By Gweeds -
September 23rd 2009 @ 1:40am
Get a Roar profile
Loading ...Related coverage
Why the FFA treats fans like terrorists
Do you go to A-League matches? Ever heard of ‘Hatamoto?’ No, it’s not a Manga cartoon or some new form of Japanese art. But maybe you should know about them, considering that you may be filmed or observed by their employees.
Hatamoto has been engaged for some time now by the FFA to provide “in house security management support.”
Shadowy Hatamoto staff are present amongst fans to collect information. They are now known to fans as the “cargo pants wearing, black polo sporting posse.”
The names of the people running Hatamoto are on the website for all to see.
It wasn’t difficult for enterprising Melbourne fans to find them on Facebook and match their profile photos with the aforementioned cargo wearing gentleman (so much for ‘security’).
They are starting to get known, not only in the grounds, but also in places like pubs, or in pre-game marches. Some fans think that they may build files about some people.
Apparently one fan was startled when one of these Hatamoto characters addressed him by his first name, considering he had never met this person before.
In Adelaide last Friday, one fan caught them on his mobile phone filming Melbourne supporters watching the match.
Scrolling down the blurb in the Hatamoto website shows probably why this has been done: “We understand the complexity and scope of such events can provide all facets of the security management required including assisting our clients to minimise the impact that poor media exposure can have on their brand and consequently the event”.
I can understand the FFA point of view, to some extent.
Football has had a pretty bad rap in the past. Also, the fact that many in the media either don’t care about football or are actively working for competing codes makes the ‘image’ of football in Australia a crucial part of whether the game succeeds.
And I want it to succeed.
However, I do wonder whether the FFA is going about it the wrong way.
The FFA can’t have their cake and eat it too. If they want colour, movement and lots of noise picked up by Foxtel mikes, they have to live with an autonomous group which is outside their control.
More worryingly, engaging these sort of ‘terrorist consultants’ betray a certain lack of knowledge about football.
One way that football can create a unique ‘brand,’ as they call it, is through the way the sport is supported. If you force football support to become a carbon copy of other codes, it will lose a lot of its shine and attractiveness.
Instead of engaging something like Hatamoto, and have these individuals in the shadows at matches, it would be better if the FFA actively engaged with fans and started a dialogue.
It is not guaranteed that everything will be always hunky dory, as inevitably in any crowd there will be some who are determined to create mischief. But I think it will reduce the amount of behaviour that is seen as problematic if active fans don’t go into the ground already thinking that they are seen as a problem.
Like this content? Buzz it up!
Free Email updates:
Our daily emails are only sent if there is content for the sport or that author. You can subscribe to multiple daily emails; or get the daily Roar email with all our content in it. We value privacy. More...
(41)
Midfielder said | September 23rd 2009 @ 3:58am | Report comment
Gweeds
Insightful, informative and tho provoking article… many questions … first do you have any idea of how to curb those fans that give us all a bad name??
Freud of Football said | September 23rd 2009 @ 4:34am | Report comment
“If you force football support to become a carbon copy of other codes, it will lose a lot of its shine and attractiveness.” – A valid point indeed only it would seem the administrators of the A-League don’t know how to go about creating this brand. They wish that the deep-seated rivalries would develop but don’t want any crowd problems, a genuine “can’t have your cake and eat it too” dilemma.
However what I’d be interested in is this Haramoto bunch, I saw they have helped plan 4 olympics, well that’s great but what experience do they have with football? Who on their staff has worked for a big European club with a hooliganism problem, or even a Celtic/Rangers type team with very passionate fans?
The olympics isn’t exactly well known for its hostility amongst fans, I’m not saying there is a great deal amongst A-League fans but there is certainly less god will at Hindmarsh Stadium than seen at an olympics, also less security, less planning and more events not to mention alcohol.
