By stillmissit -
March 22nd 2009 @ 8:37am
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The Waratahs are driving me to Queensland!
Having been a Waratahs supporter for over 20 years I am almost over it. I now truly believe that this is a group of young men who don’t play like a team and appear to not even like one another.
There appears to be little or no talk on the field and I am really over the tactics of aimless kicking and hoping the opposition make a mistake.
The Waratahs never make any positive plays and the kick chase is a bunch of guys trotting after the ball and the only chaser, if there is one, is the kicker.
The game is played by the Waratahs at a pedestrian pace and they seem ‘all weight work and no speed mate’ to quote ‘Once were Warriors’. There is no intensity in their game and it all seems to be about patience and the opposition will stuff it up, which must be the most negative way to win a game anyone could dream up.
With 2 mins to go and the Crusaders in possession they still would not throw players at the ruck and only one forward tried a counter ruck on his own and was thrown back like an old blue lunch bag from a trawler.
I am also sick of seeing 3 or 4 players (always Phil Waugh) doing all the work whilst the rest of them bludge through the game, or worse still they wake up for a while and then go back to sleep.
Phil Kearns said about a Crusaders player (Waldron) that he only makes about 1 mistake a game and zero is unheard of, I disagree, we have 10 Waratahs who wont put their hand on a ball or try to catch a kick for fear of stuffing their zero mistakes game. The fact that they do nothing seems to have been ignored.
This game was appalling and a comparison to the game prior of the Chiefs v Blues was like day and the darkest night. The Crusaders if they have any sense will take nothing out of this game as it was played barely out of second gear.
These guys are in deep crap but they don’t know it, I haven’t enjoyed watching any game this year and it seems to me to be Ewan’s tactics by a bunch of incompetents.
Where is Chris Hickey? Why isn’t he being more proactive in building a team that can get passionate about their game?
I was lead to believe by a couple of guys who know, that Chris was a great coach, if that’s so it’s time to start coaching or we are back on the hunt again for next season.
At one low point after another pointless unchased kick that the Crusaders ran back at us 40m and then knocked on the Waratahs looked a beaten team given a small torch of hope by the fact that they knocked on.
The long suffering fans of the Waratahs deserve so much more and I don’t think they will get it this year.
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(56)
Jay Mac said | March 22nd 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
I started out with the best intentions to watch it but the Waratahs’ typical boring drivel of a game plan nearly put me to sleep, so I switched over to the league
Jay Mac
tarpo said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
Stillmissit, as usual you are on the money, the Tahs are imposters, welcome to the Reds!!!!
equalizer said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:18am | Report comment
Stillmissit, there are far too many players in the waratahs who have been picked for reasons other than ability. Sydney club rugby is more enjoyable to watch because the talented players overlooked by NSW rugby selectors are playing. A less biased system of selection needs to be introduced-perhaps a series of trials? Club rugby should be your main supplier of rep players, not the academy.
Mel Brubeck said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Stillmissit,
Thought Kurtley, particularly in the first half using his god-given speed showed more initiative than usual (he’s really quite quick) running the ball at their line; probably saw Gits’s attacking style of five-eighth play for the Force last week and took a leaf, but to the Crusaders’s credit, they’re an amazing squad superbly coached, always ready to play and give 150%. Last night the CC’s defence was just fantastic, closing down our ’slick backs’ without not too much trouble. Let’s be honest, they stopped us dead in our tracks every time we put on a good attacking move.
Where to from here? To next week’s game against whomever… bring ‘em on.
Freier’s loss is a big blow. It’s the forward pack we really need to look at; create the platform and our backs will have a far easier time. Correct me if i’m wrong but Caldwell and Mumm looked well and truly out of puff in the second forty, as they usually do against the Crusaders. That Thorn is wicked. And rest assured when he retires they’ll find someone just as lethal to fill his boots, such is their incredible depth. Anyway, there was only four miserable points in it, so there’s still hope
Darryl said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:26am | Report comment
See ya later stillmissit – the sooner the tahs get rid of spineless turn-coat fans like you the better. The tah’s will come good and the true fans minus the gutless whingers on this site will enjoy it when it happens.
Rickety Knees said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:30am | Report comment
Mate – I could not agree more. I am completely over the East Sydney Tahs!
Go the Reds!
Nashi said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
I had the great displeasure of watching this game in the company of a Kiwi. Not that he supports the Crusaders, but he just loved watching the Waratahs lose. I have been doing my best to keep positive about Beale but I’m afraid reality has set in and the guy is just plain clueless. Maybe the Tahs could get away with it if we had a class ball playing 12 outside him, but I haven’t seen one in sky blue since forever. I have consigned the rest of the Super 14 to the dustbin until I see glaring headlines telling me that the Tahs can actually pass the ball and support each other in broken play.
God help us if the Wallabies play like this! My Kiwi mate will mock me all the way to the looney bin!
Mel Brubeck said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Equalizer, “Sydney club rugby is more enjoyable to watch because the talented players overlooked by NSW rugby selectors are playing. A less biased system of selection needs to be introduced…”
Very valid point. This endless twaddle that some players are picked ‘too young’ or sre still ‘too young’ and we have to be patient till they ‘mature’. Yeah right. That’s certainly the way to pick a S14 team and win tournaments.
gekko said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:56am | Report comment
Couldn’t agree more.
