In the absence of leadership, it’s time for fans to support their game

Mike Tuckerman Columnist

By Mike Tuckerman, Mike Tuckerman is a Roar Expert

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266 Have your say

    Congratulations to the Central Coast Mariners, who not only moved into the top four with a 1-0 win over Perth Glory on Sunday, but did so in front of more than 8,000 fans in Gosford.

    The fact that the fixture was brought forward from the original 7pm kick-off to a more palatable 5pm start was a victory for people power.

    It was also an indication – however quietly the decision was made – that what’s good for TV ratings is not always good for attendances.

    The Mariners deserve praise for working extra hard to try and get fans through the gates, not least by offering entire families entry by purchasing just one $20 ticket, as well as letting immediate family members enter for free if they showed up with a full season-ticket holder.

    The Mariners copped a financial loss on the deal, but as chief executive Shaun Mielekamp told the Daily Telegraph, they would have worn a similar loss with the original kick-off time anyway.

    And in Daniel De Silva, the 8,115 Mariners fans in attendance got to see a 20-year-old talent who looks increasingly like he deserves to be on the plane to Russia – irrespective of who the Socceroos coach is by the time the World Cup rolls around.

    Yet the Mariners clash was a rare bright spark in an otherwise forgettable A-League round.

    Blake Powell

    It didn’t help that the weather was diabolical for three of the fixtures, and Adelaide United and the Newcastle Jets might reasonably have anticipated their largest attendances of the season otherwise.

    What’s the excuse at Wellington Phoenix? Just 5,765 fans turned up at Westpac Stadium to watch them capitulate to Melbourne Victory, less than three weeks after 37,000 fans turned up at the same venue for New Zealand’s World Cup playoff against Peru.

    It will be interesting to see what FIFA makes of Wellington’s participation in the A-League when they take a closer look at our affairs, especially after New Zealand went close to knocking Peru out of the race for the World Cup finals.

    It’s not a question of a team from one country playing in the league of another – successful sides like Monaco, Swansea City and Toronto FC are all testament to that.

    But ten years after their foundation, the Phoenix add little by way of metrics, and it’s increasingly difficult to justify their existence when cities like Canberra, Geelong and Wollongong are all crying out for A-League teams.

    Will a normalisation committee care about crowd figures? In a highly competitive marketplace where professional teams are forced to fight hard for every dollar, they should.

    And A-League clubs who have complained vociferously about being hamstrung by Football Federation Australia’s centralised control had better start thinking up some marketing plans, because promoting the league may soon be in their hands.

    At least the football in Round 9 was of a decent standard, and although Sydney FC were more methodical than mellifluous in their win over Adelaide, the rest of the fixtures were all reasonably entertaining affairs.

    Brisbane Roar picked Western Sydney’s pockets with a couple of superb goals at a wet ANZ Stadium, while Melbourne City performed a similar smash-and-grab raid on the desperately unlucky Jets.

    Melbourne Victory may have kick-started their season with that come-from-behind victory over the Phoenix, while the Mariners have been one of the genuine surprise packages of the season.

    A more competitive A-League is a good thing, even if it comes at the expense of a few of the so-called heavyweights.

    But what the competition may need – should the FFA be forced to relinquish control – is for fans to stop waiting for perfect footballing conditions and to start turning up in support of their teams.

    At the end of the day, the only thing stopping the A-League from getting bigger crowds is the fact that thousands of supposed football fans choose to stay away each weekend.

    FFA deserve their share of the blame, but the rest of it lies with us.

    Mike Tuckerman
    Mike Tuckerman

    Mike Tuckerman is a Sydney-born journalist and lifelong football fan. After lengthy stints watching the beautiful game in Germany and Japan, he settled in Brisbane, and has been a leading Roar football columnist from December 2008.

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    The Crowd Says (266)

    • December 4th 2017 @ 7:04am
      AR said | December 4th 2017 @ 7:04am | ! Report

      So far this season the average attendance has fallen to around 11.5k, and crowds tend to dip in the back half of the season.