“it would be better if the FFA actively engaged with fans and started a dialogue. ” – Here I’ll disagree, this is what Mike Tuckermann posted in his article, the news report from channel 9.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF8aJih7RM
Would you honestly want Aleks sitting down with Ben Buckley and airing his opinions? I mean, he doesn’t seem like the brightest guy in the world but that’s not even the point, the thing is, you’re immediately going to have conflicting opinions and while it is a game for the people, there is a reason it’s not a democracy, we don’t vote people in.
Football needs to be run like a business, that’s part of the structure and difference of the A-League that had to be changed from the NSL and it has been very effective so far. Engaging Haramoto is definately questionable, I’d say, employ someone full-time and send them on a reconnaissance mission to Europe for a couple of months in the off season, clubs in Europe know how to deal with the very worst incidents and could help provide the guidelines needed from stewarding & security to safety and all-importantly, policing.
Art Sapphire said | September 23rd 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Freud – selectively using some twit being interviewed from a stupid Channel 9 report is pretty inane when trying to make a point to discredit Mike Tuckerman’s correct observation. ” it would be better if the FFA actively engaged with fans and started a dialogue”.
I will give you an example of what Gweeds is trying to point out. Last season, for some ridiculous reason Public Order Management police (basically riot cops in overalls) were deployed to the active support section at Melbourne Victory home games for what the FFA deemed to be high risk games ( against Adelaide, Sydney). The nearest away supporters were over 100 metres away at the other end of the ground.
Everyone knows that there is no likelihood of trouble in the home end support between fans as they all support the same team. So what are they doing there?? If they have to be deployed, well, you would think they would be where trouble is more likely to start – near the away supporters.
The upshot is that many of the Victory active supporters are being to portrayed as something that they are not for no logical reason. It causes huge resentment and distrust with the authorities and is the reason why Gweeds has posted this piece, to raise awareness of how the FFA is going about this in the wrong way.
I am not even an active supporter at home games (I prefer to watch the games from a better viewing position) but I can sympathise with the crap that the active supporters have to contend with. Without them there would be no atmosphere at the games whatsoever.
Hypocritically, the FFA based their marketing campaigns on the type of atmosphere and support active supporters give to A-League games. Work that out!
Redb said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:37am | Report comment
Art,
Amazing how serious you are when discussing your preferred football code. Lost your sense of humour all of sudden.
The fact is if a sport requires the fans to provide the excitement that is more of a concern than anything. Think about that.
Redb
Art Sapphire said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:43pm | Report comment
Redb – I never lose my sense of humour.
This a serious issue – unlike the code war nonsense where people get all worked up over nothing and you have to take the big humour stick out to teach them a lesson.
To you other point – The sport of football is exciting enough as it is. The difference with other forms is that passionate football fans see themselves as participants not spectators. They do everything they can to help the team win the game. Everywhere you go around the world – people express this differently – be it playing music, dancing, chanting, singing.
They can go to the pictures if they want to be theatregoers or maybe even an AFL game.
Oops – there I was being funny again
Redb said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
Yes I think futbol fans take themselves way too seriously.
Enjoy the game, watch it, Zaharkis !!!!
Redb
Freud of Football said | September 23rd 2009 @ 5:08pm | Report comment
I wasn’t trying to dsicredit Mike’s article at all, I thought it was a well written piece in fact. I merely stated that Aleks wouldn’t be my choice to represent fans at the FFA
Robbos said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
Redb, I think it’s the fans who add atmosphere, not to provide entertainment. If you are unsure what I’m talking about. go & watch a boxing day test between Australia v Sth Africa & then watch a boxing day test between England v Australia with the barmy army. Same sport, different atmosphere.
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:41am | Report comment
Art makes a good point that the FFA bases its marketing campaings on game atmosphere, but then behind the scenes is setting spooks on segments of them.
There is a bit of a mis-match in the public spin and the reality.
Gaz said | September 23rd 2009 @ 7:24am | Report comment
Ideally, the FFA should be working closely with the official supporters group. There should be some good faith that real supporters want to enjoy the game in a safe environment.
The FFA should be offering these groups incentives such as price reductions, access to special events, etc. In return, they should expect that anyone threatening the peace at games will be identified, and information passed on.
