Is Robbie Deans still the Wallabies’ Messiah?
Roar Guru By Rusty, 24 Jun 2010 Rusty is a Roar Guru
- Tagged:
- ARU, New Zealand, robbie deans, Rugby Union, RWC2011, Springboks, wallabies
Australian Wallabies Coach Robbie Deans, center, talks to players Matt Giteau, left, and Stirling Mortlock during the captain's run at Eden Park in Auckland, New Zealand, Friday, Aug. 1, 2008. Australia will play against New Zealand on Saturday. AP Photo/NZPA, Wayne Drought
Now in the third year of his coaching term, I thought I would play the devils advocate and ask – are the ARU getting their money’s worth on their much hyped coaching import?
There is no denying the pedigree of his track record with the Crusaders, and the All Blacks up until their 2003 RWC exit.
But the big question remains, can/or is he having the same impact on the Wallabies?
Casting an eye over the performance of the Wallabies to date, the answer would have to be no.
Performance under the Deans regime.
Overall: Played 31, Won 17, Losses 13, Draws 1 – 54.8%
Home: Played 15, Won 11, Losses 4 – 73.3%
Away: Played 14, Won 6, Losses 7, Draws 1 – 42.9%
I think that’s a pretty average level of performance from a country that was until recently cemented in the top three in the world.
For reference in terms of peer review in the same timeline.
New Zealand: Played 31, Won 25, Losses 6 – 80.6%
South Africa: Played 28, Won 20, Losses 8 – 71.4%
The major pain on the ledger has been through the playing of fellow SANZAR countries in the Tri-Nations.
Overall: Played 12, Won 4, Losses 8 – 33.3%
Home: Played 6, Won 3, Losses 3 – 50%
Away: Played 6, Won 1, Losses 5 – 16.7%
Wrapped within these statistics is also a very large gorilla in an All Black jersey clutching to a now seven game winning streak dating back to August 2008.
On the plus side, he has managed a win in South Africa, which is something his predecessors were unable to do.
Unfortunately, that has also been the only away win in the competition, and with the RWC around the corner and across the Tasman, this surely is a large concern.
Added to this, we can also heap the first loss to Scotland in 27 years, the third ever loss to England on home soil, and the largest margin of loss by a Wallaby side.
If it’s not the coach then is it the personnel? Given the zero to hero player a minute syndrome in Australia, surely not?
Personally, I think there are some very good, world class players within the ranks. Just something isn’t setting them cohesively alight, and on the path to the top of the echelon.
Perhaps it’s a psyche thing, with a conflict in the New Zealand versus Australian approach?
Or maybe it’s adapting to the master coaches’ vision that is taking time.
It took Jake White four years to win a World Cup, Clive Woodward seven, and Graham Henry is still trying. So there is still time, but it is running preciously short for Deans, the messiah, and his merry disciples.
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June 24th 2010 @ 8:32am
LeftArmSpinner said | June 24th 2010 @ 8:32am | Report comment
Very good analysis. But the first question is: what is the chicken and what is the egg????
Is it deans not preparing the players properly or is it the players letting the coach down with wobbly performances?
For me, it starts with the players. they have let Deans and their supporters down. Deans has a trackrecord of success that cannot be questioned, sometimes with young teams and sometimes without his stars (Carter and McCaw etc)
It therefore all comes down to the players. What the numbers dont address is the player mind set (culture) or the situation inherited by each of the coaches being compared to Deans.
Deans inherited a mess, a big mess. His squad are seemingly incapable of stringing several wins together. Why??? Spiro has it right. soft forwards and lazy backs. In other words, Cultural.
have a look at the conveyor belt: most come from private schools. the core of this is GPS in Syd. they play in an 8 team comp, one of whom has withdrawn, HIgh School, several who are just not that interested or competent, Grammar, Scots and Newington, the biggies: Kings, Joeys, Riverview and Shore. none of these schools play in any of the other competitions such as the Waratah Shield.
So, the biggies play three serious games a year. You can add the rep season against CAS and CHS. Kings: 12 players; Scots 9; Riverview 9; Joeys: 8 of 55 players selected.
Here are the results:
COMBINED GPS RUGBY RESULTS v CAS & CHS, PLAYED AT NEWINGTON COLLEGE, 22 JUNE.
