By Spiro Zavos
June 15th 2009 @ 7:09am
Related coverage
The Wallabies start with a bang and a new star
Wallabies v Italy at Canberra Stadium. The Wallabies won 31-8 - photo by Brett McKay
As young men in New Zealand we were told always to look at a girl’s mother before getting serious about her. Something of that mantra seems to have rubbed off on John Mitchell, the former All Blacks coach and now coach of the Western Force, when he cast an eye over a very young James O’Connor.
O’Connor had been spurned by rugby league scouts because he was thought to be too small. Had no one told them about Clive Churchill?
The lad started to play rugby union. Mitchell went on his scouting mission. Saw the obvious genius in his play. But more importantly noted that his father was a chunky, well-built man.
Like father, like son, Mitchell reasoned. O’Connor was snapped up by the Western Force. Last season he was called into the Hong Kong Sevens and played so brilliantly your correspondent wrote a blog on him giving him a potential kiss of death by calling him ‘the next Tim Horan.’
Later on last year Mitchell gave O’Connor a start for the Western Force against the Hurricanes. The youngster handled the massive Ma’a Nonu quite comfortably. He was picked for the Wallabies European tour which stymied any chance of the South Africans or the New Zealanders (two other countries he was eligible to represent) picking him up.
And now, in his first Test and still filling out, O’Connor has become the rare player to score three tries on his Test debut.
Admittedly, he ran in a total of about 15m for his tries. But this disregards the fact that there is a high skill to position yourself in a way to make scoring look easy.
Ars celare artem, as Virgil wrote (true art is to hide art).
The great players in any game make their mastery look easy. O’Connor makes scoring tries look easy. But, of course, it isn’t.
When Lachie Turner made that sizzling break after about 4 minutes of play, Stirling Mortlock and Berrick Barnes had come in towards the lineout to create the gap, and O’Connor drifted forward on an outside line so that Turner was able to pick him up as he was tackled near the try line.
This ability to position himself to continue the movement and cross the line if the gap is there is very much an ability that Tim Horan, of blessed memory, the greatest Wallaby inside centre, had. Horan could even read David Campese on the burst, when the great winger himself had no idea where he was going and what he was going to do.
But in the Rugby World Cup quarter-final against New Zealand in 1991 when Campese threw a ‘hail Mary’ pass over his head after a bewildering run, there was Horan to grab it and cross for the try.
Robbie Deans is patiently building up a Wallaby side that is going to be extremely hard to hold this year and even more so in 2011, the Rugby World Cup year.
Italy are a noted scrummaging and mauling side. But in neither the scrum, until Al Baxter was replaced, or the rolling maul were the Italians able to do much damage to the Wallaby pack. The pack will benefit from its dedicated scrum coach, Patricio Noriega, who was brought up in Argentina in the days of the bajada, 8-man shove.
The Wallaby lineout was secure until the erratic Tatafu Polota-Nau replaced the splendid Stephen Moore. It would be interesting to see if someone else in the pack can throw the ball in. Polota-Nau played number 8 for some years and in time this might be his Test position.
The backs were impressive in the way they took the right options on most plays and then executed these options. The Deans notion of playing what is in front of you once the play unravels is beginning to be learnt by the backs.
I was impressed, too, along with Greg Martin, on the way the back three worked as a unit, always positioning themselves so that they could run back kicks that were not well-directed.
The Wallabies look to be a more formidable and intelligent side than last year’s model. Admittedly the Barbarians and Italy (which now has lost a record 9 consecutive Tests) were not confronting opposition.
In two weeks, when the Wallabies play France at Sydney we will probably get a better indication of just how good the 2009 Wallabies and their new star, James O’Connor, really are.
My guess is that a very good team is being created.
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Mike said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:24am | Report comment
Nice opening line, Spiro (and very true)!
I am inclined to agree with you about the very good team also, although we will have to see how they perform against AB and Boks. Given Les Bleus sound performance, also against France.
Brett McKay said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:45am | Report comment
France will definitely be the Test Spiro, as you’ve quite rightly suggested. The Italians gave and will give good opposition, but you could always tell they would run out of puff.
Agree about the back three too, there were times on Sat night where you could seen them working together to read where the ball was coming from , and where they needed to go. Similarly, we were impressed from out Gregan-Larkham Stand seats the way the midfield would retreat into an almost “zone defence” as the Italians kicked for territory. It was a good hit-out all in all, and I agree that the team appears to be bulding. We might see a few “second-stringers” get a run this week (Tuqiri, Waugh, etc), but I think we’re seeing something pretty close to Deans First XV currently..
mike wc said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:54am | Report comment
on another slant on this game couldn’t Gower tackle when he played League – certainly doesn’t seem inclined now! Waved them thru like a conductor!
Terry Kidd said | June 15th 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
I agree about the team with one exception …. Sharpe is seriously looking like a passenger with the lineouts the only time he earns his match fee.
Jameswm said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:05am | Report comment
Kimlin is the goods. I hope they give him a full go this week. Maybe they’re bringing him along gradually but I’d love to see him team with the tighter Horwill.
