Super Rugby conference system lacks credibility
When the Super Rugby conference system began I had a feeling this format wouldn’t provide the best way to present us with the strongest teams in the Southern Hemisphere showpiece.
When you look at the motivation behind the conference system, some of the justifications made sense. – it would allow for more local derbies, more television viewers and larger gate revenue.
Yet to me this sounded like a cop out, where money was the sole motivator for expansion of the hugely successful Super XIV.
I also wasn’t convinced having six teams qualify for the play offs made any sense.
Why have this? Just to keep all countries more interested in the final weeks of the Super Rugby competition?
Consider this; since 1996 Australia has missed out on the semi finals in 1998, 2007 and 2009. South Africa has missed out in 2002 and 2003. Meanwhile, New Zealand has never missed out on a semi final spot.
But isn’t that the nature of competitive sport? You are either good enough to make it to the top or you are not.
When you consider the current conference system it is clear that in both years all three countries would have been represented in the semi finals anyway.
However my biggest concern with the new system is the fact that teams won’t be playing every other team in the tournament. Not until I started digging up records and results of the past two years did I notice how much of an impact this would make on the tournament.
I took the top nine teams in both years as it proved this year there is a marked difference in the wins gained by the top nine log leaders and the bottom teams (in 2011, however, the separation was after the top eight teams).
I compared the number of matches each of the teams have played against the top nine teams and their results based on that.
2011
Reds – played seven – won five; log points gained from the top nine teams = 23
Crusaders – played 11 – won seven; log points gained from the top nine teams = 36
Blues – played 12 – won seven; log points gained from the top nine teams = 33
Stormers – played seven – won four; log points gained from the top nine teams = 19
Sharks – played eight – won four; log points gained from the top nine teams = 18
Bulls – played nine – won four; log points gained from the top nine teams = 18
Highlanders – played nine – won four; log points gained from the top nine teams = 18
Waratahs – played seven – won two; log points gained from the top nine teams = 13
Hurricanes – played nine – won one; log points gained from the top nine teams = 11
2012
Chiefs – played 10 – won six; log points gained from top nine teams = 27 (Hurricanes result pending)
Stormers – played eight – won six; log points gained from top nine teams = 26
Crusaders – played nine – won five; log points gained from top nine teams = 26
Sharks – played nine – won five; log points gained from top nine teams = 25
Bulls – played nine – won four; log points gained from top nine teams = 21
Reds – played eight – won four; log points gained from top nine teams = 18
Brumbies – played seven – won two; log points gained from top nine teams = 15
Hurricanes – played nine – won three – log points gained from top nine teams = 15 (Chiefs result pending)
Highlanders – played 11 – won four; log points gained from top nine teams = 20
In the years prior to the conference system, every team would play every other team based on alternative years, home and away. This would have meant each team would play eight matches against the other top-nine log leaders.
Looking at the “new and improved” conference system it could be as many as 12 matches and as little as seven matches. That in my view is a farce.
How does one compute the credibility of a system with – for want of a better word – “unfairness”?
The main reason for this is New Zealand has by far the strongest conference. Hence, with four of their teams being part of the top-nine log leaders, they will inevitably play six matches against top teams just in their conference.
South Africa, with three teams, will play four and Australia, with two teams, only 2 matches.
Total matches played by New Zealand teams against top nine teams = 80
Being represented by four teams each year provides an average of 10 per season.
Total matches played by SA teams against top nine teams = 50
Being represented by three teams each year provides an average of 8.25 matches per season.
Total matches played by Australian teams against top nine teams = 29
Being represented by two teams each year provides an average of 7.25 matches per season.
The reality is the conference system is not a fair reflection of the opponents faced by each team.
Some conferences are lacking depth and quality teams.
My conclusion is that Super Rugby may be financially more lucrative, but as a competition it has much less credibility.
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July 11th 2012 @ 4:34am
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 4:34am | Report comment
-Technically your right but we don’t live in a perfect World and one needs a better solution.
-The reality is this:
-Local derbies in all sports sell, and that’s what fans want. More local derbies in calendar season. And the conference format offers that option, as well as flexibility to expand each conference or offer new ones eg Asia, the amricas eg USA/Canada/Argentin/europe eg russia
-But what is the alternative:
-Scrap super rugby, and go back to currie cup, NPC, and a ARC . Each comp playing a longer season. It would be more credible but , those comps don’t pay the bills on there own anymore and all the best talant would go to Europe.
-And we could say goodbye to things like the rugby championship, and regular All black and wallaby tests at home, rather than overseas in Europe.
-Super rugby is not natural regular season comp but in the SH these 3 nations don’t have a choice. And fans like local derbies and over the season super rugby ultimately makes more money this way by the conference system in tv ratings and crowds over a colander season. Than less local derbies. Fans much prefer to watch the Bulls VS Stormers play twice rather than once on a home and a way basis, than have to watch these teams play teams like the Highlanders and the force.
