By Jesse Fink
August 21st 2009 @ 2:04am
Related coverage
Time to go back to the future
Gold Coast players react after Jason Culina scored in the 59th minute to put the Coast 2-0 up during the 1st round A-League football match between Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast United at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane, Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009. AAP Image/Dave Hunt
Ain’t it a funny world? Jason Culina arrives home in a blaze of publicity and a couple of mil in the bank as the A-League’s finest advertisement. Then he turns around and says it’s a poorer technical standard than the National Soccer League. Gee, thanks for coming, Jason! Who needs Frank? Bring back Labbo!
The Gold Coast United and Socceroos midfielder, who used to get around for Sydney United and Sydney Olympic between 1996 and 1999 so knows what he’s talking about, told SBS’s The World Game on Thursday: “I can already see that Australian football has made giants strides forward. It is run very professionally and the facilities are excellent. The game has also improved from a tactical and physical perspective.
“Technically there are some good players but when you compare them to those who played in the old NSL, I’d have to say there needs to be some improvement.
“There might be plenty of foreigners but in the old days we had plenty of Aussie players who were just as good or even better.”
Which is wonderful to hear, because for some time now old hands who have seen the best of both “old soccer” and “new football” have been saying pretty much the same thing.
And they haven’t just been talking about the 1980s or 1990s; in their view, even back in the 1960s there was better football being played by newly arrived migrants and part-time footballers who drew big crowds to stadiums such as Lambert Park in Leichhardt, in Sydney’s inner west.
I can’t vouch for that personally as obviously I wasn’t around then but in 2007 when I was doing interviews for my book about Australian football with men such as Rale Rasic, Archie Blue, Atti Abonyi, Ray Baartz and other luminaries of the era, it was a common theme in their reflections of the period.
So it really needs to be called into question how far we’ve come as a football nation.
What Culina’s comments do highlight, and it’s a point I’ve been making for years now, is the continued triumphalism of physicality in the Australian game and the commensurate neglect or outright shunning of flair.
If a player has any of those “European” qualities the usual view of indentured coaches is that he won’t cut it in the rough and tumble of Australian football. He doesn’t get a trial, let alone signed. So he is compelled to leave for overseas, where his skills will be rewarded and honed. To stay at home would be to let them atrophy.
So many times I hear stories like this from agents of or people close to young players trying to break it in the A-League, especially footballers of Asian or African heritage. Some of the A-League coaches won’t have a bar of them – too small, too light, too slender, too fancy – so they’re packing their bags for Europe or South-East Asia, where their gifts are more appreciated.
The A-League was supposed to stem the player drain but it could be argued we’re losing more players than ever before. And we’ll keep on losing them till the words of people like Culina are properly heeded and addressed.
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tifosi said | August 21st 2009 @ 5:49am | Report comment
Jesse, Would targeting players from south east asia increase the exposure of the a-league in these countries? I think it would.
But Culina is correct, only technically is the A-league behind the NSL. In every other department the a-league is ahead.
One has to also remember that the issue has been addressed and in the future, hopefully, we will start producing technically brilliant players.
Gaz said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment
To be fair, Jason’s only faced the Roar and the Fury (how bad do those two names sound in one sentence?) so maybe he’s talking about the * cough * quality imports he’s seen, like Van Dijk and Fowler? Mind you, Robbie clearly has some brilliant footwork skills in the old body – he just has to be standing on his head before they are unleashed!
No seriously, Culina and the rest of the boys from GCU will change things before this season is over. Bleiberg’s brand of flowing football will show up the limitations of the physical game favoured to date, and suddenly everyone will start playing catchup. The problem is that you need to have juniors coming through our Oz FFA system, not relying on Asian or African imports to supply that technical quality. And that really is a problem.
Realfootball said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
Agree Gaz. The handstand kick in the head combo was a new one and is right now no doubt being built into martial arts movie choreography, henceforth to be known in the trade as “The Fowler”. I hope Robbie thought to patent it.
Phutbol said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment
It may also be the case that those technicallly gifted players from the old NSL didnt have a window to be seen by overseas clubs so stayed here longer and improved the quality of the NSL. What happens as soon as the younger, talented A-leaguers start to show something? Gone OS. So of course that void has to be filled by the next best available, which invariably are not as good technically.
Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment
Nice article Jesse. Interesting comments from Jason, and probably some validity in them but it is just a generalisation. They’re made a player who was playing in one of the most technically gifted football teams in the history of Australian football when he left – coached by his dad, and then has been away overseas for ten years and played at a higher standard again. I suspect it does feel like a comedown to be back but is his radar to be trusted or is it just nostalgia?