Hoy said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:59am | Report comment
I am scared that O’Connor is a better centre than fullback. Given the fact we have some good 5/8s and centre options now, I hope he isn’t ruined by slotting him in just so he can be there. I think that ruins players.
If they want him to play 15, then play him at 15, and don’t shuffle him around.
Sam Taulelei said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:07am | Report comment
While the opposition hasn’t been as confronting that can’t disguise the fact that this side is building very nicely under Deans. Their kicking game is accurate, long and varied. The back three are working more as a unit to launch counterattacks and getting themselves into positions to do so. The forwards are efficient and creating a good platform for Burgess and Giteau. Defensively they’re strong and in Mortlock they have an inspirational, lead by example skipper. They’ll account for France in a more convincing display than NZ is capable of at the moment.
This is the season that the Wallabies need to make their mark and improve on last years record, particularly on the road.
Ignoring the scorelines against the Baa Baas and Italy and focusing on the little things that indicate a team is happy, confident and performing well these Wallabies are going to start winning some silverware back this season.
At the beginning of the season I would have rated Australia’s chances to winning back the Bledisloe as being unlikely given two games are in NZ – from what I’ve seen of them so far I’m now beginning to worry.
Brett McKay said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
hey, I’ve just noticed it’s my photo!! Cool…
mart said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Was that opening line written by Gordon Ramsay ?!
reds fan said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
I thought they did ok. Scrum fell apart in the last 20mins which is a worry.
I think 9,10, 12, 13 and 15 are settled. Although I think burgess still has alot of improving to do. Will Genia could make an excellent back-up to him.
And without sounding too parochial, I’ll feel better when Hynes is back on the wing. I think the wing positions are anything but settled. Its been easy for them so far. The Italians have no backs of note and the Baabaa’s had no cohesion. The French and Bokke will provide a sterner test. Hynes, Turner and O’connor as the back three for mine. Digby can pocket his yen and take a leap! We want team players who are hungry for Wallabies success.
In the forwards I’m still unsure about the backrow…. I had expected Mumm to really go for that number 6 spot. Brown needs to realise its not Super rugby and lift to that next level.
TPN’s throwing was again dodgy… its a fundamental.. get it right.
Sharpe…. well……..
Virgil said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:34am | Report comment
I’d be interested to know how many hit-ups Sharpe had. For mine, he was the hardest worker of the tight five (except perhaps Moore) and made some great over-the-advantage-line runs. People are constantly bagging him about being a plodder but the fact is he works hard and reaches the advantage line very consistently (whether thats because he hits the line hard or he’s just so bloody big – I don’t think it makes a difference). He’s also a toiler in defence (can you think of the last time he missed a tackle?). Another question that needs to be asked is how does taking sharpe out affect the scrum? I’m no scrum expert but the current tight-five seem to be extremely ‘tight’ currently when packing down. Will pairing kimlin with horwill at the start of the game change this?
reds fan said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:39am | Report comment
Virgil, I’m with you on that. Not everyone can be “dynamic”… he’s a big thumping lump of a bloke. He does add alot of substance…. no speed, but definitely substance. And with a partner in Horwill who does have a bit more pace, and carries the ball a bit wider, and does the backing up for tries, maybe they are a good partnering….
where can player stats be sourced from?
old goalie said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:45am | Report comment
i still can’t beliebe Polota-Nau can’t throw in – who else would hold down their job without being able to do one of the main components?
reds fan said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
I’m with you there old goalie… it is a concern. What is worse is that last year his throwing fell apart under pressure, yet there was no pressure on Saturday night.
Jason said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:18am | Report comment
Good article Spiro. O’Connor is like Wally Lewis, Tim Horan, Allan Langer and Matt Giteau. Physically not amazing but is just a natural foorballer. He’s a footballer not an athlete and these are the most valuble players. He’s is one of those players who just manages to score tries. Its not a co-incidience he scores a lot of easy tries. As a natural, instinctive footballer he reads the play well and is always in the right position. Add Elsom to the pack and Ioane to the wing for another go forward, tackle busting back to assist Mortlocks work load and we’re looking good.
ABs showed again there toothless without McCaw and Carter much as Aussie cricket have struggled without Warne and McGrath. This isn’t suprising. A great team needs some great players.
Justin said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:56am | Report comment
Terry K – Would I be right in saying you have had it it for Sharpe for a while now?
I agree with Virgil and redsfan – have just been watching the reply on Fox (nearly half time) and Sharpe was the best forward on the park. Had more runs (where he got over the advantage line) and more lineout wins also. Horwill by comparison was not sighted and nor was Mumm.
Sharpe isnt quick but he nearly always gets the advantage line or past it and he has plenty of involvements in the match.
