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July 2nd 2009 @ 12:45am
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Tuqiri to fight ARU sacking
Lote Tuqiri has engaged lawyers and will launch immediate legal action against the Australian Rugby Union following the shock termination of his lucrative contract.
Tuqiri’s agent Les Ross confirmed the former Wallabies winger would fight his sacking, which was announced late on Wednesday by an ARU email.
“All I can tell you is that Lote disputes that [...]
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The Answer said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:23am | Report comment
yet another smoke screen. I’ll be expecting the rugby union media to be all over this, surely the ARU can’t just shut up shop.
The Bulldogs case was subject to legal proceedings and that didn’t stop the press from being camped out in Belmore.
Time to get out from behind the desk boys and give us the truth!
Bailey said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:57am | Report comment
WOAH i knew they were doing an investigation and were ready to sack someone from the waratahs but…damn! Well i hope the ARU have a really good reason for doing this its a shame to lose someone like Tuqiri but whatever he did must of been pretty bad (?).
Just wondering also whether Deans had any idea about this? Im sure he commented not long ago about Tuqiri being an important part to his wallabies squad, wonder what he thinks of all of this fiasco. Knowing how he operates this is probably the last thing he would want going into the tri-nations!
Sharminator said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:59am | Report comment
Exactly. I understand that there may be disclosure issues if there are legal proceedings .. but come on .. we´ve seen rugby union (and league and AFL) try and cover up things for too long.
As the Basteraud incident showed last week … the truth usually always come out, no matter how many lies people tell.
It would be better for the ARU to come clean now and tell everyone why the contract was ripped up, or at least give some details. Obviously the media are going to chase the story until they have answers so there is no point staying quiet.
Sharminator said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:01am | Report comment
Im sure the lack of explanation is also very disquietening for the players. Come out, tell the truth and get it over with. Imagine if in the lead up to a test against the All Blacks all the focus is on a wrangle in the courts between LT and the ARU. Its exactly what rugby dosnt need.
By coming clean now rugby could also show that it is different to the AFL and league attempts at coverups.
Had Enough of Oz Sport said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:32am | Report comment
Another situation handled well by the ARU. Backward thinking of the highest order as the game and the players continue to treat all around them like idiots.
The Answer said | July 2nd 2009 @ 6:03am | Report comment
At the moment that are showing that they lead the field in cover ups.
matt said | July 2nd 2009 @ 6:28am | Report comment
Who cares. Rugby has just lost one of the most feared sideways runners in the modern game!
Let’s see….. would that be 5 new super players the ARU could develop, or perhaps 35 club level ones.
He was a decent talent once, but his star was on the wane, I imagine the ARU took a get of jail free card on his contract by ‘finding’ a reason to sack him.
Vincent said | July 2nd 2009 @ 6:55am | Report comment
it could be looked at in a number of ways…either the ARU is so confident about its stance (and Lotes actions) that they can afford to sack him as opposed to fining him or suspending him OR the breach is something so serious it warrants sacking (rumour has it that the victorian police are involved) . The ARU for sure would not have made this decision lightly without legal advice considering the legal ramifications if they got it wrong. As David Campese wrote in his article, this is not something the ARU and rugby union fans need at the moment.
El Capitan said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:09am | Report comment
I’d say its the coffers running dry, and they saw a get out clause in the contact to end his massive pay.
Will all come out in the wash in the end.
Crosscoder said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:13am | Report comment
The ARU showing their true colours.They waited conveniently(don’t harm ticket sales)until after the French test to slap a couple of Wallabies on the wrist ,for a minor food fight,(although the childishness required extra cleaning at a Canberra hotel).The code dragged its heels over a Brumbies incident in Sth Africa a few years ago.
They now use the legal excuse for not disclosing the reason for Lote’s sacking.Yet you can go to any media outlet ,and get the details of acts that resulted in sackings/bannings on RL/AFL/NBL/A League players over the years.Any discretion minor or major.Ask Seymour given the see you later.Some involved legal action.
No phone cameras around for Lote.
Greg Growden in the Herald a couple of years ago ,indicated much was swept under the carpet by ru.How about a little openness for the public fellas.As someone before stated get it out .The quicker that is done fans can get on with life.It starting to look like fort fumble in action again.Has the ARU ever heard of the word “allegation”,to avoid legal problems.
katzilla said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
I wouldn’t be surprised if Deans knew about this investigation long before the first test match of the year.
3 Test matches without any game time is a long time for someone who is supposedly ‘In the Mix’.
Quite clearly an attempt to fix the previous mistake of giving Lote a second contract in the first place.
If they will get away with it remains to be seen, more then likely he’ll be given an undisclosed payout (probably the remainder of his contract) and he’ll go away and the ARU will look like they’ve done the right thing by the majority of fans who disagreed with his contract in the first place.
The Mole said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:55am | Report comment
Are they going to sack Giteau for leading the young guys astray with the most recent (very serious) rumours?
Mike said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:00am | Report comment
Just to clarify, these are not criminal proceedings and there is no legal constraint on public comment. On the other hand, the ARU might end up paying damages out of this, and they would be well advised to avoid saying anything that might increase those damages (or even lead to a defamation suit).
Tuqiri will also be advised by his lawyers to keep public comment to a minimum. There is little clarity in this area of the law, actually there never was, but the major statutory changes brought in by the Howard Government (and the rather more cosmetic changes by the Rudd Government) mean that no industrial lawyer can safely predict the outcome of such a case. The lawyers will want to control every bit of information that might go before a judge.
I’m intrigued by the assumption that the ARU must have had good grounds for their action – in the real world, parties and their lawyers get it wrong all the time. Most cases are settled before they get to court, but for those that get to court, there are many litigants who were very very confident before the case, and very very sorry afterwards. Litigation in the end comes down to a human being sitting behind a bench making a decision, and humans are unpredictable.
If he gets up on breach of contract, Tuqiri’s case on damages will be assisted by recent comments from Robbie Deans indicating that he was good enough for Wallabies selection. There will then be an argument as to sponsorship deals that he could have obtained, i.e. the damages won’t be limited to just the balance of his contract. Then there are legal costs – the general rule is that the loser pays most of the winner’s legal costs, as well as his own.
Of course, the legal costs can go against Tuqiri as well, so there is an incentive for both sides to settle. But the sticking point is likely to be reinstatement – the ARU will prefer to give Tuqiri some money to go away, but he may not accept that.
And for those thinking about how the ARU can use the balance of Tuqiri’s contract for other purposes – forget it! They will pay it all in payment of their own legal costs, and to Tuqiri in settlement (Tuqiri will want enough to cover his own legals plus something for himself). If the matter does not settle, the overall cost to the ARU is likely to be a lot more.