There’s always been a smattering of technically excellent players. I was there in the crowd at Lambert in the seventies as a young kid and remember players like Abonyi and APIA’s own “wee Jimmy Rooney” and Terry Butler but I also remember plenty of blood and thunder football and kicking people in the air and hoofing the ball up the park etc. In the eighties for every Oscar Crino (actually there was only one of them) there was a Kenny Murphy or some other talentless lump to counterbalance.
Maybe at the moment we dont’ have enough (young) Vidukas and others who graced the stage the last time Culina was in Australia but the overall technical standard probably has improved ….that said I absolutely agree that it could be lot better if a lot of these smaller and more skillful and imaginative players – who definitely exist, would be given more of a chance. I think one of the positives of the expansion of the league is that at least some more of them will be given a chance …. The faster we get rid of managers like McKinna and Ferguson and replace them with either creative locals or Dutchmen or (my preference) some South Americans the better.
Kazama said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:56am | Report comment
I can’t really comment on this because I didn’t start going to NSL matches until 2000 – but I will say from my own research I know there were a number of professional players running around in the state leagues here who had experience playing in Germany, Yugolslavia etc, so it wouldn’t surprise me that the standard back in the 60s (when clubs here were operating outside the FIFA laws and could sign top players from European clubs without a transfer fee) was much higher than it was now.
I do think though that the point Jesse makes about young Aussie kids who play a more continental style need to be given opportunities to show what they can do in the A-League, else they may be lost in the wilderness of Europe like, say, Scott Jamieson nearly was.
I will also say GCU’s Adama Traore impressed the hell out of me last weekend; I think he’s just the type of player this league should be looking at bringing over. I look forward to seeing him in action tonight.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Geez, what an interesting debate – some considered, counter-balancing views from Vicentin.
The A-League is a new league, and a large proportion of its audience are of a younger demographic – so naturally, they will know little of who or what has passed, the good and the bad (often in equal measure as Vicentin points out), or the fact that those wogs could really pack out a stadium when the mood took them.
Regarding this “physicality” business.
Well, I look at how CCM played against the Victory in the first round: 35% possession, 26 fouls, 6 yellows, Carlos absolutely hung on to all game – and they walk away with a 2-0 win, having actually threatened the goals exactly two times – and it’s very easy for me to agree that this over-physical game is absolutely crap (and of course a CCM fan will think otherwise).
Then we look at Culina carving up the Fury, or Robson running through a lame Roar defence the week before and think to ourselves – that’s what we want to see!!
But then again – the trained eye will look at both of those efforts, applaud the GCU players, but also make the very obvious point that they have been allowed too much time and space and that a bit more physicality from the opposition would have prevented both goals.
Check the clips of both goals and you will see Moore and Busch absolutely ball watching rather than running their arses off, cutting down the space, getting a bit of body on body (which all good defenders do at the very highest levels of the game – even in La Liga!!!).
So if anyone here thinks it’s a one way street, some sort of choice between physicality and Joga bonito – they’re kidding themselves.
As for all these little, skinny kids I keep hearing about, can’t get a gig in the A-League and go overseas – who are they? What are their names? Am I about to see them on my screen any day soon smacking it in from 30m??
I recall how much flak Ernie got for not playing Kaz often enough (was one example of a lightweight) – but the truth was that he barely showed anything all season. And the word is that at training, he was getting pantsed by 3rd stringers.
He goes off to play for an enlightened GVE – coach of the year – future coach of a combined Universe team – and he gets even less game time under GVE than Ernie!!
So I think there is a bit of a myth doing the rounds that extremely talented skinny kids are there capable of walking into the Serie A, but they don’t get a chance in the A-League because they don’t have enough meat on them.
Sounds like a bit of wishful thinking to me.
ps did Benfica ever end up trying to get Kaz back into their squad?? or were they more than happy to see the back of him??
Gaz said | August 21st 2009 @ 9:40am | Report comment
Pip, if you want to see those “little, skinny kids” who can’t get a gig in the A-League, go watch a Junior Reps selection process.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
Gaz
but what are you saying – there are kids there that should be waltzing into the starting XI of any A-League club – except that A-League coaches are too bloody minded to see it?
And where are all these kids who have left our shores that are absolutely killing them overseas?? Had to leave Australia because A-League clubs ignored them?? I keep hearing these stories, but I’m not coming across a hell of a lot of names on my TV screen.
Gaz said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
Pip, I am saying that these kids don’t make it that far. They don’t get the quality coaching and playing opportunities which would bring them up to that level. They end up working as accountants or clerks.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
Gaz
that’s one issue that has to be dealt with, and that’s fair enough.