Worlds Biggest said | June 15th 2009 @ 12:02pm | Report comment
I have mentioned previously on the Roar that TPN should be looked at as a backrower in particular No 8. He played Australian Schoolboys at Number 8. Imagine TPN, Smith and Elsom backrow. I don’t know if Mumm is a Test player. Sharpe cops plenty of flak for being a plodder. Is he expected to do the 100m in 10 seconds ??. The fastest 2 rower in Aust Rugby is probably Mark Chisholm however he is often injured and his hands a little suspect. Sharpe is reliable and does the job for the Wallabies. Who do you pick instead ?. Great move with Noriega as scrum coach. Can Farr-Jones be brought in as a mentor to Burgess who clearly needs it. He needs some structure in his game.
Who Needs Melon said | June 15th 2009 @ 12:53pm | Report comment
Quick question: Shouldn’t there be a rule like boxing that if a player is out cold for more than 10 seconds, they can no longer take any part in the game? I was amazed Turner was allowed to play on until the end of the first half. Clearly they examined him at half time and judged it best to keep him off. Why wasn’t this same assessment made on the field when he came to?
JamesB said | June 15th 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Jason – the difference is McCaw and Carter haven’t retired and Warne and McGrath have.
Worlds Biggest said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
Turner may have to sit out for 3 weeks due to the concussion rule. This will open the door for Hynes or Lote.
retiredrucker said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:16pm | Report comment
I’m so relieved that we got a scrum coach, as well as one that never took a step backward. Lots of respect for Noriega. How’s the knowledge base at Dean’s disposal, himself,williams and Noriega. I get the impression Dean’s is an expert delegator – enough rope and empowerment, now show us the money!
Remember his tackle on the wallabies tryline in the Bledisloe to save the try, absolutley stand out. He won’t take any crap from the wee boys a training!
As a Force fan I sometimes question Sharpes hardness but have been impressed with his work rate this season in super 14. I thought his work rate against Italy was good, I would have thought the young guns Horwil and Mumm would have hit up a bit more and taken the load off sharp but no, sharp took as much as he could.
I believe Deans and Williams have a far better insight into what sharpe is achieving for them than we do from our arm chairs. 2 young gun second rowers might not give the balance and head space deans is chasing in the tight 5.
Chuck said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Can the commentators please refrain from annointing Giteau the best ever until he can slot over conversions from in front?
Adam Ashley-Cooper is nearly as overrated as Polota-Nau…seriously bad hands
Burgess was again strong on the weekend – has hopefully shut up a few of the critics (no other halfback in Australia even comes close to his ability to challenge the defence around the rucks [thereby creating space out wide])
Terry Kidd said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
G’day Justin,
Yes, its true that I’m not Sharpe’s greatest fan but I will admit that under Deans he is playing tighter and is no longer discussing dinner menus with wingers.
Yes it is also true that he has tried a few ball carries …. and so he should …. but please tell me when he uses his size to clean out at the ruck, to break tackles or to off load.
Yes, its true that in the last 2 games he has made the advantage line …. because the Baa Baa and Azzuri defence both stood and waited for him …. but he has not busted the adanatage line like he should against both of those packs.
At the first suggestion of a tackle Sharpe goes to ground. There is no leg drive to propel him on, to bust thru. When was the last time you saw him bust a tackle?
Sharpe carries the ball with both arms wrapped around it so there is absolutely no way he is going to off load in the tackle.
In defence he tackles but doesn’t hurt. A guy that big should be denting suits of armour when he hits.
Reds Fan and Virgil have valid points that I paused and thought about but I still think Sharpe’s all round game is good enough. Yes, he is big and thumping and is no speedster so why can’t he give us a big thumping game with some mongrel and leg drive to go with the frame in attack and defence? If he does I’ll shut up, if he doesn’t then sit him down and look elsewhere.
Hoy said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:35pm | Report comment
Retiredrucker, are you thinking of Rodriguez, not Noriega? I think Topo was the one with a mammoth tackle on the try line, and from all accounts, “threw the All Black down like a rag doll”.
One Wise man said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Dame shame about Lachie Turner
Boy is he a big guy for a really fast Winger. Didn’t realise until I met him the other day
He is tough 1 week out should be enough
Did anyone see Lote play on the Weekend for Wests what a shocker
Surely everyone has like Deans woken up and realised he is crap
Lote is nowhere near Turners or Hynes ability
BTW wait till we play France and the All Blacks before any of you think this years team is bet
retiredrucker said | June 15th 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Hoy,
Your right, I got that one wrong, I was thinking Topo. Well I hope Noriega has the goods!
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
I was (& still am) as pleased as anyone by the appointment of a scrum coach. Initially I was wondering if Willy O was available but for some reason he’s not considered. So well done to Noriega on getting the job. I think!
I do wonder though about all the various coaches, trainers, physios & visualisation specialists……….okay maybe that’s an exaggeration. But you get the point right?
So as the Forwards Coach, what is Williams responsible for? And when is too many coaches too many coaches?
Remember Sir Clive and his team of trainers? Bloody hell they had more coaches than players.
