Time to go back to the future

Roar Pro

By Jesse Fink, 21 Aug 2009 Jesse Fink is a Roar Pro

Tagged:: A-League, football, Jason Culina

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Gold Coast players react after Jason Culina scored in the 59th minute to put the Coast 2-0 up during the 1st round A-League football match between Brisbane Roar and Gold Coast United at Suncorp Stadium in Brisbane, Saturday, Aug. 8, 2009. AAP Image/Dave Hunt

Ain’t it a funny world? Jason Culina arrives home in a blaze of publicity and a couple of mil in the bank as the A-League’s finest advertisement. Then he turns around and says it’s a poorer technical standard than the National Soccer League. Gee, thanks for coming, Jason! Who needs Frank? Bring back Labbo!

The Gold Coast United and Socceroos midfielder, who used to get around for Sydney United and Sydney Olympic between 1996 and 1999 so knows what he’s talking about, told SBS’s The World Game on Thursday: “I can already see that Australian football has made giants strides forward. It is run very professionally and the facilities are excellent. The game has also improved from a tactical and physical perspective.

“Technically there are some good players but when you compare them to those who played in the old NSL, I’d have to say there needs to be some improvement.

“There might be plenty of foreigners but in the old days we had plenty of Aussie players who were just as good or even better.”

Which is wonderful to hear, because for some time now old hands who have seen the best of both “old soccer” and “new football” have been saying pretty much the same thing.

And they haven’t just been talking about the 1980s or 1990s; in their view, even back in the 1960s there was better football being played by newly arrived migrants and part-time footballers who drew big crowds to stadiums such as Lambert Park in Leichhardt, in Sydney’s inner west.

I can’t vouch for that personally as obviously I wasn’t around then but in 2007 when I was doing interviews for my book about Australian football with men such as Rale Rasic, Archie Blue, Atti Abonyi, Ray Baartz and other luminaries of the era, it was a common theme in their reflections of the period.

So it really needs to be called into question how far we’ve come as a football nation.

What Culina’s comments do highlight, and it’s a point I’ve been making for years now, is the continued triumphalism of physicality in the Australian game and the commensurate neglect or outright shunning of flair.

If a player has any of those “European” qualities the usual view of indentured coaches is that he won’t cut it in the rough and tumble of Australian football. He doesn’t get a trial, let alone signed. So he is compelled to leave for overseas, where his skills will be rewarded and honed. To stay at home would be to let them atrophy.

So many times I hear stories like this from agents of or people close to young players trying to break it in the A-League, especially footballers of Asian or African heritage. Some of the A-League coaches won’t have a bar of them – too small, too light, too slender, too fancy – so they’re packing their bags for Europe or South-East Asia, where their gifts are more appreciated.

The A-League was supposed to stem the player drain but it could be argued we’re losing more players than ever before. And we’ll keep on losing them till the words of people like Culina are properly heeded and addressed.

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The Crowd Says (61) | Page 1 of Comments

tifosi said | August 21st 2009 @ 5:49am | Report comment

Jesse, Would targeting players from south east asia increase the exposure of the a-league in these countries? I think it would.

But Culina is correct, only technically is the A-league behind the NSL. In every other department the a-league is ahead.

One has to also remember that the issue has been addressed and in the future, hopefully, we will start producing technically brilliant players.

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Gaz said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:39am | Report comment

To be fair, Jason’s only faced the Roar and the Fury (how bad do those two names sound in one sentence?) so maybe he’s talking about the * cough * quality imports he’s seen, like Van Dijk and Fowler? Mind you, Robbie clearly has some brilliant footwork skills in the old body – he just has to be standing on his head before they are unleashed!

No seriously, Culina and the rest of the boys from GCU will change things before this season is over. Bleiberg’s brand of flowing football will show up the limitations of the physical game favoured to date, and suddenly everyone will start playing catchup. The problem is that you need to have juniors coming through our Oz FFA system, not relying on Asian or African imports to supply that technical quality. And that really is a problem.

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- Realfootball said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:17am | Report comment
  
  Agree Gaz. The handstand kick in the head combo was a new one and is right now no doubt being built into martial arts movie choreography, henceforth to be known in the trade as “The Fowler”. I hope Robbie thought to patent it.
  
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Phutbol said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:43am | Report comment

It may also be the case that those technicallly gifted players from the old NSL didnt have a window to be seen by overseas clubs so stayed here longer and improved the quality of the NSL. What happens as soon as the younger, talented A-leaguers start to show something? Gone OS. So of course that void has to be filled by the next best available, which invariably are not as good technically.

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Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:55am | Report comment

Nice article Jesse. Interesting comments from Jason, and probably some validity in them but it is just a generalisation. They’re made a player who was playing in one of the most technically gifted football teams in the history of Australian football when he left – coached by his dad, and then has been away overseas for ten years and played at a higher standard again. I suspect it does feel like a comedown to be back but is his radar to be trusted or is it just nostalgia?

