Queensland footy culture is growing without Ablett

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    The AFL’s expansion in Queensland over past few years could be described as patchy at best.

    Somewhere in the vicinity of $100 million was invested by AFL to broaden their reach and depth in the sunny state, but the results haven’t equalled the expenditure.

    With two professional teams – the Brisbane Lions and Gold Coast Suns – the supporter base has grown well with good crowds, but in recent years the on-field success hasn’t materialised, with the Suns not yet having made it to finals. This is a concern for the AFL Commission.

    In their defence the Suns have incurred their fair share of teething problems compounded by an unsettling couple of years of rumours, now proven to be true, that their big-ticket player, Gary Ablett, would re-join Geelong in 2018.

    However, his departure should allow room for rookie onballers like Darcy McPherson and older heads Pearce Hanley and Jarrod Harbrow to get their chance this year.

    Positive off-field factors to assist the Suns this coming year are the appointment of Mark Evans as CEO in 2017, a proven AFL administrator, and the newly appointed senior coach Stewart Dew. Both bring years of experience to Queensland.

    (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)

    The Suns local rivals, the Brisbane Lions, won four flags under coach Leigh Matthews and captain Michael Voss in the early 2000s and had a pretty promising 2017 with new coach Chris Fagan, who recently reflected on the Lions website that “It’s been a great year, I’ve learnt so much about the group”.

    “I think right now, I’m in a good position to know what’s required. And now the other challenge is to execute it to the nth degree and improve next year.”

    The Lions, like all clubs, have had a few major injuries to key players during the year, with both Dayne Beams and Darcy Gardiner missing ten weeks between them. According to Sunshine Footy scouts both are training the house down and eager for the first bounce in 2018.

    With new recruits Cameron Rayner, Charlie Cameron and Luke Hodge, Brisbane is a club keen to build a real culture so that the team can retain young players for the duration of their careers.

    In reality both AFL clubs may struggle to make the top eight in 2018, but supporters have a lot to look forward to. As the last two AFL premiers show, you can turn it around quickly.

    The AFL’s expansion plans focused on the growth not only of the professional league but also at grassroots level, with Auskick experiencing steady participation growth in the last few years, including a six per cent take-up in 2016. Overall participation is up 16.87 per cent according to AFLQ.

    At grassroots level the real challenge is attracting new players each year to top-up ongoing recruitment shortlists. Like semi-professional clubs in Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania, which are always on the lookout for quality players, this recruitment process is very time-consuming.

    Club administrators can make an average of 100 phone calls to secure ten new players, but as the market grows, new recruitment platforms are opening up to facilitate football opportunities in Queensland.

    Queensland is the perfect place to play footy, with more sun than rain and a host of clubs in idyllic locations, from Surfers Paradise to Port Douglas, regularly fielding players, be they ex-professional or amateurs, from the city and the country to join them.

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    The Crowd Says (260)

    • January 13th 2018 @ 1:26pm
      George said | January 13th 2018 @ 1:26pm | ! Report

      Wish people did a bit of homework before commenting on Suns. I guess until Suns start winning that’s what to expect especially from Melbourne based fans. AFL totally screw up Suns set up. McKenna a great coach? He and GM Ashcroft were the worst appointments. You realise that under McKenna Karmichael Hunt successfully developed and maintain cocaine programme from which Bennell successfully graduated. Rocket, as much as old school/outdated coach he was, started to clean up the mess and last year all key admin were replaced. I am confident Suns are finally on the right track. Besides a new coach (who could be a gem as per early signs) and new admin easily the most important change is the first preseason in new facilities. Most people have no idea how terrible conditions Suns trained in. Everybody wanted out? As far as I know only Weller, Prestia, JOM and this year Saad and Ablett. Players like Lynch, May, Martin, Swallow, Wright, Miller, Day all extended under Rocket. If they wanted Suns could keep Smith, Dixon, Bennell, Matera. Lions Rayner extended recently. Suns 4 top ten picks in 2016 extended too before even playing a game. So AFL pumped 100mill. Nobody questions the additional game per week brought by GWS/Suns expansion bringing extra $57mil per year. So actually AFL don’t lose money? In 2016 AFL pumped more money into Saint Kilda and Bulldogs than Suns, even richest clubs got 10-11 mil. Suns got 18 mil and had all those years lowest footy dept budget, half medical staff, etc. If you want to blame someone for Suns situation blame AFL. What an incompetent/amateur organisation. In case of Lions they blew it by themselves when they did not capitalise on winning premierships. In that time they could get a new admin/training facility wherever they wanted. In summary, I believe finally both Lions and Suns are on track. Yes, top level don’t have results but grass root footy in QLD is doing great. Both academies started to produce. For those interested in optimistic view on Suns just watch Barlow’s interview before Christmas on Suns website. Lions main issues is now facilities and also need to get at least 1-2 years into young future stars. Paying over 2 mil for Gabba rent is criminal. Suns have all peaces in place, probably still some changes in assistant coaches and high performance personnel. They just need to put 1-2 years into young midfield players and learn new plan. Suns have a great spine in Lynch, Swallow, May. Players like May, Lynch, Swallow, Martin, Lyons, Hall, Thompson, Young, Day (if he can come back from hip injury) entering their prime. There are quality experience guys Harbrow, Barlow, Hanley, Rischitelli, Rosa. Next wave players like Weller, Witts, Young, Sexton, Kolodjashnij, Wright, Miller, Fiorini, Ah Chee, Ainsworth, McPherson, Leslie, Joyce are ready and should improve/deliver under new coach. Then Suns got elite young talent in Bowes, Scrimshaw and Brodie who with 2nd preseason under belt should get plenty of games. I can see easily 35 players fighting out for best 22. It would not surprise me if Dew will have similar effect on players, club as Fagan had on Lions. On Ablett – thanks god he’s gone, 2 years late. Team can finally unite. Ablett in Geelong may work but in Suns it was borderline disaster. Ablett was first me then team. Different rules for captain and the rest of the team never works. And yes as Suns and Lions fan my views regarding Suns are possibly way too optimistic.