      We know Gallop isn’t up to it, but O’Rourke must be skating out his final few weeks as well.

      Kudos to the Mariners – the clubs share a 50:50 responsibility for selling their own product (it doesn’t all fall on the big bad FFA).

      A $20 family ticket is a great statement and the other clubs should take note. Would a club-run competition see more of that?

      • Roar Guru

        December 4th 2017 @ 8:30am
        Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:30am | ! Report

        All aspects come together and go hand in hand. Can’t rule out all this drama isn’t effecting the competition.

      • Roar Rookie

        December 4th 2017 @ 11:35am
        Grobbelaar said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:35am | ! Report

        Average attendances might end up at around 11,000 by the end of the year, which isn’t all that bad as far as low points go.

        It can only go up from there.

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 11:38am
          Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:38am | ! Report

          It can do down. 2010/11.

          • Roar Rookie

            December 4th 2017 @ 12:00pm
            Stevo said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:00pm | ! Report

            And that was the time of the ‘Great WC Bidding Fiasco’ So fans and the general public will stay away when there is an air of negativity/farce surrounding the competition. I maintain that the current malaise is one of the FFA’s own making. They’ve had 2 years to sort out this current issue but have been bogged down in the trenches fighting their own stakeholders. Unbelievable !!

      • December 4th 2017 @ 11:47am
        vin said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:47am | ! Report

        First time ive seen all 5 games in a round under 10K attendance since the aleague.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 1:19pm
          Tommo said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:19pm | ! Report

          Why is that so? The test cricket was the only major sport on over the weekend. No major horse racing. No BBL. So what is the excuse this weekend? So what will bring people back to the A League? Better quality players. Seems obviouse.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 1:29pm
            Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:29pm | ! Report

            “test cricket was the only major sport on over the weekend”

            Really?

            I thought I heard something about a RL World Cup Final featuring Australia playing its biggest sporting rival, England… in Brisbane?

            • December 4th 2017 @ 1:40pm
              Tommo said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:40pm | ! Report

              True. One game on a Saturday evening. How would that impact the other games. Hardly

            • December 4th 2017 @ 1:50pm
              AR said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:50pm | ! Report

              Nemesis is right.

              The tv ratings for Newcastle vs Melbourne on Saturday night was probably massively affected by the RLWC Final in Brisbane.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 3:03pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 3:03pm | ! Report

                Sport on AR. It was a massive game so all eyeballs were on the RLWC. One thing we love in this country are massive sporting contests

              • December 4th 2017 @ 7:02pm
                AR said | December 4th 2017 @ 7:02pm | ! Report

                Yep. “Clear air” is critically needed again.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 1:35pm
            chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:35pm | ! Report

            Tommo lost me at “test cricket was the only major sport on over the weekend”.
            Do you enjoy 2 horse races tommo?

            • December 4th 2017 @ 2:43pm
              Tommo said | December 4th 2017 @ 2:43pm | ! Report

              With all the media talk about the WC and the fact that the only football is the A League surely attendences and TV rateings should be higher. No one yet on the article can come up with a good reason for the lack of interest.
              40,000 people attend the test match on one day in 15 deg temps and didnt complain about the weather but it seems that the talking point very year is for football fans to whinge about the warm temps. Must be an English thing. Whinge about the weather.
              If the English get going in the cricket the numbers will be even lower.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 3:09pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 3:09pm | ! Report

                I cant argue with you there. The cricket ashes are akin to the football WC final for a lot of aussies. It will be interesting to see what the viewing numbers are like when Aus play France next year in prime time.
                No doubt we wont be hearing from you.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 3:45pm
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 3:45pm | ! Report

                Self defensive much Chris?

              • December 4th 2017 @ 7:38pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 7:38pm | ! Report

                Nah just putting a positive spin on a sport I love. Whats your story?