Virgil said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:12pm | Report comment
I take a few of your points on board Terry. However, I think that if you take him out because he isn’t breaking the line then you aren’t considering the big picture. Firstly, we’ve got Horwill, Brown and Moore breaking the line fairly often and when Elsom comes back – there’s four big blokes breaking the line with some pretty good consistency… do we need to pick another bloke like that? Another bloke who WILL NOT have the lineout and scrum skills of Sharpe?? Agreed, sharpe doesn’t break the line but he is the best lineout jumper, caller and (lineout) leader that australia has. I’m also fairly sure he is working really well with horwill in the scrum. Admittedly, things could change come France and Tri-Nations time – we’ll just have to wait and see I guess.
Peter Marks said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:23pm | Report comment
As a Kiwi I went into Saturday’s text against the French expecting the All Blacks to lose. And so it proved, for all the obvious reasons: lack of cohesion, especially under pressure, an inexperienced loose forward trio (something the French quickly and profitably exploited for their first try), and concerns about Stephen Donald’s decision-making. What I wasn’t expecting was the way the French out-muscled the All Blacks in the opening 30 minutes, including (but not exclusively) at the breakdown. Just as importantly, the French defense was impregnable and aggressive for much (but not all) of the game. The team deserved its win.
Watching the Wallaby-Italy game later, the obvious difference was the real absence of pressure exerted by the Italians on the locals. Italy’s defence was naive and porous throughout, as the ridiculously easy first try proved. Where the All Blacks were shut out time and again by a huge, charging forward pack and an equally malevolent backline, keen to hurt its opponent (and succeeding) the Italian forwards rarely got forward momentum for sustained periods and the backs seemed happy to wait for the Wallabies to run at them. That proved suicidal, and gave the Wallabies the confidence to run freely without an real fear of repercussions if they needed to stop and rethink in mid-movement. This is not to deny that the Wallabies showed good attacking flair at times, but they were rarely under pressure from an opposition barely worthy of that name. That meant that Luke Burgess, surely too slow at this level, was able to get away with a clumsy and laboured display; a quality opposition halfback (see the South African version, for a start) would have disrupted the Wallabies at the base of the scrums and mauls. You play what’s in front of you, as Deans says; it’s easier, of course, when what’s in front of you has lost its last 8 games, and demonstrates in the 9th why that has been the case.
The Wallabies is a team on the rise, but how high they’ll rise we can’t yet know.
Bob McGregor said | June 15th 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
Great article Spiro – agree with all points made.
This Wallaby side continues to show improvement each Test and should be cherry ripe come Tri Nations/Bledisloe matches. When injured players are fit again, the talent pool for Test selection will almost run to 30 players. With Robbie Deans obviously bringing out the best in the team, I have high expectations for the team over the next few years. Rugby in OZ appears not only in safe hands but on the ascendency again. Long may it last.
O’Conner’s sense of anticipation continues to impress me – and in one so young! Readers will remember my adulation for Reg Gasnier for always being in the right place at the right time to continue a break or score the try. O’Conner reminds me of him. Let’s be thankful Robbie is there to guide him as his enormous talent blossoms.
The starting 15 were more than adequate and I will not be overtly critical of any of them. It was only when the substitutes arrived did some structure diminish. Adam A C bombed a certain try with 2 support players next to him. It should have been 6 tries and against spoiling solid defence this was a good result. The Italian try was a good one but the defence on the short side should have moved towards the ball carrier instead of waiting for him to get to them. Bet they don’t make that mistake again.
Kicking in general play was very good and resulted in great field position. Giteau’s goal kicking could be better – appears to sometimes ‘fall off’ the ball on impact. Has to concentrate more on his follow through? Burkey – he needs you!
Have to point out what a great swivelling reverse pass Mortlock gave as acting scrum half to start the backline move that resulted in O’Conner’s second try. I hope Burgess noted how fast and effective it was – he needs to “pick and give” in the one movement as a matter of urgency otherwise the backline could suffer. Will Genia will be in the mix once fit again. I believe he has the fastest and most accurate pass of all our scrum halves and it was a tragedy he sufffered such a season ending injury. We are indeed fortunate to have a plethora of scrum halves at this time. Indeed it could be said of most positions at the moment except fit second rows, but young ones coming through like Kimlin have great potential.
Haven’t felt better of our chances for some time.
bulldog said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
Spiro – I think you are the first and only rugby commentator / journo to give some credit to John Mitchell for O’Connor’s development. To date I have been reading articles about how much Robbie Deans has done for his game with no mention on the work put in my Mitchell and the Force. I think Deans is great and surely has contributed – but I think some credit was due to others…
Terry – get off Sharpe’s back and read Virgil’s comments. You pick individuals in a team that compliments the other parts of the team and Sharpe does that.
And I am sorry if I disagree with others – but Burgess is a liability at this stage. No doubting his speed and defence but his service is deplorable.
Sam Taulelei said | June 15th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
Peter Marks where have you been hiding?