      • Roar Guru

        January 13th 2018 @ 9:35pm
        Cat said | January 13th 2018 @ 9:35pm | ! Report

        The Suns were the ones who put all the special concessions inoto Ablett’s contract. The Suns empowered Gary to do his own thing. The Suns have no one to blame but themselves.

        The Anchor Eade was a far worse coach than Bluey was. The Suns did a terrible job of supporting Bluey and made him the scapegoat for the entire Addministration that was incompetent.

        The Suns chose to name Ablett captain when everyone knew he was a weak choice. Instead of surrounding him with a strong support staff and a strong player leadership group, they brought in a bunch of malcontents. The Suns set Ablett up to fail.

        • January 13th 2018 @ 10:36pm
          George said | January 13th 2018 @ 10:36pm | ! Report

          No argument about incompetent administration. Ashcroft et al should had been all gone long time ago. Appointing Bluey as a first coach was a joke. Compare that with Sheedy at GWS. Also not also arguing Bluey vs Rocket. Both were bad appointments. For sure club did not help Ablett with captaincy but nobody forced Ablett to take it on. As a captain you don’t ask for special concessions. As a curiosity, Ablett even made sure to have in his contract Frequent Flyer Points from all Suns flights awarded to his personal account. But yes, I agree the whole club was a joke. Probably any captain would fail in the same situation, without support from good senior players, good admin, proper facilities. I had a good chuckle, when I noticed your views on Ablett changed quite significantly after trade. Good luck to Ablett and your Cats. He is still very good midfielder although he lost some speed and kick accuracy. Contrary to your view I can’t see him to be very effective when he moves forward, definitely not Dangerfield like as you mentioned in one of your comments. His numbers were excellent last year but a bit inflated as a lot Suns plays were designed around him. But that’s just my opinion. He seems very happy back home and if he can stay healthy it could be fairytale next season.

          • Roar Guru

            January 13th 2018 @ 10:58pm
            Cat said | January 13th 2018 @ 10:58pm | ! Report

            My opinion has never changed regarding Ablett. I always wanted him to come home. Not at any price though. The Suns were making ridiculous demands to start. A best 22 player plus Cats pay all the salary of the player traded was what the Suns asked for. Simply too much for Ablett circa 2017/18. Can’t ask that much for a player the Suns painted as a cancerous malcontent would couldn’t get on the park consistently. That’s not me saying that, that’s the Suns. When you factor in age and injury history the trade that was done is fair for the risk involved. That’s all I ever asked for. Fairness.

            • January 13th 2018 @ 11:12pm
              George said | January 13th 2018 @ 11:12pm | ! Report

              I think trade was handled respectfully from both sides. May be some crazy Suns fans labelled Ablett as a ‘cancerous malcontent’ but not Suns club. Plenty of idiots in both fan bases. Cats probably paid a bit extra but I agree trade was fair. Disagree you did not changed your views on Ablett value but that’s ok, all good.

            • January 15th 2018 @ 1:28pm
              Glenn the magician said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:28pm | ! Report

              dont matter anyway, Abletts hamstrings gone, all this talk about a bloke who might play 8 games if he is lucky

              • Roar Guru

                January 15th 2018 @ 4:59pm
                Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 4:59pm | ! Report

                Still 4 more than Daniel Wells will manage

              • January 16th 2018 @ 10:31am
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:31am | ! Report

                Agreed re: Daniel Wells and add in Luke Hodge too, he is done. All three clubs have blown it with recruiting old players. The modern game is too savage on soft tissue injuries. 30+ old players will only get more rare, it is a young mans game.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 10:41am
                Paul D said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:41am | ! Report

                Yeah the Lions really blew it signing Hodge, maybe they’ll finish last again

                Huge difference when a bottom 4 side recruits a veteran to instruct and coach onfield, as opposed to a contender desperately looking for the extra polish to get them to a flag.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 11:10am
                Cat said | January 16th 2018 @ 11:10am | ! Report

                The modern game is too savage on soft tissue injuries. 30+ old players will only get more rare, it is a young mans game.

                Yeah that’s why Hawthorn won their 3peat largely off the backs of their 30+ core group.

                The actual fact’s show that more players are playing longer than ever before.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 11:37am
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 11:37am | ! Report

                Cat, firstly the Hawthorn threepeat sides were freaks, secondly it is already history as the game gets faster and more suited to younger bodies each year and that was already 2013-2015 and Hawthorn are shot for years now. Your own side has found that out by failing consistently when it counts in finals due to playing too many aged, hurt players.

      • January 15th 2018 @ 2:43pm
        TWLS said | January 15th 2018 @ 2:43pm | ! Report

        Great comments particularly about the extra income the AFL derives from the Suns.
        Hate to be critical – But paragraphs easier to read.

      • January 16th 2018 @ 12:42pm
        Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 12:42pm | ! Report

        Ablett is an all about me bloke George and the Cats have a few of those already so he will fit in quite well. Regardless, his body is shot, this will end up haunting the Cats (and I actually like the Cats team if not the city which is a depressing place) and they have already rolled the dice trying to get extra flags and missed the boat. Can’t see them challenging this year in any way and they may be lucky to make the eight.

      • January 17th 2018 @ 1:23pm
        Gyfox said | January 17th 2018 @ 1:23pm | ! Report

        $2 million rent! How does that compare with the Suns & the Broncos & soccer at Suncorp?

    • Roar Pro

      January 14th 2018 @ 12:10am
      The Doc said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:10am | ! Report

      nice read. Im a victorian and have very little idea of grass roots or set up in QLD. THanks to the commenters for helping clarify some of that. I have always wondered about the afl market in GC? Do residents of GC care about AFL?
      To us victorians all i see is a graveyard for sporting franchises – GC blaze, GC in A-league, titans on their knees etc but im sure their is much more to it than that

      • January 14th 2018 @ 12:40am
        Fred said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:40am | ! Report

        Aussie Rules on the Gold Coast is very strong and growing with new clubs starting up at junior level adding to a large list of clubs. Also big in schools with most having a dedicated afl excellence programme.