There’s always been a smattering of technically excellent players. I was there in the crowd at Lambert in the seventies as a young kid and remember players like Abonyi and APIA’s own “wee Jimmy Rooney” and Terry Butler but I also remember plenty of blood and thunder football and kicking people in the air and hoofing the ball up the park etc. In the eighties for every Oscar Crino (actually there was only one of them) there was a Kenny Murphy or some other talentless lump to counterbalance.

Maybe at the moment we dont’ have enough (young) Vidukas and others who graced the stage the last time Culina was in Australia but the overall technical standard probably has improved ….that said I absolutely agree that it could be lot better if a lot of these smaller and more skillful and imaginative players – who definitely exist, would be given more of a chance. I think one of the positives of the expansion of the league is that at least some more of them will be given a chance …. The faster we get rid of managers like McKinna and Ferguson and replace them with either creative locals or Dutchmen or (my preference) some South Americans the better.

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Kazama said | August 21st 2009 @ 8:56am | Report comment

I can’t really comment on this because I didn’t start going to NSL matches until 2000 – but I will say from my own research I know there were a number of professional players running around in the state leagues here who had experience playing in Germany, Yugolslavia etc, so it wouldn’t surprise me that the standard back in the 60s (when clubs here were operating outside the FIFA laws and could sign top players from European clubs without a transfer fee) was much higher than it was now.

I do think though that the point Jesse makes about young Aussie kids who play a more continental style need to be given opportunities to show what they can do in the A-League, else they may be lost in the wilderness of Europe like, say, Scott Jamieson nearly was.

I will also say GCU’s Adama Traore impressed the hell out of me last weekend; I think he’s just the type of player this league should be looking at bringing over. I look forward to seeing him in action tonight.

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Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 9:33am | Report comment

Geez, what an interesting debate – some considered, counter-balancing views from Vicentin.

The A-League is a new league, and a large proportion of its audience are of a younger demographic – so naturally, they will know little of who or what has passed, the good and the bad (often in equal measure as Vicentin points out), or the fact that those wogs could really pack out a stadium when the mood took them.

Regarding this “physicality” business.

Well, I look at how CCM played against the Victory in the first round: 35% possession, 26 fouls, 6 yellows, Carlos absolutely hung on to all game – and they walk away with a 2-0 win, having actually threatened the goals exactly two times – and it’s very easy for me to agree that this over-physical game is absolutely crap (and of course a CCM fan will think otherwise).

Then we look at Culina carving up the Fury, or Robson running through a lame Roar defence the week before and think to ourselves – that’s what we want to see!!

But then again – the trained eye will look at both of those efforts, applaud the GCU players, but also make the very obvious point that they have been allowed too much time and space and that a bit more physicality from the opposition would have prevented both goals.

Check the clips of both goals and you will see Moore and Busch absolutely ball watching rather than running their arses off, cutting down the space, getting a bit of body on body (which all good defenders do at the very highest levels of the game – even in La Liga!!!).

So if anyone here thinks it’s a one way street, some sort of choice between physicality and Joga bonito – they’re kidding themselves.

As for all these little, skinny kids I keep hearing about, can’t get a gig in the A-League and go overseas – who are they? What are their names? Am I about to see them on my screen any day soon smacking it in from 30m??

I recall how much flak Ernie got for not playing Kaz often enough (was one example of a lightweight) – but the truth was that he barely showed anything all season. And the word is that at training, he was getting pantsed by 3rd stringers.

He goes off to play for an enlightened GVE – coach of the year – future coach of a combined Universe team – and he gets even less game time under GVE than Ernie!!

So I think there is a bit of a myth doing the rounds that extremely talented skinny kids are there capable of walking into the Serie A, but they don’t get a chance in the A-League because they don’t have enough meat on them.

Sounds like a bit of wishful thinking to me.

ps did Benfica ever end up trying to get Kaz back into their squad?? or were they more than happy to see the back of him??

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- Gaz said | August 21st 2009 @ 9:40am | Report comment
  
  Pip, if you want to see those “little, skinny kids” who can’t get a gig in the A-League, go watch a Junior Reps selection process.
  
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- Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 9:44am | Report comment
  
  Gaz
  but what are you saying – there are kids there that should be waltzing into the starting XI of any A-League club – except that A-League coaches are too bloody minded to see it?
  
  And where are all these kids who have left our shores that are absolutely killing them overseas?? Had to leave Australia because A-League clubs ignored them?? I keep hearing these stories, but I’m not coming across a hell of a lot of names on my TV screen.
  
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  - Gaz said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:10am | Report comment
    
    Pip, I am saying that these kids don’t make it that far. They don’t get the quality coaching and playing opportunities which would bring them up to that level. They end up working as accountants or clerks.
    
