Dingo Deans’ Wallabies stats (pt 1)
By The Crowd, 20 Jul 2012 The Crowd is a Roar Guru
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- All Blacks, robbie deans, Rugby Union, Rugby World Cup, Springboks, wallabies
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Robbie Deans showed he can win with the Wallabies win over Wales, but the Australian team has capitulated against the All Blacks (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)
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With the inaugural Rugby Championship dawning upon us, it is time to make some serious assertions about Robbie Deans’ tenure as Wallabies coach.
Many Wallabies fans are calling for an end to the Deans era, especially with Ewen McKenzie waiting in the wings.
Since taking over the reins in 2008, Deans has failed to deliver a Bledisloe Cup, which was expected by many.
Many of us also expected him to win last year’s World Cup.
The fact that Deans finally delivered a Tri-Nations title, for the first time in ten years, is little compensation for success-starved fans.
So what else has Deans actually achieved in this time? Does whitewashing the Grand Slam-winning Welsh count?
For many, strangely it does not.
What I hear is that we want to see more wins and we want to see more tries and Deans is not giving us enough of either.
So let’s delve deeper. If we look at his overall record, his win ratio stands at 62%.
In this edition, I’m going to look at this win ratio.
If we compare these numbers with his predecessors and other nations, we may be able to gauge whether this is a good or bad result.
If we compare Deans 62% overall win ratio with the Wallabies overall record of 52% we could suggest that Deans is doing relatively well. But we really need to look at win percentages in the modern age to make a better judgement. If we compare his 62% win ratio to the four years preceding his tenure, i.e. the 2004-2007 period, we see that the Wallabies had a win ratio of 59% during this period.
So he has made a slight improvement in winning matches at least.
To put both of these statistics in perspective, we continue to go back in time. If we use each four-year period between each professional World Cup we can make vital comparisons, because each period has a rebuilding phase and ends in relatively tight rugby in the pursuit of World Cup glory. The 2000-2003 period saw a 64% win ratio and, in the 1996-1999 period we see an historic 74% win ratio for the Wallabies.
If we continue to look back, to the amateur period, we see win ratios fluctuating between 73% during the 1992-1995 period, 63% in the 1988-1991 period and 70% in the 1984-1987 period.
If we make a comparison with the Mark Ella-era of 1980 to 1984, we’ll see another Deans failing in comparison. Or do we? Whoops, no, in that period the Wallabies only won 58% of tests.
So Deans’ win ratio is nothing special, but it’s also not an absolute disaster as some suggest. High profile losses to Samoa and Scotland have not helped his cause of course, despite that for two of these matches the side that ran out was full of second string players.
Maybe a better way to make judgement on Deans’ performance to date would be to compare his win ratios against New Zealand and South Africa in comparison to other periods.
If we start with South Africa we see something quite remarkable. Deans’ 2008-2011 period has been the single most successful period against South Africa in Wallaby history.
Deans’ Wallabies have lost only four of the 12 fixtures during his reign against the Springboks, which puts his win ratio against them at an incredible 67%. I say incredible because that is a better return against them than even the mighty All Blacks, who in the same period have only managed a 55% win percentage against the Boks.
If we go back in time again, our overall win ratio against the ‘Boks’ has been 42%. If we look at the entire period of the Tri-Nations, the Wallabies had only managed a 47% win ratio against the Springboks before Deans took over.
Therefore, Deans’ performance against the Springboks has arguably been his strongest and most unsung success.
So perhaps Deans has been making headway after all? Well, not when you look at our record against New Zealand.
Against the All Blacks, Deans has a very poor win ratio in comparison. It currently stands at 20%, which is actually 2% less than the previous four years and arguably why this upcoming Bledisloe is so important for Robbie Deans.
Historically of course, the Wallabies have a poor win ratio against the All Blacks. Australia’s overall record against them stands at a tick under 30% of wins. But since the game has gone professional, the Wallabies have a 33% win ratio against New Zealand.
Before that, in the sixteen-year period from 1980 to 1995, it was a higher 38%. This is what we really want to see. But even Deans must know that Australian rugby fans won’t be satisfied until we are consistently winning at-least 51% of matches against the World Champions.