Bay35Pablo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:18am | Report comment
The De-Flowering of the ARU by JON is almost complete. I am sure when he came in he was a like a 2nd wife looking to get rid of anything the first wife had left behind. ARC, we’ll get rid of that! Lote’s $1m contract would have been on that list too. My bet is he’s been waiting for the smallest stuff up to free up $1m a year. Who needs Lote with all these other cheaper young pups?
Lote will go and earn huge coin in Europe or Japan, who rate him higher than we feckless lot do. If he goes back to league he needs his head read. it won’t be for the cash, and it won’t be to play internationals!
Mike, you sound like you may be in the law. All I can say is Lote won’t get his full contract as a pay out, and even the ARU would be hard pressed spending the difference in costs. The fact Lote will probably earn more coin in Europe when he goes there will reduce the quantum of any damages I’d say …
I agree with the comments the ARU should just be up front about the reason. In the absence of information gossip flourishes, which just makes things worse. If the reason is valid, what’s the problem with stating it? These blokes keep inventing new ways to stuff up.
Brett McKay said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:18am | Report comment
This could become very big, no doubt, and if there’s such a thing as good timing in something like this, then at least the Wallabies aren’t playing for a few weeks yet. Though of course they could weel becomes distracted if this goes on.
Very dangerous to make assumptions of course, but you’d have to think the ARU exhausted all avenues of alternative before making a decision like this. Likewise, It will be interesting to see how Tuqiri’s legal team fight it..
True Tah said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:28am | Report comment
Pablo good point, if Lote goes and signs a multi-million contract with a French club, then he can hardly claim he was out of pocket for being sacked by the ARU, having said that, in Europe they tend to prize forwards more than backs, so maybe Japan is more his scene?
Temba said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:31am | Report comment
Let the NRL have him, he has not beaten a man on the outside for years… Unions needs agile fast wingers, not 100KG plodders. Plus booze heads fit better in that crowd anyways. Haven’t been a fan of LT for a while, not since everyone figured out his step. He got the big bucks and stopped re-inventing himself…
Jolly Jupes said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:34am | Report comment
Cross coder – your point about the ARU holding off is very interesting as the announcement yesterday was “timed” to limit PR damage but it has also limited his options for future employment as the windows for league and the French Rugby squads closed on Tuesday. The fact that the grounds for dismissal are unclear would also make a future employer wary so that is limiting as well – this may feature in terms of a damages claim.
I also note that a noted former journalist handles the media these days for the ARU. I am surprised that he of all people would allow so many “no further comment” style press releases. The announcement was also made last night at 6.30pm which would have pissed the media channels as it misses the news and the next days papers (politicians use the 5.30 pm Friday slot for the same reason) – This is obviously a strategy but non explanation only invites the media to chase and the speculation and bad will becomes the damaging element to the game. People who say give the media nothing, ignore the fact that the media is free advertising – It gets used by organisations like the ARU to promote the game but you need to front up in the bad times as well
fox said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Mike has it pretty much spot on regarding the ARU and Lote being well advised not to make public comment at least prior to negotiations are settled or given up to the courts to adjudicate, but WE can speculate here so let’s get on with the job.
What I am hearing from relatively good sources:
1. John O’Neill has long wanted Lote off the books. His predecessor spent a lot of cash on Lote to retain him from the jaws of the dreaded NRL. O’Neill doesn’t think he’s worth the money, or like his attitude. Even though he was skating on thin ice Lote hasn’t been on his best behaviour. He was relegated to club rugby. This gave him a sense of security that he would not be treated to certain regular undertakings that are part and parcel of being a professional sportsperson. Apparently he was. He may well be calling an old Waratahs and ex-NRL friend as I write this for empathy.
2. Deans dropped Lote for legitimate reasons. They were purely on field related and nothing to do with any ARU investigation or any off field incident. At a recent lunch Robbie was sincere in certain conversations around the table that Lote would be back. Lote had become an individual and behaved as such on the field as well as off. Deans like his wingers on the wings. Lote likes to “roam” and look for the ball. In other words, Lote plays for Lote. Deans wanted Lote to play for the team. He always talks about unity. Deans wanted to fashion him into someone who played a role for the good of the team.
Like I said this IS all purely speculation at this stage and nothing’s verified.
I’m saddened to lose LT from the game, but it does create ample space for the ARU to retain other talent – for starters, maybe we can now give Ioane the money he deserves and secure his services from the jaws of the Japanese?
WLN said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
Good riddance! Why are you hating on the ARU? Real rugby fans should spit on him in the street for taking diverting ARU money to pay lawyers instead of letting it be put to better use. That’s if it wasnt such a waste of spit. Dont be surprised when you find out Deans is in on this. He set a clever trap early in his appointment by giving up his business class seat for Turkey and the sucker took it. Right then Deans knew this was a guy who could never be in a merry band of brothers. You’d hope his sacking would result in the ego finally landing but unfortunately there’ll be a stupid club somewhere willing to pay to cushion the blow. Now he’s just chasing whatever coin he can wangle off the ARU so that his house in Birchgrove is safe before he relocates somewhere else in the world. And the further away from here the better. When a player has more lawyers than the amount of tries he’s scored in a season (and that’s counting club rugby) that oughta tell ya something…
The Link said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
More spin and media management by the ARU. No coincidence that the Wallabies are not on this weekend. Given a similar situation in AFL and NRL we’d know by now why the contract is no longer.
Sin-ick said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:59am | Report comment
Why is everyone so eager to learn the truth about all these incedents that take place?
As a father of a young boy who loves rugby, I think it’s better keeping the focus on the game itself.
I’d much rather tell my son that Lote simply isn’t playing anymore, rather than try and explain that that a player he loves when out and got drunk and did whatever…..
Let’s just keep the focus on the field. Who cares what he did. He got sacked. People get sacked from their jobs every day.
Comments on here are saying “tell the rugby public so we can get on with our lives”
I ask, why do you NEED to know?? These must be same people who buy New Idea.
Rah Rah Rasputin said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Fox,
If Lote had failed an undertaking, wouldn’t that give the ARU sufficient grounds to terminate his contract? Why then are the ARU being so secretative?
Nothing has been said by the public or any other third party, so it will be interesting to see what comes out in the wash.
Hopefully, Danny Weidler is on the case!!!
Justin said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:07am | Report comment
It certainly looks as though it is just one too many stuff ups. I would be surprised if it is a serious offense as no-one seems to have any mail on what happened which is very unusual.
I dont have any sympathy for blokes who continually stuff up. He was overpaid and under performed in the last 2 years. He can go and make plenty in Europe or Japan.