But many have been implying over the last 12 months that quite a few “technically gifted” young Australian footballers have been forced to leave this country to play overseas, mainly because of the coaching approach of A-League clubs.
And that just sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.
Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
I’m not sure who these players are either, but I will back Gaz’s comments and too often in junior football rep teams are still being filled by the strongest, fastest etc who are never going to get much better rather than investing in the truly skillful or imaginative who with proper guidance (heck even just selection would do) will develop into great players. Luckily things do seem to be getting better but without proper talent identification and pathways most of these will be doing something else with their lives rather than dedicating it to football.
Fair points earlier Pip about the physicality but in those instance where you talk about players walking it in while defenders (belatedly) chased them this is probably about poor tactical decisions/positioning rather than pure physicality. All teams need a balance of the technical and creative with the physical and you have to remember for instance that most Spanish midfielders seem to as tall as your average Australian 14 year old and yet because they have no problem competing at the highest level….most would never have been considered for serious football under the Australian system because they wouldn’t have been big enough or fast enough. I saw an interview with Cesc Fabregas talking about his limitations on futbal mundial – admits he’s not very fast, can’t head the ball very well, can’t dribble particularly well so he has to rely on his passing …doesn’t sound like he’d have been noticed by any junior rep teams in Australia in last 20 years.
The Patafta example is an interesting one – and I’d have to agree that he’s certainly not reached his “promise”. It’ll be interesting to see if Uncle Branko is good to his word and plays him more than his other managers so we can get a proper look at him. Cheers.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
Vicentin
I would certainly agree that positioning, awareness and anticipation had plenty to do with those dfedners chasing their own shadows – but I just want people to be mindful that it’s not an either/or type of scenario.
In relation to junior reps – I honestly don’t have the background to comment – I suspect debates about who should or shouldn’t make such rep squads will exist for ever more, regardless of what we put in place.
But I will say this – by the time a kid is around 17, it will probably be clear if he can meet the bare physical requirements of a professional career.
If you can’t run out a full 90 minutes – you aren’t any good to anyone – we should be adult enought to appreciate that basic point.
As for Cesc – I think he is being a little bit humble!!! (recalling that he would have debuted with the Gunners by the time he was 17 – so he had something going for him)
Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
Putting the cart before the horse – I’m sure most “athletes” would be able to do it (90 min) pretty well with the appropriate training program …. but are they good footballers to begin with? Messi was a tiny kid (so was Ronaldo CR9 before the growth drugs) but they recognised his brilliance as a footballer, not as a marathon runner and worked on him from there…but I don’t see him having problems lasting ninety minutes.
And regarding Cesc – exactly, someone saw something in him. I don’t think they necessarily would have here.
GeneralAshnak said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Vicentin, I think you have your blinkers on. Europe has the luxury of not only having thousands of clubs searching for these talents, but also having football as the game that basically every kid wants to play. This means that more kids who have the potential to be world class players actually play the game and so are more likely to be spotted and developed. Australia has basically started from scratch 5 years ago when the FFA was formed. We have some existing structures that help us to nurture talent, but nothing like the more densely populated countries have. Give us time and you will see us produce more players of the highest order, Australia is very well renowned for punching well above its weight in the sporting arena.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
General
that’s not a fair comment to Vicentin (opening statement) – I think this particular debate is so wide open that a myriad of views are possible, most of which will interesect in many respects.
I don’t actually think anyone is in disagreement here – it’s probably a case of different emphases, but in no way would I be thinking that Vicentin has said anything that would warrant a harsh comment like yours.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
I’m not saying we should try and turn athletes into footballers (as happens in the AFL), I’m saying that an elite professional footballer will possess the bare minimum physical requirements (at least) – and in fact, the very highest paid footballers in the world, are actually excellent athletes – that’s part of their armoury!
But I’m coming from the reverse angle – if a gifted kid doesn’t meet the bare physical requriements (whatever they might be) – he will never become an elite footballer.
Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
Pip, thanks for the defence but no problems I’m employing a sweeper!
General, I’m not quite sure how i was supposed to have blinkers on but whatever it is I’m missing I’m still missing.
In regards to the talent spotting and skills v athleticism thing that I’ve contributed to so many times over the years, I guess what I’m saying is that since junior (rep) football is so results driven resources are put into players who get you results in the short term – strong, fast, aggressive, direct… but there is only so much growth that you’ll see in SOME of these players. However if the model was more around an academy where short term results were not so important but the development of important football skills – yes T & T were developed, then by the time these kids meet up five years down the track then both groups would have progressed but the ones who were seen as the less athletic in the earlier group may have closed this gap (athleticism) and (I’m suggesting) more so than the team winning its rep comps may have on the technical.