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  - Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:47am | Report comment
    
    Gaz
    that’s one issue that has to be dealt with, and that’s fair enough.
    
    But many have been implying over the last 12 months that quite a few “technically gifted” young Australian footballers have been forced to leave this country to play overseas, mainly because of the coaching approach of A-League clubs.
    
    And that just sounds like a gross exaggeration to me.
    
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    - Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
      
      I’m not sure who these players are either, but I will back Gaz’s comments and too often in junior football rep teams are still being filled by the strongest, fastest etc who are never going to get much better rather than investing in the truly skillful or imaginative who with proper guidance (heck even just selection would do) will develop into great players. Luckily things do seem to be getting better but without proper talent identification and pathways most of these will be doing something else with their lives rather than dedicating it to football.
      
      Fair points earlier Pip about the physicality but in those instance where you talk about players walking it in while defenders (belatedly) chased them this is probably about poor tactical decisions/positioning rather than pure physicality. All teams need a balance of the technical and creative with the physical and you have to remember for instance that most Spanish midfielders seem to as tall as your average Australian 14 year old and yet because they have no problem competing at the highest level….most would never have been considered for serious football under the Australian system because they wouldn’t have been big enough or fast enough. I saw an interview with Cesc Fabregas talking about his limitations on futbal mundial – admits he’s not very fast, can’t head the ball very well, can’t dribble particularly well so he has to rely on his passing …doesn’t sound like he’d have been noticed by any junior rep teams in Australia in last 20 years.
      
      The Patafta example is an interesting one – and I’d have to agree that he’s certainly not reached his “promise”. It’ll be interesting to see if Uncle Branko is good to his word and plays him more than his other managers so we can get a proper look at him. Cheers.
      
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    - Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:29am | Report comment
      
      Vicentin
      I would certainly agree that positioning, awareness and anticipation had plenty to do with those dfedners chasing their own shadows – but I just want people to be mindful that it’s not an either/or type of scenario.
      
      In relation to junior reps – I honestly don’t have the background to comment – I suspect debates about who should or shouldn’t make such rep squads will exist for ever more, regardless of what we put in place.
      
      But I will say this – by the time a kid is around 17, it will probably be clear if he can meet the bare physical requirements of a professional career.
      
      If you can’t run out a full 90 minutes – you aren’t any good to anyone – we should be adult enought to appreciate that basic point.
      
      As for Cesc – I think he is being a little bit humble!!! (recalling that he would have debuted with the Gunners by the time he was 17 – so he had something going for him)
      
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      - Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:38am | Report comment
        
        Putting the cart before the horse – I’m sure most “athletes” would be able to do it (90 min) pretty well with the appropriate training program …. but are they good footballers to begin with? Messi was a tiny kid (so was Ronaldo CR9 before the growth drugs) but they recognised his brilliance as a footballer, not as a marathon runner and worked on him from there…but I don’t see him having problems lasting ninety minutes.
        
        And regarding Cesc – exactly, someone saw something in him. I don’t think they necessarily would have here.
        
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        GeneralAshnak said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
        
        Vicentin, I think you have your blinkers on. Europe has the luxury of not only having thousands of clubs searching for these talents, but also having football as the game that basically every kid wants to play. This means that more kids who have the potential to be world class players actually play the game and so are more likely to be spotted and developed. Australia has basically started from scratch 5 years ago when the FFA was formed. We have some existing structures that help us to nurture talent, but nothing like the more densely populated countries have. Give us time and you will see us produce more players of the highest order, Australia is very well renowned for punching well above its weight in the sporting arena.
        
        Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
        
        General
        that’s not a fair comment to Vicentin (opening statement) – I think this particular debate is so wide open that a myriad of views are possible, most of which will interesect in many respects.
        
        I don’t actually think anyone is in disagreement here – it’s probably a case of different emphases, but in no way would I be thinking that Vicentin has said anything that would warrant a harsh comment like yours.
      - Pippinu said | August 21st 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
        
        I’m not saying we should try and turn athletes into footballers (as happens in the AFL), I’m saying that an elite professional footballer will possess the bare minimum physical requirements (at least) – and in fact, the very highest paid footballers in the world, are actually excellent athletes – that’s part of their armoury!
        
        But I’m coming from the reverse angle – if a gifted kid doesn’t meet the bare physical requriements (whatever they might be) – he will never become an elite footballer.
        
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        Vicentin said | August 21st 2009 @ 12:55pm | Report comment
        
        Pip, thanks for the defence but no problems I’m employing a sweeper!
        
        General, I’m not quite sure how i was supposed to have blinkers on but whatever it is I’m missing I’m still missing.
        