Strange theme on here as most on the Roar were happy to see him dropped from the team and now there is a big anti-ARU sentiment. Quite bizarre…I am pretty happy about it as long as it doesnt cost the game anymore. Huge salary saving which can be used better in the future.
Virgil said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Definite trust issues here. By this act, the ARU is signalling to all the current Wallabies that the contracts they sign are only legitimate for as long as they retain form (or merely favour with the CEO). No club should treat its players like this, no matter how bad his form has turned. A contract is a contract.
I just hope whatever tuqiri has done actually warrants ripping his contract up. If not, then I reckon we will see an ‘us and them’ culture quickly develop and players beginning to question the veracity of the contract placed in front of them to sign.
Spiro Zavos said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:13am | Report comment
My understanding of the ’savings’ made when high profile rugby union players leave is that this merely releases money for other players. The Rugby Union Players Assocation negotiated for a quantum of the ARU’s television rights to go into a kitty for the players. This kitty is then divided among the players in varying degrees of largesse. So there are no savings as such by the ARU cancelling Lote Tuqiri’s contract.
A player like Lote Tuqiri, too, gets a number of lucrative sponsorships to top up his contract monies. So there is a huge financial impact on him. It is very doubtful whether he could get anything like the money he now makes in rugby union in rugby league. He has said, anyway, he doesn’t want to go back to rugby league. He could earn biy money, presumably, playing rugby in Europe, and possibly Japan.
It seems, or at least you would think so from the various comments (or lack of comments) made by the ARU, that Tuqiri is being sacked over a breach of contract. This breach can hardly involve the quality of his playing as he has been included in the Wallaby squad this season. It must have something to do with a breach of discipline. What this alleged breach might be is the matter than will be debated presumably when the case reaches the Industrial Court, if the dispute goes this far.
The difficulty for journalists in all of this is that, so far, all sides (the ARU, RUPA, NSW Waratahs, and Tuqiri) have refused to discuss what the allegations may be.This is different from many of the rugby league disputes, for instance, where police are involved and they give out details which then forces the contending parties to reveal what they want to reveal. Or disputes where at least one of the parties is prepared to put their case to the public.
Some bloggers on this thread have argued that there is a difference in the ARU’s approach on this to that of the NRL during similar disputes. The cases, in my view, are different. It would help our understanding of the matter, though, if one of the parties did take the public through the issues involved.
But what we have right now is all parties impeding, as it were, a public discussion of the rights and wrongs of the ARU’s actions. Until one of the parties opens up, or until the matter actually goes to the IR court, it is extremely difficult to discuss these rights and wrongs.
What do know is that Tuqiri has been on a ‘final warning’ and that he has been involved in a series of incidents during his rugby union career. And now he has been sacked.
cookie said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Sin-Ick
Gossip mate, is the reason why we want to know.
Nobody really cares but everyone loves a little gossip even if they deny it.
But gossip aside his form is not, wast not and never has been good enough.
Rolling Maul said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:16am | Report comment
Its about time they cut that contract and put the money into developing younger players. He has hardly set the world alight and apart from appearing on all the marketing material.. I don’t think he has contributed anything amazing to the game. A very very expensive bit of marketing by the ARU that has seen its day. Thanks Lote – you were good to watch at times but I think there is a lot more talent available.
Justin said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Spiro – good point re the players pie. I guess the money can go to someone who we want to keep in the game here…
Bill said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:23am | Report comment
We the rugby public as stakeholders of the game deserve an explanation from the ARU for the reasons behind the sacking of Tuqiri. The ARU is hiding behind legal jargon at the moment which gives me cause for concern that their reason for the termination is not a cast iron one.
Mike said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:24am | Report comment
There would seem little doubt that if Lote wins his case, Deans will keep him in the squad.
Brett McKay said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Justin, I completely agree. If a player has been told he is on his last warning – he was being dubbed “last chance Lote” for a while – and still can’t get the message that behaviour and perception of behaviour is king, then how much help does he deserve?? Brett Seymour is a classic example. Very public fall from grace, apparent remorse in all his public apologies, yet he buggered up TWICE more. Surely lines in the sand ae allowed to be drawn.
I too am staggered at the perceptions in this thread that the ARU are in the worng, despite most of us completely disagreeing with Tim Horan’s “bring back Lote” statements last week. Yes, it would make understanding the situation better, but what’s there to understand? Tuqiri must have buggered up again, otherwise the ARU wouldn’t have made the decision they have. I’d find it very difficult to understand if they made this desicion on a whim; they would have to know what a bollocking they’d get in the public and the press (and from the accountants) if they were found to be trigger-happy.
Mike said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:35am | Report comment
Brett,
Respectfully, while you may be right on some “moral” scale, at a legal level you are kidding yourself if you really think that “behaviour and perception of behaviour is king”.
EVen from the moral perspective, none of us know the facts – your statement: “Tuqiri must have buggered up again, otherwise the ARU wouldn’t have made the decision they have” is about the best example of a priori reasoning I have seen on the Roar. Those who assume (without knowing the facts) that the ARU’s actions are unjustified are equally in the wrong. We just don’t know.
But I can tell you that the court lists are full of major entities and intelligent individuals who made what became, in retrospect, very foolish and very expensive decisions. We will just have to see what eventuates.
Worlds Biggest said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:45am | Report comment
This is dissapointing as I think Lote is good for the game. I agree he is grossly overpaid but that’s not his fault, the bozos at the ARU signed off on the huge contract. Was that another Gary Flowers masterstroke ?. I do believe Dingo would have given him a run during the Tri Nations at some stage. Call me very cynical but JON had three agenda’s in mind I believe,
1. He doesn’t rate Lote and was mortified at his last contract bounty
2. Free up desperately needed funds to retain younger players
3. Drum up much needed PR over this 2 week break from top level Rugby. This is reaching but JON is a PR master remember.
Brett McKay said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:52am | Report comment
Mike, I couldn’t agree more, and deliberately stayed away from legal angles in making those statements, simple becuase my legal knowledge is very limited. I can only speak from the moral scale as a ticket-buying rugby supporter, and that’s why I say “Tuqiri must have buggered up..” We all know what monumental cock-ups the ARU is prone to at times, but I don’t think it’s too big a stretch to say that they wouldn’t have made this decision lightly. You’re quite right about making assumptions, and I completely agree with you, but in this case, you’d have to agree the ARU must be pretty confident they’re in the right. If they had any doubt, they’d impose an indefinent suspension pending inquiry. That’s all I’m getting at, if I’ve strayed to the point of making assumptions, and again, you’re absolutely right, we will have to see how it plays out..