        • January 14th 2018 @ 10:31am
          Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 10:31am | ! Report

          Gold coast claimed 2,950 juniors in a report put out late last year for 2017,

        • Roar Guru

          January 14th 2018 @ 11:17am
          Cat said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:17am | ! Report

          Out of curiosity, what is an ‘afl excellence programme’?

        • January 17th 2018 @ 1:25pm
          Gyfox said | January 17th 2018 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

          I don’t think Miami High has Aussie Rules, but may be wrong.

          • Roar Guru

            January 17th 2018 @ 2:08pm
            Paul D said | January 17th 2018 @ 2:08pm | ! Report

            They do, they have the same program as Park Ridge SHS mentioned above

    • January 14th 2018 @ 10:28am
      Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 10:28am | ! Report

      2018 update. 48 Queenslanders in the AFL in 2018 compared to 49 in 2017.

      Adelaide Crows (0)

      Brisbane Lions (13)
      1. Jacob Allison – Aspley
      2. Harris Andrews – Aspley
      3. Connor Ballenden – University of Queensland
      4. Claye Beams – Labrador
      5. Dayne Beams – Southport
      6. Tom Bell – Morningside
      7. Charlie Cameron – Marist College
      8. Liam Dawson – Aspley
      9. Eric Hipwood – Aspley
      10. Ben Keays – Redland
      11 Jack Payne – Noosa
      12. Archie Smith – Mount Gravatt
      13. Dayne Zorko – Broadbeach

      Carlton (0)

      Collingwood (3)
      14. Adam Oxley – Redland
      15. Josh Smith – Redland
      16. Josh Thomas – Redland

      Essendon (0)

      Fremantle (1)
      17. Lee Spurr – Morningside

      Geelong (2)
      18. Wylie Buzza – Redland
      19. Zac Smith – Zillmere

      Gold Coast (12)
      20. Jack Bowes – Cairns
      21. Brayden Crossley – Palm Beach Currumbin
      22. Jacob Dawson – Palm Beach Currumbin
      23. Jarrod Harbrow – South Cairns
      24. Jacob Heron – Palm Beach Currumbin
      25. Jesse Joyce – Palm Beach Currumbin
      26. Connor Nutting – Broadbeach
      27. Brad Scheer – Palm Beach Currumbin
      28. Alex Sexton – Springwood
      29. Max Spencer – Palm Beach Currumbin
      30. Rory Thompson – Southport
      31. Lachie Weller – Southport

      Greater Western Sydney (2)
      32. Lachlan Keeffe – Marist College
      33. Sam Reid – Zillmere

      Hawthorn (1)
      34. Brendan Whitecross – Zillmere

      Melbourne (2)
      35. Oskar Baker – Wilston Grange
      36. Josh Wagner – Aspley

      North Melbourne (4)
      37. Tom Jeffries – Nudgee College
      38. Braydon Preuss – Surfers Paradise
      39. Declan Watson – Aspley
      40. Josh Williams – Surfers Paradise

      Port Adelaide (1)
      41. Charlie Dixon – Redland

      Richmond (2)
      42. Mabior Chol – Aspley
      43. Shaun Hampson – Mount Gravatt

      St Kilda (3)
      44. David Armitage – Morningside
      45. Sam Gilbert – Southport
      46. Tom Hickey – Morningside

      Sydney (2)
      47. Aliir Aliir – Aspley
      48. Kurt Tippett – Southport

      West Coast (0)

      Western Bulldogs (0)

      • January 14th 2018 @ 10:32am
        Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 10:32am | ! Report

        A couple may be ‘iffy’ depending on what sort of criteria you use.

      • Roar Guru

        January 15th 2018 @ 10:41am
        Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 10:41am | ! Report

        Great list. Where did you get this, have been looking for something like this before.

        Not too many guns outside of Queensland, really. A couple of potential talents but most of the local talent we could grab has been grabbed, between us and the Suns.

        • January 15th 2018 @ 1:57pm
          Aligee said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

          Stole it from bigfooty, not my work, a poster by the name of Matchu who does a QLD and NSW list every year.

        • Roar Guru

          January 15th 2018 @ 2:23pm
          DingoGray said | January 15th 2018 @ 2:23pm | ! Report

          One that sticks out for me there is Brayden Preuss!

          Stef coming to the back end. He’s be my number one target

          • Roar Guru

            January 15th 2018 @ 2:56pm
            Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

            Is he really that good? I haven’t bothered watching a North game on TV in years, and he didn’t play in round 23 last year at the Gabba so couldn’t see him there either

            • January 15th 2018 @ 3:01pm
              Aligee said | January 15th 2018 @ 3:01pm | ! Report

              i reckon Lee Spurr is underrated, Charlie Dixon is a world beater on his day and a couple of the Collingwood boys are also underrated IMO

              • Roar Guru

                January 15th 2018 @ 5:04pm
                Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 5:04pm | ! Report

                Spurr is 30, Dixon ain’t ever coming back to QLD.

                I agree the 3 Collingwood lads aren’t terrible, but they’re also 25-26 and have all only played less than 50 games. They’re not prodigies by any means. Not the sort of player who will take us from an average to a great side.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 10:35am
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:35am | ! Report

                Oxley is average. Josh Thomas has only played under 50 because of his drug suspension. I’d take Thomas, Jury still out on Smith. Dixon is like Pavlich circa 2011, Spurr is just a fringe player

            • Roar Guru

              January 15th 2018 @ 3:04pm
              DingoGray said | January 15th 2018 @ 3:04pm | ! Report

              I think he’s significantly better than Archie Smith!

              He’s been starved of opportunities because of Goldstein, but talk this season
              is certainly that Preuss will get more opportunities.

              I don’t think he would cost us too much, but whether Nth look to extend him will be interesting.

            • January 16th 2018 @ 3:13pm
              Kanga Georgeski said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:13pm | ! Report

              Preuss is a super star according to north folk closer to the club then me .