I am very aware of the FFA’s latest announcements and think they’re fantastic and let’s hope it drives a cultural change in what we look for in our athletes.
General, if you haven’t read the FFA Curriculum I strongly recommend that you do – it is an uplifting read…
http://www.a-league.com.au/site/_content/document/00001254-source.pdf
The punching above their weight is true (it’s a modern miracle!) but it is usually about other characteristics rather than skill – and my own bias is that I’d like us to match/beat teams because we are as skillful not solely faster, stronger, have better sports science etc.
GeneralAshnak said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment
Ah the Golden Years, it was all so Glorious and Enlightened back then, everything was Better. None of you Young Punks around Today could ever Understand with your Shallow and Callous views.
What a load of tripe. I love how everything was always better in the olden days, there were no problems and the NSL was the pinacle of football in the world. Well bullshit, there were plenty of absolutely horrendous players and even worse teams in the NSL. Sure we had a few great teams – about 8 I reckon – and the rest were either average or terrible.
The best players in Australia will always go overseas, end of. This will mean that those plying their trade here will not be as good as those that leave our shores. This will only change if we end up like the J-League and able to pay a single player multiple millions of dollars per year to stay put.
Mike Tuckerman said | August 21st 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
Just to add my two cents to this illuminating debate, Japanese players are not paid “multiple millions of dollars per year” to stay put.
They stay because language issues and cultural barriers often compels an average J. League player (earning a relatively modest income by world standards) to “stay put” and earn their living surrounded by the relative comforts of home.
Some players take the plunge – Yoshiaki Ota just left Jubilo Iwata to try his luck in Europe – but by and large J. League players “stay put” in Japan simply because it’s easier, not for reasons of remuneration.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | August 21st 2009 @ 7:02pm | Report comment
and yet go off the Japanese radar when they do. I noticed that despite the regular angst in relation to Japanese strikers, Okada is only now considering Morimoto.
Koala Bear said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Jesse,
Jason’s comment is an imaginary one, but I would have to agree only partly, not totally right… I watched a lot of early Australian football in the days when Australia was kicked out of FIFA and we had players back then of the likes of Baumgartner , Sagi, Tamandal, Ninnas, and many others, all were exceptional gifted technical players and showed the Australian fans what Football technique was all about…
However, when we were finally allowed back into FIFA we saw our first touring overseas teams from the English FA, the likes of Everton and Chelsea who come out to play against some Australian representative teams in the form of a NSW XI and Australian XI sides, which I saw first hand … What happened next, was a series of serious embarrassing defeats…. This does not happen today…
We have a different type of footballer in the A-League today, a fitter, more tactically aware, and just as technically gifted players as we did back in Culina’s old NSL days or even further back… But of course the likes of Abonyi, Cirino, and a few others were the exception… But look at what is coming through in SFC’s Kofi Danning, he is developing in the same way as Abonyi, and some of the Newcastle Jets kids are developing in the same vein as Baartz, and then we have the likes of Zullo and co. who are as good as, the young old NSL Viduka, and the likes of, at the same time when they were playing in Australia’s old NSL..
So I disagree with Culina’s comment … as an imaginary egotistical back to the past tripping comment… Nay, the kids coming thru in Australia are streets ahead of the ones who donned the old NSL playing fields of yester year… It may just appears not so in Culina’s eyes, as his era were luckier because when they first went overseas they broke into European Leagues with far less competition then there is today…
~~~~~~~~
KB
DiCanio said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
I’m pretty sure even Danny Tiatto could waltz into a 1960s side and start pulling off rabonas. They game was played at a much slower pace with far less tactical awareness.
md said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment
One might point out that Jason played at the tail-end of a real golden generation in Australian football, where the NSL had 6 or 8 players who were destined to become Champions League players. I reckon of the current league, there are probably 1 or 2 that have that potential. Another season of Kofi Danning developing at his current rate will see him on plenty of radars from good clubs in top leagues. Better judges than me suggest that Rhyan Grant has the potential to be even better than Kofi. Anyone want to suggest players from other clubs clearly in the same class?
Cheers
md
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:57am | Report comment
Kantarovski.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
***STOP THE PRESS***STOP THE PRESS*******STOP THE PRESS***STOP THE PRESS*******STOP THE PRESS***STOP THE PRESS*******STOP THE PRESS***STOP THE PRESS*******STOP THE PRESS***STOP THE PRESS****
Lates news from the Victory camp – and it’s finally good!!