Tarpo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
JON is making a statement on this matter at the press conference that announces the Tri Nations squad, lets see what he has to say then
Jameswm said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:06am | Report comment
Like you Brett, I am surprised by the criticism of the ARU here. Lote has stuffed up a few times and was told in no uncertain terms that he was on his last chance. He’s obviously done something (exactly what will come out in time) serious enough for them to terminate his contract. Good on them for having little tolerance for indiscretions. These guys get paid a shedload of money and are just asked to keep out of trouble.
It’s a shame for the thousands of kids who loved him, and Lote has let them down, as well as his family of course.
As much as we would all like to know what happened (me too), I don’t care if the saga is played out in court instead of the media.
Sportsmouth said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:16am | Report comment
Well it seems that JON has finally gotten his way, now if he could just work out a way to make sure that Berrick Barnes is only ever quoted as being a Reds player and not a former Bronco (leaguie) and Rocky Elsom is only ever mentioned as a Wallaby, dispite the fact he played league, lets not even mention Tahu and he could be done with the League plague that he started when he signed Wendell. Back to leather elbow patches and snooty attitudes, Fitzsimmons will be so happy!!
The ARU have the best spin doctors in the business, maybe except for the ones that fooled the nation about KRudd, but anyway it’ll be interesting to see what really is at the bottom of this, as for all his so called indiscretions, well I suggest you have a good hard read of them, a niteclub spat with Matt Henjak, well we saw his true colours when he broke his Force teammates jaw! I thought attending training camp was to help with fitness? Sam Norton-Knight was lucky the whole team didn’t chase him out of the state after one of the biggest brain snaps in waratahs history, and that’s saying something!!
LeftArmSpinner said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
Underestimate the ARU at your peril. this administration secured deans, stemmed the cash losses, found new revenue streams (Bledisloe in Asia), got a grand slam tour, got the inbound tours back to full strength, brought the baa baa’s to these shores, got Super rugby revitalised and most likely a 5th Aust team.
oh, and now we have the Wallabies back playing great rugby and developing into a potent force for the coming years. All in the space of 24 months!!!!
Are you telling me that Tuqiri and his agent know more about the situation than this ARU administration? Most unlikely!!!! Tuqiri couldnt even get his head around the basics of rugby and stay out of trouble so that he could play good rugby!!!!
Worlds Biggest said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
LAS – as a passionate Tahs supporter surely you appreciated Lote’s work in the main ?.
Even looser said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:11am | Report comment
What first struck me was the seemingly gutless way the ARU sacked him via an emai (if news reports are accurate that is).
What ever happened to the boss calling you into the office, telling you the facts and sending you on your bike? No balls!
And another thing. If the ARU were dumb as dog shit in signing him and then even dumber in resigning him, what makes us all think that the ARU is somehow wonderfully smart all of a sudden? This could drag out, be costly, be ugly and be a huge distraction from the main objective ie improving Rugby in Australia.
katzilla said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:25am | Report comment
Hmmm I was wondering where they were going to come up with the money to get Rocky Elsom back?
Chuck said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
No Lote????
As a Waratahs supporter i am shattered – who will crab across the field for us? who will turn the ball over in their 3 runs a match? who will show the opposing winger the sideline and then get beaten to the corner because they spent all their time working on their guns instead of their speed????
man…
Hazem el Magic for Waratahs #11 2010…
Justin said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:30am | Report comment
Some good points there LAS.
Captain Nemo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
Well this is definately a big news day for the ARU. I am in Dubai this evening and it is getting coverage in the the sports programmes over here. If he has hired Mark Obrien as his lawyer, then he has got a guy with a big reputation. i wonder who the main instigator in the ARU was to send Lote to the gallows?? Surely Robbie Deans was consulted at some stage of this??? The ARU bent over backwards to get Deans and there is no way he would of been kept out of the loop. Hypothetically, if Deans had opposed this and wanted Lote to remain part of the squad, would we be reading about Lote’s sacking tonight??
Rah Rah Rasputin said | July 2nd 2009 @ 12:03pm | Report comment
But will Lote be turning out for West Harbour this weekend? Whatever he does I think it will go a long way to showing the true content of his characters and, indeed, are his true intentions.
fox said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
We’ll see a lot of Lote haters come out of the woodworks in the coming days. It will be “This just proves I was right all along in thinking he was crap” or “this is what happens when you bring rugby league players into our game”. Whatever happened he’s been great for rugby in this country. To deny that is just willing ignorance.
Farewell big fella, it’s been great seeing you out there striding through tackles and throwing opposition wingers around like rag dolls!
True Tah said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
fox
theres no doubt that Lote was the form winger in Australian and world rugby at his peak, probably even better than Jonah Lomu, but when was the last time Lote “strode” through tackles and “threw” opposition wingers around?
JC said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:23pm | Report comment
Well said Fox!
Who Needs Melon said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
Jeez there are a lot of conspiracy theorists on this site, aren’t there? And personally I lean towards the Occams Razor approach: The simplest explanation (i.e. the one that’s been given by the ARU) is probably the truth.
Regardless of the cause, I’ll echo the sentiments of “fox” above – i.e. although I think Lotes time was virtually up – and he’s done some damn silly things in his time – it’s a sad way for his Australian rugby career to end. He HAS done some good things for Australian rugby in the past. Was he worth what he was paid? Was he ultimately a net benefit to Australian rugby? Although we were getting diminishing returns on our investment, I think the answer is yes.
eh said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:29pm | Report comment
conspiracy theories are bound to happen when lote looks like david duchovny.
retired rucker said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:37pm | Report comment
Even,
My take exactly, very unproffessional of Jon not to sack him personally and shows he’s castrated when it comes to confrontation where there is prospect of violence.An email is a weak act
I’m happy to see Lote go, what worries me is the effect this will have on the rest of the employees/players with their attitude to management. I hope Dean’s and Jon have explained this properly or all the players will wondering whose next. As some one else mentioned the agents of the top players will be now excluding these clauses(disrepute, behaviour off field ect) on the basis that why take the risk when the money is available elsewhere.
Also emplyment law is heavily wieghted in the favour of the employee and worse now that Krudd/Gillard are in charge- good for the lawyers!
Captain Nemo said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
If Deans had opposed Lotes sacking, who would of got their way??
AndyS said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
Interesting question, but I am sure the ARU would have framed it as “Is Lote so much more valuable to the team than any of our other wingers that we have to overlook…..(whatever atrocity it is that he is supposed to have perpetrated)”
Campbell Watts said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
True Tah you jest!