        In regards to the talent spotting and skills v athleticism thing that I’ve contributed to so many times over the years, I guess what I’m saying is that since junior (rep) football is so results driven resources are put into players who get you results in the short term – strong, fast, aggressive, direct… but there is only so much growth that you’ll see in SOME of these players. However if the model was more around an academy where short term results were not so important but the development of important football skills – yes T & T were developed, then by the time these kids meet up five years down the track then both groups would have progressed but the ones who were seen as the less athletic in the earlier group may have closed this gap (athleticism) and (I’m suggesting) more so than the team winning its rep comps may have on the technical.
        
        I am very aware of the FFA’s latest announcements and think they’re fantastic and let’s hope it drives a cultural change in what we look for in our athletes.
        
        General, if you haven’t read the FFA Curriculum I strongly recommend that you do – it is an uplifting read…
        
        http://www.a-league.com.au/site/_content/document/00001254-source.pdf
        
        The punching above their weight is true (it’s a modern miracle!) but it is usually about other characteristics rather than skill – and my own bias is that I’d like us to match/beat teams because we are as skillful not solely faster, stronger, have better sports science etc.
GeneralAshnak said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:00am | Report comment

Ah the Golden Years, it was all so Glorious and Enlightened back then, everything was Better. None of you Young Punks around Today could ever Understand with your Shallow and Callous views.

What a load of tripe. I love how everything was always better in the olden days, there were no problems and the NSL was the pinacle of football in the world. Well bullshit, there were plenty of absolutely horrendous players and even worse teams in the NSL. Sure we had a few great teams – about 8 I reckon – and the rest were either average or terrible.

The best players in Australia will always go overseas, end of. This will mean that those plying their trade here will not be as good as those that leave our shores. This will only change if we end up like the J-League and able to pay a single player multiple millions of dollars per year to stay put.

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- Mike Tuckerman said | August 21st 2009 @ 1:13pm | Report comment
  
  Just to add my two cents to this illuminating debate, Japanese players are not paid “multiple millions of dollars per year” to stay put.
  
  They stay because language issues and cultural barriers often compels an average J. League player (earning a relatively modest income by world standards) to “stay put” and earn their living surrounded by the relative comforts of home.
  
  Some players take the plunge – Yoshiaki Ota just left Jubilo Iwata to try his luck in Europe – but by and large J. League players “stay put” in Japan simply because it’s easier, not for reasons of remuneration.
  
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  - Ben of Phnom Penh said | August 21st 2009 @ 7:02pm | Report comment
    
    and yet go off the Japanese radar when they do. I noticed that despite the regular angst in relation to Japanese strikers, Okada is only now considering Morimoto.
    
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Koala Bear said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:03am | Report comment

Jesse,
Jason’s comment is an imaginary one, but I would have to agree only partly, not totally right… I watched a lot of early Australian football in the days when Australia was kicked out of FIFA and we had players back then of the likes of Baumgartner , Sagi, Tamandal, Ninnas, and many others, all were exceptional gifted technical players and showed the Australian fans what Football technique was all about…

However, when we were finally allowed back into FIFA we saw our first touring overseas teams from the English FA, the likes of Everton and Chelsea who come out to play against some Australian representative teams in the form of a NSW XI and Australian XI sides, which I saw first hand … What happened next, was a series of serious embarrassing defeats…. This does not happen today…

We have a different type of footballer in the A-League today, a fitter, more tactically aware, and just as technically gifted players as we did back in Culina’s old NSL days or even further back… But of course the likes of Abonyi, Cirino, and a few others were the exception… But look at what is coming through in SFC’s Kofi Danning, he is developing in the same way as Abonyi, and some of the Newcastle Jets kids are developing in the same vein as Baartz, and then we have the likes of Zullo and co. who are as good as, the young old NSL Viduka, and the likes of, at the same time when they were playing in Australia’s old NSL..

So I disagree with Culina’s comment … as an imaginary egotistical back to the past tripping comment… Nay, the kids coming thru in Australia are streets ahead of the ones who donned the old NSL playing fields of yester year… It may just appears not so in Culina’s eyes, as his era were luckier because when they first went overseas they broke into European Leagues with far less competition then there is today…

~~~~~~~~
KB

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DiCanio said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment

I’m pretty sure even Danny Tiatto could waltz into a 1960s side and start pulling off rabonas. They game was played at a much slower pace with far less tactical awareness.

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md said | August 21st 2009 @ 10:52am | Report comment

One might point out that Jason played at the tail-end of a real golden generation in Australian football, where the NSL had 6 or 8 players who were destined to become Champions League players. I reckon of the current league, there are probably 1 or 2 that have that potential. Another season of Kofi Danning developing at his current rate will see him on plenty of radars from good clubs in top leagues. Better judges than me suggest that Rhyan Grant has the potential to be even better than Kofi. Anyone want to suggest players from other clubs clearly in the same class?
Cheers
md

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