MELBOURNE, Aug 21 AAP – A-League premiers Melbourne Victory have
re-signed their former defender Adrian Leijer from English club
Fulham, and he may be rushed into action this weekend.
The Victory has confirmed Leijer, 23, has agreed a three-year
deal with the club.
The Socceroo was part of Melbourne’s 2006-07 grand final win
before joining English Premier League side Fulham, where he has
barely had a look-in.
It is not clear whether a transfer fee was involved in securing
Leijer.
With the club short of defenders following a hamstring injury to
skipper Kevin Muscat, Leijer could be rushed into the Victory side
to play North Queensland Fury in Townsville on Saturday night.
AndyRoo said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Be interesting too see wether he has come back a better player. More Intense training but less gmae time.
Millster said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
Seen this dynamic a few times now. While obviously I wish every player with European ambitions all the success in the world, how great is it that playing in the A-League is becoming a more-and-more serious alternative to warming the bench for some far bigger club or league.
Now if only Carney would get back into the sky blue shirt where he belongs…
And on a different tangent, highlights the folly of our national team captain no less to be holding out and not playing all the while having good offers from top clubs on the table. I’m getting seriously pissed off with the bloke.
AndyRoo said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:17pm | Report comment
It’s a bit of a worry now, but even if he misses another 10 games there would stilll be 30 plus to play (when you include cups) before the world cup.
AndyRoo said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:39am | Report comment
Hmm my memory isn’t good enough to recall the games well enough to really compare.
I do remember the stars of the Wollongong Team that beat Glory in the Grand final were Chipperfield, Horsley and Stuart young. That sort of too me represent s a similar mix to what you get now. I remember Angelo Costanzo was a bit of a revelation when he started to do well in the old NSL but now his technical ability isn’t as swooned over.
The Roar do play more of a tempo game than a technique one but I think Jason’s perspective might be changed. When he broke into the NSL he was around 16 years of age and played around 35 games in two years so he was a kid amongst men playing for the best team in the NSL. He may be right though so I wouldn’t disagree but I wouldn’t agree either.
Millster said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
This is an issue in which the business executive in me comes out. Who cares if you have genius talent buried in an overall organisation which is such a morass that it doesn’t know what the hell to do with it or how to leverage it for the good of the whole.
Give me the A-League any day over the NSL in that respect. I’m not suggesting for a second that we’ve got it 100% right, and there’s a long way to go. But at least we’re starting to look like we’re building something out of the raw talent that we do have, and are using it to move the game forward.
I’ll always tip my hat to the past. And I’m writing with no disrespect to the old legends. But for me the main thing that comes out of Jason Culina’s comments is melancholy. If what he says is true, all it re-emphasises for me is how disgracefully we squandered the last half century for football in this country of ours.
AndyRoo said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:12pm | Report comment
In some ways it’s reassuring for Culina to point out a weakness which seems to be acknowledged by the FFA hence all the new talk about 433, small sided games and new selection policies. At least it’s not something we have our head in the sand about.
A lot of the players chosen for the NYL teams come from State league teams so the pathway isn’t cut off for guys that don’t appeal to the various youth coaches if you score goals or win games you should get your chance, it just takes longer. I did see it when I was a kid, good talented kids getting overlooked for rep teams because there small but sometimes I suspect what Pip alluded too. Maybe the small guys that aren’t succeeding just aren’t good enough to make up for not having the same engine and presence as the bigger guys. They have to have much better skills not just a bit better.
The “bring back Labbo” line was half hilarious but even in jest half spine chilling.
Art Sapphire said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:21pm | Report comment
There is a difference in philosophy between the traditional club football of the NSL and the franchise football that is the A-League. A-League teams don’t have junior teams, they were created as business entitites and as a result A-League recruiting, in the main, has been purely a results driven exercise. With a squad of only 23 players the last thing you want to do is be patient and develop talented players. You have games to win.
However, with the introduction of the youth league, A-League teams should be encourgaed to take risks, recruit more technical players and try to develop them. The rewards can be substantial both on the playing field and financially.
Hopefully, in a few years time, with the help of some progressive A-League clubs we will see this bearing fruit.
Kazama said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:24pm | Report comment
Speaking of the youth league, does anyone know why NQF don’t have a team?
dasilva said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:31pm | Report comment
KAZ
FFA gave NQF and Gold Coast exemption to participate in the youth league as they are new clubs and it would be a tough financial burden for new starting clubs.
Although Gold Coast decided to participate in the youth league anyway not surprisingly.