GPS 3RD XV 54
J Reardon 3, D Walford 2, J Graham, B Curtis, F MacDonald tries D Walford 5 goals J O’Connor 2 goals
Def CHS 3rd XV 7
B Askew try R Hodge goal
GPS 2nd XV 33
J McCormack 3, B Roods, S Dunbar tries S Dunbar 4 goals
Def CAS 2nd XV 5
J Grant try
GPS 1st XV 32
B Killingworth 2, T Donlan, M Hulme, B Lenehan tries B Lenehan goal, pen E Wylie goal
Def CAS 1st XV 10
J Harris try T Mitchell goal, pen
So, despite only playing 3 tough games a season, GPS can still walk all over both CAS and CHS!!!!!
A select few will get to play at State and Aust. schoolboy levels.
Then they spend a few years in the club system, colts then grade. This is tougher, but the dye is already cast. These players have been playing soft rugby for too long to change. So, unless you are a Horne or Ioane type, a naturally physically aggressive combative player who also have speed, the game is already over for the Wallabies.
June 24th 2010 @ 11:08am
Bob Mcgregor said | June 24th 2010 @ 11:08am | Report comment
Hey Leftie – as an old Scots former player – but like Farr-Jones only represented 2nd grade while a student [but I always said behind the great Ken Catchpole] I have to take issue with you about calling Scots one of the also rans of the Sydney GPS Rugby competition. Are you aware that Scots put Joeys to the sword in the opening round? Admittedly, it doesn’t happen often but it did happen. I believe Scots and Newington are a few rungs above Grammar and not far behind the others. Although they haven’t won many GPS titles they have produced many Wallabies. and surely that’s how they should be judged.
One of the major problems is alternate winter sports are now embraced, so soccer now gets a guernsey. Such is the case now at Scots. Riverview has a very vibrant AFL group – ex Swan Leo Barry played centre in Riverview’s Rugby team but AFL whenever possible.
Furthermore the playing pool is no more than it was when I attended in the 1950′s and now it’s diluted by soccer.
As to the additional games the GPS lads play – in the recent past the CHS teams belted the combined GPS side but once the 4 term format was introduced it ruined the competition and prior form was turned on its head. Now the representative teams – I believe – are selected before the GPS competition starts. In the past it was scheduled at the end of the season, which was also fairer and selections were better.
On balance the Combined High schools representative team, if selected at the end of the Waratah Shield competition, would be a far more formidable force if it then played the Combined GPS selected at the same time – as happened in my era. We can blame the 4 term school format for its demise.
June 25th 2010 @ 10:49am
Karlos said | June 25th 2010 @ 10:49am | Report comment
Hey guys – get off your high school soap boxes. Seriously…
June 24th 2010 @ 8:43am
warrenexpatinnz said | June 24th 2010 @ 8:43am | Report comment
I wouldn’t call Deans the messiah but he is a very astute coach with a plan to win the RWC 2011. He was employed under the directive to do that, idealy pick up some trophies on the way but lifting Bill is O’Neils must do for Deans.
To the knockers, the one night supporters of the Wallabies there must be an appreciation of the senior players out injured, and we aren’t talking about journey men, we are talking about players near the best, if not the best in their respective positions internationaly.
Palu, Horwill, TPN, Moore, Robinson which for me is the crux behind this seasons so so start. These players take a spluttering V6 to that of a V8. It is also unfortunate that Higginbotham and Humphries have been injured as these two guys would also, on Super 14 form be more than adequate players with Higginbotham a potential first choice Wallaby.
I have also posted previously like many others that Samo if fit would add a further dimension to the Wallabies forward play and I expect him to be in the TN squad after this Saturday’s game as Mumm will be playing for his spot, not only for the TN but for the NH tour which for me will be the RWC final squad barring a bolter from the Super 15.
You can be disappointed in the Wallabies in the lack lustre game in Sydney crying that they won’t get past the quarters in RWC2011, will get beaten by 20-30 in the TN is nonesense. Who were the experts tipping the ABs to fail through lack of depth, England to be in dissaray, France to be on the way up? All wrong and for the simple reason they are not the coach, they are not the players and they do not know what the blue print is laid out for each team.
Come the end of the NH tour and if the Wallabies have lost three games and injuries are known, only then will I question what they may acheive. Until then they always get my support, criticism where due but no burning of the jumper here, especially as it cost me $200 through duty free.
June 24th 2010 @ 9:01am
Mal said | June 24th 2010 @ 9:01am | Report comment
I’m a massive Robbie Deans fan. I don’t think there is any coach out there who could do better.
If we don’t improve its because of the cattle not he coaches.
