Wellington ‘Orcas’ is the name of the bid for the 2018 NRL Broadcast Deal.

I respect your opinion, but I have never considered NSW to be the centre of Rugby League (even if my article tends to suggest that). The NRL has it’s roots in NSW, yes, but it certainly isn’t the most dominant state/area for Rugby League.

I’m sorry to hear about what you went through 3 Hats and i’m glad everything has been resolved successfully. Personally, I wouldn’t want to see the Rabbitohs, Sharks or any other NRL team relocated or removed from the competition. I formerly supported the Rabbitohs when I was a young child, so I would be disappointed if they (or any other team in general) were culled. Quite frankly, my article was only from the perspective of the NRL wanting to expand. I agree that the Sharks are very lucky to still be in existence today and there are plenty of valid reasons why they shouldn’t be in the NRL today, so it is somewhat unfair to be suggesting or analyzing the relocation or removal of other particular teams. However, I believe the NRL still need to address the question, as to whether the NRL can sustain nine Sydney teams in the long-term.

Superstar Superhuman, i’m not arguing that the Sharks probably would be the first or second Sydney team to be culled or relocated. To be honest, i’m surprised they haven’t already been relocated or removed, even as a Sharks supported. However their recent approval of the Wooloware Bay development and ownership of Remondis Stadium would make things more complicated if they were to be culled or relocated.

Do you really want me to evaluate all of the pros and cons associated with such a move Epiquin? I am quite willing too and seeing as though I didn’t feel as though I needed to list all of them in the article, I will list all of them here.

PROS:

Removing or relocating a particular team from the Sydney market will have drastic benefits on existing clubs and the individual club. Say, for instance, St George-Illawarra were “relocated” to become permanently based in the Illawarra and become the “Illawarra Dragons”. Crowd attendances, sponsorship, support and revenue would potentially increase for nearby clubs, South Sydney Rabbitohs and Cronulla Sharks as there wouldn’t be a team in close proximity diluting these key elements. Instead of having three individual clubs competing in an area within a radius of 20-25km of each other, you would have two individual clubs within Southern Sydney representing two distinct areas. These teams would also be in a better financial position, as these teams would significantly have to compete less for resources, financing and sponsorship. The Rabbitohs and Sharks would then likely draw upon a much larger population scale than what they currently do with the Dragons occupying St George territory. Likewise, the Dragons could potentially draw upon the greater population of 500K in the Illawarra/South Coast. Such a move would also better connect with a fair majority of it’s existing supporters and draw upon those who were reluctant to support a St George-Illawarra entity. As I touched upon in the article, it would also improve the code’s national scale and truly help the individual club and other existing sides more sustainable. It would also improve the overall image of the code and result in the competition becomes significantly more competitive against rival codes. Existing and relocated clubs would reek the rewards of such a move. Sydney Swans relocated from South Melbourne, with much success. The existing Melbourne AFL clubs have since benefited from a decrease in competition.

CONS

Removing or relocating teams could potentially lose the support of existing areas and may result in a loss of sponsorship, attendances and finances. For instance, removing the Panthers from Penrith would possibly lose the support of local residents and fans alike. There is a possibility that a rival code, such as the AFL or A-League, may profit from such a move and develop and grow their own code in the original base of the NRL club. Such a move does not guarantee that it will be successful. Residents from the area in which the club relocated to may reject the proposal and refuse to support them. Such an action may result in the club folding as it would lack the support from it’s intended relocation and it’s original fan base. Sponsors would be unwilling to back them, as a result and club officials and players would lose their jobs. Relocating a team is also a poor idea, as you would be most likely moving the players away from their family and friends. It isn’t guaranteed that the players would be able to move to the base of the team’s new location and it may force them to leave the club. If a significant amount of players left, it would leave the team without enough players for it to be truly competitive in the competition. It would not be able to sign a considerate amount of new players, as the NRL rules regarding transfers have recently changed and it would have to compete against other clubs, who are financially successful.

As for the whether the benefit outweighs the cost, both outcomes would need to be carefully considered. These actions would have significant pros and cons.

Thanks for the honest feedback Renegade. To be honest, I personally wouldn’t like to see teams cut, de-merged or relocated either, however will the nine Sydney teams remain sustainable in the long-term. That is an issue in which this article largely addresses and will there be a point in time in which in order for the NRL to well and truly grow on a national scale, it may need to relocate or remove particular NRL teams. Personally, I hope not, but it is possible.