Of course that does not provide blanket security for the entire stadium, but OTOH we already have police and CCTV. This Matomoto stuff sounds like overkill. To quote a Neil Young song about our new terrorism-focussed media politics, a lot of people have gotten rich turning B.S. into gold.
melbvictory87 said | September 23rd 2009 @ 7:41am | Report comment
SO TRUE!!!! ive only been complaining about this for 3 years. theres a reason why this sport is 10000x more popular than afl and league and thats its amazing atmosphere. why the hell would you want to subdue what makes this sport great
melbvictory87 said | September 23rd 2009 @ 7:44am | Report comment
i have to say we have an ‘interesting’ FA. what they do for our national team and future national sides via development is absolutely amazing and makes me feel confident of the socceroos future. how they handle the a-league does leave a little bit to be desired
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 7:59am | Report comment
That a CEO like Buckley, paid $1.5 mill per annum to look after the game, would sit down with a pimply kid to discuss such heavy issues is pretty difficult to imagine, to be honest.
Also, when we talk supporter groups, there are likely to be more than one, and in total they are likely to represent a small percentage of the total membership.
The Victory has a membership of about 18,000 (sorry, unsure of the exact number) – the total sum of the well known supporter groups might represent 10 to 15% of that, certainly no more than 20%.
I get a couple of emails from the Victory every week – in fact I get one from Buckley every second week – presumably all A-League members get the same thing – there you go – that’s a form of dialogue of sorts.
Killer_Tomatoes said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:46pm | Report comment
Pimply kids? Hardly in the case of Melbourne. Most of the ‘fan representatives’ from both the North and South End’s and from the wings, who have dealt with the club, VicPol and the FFA before are over 30 (some over 50) and are all full time professionals working in respectable positions. Hardly petulant teenagers.
As for the percentage the ’supporters groups’ make up of total membership, that would probably be closer to 1% Pip, but, those groups do as you say represent possibly close to 10% of total club members.
Yes, you may get messages from Ben Buckley (highly doubtful actually written by himself), but he’s made it abundantly clear that he has no interest in listening to your respsonse. “The FFA will not be dictated to by fans” is a quote that comes to mind.
Tom said | September 23rd 2009 @ 9:34am | Report comment
Well no, Pip. That’d be a monologue.
I’m not sure what I think about this. On one level, it seems pretty creepy to have people gathering security information about football fans without any kind of public transparency. On another, small intelligence gathering groups are far more likely to be able to weed out the bad eggs from the genuine supporters than police and Etihad security guards.
I’m a bit concerned about what this information gets used for. Does it get passed on to police? Does the FFA have access to it? Who chooses what gets passed on and what doesn’t? There doesn’t seem to be a lot of accountability here.
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 9:43am | Report comment
You’re right, strictly speaking, that’s a monologue.
Although the Victory emails do say they value our feedback!
Art Sapphire said | September 23rd 2009 @ 9:53am | Report comment
Tom raised some interesting points in regards to the FFA’s and Hatamoto’s methodology.
Yesterday, I asked Mike Tuckerman and the football journalism fraternity to get off their lazy behinds and do some work.
Lots of interesting questions are being raised in regards to public transparency and also use of private information.
If its too hard for them, surely they can handball it to a proper investigative journalist to chase this up.
cab711 said | September 23rd 2009 @ 10:33am | Report comment
This is a load of bullocks. There are more problem in state league games than the a-league. Talk about a tsunami in a teacup. Real news is on how to get rid of Aloisi without hurting his pride or how to keep Shane Smeltz before he flies off to Abu Dhabi FC or that Matt Simon and Muscat may have both male and female genitals.
David V. said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
The state league issues sort themselves out, because support for the “problem” (sic) teams is gradually evaporating anyway. The state federations, especially NSW, tend to be pretty incompetent- and that’s one of the very few things we can all agree with Craig Foster and SBS on.
