Five talking points from Wallabies vs All Blacks Bledisloe 3

Charlie Lawry Roar Guru

By Charlie Lawry, Charlie Lawry is a Roar Guru

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    The Wallabies have signed off their home season with a rousing 23-18 victory over the All Blacks in Brisbane.

    Despite the Bledisloe already being lost, the Aussies dug deep in the face of some brutal defence to get the result. So, how did it all play out?

    (*The following is unapologetically pro-Wallabies.)

    1. Absolute scenes at Suncorp
    It might have been a dead rubber, but try telling that to the 23 men in gold. For long periods in Brisbane, the Wallabies looked like they were barely clinging on.

    The wet conditions caused all sorts of chaos early on. The Wallabies coughed up twice as many handling errors as the All Blacks, with the visitors dominating the contact. Things looked ominous, but they’ve learnt to hang tough. The missed tackle count ended up with 11 by the Wallabies, and a massive 28 by the All Blacks.

    Australia had won just one of the previous 18 Bledisloe encounters. This was a victory to cherish. The pride is back in the jersey. If you can’t get excited by the reactions of the players at full-time, this isn’t the game for you.

    2. Bernard’s boot wayward, but Reece steps up
    The longer the match went on, the more it looked like we were in for a repeat of Dunedin, when Foley’s errant boot proved the difference.

    Foley’s kicking woes resurfaced here, but Reece Hodge picked up the slack, slotting two long range penalties when it mattered. It was Hodge who sparked proceedings with an intercept try in the first half. More importantly, he backed it up with a 54-metre bomb on 78 minutes. His all-round contribution is improving every week.

    Reece Hodge Australia Rugby Union Wallabies 2017 tall

    (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)

    3. Cheika’s rotation policy is bearing fruit
    2017 is a year in which the Wallabies have graduated from hopeless to promising. There’s more to do, but the vibe around this squad is a far cry from the abomination that was the Super Rugby season.

    Credit must be given to Michael Cheika for his commitment to developing a genuine squad. This year has seen the emergence of Lukhan Tui, Jack Dempsey, Jordan Uelese, Izack Rodda, Tetera Faulkner, Ned Hanigan, and the soon to be capped Izaia Perese. Whether or not they turn out to be world beaters, they’ve shown ticker far beyond their years.

    4. Shout outs all round
    It’s all positive vibes this week. So here’s a tip of the cap to some special contributions.

    – Sean McMahon for his eight tackle busts, including an irrepressible 40-metre gallop. He’ll be a huge loss to Australian rugby when he heads to Japan.

    – Israel Folau for his nine tackle busts and four offloads, not to mention his 12th try of the year. He keeps raising the bar.

    – Aaron Smith’s bullet pass to Naholo for the All Blacks’ opening try was a thing of beauty. There aren’t many in the game who can top his service.

    – Sonny Bill Williams has been criticised for being past his best, but the man still managed five tackle busts and four offloads, one of which set up Rieko Ioane’s try. Just try and keep him out of the game.

    – Michael Hooper for another tireless display. Even when he’s not making his usual impact with ball in hand, he pops up everywhere with important tackles and work at the breakdown. He’s growing into the captaincy nicely.

    – Marika Koroibete was quiet for most of the game, but he’s been a revelation on the wing since his debut. He’s got a knack for coming up with clutch plays, whether it be big tackles or tidy finishes. Against the All Blacks, he scored his fourth try in as many games for the Wallabies.

    Israel Folau Wallabies

    (AAP Image/Dave Hunt)

    5. A quick word on world rankings
    One win doesn’t change the fact that the Wallabies are a work in progress. But those who claim we’re lucky to be ranked third will be markedly less chatty this week.

    It bears repeating that the Wallabies just finished second in the Rugby Championship. They’ve now beaten the best team in the world. And they’ve got greater squad depth than we’ve seen for some time.

    Fun fact: the world’s second-ranked team, England, haven’t had to face the All Blacks since 2014 and aren’t due to face them again until November 2018. That’ll make it a full four years (and 12 Bledisloe matches) between drinks for England and New Zealand.

    That’s a pretty wild anomaly for two of the world’s best teams. And if you’re a Wallabies fan, you can feel a lot better about our standing in the game. Bring on the Spring Tour!

