I hear what you are saying about your friends and their relative price sensitivity, but I suspect clubs/franchisees would likely lower their profits and not significantly increasing their long term customer base if they adjusted their prices downwards. The product is ultimately not appealing enough for them specifically at the given price.

The live attendance numbers for many sporting codes in Australia isn’t outstanding (even for some of the very successful teams) and significantly the overall experience in many cases has been a little lackluster for years, from food, facilities and service to the actual product on the field, including the lack of on ground commentary, referee comms, clear indication of penalties on screens..etc..etc. Some of the modern grounds around the country are elevating/improving things somewhat, there is a little bit of innovation here and there, but there is still significant scope for improvement. Couple this with our Australian rugby teams putting in inconsistent and sometimes lackluster performances and you can see the challenges to growing the product and competition as a whole. I have likewise dragged mates to games that have done little to inspire them to take up future offers.

But as I (and many have) said, winning is at the heart of it if you we are going to attract more viewership locally, otherwise you just retain rusted on fans and lovers of the sport like me who can recall past glory.

@John Ferguson, the dynamics of any market do not mean that a lower price results in a relative increase in numbers, whether that be Streaming/PayTV viewership or game day attendance (a pretty fundamental economics/pricing concept). I would also contend that there are a range or dynamics at play in the Australian sporting market, from it being very saturated to the overall quality of the product/experience and the fact that you are competing with a range of entertainment products (not just sport) coupled with increasing globalisation such that it’s no longer even just the local market (AFL, NRL..etc..), but those sporting competitions such as the NBA, EPL, Champions League, F1 etc.
Alignment with the Japanese market makes some sense with the relative time zones, large potential viewship and existing popularity of the sport, but as we saw with the Sunwolves, it isn’t going to work if it’s not hooked in with their establisted competitions and brands, corporate funding models etc.
USA and a team based in Hawaii I really don’t see as beneficial at this juncture.
Also any form of expansion into another country adds in a lot of extra costs and logistics which I would have reservations over for a Union (RA) which was on the brink of being bankrupt not that long ago. Bringing in private equity when you are in a weak position as an organisation seems fraught to me and we’ve seen how well it has panned out for some competitions around the world, most recently the Premiership Rugby in England.
To my mind the fundamental issue is that the AU teams need to be better. You have the side of the competition with the larger population and potential viewership, advertising revenue etc. with the weaker teams. NZ and their expats will not grow the game because there are only so many of them and whilst the AllBlacks brand has global pull, the NZ Super Rugby teams are not like a Real Madrid, Manchester United or other global sporting brands. NZRU also have their own issues to attend to in maintaining their sport domestically with changes to participation in recent years and the growing popularity of other sports with youths.
All this means that NZRU are oddly in a position where they need our teams to be more competitive to make the competition a viable product that benefits all (though they also have the tension of trying to ensure that they have the successful brands, so only success to a point 😛 ).

As I said, fair enough, but all three have pretty clearly flagged/spoken about that on reflection they weren’t fulfilling their potential at many times during their careers. All three have spoken about elements of their careers and where they were at and how this impacted them in their capacity as a player. Cooper in a recent interview admitted he wouldn’t have selected himself at various points, he wasn’t performing, putting in the work and/or had the right mindset about the game and life. Both JOC and Cooper should have well over 100 caps for Australia. All three should have a legacy more akin to Eales, Larkham, Burke and co. for the talent they had and have, but I’m not sure they do. So no, I’m not sure they ever did entirely fulfill their potential.

@Cam. Fair. Maybe I am being a little too critical, but I think holistically most people would feel that the Beale isn’t in the same category as some of those other players I listed and truly he had the potential to be, which I feel is personally a shame, because his highs were really high, it’s just that he also had some real lows also.

Hence my fine balance comment.

Yes, there are numerous cases of players stepping up at a young age (even Joseph Suaalii), it’s more a consideration of developmentally where they are at with regards to a contact sport, especially when they’ve have little to not experience of running at potentially larger, faster bodies that you find with a professional competition. There is some merit in peoples thoughts that player should be harden in comps like the Shute Shield, which I think is in part why players like Langi Gleeson are capable of stepping up to International duties from such limited SR game time.

There is also the psychological impact if they are not handled correctly. We’ve seen this with Jordan Petaia who’s struggled in this area and even players like Carter Gordon in his season for the Rebels, but yes, if Max is ready, then you start to give him some game time to see how he goes, I just feel we have this trend to pump up the next possible standout player before they have even grown into their boots. We saw this with Mark Nawaqanitawase, Jack Maddocks, Isacc Lucas, Jordan Petaia… and a range of players. Will they get there eventually. Yes, some like Mark look to be, but I think we’re potentially unfair to others with the weight of expectations we have.