We may never see that happen again. It once happened during a small period either side of the new millennium, and considering New Zealand’s dominance, we know it is unrealistic. But we can sure aim for it.
It is worth noting that Deans’ combined win ratio of 40% against New Zealand and South Africa is almost exactly the same as the overall Wallaby record of 41% across the sixteen year Tri-Nations period against these two rugby heavy weights.
It must be said that Deans’ 40% win ratio is a lot higher than the four years preceding his tenure. In this period, it was 31.5%.
Deans also has a 71% win record combined against France and the Home nations. This is 5% better than both the Wallabies overall test record against these sides (66%)and the Wallabies record against them since the game went professional (also 66%).
As the famous Lord Courtney once argued, ‘statistics are figures the simplest must understand and the astutest cannot wriggle out of.’
These statistics show that Robbie Deans has thus performed a lot better with our beloved Wallabies than most perceive.
However 2012 is the year to win back the Bledisloe, otherwise it will surely be time for a new coach.
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July 20th 2012 @ 2:16am
biltongbek said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:16am | Report comment
Whether it was Deans or the Australian team themsleves or a combination of the two, but what the Wallabies managed to do to the Springboks during the PDV era was too outsmart them.
In the last two years 2010/2011 especially the Bringbok game has stagnated to a point wher the Wallabies won something like 5 out of six.
So perhaps the Springboks’ inability to adapt has also aided/inflated Wallaby success.
July 20th 2012 @ 2:22am
BD said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:22am | Report comment
But if that’s the case why wasn’t the all blacks win ratio higher?
For some reason deans has the wood over the boks which the all blacks don’t have.
I wonder how the deans wallabies fare against th European heavyweights?
July 20th 2012 @ 9:23am
Bakkies said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:23am | Report comment
Deans has been able to get wins in South Africa which a lot of coaches of the Wallabies haven’t been able to do. Our fitness has been good against them but we need to win in Pretoria and Johannesburg which is our achilles over there. The Boks have been in decline since their big season in 2009 while the Wallabies have been building up a young side.
Against the All Blacks we have had a habit of blowing big leads due to fitness and lack of concentration in the second half of the matches. On several occasions we have had big half time leads but failed to score in the second half.
July 20th 2012 @ 4:47pm
The Werewolf said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
‘Deans also has a 71% win record combined against France and the Home nations. This is 5% better than both the Wallabies overall test record against these sides (66%)and the Wallabies record against them since the game went professional (also 66%)’
sorry I accidently left this out but added it later to the article.
July 20th 2012 @ 2:36am
biltongbek said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:36am | Report comment
During this time:
FRA 5/5
WAL 7/8
ENG 3/5
IRE 2/4 one draw
SCO 0/2
July 20th 2012 @ 4:48pm
The Werewolf said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:48pm | Report comment
good stats!
July 20th 2012 @ 2:36am
biltongbek said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:36am | Report comment
During this time:
FRA 5/5
WAL 7/8
ENG 3/5
IRE 2/4 one draw
SCO 0/2
July 20th 2012 @ 4:00am
SandBox said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:00am | Report comment
thanks for the article Werewolf, was very interesting.
I suppose what the numbers don’t show is frustration at the talent and potential of the side not being fully realised. We get close, but never completely there
“However 2012 is the year to win back the Bledisloe, otherwise it will surely be time for a new coach.”
ABs do look red hot. Would be a massive achievement to win the BC back from that side, let’s hope so
July 20th 2012 @ 7:02am
Riccardo said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:02am | Report comment
“We get close, but never completely there”
The fact of the matter is that the Wallabies’ achilles heal, even when a full compement is available for selection, remains their pack, specifically the tight five.
Even with a mercurial backline it’s difficult to succeed without front-foot ball.