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    The Crowd Says (201)

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:27am
      Hugo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:27am | ! Report

      You were right Charlie when you picked a WB win. Here’s part of a report from a London Journo –

      With a penalty just before the hooter, the All Blacks had a last chance to win from a lineout but their coach, Steve Hansen, conceded that would have been undeserved. “They were the better side,” he said. “They took their opportunities, put us under pressure as well and prevented us taking ours.” Hansen wants his players to reflect on their first defeat of 2017 before looking to reassert their dominance in the northern hemisphere. “We’ll use the hurt to grow,” Hansen said. “A lot of these guys it’s probably their first loss in an All Black jersey. It’s an experience you don’t wash away. You learn your lessons from it and we’ll become a better team for it. The sun will come out tomorrow.”

      The ABs face Wales, Scotland and France. Wales and Scotland will have a hard time against them but France? They often surprise.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:41am
        soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:41am | ! Report

        how is this their first defeat?

        • Roar Guru

          October 22nd 2017 @ 9:08am
          PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:08am | ! Report

          the first defeat for some of the ab players in that game. They didn’t play in the game against the lions.

          The journo misinterpreted what Hansen actually said and added the 2017.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:14pm
            Drongo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:14pm | ! Report

            Yeah, except Hansen said ‘a lot’ of players would have experienced their first loss in an AB jersey.

            • October 23rd 2017 @ 2:23am
              Carozza'sNose said | October 23rd 2017 @ 2:23am | ! Report

              True. Noticed that errant journalism.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:56am
      englishbob said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:56am | ! Report

      Great game, congratulations to the wallabies, well deserved win. Nice to see you win one game against nz and then the talk about England being a false second ranked team starts ha. As good as the Aussies were today and as much as I enjoy nz losing, if the wallabies roll up to Twickenham with a pack that lightweight they will get marmalised, you’ve got three players who would compete for places in the England 15, Hooper, Folau and Beale. We look forward to seeing you up here, England by 10

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 5:21am
        DrTootr said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:21am | ! Report

        Is that you Danny Cipriani?

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:36am
        Jameswm said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:36am | ! Report

        Kepu. Coleman. Polota-Nau. Genia. Koroibete. Hodge. McMahon. Kerevi.

        Underestimate them at your peril.

      • Roar Rookie

        October 22nd 2017 @ 7:29am
        Peter Robinson said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:29am | ! Report

        Oh please, please, please let the English press reflect this attitude. Please let them say that England are the best team ever seen in World Rugby and all they need to do is turn up and win by 50 points against the Wallabies.

        And then let things take their natural course, and Wallabies spank you as they do when you get delusions of grandeur.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:09am
          Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:09am | ! Report

          Ha ha, that would be fun?

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 9:23am
          Rich_UK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:23am | ! Report

          Well it was Oz rugby fans talking themselves up before our last 4 games

          ……result 4 zip England!!!

          So not sure whrre you’re coming from there

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 3:37pm
            Worlds Biggest said | October 22nd 2017 @ 3:37pm | ! Report

            Bit like you guys talking up a storm, players and media alike before the World Cup Pool game, Oz were going to get destroyed ?!

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:04pm
            Jameswm said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:04pm | ! Report

            At least we don’t avoid playing the All Blacks.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:10am
        poyns said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:10am | ! Report

        If Foley kicks a couple more goals in Dunedin and we now hold the Bledisloe, I wonder would your comment be the same.

        • Roar Pro

          October 22nd 2017 @ 10:19am
          Crazy Horse said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:19am | ! Report

          Or Cheika actually used the best kickers in the team instead of Foley.

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 10:22am
            PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:22am | ! Report

            There aren’t any real good kickers in the team, Foley is probably the best goal kicker they have in the squad.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:36am
              PiratesRugby said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:36am | ! Report

              Who is our back up 10 in the squad?

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 10:43am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:43am | ! Report

                Unfortuneately Beale and after him Hodge it seems. But that wasn’t the point raised though.

              • October 23rd 2017 @ 8:18am
                PiratesRugby said | October 23rd 2017 @ 8:18am | ! Report

                Just asking. But I’m not worried by your response. Either Beale or Hodge would do fine. I’d prefer to see Hodge get some real game time at 10 at Test level.
                My own view about Foley is that he lets us down. He’s not a good pass or kick, he’s an okay runner, his goal kicking is unexceptional and limited, he’s hardly a ‘playmaker’, and his defence is unsalvageable. I was worried that Cheika may have no backup for him in the squad because he doesn’t want competition. I assume that’s why Cooper was dropped.