He has a lot of potential, but history is littered with enough examples of players who never fully fulfilled theirs and I think there needs to be some care in extrapolating school boy level performances to the next. But yes, he could be special.

Past prodigies like Cooper, O’Connor, Beale all never evolved to reach the level of your Dan Carter, Beauden Barrett, Johnny Sexton’s etc… with any form of consistent performance and achievement. A lot of rocks and diamonds.

He’s a different player to Joseph Sua’alii who has different attributes and I feel has similar potential to be a special player.

I personally hope they don’t rush Max. It’s a fine balance. A 18 year old frame running at seasoned SR players is not something you want to throw a young lad at too quickly.

I’m keen to see Harrison’s return after his injuries. Lots of potential as a player.

I think you will find that is more associated with the Australian teams not having a good recent track record of winning (the lack of viewership for non-local derby games).
Personally I see a number of compelling reasons to keep the SuperRugby competition, from;
– Financial – the product is worth more to broadcasters than a local AU competition would be in the short term and likely for a long while – I believe Nine/Stan already flagged what the RugbyAU comp during COVID was worth to them, which wasn’t enough.
– Standards – playing the NZ teams who are consistently winning sets a high bar for standards which then feeds into the international team (Wallabies). Stop playing them and I suspect you’d see a slow decline of our players. We already see this with many of our players not getting enough game time vs. if they play in the Top14, URC, Premiership etc.. where they suddenly improve as in part they are playing more games
– Shared infrastructure – from referees to marketing etc.
– … and many others.
Developing some form of national competition might be the best way forward in creating a stronger level below SuperRugby. This might be similar to the European Rugby Champions Cup where teams are seeded based on past performance from the various state based competitions (John Dent Cup, Shute Shield, Hospital Cup..etc..etc..), but the SuperRugby competition, especially now with the reduced travel, better game times (with no South Africa), flair of teams like Fiji Drua & Moana Pacifica makes sense. Getting the Australian teams to being competitive with NZ is what is needed. Ideally what we probably need is NZ changing their All Blacks eligibility laws to include anyone in the comp such that some of the NZ players could choose AU teams as options but I don’t see this happening anytime soon.

Yes, having people to emulate (ie. that you’ve seen playing on TV) is a pretty common pull for kids, though I’m not sure it is as pivotal in those early years. I know a number of kids who gravitated to sports such as Basketball & AFL with no exposure to watching the games on TV, such that I feel peer groups and other factors are more influential.
Fundamentally sport needs to be engaging and fun in those early years, but more importantly, accessible. Later on, especially the high school years, yes, having stars, role model etc.. to look up to coupled with being able to see high level games will create pull, as will things like the Wallabies winning or a home World Cup.
As James/Dean were discussing, you do also have the factor of parent comfort with the sport . The issues of physical maturity has additionally continued to be an issue for those parents looking at their 40kg son/daughter being run at by a kid of different heritage who is twice their size. This coupled with societal norms trending to potentially overprotective and anxious parents can also play a part in sports that are considered ‘safer’ being pushed.

Whilst some of the 2003 winfall was wasted, they did try some things that many people were asking for that failed, such as the ARC (Australian Rugby Championship) which was an attempt to replicate the ITM or Currie Cup in a hope to build some of the low depth in the sport. The problem was it was never going to work long-term with how it was financially structured. At the end of the day, sport is an entertainment property, so if you don’t have the fan engagement, you don’t get the sponsors or TV deals, you don’t have any.

I agree, the public school system isn’t the solution. That said, how do you attract people at a young age to try Rugby if they have no incidental or free exposure within the public systems. There needs to be some path of exposure and connection to the club system. There are a range of factors that will impact sport participation and selection, but zero exposure and the influence of peer network effects will have a sizable impact if there aren’t other factors pushing choice (ie. family connections to the sport – eg. dad played and loved the game).

The increasing popularity of Basketball for example I would say correlates well with factors such as increasing availability of facilities (courts at schools and parks) and the relatively uncomplicated nature of the game which means it can be easily played without resourcing beyond a ball. This means it is a sport that nearly all public students can get exposure to.

Creating some form of link between the public school system and the clubs is something that needs to be looked at. I’ve always pondered if 7’s in the gateway that needs to be better leveraged. Touch football/OZTag has worked well for Rugby League in this regard. Especially for girls/women I can see this working well with the current crop of stars/personalities. Offering free days/galas/clinics for public school students is also going to be well accepted if executed correctly.