Kazama said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:32pm | Report comment
Thanks Das. I think Gold Coast have made the right call.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:26pm | Report comment
Art
good point
Kaz
maybe it’s a cost thing??
Kazama said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
If it is, then all this talk of giving them cap assistance is moot.
Considering they had such trouble getting a senior squad together, maybe it is just their own failing in not being able to enter a team. It’ll hurt them too, not being able to give their “reserves” a run every week like the other clubs (except the Nix); not having a group of young hungry players to promote if needed.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:23pm | Report comment
AndyRoo
I am alluding to what you’ve just said – it’s possible that the smallish kid is missing out simply because he’s not good enough – let’s be honest – most kids will miss out because they are not good enough – that’s the brutal nature of professional sport.
At some stage in our lives, we will be privy to family and/or friends who just miss out – often for a myriad of reason, and yes, there will be times when we feel it’s a touch unfair.
Looking through the A-League – to be honest – I see stacks of little/skinny kids making a go of it.
How big are the likes of Gan, Oar, Berger, etc, etc
Ernie even moved Broxham to the centre of defence on the weekend – have any of you ever stood alongside the Bronx?? He comes up to my chest!!
AndyRoo said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:33pm | Report comment
In regards to the Youth league you don’t have to put a team in the first year. Gold Coast chose too but Nth Qld’s will come in next year or the year after. It is a mandatory requirement for the Aussie based temas to have a NYL team.
It is a concession that in your first year you have a lot on your plate. They have copped a lot of criticism for it as a regional club you would think developing juniors would be their ticket to any sort of success.
But I kind of understand it. My blueprint for the team would have been to then get all the local teams (in the entire Nth QLD region) to prioritize there U17 team as second only to their First team and then next year come in with the best of those player as the Fury NYL Team, starting a year later than the senior team means they aren’t competing with the first team when they try and get a sponsor.
Obviously it would be better if they had a youth team this year but the walk then run strategy isn’t that bad.
I think it’s a shame that stadium time is so expensive that the NYL games don’t take place before the Senior games.
Kazama said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:39pm | Report comment
“I think it’s a shame that stadium time is so expensive that the NYL games don’t take place before the Senior games.”
They do here in Adelaide! It is fantastic to get to Hindmarsh early and watch the kids every week. I agree that it should be the curtain raiser everywhere else too.
AndyRoo said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:45pm | Report comment
I never thought I would be jealous of people living in Adelaide….. but now you have free NYL games, one of the best pitches in Australia, qualified for the ACL 3 times and have the best nickname in the comp (Pissants).
Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
… and before Pippinu chimes in – the best mass murderers!
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Damn – you beat me!!
dasilva said | August 21st 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
i think brenda lin thinks otherwise
In any case we all know the “best” mass murderers is from tasmania.
Midfielder said | August 21st 2009 @ 1:56pm | Report comment
Good discussion to date … my two bob’s worth’s is that the article title and some aspects have been taken as the article itself.. Essentially JC was saying in every way the A-League is better than the NSL… aside from there we more talented players in the NSL… maybe he is right … BUT Australian right now has over 50 players under 23 playing in Europe and they left for a variety of reasons. BUT there has never been that many trying there luck overseas at such a young age…
The reasons they left fall into three areas as I see it, two are solved, one is new and unsolved. Why they left was because of the corruption and favouritism of the NSL clubs ..””Remember Timmy C could not get a run at Marconi “”.. and secondly the void left in the final years of the NSL / Crawford and the start up of the A-League clubs who had / have (in some cases still) no programs from park to A-League team.
The development of the national youth league and national rep selection system will go a long way to solving the path way programs and thus talented juniors will stay.. The new problem has been the constant attack on style by one media broadcaster which has all but said if you want quality coaching take your kids overseas…
From my personal viewing but I have top agree with KB … the A-League teams today would beat the NSL teams … maybe around the late 80’s early 90’s when all the players where at home the NSL may have won… but then we had no one overseas.. sorry Craig J … Also remember whose JC dad is and the circles he would have moved in …
The technical / style thing is there but with the large number of younger players based overseas … but this is changing …
When the Mariners Centre of Football Excellence and the Football NSW Riverstone Academy open … expect more young players to stay at home…
But in closing agree with Milly’s & KB’s post …. The A-League is streets ahead and even JC says this .. it’s just a couple of players and that’s changing too.
My tip the Marines to beat the Choppers (long ball specialist BTW) 2-1… Matty Sim 2 gaols & Danning the scorer for the Choppers…..
