old Transvaal teams.

            I thought the SA posters here on Roar were pretty much level headed, and made predictions based on sound grounds.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 9:47am
              Fionn said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:47am | ! Report

              ‘I would point out to you that both teams and nations have back through history shown sheer class. I assume you are aware the Lions are the closest one can get now to the old Transvaal teams.’

              Well said, mate 🙂

            • August 6th 2017 @ 9:52am
              Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 9:52am | ! Report

              Funny how you spend all week gloating about last week and telling anyone who cares to read your posts that the reffing was fair and equal etc and the Lions would win…and therefore be deserving Champs etc etc having not played an NZ side etc etc then when you and your side loses its all about needing to be polite to you…sounds a lot like sore losing…

          • August 6th 2017 @ 6:27pm
            George said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:27pm | ! Report

            Boks team just got announced last night and they haven’t rewarded Lions but have pushed the quota again. It’s your comp for the taking, not many saffas will tune in, this is not a merit based Bok team. I for one who love the game will be hiking away in the country side, as a tax paying citezin my week ends are precious. Enjoy the ragga 🙂

          • Roar Guru

            August 6th 2017 @ 7:43pm
            biltongbek said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:43pm | ! Report

            Would love to see these gloating comments you refer to.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 10:13am
          Harry said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:13am | ! Report

          Jantjies would fit right in at the Blues.

          • August 6th 2017 @ 10:54am
            Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:54am | ! Report

            Havnt seen a whole lot of Jantjes as they didnt play any NZ sides during the regular season but was massively dissapointed with him as all the hype was painting him as some genius…Hopefully he can improve with some experience at playing better opposition and being able to handle the pressure that brings with it….

            • August 6th 2017 @ 10:58am
              Jibba Jabba said | August 6th 2017 @ 10:58am | ! Report

              He is the Boks Quade Cooper, highly skilled and brilliant at times but under pressure falls to pieces..

            • August 6th 2017 @ 1:02pm
              Hannes said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:02pm | ! Report

              He is the best got at thr moment and shown in the second half what he can do. However he needs good ball to play with and is fairly limited player. Pollard was more of a complete 10 but has been pushed too early and has struggled with injuries ever since.

            • August 6th 2017 @ 5:33pm
              killaku said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:33pm | ! Report

              You could probably fit Beauden in that crowd,Crumbles when the heat is on.Good bench player

            • August 6th 2017 @ 5:50pm
              Jacko said | August 6th 2017 @ 5:50pm | ! Report

              It looked like he didnt handle the pressure all that well and his structured play is lacking…Structure can be learned so no biggie there…but his broken play looks to be his strenth

        • August 6th 2017 @ 1:08pm
          Jibba Jabba said | August 6th 2017 @ 1:08pm | ! Report

          I thought he was pretty good last week against the Canes, rubbish the week before when he missed about 50,000 kicks at goal…

        • August 6th 2017 @ 4:27pm
          cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:27pm | ! Report

          @ biltongbek

          c’mon , am sure u know by now he is not a big match player.

      • Roar Rookie

        August 6th 2017 @ 12:29pm
        Kirky said | August 6th 2017 @ 12:29pm | ! Report

        Harry! Jaco Peyper was eyeballing the ”Roar” comments leading up to the game, but the Crusaders pretty much took him out of the game anyway and he was pretty good!

        The Red card was an unfortunate one and I’m sure it wasn’t deliberate, but that’s what the Law Book says, it was what it was, but it’s debateable as to whether it would have made any difference at the end of the game as the Crusaders brought their ‘A’ game and it was clear they were out to do the business, and they did, they actually cleaned the Lions out in most aspects of the game and showed that they too could use a ”rush defence” which worked.

        The Lions got a lesson today from a very, very, good team of players who complimented each other through the whole game, and they tackled, tackled, and tackled again!

        Congratulations Crusaders and commiserations Lions!

        • August 6th 2017 @ 4:23pm
          ChrisG said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:23pm | ! Report

          Well said Kirky

        • August 6th 2017 @ 4:32pm
          cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 4:32pm | ! Report

          ” it’s debateable as to whether it would have made any difference at the end of the game as the Crusaders brought their ‘A’ game”

          of course it made a difference to the result , given the way lions came back with 2 trys late in the game.

          what u shud keep in mind is that crusaders scored just 10 against 14 men – whereas lions scored 14 with 14 men.

          it was easily seen that the introduction of subs disrupted the crusaders defence – just as the subs for lions sped the game up.

          i will say that the man advantage compensated for the disadvantage of playing at high ground. there is no doubt in my mind crusaders will beat lions at sea level BUT on high ground lions will beat them with 15 men on the park.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 7:27pm
          Baz said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:27pm | ! Report

          15 against 14 for 40m not making any difference what drugs do you take. Of course it makes a difference.
          All the other players have to worm harder to male up for the loss. Etc. It is a game changing decision in the final even if it is correct.

      • Roar Guru

        August 6th 2017 @ 6:57pm
        Ralph said | August 6th 2017 @ 6:57pm | ! Report

        I thought the Lions should have kept driving up the middle until the Crusaders committed there, thus making room outside. Agree the space was out wide, but Lions were too lose trying to get it there.

        • August 6th 2017 @ 7:06pm
          cuw said | August 6th 2017 @ 7:06pm | ! Report

          well last week i said to biltongbek that the Lions centers are not as good as crotty and goody and that Lions will miss Rohan.

          a fully fit and in form Rohan would have been more of a threat …. he showed glimpses of it when he came on.

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