Supported the Waratahs for 30 years, but little joy lately. It would be an easy option for me as I lived in Brisbane for the past 10. If I were at ANZ stadium last night, I certainly would ask for a refund from the Tahs. They were like a council gang, one doing the work and 4-5 watching it.
stillmissit said | March 22nd 2009 @ 9:57am | Report comment
Darryl – There’s a chance that I was supporting the Waratahs/NSW when you were still wetting your pants in 1975. I would hardly consider myself a turncoat and have watched with horror the slowly disappearing guts and determination to play for the Waratahs over the last 10 years. The history of the Waratahs should be taught to all of these guys so they understand what they should stand for and how the rugby in this state was built on great men with an ethos few of these guys today could understand.
Good luck to you and yours!
stillmissit said | March 22nd 2009 @ 10:08am | Report comment
equalizer – I agree. I reported last year that I spoke to a first grade prop who had played against all NSW props and wasnt impressed with any of their scrumaging ability and he claimed there was about 4 other props in club football who felt the same.
If a rep player cant stand out against club players then the selection process is wrong. I think there is something wrong with the academy process but I like the idea and dont know what it could be.
The problem appears to be that there aint no coaches who will back their own judgement and select players from club and maybe second grade club if they think the player has what it takes. Over 25 years of reffing I have seen many players I thought could have made it but I never saw them in a rep team or talked about. Maybe Bob Dwyer should be retained by NSW to wander around clubland and make suggestions about players who could be given a trial without going through the academy system. If you like a finer filter to make sure we havent missed any talent.
Rob said | March 22nd 2009 @ 10:46am | Report comment
Stillmissit, read a bit on another site about selections that you may find interesting. On Hickey ,as I’ve said before Hickey performed well at Eastwood but it was on the back of a good structure that was put in place before him and he was blessed with an excellent club 5/8 in Donnelly. When he went oseas Eastwood came back to the pack a bit. Hickey still might be OK but along with another Roarer I start to question whether he is all that happy with the team he has been given.
LeftArmSpinner said | March 22nd 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Stillmissit, as Paris Hilton would say, (when not appearing in amateur pornos) Ohhhhh Myyyyyy Goddddddd!
You going to QLD????
Rather than descend into the emotional “carry on”, here are some thoughts and observations, a report card if you will.
1. The whole team looked jaded, body language-wise.
Why? It may be the amount of defence their tactics (kick, kick, kick) have dictated they must do. It could also be that they have not used their bench wisely, leaving fresh players on the bench for weeks on end. If you are on the bench, you must get at least 25 minutes. Fresh legs count in the game and over the duration of the competition.
2. The whole team played jaded, except in defence.
Defence is the barometer for team determination and morale. Clearly, there are conflicting signs.
3. The Breakdown lacks commitment.
Further to point 2, they lost the breakdown, failed to clean the Crusaders out or speed up the ruck ball. this Directly affected the backs chances and their space and time.
4. The set pieces are doing fine.
Despite losing Baxter, Dunning, Kepu and Freier, and probably 150 Wallabies caps in the front row, and Vicks, Lyons and Elsom (another 120 Wallabies caps), but the replacements, TPN, Palmer, Thompson, Mowen and Caldwell have risen well. Foley probably has a lot to do with this. However, the coaching staff are as surprised as the bookies because they hid thompson on the bench (Palmer didnt even make the bench) for several weeks without giving him any game time. Palmner did very well last night.
5. The ruck ball is too slow.
Where has Mowen gone, where is the clean out, where are the turnovers ????
6. The “Go forward” is no existent.
Palu has also gone off the boil, playing with injury and appears tired and out of sorts. Mumm has not got his hands on the ball. Mowen’s mobility is missing.
7. The backs are dysfunctional, despite exceptional individual talent.
The backs are struggling for several reasons. In no particular order, it is because of the slow ball they are getting from the forwards. Further, even from set pieces, there is no snap in their play. Too often, Beale is putting the ball in the hands of the catcher as the tackler arrives. The defence is reading the plays and the attacks doesn’t adjust to another option.
They have failed to go around the defence or through it. It is a recurrent problem. This suggests that it is coach sanctioned. Beale is a fundamentally good 5/8, but is young, lacking confidence for the first time in his career. He is suffering second year syndrome (I discount his cameos in 2007), after competently leading them to 2008 final. He is also suffering from not having a much needed apprenticeship, like Carter and Giteau had outside the likes of Larkham and Merthens. I have to read between the lines but I suspect that there is something seriously wrong with KB, emotionally. He is being publically vilified and is only 20 years old.
LeftArmSpinner said | March 22nd 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
And so to solutions:
5 weeks ago, the Tahs were rated as 8th place finishers by the bookies. 8 days ago, the Waratahs were in first place, undefeated, after wins against three, more than competent NZ teams.
1. ALL IS NOT LOST. DONT PANIC!
2. Start Mowen with Thompson back to the bench and Mumm into second row. Bring Dennis/Beau Robinson and other bench players (Sheehan, Fitzpatrick, etc) on after 50 minutes to add fresh legs.