Is Lote the top try scorer in World up history? No
Was he the top try scorer at 2 world cups? No
Was he the player of a world cup? No
Jonah Lomu was all these things – and a hell of a better winger than Lote ever was!
Mike said | July 2nd 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
Brett (McKay),
Oops, my earlier post was worded more harshly than I intended. I did get your point and I agree with your evaluation of the general situation.
Re another question someone asked: I don’t think this is going to distract the test team. Deans has played a very straight bat, always maintained publicly his admiration for Lote as a player etc. There is a lot of uncertainty surrounding this team anyway – when or if Rocky will return is the major one I think.
Dexter William said | July 2nd 2009 @ 3:30pm | Report comment
What varied responses we have, but no one said is standing up for the ARU in that:
Do we want Rugby players to behave as badly as the Leagies before we support strict disciplinary code of conduct?
LT has disciplinary problems as long as anyone else in the team. He was publicly told to behave and is on his last chance. Is he that thick? Behave yourself, you are representing our country and many young people are looking up to you to do the right thing. You have to be a model citizen. For that you have the honour of playing for your country and getting paid well (plus accolades from the public).
I hear that this affair will shake up the team negatively, but boy won’t they start to treasure the opportunity to represent their country and start behaving responsibly.
If Lote can get the sack, all the other boys better start behaving and be responsible for their actions. Don’t we actually want this?
True Tah said | July 2nd 2009 @ 3:49pm | Report comment
Campbell
at least Lote could say he scored in a World Cup final, unlike Big Jonah, and Im sure Lote scored against South Africa, something Lomu never did either.
Sure Lomu was a big destructive unit with ball in hand, but he has nowhere near the rounded game that Lote did (or maybe had!!). Lote had a far better kicking game and was far better defensively than Lomu ever was.
retired rucker said | July 2nd 2009 @ 3:56pm | Report comment
Dexter,
I’ve had a go at the way he was sacked, I’ve sacked good and bad and I’ve looked them all in the eye when doing it. I agree with getting rid of Lote.
If Rugby wants to be percieved as a sport with ethics and morals then the least ARU could have done was sack him in person.
If Jon couldn’t handle it Deans would have coped. IMHO the execution of the sacking is just or more embarassing to the game than the players having a drink after 12, I mean do we need to drag rugby into treating the players the way the yanks treat their collegiate athletes ie children.
In my mind if Schlack was a wallabie and I was incharge I’d sack him for bringing the game into disrepute
The Link said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:01pm | Report comment
“Some bloggers on this thread have argued that there is a difference in the ARU’s approach on this to that of the NRL during similar disputes. The cases, in my view, are different.”
Spiro, better take those blinkers off.
First of all it appears no one knows whats happened outside of the ARU, Lote and the lawyers, so how you can say that they are different, when there are other cases without the police involved? Brett Seymour is one instance off the top of my head.
Second of all, the ARU has sacked someone and have not given a reason. In recent times this is unprecedented. The prima facie lack of transparency is astounding. The point is with these instances is not to be doing the right thing but to also be seen to be doing the right thing. The ARU fails on at least one of these counts.
Mark said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:04pm | Report comment
True Tah – Lote better than Jonah – I think your rose coloured perception of Lote has clouded your view of a once in a generation player.
CraigB said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Where is it reported that he was sacked via email. The only mention of email I have seen if that was how the aru informed the media.
The Link said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:06pm | Report comment
Also what does Lote’s performance on the field or dollars earnt have to do with this issue?
Lote made the switch successfully, he was the consistent starting Wallaby winger for 4-5 years, he still had alot to give Rugby, even if his role would’ve been different now he’s been overtaken for a starting spot.
Some people really leave their brains behind in the rush to put the boot into an ex League player.
Vincent said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:09pm | Report comment
Mark I’m with you on that one…Lote being compared to Lomu a world superstar over and over? True Tah you need to get out of that mindset.
mahony said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Looking for the week of front page stories from the Telegraph Mirror about this ARU cover up – ala Tim Cahill. Not blody likely as the Tele editor at least had the courage to admit to their ‘add revenue for protection’ policy for the two rigby codes.
Mark said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:16pm | Report comment
Link,
There is a bit of anti-league bias (surprise surprise) but a lot of it is based on the perception that his on field actions didn’t justify the pay or the continued selection. If you asked most SH supporters whether they’d have Lote, Sivi, Habana or any one of 1/2 a dozen other winger, most probably wouldn’t pick him .As a non-Wallably supporter (so I’ve no dog in this fight) he just wasn’t that good as a winger. Flashes of brilliance – yes, great at breaking the first tackle – yes, but he was ntoa consistent threat at the top level.
Now as for his off-field actions, well he hasn’t always been the smartest there either.
JohnB said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:24pm | Report comment
One intangible in this episode is how it affects contract negotiations the ARU has in future. If it ends up looking like the ARU has acted reasonably and only taken this action as a last resort, maybe no effect. If there’s a perception that they’ve acted legalistically, treating something relatively minor as a pretext to get out of a contract that no longer suits them, any player looking at signing a contract with them in future would be entitled to bear that in mind in making a decision.
Mike said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:25pm | Report comment
Mark,
I don’t follow your reasoning here – how is a comparison between Tuqiri and Sivi or Habana or any other non-Australian winger relevant?
I have to agree with Link – Lote was a consistent starting winger for several years for the Wallabies. He may well have had more in him, but even if he didn’t that doesn’t change the fact that he made the switch successfully. The unthinking anti-league bias is apparent in many posts.
If he was paid too much in 2007, then that is the ARU’s fault, not Tuqiri’s.
The Link said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
Mark – agree Lote’s form isn’t there now, but in 03/04 he was very sharp.
Anyway, my point is his current form or coin he’s on has nothing to do with this.
Mark said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:27pm | Report comment
JohnB – it’s be interesting to see what th ‘indiscretions’ are that have & haven’t been punished for different players just to see whether Lote has been fairly or unfairly treated. I mean the Quokka players didn’t get any ARU intervention from what I saw.
Mark said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
Mike – The point I was trying to make to Link was “a lot of it is based on the perception that his on field actions didn’t justify the pay or the continued selection.”
Correct that any overpayment was ARU’s fault but tehy’re not posting here (or are they ?).
Hope I made my point clear this time.
Mike said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:34pm | Report comment
*LOL* What a thought – the ARU posting on the Roar! I suppose its not impossible…
Mark, I take your point, but comparisons to Habana et al, don’t support it. Its comparisons with the other Australian players available that matter. Right now, I don’t think Lote could break into the team (and as a Wallabies supporter I am happy we have such an abundance of riches). But in 2003 the case for his selection was a lot clearer.