Great comment and analysis as usual. While this is off topic I actually expected the All Blacks to win the first test and get rolled in the second. My misguided view based upon the excitement and desire for the team to prove their detractors wrong would offset the lack of combination and experience within the team. But under the concerted pressure at rucks and mauls the lack of cohesiveness stuck out like a sore thumb.
Peter K said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:08pm | Report comment
I am NOT a supporter of Sharpe however the stats show that Sharpe WAS very hardworking the last game.
He did work hard but it had little impact. He made a lot of runs BUT not 1 line break, his average metres was poor. He made a lot of tackles as well.
PLAYER STATS
Australia Pos Tack Off load Kicks Try Assist Line Brk Ruck Maul Mtrs Runs Turn Over Missed Tack
Benn Robinson LHP 8 0 0 0 0 6 11m 6 0 2
Stephen Moore HOOK 9 0 0 0 1 4 34m 4 0 0
Alastair Baxter THP 5 1 0 0 0 4 10m 5 0 1
James Horwill LCK1 9 1 0 0 0 1 11m 2 0 0
Nathan Sharpe LCK2 8 0 0 0 0 12 49m 12 2 0
Dean Mumm BSFL 2 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 4
George Smith OSFL 10 2 0 0 0 7 33m 9 3 0
Richard Brown NUM8 7 1 0 0 0 3 9m 4 0 0
Luke Burgess HB 5 2 1 0 1 6 34m 7 2 4
Matt Giteau FIV8 5 1 15 1 0 2 37m 4 0 5
Drew Mitchell LWNG 2 0 3 0 0 3 15m 3 1 1
Berrick Barnes ICEN 3 3 6 0 1 2 54m 4 0 0
Stirling Mortlock OCEN 1 0 1 0 2 3 48m 4 1 0
Lachlan Turner RWNG 1 0 2 1 1 2 51m 5 2 0
James O’Connor FBCK 3 0 8 0 1 2 43m 5 1 1
Tatafu Polota-Nau RHKR 2 0 0 0 0 0 8m 1 2 1
Ben Alexander RPRP 2 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 0
Peter Kimlin RLCK 4 0 0 0 0 1 7m 1 0 2
David Pocock RFL 5 0 0 0 0 1 0m 1 0 0
Josh Valentine RHB 0 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 0
Quade Cooper RBCK 0 0 0 0 0 0 0m 0 0 0
Adam Ashley-Cooper RES1 1 1 0 0 0 3 47m 4
Justin said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:36pm | Report comment
Thanks for the stats Peter.
Some of them are pretty damning arent they? Horwill, Brown and Mumm are well down on what they should be. Mumms are deadset laughable.
Sharpe may not have averaged much per run but he was going in tight up against the big defence in close. Only Moore made a LB in the forwards showed we lacked other ball runners. Need Rocky back ASAP.
What the fark was Mumm doing out there? They must be a record for worst stats ever from a 6! And I am surprised he had that many involvements he was invisible.
Peter K said | June 15th 2009 @ 9:47pm | Report comment
Justin we also need Palu back ASAP. Otherwise Elsom will be heavily marked as the ONLY go to forward to run the ball.
Palu makes very effective runs and big hit tackles.
I agree re Mumm, he was invisible. I still prefer Kimlin over Sharpe. Sharpe still has a habit of seagulling out wide and stuffs up the flow of the backline, but he did work harder last game than I remember from him for a long time.
Knives Out said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:06pm | Report comment
It must be a coincidence that following England’s 6N victory over England Mr. Zavos labelled England as negative plodders – despite the fact that England scored 5 tries against the Azzurri – and yet an Australian team that scores 5 tries against the most depleted Italian team in nearly a decade is apparently progressing into a great team. I don’t for one minute believe that Mr. Zavos perpetuates antiquated cliche. It simply must be a coincidence.
My perception of the test is that had an 18 year old not scored a hat trick then the majority of Australian fans might be wondering what on earth is going on with their team, and how the Wallabies did not manage more against perhaps the worst attacking and defending side I have seen in years.
The Wallabies defence against the rolling maul was excellent, however the scrum was subsiding badly from the 50th minute onwards. I think it’s admirable that the kickers persisted in peppering the corners. That was intelligent rugby, but I wonder if a NH team had been so lacking in dazzle would they be considered in terms different to the Wallabies?
Justin said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:19pm | Report comment
KO – the kicking is quite simply something they must practice in match conditions for the upcoming French test and the 3N. The Aussies are far from the finished product but seem to be moving in the right direction.
mother teresa said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:21pm | Report comment
KO ;yes you make a fair assessment
Knives Out said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:27pm | Report comment
Justin, I think the kicking was worthwhile. What’s the point in taking on an unstable defence when the pack and kickers had something to work on. It was disciplined. With regards to the progress the Wallabies have made I think it’s hard to gauge. The Italian side was bad. Very, very bad. As were the Baa Baas. The real barometer will be the 3N. I’m quite looking forward to it now.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 10:55pm | Report comment
James B – Although Carter hasn’t retired it will be interesting to see how the achilles injury has affected him. Speed, manoeuvrability and confidence all come to mind. An achilles injury is a serious, and some time career altering injury. I am also not sure how many more injuries Richie can sustain before he is packed off to Japan for retirement.