3. Get Palu, Tuqiri and Turner into the game carrying the ball, probably off Burgess’s snipes.
4. Give Beale and Horne a few weeks rest on the bench, and start Halangahu and Tahu for the next two games at least. Initially, use Carter as ball carrying hit up and tackling 12, with Tahu at 13. CArter then goes to 13 in defence when opposition starts to open it up and go wide. After 20-25 minutes, use Tahu as attacking 12, using his footwork and off load, and in particular, from second and third phase ball with one on ones.
Get SNK to run off Carter’s and Tahu’s FAST second phase ball.
5. Simplify the game plan, keep the ball in hand, play direct rugby for 20 minutes, reduce the kicking, improve the support play and then go wide when a mismatch presents itself.
6. Review last year’s games, pre and post the midseason revival. The difference was that the players started playing a more expansive game and enjoying themselves again.
LeftArmSpinner said | March 22nd 2009 @ 12:38pm | Report comment
And finally, when someone gives you home team advantage, take it, use it and don’t trade it away for money. The Tahs train, meet, eat and greet at their $10M SFS headquarters. So, why move to another stadium for a smaller crowd, poorer spectator experience and loss of home advantage against the most successful provincial team in the world!!!!!!
Who Needs Melon said | March 22nd 2009 @ 1:02pm | Report comment
Jeez there were a few people waiting for this article to come out – 3 hours old and 10 posts already on a Sunday.
I’m afraid I’m siding with the majority here. The rest of this post might read a bit garbled because I’m very confused.
We’ve commented for weeks on the tactics and selectons but what’s most worrying is the apparent attitude in the team which a few above have already touched on, mentioning “commitment” or “body language” or whatever. This was a big game and the players SHOULD have been up for this. What’s more they had the game in their grasp… and even this didn’t fire them up.
There were a LOT of players just trotting around the park. Very slow to get up. Very slow to get back into the defensive line. Very slow to get anywhere near the breakdown.
The players who DID seem to give a stuff (to some extent) were Burgess, Waugh, Robinson, Tatafu, Carter, Norton-Knight, Turner and Tuqiri.
Interestingly even Horne who has usually been enthusiasm personified hasn’t seemed as ‘up’ recently. There has to be something behind this. All talks of tactics and position changes aren’t going to mean anything if the team doesn’t have the right attitude. With the right attitude you can overcome all sorts of shortcomings. You can’t cover up the wrong attitude with tactical chances and minor position adjustments.
LeftArmSpinner said | March 22nd 2009 @ 1:15pm | Report comment
Melon, you are on the money. It is not just one or two players. The malaise is right across the squad. Sheehan, the angry bull ant, is a great motivator and could be used very effectively to track the whip around the forwards.
Controversially, I thought Beale was also trying, but ineffective. Similar for SNK and Tuqiri.
I’m with you that maybe there is something deeper than we can determine from outside the camp.
I thought Palmer had a good game, in that he wasnt embarrassed at set piece time, after a early call up. he’s young do thats good. Thompson also did his job.
Horne’s hands let him down when he changed the angle deep in attack in the first half, and lethargic when he had the ball. SNK’s pass to Turner was behind him and poor by SNK’s standards. Tuqiri dropped several balls.
Okay, here is another theory. The Sydney rugby press is too quick to criticise and scrutinise the perennial underachievers in the Super 14, and based in the best facilities and the biggest city, etc, etc. Solution is easy. Dont read the papers or watch the TV.
stillmissit said | March 22nd 2009 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
LAS & Melon – you 2 are right on the money. Loved your how to get back on the winning road LAS. Maybe you should be the coach?
I too thought Palmer( I thought his name was Thompson) had a great game in the scrum and was rock solid with excellent strength as the Crusaders prop was trying to work him over. Great replacement for Baxter. Palu is a great player but not a leader and he plays great rugby when lifted by those around him, he cant do it by himself. The Waratahs must know that Burgess is going to makeat least a couple of breaks every game, yet they stand back and watch him run everytime and then there is nobody to take a pass or support the breakdown.
Why is it that if they get criticised by the media they fall to pieces and yet if the coach gets the bullet they play like champs? I always thought that criticism sparked you into action assuming you accept what is being said but no, not in the Waratahs, they collapse and are found sucking their thumb in the corner. Are these guys men or what? excusing the 20 year old Beale and Horne.
At a few hundred thousand a year (and a few on much more than that) we have to have players we cant criticise, only pamper and give gallons of ‘emotional’ support to?
I can see the steam coming out of Phil Waughs ears from here if he read this stuff.
Bay35Pablo said | March 22nd 2009 @ 4:31pm | Report comment
I agree with LAS about the criticism Beale is getting. The bloke has been hyped since he was playing U15s for Joeys. Unless he players world class ever second of his life he is a failure apparently. If he had been on the field the full 80 in the final last year I think we would have won it. Without him we lost spark, with him the Crusaders were never quite sure what he was about to do.