            • Roar Pro

              October 22nd 2017 @ 11:03am
              Crazy Horse said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:03am | ! Report

              Hodge is clearly better both in range and consistency in kicking for goal. Beale is at least as good as Foley. DHP when fit is also much better than Foley in kicking for the line.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:19am
                Sos said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:19am | ! Report

                Our 7 doesn’t pilfer, so others are expected to, so why does our 10 need to be the goal kicker?

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 11:26am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:26am | ! Report

                stats on goal kicking don’t support your statements re Hodge and Beale

                Hard to justify that for DHP when he didn’t attempt even 1 kick for the force this year

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:53am
                Marlin said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:53am | ! Report

                SOS – and why does Moore have to throw in to the line out? When I were a lad….the wingers used to throw it in like a cricket delivery…

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:42pm
                Wallace footrot said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:42pm | ! Report

                The guy has a very good work rate and defensively he is always in there…..but….Foley’s technique is flawed and is opened up by his shortness in range. Look at his place kicks from the side line. He doesnt have the range partly due to technique, and is open to charge downs or pressure misses from attempted charge downs. He strikes the pointed end of the ball and takes a stab rather than a swing…..distance will never be gained from his technique. Stats will never include technique…..the number of times he is placed under undue pressure from sideline kicks not to mention charge downs is too high for professional kicker. Hodge has a technique that with the right practice and coaching can be made into an alround world class place kicker.

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 6:36pm
                Cadfael said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:36pm | ! Report

                Martin, that is a long time ago. This changed in the 1972 season in Aus.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:59pm
          Jp said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:59pm | ! Report

          The way they’re carrying on, you’d think they won the bledisloe and the rc. A victory over a team you play 3 times a year. Wow

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:45am
        Olly said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:45am | ! Report

        All talk for a team who has no idea what it is like to play the All Blacks in full force. Mid year and end year tours are just the All Blacks going through the motions.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:09pm
          Peter said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:09pm | ! Report

          So funny. You’ve just said the All Blacks only lose because they don’t try. Talk about not respecting the jersey!

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:56am
        Redsfan1 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:56am | ! Report

        England couldnt run the ball for quids.

        And the Aussie forwards will be looking forward to it. England are just too scared to play the All Blacks.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 12:32pm
          zubrick said | October 22nd 2017 @ 12:32pm | ! Report

          have a look at anthony watson and elliot daly both very classy during the lions tour to nz
          speedsters adept steppers and passers

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:54pm
        Eeds said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:54pm | ! Report

        I’ll take the Aussie backrow over the English one any day of the week. Tight five will need massive improvement even from last night to be up to scratch.

      • Roar Rookie

        October 23rd 2017 @ 1:42pm
        piru said | October 23rd 2017 @ 1:42pm | ! Report


        Is that ‘turned into marmalade?

    • Roar Guru

      October 22nd 2017 @ 5:26am
      Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:26am | ! Report

      OZ’s best game coincided with NZ’s worst of 2017?

      Great win!

      Good on ya, Hodge.

      I thought Genia outplayed A Smith; a rare feat in the last 5 years.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:38am
        Jameswm said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:38am | ! Report

        What about Dunedin? Or the Lions games?

        I’m not convinced it was our best game.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:26am
          Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:26am | ! Report

          I think our best game was Dunedin.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:42am
            soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:42am | ! Report

            nah we played for 80 last night. there was a lot more luck in dunedin

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:47am
              Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:47am | ! Report

              We played against a much stronger AB team in November, and it was in New Zealand.

              I get your point though. You could well be right.

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 9:13am
                PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:13am | ! Report

                very hard to judge so overall probably at the same level

                They played a stronger AB team in NZ. They attacked better than this game and made less errors.

                In NZ they never dropped their heads when NZ got back in the lead instead they took it back.

                They did defend better, the set pieces were better and played with more intensity in Brisbane though.

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 5:49pm
                Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:49pm | ! Report

                I saw WBs in Brisbane as making AB attack look slow; that’s a big accomplishment.