That said, the Wallabies have a good back row and the 2 home fixtures represent their best opportunity in some time of regaining the Bledisloe.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:12am
mania said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:12am | Report comment
so so true riccardo – imho the problem with the wallaby’s starts with the front row. when they collaspe a scrum or get owned in any way they just give up instead of getting angry and fighting back. i’ve seen it a couple times when the scrum gets driven back. when the front row are getting up off the ground they’re hanging their heads. moore’s the only one that looks like theres still fight in him.
even when the AB’s were getting owned by the irish in the 2nd half of the 2nd test there was still fire in the forwards. OK the tight5 then may have been arogant thinking they should’ve been dominating by default but its an arogance of confidence.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:15am
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:15am | Report comment
Good point mania – and it won’t change if they keep picking the Waratahs’ front row – the Waratahs have been giving up all season. The Wallabies would be better off picking Holmes-Moore-Palmer with Slipper on the bench (at least they all try) and having someone pull them aside and tell them to try and demolish the pack rather than hold the scrum steady.
July 20th 2012 @ 12:56pm
jeznez said | July 20th 2012 @ 12:56pm | Report comment
I like that front row, RK. I think the Tahs guys can come back but they need to do a bit of work.
July 20th 2012 @ 8:19am
B-Rock said | July 20th 2012 @ 8:19am | Report comment
Sandbox – When RD took over the team was a shambles – talent levels were at very low levels. RD was the one who developed this talent (in the absence of the states), particularly in the back line. Now he gets criticised for not maximising the talent at his disposal. The fact is, we have a handful of world class players and not much depth so the talent and potential of the team appears higher than it really is IMO
He truly has a tough gig
July 20th 2012 @ 2:45pm
SandBox said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
I agree with you B-Rock, he has developed the talent. Wallabies are more exciting to watch for Deans
Comment was mostly about the potential versus the results. As Werewolf’s stats point out we are getting some good results, but not stand out results, and the exception is the ABs. It may be just a neighbourhood syndrome going against Dingo. We play Ab’s the most and we expect to beat them probably more than we should. Still think he has had enough time, but judging him on BC this year might be a bit harsh after seeing ABs demolish the Irish in 2/3 games
I didn’t take the 3N result too seriously last year. PDV was playing silly buggers with his team (remember Camp Stellenbosch), and we weren’t meant to play Abs until RWC final if we got there (with thanks to the Irish)
On another note, how does the squiggly line spell checker thing work? I keep getting a line for things like colour and neighbourhood? Is it the Roar doing this or settings on my PC?
July 20th 2012 @ 3:22pm
Cattledog said | July 20th 2012 @ 3:22pm | Report comment
SandBox, the default language is English US. Right click on the word and select language, then English Australian (if you have the Australian dictionary). You will then see that colour and neighbourhood are spelt correctly.
Your next post, however, will revert to US again. Someone more advanced maybe able to tell us how to maintain the Aust dictionary, but I think it’s a Roar thing??
July 20th 2012 @ 4:26pm
SandBox said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:26pm | Report comment
Ok thanks, for those of you who use Google Chrome, I changed the language to English (Oz) in advanced settings and it seems to work now
July 21st 2012 @ 11:15am
cm said | July 21st 2012 @ 11:15am | Report comment
I entirely agree!
July 20th 2012 @ 4:50pm
The Werewolf said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:50pm | Report comment
Sandbox cheers for your comments.
If we can keep injury free I can see the wallabies winning 2 matches against the All Blacks.
We played the best from the NH this June and they played a very poor under strength Ireland.
July 20th 2012 @ 9:26pm
SandBox said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:26pm | Report comment
Np, I hope you’re right. ABs often put under-strength teams to the sword, but a team that takes it to them is a different story – Ireland in 2nd test proves that.
Still think there is a lot of press (maybe started by JON) with regard Deans future connected to this years BC. Whilst I think he has had long enough now, overall picture should still be looked at. E.g. if we were to lose 1/3 to ABs but continue good form against Boks, after beating 6N champions 3/0, would say he’s done enough for at least 1 more year.
Although, if you want to give Link a chance, does he deserve more than 2 years in charge before RWC 2015?
July 20th 2012 @ 4:31am
matthew said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:31am | Report comment
Interesting article. It seems Dingo is the Clown Killer who ruthlessly exposed De Villiers tenure as coach. It’s worth noting that De Villiers often played experimental or less than full strength sides against the Wallabies but against the All Blacks reverted to his tried and tested first team. That explains the Boks relative success against the All Blacks. I’m certainly anxious for the Boks to get back to winning ways against the Wallabies- especially as it seems we are no longer rated in some quarters.