If he gets driven out of the sport into league it will be a crime. With mentoring and proper coaching he could be leading us to the RWC in 2011 or 2015. However, the know nothing media seem quite content to bash the bloke and whoever else strikes their fancy. And the NSWRU board will as usual actually pay attention to the criticism, show no cojones, provide no leadership and either do nothing or the wrong thing.
How is anyone surprised at what we are seeing? It is the same malaise we have seen time and again over the last 15 years. Remember in the late 1990s when we had a team with Strauss, Kearns, etc. Everyone said we coudn’t not win the S12. We played like prima donnas and all fell apart while the board knifed each other. The media reported gleefully on everything while whipping up the frenzy. Same thing again. And everyone acts surprised?
McKanezie came in, rebuilt that side to a lean mean rugby machine, had support for a number of years when times were lean, and somehow gets punted. The current problem all stems from the lack of loyalty to Link. Any wonder the team doesn’t feel llike putting in for a team that rewards loyalty and good service?
The team needs to following:
1. Sack most if not the entire board. Make most of them independent directors from business. The rest rugby appointees from leading stakeholders (Country, Subbies, Clubs, etc).
2. Drop Beale, Burgess and Tahu to the bench. Pick Sheehan, Halangahu and Carter. Watch how the boys off the bench suddenly start playing like they want to be on the field again.
3. Give Hickey what he wants, and tell him he is guaranteed his job until the end of 2010 come hell or high water, and stick to it. Tell him we want to play an expansive game and if he doesn’t have the cattle to do it, go get them.
4. Start picking a club land rep side to play games against the Runners, Waratah Academy, etc. Watch as they tear some new orifices …Alternatively, stop using the Academy side as an apprenticeship scheme, and start using it as an extended squad to let leading club players go professional, and mentor the young pup section of the extended squad.
5. Stop picking so many bloody Joeys boys in the Academy side. While they churn out talent, you can’t tell me they have every top player in the state (no matter how many scholarships they hand out). It reeks of who you know determining who gets a contract, not how good you are.
Rob said | March 22nd 2009 @ 7:42pm | Report comment
Bay35Pablo.Does Joeys still have the clout that it used to have or has that moved to Kings? While I’m being bitchy why not look at the % of rep players who come from Eastwood, Syd Uni and Easts. Are they the best clubs or do they somehow get their players a leg up? As you say Beale has been pushed from a young age. I think he is OK but it certainly helps if your manager is one of the Ellas. (have I got this right?). We worship the Ella name and accept everything that has been said by one of them. But I liken it a bit to Campo. No matter how great he was does that automatically mean that what he says is gospel? I think some of your other points may have merit.
Bob McGregor said | March 22nd 2009 @ 7:47pm | Report comment
Well I guess it had to happen. The Tahs have finally imploded and appear likely to finish where the OZ Rugby writer predicted they would prior to the season kick off – about 8th if memory is correct. I thought ‘what planet does this guy come from’, but over the past 4 weeks I too have come to this conclusion.
Recently we were hosts to 2 Qld Reds couples who ventured south for the local derby. They were full of expectation of beating the Tahs but were totally disillusioned after the game. I suggested they reserve their judgement on the Reds as I really rated their Sth African performances and predicted they would be OZ’s highest placed team at the end on the season. Their game plan was on the verge of ‘clicking’ and once they got their injured forwards back they would be a great side – barring injuries of course. Such was the case the following week.
Later we found out Mc Meniman was informed his father had died just before the game was to start but he elected to play. Such news had to rub off on the forwards and team and it did. I thought that the Reds were unlucky to lose against the Tahs and only a fluke stripping of the ball to fall into Tahu’s arms saw the Tahs snatch success from the jaws of defeat.
Up until that game the Tahs were just getting there but all the signs were that the wheels were about to fall off. This we have observed over the past 2 weeks. The forwards were playing well enough but the backs were dysfunctional in both attack and defence. On paper the backs appear to have loads of potential but cannot put it together. Their defence has been poor, especially around 10 and 12. I like most, know Beale has loads of potential but he ALWAYS overplays his hand so that defensive patterns have been put in place to nullify his influence. Consequently the whole backline has degenerated with his ineffectiveness. But one cannot sheet the blame on Beale – the coaching staff must know what his limitations are and try something different. Perhaps swapping SN Knight with Beale – have been suggesting this for 2 seasons – but first, Beale must be instructed how to tackle. Too often he attempts to grab around the shoulders to be flicked off as one does a fly. Perhaps he needs more time to develop additional skills elsewhere?
But the lack of skills in the backline and POOR option taking is even of more concern. High balls are not chased effectively and Turner is mainly at fault here. Too often he – and Tuqiri – stops 2 metres from the catching defender awaiting his action. Can’t someone tell him to barrel the catcher – not in the air of course – but that has never been a problem as our high balls are hopeless, never putting effective pressure on the catcher. Then again Turner’s option taking is poor and this criticism from one who championed his cause. He needs to get more involved at every level otherwise he will degenerate into another GUNNA. A little sliding kick ahead here and there approaching the last line of defence is all that’s required but the TAHS continue to persist with the ball in hand mantra except where kicking ineffective high balls. Oh for someone who can kick and chase as Leon McDonald did for the Crusaders yesterday. His “plays’ won them the match. We had enough possession and line breaks to win the match but it all came to nought. We cannot finish and until we learn HOW to achieve that result the Tahs will remain a team of GUNNAS!