              • December 4th 2017 @ 8:08pm
                Hubris said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:08pm | ! Report

                It’s possible to love one thing without hating all other things. A concept so obvious it’s amazing so many of you fail to grasp it.

    • December 4th 2017 @ 7:05am
      Waz said | December 4th 2017 @ 7:05am | ! Report

      The worst thing that can happen is that the current situation, which lets not forget has been continuous for a few seasons with open spats between FFA and almost everyone, is that it breeds apathy – if you don’t care about the competition, why should I?

      I think that’s where we’re at now; viewing figures down badly and crowds collapsing every where bar Glory and Victory. The broader fan base need to see major change, believe that some one cares about the comp, before they’ll return. Thats not something Lowy and his million-dollar crew can offer, they’ve been found out – power & control is all they want, fans just prove an Inconvenience.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 7:50am
        chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 7:50am | ! Report

        It’s looking that way I have to agree. Lowy’s end game seems to be all about Lowy and burn the house down.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 7:50am
        Fadida said | December 4th 2017 @ 7:50am | ! Report

        Crowds have been hugely affected by the weather. The jets would have got 12-14k if there hadn’t been severe weather warnings. Strangely, unlike the UK, our stadiums offer bollocks all weather protection. Roofs that half cover stands at best. insane.

        Adelaide and Gosford are seriously exposed.

        As for the FFA supposedly “not caring”, for the umpteenth time I don’t give a toss. I go because I love football. I simply don’t see how that could stop people going, or watching on tv?

        God, I’d still probably go if the Jets signed Matt “the Axe” Simon.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 8:17am
          Kossie said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:17am | ! Report

          Kanta + Boogard = Matt Simon

          • December 4th 2017 @ 8:43am
            Kangajets said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:43am | ! Report

            Boogaard plus kanta plus Hoffman are the 3 weak links at the jets

            • December 4th 2017 @ 9:17am
              Kossie said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:17am | ! Report

              Agree. Nightmare scenario is Simon joining jets next season to mentor Hoffman!

              Boogy and NTS have done surprisingly well this year, but defence got a bit shaky on Sat night.

              Kanta has been lucky with refs so far this season. He could have easily got a yellow in every game the way he barges into players!

          • December 4th 2017 @ 9:00am
            Fadida said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:00am | ! Report

            Shouldn’t you be on the school run kossie?

            • December 4th 2017 @ 9:23am
              Kossie said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:23am | ! Report

              Haha. Yes, kids are driving as I text!

              Weather has been unkind to jets this season which is a pity as the vibe for the tea and the city is excellent at the moment!

          • December 4th 2017 @ 10:05am
            punter said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:05am | ! Report

            Clap, clap, clap, clap!!!!!

        • December 4th 2017 @ 8:32am
          Waz said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:32am | ! Report

          Fadida,

          “For the umpteenth time” …. sure, I get it, and I’m like you, I don’t give a toss either and i’ll be on the coast this weekend and I flew up to Cairns for that home game, I go whether it’s raining, too hot, late kick off, midweek ACL, FFA Cup, I’ve missed 2 Roar home games in 6 years, travel away occasionally, and watch the rest on tv.

          But it’s not about you and I. There aren’t enough people like you and I. Other people do give a toss, they look at the state of the game and stop caring – crowds will likely finish with a season average of 10.5k this year – that’s down 2,000 per game. I care that those people have gone. And the tv viewing figures are poor – what chance TEN will reinvest in football if next season is as bad? Nil. I care about that too.

          So someone has to care about the situation otherwise we’re on a downward spiral that won’t stop.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 10:07am
            punter said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:07am | ! Report

            Exactly Waz, the 3 of would attend because we love football, but there are others who also love football, but not enough without the buzz.

            • Columnist

              December 4th 2017 @ 10:55am
              Mike Tuckerman said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:55am | ! Report

              “There aren’t enough people like you and I.” This is the problem. And like Waz says, unless the game starts to confront some of these challenges, it could all go downhill very quickly.

