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Portugal based South African. Surf when not watching rugby. Favorite past player: Andre Venter Favorite current player: Thor Vermeulan
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Wales under Gatland have thrived playing a forward dominated game. ‘Traditional’ Welsh rugby of the 70s is long in the past. The Welsh loved winning under Gatland.
The AUS 1999 forward pack was serious business. Paul and Fineganwere bench warmers it was so strong.
Playing the traditional French way was also only possible with a proper forward pack doing the business.
Seems a lot of nostalgia getting in the way of reality. The set piece has always been essential to the better teams. NZ has dominated because their basics including forward / set piece basics are so strong.
Reminds me of people criticising the German way of football by only recalling the flair of the best Brazilian teams or even the great Barca tiki taka style got criticised eventually as being boring when compared to the premier league etc. Contrasting styles make the sport and generate fans and following not the other way round.
Also seems like SA is being judged on the SF and Final rather than as a general style and approach over Rassie’s time. The France / Bok QF is being lauded as possibly the greatest game ever because it bended power, pace, physicality and skill. That is only possible with teams that offer the physical attributes that France and the Boks do.
Legacies can't be won: History won't look back kindly on Rassie's Springboks
Spiro, an ungracious article in disguise. Nice one!
SPIRO ZAVOS: 'Crazy brave' Boks are a team for the ages - but key decisions cleared their path to glory
You’re clutching at straws regarding point 6. Undeniably the Boks had the tougher path to the final.
That Argentina side lost badly to 14 man England don’t forget. Doesn’t count when England beat them with 14 men as much as the AB’s almost winning the final with 14 men it seems.
Legacies can't be won: History won't look back kindly on Rassie's Springboks
‘Its a shame because the top teams are packed with world class athletes’
What would you define as a world class athlete?
PSdT is a world class athlete. The engine and stamina shown in the final was a sight to behold. Ridiculous amount of tackles, carries and impact. A man that size, putting his body on the line again and again, getting up and repeating is a seriously world class athlete. Just because it was not done throwing the ball around like an NBA player does not make it any less admirable.
Most NH fans and Bok fans admire that as much as skill and enjoy seeing it. Mauling 20m, crumbling the opposition scrum, driving the opposition back in the tackle, smashing through the gain line…..LOVE IT and as do MANY fans. I’ve watched rugby at Newlands, Ellis, Loftus, Twickenham, Murryfield, Rome and the Millennium Stadium and the crowd ROARS when that happens.
AUS used to like it when they had something resembling a forward pack.
Legacies can't be won: History won't look back kindly on Rassie's Springboks
Oh man…salty stuff coming out of NZ. The All Black Aura under threat and here come the fans who lived vicariously through them. Don’t worry, the sun will still shine tomorrow.
All this article proves is that AB fans can feel that their dominance is under threat and it makes them bitter. Not only by the Boks but by the French, Ireland and inevitably considerings size and resources England. The NH will benefit from more frequent exposure to SA while the opposite is true for NZ. Enjoy playing Aus and their franchise teams again and again and again.
I’ve always been massively complimentary of NZ and the All Blacks. Have read multiple books related to them and would have had no qualms losing to them on the weekend. But the cesspit of commentary coming out of NZ has been shocking and tarnishes the AB’s and their legacy.
If you look at this Bok team in rugby components it is not surprising they are 2 time RWC Champs.
Front Row strength and depth
Lock Strength and depth
Loose Trio Strength and depth
Top Scrum
Top Lineout
Maul well
Hit Rucks quickly and ferociously
Can generate quick ball when needed at will and slow down the opposition (reading this site and others over the last few days it seems that doing this well without being tabled as ‘cynical’ or ‘anti-rugby’ is a unique to NZ privilege who lets admit have had this mastered for decades)
Huge Experience
Serious steel in midfield
Top Defence
Dangerous back 3
Strong kicking game
Tactical discipline
Established and experienced 9/10 Combo
Impactful Subs
etc etc etc
A ridiculously strong team that is incredibly well coached. In all or at least 90% of the facets listed above the Boks are in the top 3 globally.
This RWC cup was won with no Marx or Lood. Pollard came in late and had hardly played. Bongi went off early negating the line out which is a massive weapon for the Boks that ended up giving possession back to NZ regularly.
The Boks clearly came out with a plan to win the game in the first 10-15m of the second half and nearly pulled it off. Missing a bunch of scoring opportunities. The AB’s came back when there was nothing to lose but the Boks knew they could hold them sufficiently by believing in their defence structure and not losing intensity.
I’m sure a forensic analysis of the game will also pick up multiple errors that went NZ’s way. I recall some crucial lineouts of theirs going as skew as an early morning pee.
Regarding 1995, Ruben Kruger scored a very clear try that would have been awarded. You never hear about it because the Boks won, as they have 4 times since 1995.
4 Boks
2 NZ
1 Aus
1 England
Looking forward to picking up on the AB v Bok rivalry asap, seeing this French team develop and hoping that Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Portugal keep moving forward.
Legacies can't be won: History won't look back kindly on Rassie's Springboks
No man, the domination over the Boks! But that said, has their been a more dominant sports team ever?
COMPLETE RWC finals teams: All Blacks' answer to Boks' bold 7-1 bench call, Smith returns for England
After years of All Black dominance I just cannot see the Boks as favourites. Too many beatings or games we should have won but didn’t to let that happen…the scars run deep!