Why can’t Bellamy coach NSW to victory over QLD, when he can win Premierships as coach?
Becasue he has Inglis, Smith, Cronc, Slater at club level but their on the otherside at state level.
More often then not players win games not coaches. NZ & SA have better players then us.
June 24th 2010 @ 10:55am
John P said | June 24th 2010 @ 10:55am | Report comment
Well said! Deans is easily the best coach that the ARU could have a got. When it happened I thought to myself (living across the ditch and hoping he would take the AB’s job out) what a steal. He is not only a great coach, but a developer of talent. He gains respect from his players, because not only of his coaching pedigree, but his playing career as an All Black, and Canterbury superstar (Ranfurly shield in the 80′s). Not only that he has a great ability to develop what other coaches see as mediocre players, a great example is Richi McGaw who was rejected by the Otago province after captaining Otago Boys HIgh, deans picked him up and turned him into one of the greats, Dan Carter was also just a specialist goal kicker at Christchurch Boys nothing much until he entered the Canterbury nursery, it is no surprise that SBW is moving into this system, that Deans created as Manager of the Crusaders franchise first and then as coach.
The culture in the Wallabies is disgusting, compare when the All Blacks put on their black jersey, as Dan Carter said “i love putting on the All Blacks jersey and going up a level” i cannot envisage one Wallabies player who does this, arguably some even go down or go missing at the test level. Deans is in a constant battle with apathetic players who think their ego is bigger than the Wallabies jersey and the mana that goes with that (Mortlock, Smith, Giteau, Dunning, Baxter)….it is no wonder that Deans has blooded so many young (an impressionable) players into the squad at the expense of the older generation of self-important Wallabies.
The other great thing about Deans is that being a foreigner he doesn’t buy into all the hype that the Australian media and many roarers puton some of our “world-class” team, he will just keep plugging away and try to change the attitude o f the squad. HIs major themes so far imho wrt to the Wallabies have been to;
1. Teach them to play what is in front of them (which has lead to more sensible pinning of the corners—just watch Dan Carter in any AB game and you can see him execute this Deans Nursery Classic)
2. Breed a winning culture (Deans developed a habit of winning at the Crusaders an ability to keep on winning)-still onbviously in progress at the wallabies.
3. The team is bigger than the individual,–George Smith, Dunning, Baxter.
4. Depth–unprecedented development of a wider squad a good year out from the RWC, that New Zealand has done in the past, but is now more reservedly doing through its NZ Barbarians v Maori system. Notably this is not producing results for Australia, other than experience for the wider squad (they will be better for it).
FInally, pet grievance, get rid of Mumm, he is a ghost on the field.
Cheers
June 24th 2010 @ 11:24am
Sylvester said | June 24th 2010 @ 11:24am | Report comment
One point: I don’t think McCaw was rejected by Otago, he came to Canterbury to attend university (Lincoln). He was already a star of the NZ age-group teams, so it’s unlikely the southerners would have disregarded him.
Also, I doubt Carter was “nothing much” before joining the Canterbury nursery. He was in the NZ U21s in 2002 – before his provincial debut.
June 24th 2010 @ 4:10pm
katzilla said | June 24th 2010 @ 4:10pm | Report comment
Wow way to over state Robbie Deans effect on Canterbury rugby lol.
They were a total back water province before he came along……………………
June 24th 2010 @ 9:22am
Rusty said | June 24th 2010 @ 9:22am | Report comment
Haha $200, bit steep!? Anyways Im not having a swing at this season – Im talking about the performance to date over the two years Deans has been manning the pumps. We shall see what becomes of this year with the current injury toll but given every other one has got off to a flyer before the tri-nations – does this mean this one should automatically be written off? No, injuries are part of the picture but its not going to get any easier and Deans is going to need to instill some mental steel into these guys or come next year it wont matter.
June 24th 2010 @ 10:03am
formeropenside said | June 24th 2010 @ 10:03am | Report comment
Deans is proving to be an average coach so far, no more and no less. A part of the problem lies in his selection choices, which have been pretty poor, and unrelated to actual on field performance. Every coach has favourites, but some of the decisions made have been incredible in recent times. Mumm is poor, but we cant drop him as we have no other options, as no Van was selected in the squad and Deans did not want to gamble on Simmons or Douglas. Baxter believers can make the same point about Ma’afu (although I would have had Greg Holmes in the squad ahead of Cowan instead).
Poor squad choice and poor selections leads to poor performance.