            • December 4th 2017 @ 11:09am
              Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:09am | ! Report

              Other than Australia, is there any nation on earth where people attend domestic football matches because of “buzz”? Or marketing? Or marquee players?

              Or, do they all attend because they enjoy watching their team playing football?

              It’s a laugh whenever I hear Aussies describe themselves as “sports mad”. Aussies are not keen observers of sport; they’re keen observers of celebrities and events.

              We even have some say “we watch AFL & NRL because they’re the best competitions in the world”. So, they’re not watching because they enjoy the sport & have a team.

              So, once the rest of the world starts playing AFL & NRL and the best AFL/NRL talent is located overseas, it means these “sports mad” Aussie fans will dump their local clubs and start watching AFL Barcleona, or AFL Man United?

              • December 4th 2017 @ 11:45am
                Lionheart said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:45am | ! Report

                I think that ‘best competitions in the world’ thing is just another phrase to say ‘stay away from soccer’.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:00pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:00pm | ! Report

                In all honesty, I always thought people that said I watch AFL and NRL because they are the best competitions in the world, were being sarcastic. Sadly, it appears that they were being genuine.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 5:10pm
                Paul2 said | December 4th 2017 @ 5:10pm | ! Report

                In all honesty, I’ve never once heard an Australian rules or Rugby League fan say that watch the AFL/NRL “because it’s the best in the world” (as in, literally never). I do hear plenty of soccer fans ascribing this view to AF/RL fans, normally when they’re looking for someone to blame for Aleague crowds being smaller than they’d like.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 6:10pm
                Kangajets said | December 4th 2017 @ 6:10pm | ! Report

                Paul2

                Don’t tell porkies mate

                Australia just won the rl World Cup . Best in the world

                I am an afl fan, and it’s common for afl fans to say buddy could play for the Socceroos if he chose too

                Me thinks you are lying about the other codes of footy , but u believe what U want to .

              • December 4th 2017 @ 8:11pm
                Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:11pm | ! Report

                @Paul2

                You are being ridiculous if you say AFL/NRL fans don’t say “I only want to watch sport if it’s the best in the world”.

                These tossers say that every day on this forum to explain why they don’t watch ALeague but support a team in Europe. Well, they buy the shirt of a team in Europe but they don’t actually eatch them play, nor know who is plaing in their team.

                Casual sports fans in Aust are nothing more than Groupies who want to hang around Big Events & Celebrity athletes.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 8:27pm
                AR said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:27pm | ! Report

                “Other than Australia, is there any nation on earth where people attend domestic football matches because of “buzz”? Or marketing?”

                Maybe they’ll attend for Star Wars round?

                I’ve seen the Sydney Derby posters with the light sabers. Gallop & Co. could be on to something.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 8:36pm
                valhalla said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:36pm | ! Report

                fuzznuts calling others tossers …. what more can be said other than WOW

          • December 5th 2017 @ 10:03am
            Choco Muffin 911 said | December 5th 2017 @ 10:03am | ! Report

            Waz, I am one of those 2000 “fans” who doesn’t bother going to the Roar anymore. The reason is simple. The football they play is garbage and I am no longer willing to fork out my hard earned to watch it. I have cancelled Foxtel too. I won’t forgive Aloisi for dumping Broich and keeping McKay.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 11:49am
          vin said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:49am | ! Report

          Blaming the weather again, this is Australia, not England.

          are we bigger whingers than the poms when it comes to weather? spare me a new one.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 12:57pm
            Kangajets said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:57pm | ! Report

            Vin
            Which game did you attend ?
            whats your excuse ?

            U be surprised that it rains more in Australia then England and rain does keep some people away from watching a game

            in England the massive population and small distance helps there crowds too , never mind the media saturation with football..