Being a life Member of the NSW Rugby Union since 1987 I cannot change sides BUT it doesn’t stop me supporting ALL our sides and good Rugby where ever I see it. My aspirations are for the success of out National team irrespective of where they come from.
sheek said | March 22nd 2009 @ 8:28pm | Report comment
I’ve been a Queenslander for nearly 40 years, through thick & thin, good & bad. Haven’t always liked their rugby, but usually loved their passion.
Is NSW a problem of the coach failing to select a game plan to suit the players at his disposal? Or attempting to enforce a style on his team some/most players are uncomfortable with? Often it’s a fine line.
Is Beale being asked to follow a game plan he doesn’t possess the skills for? And what of Tahu – is the coach failing to properly exploit his skills?
I don’t know what the answers are. However, I do know this. Many people had the impression the Waratahs were false leaders several weeks ago. Perhaps they have merely been exposed for the imposters they are.
I found both the Tahs & Force games a real grind to watch. In fact, I read the paper or a magazine most of the time, merely glancing at the TV every so often. Australian rugby at the provincial level has lost me for the moment!
Another thing. Maybe if there is a national comp, we DO need 3-4 teams from Sydney, simply because there’s too many fingers in the pie, too much politics, too many contrary views.
Jimmy said | March 22nd 2009 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
I think the coach is just trying to get the team to play a game plan they arent suited to, he needs to take the shackles of Beale, Tahu and Turner and just let them do what they do best, which is running the ball and playing enterprising rugby.
stillmissit said | March 23rd 2009 @ 7:54am | Report comment
I agree with most of you about a level of freedom that the team doesnt seem to possess. A structured game must be something that they believe in and train for yet they have great free thinkers in Beale, Carter and Horne. Particulalry with Beale I would put him at full back and say you just do whatever you think is right to win us the game. Of course you would teach him some positional play for fullback first. 2 seasons at fullback and I think we would have the complete player. I would also have Lote covering Beale as his ‘wingman’ to ensure that the opposition attacks are shut down. SNK would start at 5/8 with Carter at 12 and Horne 13. Tahu would get half a game and Halangahu would come off the bench for SNK depending on how they are going.
Who Needs Melon said | March 23rd 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Again, I do NOT think the issue is any of the following:
– skills
– tactics / gameplan
– confidence
– fitness
– positions
There may be minor issues with a few of the above but the main issue is attitude. Unlike the 2nd half of last season when they looked like a bunch of guys playing for each other, now they look like a bunch of guys playing for a pay cheque.
Something ain’t right in camp Waratah.
It’ll be interesting to see where this apparent wave of off-contract Force players go. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of them are interested in going to Queensland.
el_capitan said | March 23rd 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Melon,
Will be intrested to see if the Reds take some Force players back. AFAIK, the Reds would not want Sharpe back, even if he wanted to move. The bridge was burnt there long ago. Some of the jnr players that left the Reds for the Force, may be welcomed back, but I believe that Mooney has developed a young squad who want to play together. Pride in the jumper is back, as you only have to see the Reds Ad compain.
Jameswm said | March 23rd 2009 @ 9:03am | Report comment
It’s simple.
More support.
Support the ball carrier so he has options. Support the tackler so you can contest for the ball. Support the ball carrier when he’s tackled so you can win quick ruck ball.
Support the kick retriever so he has counter-attack options. And support the kicker by chasing the kicks.
Carter is one mentioned, but Staniforth is another tireless support player. The Crusaders have 15 of them and always have.
I do feel support is an attitude thing, but then so it tackling and NSW’s defence is usually strong.
I was out and taped the game on Sat night and haven’t been able to bring myself to watch it yet, based on the reports. But the lack of support has been a problem with the Tahs for a while – and the wallabies for that matter. I had hoped Deans would make a difference.
Having said that, can we get Deans down to help out for a couple of weeks?
stillmissit said | March 23rd 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
Jameswm – good post and support is the key as too many players are left exposed. I am also sure that Deans and Hickey will be speaking, most probably right now, as he was there for the game.
You have said somewhat more subtly what Melon is saying and that is the attitude has fallen away again. This is after the boost that shooting Ewan had on the team mid season last year. Maybe Hickey is too soft and they perceive that it is back on the gravy (No) train again?
BTW – I heard at the Deans function in Penrith last week that Burgess has approached his club coach for passing practice and advice as he hasn’t had a session this season yet. Unbelievable!
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | March 23rd 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
I’ve been sitting at my desk for hours frozen in a state of complete shock. No not over the Tahs loss – I’m used to that by now – but over the article with the headline ‘The Waratahs are driving me to Queensland!’
It’s not the article that shocked me. It was fine in fact it’s better than fine, it’s tremendous. It’s the name attributed to the headline that really made me sit-up and take note. T’was by the pen of the most noble of Waratah gentlemen the right honorable stillmissit.
If ever there was someone who was going to be buried wearing a Waratah jersey under the Wallaby jersey I thought it was him. So what happened I asked myself to change that.