JohnB said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:35pm | Report comment
Mark, I probably should have said explicitly that I’m not trying to comment on which way I think it should be perceived – legitimate last resort or grubby pretext (or something in between), since I know as little about the facts as anyone else. Certainly how an infraction by him is treated relative to treatment of others is relevant to the perception. One of the “quokka players” was a wallaby and thus I assume on an ARU contract – how long did that last?
Mark said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:39pm | Report comment
Mike – Fair Call, 03 he was a good pick, past 05 I don’t think so but I’m not a selector except for in my head.
JohnB – Yes I got that & am in the same boat. Lucky for Burger he doesn’t play for Oz.
Brad said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
hopefully the ARU have done their homewark so the issue is finalised. Let this be the last of the converts. Tahu must be shaking in his boots. The ARU have done waht they could in the last 9 years to promote rugby league its time they gave up and concentrated on union again.
Dexter William said | July 2nd 2009 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Retired Rucker,
“If Rugby wants to be percieved as a sport with ethics and morals then the least ARU could have done was sack him in person.”
I have not seen any solid evidence that Lote was sacked via the email.
How do we know that JON did not sit LT down for a chat before the final nail?
Forget about who got sacked. Any player who does not meet code of conduct time after time, whether he maybe Sterling Mortlock or Giteau, I say we get rid of him. Three warnings and you are out, seems pretty fair even if it is just being late for training, food fights, sex scandals, or alcohol related problems.
retired rucker said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
Dexter,
I appologise if I got that wrong but I read he had been sacked by email, if it’s not true I’ve spoken out of turn, appologies JON.
I agree if they make material breaches consitently sack them, especially someone whose had the opportunity to improve.
What I have a problem with is if we/ARU expect perfect behavior from the young uns, regardless of all the money and rules we are dreaming. The boundless energy in the 18-25 year olds needs an outlet. I know I was out of line alot in those years and hope my sons are better behaved but they might be like me and my parents where very good.
So what I’m saying is it is not surprising they had a food fight in their rooms when there is sweet FA for them to do
Jack Petro said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:15pm | Report comment
JohnB … maybe that’s why that Force player never again played for the Wallabies? Also that was a Franchise incident and not an ARU one – although I take the ooint that they had a vested interest. LT’s situation is sad – sad for union fans; sad for the ARU; and sad for LT! Whatever the outcome I hope it doesn’t impede the development of the Wallabies during the TriNations!
Rabbitz said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:38pm | Report comment
What amazes me is this belief that “we have a right to know”. This is usuallybsaid by the fourth estate, but it is increasingly being used by the blogosphere. Well guess what, you do not have that right. Frankly, this is a matter, a private matter, between an employer and an employee, nothing more, nothing less. I have been retrench a couple of times over the years and I would have been mortified if the details of those meetings were made public.
Regardless of this being a sportsman who works in a public field, some matters are simply off limits. If you are not a part of the ARU management then you have no right to any information. Consider that this wasn’t a player, but a marketing exec, or maybe a physio. Would you still feel you should be told why the employee was retrenched?
I believe that the ARU are actually handling this correctly. If the employee wants the details made public, then it is up to him (confidentiality agreements not withstanding).
So given all that, how about this for a possibility? Maybe the company (ARU) is facing some hard times and has decided to retrench a well paid but under performing employee, to reduce overheads? Could it be that simple? Have there been any other ARU employees let go or not replaced as they leave?
stuff happens said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
Lote Tuqiri has been used as a brand image for the much needed and, in my view, neglected development of Australian rugby.His picture appears in virtually every piece of rugby advertising/ media placement in Australia. Potential fans of rugby who don’t pay too much attention to the game all know Lote Tuqiri.Whether you or I like it or not he is a star and we don’t have too many.
If you are going to use a player as a part of the brand image of the game you better make sure that you manage it/him properly.Alec Ferguson at ManU is a past master at this, dealing with players who earn in a month what Lote earns in a year. ( And yes, David Becham; but he is different from ordinary mortals in the world of people as brands!)
No doubt Lote is or has become a bit of a prima donna and misbehaves.People in his position often do.Whether his behaviour justifies his sacking I obviously don’t know, but it’s a very big call.He won’t go away particularly if he continues to play League in Australia or union in UK or France where I would suggest he will remain a star.
Meanwhile in South Africa Schalk B. gets 8 weeks for gouging a player’s eyes and the ARU sacks one of its only stars for undisclosed reasons.The ARU better be right about this.
Jake said | July 2nd 2009 @ 5:46pm | Report comment
Just on the “we have a right know” comment, we don’t pay $140 to go see a marketing exec.
Physio maybe?
katzilla said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:27pm | Report comment
True Tah, Thanks mate, i haven’t laughed that hard in awhile –
‘Lote had a far better kicking game and was far better defensively than Lomu ever was.”
Bahahaha, Kicking game? Nice one.
Brad said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:39pm | Report comment
dude, to mention Lote and Lomu together is a sin. I will be going to church after this statement
Nird99 said | July 2nd 2009 @ 7:45pm | Report comment
I think a few people are missing the point. To me it does not sound like Lote was informed by email, that the media was informed of his sacking by email.
Quote “, which was announced late on Wednesday by an ARU email”.
Justin said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:11pm | Report comment
Nird – Spot on, some people just get a little excited without reading things properly.
Stash said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:17pm | Report comment
What do these unions want? – play like the devil, live like a saint.
I don’t know about you guys, but when I go to an international rugby match there seems to be a lot more grown-ups than kids.
Unless Lote – robbed a bank and mugged a little old lady – whats the real problem? The real problem is a bunch of old time conservative good old boys insisting that all players must live through their 20s as squeaky clean, never say or do anything ungamely or unsightly (unless its on the field – which Lote has historically managed to do both on and off the field.).
Role model argument – sure…but 100% of the time – come on (kids don’t read newspapers anyway, they wouldn’t even know what it means to get drunk and disorderly when celebrating a win).
Lote’s had his fair share of problems (mostly to do with celebrating… as did his old mate Sailor)… but do those that govern need to be so….pedantic…so 1950s everythings perfect, sunday school, preachy, fake flowery stuff.
Lote… many of us loved to hate you…but you were a good villain. Your 67 tests were a great service to your country. The ARU have done you wrong.
Even looser said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:34pm | Report comment
“Nird – Spot on, some people just get a little excited without reading things prop” well maybe that’s true and maybe it’s not.
Channel 10 news announced it as “Tiquiri first learn of his sacking by email’ and then I covered my butt im my rpevious post by also stating “if the reports are accurate” or words to that effect.
So NO…..not everyone is getting excited. It’s definitely what was stated. And again I add IF you can believe the report.
Clear enough?