          • October 23rd 2017 @ 2:36am
            Carozza'sNose said | October 23rd 2017 @ 2:36am | ! Report

            Totally agree. Should have snared that restart and a conversion and none of this chat would be occurring. ..should have-could have! I know. However, this time ABs were finally getting pinged for taking out players not involved in ruck or with the ball.

            This has been a long time coming and if a new IRB stipulation, Hansen will struggle.

            On another note, here in London a physio involved with England rugby told me that RFU specifically avoided The ABs in fixtures for 2016 and 2017 as they thought the world rankings for next WCup were coming out later than what actually transpired.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:36am
        Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:36am | ! Report

        Genia’s outplayed Smith in both of their last two encounters. Genia had his number in Dunedin also.

        • Roar Rookie

          October 22nd 2017 @ 2:20pm
          nothing if not critical said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:20pm | ! Report

          I’m surprised Genia gets so little respect. He is consistently one of the top performers in the Aussie team and yet often under-rated by commentators and punters at ratings time. As the most consistent player, and one of the first picked (based on form), he’s one of the indispensable players in the team. Not sure why he’s not captain!

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 5:50pm
            Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:50pm | ! Report

            I see Genia as Australia’s best player.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:11pm
              cuw said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:11pm | ! Report

              when he is in form auzzy play much better.

              i just want to see him play again with Cooper 🙂

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:33pm
                Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:33pm | ! Report

                Me too, my friend, me too.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:51am
        Mike from tari said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:51am | ! Report

        Define NZ’s worst game in 2017, do you mean the way they played or the way they were allowed to play, big difference, the Aussie defence hammered them & gave them hardly any room to move.
        smith must have been put off his game by toilet joke sledging.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:01am
          Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:01am | ! Report

          Define why its the ABs worst game?

          cos we lost, and weve only lost two, the other where we had a man off for sixty minutes.

          Pretty easy really.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 1:12pm
            Peter said | October 22nd 2017 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

            As AB “supporters” are so fond of saying, read the scoreboard. You lost. Suck it up.
            You could try Hansen’s aporoach, way classier than yours: the sun will come up tomorrow.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:22pm
              Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:22pm | ! Report

              Well perhaps you read mine today Peter. Here a direct question was asked, and answered. No sunrise needed with that answer.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:21pm
            Drongo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:21pm | ! Report

            The Wallabies are the first team to defeat the ABs in 2017 with 15 on the park. Don’t think there is any reason to say that was the ‘worst’ AB performance of 2017 just because they lost. Definitely the best Wallaby performance of 2017 and I think that is the main reason why the ABs lost. I didn’t see an AB team playing badly last night, they played typical AB rugby, and nearly won it again at the end, except for Cole who looked indignant that they were not running away with it and cost his team dearly with his garbage off the ball and his non-stop sledging which was audible from the stands.

            • October 23rd 2017 @ 6:19am
              Taylorman said | October 23rd 2017 @ 6:19am | ! Report

              Dont think you get it Drongo. The ABs played x number of tests this year. One of them will be the worst, and that must be one of the two losses because in no way shape or form would one justify a win or draw as a worst result over a loss, even if they actually played more poorly in a win or draw. In the end, worst result must be attributed to a loss, if there is one.

              Of the two losses, one involved a man off for sixty minutes, and was against a purportedly better side. If they were ranked they would be higher than oz on that series performance.

              Theres no juggling here, its the worst. Amything else is spin, and poor analysis.

              This is also the Wallabies best result, for it was the highest ranked side they have beaten. Simple. They may have played better, but none was a better result.

          • October 23rd 2017 @ 12:14pm
            MitchO said | October 23rd 2017 @ 12:14pm | ! Report

            Tman. The scoreboard usually defines the All Black’s worst game coz it’s the one they lose. Even when they don’t play 100% they still usually find a way to win.

            The above said, I think the ABs played pretty well but a few of those little moments were seized by the Wallabies like in all really high level sport there is not much distance between first and last. If you get it wrong you’re in trouble.

            And some of the Aussies are capable of doing top level things and did them. Some big moments from McMahon, the usual from Hooper, some irrepressible stuff from Folau. Hodge and Korobeiti closing the door on DHP.

            I wouldn’t have given Dempsey man of the match but he is up for test match rugby. If we do lose McMahon then at least Dempsey can fill that role. Some scrap, some lineout some running.