-local derbies sell in all sports comps , . Matches vs teams that live along way from you do not. And the complex thing is super rugby in it;s current format is played over 3 countries , all on big different timezones especially Aust/NZ with South africa.
-And georgrahically is a regular season comp with teams from the other side of the world competing in it. It is a domestic/regular season sports comp like no other. Played over such extreme geographic distance and timezones and different continents.
-So super rugby local derbies sell more tickets to games and tv ratings $$$$, and flexibility to expand conference.
What’s the 2nd option. Go back to less local derbies which equals less tv ratings $$$$, which will then lead to more players going to Japan and Europe, and less front lien All blacks, books, and wallabies staying.
-or do we just scrap super rugby and go back to a longer currie cup, NPC, and re-formatted ARC. Which will not be as profitable, and even higher numbers of players will go to Japan or Europe.
-So technically it does lack credibility in my opinion as well, but what is the better financial solution, as pro sport is about 1 thing making money.
July 11th 2012 @ 4:56am
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 4:56am | Report comment
-Same with merchandise, and tv sheduling. Merchandise like jerseys are now re-modelled all the time every year, and jerseys changed and re-modelled to maximise merchandise.
-The world cup the IRB scheduling helped teams with large populations $$$$, and didn’t help nations with small populations like Samoa or Tonga as they dint make as much money from tv ratings $$$$.
-The world cup the semi finals and grand final were played at NZ time 9pm. This late kick off was more favourable to get more tv viewers in other word higher tv ratings $$$$ in Europe.
-Bejing Olympics swimming finals were staged in morning not afternoon or evening, as it helped get high tv ratings in USA and Europe as more favourable timezones for them $$$$.
-Cardiff city blue birds have changed traditional blue jersey by the Asia owners to red jersey as red is color many people in Asia identify with and red jersey would sell more jerseys in merchandise sales $$$$.
-All Blacks are looking at possibility of putting sponsore logo on the middle in the team jersey to bring in more revenue
-So al in all pro sport and amatuer sport are different. . Pro sport values is about making money no 1 and amateur is more about more noble values.
-You can’t have it both ways in pro sport. If you never want to sacrifice credibility, traditions, fair scheduling etc.
-Don’t complain when the best players go and play in bigger regions or continents or nations, eg Japan and Europe, where there are higher tv ratings $$$$, and also when less money to build new stadiums $$$$ or keep the best coaches $$$$, which all cost money $$$.
-Just commercial reality we live in pro sport, it is a competitive environment and money talks and money comes no 1, whether anyone likes it or not. If one doesn’t like it don’t complain when bad things happen like less playing standard and less depth, and no new stadiums etc.
Otherwise go back to amateur rugby, if one wants to maintain credibility at all costs, just the choice and reality of pro sport industry.
July 11th 2012 @ 4:58am
biltongbek said | July 11th 2012 @ 4:58am | Report comment
Good points Johnno, however the Conference system in my view can work in a different guise.
Firstly the requirement for the bean counters are more local derbies.
The requirement for the credibility of the competition is a system that is fair to all conferences.
My suggestion is quite simple.
Have the conferences figth it out with an initial ‘preliminary round” whereby each conference fight it out for the top three qualifiers.
then let the top three teams compete in a Super 9′s on a round robin single round competition.
We want the top teams to play everyone before deciding the semi final spots.
With an expansion to 6 teams for each country that would mean 10 weeks.
The super 9′s will take and additional 8 weeks
Finals anotehr two weeks.
I mentioned this system before and there were mostly positive thoughts about it, except for what happens to the remianing nine teams that don’t qualify.
Some said nobody would be interested in a Plate/Cup roud for them, but I think there is nothing wrong with that system. It provides the lower teams an opportunity to play in the same format and a trophy to boot.
This will give SANZAR more matches, more revenue, and in my view is a fair reflection at the end of the day.
July 11th 2012 @ 1:10pm
Justin2 said | July 11th 2012 @ 1:10pm | Report comment
It aint going to work. TV ratings and gate takings for the “plate matches” will be awful.
Sanzar will make less money. No system is perfect but I think the current one is better than your suggestion and allows for growth, which will come from other countries entering the comp.
Quite frankly I dont think many fans are that aware of the fairness of the competition anyway. Generally speaking the best team will still have the chance to win. Can we ask for more than that?
July 11th 2012 @ 1:33pm
kingplaymaker said | July 11th 2012 @ 1:33pm | Report comment
Agreed: 1) European clubs have the money to put out plate matches in the second tier European competition, and have shorter distances: the SANZAR nations do not, have to travel long distances and would be completely bankrupt by it. Few watch the second rate dross in the European plate competition and with brutal competition from other codes no one at all would watch it is the southern hemisphere. No only that but in England and France they have so many teams that they have to cut down the numbers more for the Heineken Cup: in the Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Italy where there are a comparable number of teams to the SANZAR countries, all the teams play, so the comparison to the Heineken Cup is false.