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:01pm | Report comment
Chuck – I don’t concur with your assessment of Burgess. I have just watched the match for a second time and he looked unsettled in the tight forward interchanges. His passing is also not so effective. I watched Genia this year several times and the guy looks tremendous when he runs. He was man of the match against the Brumbies (and the Reds got flogged). By next year Luke will be the back up to Burgess. (you read it here first).
Sorry guys I am picking off comments as I catch up on Spiros article. I hope I have something more constructive to add later (probably not).
Spencer said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:25pm | Report comment
Peter K – Thanks for the stats. I fully DISagree with you assessment of Sharpe. He set many solid platforms by taking it to the line and setting back fast ball (which unfortunately Like Burgess pondered over). Overall Sharpe’s tackles and hit-ups are outstanding. If I recall you were calling for Mumm last week. As we can now see he was left in the bicycle shed.
Kimlin is untested and Robbie is ( I speculate) trying to balance youth with experience. You couldn’t find a better balance than Sharpe and Jimmy Horwill. Kimilin will get his chances off the bench for a while. In fact he may rotate with Horwill. Sharpe is the line-out controller.
As for Palu: too lazy. Whilst he can break the line he is too lazy in general play. Brown hasn’t impressed yet, however watch out for a big game this weekend. He will have found the pace at international level and come out booming. Horwill also can break the line and has the knack of being in the right place at the right time.
Peter K said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:45pm | Report comment
Spencer – How can you say Palu is too lazy? Do you know his stats? Do you know he is at the top in tackles and runs and metres gained out of the forwards in test matches?
Brown has been totally ineffective against opposition weaker than S14, the pace is below S14.
Yes I wanted Mumm because Sharpe is non effective, I would rather it get it wrong trying to improve the team than accept mediocrity.
Sharpe goes straight down when he hits the line and places the ball back, yes, but so what. He hardly ever breaks tackles or hits them hard. How can these hit ups be outstanding? They are soft. He also hardly ever offloads the ball.His tackles also are just adequate, he does not hit them hard. However he did have a high work rate last game.
Virgil said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:46pm | Report comment
I like the balance of horwill and sharpe at the moment too. And when you have such a strong exponent of the lineout why replace him? Fundamentally he works hard, does the hard yards up the middle, wins lineouts, is strong and big in the scrum, doesn’t miss tackles and best of all for this fairly young team he is passionate and experienced. Case closed I reckon.
I hope Pocock, Cooper and Valentine get a bit more game time this week.
Peter K said | June 15th 2009 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
How on earth can you say he is strong in the scrum?
When we were crap and pushed backwards it was normally on his side.
Vickermann was far more effective as is Horwill. The props and hooker have a lot more to do with the scrum.
Also Sharpe does not work hard consistently. I have had stats where he did hardly anything but seagull. Remember he was dropped and saved when Vickerman left for O/S.
Also he does not do the hard yards up the middle. Look at the game again the runs through the heavy traffic around the ruck were by the frontrow and in other games Horwill. Sharpe was out wider running into backs in channel 3, no not hard yards up the middle.
Yes he is good in the lineout.
We need to blood or find a better player for the world cup. At Sharpes age he is just getting poorer and slower year by year.
Blinky Bill of Bellingen said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
Interesting reading the different views about Nathan Sharp.
When Sharpey was dropped I just accepted that age had caught up with him, his day had finally arrived & their were better players coming through. Let’s face it, he looked tired. There was absolutely no leg drive & his presence seagulling out on the backline I thought was more about catching his breath than busting the defensive line. He’s a bit too slow for that & besides back then anyways he was constantly dropping the pill.
When he was back in following Vicks departure I figured it was because of his lineout ability & leadership. That’s it.
Against the Baa Baas & Italy I’ve not noticed him seagulling or dropping the ball. So that’s good. BUT……..where I’m expecting (or should that be hoping) him to really get up a head of steam, deliver punishing runs and bust a few tackles, he seems content to just look for the turf. Perhaps he thinks he’s really fast & is concerned at getting too far ahead of his support?
Not sure what gives but you’d have to think that a bloke that size could make more meters. Wouldn’t you? Annnnnd an occassional off load to keep the opposition on their toes would make a nice change. As it is all the opp has to do is show up and he starts to lower like a crane on a building site.
Hey what do I know?
OldManEmu said | June 16th 2009 @ 9:39am | Report comment
Love the chatter regarding Sharpey – Bulldog, Virgil, Reds Fan, Worlds Biggest – all get a gold star and meat pie for lunch. The rest of you must write out 100 lines “Nathan Sharpe is not the devil.”
I have decided once and for all to put this mindless debate regarding the abilities of Nathan Sharpe to rest by writing the authoritative tome which will be titled something like “Mary McKillop or Nathan Sharpe – who will be touched by the hand of God first.”