Midfielder said | August 21st 2009 @ 2:36pm | Report comment
On the quality side of things A Elrich returns to our first team tonight … WOW …I remember him as a young player … and have fondly followed his career …
Reason way back when … my wife was working at TAFE as a part time teacher… anyway in comes ,a well mannered young boy and says he needs to enroll in a course as he had just this minute signed a contract to play for Pattmatta Power and the contract required him to enroll in a course of study..
Well the teachers had just closed off the rolls and it was just pass closing time … and BTW who the FOOK is Parrmatta Power … the young man accepted what he was told with good grace and said if there is any chance could they consider … NOoooooooooo … my wife stepped in and said … look Parrmatta Power is a new football club starting out next year and if the boy is this good then can we bend the rules just a little… At my wifes request they let AE enroll 5 minutes late and into an already closed group as it was full.
AE thanked my wife and said I will say a pray for you tonight for your kindness … But through the whole thing when his future lay on the line he was polite and well mannered to everyone he spoke to.. to me I tho this kid has quality … his career considering in 2006 he was the next player on the plane to the WC has gone down a little bit … but tho poor club selection (and he is not the only palyer to do that) and injury …. but the little I saw of him last year I saw a touch on the ball and weighting of passes that gave my heart a little skip…
I hope I am right but if he returns to his best ….. he will be the best buy any club in the league has made … and he is with his old trainer from Parrmatta Power in LM….
chook said | August 21st 2009 @ 2:42pm | Report comment
I think that the platform has been set to build upon.
-a proper regulated competition
-the introduction fo the FFA.
-better media coverage.
-better fan base
-more interest in the Socceroos and therefore more interest in general
the quality of the football does matter but with out the foundations of a well admistered league you got nothing. the quality will improve and so well the fans knowledge. give it time and support and it will improve. The player drain is an issue but if the remeber thier roots and bring back knowledge and football skill back to the game it only good. We are not going to learn it by ourselves quickly.
Rob said | August 21st 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
On the development and selection of stronger/quicker/fitter players, I certainly recall playing at State championships and watching, on the whole, the kids that had developed quicker, and were therefore bigger stronger etc getting picked over and above the weedy but skillful kids. i even recall a kid who was a regular in the state team for the first three years (u/12-U/14), who suddenly disappeared off the map when the other kids caught up in size and strength.
That being said, when I was selected for a state academy of sport, the emphasis was much more on skill than size and strength. That stuff was included in the training program, with weights training and fitness/speed work, but the criteria was technique, which is as it should be.
An encouraging sign has been the willingness of Frank Farina to play his kids – skillful, technically gifted kids, and little guys like Henrique and Massimo Murdocca over brute force. The Roar play with some style too, despite not always getting the results, mainly due to inconsistent strikers.
Gold Coast are playing entertaining football too, much as I hate to admit it. But Gaz, you have to get over the team a little bit. They are not reinventing the wheel down the coast, but maybe have refined it a little. but having been able to pick and choose your personnel with (somewhat) unlimited resources has aided their cause too…
This is not a sledge of the Gold Coast, or you, Gaz, but some of the things being said by you, both here and on 442, including this:
“No seriously, Culina and the rest of the boys from GCU will change things before this season is over. Bleiberg’s brand of flowing football will show up the limitations of the physical game favoured to date, and suddenly everyone will start playing catchup.”
…grate on me because it’s as if this flowing football idea is a uniquely Gold Coast invention. It’s not, and never has been. there’s nothing wrong with supporting your team, which you do well, but there is a level of rose-coloured glasses that gets sickening. They are not the revolution, but a new addition to it. A WELCOME addition too, mind, as long as the hubris doesn’t cloud the judgement.
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
Rob
as long as the hubris doesn’t cloud the judgement??!!
Maayte – the horse has well and truly bolted!!
But let us stick with GCU for a moment – nice looking squad, tore apart a hapless Fury, go through every line and we’re looking at quite gifted players (in the context of the A-League), but then we come across names like: Rees; Panta…Pior is so so….Thwaite got dropped from the Victory as they headed towards finals (thank God)…
Folks – 25 rounds to go.
Midfielder said | August 21st 2009 @ 3:39pm | Report comment
Pip
Spot on …. Rob… what physical stuff … FFS we can’t even talk a players big toe in Australia without the style used to cut his big toe being discussed…
Who are the style police anyway … FOOK me the Germany’s plan a style of football I ilke and its not like Spain or whoever …
Style Police …. beware you cause a lot of harm in trying to achieve what everyone is trys to do and accept from maybe 40 or so clubs in the world can … everyone else just plays physical…
Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 3:50pm | Report comment
Take it easy Mid – no one said anything over the top!!!