2) A positive feature of Super rugby is that any team has a chance of winning a large-scale international competition. A plate would destroy this.
July 11th 2012 @ 1:44pm
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 1:44pm | Report comment
KPM i think euro rugby will move to super rugby in format with conferences. And maximising big market in europe but cutting out small areas but having good semi pro teams.
-So 6 teams from england, 4 from irleand, 2 each from scotland and wales
-6 from russia eventually
-6 from France of course
-A few from spain and portugal who are massively improving and a 2 from say ukraine, and a few from georgia and romania.
-3 from Germany and 3 form italy
This way you can extend the HEK cup with big level rugby and in big tv markets and high standard and conference it out
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/nov/11/rugby-union-violent-breakaway-premiership
July 11th 2012 @ 1:52pm
kingplaymaker said | July 11th 2012 @ 1:52pm | Report comment
Johnno an interesting point: SANZAR could have the most avant-garde format already, and the absence of private owners is the only thing making it look worse than it is.
On the other hand the number of teams in England and France is enviable: I think the SANZAR format with more teams and private ownership is a good mixture.
July 11th 2012 @ 1:58pm
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
I agree KPM europe are far more advanced and SANZAR could have the most avant-garde format.
July 11th 2012 @ 5:37am
mace 22 said | July 11th 2012 @ 5:37am | Report comment
your right I’ve thought this way from the begining of the con system. But that is what we’ve got so we have to live with it. The thing that need’s to happen is that each conference’s has to be more competitive with in themselves. Like the nz conference where four teams have the capacity to beat any other team with in there conference. At the moment nz has four teams, australia two and south africa three. So the four nz teams have eight certain points, australia 24, south africa 16 this year. So in summary south africa and australia don’t need to be competitve with nz ( but it would be better if they were ), just to be in there respective conferences to make it a fairer competition.
July 11th 2012 @ 9:03am
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
mania. I strongly disagree with you.
-NZ has advantage as it has good junior grassroots models that modern and competitive, and a storng 3rd tier ItM cup.
-Where as Australia, has an incompetent junior model and isolationist elitist junior model, no tv coverage of school boy rugby either or very limited in OZ. And australia has far bigger population. Blame Australia not NZ it is not there fault that the people who run Australian rugby are incompetent in junior business models, and junior grass roots models, as well as stronger 3rd tier comp than the shut e shield. NZ should not be penalised for being competent.
Jamie Joseph highlanders coach said he always found it amazing how much weaker school boy rugby is here and the attitude to playing less hard games per season and also the isolationist models were less helpful to producing good competitive rugby.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/05/24/the-sad-decline-of-gps-rugby-in-sydney-continues/
July 11th 2012 @ 9:14am
Coles said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:14am | Report comment
Australia has tv coverage of its GPS School Boy Rugby
July 11th 2012 @ 9:17am
mania said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:17am | Report comment
coles – whats GPS? global positioning system?
July 11th 2012 @ 9:18am
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:18am | Report comment
not on regula rbasis it does not. It wanted too tv networks, but headmasters rejected it saying they didn’t want to school boy rugby in OZ to become to professional. Only occasional matches are shown here.
July 11th 2012 @ 9:16am
mania said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:16am | Report comment
huh? what exactly of my post are u disagreeing with johnno. if anything i agree with the majority of what your saying here
July 11th 2012 @ 9:23am
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
More i meant with the unfair advantage of NZ being a stronger rugby nation, and with better grassroots and 3rd tier models, that unfair advantage is not there fault and the conference model can be a success just Australia has to change it’s models.
July 11th 2012 @ 9:55am
mania said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:55am | Report comment
again agree with u johnno. wasnt saying grassroots and ITM didnt have anything to do with it. just pointing out that this conf system puts NZ teams thru the fire more. if they survive then they come out as better teams…if they dont then they come out with a whole bunch of injuries
July 11th 2012 @ 10:05am
Johnno said | July 11th 2012 @ 10:05am | Report comment
yep makes sense mania good points i agree misunderstandings but you right .