July 20th 2012 @ 5:24am
mania said | July 20th 2012 @ 5:24am | Report comment
what gets me bout some ppls arogance is expecting deans to bring home the wc. kiwi’s wanted it but never assumed that ther AB’s would automatically get it, but i admit that this is a lesson learnt over 20 years.
bledisloe streak was pretty bad already when deans took over. in fact when deans took over it gave the AB’s even more incentive to hold onto it.
while i dont agree with the finger pointing at deans (players also have to take ownership of their abysmal performances on the field) i think deans has outgrown the aus coach jersey and needs to move on for the sake of his career. wallaby’s are ruining deans chances of getting the AB’s coaching spot ever again.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:06am
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:06am | Report comment
The problem with the world cup is that the Wallabies entered the tournament as the no.2 ranked side in the world with probably the easiest route to the final of any team in the tournament and blew it – and they blew it because Deans doesn’t make smart decisions. Wins by the Wallabies under his tenure usually come from intensity rather than tactics.
The statistics certainly do make interesting reading, but delving deeper into the facts behind those statistics makes things seem less rosy.
Deans longest winning streak is his first 5 matches as coach when the team wasn’t his, it was the one he’d inherited. Once he stamped his style of play on the team when has been delivered is inconsistency.
The notion that playing fringe Wallabies against Samoa and Scotland excuses losses is incredibly naive. Does anyone think second-string All Blacks would lose those tests? It just isn’t good enough.
Most damning to my mind though isn’t results but performance – coaching is about communication and Deans can’t do it. It is as simple as that. His ability to coherently frame an idea is non-existent. Nor can he manage a bench on game day – does anyone believe for a second that the more astute use of the bench during the Welsh series had anything to do with Deans – it is Tony McGahan’s presence that has finally seen the Wallabies using 22 players instead of 15 in a match.
When Deans first took over the job and allowed journos into his training sessions, they all went looking for his secret – there wasn’t one, Deans doesn’t do anything special, he is a coach who relies on the calibre of his players and the intensity of their play – commendable from a philosophical point of view (and it probably works brilliantly if your team all has IQs in the 140s), culpable from a realistic one.
The Wallabies need coaching, Deans is a skills trainer.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:14am
mania said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:14am | Report comment
red kev – agree deans isnt a great communicator and his bench management sux; but when do the players start taking responsibility? they’re the ones that being made to look like idiots
July 20th 2012 @ 7:18am
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Do you really want a player-power revolt against the coach?
When you’re sent out onto a field with nothing more than “play what is in front of you” as game plan and preparation before an international test match don’t you think you’d feel let down as a player. The coaches job is to prepare the team – if he can’t get the best out of them then he’s the wrong coach. Simple.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:26am
mania said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:26am | Report comment
yeah that is the coaches job redKev but the key word is prepare. prepare is what happens outside of the game. when they’re on the field its up to the players.
i also agree that deans isnt getting the best out of them but then the players have to take responsibility for their performance. i hate using the word coined by JOC but these players are ruining their brand. these players when looking at going overseas arent going to command a hell of a lotta $$$ based on their performances for the wallaby’s, albeit under deans.
i agree deans is at fault with some of selections and poor management but i also reckon the players need a good kick in the but and told to frken fire up. i hate what wallaby’s have become.
July 20th 2012 @ 3:35pm
mikeylives said | July 20th 2012 @ 3:35pm | Report comment
How can players take responsibility if they aren’t picked?
July 20th 2012 @ 8:21am
Jutsie said | July 20th 2012 @ 8:21am | Report comment
Mania unlike RK im not a deans hater and I can also see the mitigating factors that led to the ireland loss, sure we went in with the wrong gameplan but when you lose your fetcher, best hooker and best strike weapon in the backline on the eve of a game your always gonna struggle.
And people can say that taking a backup openside wouldve helped but for me that is BS, all the trends show that unless your openside is world class like pocock/mccaw/warbuton/brussow your better off disrupting the breakdown with force like the saffas, irish and highlanders do. We did not have a backup 7 that was world class last year, hooper and gill have only come into their own this year and robinson whilst a battler is not “world class”.