              Time will tell

      • January 15th 2018 @ 1:02pm
        I ate pies said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:02pm | ! Report

        Jarrod Harbrow is from Mooroopna

    • January 14th 2018 @ 11:11am
      Chris said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:11am | ! Report

      The ideal solution would be to relocate North Melbourne to Canberra; The Western Bulldogs to the Northern Territory and St. Kilda to New Zealand. Then the AFL should have the remaining Victorian Clubs operate out of the following grounds:-

      Melbourne Cricket Ground: Collingwood; Melbourne; Richmond;

      Etihad Stadium: Essendon; Carlton; Hawthorn;

      Kardinia Park: Geelong.

      Keep the healthy ones thriving and develop the game nationally instead of bolstering it. Don’t throw good money after bad!

      P.S. Improve the playing surface at Etihad to minimise injuries and use the roof as often as possible. Problem solved.

      • Roar Guru

        January 14th 2018 @ 11:23am
        Col from Brissie said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:23am | ! Report

        Chris, the problem with having Essendon, Carlton and Hawthorn operating out of Etihad is that they all have in excess of 50k members. Essendon and Hawthorn are around 70k so you are restricting members access to games at Etihad.

        A better solution is to have them all based at the MCG and Etihad is used for games against interstate teams.

        • Roar Guru

          January 14th 2018 @ 11:35am
          Cat said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:35am | ! Report

          Not every member goes to every game. Not every member even goes to a single game. Remember the ‘membership’ figures at all clubs are greatly inflated by 3 game and no game memberships. $50 and a physical address to send a member pack to is all that is required to be counted.

          • Roar Guru

            January 14th 2018 @ 11:49am
            Col from Brissie said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:49am | ! Report

            Correct Cat but it would be hard for those clubs to increase membership if their home ground has a capacity of 50k. How can you restrict a Carlton v Essendon game to the capacity of Etihad when they could attract 80,000 at the MCG.

            • January 14th 2018 @ 11:59am
              Chris said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:59am | ! Report

              Now, we can tinker with the ground allocation for the really big rivals. As regards Tasmania we can send St. Kilda there if they don’t like the New Zealand Project for they were responsible for unearthing Ian Stewart, Darrel Baldock, John Bonney and Nick Riewoldt. They are more closely linked with Tassie than either Hawthorn or North Melbourne.

            • January 14th 2018 @ 12:02pm
              Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:02pm | ! Report

              Its a difficult one and a fine line, if you make a huge stadium, you may actually see membership decrease, the WA footy commission did not want the new Perth stadium any bigger ( capacity) as they were frightened that people would be able to pick and choose games they want to see without having to buy a membership.

              I know a few blokes who will not buy Dockers membership this year as they can rock up to any game they like, which could not happen at Subi.

              Whether that happens in reality this year or the next few because of the all the hype about a new stadium – who knows, but the new stadium can not even fill all the WCE members on its waiting list and that is the way the Commish can keep membership prices up.

              It is smart business sense, but on the other hand the game IMO should be available to whoever wants to go at an affordable price to create a culture of attendance.

            • Roar Guru

              January 14th 2018 @ 1:47pm
              Cat said | January 14th 2018 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

              Geelong has 56k members and a ground that holds 36k. Haven’t heard an issue of anyone being ‘frozen out’. Geelong’s membership may top 60k this year. Kardinia Park will top out at 40k capacity if the final stage 5 gets funding. It’s simply bad business to have supply far exceed demand. WCE are a wealthy AFL club in part because they limit supply and can sell their product for more money.

            • January 15th 2018 @ 1:31pm
              Glenn the magician said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:31pm | ! Report

              not now with the brand carlton bring to the park Col, they are the worst team to watch in the comp mate, if you get 80,000 its because of essendon not carlton nowadays

          • January 14th 2018 @ 12:00pm
            George said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:00pm | ! Report

            Clubs for sure inflate membership. Here is Membership Revenue per Member 2016. What is happening with GWS?
            Gold Coast – $459.89 (includes ticketing)
            Adelaide – $404.41
            West Coast – $322.96
            Fremantle – $317.24
            Geelong – $274.77 (includes gate reciepts)
            Brisbane – $240.59 (includes gate reciepts)
            Melbourne – $193.58 (includes fundraising)
            Essendon – $175.67
            st Kilda – $174.44
            Cartlon – $171.92
            Hawthorn – $164.86
            North – $160.98
            Western Bulldogs – $159.99
            GWS – $82.19 (includes merchandise)

            • Roar Guru

              January 14th 2018 @ 12:04pm
              AdelaideDocker said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:04pm | ! Report

              I’m confused, where’d you get those figures?

              I know I paid $80 odd for my Freo membership the past few years, and maybe a little extra on merchandise.

              • Roar Guru

                January 14th 2018 @ 1:57pm
                Cat said | January 14th 2018 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

                It’s an average. As noted in the brackets, some include tickets. Remember every club has multiple levels of membership. My Cats membership for 17home and away Victorian games is $370 for 2018. If I wasn’t in the cheer squad and wanted to but season seats, that could run me from $90 (nose bleed seat on the outer) to $1000 (corporate suite) or more depending on what seat I wanted. I believe all clubs have social memberships too that can run an additional couple hundred a year. There are also September member add ons that guarantee you a GF seat if your team plays at some clubs. That’s another $100 plus. If merchandise counts this year I bought a member blanket and scarf to go with my member hat. That was an extra $35. I also spent $40 on my Geelong Cats women’s pioneer membership.

                So so far this year I am in for $445.00 and I still haven’t renewed my cheer squad membership ($40) or paid for my seats ($10/game x 17 games = $170).

            • January 14th 2018 @ 12:05pm
              Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:05pm | ! Report

              Doesn’t make sense, WA club memberships are the most expensive AFAIK and SA club membership are the cheapest or one of them.

            • January 14th 2018 @ 12:19pm
              Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 12:19pm | ! Report


              2016 – but generally things dont change much.

              There is a waiting list at the Crows, but prices are also probably in line with income, WA per capita has a better income than SA – therefore more expensive seats.