Fair point Kirk, however not all of the teams on the east coast of Australia will be well positioned in the long-run. As I mentioned, Wests Tigers and St George-Illawarra are already reliant on NRL funding to keep them afloat, despite the fact that these areas are predominantly rugby league territory. I wouldn’t suggest establishing franchises in regional WA and SA, although I believe that Perth and Adelaide are capable of rugby league teams. The NRL are making an effort in expanding to Perth and Adelaide. The recent Rabbitohs vs Warriors match played at Perth attracted 20K fans, which proves to show that there in interest in rugby league from the West Coast. There is even a bid for the 2018 NRL Broadcast Deal for a team based in Perth, called the West Coast Pirates.

I never suggested that St George should be kicked out. I suggested that they should become entirely based in the Illawarra/South Coast and draw upon the greater population of 500K between these two regions. It would still be the same team, as it is today. Canterbury should be retained, I admit, however it would increase the presence of Sydney teams in such a national competition and it could potentially dilute the support of Parramatta and Western Suburbs.

At the end of the day, as my article is based on, the NRL will never truly become a national competition. There are simply too many teams based in Sydney, however the risks associated with relocating or removing these teams would be quite severe.

Me, a silly person. Then, explain to me why the top code of rugby league in our country is called the NRL, the National Rugby League?

Thanks for re-alliterating the premise of the article nopuritan, however I disagree, even if I am biased, that is based on nonsense. Personally, I believe it is actually reasonably true. If the NRL wants to truly compete against rival codes in this country and become an actual national competition (not just a QLD/NSW comp with a few extra teams “chucked” in), it needs to remove or relocate teams in Sydney and expand into other areas. Having 9 teams solely based in Sydney is not sustainable in the long-term.

Gee, thanks for that Ken. I hope you appreciated my state-based conspiracy. All of my article re-alliterates is that the NRL will never truly become a national competition with the amount of Sydney teams currently in the NRL. Besides, how have I turned it into a so-called “state-based conspiracy” when I am suggesting removing or relocating teams from NSW and into other areas interstate?

In fact, the NRL does have it’s roots in New South Wales. The NSWRL became the ARL during the 1980’s and eventually in 1998, the ARL and Super League merged to form the NRL. If the NRL had it’s roots in Queensland and from the QRL, we would potentially be discussing how there are too many teams in Brisbane. :S

I believe you may have misinterpret my idea. When I am referring to Central Queensland, I am referring to the Central Queensland coast (between Sunshine Coast and Mackay). Sorry, I probably should of made that a bit clearer.

“Why does Adelaide need or want a Rugby League team”.

The same could have been said about Melbourne, a city with an overall support for AFL, but look at how successful the Storm are now. An Adelaide team would have many benefits to the NRL competition and it would grow and develop the game on a national scale. Like Perth, Adelaide also had a rugby league team, albeit in the Super League era. Although, it is still capable, like Perth, of having an rugby league team in the NRL.

I do indeed have knowledge of RL history and the Steelers history. I will re-alliterate what my article suggests. The Dragons should become permanently based in Wollongong. I never said that an entirely new club should be created or that the Dragons should cease to exist. It would still be the same team, as it is today, however it would be solely be based in the Illawarra/South Coast. It would still have the same finances and resources as the current Dragons side have and it would be more sustainable for a national rugby league competition. There are essentially three teams within Southern Sydney at the moment, South Sydney Rabbitohs, St George-Illawarra Dragons and Cronulla Sharks. These three clubs are potentially diluting the amount of support and crowd attendances that each individual club could be receiving. People must remember, the Illawarra is apart of the St George-ILLAWARRA Dragons entity. It’s not as if the club would be moving to an entirely new area. You would still have fans from the St George area who would support the team. Besides, a vast majority of people from the Illawarra/South Coast support the Dragons, so it’s not as if they would be disadvantaged in anyway if that were to occur. As for the Steelers, that it just my personal opinion. I never mentioned that they SHOULD return.

I never mentioned that Manly should be culled. One option I mentioned is that Manly would need to expand their territory, so the club can cater for not only the Northern Beaches, but also North Sydney and Central Coast. If the club failed to undertake that, then the Central Coast Bears would be included into the competition. Maintaining a team which only caters for the Manly-Warringah area is not sustainable in the long-term.

Penrith Panthers are not the NRL’s most successful club. Melbourne Storm, are in fact, the most successful club in the NRL with a winning streak of 64%. Penrith may have a massive development proposed for their site, but it doesn’t guarantee that they will be successful on-field and off-field. I would probably retain them over the Cronulla Sharks, however they could potentially risk diluting the support of Western Suburbs.