I can almost hear the keyboards of the Sharpie haters bashing away in anticipation. Watch this space.
stu said | June 16th 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
I’ve cringed at Shgarpe for a long while, but in fairness old googly has been playing well for the last 12 or so months and deserves his spot.
Even since he made it back into the team he has markedly been more involved and his error rate feel a lot lower than it used to be. I’d love to see him bust the first tackle but he usually doesn’t.
Just wanted to say that Barnes is one of the best players we have, he’s intelligent, great hands & feet, he could probably tackle a steamroller, and is a fantatic foil for giteau.
reds fan said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:28pm | Report comment
Stu. I agree with your comment on Barnes. My name gives away my bias, so I try to refrain from bringing him up too often to avoid appearing too parochial. But the bloke seriously gets about 2% of the air time and newspaper pundantry that the rest of the backline gets. And the great thing about him, is that he is happy with that. He was a bit wonky when he first came back from league but he is now really showing his class.
He is the reason why I think O’connor should get his education from 15. Both 12 and 15 are acknowledged as good positions for future 10’s to learn from. If you pushed O’connor up to 12, we’d be back searching for a decent 15 again. I think any time we can have O’connor, Barnes and Gits on the field is happy days! The one thing we do need to acknowledge though, is that these boys, whilst brave tacklers, are not massive. So when we select 11, 13 and 14 we need to make sure we are getting some boofheads. Mortlock is superb for this. Digby would also be great (thats if he doesn’t flee for the filthy lucre.)
reds fan said | June 16th 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
Gee he’s mixing it up with the changes!
Barnes at 10, Quade at 12, Cross 13, Hynes 11. Kimlin 6, Mumm 5, Pek 1, TPN running on. Pocock 7, Smith captain from 8.
Who Needs Melon said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
reds fan,
You’re not wrong.
I hope Cooper goes well but, if he doesn’t, I’d like to see he and O’Connor swap. Or AAC on at fullback and JOC to 12.
C’mon The Roar! Post the article so we can comment on it!
Greg Russell said | June 16th 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
“Polota-Nau played number 8 for some years and in time this might be his Test position.”
I wondered whether this was just Spiro’s wildcard comment to stimulate reaction, but all I can find is Worlds Biggest writing
“I have mentioned previously on the Roar that TPN should be looked at as a backrower in particular No 8. He played Australian Schoolboys at Number 8. Imagine TPN, Smith and Elsom backrow.”
He would have to undergo a major and very difficult change in body shape to play BR. Further, my impression is that BR-FR traffic is all one-way, e.g. Richard Harry and Steve Thompson both went from BR to FR. Similarly, a good idea often aired at The Roar (but too late to act on) is that Phil Waugh should change to hooker. Does anyone know of any reverse traffic at the top level?
Moore is the most accurate thrower in world rugby, so he’s a tough standard to judge TPN on when the latter enters the fray.
If anything play TPN as a lineout lifter and see if one of the props can throw the ball in.
Brett McKay said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:03pm | Report comment
So Greg, where would TPN-to-8 rate on the scale of suggested positional changes, if Mortlock-to-15 is Brilliant (if I do say so myself) and Waugh-to-2 is Ridiculous?!?!
Greg Russell said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
My general comment on Saturday night will indirectly be in support of reds fan on Barnes.
In any sport one should play to one’s strengths. What Australia’s two matches so far have confirmed is that Australia’s biggest positive point of difference with all other teams in world rugby will be the Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor axis, which has the potential to be in rugby what Thurston (approximately Giteau), Lockyer (Barnes) and Slater (O’Connor) are in rugby league. (If one really wanted to push this analogy to the limit, one could assign George Smith the role of his namesake Cameron in league.)
Those who read my comments know that I don’t try to hide my ignorance of NH rugby, so I will not attempt to pass judgement on the number of players of the quality and type of Giteau, Barnes and O’Connor in the NH (I very much doubt there are many). However I do watch a lot of SH rugby, and when one stops to think about it, there are very few players of the quality and type of these Australian “little men” (to borrow a rugby league term) at the top level in NZ and SAf. I mean, take out Dan Carter, and what else is there? Don’t get me wrong, players like Ma’a Nonu, Morne Steyn, Stephen Donald, Luke McAlister, Wynand Oliver and so on all have their strengths (in some cases considerable, e.g. Nonu, in other cases exaggerated, in my opinion). But the point is that none of these players shine in the way that Giteau, Barnes and O’Connor do.
It seems logical that Australia should produce rugby players who are like rugby league playmakers, just as it is logical that NZ and SAf do not (remembering here that NZ’s strength in league has rarely been in positions 1,6 and 9). I am convinced that if the present Wallabies are to become a great team, then Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor will be the point of difference that makes them so. I think Deans knows this too, as reflected in his fast-tracking of O’Connor.
None of this is to put down players like G Smith, S Moore, S Mortlock, R Elsom, Horwill, and so on. They are all excellent players. But the point is that one finds similarly excellent players in other countries (McCaw, Burger, Botha, etc.). If I look around, what I do not see is many other countries with any players of the particular type of excellence of Giteau, Barnes and O’Connor, let alone three such players in one place.