Robbos said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
Funny I agree with most of what Craig Foster says. I once could name the complete English team that won the 1966 WC & thought them the best team ever, but then I found out the rest of the world played football too.
Gweeds said | September 23rd 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
Regarding dialogue between the FFA and supporters I take your point Pippinu. However I would venture that the FFA would only need to engage with a section of supporter (ie the ones that stand behind the goals and support actively the team trough choreography etc.) and while we wouldn’t expect Buckley to talk to these supporters there is certainly a need for them to liaise at a certain level.
The fact is that even 20 people who cause trouble is what the media reports, not the 15,000 who watched the match and went home. My opinion is that there is a mindset which has developed between many active fans of ‘us vs them’ that actually can increase the likelihood of trouble not lessening it. The FFA through the use of Hatamoto and the like seems to side with some in the anti-football camp that active support is problematic and ‘anti-family’ (whatever that means).
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:15am | Report comment
Gweeds
I agree with many that there is a tendency for mainstream media to almost seek out the slightest bit of trouble at a soccer game.
I also think we have to say that there are groups of 20 or so young males at some games (not all), who go to games as a group with the sole intention of causing some mischief.
You’re right that in the context of 15,000 spectators, that’s nothing, and you are very likely to never come across those 20 dickheads.
But by the same token, those 20 dickheads can’t be ignored.
We need to separate out the active support (a good thing), from the small minority dickheads.
David V. said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:27pm | Report comment
Pippinu has it right, as usual.
My experience of football is that worldwide, in places where the game is king, you do come across people from all walks of life supporting the game. You come across dickheads, sure, but it’s not worth bothering about because the mass of football support is so large, you can just lose yourself in it and never think about it again.
In Australia, it’s different. The football community, which includes everyone who supports and plays the game, is a more easily defined entity, is not so large, so there is a higher likelihood that people know each other. I sure do, as a result of my travels to Central Coast, Brisbane, Adelaide, and so forth. In fact, those who regularly post on HAL forums are very likely to meet each other in real life, an experience I have had on more than one occasion.
In such a community, the prevalence of a particular kind of fan with particularly undesirable traits is far more discomforting. It has to be weeded out and not tolerated, for the good of the game.
David V. said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:30pm | Report comment
Pippinu is right here.
In most countries where football is king, the game has all walks of life following it, you come across dickheads sure but they are never prevalent and you can forget about it.
Not so in Australia where the football community isn’t so large, there is a high likelihood that people in this community actually know each other. Hence I know (and am known to) the fanbases of a few A-League clubs. Therefore, the prevalence of a particular kind of fan with particularly undesirable traits is very discomforting.
David V. said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:50pm | Report comment
Sorry for the repeat- the comment didn’t show right away so I assumed it didn’t get through
LeftArmSpinner said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:34am | Report comment
’cause many of them are. they think it is cool to consider and behave as though a game of sport is more important than anything else in the world, and inflict their views on those around them wont dont share their obsessive and anti social ideas and behaviours. I speak from experience, first hand experience at a game while I was with 4 kids and trying to like the A-League. Covered in beer, assaulted and needing a police escort to the car…………
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
LAS – that sounds like some serious shit – looks like we missed that one on the news!!
AndyRoo said | September 23rd 2009 @ 12:07pm | Report comment
That’s a pretty distressing story to hear
Gweeds said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:01pm | Report comment
And I speak from experience too. I’ve gone to many A-League matches in Melbourne (and one in Adelaide) with my 10 year old (and when he was younger) and in the ‘South end’ supporters area and never had any problems. In fact the scariest thing he saw were the riot police and their truncheons.
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:07pm | Report comment
I’ve never come across a problem at the Dome – with either Aussie rules or soccer.
In fact, one time I saw a game with redb, against Perth last season (when we hammered them 4-0).
One of the funniest things we saw was the visiting supporters section, with about six Perth fans, and about ten policemen surroudning them!!
I’m not sure if they were there to make sure they behaved themselves or to make sure they weren’t targeted by anyone.
They looked pretty harmless to me.