I never said that the Steelers HAD to return in such a case (that was just my personal opinion). All I was, and still am, suggesting is that the Dragons would be permanently based out of Wollongong and cater for the greater population of 500K in the Illawarra/South Coast. Besides, even if the St George joint has the finances, the Illawarra joint mostly provides the juniors base. Why not combine both of these successfully and become a sole Illawarra/South Coast entity.

Actually, it is Balmain who have $0 dollars between the two sides. In fact, Balmain Tigers nearly sold their leagues club because of how much debt they are in. The Western Suburbs Magpies have better finances than Balmain and would be capable of operating as a single entity.

Between the Bulldogs and Eels, I only chose Parramatta because it is based in Sydney’s “2nd CBD” and it would have the potential to cater for a larger amount of supporters in Western Sydney. Bulldogs would also be a worthy addition to a truly national rugby league competition, however, but then you could risk the fact of people addressing the fact that there would be too many teams in Sydney.

As my article suggests, this is why the NRL will never be a truly national competition. There are simply too many teams in Sydney, but it is unlikely that a considerable amount of these clubs will ever be relocated or removed, as there would be significant consequences or backlash from supporters of these clubs.

Agreed, although I believe an lllawarra franchise has the appeal to potentially draw upon fans all the way down to the Victorian Border. An Illawarra/South Coast team would be a success IMO and I really hope a franchise is established into the A-League sometime in the near future.

I agree. People from Wollongong want their own team, not a team predominantly based in Southern Sydney. I certainly wouldn’t support a joint Wollongong/South Sydney franchise if it entered the A-League.

I agree. Personally, I believe a new Gold Coast franchise could be established, as long as it was planned thoroughly and had better ownership. The people of the Gold Coast were hard-done by that fool Clive Palmer and they deserve to have a second chance in the A-League. A team on the Gold Coast wouldn’t disadvantage or dilute the support of the Brisbane Roar either, so it would be beneficial for both clubs.

Thank you for your kind feedback LordBrucie. I believe Brisbane can support a second team in the long-term, however that’s only if the Roar’s financial outlook is stabilized and the club wouldn’t be disadvantaged in any form. I would even go as far as saying that Gold Coast could even support a new franchise, as long as it was planned thoroughly and not owned by a heartless millionaire.

The fact is, would you risk further disadvantaging a side which is already experiencing stability concerns or would you establish an entirely new franchise which covers an untapped market? The latter is more preferable and it can potentially be far more beneficial than establishing a club which risks diluting the support of the existing club and the long-term sustainability of the club. Just because an area has a significantly greater population, does not necessarily mean a second team is warranted. The Melbourne Heart weren’t overly successful until the City Football Group bought the franchise and they are based in a city of over 4.5 million people! A city in which Melbourne Victory were (and still are) receiving far better attendances than the Brisbane Roar (before Melbourne Heart even existed). The “fishes” are not only in capital cities. Wollongong, Canberra, Tasmania and Far North Queensland deserve to be represented in the national competition and as such, they would further expand the game’s footprint. The populations of Greater ACT, Illawarra/South Coast, Tasmania and Far North Queensland are either close or exceed the 500,000 requirement and there is a higher demand for these areas to have an A-League licence than a second Brisbane team. There are other factors which go into making a new franchise sustainable and successful, not just based on population. You could establish a third team in Sydney or Melbourne, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that it will be sustainable. Are you saying that the A-League should only
establish capital city sides, because they have a significantly larger population than regional areas? Now, that is a rather shallow analysis.

Very true, although we would have to be careful that the introduction of a second Brisbane A-League team wouldn’t disadvantage the Roar in any form. Attendances of 5-10K wouldn’t be a concern in the early stages, however it definitely wouldn’t be sustainable in the long-run. Personally, if a second Brisbane A-League team were to be included, I believe it would have to cover an area which is largely untapped by the Roar in order for it to be truly successful. Establishing a club in the early stages of another club’s history can be beneficial, but it also risks severe consequences if it is not planned or executed thoroughly.

I’m not entirely convinced that the Storm will finish in the top four. Traditionally, Melbourne’s form declines after State Of Origin, so they may just miss the top four. In my opinion, I believe the top four will be Dragons, Broncos, Cowboys and possibly the Roosters. I believe the Raiders may have a chance of finishing in the top 8 this year, as long as their form remains consistent. Sharks will probably finish in 10th or 11th, but there is still a slim possibility that the side will make the top 8. Either way, the competition is very tight at the moment and results could go either way, although I believe Dragons, Broncos and Cowboys will definitely finish in the top four.