One also notes how these three complement each other, just as do Thurston, Lockyer and Slater.
(I will now sit back and watch for this point to be misinterpreted … I am not saying that Australia’s “little men” will definitely make them no. 1, I am not saying that South Africa and NZ do not have some areas of strength over Australia, and so on.)
Greg Russell said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:25pm | Report comment
Brett, I enjoy any ideas like Mortlock to 15, TPN to 8, Waugh to 2, Giteau to wing (from Spiro) that make one stop and think. The point is to recognize these ideas as experimental, and not be dogmatically devoted to them.
Notice that with Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor I am not talking about anything experimental. Just ask the Italians. As Knives Out has pointed out, take these three away and ” then the majority of Australian fans might be wondering what on earth is going on with their team.”
Actually, this assessment by KO is a little harsh. On Saturday night Italy basically played the football equivalent of putting 11 men behind the ball. Australia has never been a team like NZ that can murder teams with such a defensive mindset. The BaaBaas were much more open, and I thought the Wallabies did a very reasonable job of putting points on them.
Brett McKay said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:32pm | Report comment
Completely agree Greg, and it will be interesting to see how the Barnes-Cooper-O’Connor combo goes this weekend (Aussie Rob’s made 11 positional and personnel changes, if you haven’t see it yet). I made the comment in yesterday that I was really impressed with the way the backs retreatd into a zone-style defence on Sat night as they got ready for the Italians to return kicks. No doubt – as has been written everywhere – this is being done to get ready for the counter-attacking waves of New Zealand and Bryan Habana..
Acer said | June 16th 2009 @ 2:49pm | Report comment
O’Conner is already a star and seems to be taking everything in his stride. The new poster boy of Australian rugby.
Have to agree with some don’t start getting to excited we still haven’t played the Springboks / French or New Zealand yet. The real test will come then when up against world class players. South Africa will be primed for battle after the Lions series and all going well New Zealand will be a totally different beast. Much much better than what they are now. As for the French lets just hope they don’t rest on their Laurels and be content with a win over a makeshift NZ.
ohtani's jacket, said | June 16th 2009 @ 4:41pm | Report comment
What is O’Conner? The Wallabies’ mascot?
I suddenly have this burning desire to see the Wallabies get smashed.
Knives Out said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:41pm | Report comment
To be fair, Mr. Russell, I did actually state that I was impressed with the patience of the Wallabies and the persistent kicking to touch. It was intelligent rugby. But, and this is a big but, that Italian team was perhaps the worst and most disinterested test team I have ever seen. The holes in the defence were huge and they had no attacking clout whatsoever. O’Connor’s performance has overshadowed an inability to build a big score. It’s not realistic for Australian fans to consistently perpetuate the theme that Deans is a genius after games like this. Australia may well go on to do very well this season, but that first performance was very poor. However, if you’re suggesting that Australia struggled with the Italian gameplan then one has to wonder how they’ll cope with the Springbok rush system.
Regarding shifts from the front to back row, I have strained my mind and can’t think of any. Ross Ford, John Hayes, William Servat, Andrew Sheridan, TPN, Steve Thompson have all made the shift from 2nd/back row to test level front row. Incidentally, Steve Thompson did take a quick sabbatical as a flanker a few seasons ago, and Phil Greening occasionally played on the flank. In fact, there are two young England ‘A’ (I refuse to use the name ‘English Saxons’) hookers have played a lot of back row for their clubs: Neil Briggs at Sale Sharks, and Rob Webber at London Wasps. Beyond that I think it would be unworkable at test level.
Spencer said | June 16th 2009 @ 8:57pm | Report comment
OJ – I would rather have JoC as a mascot than look at that entirely miserable sour face that is Graham Henry. There is an old proverb that goes” Until the age of 40 you have the face of your genes. After 40 you have the face of your character. What must Graham Henrys character be like?
I think it is great that JoC is excited, and gets the fans excited. That is one of the great things about sport: it brings enjoyment.
Cheer up OJ, your Mr Jockey will be back in his strap soon!
ohtani's jacket, said | June 17th 2009 @ 11:09am | Report comment
I dunno about Henry. He got pretty amorous with Mils last week — http://www.samoaobserver.ws/images/stories/Sport2/0000000_Graham-Henry.gif
Greg Russell said | June 17th 2009 @ 1:03pm | Report comment
Knives: we are not in any fundamental disagreement. Notice that I quoted you favorably in the first instance, i.e., I was drawing the attention of readers to something you had said that most people were missing. I agree that Deans has not yet done anything of genius as Wallabies coach, however there is no doubt that he is an improvement on coaching for most of the last decade. He won in South Africa last year against a much more talented Bok team than those of previous years that Australia had failed to beat – a very notable achievement. The potential of Giteau-Barnes-O’Connor gives Deans a chance to do something of genius.
If we both keep trying I’m sure one of us will think of someone who has changed from FR to BR!