        • Roar Guru

          October 22nd 2017 @ 5:51pm
          Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:51pm | ! Report

          Because NZ struggled to score tries, lost composure down the stretch, and kicked poorly.

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:22pm
            Drongo said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:22pm | ! Report

            Because the Wallabies put pressure on them in defence and attack.

            • Roar Guru

              October 22nd 2017 @ 10:48pm
              Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:48pm | ! Report


              The Lions and the Boks also put pressure on the ABs.

              It worked.

              But I felt the ABs missed their spine in Brisbane the most:


              • October 23rd 2017 @ 6:25am
                Taylorman said | October 23rd 2017 @ 6:25am | ! Report

                Yes thats the single biggest reason…from an AB perspective. Had those five played, its likely the ABs would have won.

                Liken it to oz’s chances against the upcoming England. Take Beale, Folau, Hooper, Kepu and Genia out.

                You tell me which side has a better chance of winning? With or without those five. Its that obvious.

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:34am
        Ruckin Oaf said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:34am | ! Report

        “OZ’s best game coincided with NZ’s worst of 2017?”

        Maybe – maybe it wasn’t coincidental at all.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:05pm
          cuw said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:05pm | ! Report

          ” Mr Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.” ”

          Ian Fleming – Goldfinger

      • October 23rd 2017 @ 8:24pm
        Baz said | October 23rd 2017 @ 8:24pm | ! Report

        does Genia need to snipe more? Seems in the past with QC in the line he, Genia had more confidence to run. The opposition need to believe that 9 and 10 are going to take them on, otherwise they will just slide.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 5:30am
      DrTootr said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:30am | ! Report

      Interesting points and good article. I am very happy with the gritty and determined win we had today, it showed a lot of heart. The Wallabies still have a big mountain to climb with the EOYT.

      I didn’t know about the fun fact you mention in point 5, why is this so? England are very lucky to have one smart Aussie running their ship in Eddie and this will be another big match to see if this Wallaby team can absorb pressure and play the full 80 minutes. I just hope we don’t pick up too many injuries along the way.

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:17am
      englishbob said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:17am | ! Report

      Danny is admittedly much better looking and probably a better athlete than me , but then so is Stephen hawking

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:21am
        DrTootr said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:21am | ! Report

        Fair enough, was just going to ask you how your selfie game was going if you were infact Cipriani ??

    • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:07am
      englishbob said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:07am | ! Report

      Don’t get me wrong I think there are some really good players in the aus team now and a sprinkling of great ones, but honestly I wouldn’t swap itoje, Courtney lawes, either vunipola, George, Farrell youngs, daly for their equivalent but then we’d probably all say that about our own team player. We’ll swap Mike Brown for Izzy if you want ?. Folau is finally fulfilling the potential he showed in 2013/14 and he is now a true world beater. The point I may have clumsily failed to make is that aus beat nz today but failed to beat a very average south African team twice recently, purely because the relatively small aussie backrow couldn’t live with the giant bokke pack and Englands pack is nearly if not as big as that and their backs include four British lions, so I cant see aus winning that one. I think they’ll beat everyone else, or at least they should. Final point, England’s current 5/6 choice first five is piers Francis who was at least as good this last super rugby season as foley/cooper. Aus is doing brilliantly with probably 10% of those playing resources

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:22am
        Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:22am | ! Report

        I don’t think we know if the South African team is very average.

        They had one horrendous loss, but otherwise cleanswept Argentina and France and pushed NZ to the very limit in the fixture in Cape Town.

        It’s possible that South Africa and Australia are better than we’re giving them credit for.

        Farrell is also not that good. He can kick his goals and make his tackles but man is he one-dimensional (way better than Foley though), I don’t think anyone on planet earth (outside of England maybe) would seriously say that Ben Youngs is in Genia’s class, Launchbury and Itoje are better than Coleman, but Lawes must be about on par and Kruis is not that good, and Vunipola is injured. I think, as per usual, England will generally have the better pack and we will have the better backline (Elliot Daly excepted).

        That being said, I don’t think England’s pack is as good as Souths Africa’s. The difference being that England has a good backline also, whereas the South African backline let down their forward constantly. It won’t be like that in England.