AndyRoo said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
Sound like they were there to keep them company.
Midfielder said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:50pm | Report comment
Gweeds
Can not post to much … see my next post to all..
But in very simple terms I believe that the FFA & HE need to sit down together and agree on a acceptable code of behaviour … This code then be made public for all media organisations and people coming to football matches so as they know what to expect … takes a lot of head out of the problem …
Midfielder said | September 23rd 2009 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
Hi All
Will not be posting for a while… in getting ready for the World Masters I over did it a bit a few weeks back … To fully recover for the games I need to take all stress off certain parts of my back… meaning sitting in front of a computer screen and typing…
So essential work only .. and read computer screen in a standing position… so I will keep reading and return when I can..
I have an article I will be sending in today on the future media … but will hardly respond… hope you enjoy it..
md said | September 23rd 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
Admittedly all you Victory fans are a bunch of dodgy so and so’s that need constant watching. I wouldn’t trust any of you with as much as a half-drunk schooner of light beer, frankly. I mean Ben Buckley would know what’s needed – he’s Victorian after all.
That aside, I think we should get to know our spooks. Maybe interview them. A day in the life of an A-league spook would be a good Roar column! A photo with a couple of them and perhaps even BB himself.
Great work Gweeds.
Cheers
md
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
Although, let us not forget that Ben Willing himself earned some notoriety for leading a rabble through the streets of Melbourne a few years back!!
md said | September 23rd 2009 @ 2:30pm | Report comment
I didn’t know that Willing played for Footscray.
Pippinu said | September 23rd 2009 @ 2:54pm | Report comment
Actually, I vaguely recall him saying that he had played aussie rules at some point during his life.
But on this occasion, he led the noisiest, largest, most menacing gathering ever assembled, perhaps bigger than all the Vietnam protests combined.
Simmo said | September 24th 2009 @ 1:57pm | Report comment
according to Richard Hinds in the SMH. I remember the article.
DiCanio said | September 23rd 2009 @ 2:52pm | Report comment
clubs liase with their supporters, ffa liases with clubs
this is your dialogue
This spook nonsense is out of order. Time to form the anti-spook brigade and start keeping tabs on this lot and creating our own set of files.
FFA I am disappointed
jimbo said | September 23rd 2009 @ 11:30pm | Report comment
These people operate in all venues – stadiums, pubs, clubs, 21st parties, whatever and are there for everyones benefit as long as you’re not out to hurt others.
Football fans pay their money and are entitled to have fun and generally very well behaved and we have no problem letting off steam and enjoying ourselves.
Just a precaution in all parts of society for the very small majority who go to these venues with other intentions and their anti-social idea of fun.
I wish there were more of them at cricket and NRL games I’ve been to, to deal with some of the drunken idiots we’ve had to confront over the years.
Ryan Steele said | September 29th 2009 @ 3:51pm | Report comment
Regarding the comments about Aleks; in all fairness to him, he’s not actually the spokesperson for the Red Army/Adelaide United Supporters Group.
As for the crowds, it’s a serious problem, when there are the small few bad eggs that give everyone else a poor reputation. I have a love/hate relationship with any Adelaide – Melbourne fixtures, for that reason. The games are great, because of the rivalry, the build-up is fantastic, but while a lot of supporters are good to talk with (having met/known several), there are always those that are out to cause trouble. For both sides, at that.
The small few Melbourne supporters that I spoke with, after that game, were shocked that their own supporters could be the way they were, that night.
In those games, I always expect flares in the stadium, particularly from the Melbourne end, even though they’re not allowed in the stadium, and I’m pretty much over it. It’s all well and good that those select few people like flares, but in the instances they’ve thrown them on the ground, and at players/supporters, it just becomes too much.
I’ve seen discussion about Hatamoto from certain supporters, in the past, but haven’t given it much attention. I personally don’t see it as a way to eliminate colour, but just to find a way to contain the problem supporters. If it means finding out who those people are, then so be it.
The A-League is as much for families as it is for individuals.