Haha! Well I, for one am not ready to bet against the trophy leaving the land of the long white cloud, just yet… let’s talk again at the quarter-final stage (should the AB’s reach them, that is)

Your attempt to curry favour with the English, prior to the tournament, has been noted T-Man. Good on ya!

Will you be applying for citizenship here after the RWC is over?

Nicely done, Harry. I agree that squad depth will be a key factor with regard to which team will ultimately prevail and win the tournament. By the time we reach the quarter-finals there will likely be one or two teams (in the last eight) for whom the term ‘last man standing’ will begin to resonate. However, for every team (regardless of their ‘depth’) with aspirations to either win, or go ‘deep’ into the tournament, there will be one or two players in their team who will be indispensable to their potential or ability to do so.

Recently, Geoff Parkes stated that the AB’s would not win RWC19 without B Retallick in their side. To my mind, a fit Retallick is one of the best players on the planet… coupled with that, Geoff consistently offers balance and sound analysis in his articles. IMO, his opinion carries weight. However, it has to be said that in 2011, there were also those who believed that the AB’s wouldn’t win without D Carter pulling the strings! The fact that they were able to so was testament to the depth in their squad and also NZ rugby in general.

As an Englishmen, I don’t think our team would have won in 2003 without either Wilkinson or Johnson. In 2019, Eddie Jones has stated that his 31 are capable of winning the tournament. However, I believe that if they lose either of the Vunipola brothers and Tuilagi, who are all seemingly, pivotal to what appears to be EJ’s preferred game-plan, ie., get over the advantage line (while sucking in as many defenders as possible) allied with quick ruck-ball that allows Youngs, Slade and Farrell to bring an electric back 3 into the game… While England has other ball carriers, the three mentioned are IMO, absolutely key and without all of them, fit and firing, I don’t believe the team will fulfil its potential.

If the squad comes through the group stage intact (injury-wise) then I believe that in terms of depth, options and talent available they are CAPABLE of winning the tournament though I’m not entirely convinced (at this stage) that they will do. Clearly, the quality of on-field leadership within the 2003 vintage was far superior to what we have seen to date, in the 2019 model and this in turn offers a compelling reason for the inconsistent performances over the past two years, in particular.
Nonetheless, roll on September… it’s gonna be a cracking tournament, perhaps the best yet!?

Harry, who, in your opinion are the indispensable Boks that your team cannot do without?

Agree with all of that Perthstayer, yet part of me will remain cautiously optimistic until the warm up matches are over and they’re on the plane to Japan! Sadly, I think it’s unlikely that the 31 players named by EJ will all be on that plane – though I’m hoping that I’m wrong.

‘Winning the World Cup doesn’t make another 2003, they need to do more than that…’

Say’s who? You? Hahahahaha! You really are the gift that keeps on giving T-Man!

I know you’ve reached ‘Guru’ status on the Roar and all that but… take a deep breath and come down from the stratosphere, or whatever exalted position you think you occupy…

@ T-Man

‘Without Wilkinson’s penalty goals they wouldn’t have won half the matches’.

If Auckland’s ‘King’ Carlos Spencer had applied himself with as much diligence to the technical aspects of goal kicking (prior to the game) as he did with leading the haka, before the game against England in Wellington in 2003, the AB’s might have won the match.

Newsflash: Penalty goals win tight rugby matches and are frequently earned through the pressure exerted by the attacking team over the defending one -who (like the AB’s in Wellington that day) resort to ‘illegalities’ to ‘stem the tide’ or on that day in particular, the ‘Tsunami’ of 13 men…

Did the England side of 2000-03, ever win ‘ugly’? You bet. Did they score a load of tries during their era of dominance? Yes. Are Rugby World Cups awarded to teams with the highest score for ‘artistic merit’? I’ll allow you to answer that one…

Was the 2003 win a one off? Roll on September…

Stop it FunBus! I’m becoming dewey-eyed with the memories you’ve evoked of Woodward’s mighty England team…
Eddie (on the other hand) has seemingly selected a less than mighty 23 to take on a near, full strength Wales on Sunday, at Twickenham. Having said that, the man’s a wily fox and I’m particulary looking forward to seeing how Curry, Underhill and Vunipola go, in the back row. Any thoughts on the game, or EJ’s selection?

Haha! EJ’s certainly a hard taskmaster isn’t he? But as you intimated Mungbean, the foundation for future performances (like the one against the Boks at RWC15) was probably laid by the b0ll#cking and ‘hard work’ that he was also appealing for in this colossal rant!

Mungbean, methinks it’s a good time to be living in Japan or particularly Miyazaki. Enjoy!