              • Roar Guru

                January 14th 2018 @ 2:00pm
                Cat said | January 14th 2018 @ 2:00pm | ! Report

                From what I was told by a crows member when I was at AO for the finals last year, Crows memberships are almost twice the price of Geelong memberships. So not sure they are anywhere near the cheapest

              • January 14th 2018 @ 3:55pm
                Aligee said | January 14th 2018 @ 3:55pm | ! Report

                He may be wrong, a Crows standard 11 game membership is $250, Geelong’s is $225.

                Both general admin, not reserved seats.

                Family (2×2) is $450 at Geelong, $525 at Adelaide.

                Reserved seating is somewhat more expensive at Geelong, bit hard to compare as their are 3 or 4 different levels.



            • Roar Guru

              January 17th 2018 @ 9:16am
              Redb said | January 17th 2018 @ 9:16am | ! Report

              These stats must omit the seat reservation which is an additional $150-160 for Essendon taking a Bronze 11 home game to mid $300s.

      • January 14th 2018 @ 1:19pm
        Mattyb said | January 14th 2018 @ 1:19pm | ! Report

        I like your thinking Chris but this is going to be a complex issue that is going to need much thought,it’s a problem though that will eventually need to be addressed.
        I’m still in favour of merging the Victorian clubs or expelling the ones not surviving properly as the league eapands.
        I do think people from Tas,NT or even FNQ would much prefer their own side in preference to a failed VFL side. Relocation might be cheaper but I think there would be better options for long term sustainability.
        I’m not keen on a NZ team at all though.

        • January 15th 2018 @ 1:47pm
          Glenn the magician said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

          I agree mattyb…kick out or force merge North, the Saints, Dogs and Demons, put in a FNQ team who play Cairns, Townsville, Rockie and a Tassie team.

          • January 15th 2018 @ 5:07pm
            Mattyb said | January 15th 2018 @ 5:07pm | ! Report

            Glenn,I’m not for kicking clubs out personally as I think we could lose supporters from the game. While I think the Victorian centric nature of the competition is holding back the growth of the game we still need Victoria to be a strong football state.
            Merging is definitely the way to go but it will need to be well considered compared to other attempts that seemed to have been to rushed leading to their failures.

            • January 15th 2018 @ 7:21pm
              Macca said | January 15th 2018 @ 7:21pm | ! Report

              Mattyb – could you point to anything that indicates the game is currently being held back,membership numbers, attendance numbers, tv viewership, tv rights sales, participation rates – anything?

            • January 15th 2018 @ 7:21pm
              Macca said | January 15th 2018 @ 7:21pm | ! Report

              could you point to anything that indicates the game is currently being held back,membership numbers, attendance numbers, tv viewership, tv rights sales, participation rates – anything?


              • January 16th 2018 @ 10:54am
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:54am | ! Report

                Macca, Marketing lesson 101. Don’t diffuse your marketing pot. Clubs like North, Melbourne, St Kilda and Melbourne hold back our game because they soak up AFL money in propping them up and also because their marketing return on investment for sponsors is so poor. It makes AFL lose sponsors rather than gain them. If those same sponsors were with say a Richmond they would get ROI that would make them stay/increase their spend. These low clubs who are being propped up, can’t market themselves are just a stain on our game, a drain too. It’s like spending money on water, fertiliser for plants that are never going to grow anyway. What a waste of AFL money they are. Shut them all down.
                Clubs who the AFL should immediately shut down.

                North, St Kilda, Melbourne, Suns, ….Bang, get rid of these drain cloggers.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 11:15am
                AdelaideDocker said | January 16th 2018 @ 11:15am | ! Report

                Well, I for one am glad you’re not in charge of anything at the AFL.

                You do realise the consequences of just getting rid of four clubs? A fourteen club league is very different to an eighteen club league.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 12:11pm
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 12:11pm | ! Report

                its simple Adelaide Docker, less teams paying each other more often. Even Dangerfield is proposing a 34 game season today. clubs play each other twice and then the league prescribes extra blockbuster games with the best financial return, like a third Essendon v Collingwood game (thrid time they meet each other) on a prime Friday night.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 12:31pm
                Cat said | January 16th 2018 @ 12:31pm | ! Report

                What Dangerfield proposed was to balance the fixture. Every team plays each other twice, once at home, once away. There was no ‘and then’. Your special considerations for ‘blockbusters’ do nothing of the sort. They are one of the biggest issues with the current fixture. Pretty unsurprising you want everything to be about the Pies Peter.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:11pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:11pm | ! Report

                Glenn – if you take away 4 clubs and play 2 less games a weekend how much less revenue will flow to the AFL in terms of Broadcast rights? I would suggest the distributions the AFL gives to those 4 clubs would be a drop in the ocean compared to that.
                If you then factored in that the AFL now owns Etihad and would have one less game a week there to make money from as well the economics of your argument fail pretty quick.

                Also Victoria and Melbourne in particular are the fastest growing state and capital city in the country – “marketing 101” surely doesn’t advocate reducing your presence in one of the largest and fastest growing areas in the country?

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:19pm
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:19pm | ! Report

                Macca, the lost games per weekend would be more than compensated for in a longer season. The dilution factor would be less too as who wants to watch North v Freo play Friday night? I’d rather watch the Cats v Hawks even if they had played each other the week prior.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 1:25pm
                Paul D said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:25pm | ! Report

                No-one wants to watch North v Freo on a Friday night – that’s why they’ve only scheduled one clash between those two sides on a Friday since 1998, and even that was only because it was Anzac Day 2014 and they wanted a Perth game on that day at Subi

                yet ANOTHER terrible example. You can have lesser drawing sides in the competition without clogging up prime-time, that’s why you have 3-4 games every weekend on Sat/Sun arvo.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:33pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:33pm | ! Report

                Glenn – Longer Season? How is that possible – there won’t be any grounds to play on!

                Even if it is possible longer season means bigger salary cap for clubs because players want more money for the extra work which means more money being paid out by the AFL to keep the remaining clubs viable which brings us back to exactly where we are now.