Expecting public schools to have teams, provide coaching etc.. is never going to happen as you stated, not to mention in the current climate contact sports are not something the public system is going to want to deal with.

Mack Mason is who you were thinking of. Out in the wilderness now.

It’s not just all the on the ball work that you’ve mention that needs work, it’s the off the ball work too. Watching the Mitre 10 or SR Aotearoa you just see that the Kiwi players seem so much better in that facet of the game. Brumbies are one of the examples where you see a team of players who know where they need to be, what they need to be doing. Even the Reds with all their raw talent are frustrating to watch at times with the inconsistency of how they execute some of the fundamentals.

The other truth is that NSW can’t hold on to all the players out of the Club system in the same way a lot of Queenslanders are filling the Force, Rebels and Brumbies ranks. Do they have a good track record of picking and choosing the right players? that’s up for debate and arguably at times they’ve gotten it (very) wrong, but at the end of the day pick and choose they must and sometimes high-sight can make a choice seem the wrong one, but if you honestly look at some of the players who have slipped by they probably weren’t obvious standouts at the the time. The more concerning aspect of the Tah’s has been the development pathway. They just don’t have solid track record with development pathways where they have been shown to have consistent forward planning such that they are brining in new players to slot into the team system. High performing clubs like the Brumbies and Crusaders do this some much better without the pain and need for wholesale reboots like the Reds, Blues etc.. and the Tah’s unfortunately. It illuminates larger systemic issues with the club and franchise and that in of itself impacts recruitment and retention so you end up in a vicious cycle.

It’s hard to make any sweeping judgements on a handful of games. A lot of teams have looked good on their day, or even go through patches of form. The success of the All Blacks has been the consistency in success. We may look back on this as a blip in the road for the All Blacks a year or two later.

Ireland for example had a run of some good form, even getting a W or two against NZ. Only time will tell if this is more a case of everyone else catching up to NZ or the inverse with a loss of special generational talent. Either way, for the sake of Rugby it is actually good for more teams to be competitive.

No, they’re not the same team, but it would be hard to argue that they aren’t as skillful and capable, if not even more. The depth is still impressive and there is so much true talent that isn’t even on the bench. I think’s it’s going to be as much about getting the culture clicking. I’m not sure this generation are as focused as say the McCaw’s of the world. They just seem to lack some of the calmness they had with the Reids and (Ben) Smiths out there or the Carter and McCaws. Not to mention that maturity of the SBW’s, Nonu’s, Daggs etc..etc.. there just isn’t the same level of leadership across the park.

Beside Aaron Smith I’m not sure I see the same maturity or leadership out there. Even Cane I’m not sure about, honestly I think he’s been a little lucky on a few occasions with some of his play and actions. Whitelock would have been my pick for captain, however I’m looking in from the outside.

Yep, off to play for Kurita => https://melbournerebels.rugby/news/2020/09/29/farewell-to-the-departees-of-2020

I’ve actually been toying with the thought that SRA (NZ) might not have been the best prep for the All Blacks. It was lauded for it’s high intensity games etc.. but I do wonder if playing each other at such a level week in week out may have actually taken a toll vs. sharpening their team.

I thought Deegan was off to Japan next year?

There are also some others floating around out there. Isaac Lucas was often floated as a potential future 10, he might bounce back to AU Rugby in the future.

Personally I feel Harrison really does look promising having a watched a lot of his Junior Wallabies play, though with that poor Tah’s squad who knows. Gordon and Edmed definitely could be the future.

JOC’s improved a lot this season but his kicking hasn’t been as good since all his ankle reconstruction/surgeries.

Don’t disagree, thats why I expect Rennie to keep it simple. I’m just not sure why Cheika comes into it like the players need to be deprogrammed or something? The players adjust to a new style everytime they leave their SR team setup/go into a Wallabies camp.

Pinetree, curious why you think it will take time to adjust to what Rennie wants (game plan/tactics)? A lot of this team isn’t the same as Cheika’s teams. Totally differnet playmaker at 10. I have no doubt the coaching staff have been communicating with players of interest all throughout the SRAU in terms of what they wanted key players to be working on/showing. We already saw a lot more kicking this SRAU comp.

Ralston benefitted a lot from playing in SRAU this year. He shows some real potential if he can keep getting some high-level game time which I don’t think GRR was going to do for him.

Interesting that he said be prepared to kick from wide channels with Koroibete & Daugunu out there 😛

Bit hard to say as we’ve really only been playing ourselves. Beginning of SR this year showed possibility and promise but honestly hard to say where this team is with regards to international level until they get out there. On paper I’d say last years team was a lot stronger but also had a lot of players who you felt were coming off their peak.