One possible answer is that he really has had enough. Who could blame him and other Tahs fans? But I suspect there’s more to this than meets the eye. Another possibility is that he’s penned the article, whizzed it off for consideration and someone at Roar HQ has seen the opportunity to ‘Sex it up’ and added the title to give it more…..well spice. Worked for me.
So what is the truth SMI? Will you dump the Tahs after all this time and become a Red’s supporter? I for one would never hold that against you mate.
Let’s be honest there are thousands of fans who must feel as you do but unlike many of them you are anything but a ‘fair weather’ fan. You have been there through thick & thin. You’ve played the game at a pretty decent level (so I recall) and you have a good of what’s wrong and when to say ‘enough is enough’.
So let’s have the truth. Was that your headline? Are you defecting? And as the song goes ……….”if you leave me can I come too”?
Jameswm said | March 23rd 2009 @ 10:53am | Report comment
stillmissit I sat next to Al Baxter at a function last year and in the 60 seconds I had to chat to him, I asked him why under Eddie Jones the same props who did well for the Tahs seemed to battle for the Wallabies. He said it’s simple – they hardly practised their scrums with Eddie.
Now wouldn’t you think scrumming for a prop and passing for a half back are pretty core skills?
Maybe someone down at Easts is especially good at teaching half-back passing, but you’ve got to wonder what these pros do with their time. I have an hour a week with my U10s but each week we practise tackling, passing, rucking etc – the core skills. How can the pros not fit this into their 16-20 hours a week they practise?
True Tah said | March 23rd 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Jamesswm – I would have thought as a hooker, E.Jones would have given a bit more importance to scrums?
I really agree about the support play, or lack thereof for the Tahs – for mine, it was the reason they lost. Look at the second Crusaders try, there were any number of blokes who could have scored that try. Contract that with Tom Carter’s burst, where I think it was Horne? who ran too soon and missed the offload – if Horne had been running a better line, he would have scored no doubt.
It just seems that when the Tahs make a break like Lote or Turner did, they are hoping the player making the break scores the try so they dont have to catch up with play? Are that unfit? Has Palu put on weight because right now he seems to be slacking off a bit and is a shadow of the wrecking ball we saw last season.
Even looser said | March 23rd 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Jameswm – I remember you posting about that conversation with Big Al before and it surprised me then. I have to say that each time I’ve seen the Wallabies training on TV that they have been either shoving a scrumming machine around the park or contesting against an oppostion pack but then maybe that was just for the cameras.
Same goes for the half back’s passing game of the Tahs. For the cameras it’s quick service and slick passing that gets to the wing quick smart. Come game time and the wingers are twiddling their thumbs. What gives?
stillmissit said | March 23rd 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
Blinky – I have to own up that I wrote the title. My partner and I have been getting our kicks out of watching the Reds (who we used to hate) and getting frustration ++++ watching the Waratahs. Can I desert the camp? Well not really, when I started watching some of my mates were playing for them and the battles between those filthy Reds and our clean, good Blues was a great spectacle.
I was thinking, whilst on the mower last night, that maybe we can trace the start of the NSW Waratahs problems down to the demise of the Qld team. Over the last 10 years Qld hasn’t been too flash and I think this has caused the Waratahs to mentally check out. You can imagine the thinking ‘Well as NSW is so dominate, I should be in the Wallabies squad regardless’ of course the Brumbies have had a solid hand in there as well, so may be my thinking isn’t so wonderful.
I am genuinely interested to know the answer to this problem. I used to think it was just professionalism IE chasing the maximum dollar for minimum input, but I don’t believe that anymore.
stillmissit said | March 23rd 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
JamesWM – I think there is a false expectation that when you make the S14 or the National squad that all of your skills are there and the real need is for 55 complex patterns and plays that a bloody genius would have a hard time understanding.
If the story I heard about Burges (ie his not getting any passing training) is true and your story about Baxter is obviously true, something is wrong with coaching in general at the elite level.
I went to a meeting where Tim Sheens, the great league coach spoke. He said that the first thing he does when he takes over a team is teaches them how to pass and catch. One of his players said to him “Why are we doing this shit, we are not kids” he said “When you can catch and pass both ways better than kids, we will move on to something more challenging”
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | March 23rd 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Stillmissit – Ah so we haven’t lost you yet to Qld. Good! Sheesh how bad do the boys need to travel for you to chuck it in?
What’s up with NSW? I’m favouring the attitude angle. Maybe these blokes who let’s face it were not even around when things were amateur need a trip through the Rugby museum of life. Maybe they need to meet and understand what it meant for past generations to don the Blue jersey. Maybe they need to understand what it meant for scores of us like Moi here who was never good enough but ‘would have if he could have’………… well you know what I mean. It’s about passion, backing your mates, commitment and it goes way beyond the pay cheque.
We love our team and we want, expect and demand our players to honour those who went before. To me that’s what tradition is all about.
I just hope that Chris Hickey is reading some of the comments on various Rugby sites. IMHO the 09 season for the Tahs is on a very slippery slope and unless he gets things right and I mean right now…………it’ll be all over red rover. Tough decisions need to be made.