                “The dilution factor would be less too” so extending the season reduces dilution? Not sure you have thought that one through.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:39pm
                Jon boy said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:39pm | ! Report

                Macca plenty of grounds it would be great to have Two games in Perth every weekend.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:45pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:45pm | ! Report

                Bit hard if Cricket has the right to the grounds Jon Boy. In Victoria (and I would suggest most other states) it is actually law that cricket has access to the Grounds from October to March (not sure of the exact dates).

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:54pm
                Jon boy said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:54pm | ! Report

                Two games Between March and October .even Essendon versus Carlton or Collingwood Bombers have huge support in the West.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 1:57pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

                Yeah I am sure the Blues bombers and Pies will want to play one of their biggest drawing games of the year in Perth.

                But It isn’t the number of games between March and October that is the issue, it is that you can’t extend the season beyond the 23 weeks home and away because you lose grounds.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 2:02pm
                Jon boy said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:02pm | ! Report

                Fair enough but more games in Perth would be great.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 2:09pm
                Cat said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:09pm | ! Report

                I see you still do not understand how home and away works, Jon. Two WA teams. One will be home, one will be away. Only way to get more WA games is to have another WA team.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 2:39pm
                Jon boy said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:39pm | ! Report

                Cat i do understand that but it does not have to be that way ,fairness is interstate travel,but you never want to acknowledge that issue .Freo and Eagles travel Long distances 11 times a year Pies left Vic 5 When every club leaves there State equally it would be fair. It will not happen while we have a VFL system we have to accept that, A away game for Geelong 100 ks to Melbourne is a joke try 5,000 ks every second week overnight stays etc.You will never accept that because you will play less finals.Good luck to you anyway….cheers

              • January 16th 2018 @ 2:55pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:55pm | ! Report

                JonBoy – do you deny that Interstate clubs (WA and SA in particular) have a significant home ground advantage that usually gets them 1-2 “extra” wins a year?

                Things aren’t “fair”, life isn’t “fair” people just need to accept that as a fact rather than continue to whinge about it.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 2:56pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:56pm | ! Report

                JonBoy – do you deny that Interstate clubs (WA and SA in particular) have a significant home ground advantage that usually gets them 1-2 “extra” wins a year?

                Things aren’t “fair”, life isn’t “fair” people just need to accept that as a fact rather than continue to wh! nge about it.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:12pm
                Jon boy said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:12pm | ! Report

                Macca We all know life is not fair. But it can be if we all work towards it. it is nothing about whingeing The AFL make the rules and we accept them .Why are interstate teams advantaged more than Geelong at KP or Pies at MCG

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:26pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:26pm | ! Report

                “Why are interstate teams advantaged more than Geelong at KP or Pies at MCG” Geelong do have an advantage but the are the only Victorian team to do so. Would it be “more fair” if games were played at Princes Park, Windy hill or Victoria Park again?

                As for working towards fair – how about we play every game at a neutral venue and every club travel interstate every week.

                “Fair” is a mirage, accept reality.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 2:58pm
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:58pm | ! Report

                Actually there was and “and then” with Dangerfields idea Cat. The and then was that games would be shorter, shorter quarters.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:02pm
                Macca said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

                Shorter games = less exposure for sponsors, less goals which means less ads, less ads means less revenue for TV stations less revenue means lowers bids for rights – why would the AFL do that?

                And it doesn’t matter how short you make the games, you still need the weeks to put the extra rounds in.

      • January 16th 2018 @ 2:06pm
        Trumpistani said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:06pm | ! Report

        If North and Footscray were smart, they would play home games at Geelong. The rent is tiny, all profit and a bit of competition for the Melbourne stadiums might make those operators look at a better revenue splitting model.

        AFL should play hardball with the MCG.

        • Roar Guru

          January 16th 2018 @ 2:13pm
          Cat said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:13pm | ! Report

          The Bulldogs have been offered the opportunity to play some home games at KP. They’d have gotten the same deal Geelong gets, which would mean a profit of $600k+ per game instead of being lucky to break even at Etihad. Bulldogs said no.

        • January 16th 2018 @ 2:55pm
          Mattyb said | January 16th 2018 @ 2:55pm | ! Report

          Trumpistani,the Bulldogs have decided to try and have a presence in Ballarat.
          Playing in Geelong would just be a short term fix,there would be no growth benifit at all. It seems most people’s thinking is short term with a lack of thinking to where sport might be headed,which is why I think we need a greater emphasis on national long term thinking,which thankfully the AFL has an eye on.
          While Footscray and North are smaller clubs,as long as they’re winning they can stay afloat,when they’re losing they are like any of the other VFL clubs when losing,and that’s milking the league so we can maintain the out dated idea of having 10 clubs in one state,while trying to interest the northern states population to take interest in a competition that’s primarily Victorian.

          There’s no long term benifit in the league coming up with travelling the VFL clubs around the country,there’s no long term benifit in pumping money into VFL clubs so the league can have 10. There is long term benifit in pumping money into NSW and Qld,the league just needs to consider if the people in these states want to play in an expanded VFL,or if a proper AFL might have a better long term outcome.

        • January 16th 2018 @ 3:19pm
          Kanga Georgeski said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:19pm | ! Report

          North playing a few games at Geelong to save rent
          I’m not apposed to it
          Sounds interesting

          It would have to be only against Victorian teams though surely ,,.

          If north played Brisbane at Geelong , I don’t either clubs fans would go .

    • January 14th 2018 @ 5:27pm
      George said | January 14th 2018 @ 5:27pm | ! Report

      Reply button does not work for me. Here is the link for membership revenues.

      • January 15th 2018 @ 7:36pm
        Macca said | January 15th 2018 @ 7:36pm | ! Report

        The membership revenue shows how ridiculous the members numbers are hawthorn had roughly 33% more members than Essendon 75k to 57k but had only 20% more revenue $12m to$10m

        • January 16th 2018 @ 10:38am
          Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:38am | ! Report

          Hawthorn are notorious for faking membership numbers. One game member access numbers are ridiculous and shouldnt be included. The manipulation of stats in AFL membership is worse than the dubious metrics of their online websites.