People can also say in hindsight that barnes shouldv’e played at 12 instead of McCabe, well that is also BS considering the concerns surrounding barnes’ wellbeing in 2011, IMO he shouldn’t have even been in the squad.
My disappointment at the world cup was not where we finished, a 3rd or 2nd place was what I was expecting with the hope that if we made it into the final we would throw everything at the AB’s like the brisbane test, no the biggest disappointment was the game plan that we took into the tournament. We had a game in 2010 that could put any team to the sword even if we leaked a few tries the other way but we threw this away at the last minute for an ultra conservative plan at the WC. We basically went out in the semi without firing a shot.
Deans took a gamble by changing approach at the last minute and it failed miserably. I am willing to give him another chance as we all make mistakes and both sir Clive and graham henry have bounced back from failed campaigns. But if we have a poor rugby championship then its time for deans to go as it shows he hasn’t learnt his lesson.
July 20th 2012 @ 8:50am
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 8:50am | Report comment
I resent being called a Deans hater, I have simply evaluated him and found him lacking.
That’s not to say that other people (like Werewolf and KPM) don’t evaluate differently and come out with a different result. We differ in our opinion and they will have to work damn hard to change my evaluation (as I would have to in order to change theirs) – because it is considered and researched and not something I can talked out of by rhetoric (hard evidence and impregnable logic would be required).
July 20th 2012 @ 9:03am
Jutsie said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:03am | Report comment
Lol you have called me a “fanboi” on a few occasion for giving my opinion on this matter so I think i should be allowed to call you a hater
July 20th 2012 @ 9:07am
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:07am | Report comment
True enough, I guess I have to cop that.
July 20th 2012 @ 9:11am
Jutsie said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:11am | Report comment
Lol no worries, I hope you can see from my post above that I dont think deans is above criticism i just think he should be given more support till his tenure is over.
July 20th 2012 @ 9:29am
Bakkies said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:29am | Report comment
Keeping unfit players in the RWC squad was suicidal especially in the back end of the tournament. Next RWC we will probably be playing midweek matches so we need to be better prepared and conditioned.
July 20th 2012 @ 9:33am
Jutsie said | July 20th 2012 @ 9:33am | Report comment
Yeah definitely, way too many guys were underdone leading into the tournament so even when they were available to play they were not at peak performance, im thinking TPN, Palu, Mitchell, vickerman etc.
That is much an indictment on the wallabies coaching panel as it is the ARU for agreeing to an extended super season and playing samoa on top of the trinations leading into the tournament.
They needed to find a balance between revenue raising and wallaby success.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:28am
Uncle Argyle said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:28am | Report comment
My mail is that John O’Neill is gone in 2013 as the majority of the Australian Rugby Union board despise the bloke. Furthermore Deans could win every game from here to the end of his contract and that will still not be extended as he is ‘A O’Neill Man’. Ewen McKenzie is the preferred candidate as many in the halls of power want an Australian back in charge of the Wallabies. This ‘Coaching Director of Qld’ was a way of keeping link in the wings without potentially disturbing Qld rugby. Furthermore Deans has told the board and O’Neill that he does not want to go back to New Zealand as he knows he will not get the All Blacks coaching spot as Hansen has that sown up until the RWC 2015 with guys like Dave Rennie, Jamie Joseph and Todd Blackadder also potential coaches beyond that. Deans’ window to coach the All Blacks has come and gone hence he will throw his lot in with Australia, potentially as a high performance coach or as a National Coaching Director. Deans will start to position himself away from O’Neill to ingratiate himself to other factions within the ARU – stay tuned the source is a good one!
July 20th 2012 @ 10:26am
Tissot Time said | July 20th 2012 @ 10:26am | Report comment
UA agree RD wll never coach the ABs. My mail is that RD alienated himself from the NZRFU during the interview process post 2007 and as you say the standard of coaches available would require a candidate to be outstanding, which as discussed in the article above RD is not.
July 20th 2012 @ 12:42pm
WoobliesFan said | July 20th 2012 @ 12:42pm | Report comment
Nice sharing Uncle.