Jameswm said | March 23rd 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
I agree and each season, we go back to basics on catch pass, tackle, ruck etc. Heck, every 6 weeks or so we probably do it. I describe the passing motion to the boys as an elephant’s trunk swinging. They all think they can do it, then wonder why the pass isn’t going to the right spot.
You’d think with the pros each week the scrum would practise against a team trying to mimic the opponents they will have that week. If they train 4 times a week, they should have two good solid scrum sessions each week.
Ben said | March 23rd 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
are tquiri and norton-knight still fighting over the push in the back incident 12 months ago?? you see them walking back in the line as though they cant stand eachother.
I’ve also seen each Tahs game this year, and not too motivated to get back again. i think they’ve had a couple of lucky wins with stu dickinson as ref, and have played dead-boring footy. I hate to admit it, but the rabbitohs v roosters the week before was an awesome game of league – end to end and loads of attacking and points, chris hickey could learn a lot from rugby league attack.
as for beale – maybe he does need a couple of years in the NRL to hone his attacking flair. at the moment i cant see the boy wonder we all thought he’d be when playing for joeys.
ohtani's jacket said | March 23rd 2009 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
Why are you focusing on the backs so much? The Waratahs were beaten at the rucks by the Brumbies and again by the Crusaders, this time without Richie McCaw. You can have all the backline talent in the world, but if you’re losing the battle in the contact area then you’re going to struggle.
stillmissit said | March 23rd 2009 @ 1:47pm | Report comment
ohtani’s jacket – Good to hear from you how are things in Japan (I think)?. Yes we were beaten in the rucks as well as in the backs. The Crusaders out defenced us and out muscled us generally.
I think most of us believe that the forwards can front up if they feel like, it but the disorganisation in the backs is almost a criminal waste of what good ball we have.
Note: we dont seem to get much in terms of good ball to attack with.
Ben – I would be surprised if they were. It just seems, looking from the outside, that they dislike one another very much. Maybe its one of the reasons SNK is leaving at the end of the season.
I am also of the opinion that Lote is a disruptive influence in the Waratahs and wouldnt make it past the ‘no dickheads’ test for the aerial ping pong boys in Sydney.
True Tah said | March 23rd 2009 @ 2:06pm | Report comment
stillmissit
Im not too sure about Lote being a disruptive influence at the Tahs, Im fairly certain playing with Lote was one of the reasons Beale decided to stick with rugby and he also got his cousin in the Tahs squad as well, even if Big Ratu has yet to have a game.
Having said that, those bloody fluoro green boots have to go Lote.
ohtani's jacket said | March 23rd 2009 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
Stillmissit,
Things are going well in Japan. My family are coming over for my wedding at the end of the week, which reminds me — I should be preparing!!
One last comment — The ‘Tahs seem to be in two minds at the moment. They won a few games and people criticised them for boring, negative rugby. They tried to move the ball a bit against the Crusaders and they were criticised for lacking the basic skills to do so. It makes you wonder how they’ll approach the next game.
Halfway through the competition is not a good time to be searching for your identity as a rugby team.
Big Steve said | March 23rd 2009 @ 2:41pm | Report comment
The most noticable change from winning to losing this year has been the breakdown. The first 4 weeks the tahs won the breakdonw the last 2 they got shut down. Surprisingly Ben Mowen started the first 4 games and has been on the bench for the next 2?
Why can’t any of the backs cut back inside or run even a slightly different angle. SNK is the only one a few times a game. Tiquiri and especially turner just wait on the wing.
LeftArmSpinner said | March 23rd 2009 @ 2:50pm | Report comment
OJ, on the money yet again.
I also remember the current situation, and the Roarers reaction, being very similar to last season, just with even more ineptitude on the field from the players. Same poor effort, same negative body language, same frustration from the fans, same kick, kick, kick tactic. Then it changed against the Blues, I believe. Burgess started. He ran the ball, spiced up the attack, was supported by Palu and others and the boys started enjoying themselves again. Carter was everywhere.
But last year was let degenerate much further than so far this year. So, can they lance the boyle now or will it continue to fester?
Bob McGregor said | March 23rd 2009 @ 3:02pm | Report comment
When Waugh left the field the referee asked who’s the Captain. I heard this on Sports ears – unless I’m totally deaf [I'm on the way] I’m fairly positive the answer was one Lote Tuqiri. What good can he do way out there?
On Saturday the Tahs had enough ball/breaks to win the game comfortably. They could not finish their many opportunities. My belief is – and I’ve expressed this here many times – our backline is far too flat. Beale threw a great pass to put Horne into space but he put it down. It was virtually on the gain line. Had he been slightly deeper his sight would not have been impaired by defenders and possibly caught the ball with line wide open. Who’s the backs coach? Far too influenced by Randwick’s [Cyril Towers' ] flat line attack/keep ball in hand under ALL circumstances mantra. Until they can think otherwise the Tahs will struggle.
southernwaratah said | March 23rd 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
My online name came about because I’m a Waratahs fan living in Melbourne, I’m glad I didn’t move back to Sydney a few months ago because I’d have bought a membership….