June 24th 2010 @ 10:07am
jacko said | June 24th 2010 @ 10:07am | Report comment
I dont think Deans (or any other level coach) can be blammed for players who arnt mentally tough enough and fold when it gets a bit difficult for a 20min period in a game. I’d suggest too many wallaby players havent had it tough enough in their youth and have no killer instinct.
June 24th 2010 @ 10:49am
sixo_clock said | June 24th 2010 @ 10:49am | Report comment
In Rugby Union, the coach has an a miniscule influence on the game and that is the ideal. Those who have watched each of the games Dingo has coached would struggle to say that his contribution caused this or that or the other error, mistake or misjudgement. The coach merely ensures the readiness in (a) fitness (b) skills (c) analysis of the oppositions game.
In each of the Dingo-Wallaby games I have watched win or lose there were elements of the game which I felt the Wallabies have not achieved a standard of professionalism of which they can be proud. In other words he has had to work with the bodies he has and very few current Wallabies would be in Australia’s all-time best team, though they are welcome to change that if they can.
Dingo is solid as a rock as far as what any team requires from a coach. Do we have a standout homegrown coach? Probably only one and he does not want the job. Lets see what happens after his first season back in the Super(15).
June 24th 2010 @ 10:54am
Short-Blind. said | June 24th 2010 @ 10:54am | Report comment
Timely post Rusty – been thinking about this lately. I have been a big fan of Deans thus far but am now concerned about his progress. Some observations:
1. He inherited a poor Wallaby culture to fix – a difficult job but he has stuck to the task and real culture change is evident although he has not been able to achieve consistent high performance which was his trademark at the Crusaders. This comes down mostly to cattle, some selection issues and the good points raised above by LAS and Jacko about the Aus rugby pipeline which just does not have enough layers and competition to breed the nasty piggies we need. Imagine if we had the QLD SOO forwards attitude and aggression against the blacks!
2. He seems to have improved depth in the backs by picking/backing various emerging talents BUT has not been able to do the same thing in the forwards. Mumm and some others were outplayed by various other S14 aussi forwards but still get picked. Needs the get more adventurous in this space.
3. He never seems to use his bench well at all. Often bringing on people late in the game when the dye is cast. Whether this is a character building technique i’m not sure but he needs to be prepared to use the match day 22 much better in future. Why he didn’t drag Genia last week is beyond me.
4. Unfortunately he choice of captain in rocky was not a good one. I said earlier this year he should not be picked on S14 form and this has not changed by his recent outings. He is not a natural leader as evidence by Pocock doing more talking/motivating etc during the course of play and rocky does not seem to have the on-field presence to change team tactics when needed. A good captain would have noticed Gits poor kicking last week and given JOC or QC that shot.
All in all RD has been a great influence on oz rugby but he walked into a sport in OZ that just does not have the depth of talent, institutions and cultural groundings that it has in his homeland. When he gets the best Aussi forward pack on the field they will do well but without more forward development I cannot see him winning more trophies in the near future. I hope I am wrong.
June 24th 2010 @ 11:50am
Even looser said | June 24th 2010 @ 11:50am | Report comment
Very little there that I can argue with.
I do however feel sorry for Deans at times. It must be so frustrating to sit up there in the coach’s box and watch your team just fail to do the simple things that you speak about and practice at training.
Speaking of Depth, this is my take on Rugby in Oz – ‘On the surface we seem deep but deep down we’re actually pretty shallow’.
June 24th 2010 @ 11:05am
sheek said | June 24th 2010 @ 11:05am | Report comment
There’s nothing wrong with the coach. In fact, it wouldn’t matter if you employed the greatest coach in the world (who???).
I’m with Leftie on this. Spiro’s article in the SMH was spot on. Australian rugby needs to harden up. Our youth team was thrashed by NZ recently, yet the front-row was heavier than the Wallabies. But it meant nought.
Our structures are all wrong, & until we change that, our performances at the top end will continue to be inconsistent. We don’t have to re-invent the wheel, simply adopt the best practices of NZ & SA. Even Australian cricket provides us with an example close to home.
At secondary schools level, get rid of GPS, CAS, etc – it’s elitist, exclusive rubbish. Divide all the Sydney rugby playing schools into zones or districts. Get the schools to play about 12-16 or so solid games a year. Ditto NSW Country.
Find out the best schools in Sydney & NSW Country, then find out the best schools in Qld, ACT, etc. Have the best play the best to find the champion rugby school in Australia. Give the 16-18 year olds tough competition to prepare them for post school.