But please… if there are any dwarfs (or ‘little people’) in town, kindly ask the locals to keep them hidden…

Yeah, I hear you bigbaz. It must be a disconcerting when teams or their coaches don’t live up to expectations!

Perhaps it’s for the best that the future AUS coach does not value the set piece as much as the current England one…

Nice piece, Caddy but hey, I’m not sure…

Is there a case to be made for asking RA to swallow their pride – and ask Eddie Jones to come back to the fold? You could do worse…

Or would it be a case of asking Eddie to swallow his pride?

As an Englishman, it seems obvious that our ‘born to rule’ mentality, allied to our natural right to dominate and subjugate all before us – has been the driving force behind all of our ‘back to back’ world cup tournament wins in recent years in rugby, cricket and soccer. Clearly, anyone who thinks otherwise, is not a student of history or is intellectually ‘limited’.

Therefore, I would prefer the modest, understated Kiwis to win both tournaments. Unused to winning as they are, their supporters are also renowned for their generosity in defeat and magnanimity in victory… Come on NZ!!!

It was a long day, Neil… Having now read T-Man’s response I’m inclined to agree that sensible debate has indeed, left the premises.

Enjoy T-Man, enjoy!

Having now considered the substance of your reply to my post it would appear that you’re in need of some R & R…

If I may say, there’s a sense of ‘Desperado’ in your response and I have the feeling that you’re ‘Already Gone’!

Thanks for the response T-Man. It’s late here now… I’ll come back to you tomorrow.

‘From what I’ve SEEN this Crusaders side would win the 6N of 2019 in a walk’.

Therein lies the problem T-Man. How about opening the other eye?

Wasn’t it you that posted (after England’s win over Ireland in Dublin) that ‘if the RWC was played next week ENG would probably win it’?

So the question is, was your statement concerning ENG, a demonstration of clear thinking on your part? If so, then the idea that Crusader’s could pitch up at the 6N and win it at ‘a walk’, is (as already pointed out) quite frankly, laughable… unless, of course, you believe that the current Crusader side would be capable of winning RWC 2019?

Actually T-Man, I expect that England will learn from this defeat and their coach will be one of those who will take the most from it.

In the eyes of many, Jones is a lot of things (and yes – on this occasion, he was schooled by WG for the first time in 5 matches between the two) but ultimately, he’s no mug. As Neil and others alluded to earlier, a possible Plan B was waiting on England’s bench but for some inexplicable reason, EJ either didn’t see it that way, or didn’t want to deploy it. Go figure??

I’m not sure that England or Ireland (after one loss) are as mired in ‘mediocrity’ as some of your previous posts on this thread suggest T-Man. Come the RWC, I expect the current number 2 and 3 ranked teams in the world – and possibly Wales also – to offer a significant and sustained challenge (to the historical dominance of NZ, SA and AUS) during the tournament.

I thought Wales were excellent value for their win on Saturday and congratulations to them – but there is still yet, a lot of rugby to be played, in spite of WG pre-tournament prediction that Wales would win it if they beat France in the opening game.

If they weren’t before, Ireland (as underdogs) and particularly JS, will now be relishing their visit to Cardiff for that final game!

It has been said already but again, IMO. the sheer unpredictability of the 6N tournament, with its twists and turns, makes it the best – outside the RWC. By contrast, the so-called Rugby Championship (comprised of teams ranked 1, 5, 6 and 10) is won by an excellent side (but with boring monotony) year after year after year…

To be honest, if I really want to watch something where I’m certain who’s going to win every time, I prefer a Van Damme movie…

Quite possibly, James.

Ahhhhh… T-Man, how are you my friend? I’ve missed you….

Well thank your lucky stars that Malani’s coming to England! It probably means he’ll get his head down and put in a proper day’s graft for his inflated salary, amongst all the other good, honest yeomen at Worcester. It will be the making of him… you’ll see.

Unlike those other, former AB prima donna’s that seemingly make a beeline for France and before you know it, are having to explain to the local Gendarmerie why Better AB’S Don’t Make Better People… It’s a wonder that French law firms aren’t queuing up to ‘sponsor’ every new AB that arrives in their country with the knowledge that in due course, they’ll make a handsome return on their investment!!

That is, of course, unless you’re Julian ‘the Bus’ Savea – whose club (Toulon) owner – just wants to buy him a bus, in order for Julian to leave… Ouch!

Yes, I agree somer. When I encounter it, I find this particular approach to assessing the character and value of others, at best, disturbing and at worst, quite odious.
For me personally, your comment also highlights how one’s perception of another person, remains exactly that – a ‘perception’ – until the ‘other’s’ words and actions convey something more tangible with regard to their core and who they really are.