PastHisBest said | March 23rd 2009 @ 3:47pm | Report comment
I watched the game again last night and one thing I noticed (i don’t know if this happened in other games), is that a lot of the time Beale runs bloody sideways! Toward his inside centre! He hardly ever runs straight to draw the defense and then pass. All this does cramp the backline and drag defenders across. Madness.
Bob McGregor said | March 23rd 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Past His Best.
Such sideways drifting is exacerbated by having such a flat line attack. Everyone becomes cramped and it is much easier to defend. Crusaders – indeed all NZ teams – stand much deeper with only the “illegal blockers” anywhere near the gain line when they are on attack. We should learn from their deeper structures. It sure works for them.
Hoy said | March 23rd 2009 @ 4:13pm | Report comment
The reds are the same. When you watch from the ends of the grounds, they crab like noone’s business.
Bob McGregor said | March 23rd 2009 @ 4:29pm | Report comment
Hoy.
But by standing deeper than the Tahs the Reds can switch/run different angles. When Tahs do so on a flat line at/near the gain line they inevitably trip over themselves. Think about the tries the Reds scored against the Sharks by switching lines. Brilliant!
Hen said | March 23rd 2009 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
Stillmissit,
Being a long time Reds supporter I have two things to say – firsly good on you for coming to your senses and supporting the Reds, secondly – ARE YOU MAD!?!?
Here are a few tips I picked up over the past few seasons for coping with begin a Reds supporter:
1 Set expectations low, very low, so low that you even expected them to lose the ‘bye’ fixture mid season.
2. Stare at the sun through your binoculars – when you can handle that pain – you might cope with watching the full eighty of a Reds game.
3. The Reds only have one good game a year in them – this years was the Sharks.
4 If a Reds player starts to perform – he’ll either suffer a season ending injury – or move to Force, Brumbies, Waratahs the very next game.
stillmissit said | March 24th 2009 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Hen – I can see where you are coming from as a long suffering Reds fan. At least your team in improving who knows what is happening with the Waratahs.
We watch all Australian games and have done for years. My partner and I were suddenly impressed with the development in the Reds attitude about this time last season. We loved Horwill and thought Barnes was playing very good football, although we didnt like it when he was moved to 12 to give him a chance of playing outside Giteau in the Wallabies. We REALLY liked the guts and determination of Peter Hynes but thought he would never get picked for the Wallabies. Ionane has great speed and McMeniman looked the goods, but how could you tell from about 30mins on the park all season. The main thing about them was that they were putting in a total effort considering their skill set every week and Mooney is doing a great job and should be the next Wallaby coach after Deans takes over the AB’s.
My prediction is that they will make the semi’s this year so hang in there. I think the Reds are in a better place as a team than the Waratahs at this time.
Watch out for more Reds in the Wallabies before the World Cup comes around.
stillmissit said | March 24th 2009 @ 7:31am | Report comment
ohtani’s jacket – good luck with the wedding, I am sure most of the Roarers here will be wishing you well.
You may be right about them not being sure about their game ‘identity’ but after about 4 years of the same thing, I think they know what they want to play and that is:
1. Commit the minimum to the breakdown to ensure we have a solid defence.
2. Ensure our set pieces are adequate to get basic ball.
3. Never attack their line from anywhere but inside their half but preferably only in their 22.
4. Kick the ball up-field and keep our defencive line, that will take care of any counter attack and maybe we can win a T/O.
5. Your first reaction should be to maintain structure not take on the defence yourself.
6. Stay calm even if there is only 2 mins left and the opposition have the ball don’t over commit to the breakdown.
7. We live off their mistakes.
I don’t know what you guys think but as tactics I prefer players to play structured rugby up to a point and then break out using their god given skills and speed.
ohtani's jacket said | March 24th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Stillmissit,
Thanks for the well wishes.
A lot of those structures they’re trying to put in place have been successful for other sides and it seems to me that the Waratahs have been trying to emulate the better sides.
I think they should study how the Bulls scored from a set play in the 22. Counter attacking — as pretty as it may be — is opportunitistic. TIme spent in the opposition 22 is an overriding statistic in the modern game. In the past the ball moved quickly from one 22 to the other, but these days a lot of the game is spent in the midfield. You’ve got to make the most of your opportunities in the opposition 22 and while the Tahs are one of the better sides at barrelling over from the pick and go, it leaves their outside backs cold.
It’s amazing how often Super 14 teams blow their opportunity deep in the opposition 22.
stillmissit said | March 24th 2009 @ 9:54am | Report comment
OJ – yes you are right, Alison my partner is always going on about how they get into the 22, dont score a try, and then just keep banging their heads against the wall rather than grab 3 points with a drop goal and go back and start again. She may have something.
tarpo said | March 24th 2009 @ 8:35pm | Report comment
OJ, don’t always agree with your POV, but usually enjoy your insights nevertheless.
All the best for the wedding, wishing you & your wife a life filled with good health, love, money,& time to enjoy them.
LeftArmSpinner said | March 29th 2009 @ 8:34am | Report comment
presumably, Stillmissit, your GPS has advised you to make a U turn and return South down the Pacific Hwy!!!!!