Again, using Sydney as a starting example, reduce the 12 premier clubs x 7 grades down to 10 x 4 district clubs, based on genuine geographical, demographic areas. The days of amateur social playing at Randwick or Gordon or Easts or Norths, is gone.
The district premier rugby clubs will now be professional aspirational. If you want a social game of rugby, join a subbies club. All subbies clubs will be feeders to their respective district club.
Universities, Old Boys, Brothers, GPS (Grammar), Old Collegians, Colleagues, Associates, etc are not professional aspirational district clubs. They qualify as amateur social suburban clubs.
Implement a national domestic comp of perhaps 8 teams initially. I suggest provincial to tie in with super rugby. But I’ll accept national club.
Everything is designed then to deliver regular, quality players in depth to the Wallabies. From juniors to secondary schools, to suburban amateur/social clubs to district professional/aspirational clubs to national comp teams & super rugby, to the Wallabies.
Along the way, budding first class players (provincial & test) get the hard, competitive rugby desperately required to mould them at the professional level.
It’s not rocket science, it’s not re-inventing the wheel. It’s a tried & true process used by the most successful sports in each country in the world.
June 25th 2010 @ 8:19pm
mick said | June 25th 2010 @ 8:19pm | Report comment
Mate,
Even better get the teachers at schools to bring back corporal punishmet and toughen the little blighters up!
June 24th 2010 @ 11:21am
Katipo said | June 24th 2010 @ 11:21am | Report comment
It wouldn’t matter who was coaching the Wallabies – international rugby is won up front and the current tight 5 isn’t up to international standard. Injuries have amplified this issue. No coach can have a consistent answer to that at test level.
“When the team wins it’s the players. When the team loses it’s the coach. You get used to it”, said a soccer coach say on TV the other night…
June 24th 2010 @ 12:47pm
Mal said | June 24th 2010 @ 12:47pm | Report comment
Exactly. Look at our tight five.
1. Ben Daley. We’ll be great but is 21 years old in a job where you should be in late 20s, early 30s. Doing well but a complete novice.
2. Saii Faingaa. Pretty boy and physically unremarkable. Really would Eng, SA or NZ pick such a softy in the front row.
3. Ma’afu. Fat and no more then club footballer. Wouldn’t make the reserves bench of any English premiership team.
4. Mumm. Unremarkable physical speciman, Poor musccle defination, mediocre hieght. Very weak mentally and with zero aggession or in your face agro. A soft, Sydney private school, mild mannered accoutnant. An embarressment to our country. Compare him to the grissled, tough nuts the leading countries choose, Brad Thorn, Bakkies Botha, Simon Shaw, Victor Matfield, Paul O’Connell, Courtney Lawes. No wonder we get slaughtered in the close encounters. Further more he has no skill either. Witness 2 dropped balls against England in Perth when we where in attack and schoolboy defensive read in 2nd test.
5. Sharpe, Seagull who hates the close exchanges.
Solution we need Horwill, McMeniman, Heenan and Vickerman back.
NOTE TO AUSTRALIAN RUGBY DIRECTORS. FANCY PLAY NEVER, EVER WINS BIG MATCHES. BRUTE STRENGTH, DIRECT RUNNING AND BULL HEADED DESIRE AND AGGRESSION WIN BIG GAMES. PICK A TIGHT 5 WHO CAN DO THESE THINGS.
June 24th 2010 @ 1:28pm
ForceFan said | June 24th 2010 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
agree with your point about Mumm, but surely you would have noticed the change in Sharpe’s play over the last season.
June 24th 2010 @ 1:52pm
Rusty said | June 24th 2010 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
have to agree with you here – I’m notso big fan of Sharpe over the last few years but he has lifted his game this season and cemented himself as the premier lock in Australia.
June 25th 2010 @ 8:24pm
mick said | June 25th 2010 @ 8:24pm | Report comment
Bring back Steve Finnane and Simon Poedivon!
Two hard nuts that knew what the game was about!
And where the hell is the next Mark Loane………..he went to SouthAfrica to play with Natal in the hardest comp in the world……………..unlike our soft centred wallabies who have no idea of the hard yards!
Pull a few kids out of 3rd grade………………give them a sniff and they will take a yard!
Remember Phil Kearns from Randwick from 3rd grade to Wallaby……………….50 plus tests………wallaby captain……….hooker …………..and gave it to Fitzy in a few tests!
That is the passion we need………………not softies like Giteau missing a goal in front and smiling about it!