July 20th 2012 @ 4:51pm
The Werewolf said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:51pm | Report comment
Interesting contribution UA
July 25th 2012 @ 12:51am
liam said | July 25th 2012 @ 12:51am | Report comment
deans has already coached the ABs in 2003.
he ditched christian cullen and played… mcdonald was it, out of position when he had a just-fit umaga back from injury. he’s got a nice wee black mark from that already. he’s had his chance and it’s a fickle job that one…. god knows henry is the luckiest guy in the world to have had another crack. it takes a lucky man to get that and deans aint that lucky.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:34am
Riccardo said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:34am | Report comment
Good analysis Wolfie.
I agree with Mania in that expectation is huge, particularly in RWC years. A side-effect of the Australian winning psyche perhaps, not necessarily arrogance.
Your article highlights the fact that the Wallabies HAVE moved forward under Dingo’s tenure but glosses over some weaknesses IMO. Some will rightfully highlight some of his selections and management of the bench and there is no better example of this than the RWC. No backup openside? Inexcusable and the Wallabies were in a different part of the draw following that loss to Ireland. A glaring error that cost them dearly.
The midfield selections are mystifying to me still. McCabe has had a good year at Super level buy can he distribute at the next level? How can you set free the traditional Wallaby strength, an exciting backline, when Diggers has to come inside looking for the ball? Genia’s not always going to be able to be the hero. The Wallabies need another playmaker in the middle IMO.
However Mania also makes a very valid point in that the players have to take some accountability. They are not as hungry or as composed as the All Blacks, since that appears to be the measure that Australians aspire to. This has an effect on gameplan execution, rightly or wrongly and the playing group would do well to address it.
Red Kev has hit on communication and may not be far from the mark. As a Kiwi how well is Dingo actually preparing the team? Who’s reposnsible for shifting or ameliorating the gameplan on the field when things go awry? How well is he relating not only game plans but the core values that have made him successful in the first place.
Deans IS a good coach but may have not translated his success effectively enough with this group. I would like to see his judged on the entire year but one feels he won’t last that long.
July 20th 2012 @ 1:00pm
Sluggy said | July 20th 2012 @ 1:00pm | Report comment
Ric., second your point about midfield selections. The last time the Wallaby backs really clicked the spinal bit was Genia/Cooper/Barnes and Beale at the back. And it did not hurt having AAC, Mitchell and JOC outside them.
Deans however persists with two hard running- don’t pass it much- tackling machines in the centres. There have been injury problems, to be sure, but it bespeaks a different concept of how the game is played to that which Oz fans are used to. More of an NZ/Canterbury concept where they brick-wall the other side, and score points from both counter attack off opposition mistakes, and from building the pressure with ball in hand to create mismatches that can be taken advantage of, with backs running at tight five forwards, or a stretched defence allowing an overlap that is then exploited with clinical, error free finishing skills.
I remember back in 2008 that Deans himself stated the Wallabies would not need a separate defensive coach, because HE was the defensive coach. It was a least a subtle indication of his priorities. And its a plan that might work if you have a pack who are solid in scrums, line outs & restarts as well as at the breakdown. It could be said of the Dingo era that the breakdown is usually excellent, but whether that is because of a series of world class back rowers emerging (Pocock, Rocky before the Irish crocked him), or the coaching is a good debating point. It was an area where Ireland won the game last October. The line -out usually works well enough. But scrums remain a weakness, and restarts. The RWC winning teams of the past had serviceable forwards… and they also had Tim Horan, a once in a generation player, at 12. Is Deans responsible for the tight five woes? Indirectly, yes, the buck stops with him. He is more directly responsible for the shape of the games the backs play, and the selection policy with respect to the centres.
Having said all that, I think we can put to one side the losses against Samoa and recently to Scotland. Stuff happens. Its not the end of the world, and losses like that are a source of useful information – about selections, defensive plans and the like. Its harder to put aside watching McCabe running upright and turning over the ball again and again in the Ireland game. How about sending out a water boy with a message to him to pass it?
Personally I think it would be useful to have Link come in now as assistant coach, to coach the forwards especially, and for the succession to be established so that the coaching team can relax and concentrate on building a side with the skills to beat the Lions next year. It seems blindingly obvious that the Lions will try to win it in the forwards, and equally that if the Wallaby foot sloggers can achieve parity in the trenches, we have the fancy backs to run them off the park, dare I say it, Paris style.