          • Roar Guru

            January 16th 2018 @ 10:42am
            Cat said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:42am | ! Report

            Memberships don’t require ANY game access. $50 or more spent, a name, and a membership pack sent to a physical address. That is what the AFL requires to be counted as a member at any club.

            • January 16th 2018 @ 10:55am
              Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 10:55am | ! Report

              yeah but regardless if they go to a game they are buying one game at least. manipulation.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 12:28pm
                Cat said | January 16th 2018 @ 12:28pm | ! Report

                Wrong again Peter.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 12:46pm
                Glenn the magician said | January 16th 2018 @ 12:46pm | ! Report

                you are one strange Cat, Cat. What’s the Peter point? Like do you mean I think I’m Peter Perfect is that your attempt at humour?

    • January 14th 2018 @ 7:54pm
      Kangaroos said | January 14th 2018 @ 7:54pm | ! Report

      The aussie rules vfl continues on its quest to take the game to the 60 percent of Australia who don’t care .

      Next stop Shanghai.

      • January 14th 2018 @ 8:56pm
        Mattyb said | January 14th 2018 @ 8:56pm | ! Report

        Don’t worry Kangaroos,there’s people out there that want to take the game beyond the old VFL and hopefully the care factor will naturally increase.
        These are our obviously our challenge and sooner or later will be faced.

      • Roar Pro

        January 14th 2018 @ 11:42pm
        anon said | January 14th 2018 @ 11:42pm | ! Report

        They were trying to take the game to America and England back in the 80’s.

        We’re two years away from being in the 20’s!

        Three of the four teams in the northern states are practically insolvent.

        AFL are ambitious and optimistic. I’ll give them that!

        • Roar Guru

          January 15th 2018 @ 10:52am
          Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 10:52am | ! Report

          The Queensland AFL clubs revenue struggles have nothing to do with the strength of grassroots footy in this state. The simple truth is that everyone invested in grassroots footy is aware that we have AFL teams in Queensland and they’re also aware that they’ve both been bloody terrible for ages. So rather than waste their money and their weekend going to the Gabba, they’re just playing footy themselves, or watching their mates play at a local venue. Local footy in Queensland is in rude health and going from strength to strength.

          It’s easy for knockers and lazy sloganistas such as anon to simply waddle in, make a few jibes about AFL in Europe and financial balance statements and swan out, but it’s far from the full picture or accurate for that matter.

          • January 15th 2018 @ 1:19pm
            I ate pies said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:19pm | ! Report

            I lived in Queensland for years. 99% of people who play Aussie Rules are ex-pats from footy states (there’s plenty of those in Queensland). Everyone else thinks footy is soft.

            • Roar Guru

              January 15th 2018 @ 1:38pm
              Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:38pm | ! Report

              I notice you said lived, meaning past tense – I suspect your info is way out of date. Particularly this 99% figure. I live here in the present tense and that’s laughably inaccurate.

              In any event it’s an irrelevant comment, no-one playing amateur aussie rules here gives a toss what a bunch of league fans think of the code. Aussie Rules clubs here in Brisbane have plenty of juniors, no issues at all fielding masters sides – sure, it may not be the pre-eminent sport in the state but it’s also not in danger of extinction. Clubs at all levels are stable, have plenty of funding and access to excellent grounds and infrastructure.

              In my day job I get a lot of exposure to utilities & sporting clubs – I have always found a handy barometer on how a club or code is travelling is how much assistance they get and where they sit with payment of their water & electricity bills.

              it’s no coincidence that most ARU owned properties here are deeply in debt, a fair smattering of League & soccer clubs are also struggling, meanwhile the Aussie Rules clubs have no issues at all, as the AFL is obviously ensuring that grassroots funding continues to flow.

              This sort of stuff makes a huge difference. When people are able to play on well watered ovals because the club can afford to irrigate, when the equipment is up to standard and when they’re not being shaken down for raffles and fundraisers every second week, it enhances their enjoyment of the sport. Anyone running around saying AFL in queensland is doomed or a waste of time is just running an ideological line and not interested in finding out the actual facts of the matter.

              • January 15th 2018 @ 2:03pm
                Aligee said | January 15th 2018 @ 2:03pm | ! Report

                I don’t live in QLD, but i do pay attention via sporting pulse fixtures, annual reports, anecdotal evidence etc and i would agree, it is not the biggest code, but it is in pretty good health below the AFL teams as far as i can see.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 11:18am
                I ate pies said | January 16th 2018 @ 11:18am | ! Report

                A year and a half, not that long ago. Talk to people Paul, find out where they’re from. I guarantee you that 99% of senior footballers in Queensland are from a footy state, and 99% of juniors who play have parents from a footy state. It’s not locals who are getting into footy, it’s the thousands of expats and their offspring.

              • Roar Guru

                January 16th 2018 @ 11:39am
                Paul D said | January 16th 2018 @ 11:39am | ! Report

                I have talked to people Pies – most of the guys at the club I’m at. I’d say it’s probably 65%/35% in favour of the expats.

                I agree it’s a majority, but it’s not like I’m the one queenslander in the whole state with two queensland parents who’s taken up aussie rules, I assure you of that.

                Why does it matter where they are from anyway? It’s not like now they’ve pulled the trigger on moving here, sold the house down south etc that many are going to go back home.

                most people here who don’t follow AFL just don’t understand or care about it. I’ve never got the old “bloody wussball” attitude, I think you need to update your doggerel or hang out with different people

          • January 15th 2018 @ 1:36pm
            Glenn the magician said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:36pm | ! Report

            depends on the quality of the footy, if you’re talking about blokes running around for a bit of a kick and laugh maybe. I play vets in melbourne and id bet our over 50’s side would give most local QLD normal sides a run for their money

            • Roar Guru

              January 15th 2018 @ 1:41pm
              Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:41pm | ! Report

              Another irrelevant comment. Who plays amateur footy and is concerned about the quality, or appearance of their football for the spectator?