July 11th 2012 @ 10:17am
mania said | July 11th 2012 @ 10:17am | Report comment
johnno – i think we’re agreeing to agree. very rare on roar
July 11th 2012 @ 5:43am
mania said | July 11th 2012 @ 5:43am | Report comment
tots agree biltongbek , but we need to get over this. if super ever expands into the u.s. argentina and the asian market then the only way to go forward is the conference system. it was introduced too early giving us this farce we have now but at least its getting tested before being intoduced to the wider world
one thing that i’m only just beginning to notice is the unfair advantage to nz. as unfair as this conference system is vs NZ sides its also meaning they have to perform at a higher level more often and are therefore getting better. the local derbies are now a higher level ITM cup where u actually get to see allBlacks participating. could this explain why NZ this season has more than its fairshare of high class rookies?
yeah it is harder for NZ teams but it also has less obvious advantages. injury tolls may be higher but our playing stocks have never been this plentiful and high quality
July 11th 2012 @ 6:21am
Geoff Brisbane said | July 11th 2012 @ 6:21am | Report comment
With supposed too much rugby on the players then the current system is flawed and also lets be honest it keeps the weakest conference in the mix when reality suggests they are not there on merit.Why can’t every team play each other once each season and the top 6 go into playoffs. Would decrease number of games players have along with Internationals etc.It’s not about providing more games it is about providing a competition that is accurate (unlike the stupid NRL) reality the S15 is like the stupid NRL. So agree BB the current format is and always was a joke that enables weak conferences to waltz into the finals.
July 11th 2012 @ 9:13am
reds fan said | July 11th 2012 @ 9:13am | Report comment
Geoff, for the administrators of the game who have to deal with keeping up with player payment demands and the requirements of basically a monopoly pay TV provider, it is about providing more games as a product for TV.
a couple points. Aus and NZ wanted more local derbies… i think the south africans were also in agreement on this. They know they get bigger crowds ($$$) and more TV viewers ($$$), hence they moved away from the play everyone once.
and then they looked at home/away within conference and play once against teams outside conference. this was discarded because the season is then too long. SA didn’t want Super rugby cutting into the Currie Cup timeframe (as they had already sold rights to that comp), and the Kiwi’s didn’t want to bring the start date forward. so this is the compromise.
the other consideration, and i recall the south africans raising this, was the cost of travel, and the time their teams spent out of the country on tour of Aus and NZ. this left their fans at home with long periods without home games and they felt it was restricting the attachment fans could make to the teams and the comp. the length of their (and the everyone else’s) tours would have been extended even further under the play everyone once criteria. Imagine an SA team that would to spend 5 weekends in a row every year away from their fans. we already have one long break now with the June test window. and the increased cost would have been a large financial burden.
anyway… (and this isn’t directed a you Geoff) I know its great to talk about fairness in this argument, but at some point people need to cut the administrators some slack, and acknowledge the cost and complexity of running a competition across such a wide geographical area with multuple, and quite out of sync, time zones.
July 11th 2012 @ 6:46am
Jerry said | July 11th 2012 @ 6:46am | Report comment
NZ has missed out on a semi-spot at least once – checked wiki and it was 2001. Semi-finalists were Brumbies, Sharks, Reds & Cats (!).
July 11th 2012 @ 6:49am
justsaying said | July 11th 2012 @ 6:49am | Report comment
New Zealand missed the finals in 2001, biltongbek – finalists that year were Brumbies, Sharks, Cats and Reds.
July 11th 2012 @ 6:49am
justsaying said | July 11th 2012 @ 6:49am | Report comment
Shot Jerry…
July 11th 2012 @ 7:04am
biltongbek said | July 11th 2012 @ 7:04am | Report comment
My apologies for the error, I checked so much info for this, it must have slipped through. It still proves though that the Competition brought through the best teams when everyone played everyone else.
July 11th 2012 @ 6:53am
BennO said | July 11th 2012 @ 6:53am | Report comment
biltongbek, I agree with you it’s not ideal and I also see the merit in your proposed two tier comp but I think it won’t be supported by the broadcasters who I think will want more certainty than that system provides.
I just wish they could go with the simplest solution to just hold a complete home and away season and be done with it.
July 11th 2012 @ 7:08am
biltongbek said | July 11th 2012 @ 7:08am | Report comment
Benno, that is in my opinion the best system to have home and away, the problem with that though is there are already to many teams, and home and away will mean 28 rounds of super rugby. As you say there is already too much rugby, hence my thoughts of keeping it to conference first and then super 9′s plus finals. This way at least it doesn’t involve more teams.
The other alternative is to start looking a 2 tiers, include one more team for each country, then have a Super 9′s with the historically best teams of the last decade and have them play home and away, 16 matches plus finals.
Add a second tier, and there can be promotion relegation.
This system will also work well when the americas etc join, could even go to three tiers.
July 11th 2012 @ 7:20am
nickoldschool said | July 11th 2012 @ 7:20am | Report comment
Completely agree with you biltong. Fairness and credibility have never been organisers priorities. Revenues are and they built a comp around that. many rugby supporters, particularly in australia, watch union ‘if their team plays’. They’d rather watch a poor waratahs-brumbies than a great chiefs v crusaders. hence the decision to give people what they want, local rugby, even if it means that the finalists may or may not be the 6 best teams of the comp.