Rabbitz said | July 2nd 2009 @ 8:44pm | Report comment
So Jake,
You pay $140 to see him and you believe it gives you the right to know about his private details? (Ignoring $140 divided by 44 players means you payed him about $3.18)
So I guess you also want to know the employment arrangements for your medical specialist, which you would pay more than $140…
How about your plumber or the check-out chick at Coles?
Despite the pedastal that sportsmen and women are put on, they are still normal people and employees who should be afforded some normal privacy.
mattamkII said | July 2nd 2009 @ 9:27pm | Report comment
I am with Rabbitz…
has everyone forgotten this is someones lively hood? and that legal proceedings are in play?
Sure it seems Lote has done wrong and it will no doubt come out in the wash..but for f*%K sake! some of you blokes just need to whinge and love a drama so much you miss the point. Now its the ARU, Ol’ Boys Club bias and double standard at work ‘hiding’ the truth…or are they just doing the ethically correct thing to do and wait until all the T’s are crossed.
westy said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:18pm | Report comment
I do not think Lote is the best Australian rugby winger but I do get concerned when some punters are a little to harsh in judgement. indeed it smacks of hypocrisy.
Joe Roff played at 86 tests for the wallabies and scored 30 tries. Lote played 67 tests and also scored 30 tries. Now Joe also played his fair share of tests against the lesser rugby test nations and is held by me in high esteem but at a test level they must not have passed him the ball because he was far from prolific in his strike rate. As they say must have done a done a lot of the ball. Oh that is what eddie said about Wendell. Joe’s strike rate was roughly one try every third test. Lote’s strike rate is much better. His backgroungd is less pleasing to some that is all. .
lote is i think the highest capped Waratah winger and leading waratah try scorer in a team not renowned i am afraid for its backline play.
Not my favourite player and much heavier than when he initially joined rugby but clearly not as bad as some make out.
If Lote’s test strike rate is poor than joe’s is abysmal.
mattamkII said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:22pm | Report comment
Well said westy…be ready for the assault.. you just bad mouthed “roffie”.
mcxd said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:40pm | Report comment
ARU better have a damn good reason. Whilst im no Lote fan, the whole situation seems a big bloody shame not just for Lote but for Waratahs fans, Wallabies fans, players and the ARU. Apprently the tahs were in agreement of his termination (or more likely told that that is what they WILL be doing). The tahs biggest draw card by a long way and theyre want to get rid of him ? Either something very serious or being told that that is the ways things will happen.
Whilst I have no idea what caused it, i feel sorry for Lote. He might not have been the best winger in australia but the guy tried hard and did his best for his country. to treat him like thats disgraceful. When they have no more use for him, chew him up and spit him out.
Stash said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:41pm | Report comment
Hmmm… if the ARU are throwing away players… any chance of throwing Giteau in the direction of the All Blacks until Dan Carter’s fixed?
katzilla said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:45pm | Report comment
Stash don’t be silly…………………Berrick Barnes will do.
Sammy22 said | July 2nd 2009 @ 10:47pm | Report comment
Couple of things or three
Thankyou Lote, 67 tests, there are many that would have loved to say they have that under their belt. You weren’t my favourite player but hey I am an old front rower and was always pissed off when getting out of a ruck or maul and seeing wingers going in directions i couldn’t follow. But hey i trust the coaches of the time and they thought you were there……btw loved it when you played flanker in the world cup.
Thankyou ARU and JON. For running ARU in a far more constructive way than we have had for some time. For having the balls to say when time is time to a player…..who is more importantly an employee therefore ARU pull the strings not the player etc. I dont need to know all the info, you do your job, when i want your job and all the details i’ll come and get it (well you know what i mean I’ll get the PM job first its easier).
Having been very very close to community rugby for many years and others know this, the current generation coming through (socially not just rugby) have an attitude of ‘I believe i am good enough and therefore i will be playing (doing) what i want’, I believe i am good enough therefore i am. We (as Society) have spent years empowering people to believe this ….fine and good for the soul apart from the bit where we forgot to tell them that also means to take responsibility for themselves.
So ARU made a decision…at last I can show the ramification of action to players….no more pussyfooting. May not be the commercially perfect thing and yes the dollar means something (a big thing) but its not everything. I’d rather be involved (give 30 odd hours a week voluntary) in a sport giving to society than having a focus on every player being a wallaby because THEY think so….Its life boys get out there and earn it
westy said | July 2nd 2009 @ 11:32pm | Report comment
If Lote has clearly breached his contract then there are consequences . What i do not like is the complete ridicule of his ability. of the 86 tests Joe roff played for the wallabies and in order of top 5 countries he scored 5 against Romania, 5 against SA , 4 against Argentina 3 against NZ and 3 against Scotland.
Lote in his 67 tests scored the same number of 30 test tries 6 against Scotland, 5 against SA , 5 against NZ . 4 against England and 4 against Italy.
Joe played 17 tests against the NZ and scored 3 tries. Joe played 15 tests against the SA and scored 5 tries.
Lote played 14 tests against the NZ and scored 5 tries, Lote played 14 tests against SA and scored 5 tries
I do not wish to be seen to diminish Joe Roff’s record . But I do wish to highlight that lote’s ain’t half bad either.
Some people do not remember the mumblings in Joe’s day that it was a long break between drinks sometimes or was it that we had no one better towards the end of his career.
Peter K said | July 3rd 2009 @ 12:59am | Report comment
westy – I agree , mind you IMO I did not think that highly of Roff at intl level. Lote strike rate is not far below that of Campese our best winger ever.
At his best Lote was very good. However he has not been at his best for a while.
Sluggy said | July 3rd 2009 @ 1:00am | Report comment
Better to wait for the facts to emerge before passing any opinion on this.
Mike said | July 3rd 2009 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Westy,
Thank you for these figures. I don’t have a problem with posters taking an adverse view of Lote’s recent form, but when it descends to the level of denying his past achievements, then Rugby and its supporters have sunk to a new low.
Some of the comments on this thread have been stupid, there is no other word for them: One poster wrote “Tuqiri couldnt even get his head around the basics of rugby …” – In view of Lote’s achievements that better describes the person who wrote this!
And: “Let this be the last of the converts. Tahu must be shaking in his boots. The ARU have done waht they could in the last 9 years to promote rugby league its time they gave up and concentrated on union again.” – What rubbish. There will be many more converts and Rugby will be the richer for them.
The comparison to Jonah Lomu is irrelevant – Lomu was not available to play for Australia. Lote was, and in his day was one of the most significant wingers to don the Wallaby jersey. If its time for him to go now, then so be it, but only fools denigrate his past achievements.