              Stylistic objections are the weakest of all complaints, based as they are on a person’s individual opinion. I’ve never seen your team play so I can’t comment on how you’d go. But if it makes you feel better to claim you could win a game played in your head that has no chance of ever happening in the real world, go for it.

              • January 15th 2018 @ 1:51pm
                Glenn the magician said | January 15th 2018 @ 1:51pm | ! Report

                its not that, its that a group of queenslanders playing footy and eating a pie at half time is largely irrelevant as its not serious footy. Grassroots is by definition a term that implies growth, roots, grass grows get it? I know Queenslanders are a bit slow mate but even you should understand that. if you blokes are having a kick and laugh good on you but as you state yourself you turn off the TV at the minute because the two queensland teams are truly awful. Its irrelevant if you are playing kick and giggle, lacrosse or tiddlywinks.

              • January 15th 2018 @ 2:07pm
                Aligee said | January 15th 2018 @ 2:07pm | ! Report

                That may be the case in QFA division 2,3,4 or 5 but division 1 and above that the QAFL and above that again the NEAFL is quite professional.

              • Roar Guru

                January 15th 2018 @ 2:29pm
                Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 2:29pm | ! Report

                Yeah, disagree totally with that assertion. For starters, it has grown and continues to grow. Admittedly I only joined playing at the club I’m at last year but I’ve spoken to guys who’ve been playing for years and they said it used to be a struggle to get 14 v 14 some weekends for a game, now it’s routinely 18 v 18 and often you have a few subs on the bench. Not to mention more clubs, more teams, more divisions etc.

                The comments about eating pies etc are far from the mark, everyone is knackered at the end of the games. Both sides. People are contributing to the best of their fitness and capability, which is all you can ask.

                Also, I’d contend it’s far more important for the long term health of the game to have a strong club level competition & bad elite level competition than it is to have a strong elite level comps & weak grassroots. The strength of queensland grassroots footy means there’s always going to be a couple of hundred thousand people in this state who have an interest in the code and follow it – yes, it’s not a huge proportion, but it’s a big enough demographic that ensures the sport won’t disappear and continues to remain relevant here.

                Like a lot of people you can’t see beyond the AFL, but the sport isn’t called AFL, it’s called Australian Rules and there’s far more to it in QLD than just empty seats at stadiums and the Lions/Suns getting thumped.

              • Roar Guru

                January 15th 2018 @ 4:16pm
                Col from Brissie said | January 15th 2018 @ 4:16pm | ! Report

                I played footy in the 70’s & 80’s in both Melbourne and Brisbane. In Melbourne I played A-Grade in the Essendon District Football League and in Brisbane I played in Division 1 of the South Queensland Australian Football Asoociation. SQAFA was the second tier competition in Brisbane and the team was roughly made up of 50/50 of locals and Interstate players.

                The standard of football in the SQAFA was about the same as the EDFL. The 2 clubs I played for both had 2 senior sides but the Brisbane club had double the amount of junior teams.

                From the games I watched in the QAFL I would rate the standard as similar to the then VFA. There were a number of players who had played in the VFL playing in Brisbane in the QAFL and I will always remember the game when I was playing in the SQAFA I was opposed to John Pitura.

              • January 15th 2018 @ 4:28pm
                Glenn the magician said | January 15th 2018 @ 4:28pm | ! Report

                Thanks for the history lesson Col, not really relevant to today mate

              • Roar Guru

                January 15th 2018 @ 5:14pm
                Paul D said | January 15th 2018 @ 5:14pm | ! Report

                I think the gap between Victorian domestic aussie rules and the rest isn’t that pronounced until you get up near the pointy end – once you’re approaching semi-pro levels you’d definitely find a lot of the better players are down in the heartland states because that’s where the best standard is played.

                But I think Glenn misses the whole point of the article, as there is a bit of a subtle intellectualism to its argument – if you look beyond the high profile failures of the two AFL clubs in this state you find a sport that has ensnared a rusted on fanbase of a couple hundred thousand individuals and now will be impossible for league or cricket or any other sport to eradicate from QLD. Grassroots footy in this state is in good health and certainly is more than capable of sustaining interest in the sport for however long the Lions & Suns are incapable of doing so through their own uninspiring efforts.

              • Roar Guru

                January 15th 2018 @ 8:21pm
                Col from Brissie said | January 15th 2018 @ 8:21pm | ! Report

                I think Glenn misses a lot of things Paul. The point I was making was that there was interest and a decent standard being played in Queensland before the introduction of the Bears/Lions and Suns.

                With 2 AFL clubs in the southeast, interest and participation in Australian Rules will continue to increase at the grassroots level in Queensland.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 11:21am
                I ate pies said | January 16th 2018 @ 11:21am | ! Report

                The standard in Queensland is terrible, across the board. Most seconds teams in Victoria or South Australia would beat senior teams in Queensland, comfortably. The only thing that holds up the (low) standard in Queensland is the expats.
                The standard of the NEAFL is woeful too.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:08pm
                Alicesprings said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:08pm | ! Report

                The NEAFL has come leaps and bounds and with 4 AFL clubs reserves I think any comment rubbishing its standard is way off the mark. Not to mention the number of players that have been drafted out of the comp in recent years.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:20pm
                Aligee said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:20pm | ! Report

                @ i ate pies.

                6 players in 2017


                77 players overall


                Yer what a crap standard it must be.

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:27pm
                Kanga Georgeski said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:27pm | ! Report

                Isaac Heaney from the black diamond league in Newcastle

                Maybe non Victorians can play footy

              • January 16th 2018 @ 3:24pm
                Alicesprings said | January 16th 2018 @ 3:24pm | ! Report


                Don’t you hate it when facts get in the way of a good story!!

                Love watching the NEAFL and especially the mighty Thunder.

                Also interesting to note that GWS finished bottom last year in the NEAFL. Must be a decent standard when the talent laden Giants struggle to win a game.

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