July 20th 2012 @ 1:09pm
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 1:09pm | Report comment
It’s worth noting also that Deans is up to 17? or 18? different centre combinations in his five years as coach. Even if you attribute half of those changes to injuries it still seems that Deans is trying to shoehorn people into the type of midfield he wants rather than creating a backline that can take advantage of the midfield it has.
July 20th 2012 @ 1:17pm
Sluggy said | July 20th 2012 @ 1:17pm | Report comment
Indeed. Why AAC has not been a fixture at 13 is mystifying to me. Certainly when Beale, and any two of Mitchell, JOC, Digby, or even Lachy Turner are fit. If you have Genia at 9 and stick with Cooper at 10, the only query is who plays 12.
July 20th 2012 @ 1:26pm
Riccardo said | July 20th 2012 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
That’s easy mate although there will be those that disagree.
Barnes. A 2nd playmaker. Adequate defence. Good distributor (at this level and as long as no Tah is too close). He can kick a bit too (keep it on a leash though Berrick).
Genia, Cooper, Mitchell, Barnes, AAC, Digby, Beale (JOC – bench utility or vice versa with AAC) playing behind a decent enough back row will provide plenty of entertainment if they can get some front foot ball.
July 20th 2012 @ 1:48pm
Sluggy said | July 20th 2012 @ 1:48pm | Report comment
With JOC in for Digby= Paris 2010. I wonder why Deans doesn’t pick an NZ style 2nd 5/8th instead of a crash-baller?
The unanswered question, though, to be fair, is whether Deans understands the evolving game (with all the recent rules changes) better than we armchair experts. Perhaps on a close technical analysis the old fashioned NZ style second five is no longer the best option. After all the ABs do pretty well with Nonu and SBW.
July 20th 2012 @ 1:59pm
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 1:59pm | Report comment
Have you watched Nonu’s passing the last couple of years? His wide pass is the equal of most flyhalves in world rugby. He’s even kicking most games these days.
I would say that Nonu has changed his game to become a second five-eighth. The only reason the All Black midfield looks odd is because you expect Nonu at 12 to look like Conrad Smith, and Smith at 13 to look like Ma’a Nonu, but skills wise they’re still playing a second-five-eighth and centre-three-quarter game (not a crash-ball midfield).
July 20th 2012 @ 2:22pm
Sluggy said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:22pm | Report comment
McCabe might have managed a couple of offloads more recently. Not up to SBW standards yet, but is Dean’s perseverance starting to pay off in advance of 2013/2015?
July 20th 2012 @ 2:34pm
Cattledog said | July 20th 2012 @ 2:34pm | Report comment
You don’t think it a bit odd, Sluggy, that the best we can put up in the centres is a guy who has made a couple of offloads (read passed the ball) lately? He and Horne should be taken out the back and destroyed as blinds!
July 20th 2012 @ 3:10pm
Red Kev said | July 20th 2012 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
It’s off-topic cattledog but that’s one of the reasons that I like Ben Tapuai so much, he plays a genuine centres game (defense, passing, ability to offload) and is solid without being spectacular. The more I ponder it the more I hope that KPM gets his wish of Tomane being turned into a 13 too – I can see him being very good there and complementing Taps at 12 well.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:32pm
Cattledog said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:32pm | Report comment
I’ve watched Ben develop from U15s RK. He really has some flair and what I like is his off-load ability. He had an absolute scorcher at Skill Stadium last year against the Canadians prior to the WC. It was a pity he suffered that shoulder injury this season. Hopefully we’ll see him at his scintillating best again soon.
July 21st 2012 @ 1:31pm
Sluggy said | July 21st 2012 @ 1:31pm | Report comment
When Barnes was injured last year, the man who came in at 12 was McCabe. Deans has loyally selected him ever since. If Tapuai had been fit then, perhaps we would be discussing him.
July 25th 2012 @ 1:28am
liam said | July 25th 2012 @ 1:28am | Report comment
maybe the problem is that deans approached the world cup exactly as the unsuccessful AB teams did. in 1999, 2003, 2007, the ABs were mashing teams in the year leading up to the cup. come the cup, they all for various reasons subbed a fullback into the centers to shore up defense. the team stuttered, couldnt link to the wings, lost confidence, crashed out.