Sportsmouth said | July 3rd 2009 @ 9:47am | Report comment
So given all that, how about this for a possibility? Maybe the company (ARU) is facing some hard times and has decided to retrench a well paid but under performing employee, to reduce overheads? Could it be that simple?
No Rabbitz, it can’t be that simple he has a contract which according to the rumour mill they tried to buy out, he refused so they sack him! You may be able to retrench in the normal workforce but I think you’ll find unless they’ve got a good reason they can’t just sack the man!
Jameswm said | July 3rd 2009 @ 9:48am | Report comment
Has anyone made the point yet that Lote – sacked for presumably alcohol-related breaches – is an ex-Leaguie? And that this could reflect back on the League mindset he was first exposed to?
I don’t think you can lump Tahu in with Lote. Tahu’s a good player in a different position – one occupied by the Wallaby captain.
Lote had his moments of being the best winger in the world. I still think they should have been breeding him for the back row. And yes League is of course an option, but he’d make more from playing rugby in Japan or France.
vinay verma said | July 3rd 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Not one of the posts has alluded to the problem of binge drinking. The problem is not limited to Sports people. It is symptomatic of our societ. As a parent with Teenage kids many of you will grapple with this same problem. It is also counterproductive to have a leaguies was union argument. It is further pompous to say the Lotes and Symonds of this world should know they are role models. This is abrogating the responsibility we all have as parents and community neighbours.
Neither Lote or Martyn or any of the league players set themselves up as role models. The corporatisation of sport has its own attendant evils.
Complex questions need reasoned answers and an absence of moral posturing.
These comments are offered as a sports lover and not as an expert in any field.
The Link said | July 3rd 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
“Has anyone made the point yet that Lote – sacked for presumably alcohol-related breaches – is an ex-Leaguie? And that this could reflect back on the League mindset he was first exposed to?”
Jameswm – i’ve seen some long bow’s drawn on this site, but this is one of the best.
Poor Rugby, try all they might for 7 years they just couldn’t drum that mungo out of him.
Watch out for those League players hiding in your cupboards and under your beds.
And don’t worry Tahu, Barnes, Elsom, Rugby likes you now, but when you fall, they now who you REALLY are.
What would anyone want to switch to Rugby with rubbish like this?
Crosscoder said | July 3rd 2009 @ 10:29am | Report comment
VV I agree with your sentiments.We (society) have a deep seated problem with abuse of alcohol and “social” drugs.We also have a society where corporal punishment in the schools is a no no.You have to be PC and not spank on the bottom a misbehaving child,Discipline went out the door in the pre teens.Is it any wonder by the time,youth has finished the HSC,they go on the fortnightly binge at Surfers or wherever .Great breeding grounds for alcohol abuse,and anti social behaviour.I see graffiti everywhere,it is considered by some as artistry.And sometimes parents quite willingly provide the kids with alcohol to fuel their needs.The same parents perhaps who look down their nose,to what happens with sports’ people.
People wonder why people including sports people in all codes repeat all codes(yet some will deny it),adopts this attitude in the ME society.
Based on what has happened over the past few years bankers/politicians/clergy/sportspersons/police/lawyers/developers/financiers/media/musicians etc etc are hardly paragons of virtue,and certainly to be held up as role models is a bit rich.
I do not consider myself a role model,simply because I have fallen short of the standards one would expect.But a good kick up the backside or the use of the cane,solved my problem fairly quickly.IOW the school of hard knocks.
That is why I agree ,the moral posturing appears rather hollow.
Crosscoder said | July 3rd 2009 @ 10:44am | Report comment
Jameswm
The old reds under the beds routine,blaming Lote’s rl background.Next we will have rl blamed for the GFC/global warming.
Suggest you maybe check the background of Mr C Shepherd(who was a Wallaby) involving damage to a car, not that long ago.Funny no rl background.Surely he must have handled a Steeden somewhere along the line.
Players have to take responsibiltiy for their actions.They are over 18 years of age,they are eligible age wise to fight in wars.
Blaming a former code smacks of pomposity ,and the usual “get out” clause.Heard and read it all before,and just roll my eyes.
mattamkII said | July 3rd 2009 @ 5:31pm | Report comment
both James and Westy highlight important points that I have mentioned many times (although they are from differing sides).
The fact is NRL converts will never be Rugby Boys in the eyes and hearts of many Union Rah Rahs, or tools as I like to call them.
If Lote, Matt Rogers or even Dell had gone to the right schools and never been near a NRL pitch everyone would have loved them – no questions asked. As it stands, many Union Tools can see past a persons background so the NRL boys need to 1) never drop their form 2) never do anything wrong 3) be 10% better than anyone from a privileged background – Then maybe one day they will be accepted 100% by the Union Tool society.
I love and play union and consider the best game to ever be invented. But sometimes I am ashamed of the bitter, narrow minded ‘eastern suburbs or north shore’ attitudes a section of my fellow fans have.
The truth is both Lote and Dell changed aussie rugby forever. I remember hearing Latho (considered the best by most) talking about how the attitude in the weights room changed the minute Dell turned up at the reds.
LeftArmSpinner said | July 4th 2009 @ 10:05am | Report comment
the Tuqiri clan seems to really be in the wars. Cousin Nasi’s star has vanished too!!! As predicted, just a big baby who was not serious about his rugby!!!!! great at grade level and that is where he will end up.
True Tah said | July 4th 2009 @ 10:14am | Report comment
mattamkil
maybe spending too much time in the weights room was Lote’s problem, spending too much time on his guns and not enough on his speed??
Rabbitz said | July 4th 2009 @ 4:15pm | Report comment
Sportsmouth,
I am a contractor, thus I work on on time and pay based contracts – not unlike a sports contract (They are both employment contracts). I have also employed contractors and guess what – regardless of the status of the employee (contractor, full-time, part-time etc) you can still get sacked, you simply can not have a “you can’t sack me” clause in the contract.
My point was that maybe he was just an underperforming (of late) employee and a management decision was made to remove him and redistribute the capital through employing other workers. Which, as the ARU email stated, makes this merely an employment issue and therefore not a public issue. The ARU are right to let Lote and his beaks decide how public the reasons are made.
mattamkII said | July 4th 2009 @ 9:57pm | Report comment
Leftie, thats exactly what I mean. You almost relish the fact Lotes Cuzz is out of form? The facts are the bloke is 20 years old and didnt have a preseason due to injury….but go ahead, write off his career if you like.
Tru Tah, you may well be right but thats not my point. All I am saying is, our countries best say that bloke like Lote and Dell lifted the expectation on conditioning of our outside backs….whos better to judge that? You or Latho etc?