COMPLETE RWC finals teams: All Blacks' answer to Boks' bold 7-1 bench call, Smith returns for England
It is going to be heavy. A 7/1 split with a double lock combo rather than double flank.
Looking forward to seeing Thor Vermeulen in what will be his last 40m in a Bok jersey being replaced by a smouldering Wiese having not played the last few matches.
The cover is there for one backline injury comfortably. 2 and Kwagga is playing backline. How often do 2 backline players go down in the same match?
What a chance to go down as one of the great teams. Double RWC winners with a B&I series in between against all the odds.
Proud to be sharing this final with the mighty All Blacks.
COMPLETE RWC finals teams: All Blacks' answer to Boks' bold 7-1 bench call, Smith returns for England
I don’t buy that. It’s like saying the 87 and 91 wins of NZ and Aus don’t really count because the Boks were not there.
It is also very ungracious to the losing teams that made the QF or SF.
'Wild honesty and deep anger' vs the 'good company man': Coaching box culture clash at heart of World Cup final
Obviously they would be bigger since 87 when the game was largely amateur.
Players would rock up pissed for matches and punch each other all game. If we are going retro let’s bring that back too?
England’s 03 team stood out from the rest in terms of fitness and conditioning. It is a natural transition as the game become more professional and so did its players who suddenly cared about diet, resting, conditioning etc.
Ridiculous comparing the 87 or 95 typical player with 03 let alone 2023!
Rugby’s descent into cynical play: Why neutral fans should back the All Blacks for the good of the game
Heard all of this in 07 when the Boks won the RWC as well as 2009 when they dominated the Lions and Tri Nations.
Heard it again in 19 when the Boks won the RWC and surprise surprise here comes the same nonsense again.
Look at the Box team and you’ll see players of exceptional skill playing an exciting brand of rugby. Kolbe, Kwagga, Fourie, van Staden, Faf, Libbok and Arendse are certainly not on the big side. Hell even Ox and Bongi are not particularly big players for their position.
How can you not admire the athletic ability and all court game of a PSdT for example? What an engine. A charging Etsebeth or Snyman offloading in the tackle not exciting?
A team that can and do play expansively but when needed can adapt to an attritional game. Have a look at their kicking stats this RWC. Around 20 kicks a game is well down from the average of 30.
This article is a bit lazy and uses unfortunate stereotypes. I prefer a balanced team like the Boks and France who have power, speed and skill. They know which aspect of their arsenal to ramp up against which opposition to exert dominance and that is what winning sport is all about. It is up to the opposition to adapt accordingly as France did with their bench selection and England did with their game plan. Once again, that is the beauty of sport.
Regarding the 21 Lions tour. How would you expect the Boks to play having had almost zero prep time and warm up games? Forgotten about the impact of Covid or did it not suit your narrow minded view of how rugby should be played in heaven? Get real man!
Rugby’s descent into cynical play: Why neutral fans should back the All Blacks for the good of the game
I’m generally an Eddie fan and the personality he brings to the game.
England lost more because of poor selections and a good French performance than Eddie running his mouth off. Perhaps he expected a squad full of leaders and pros used to winning to respond better post RWC final loss. Farrell, Itoje Etc struggled without the V Bros backing them up
Ex-England boss slams Jones over pre-match comments
Too many older foreign players not allowing their young players game time?
No excuses for England: Jones
Teams don’t need extra motivation when playing England. Eddie should zip it
No excuses for England: Jones
England needs to risk at scrum half. Youngs is as good as he’ll ever be which isn’t great. Surely there is a younger player with heaps of potential. Perhaps Neil can enlighten us?
No excuses for England: Jones
Eddie was understandably fooled. He smashed the AB’s who had beaten the Boks earlier in the comp. The Boks were also terrible against Wales.
Jones: I got RWC final selections wrong
I’m said nothing controversial or unique to Australia.
– The world is not Australia and I am looking at things from a global view. Football is the global game, while I’m not the biggest fan, there is no denying that. Agreed?
– Globally rugby is growing. Can’t deny that either. Would you change the game and how it’s played to perhaps (although unlikely until they start winning) put a few more bums on seats in Aus?
– Truth is, for a good few years, Aus teams and players have been pretty lousy. Any country with the fickle nature of fans would lose interest. I guarantee that if Aus had won the RWC that tests and most S15 games would be a sell out next season.
Don't go changing rugby union's laws
Not brave, just the English being English and massively overrating their man.
Andrews at 8 in the semi and final of the RWC in 95 was a unique occurrence. He was a superb lock. Only 22 when he won the 95 RWC
Three minutes when Maro Itoje failed to win the medal he wanted
Eddie’s going nowhere
Too much money in England and they will be entering into a dominant cycle now.
Ireland, Wales are going through a transition and will have a tough couple of years I think.
Might go back to France being their main rival. Interesting and smart move by them getting Edwards for defense coach.
Even so I predict 3 6N wins in a row for England. Young team will only get better
Jones silent on England coaching future
‘Don’t go changing to try and please me
You never let me down before’
Billy knows…..
The game is great, would be growing in Aus if they were winning and compared to other second tier sports (football being the only 1st tier sport in terms of numbers) is growing nicely.
But good stuff Corne, thanks for this
Don't go changing rugby union's laws
Very well said. Nailed it
Legacies can't be won: History won't look back kindly on Rassie's Springboks