2011, deans brings in whats his name out of position from the wing to tackle people with his nose and bleed on the opposition (which he did and did well the poor kid). team was mashing people up in the year before, scoring tries… suddenly loses links to wings, stops scoring tries, loses confidence, crashes out, but they did it over a period of months instead of 1-2 games like the ABs did.
July 20th 2012 @ 4:56pm
The Werewolf said | July 20th 2012 @ 4:56pm | Report comment
When you say no back up openside you do realise that no other major playing nation took more than 1 no 7 to the RWC also? Ireland didn’t even take one.
It is because at test level unless the openside is world class they can not influence a game so why waste a selection on them. Gill and hooper weren’t ready and hodgson was shown up as inept against samoa.
They do have a second play maker. The fullback is the second playmaker. We are playing centre as side at the moment.
Good comment though.
July 20th 2012 @ 7:26pm
Ben S said | July 20th 2012 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
Scotland took Barclay and Rennie, England took Moody, Wood and Haskell, SA took Brussow and Louw, NZ took McCaw and Thomson. It’s arguable that not all of these players are proper opensides, but regardless they had played Test rugby at openside and weren’t simply a number 8 cum lock. The same applies to Ireland, with O’Brien and Leamy both having Test experience at 7.
July 21st 2012 @ 12:23am
The Werewolf said | July 21st 2012 @ 12:23am | Report comment
‘It’s arguable that not all of these players are proper opensides’… I’ll say!
July 21st 2012 @ 1:35am
Ben S said | July 21st 2012 @ 1:35am | Report comment
Well that’s an insightful response. The fact remains that all players had played Test rugby or at the very least club rugby at openside. England weren’t relying on Nick Easter to cover 7, were they.
July 23rd 2012 @ 7:26pm
Lion Red said | July 23rd 2012 @ 7:26pm | Report comment
How about Phil Waugh. Or even persuading George Smith to move on after the 2011 WC?
July 25th 2012 @ 1:32am
liam said | July 25th 2012 @ 1:32am | Report comment
that is fair enough but there is still scope to pick a guy to come in and do a job. on the lions tour 2005 the game against NZ Maori, the no 7 was it Nili Latu? Played a BLINDER and the maori won. he was unheralded before and since really. marty holah had only occasional chances but he had a couple games where he played exceptionally well when given the chance.
why shouldnt other guys have been given that chance?
July 20th 2012 @ 8:30am
AussieKiwi said | July 20th 2012 @ 8:30am | Report comment
Deans is a good coach, not yet a great one. He has made mistakes, but has also been a victim of unrealistic expectations. The difference in depth of talent between Aus and NZ is striking. Compare the depth at No 10 or No 8 for example. When one of the star ABs goes down injured, another almost as good is in line, and another after that. Both the ABs and the Springboks have a much stronger player pool to select from, but Deans is expected to work miracles.
I think, as others have commented previously, he may only show how good he is once he leaves the WBs, and the unrealistic expectations which ‘dog’ him here.
July 20th 2012 @ 3:29pm
colvin said | July 20th 2012 @ 3:29pm | Report comment
It seems in retrospect that Robbie has made decisions that haven’t worked, just like he’s made decisions that have. For example, to move O’Connor to the wing was the making of O’Connor as a player. Unfortunately the expectation levels on Robbie are too high. There’s no way the Wallabies will be number 1 given their player base.The Wallabies don’t have good enough players to win against the big teams consistently. They’ll win some but that’s all.
But with all the negativity being thrown Robbies’ way it seems clear that there’s nothing he can do to win the public over. Like when you lose your public support there’s no way forward. Look at Pat Lam. He lost the public support although there were a number of issues out there that indicated he had no chance of succeeding anyway. Therefore he had to go. Robbie’s a bit the same and it’s even worse for him in that he isn’t an Aussie. Not sure about the Waratahs but I suspect the problem is far greater than the Head Coach.
When Link takes over he will do well. But don’t forget he will lose games too. And the reason for that is often forgotten. It is the players who have a major role in whether they actually win or lose a game and unfortunately the reason for a loss can often be that the other side is better, no matter how good the head coach is..