        England are still a clear number 2 though. Until another team has a sustained period of dominance they cannot leapfrog England. England have earned their number 2 spot.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:43am
          soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:43am | ! Report

          i rate youngs higher than genia

          • October 22nd 2017 @ 7:48am
            Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 7:48am | ! Report

            I think Youngs would be lucky to be the third best halfback in the northern hemisphere, and I rate Genia higher than Murray, who I rate a lot higher than Youngs.

            On 2016-17 form Genia has to be considered the 2nd best halfback in the world after Smitg.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 8:48am
              soapit said | October 22nd 2017 @ 8:48am | ! Report

              honestly i dont watch enough nh to offer much more than my previous comment on the topic

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 4:20pm
                cuw said | October 22nd 2017 @ 4:20pm | ! Report

                its funny people do not consider other countries in these discussions.

                for eg. Maxime Machenaud (Racing 92) and Morgan Parra ( Clearmont) of France are very good scrum halves.

                they are also very good tacklers – never shirk the physical stuff.

                and King khan is still going strong – had he played for NZ , peeps will be raving about him.

              • October 22nd 2017 @ 10:36pm
                Lorry said | October 22nd 2017 @ 10:36pm | ! Report


                So true!!! I put it down to Anglo-hegemony!

                The same thing happens with music and makes me crazy. Popular music doesn’t start and end in English speaking countries

            • October 23rd 2017 @ 11:48am
              Taylorman said | October 23rd 2017 @ 11:48am | ! Report

              Really? Not in my book. Ive seen Youngs and Care many times vs the ABs and theyre both usually terrible. No way I would put Youngs above Genia.

        • Roar Guru

          October 22nd 2017 @ 9:20am
          PeterK said | October 22nd 2017 @ 9:20am | ! Report

          I rate Coleman higher than Launchbury as a power lock i.e outside lineout management, also better than Lawes.

          TPN better than Hartley as well.

          It is a pity that SA don’t play England on their spring tour.

          That would be the best measure of how much they have improved.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 5:49pm
          Rugby Tragic said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:49pm | ! Report

          .. “South Africa and Australia are better than we’re giving them credit for”

          Of that there is no doubt … a lot of the negative talk about the South Africans and Australians is emotion based… I have always said that the talent is there but perhaps that they are a bit behind in their coaching.

          The Wallabies now just need to keep on keeping on and because of the win last night should not delude themselves into thinking all is well again …. that summary will only come to pass when the consistently beat teams above them. And good luck to them, as a Kiwi, I’d love to see the Wallabies ‘back up there’

          • Roar Guru

            October 22nd 2017 @ 5:59pm
            Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 5:59pm | ! Report

            @Rugby Tragic

            True. SA has monster talent which is usually coached DOWN.

            Evidence: third or fourth tier SA players go to Aviva or Top 14 and become perennial stars, or become fixtures in 6 Nation test teams.

            We need Dave Rennie!!!!

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:01pm
              Fionn said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:01pm | ! Report

              Would love to see how good a Springboks side coached by Rennie or Wayne Smith could be.

              • Roar Guru

                October 22nd 2017 @ 6:09pm
                Harry Jones said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:09pm | ! Report

                Yes. All Super Rugby and Currie Cup teams should have a team of Kiwis upskill-coaching them; and Rennie-Smith as Bok brain trust.

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:08pm
              cuw said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:08pm | ! Report

              Rennie is not doin so great atm, Glasgow probably going out of Champions league after 2 losses.

              but it is a pity that a lot of young guys are moving out.

              David Ribans for eg. is like 21 they say.

              and Eddie Jones will not think twice capping saffas in his team 🙂 Michael Rhodes for eg

            • October 22nd 2017 @ 6:37pm
              Rugby Tragic said | October 22nd 2017 @ 6:37pm | ! Report

              If the Boks ever got Dave Rennie …. I’d be afraid for the AB’s… very afraid! … (and I’m not joking!)

      • October 22nd 2017 @ 11:58am
        Redsfan1 said | October 22nd 2017 @ 11:58am | ! Report

        Don’t get me wrong, with all the resources and money available England are about 50% as good as they should be.

        • October 22nd 2017 @ 2:26pm
          Taylorman said | October 22nd 2017 @ 2:26pm | ! Report

          Thats exactly right, proven by Eddie Jones moving in and turning a shipwreck into a champion side in a few months.

          That confirms…more dollars than sense in the best way possible. All the resources, no idea.

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