‘I do not feel there’s any need to be defensive – every nation has their own characteristics – to me they are simply neutral’

Hahahaha! No, Nicholas. Evidently, you do NOT believe that certain ‘characteristics’ are ‘neutral’, particularly those ‘traits’ you have already named and associate with English people… which of course, is why you launched your polemic (others might suggest ‘vented your spleen’) in the first place!

What I do believe, is that you like to have the last word?!! At this stage, I’m really ok with that because I’m bored now and its time to move on…

‘Do you understand why England is often perceived by the outside world as arrogant or high-handed?’
Umm… because historically, its rugby team have sought to play a forward orientated game in order to ‘dominate and control’ the opposition??
Ok… just having some fun with that one, though in truth, I think the analogy is flimsy at best, Nicholas. I was under the impression that most of the top tier sides set out to establish a platform through their forwards, in order to control and dictate the flow of the game?
But I’ll bite…
‘England sides of the 1970’s generally relied on a big pack of forwards supported by a back-line who either kicked the ball away or didn’t have the confidence to run it effectively. So England teams frequently achieved dominance in games without being able to exploit it… I see the need to dominate and control as an English characteristic’
In general, I bow to your superior technical knowledge and expertise concerning rugby but I think England have evolved from this very one dimensional approach you have described that simply seeks to dominate ‘up front’. So what about Woodward’s England team in 2003? I recollect that particular team arrived in Australia, in June that year (prior to the RWC) with a great forward pack and also with a stellar backline including Wilkinson, Greenwood, Robinson and Cohen. That team ran in three tries (to Australia’s one) winning 25-14 against an EJ coached Australia.
And again, from 2011-15, during Stuart Lancaster’s tenure… presumably you’re not going to suggest that England stuck to the same ‘one dimensional’ approach characterised by ‘dominance’ and ‘control’ under his watch? Were you not also on his coaching ticket at this time?
The obvious highlight of his tenure was the victory over the AB’s at Twickenham in 2012. During the tour of NZ in 2013, we lost all three tests but in spite of this we played some excellent rugby throughout the tour. Or are YOU willing to take most of the credit for this?!
I will readily acknowledge – along with many other English people I know – that ‘arrogance and high handedness’ have sadly, at times, played a role in our nation’s political history. But I don’t believe I owe you (or anyone else) an apology for this – or feel the need to avert my eyes in shame when I pass you on the street. For the record, those particular ‘traits’ were not the values that were handed down to me… They’ve not been handed down to my children either and are not the dominant traits of my friends or those I choose to socialise with.
Are these traits evident (or dominant) in the lives of anyone who currently identifies as being ‘English’? Yes, I imagine they are. Are these traits the preserve of English people only? Absolutely not.
In answer to your question… am I capable of recognizing both the positive and the negative traits of the English character? Yes. I think I am… Are you? Because your article displayed very little balance in this regard. Often in life, we see the things we want to see with regard to the material world around us and people in particular – yet ‘perception’ and ‘reality’ are often very different things. I know that’s been true for me, at times.
And if you choose to illustrate your point regarding England’s continued ‘arrogance and high-handedness’ on the basis of how England have historically set out to play the game of rugby –then both the evidence and reality is – England has moved on… Perhaps, there’s a message in there for all of us, Nicholas.

Yep, Ireland were ‘undercooked’ Nicholas because England turned off the gas…

But conversely Nicholas, several of the voices in support of Funbus and his ‘position’ on this particular article (like myself) do have a background on this site.
For example, I’m still trying (in vain) to establish a link between the issues surrounding Brexit and the permutations and tactical analysis (which you generally do, superbly) which may define who comes out on top at the end of this tournament?
If perhaps, the underlying purpose of your article was to say ‘Your historical past has in some way blinded you to the realities of the present and because of this, your ability to see who you are and how you are perceived by others, is lacking’ – then in one sense, that’s fine – but in another sense, that same statement would, to a greater or lesser extent, apply to every other nation on the planet (including Wales).
Furthermore, there was very little balance in your presentation. One negative cliche followed another…whereas issues in relation to national identity/characteristics are generally more nuanced and complex than you presented.

Nice try Nicholas but on that unbeaten run to date, they have not beaten the three teams currently ranked 1, 2 and 3 in the world – one of whom is England, who they have not beaten, home or away, since 2015.

Things may change on Saturday week in Cardiff but as things currently stand the results suggest that England are at present, the ‘superior’ team.

[Cue the ‘screams’ from the principality as the entire population of Wales place their hands over their ears!]