Ben of Phnom Penh said | August 21st 2009 @ 7:12pm | Report comment
Midfielder has a good point though in that wen Jason left, a far larger percentage of Australian footballers plied their trade domestically. Now we have talent all over the world in far greater numbers. Hence are we producing less talent or are we simply exporting more? This is an important question to ask in relation to improving the standard of the A-League as one is about development and the other player retention. Also as the A-League is in its formative stages younger payers have less certainty about its role in their development and hence in many cases have been leaving too early, as witnessed by the return of Jameison, Williams and Leijer.
For me the big gap isn’t in players but in coaches. Lads, if you want to be consummate professionals get your licences.
danny said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:27pm | Report comment
be interesting to see also how many current a-leaguers in their prime playing years (ignoring the young up and comers and the returning old guard) were at their formative stage when football in this country collapsed. don’t know how much of a role this may have played, but the complete absence of a national league when they were beginning their professional career may have hampered the development of a number of the players. conversely, the presence of a national youth league and an a-league of constantly improving quality will create a generation that, even if it doesn’t have absolute world-class players, will be of a higher base level. hopefully.
Rob said | August 22nd 2009 @ 12:48pm | Report comment
Midfielder, where on earth did I talk specifically about “physical stuff”? My previous post went more to developing technique being more important at an early age than strength and speed. When you start to get to a more elite level, then, yes, of course physical strength and speed, etc, become more important, and need to be developed. What I was complaining about specifically was the selection of “Talent Identification Squads” on the basis of their size, strength and speed before skill.
So I’m not sure what your complaint against me was about.
I quite like the German style as well. they play a well organised, technical style of football that mixes a quality passing game with strength and speed. Nothing wrong with that.
Ben, I am 100% with you on the coaching. The current coaches need to get their licenses ASAP.
And Pip, if the horse hadn’t bolted before, the Goldie crew would be off and racing this morning after soundly beating Adelaide 2-0 last night!
Sigh…
jimbo said | August 23rd 2009 @ 9:46pm | Report comment
Jason Culina is entitled to his opinion like any other Dutch football manager but lets put a couple of things in perspective.
Jason was 16 years old when he first played in the NSL and left by the time he was 18 to try his luck in Europe. Surely as a 16 year old he would have found the NSL more difficult than the A-League today as a 28 year old and 10 years of professional football in Europe.
Jason wasn’t paid very much to play in the old NSL, but chose to return to the A-League for over a million a season. If the A-League is inferior to the NSL then why did he not return to the NSL? Is he admitting he is only coming back to the A-League for the money?
I think Jason is having some withdrawal symptoms like Pimbo, coming from a culture and place where football is the major pastime and being treated like celebrities to an Australian culture where football players [and managers] are not treated the same as they are in Europe.
I hope these aren’t the first seeds of discontent for Jason with the A-League and the new Australian (Gold Coast) way of life and Jason won’t be leaving the A-League and heading off back to Europe before the end of his first season in the A-League.
AndyRoo said | August 24th 2009 @ 9:45am | Report comment
What he said was really quite mild.
I doubt he didn’t know the standard before he came and will be chucking it in anytime soon.
If I was him I would be more upset about the Crowd capping. If I was Socceroo who gave up years in Europe to help out the Aussie game I wouldn’t want it to be for a team that was capping the crowd and therefore the growth of the game to save a few bucks. I would want to feel like I was apart of starting something great, the capping the crowd reeks of being a rich mans plaything rather than a football club and I would it find it quite demoralizing.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:20pm | Report comment
que?
jimbo said | August 24th 2009 @ 10:32pm | Report comment
Ben,
if you haven’t heard, Clive Palmer is talking about capping the GCU crowds to 5K, becasue of a ridiculous Qld Gov charge that when the crowd gets above 5K they have to pay the Qld govt some ridiculous amount of money for “Traffic and crowd control” or something like that.
Its more a protest against the govt than FFA, but if you restrict the sale of tickets to 5K, then you are restricting the growth of football and the crowd atmosphere on the GC.
Clive Palmer is a real farkwit and should be farked off ASAP.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | August 25th 2009 @ 12:59am | Report comment
Ok Jimbo, thanks for the clarification.
AndyRoo said | August 25th 2009 @ 8:49am | Report comment
Those were my thoughts when I read the Courier mail but there was an article in the GC Bulletin that actually quoted him and he clarified.
he is not going to cap the crowd he was just making as ong and dance that the rental fee should be pro rata for GCU and the Titans. A pretty fair argument
He also says the Titans will probably win the Grand final