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 2:06pm
          Griffo said | December 4th 2017 @ 2:06pm | ! Report

          Again I think it is a multi-faceted ‘issue’ – negativity (around FFA) and percepetion (A-League isn’t ‘quality’; FFA again;…) are some of the reasons for some people…price might be for others. Perhaps distance but in Newie that is a bit different to say Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane…

          Canteen and Greater Bank could not give away the 1000 free GA tickets on Saturday at the Jets for a while (while I was out front, anyway) and the ‘fun fair’ would have been great with fine skies – kids were still out with ‘bubble football’ and the dart shootout in the rain. Yes whether is an effect and for some people it is a line too far to get wet. I think the Category 2 tickets ‘buy two for half price’ in lower Eastern deal meant the seats under the roof got fairly packed.

          I don’t know if NSWGov will put a roof over Gosford, Newcastle et al from the $2B spend on replacing two Sydney stadiums but that is a bit of luxury, but that is another story.

          I think the A-League is the first to get affected when something major is served up on FFA’s plate and the competition suffers for a number of seasons because of it.

          Also I think for others having the same 10 teams running around might be perceived (again) as being stale.

          Metrics, revenue streams and other business speak can also grate on fans.

          I think the competition needs some TLC and real focus and long term planning that actually occurs and is real, not just stated and never seen.

          McKinna stated before the Jets game they don’t know what more they can do – and you can’t control the weather – but that is only part of the story I think.

          • Roar Guru

            December 4th 2017 @ 3:29pm
            Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

            Perhaps it is a matter of we really only have a certain amount oif people really committed to the local game here and some half hearted and it really only makes up enough to keep these 10 teams ticking over. Even despite the success of Sydney FC recently and Brisbane Roar early teenies, it hasn’t translated in increase attendance. Memberships for both clubs are great this season though.

      • Roar Guru

        December 4th 2017 @ 3:02pm
        Cousin Claudio said | December 4th 2017 @ 3:02pm | ! Report

        At around 11.5k average we are about par with Portugal and in the world’s top 12 leagues for attendances.
        so lets not forget our achievements from where we were.
        http://tsmsportz.com/list/most-watched-football-leagues/

        Don’t dismiss the weather, its always a consideration these days, especially with the live broadcasts on TV.

        Sure, we have problems, but we ain’t ruined yet. There’s an almighty tussle going on for power of Australian football and once that’s cleared, a couple more big derbies next week and the holidays, we’ll stay on track.

        I go to as many A-League games as I can, even Wanderers games (as a SFC supporter).

        We ain’t dead yet by a long way.

        • Columnist

          December 4th 2017 @ 11:48pm
          Mike Tuckerman said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:48pm | ! Report

          I think there’s a metric A-League fans would do well to be wary of, and that’s constantly comparing our averaging attendances to European leagues. It might be true that Portugal averages around 11,500 fans per game, but that’s with three of their teams – Benfica, Sporting and Porto – all regularly attracting crowds of 40,000+.

          It takes around three hours to drive from Oporto to Lisbon, so on any given weekend, fans in Portugal have the chance to take in a game in front of close to a full house should they so choose. That’s a luxury we don’t have in Australia, and it’s one reason the FFA or whoever is in charge should be monitoring crowds closely. We need as many big-ticket fixtures as we can get, and we need to figure out how to achieve that in our own unique sporting landscape.

          • Roar Guru

            December 5th 2017 @ 9:02pm
            Cousin Claudio said | December 5th 2017 @ 9:02pm | ! Report

            61,565 people watched Sydney FC v Wanderers and it wasn’t even a finals match.

            What was the average crowd at NSL games?

            Recognise our successes as well and how far we’ve come. Negative talk might sell papers and get clicks, but it doesn’t help the cause.

            • Columnist

              December 6th 2017 @ 9:28am
              Mike Tuckerman said | December 6th 2017 @ 9:28am | ! Report

              People like me don’t engage in “negative talk”, we comment on what is happening.

    • December 4th 2017 @ 8:06am
      Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:06am | ! Report

      “It will be interesting to see what FIFA makes of Wellington’s participation in the A-League when they take a closer look at our affairs, especially after New Zealand went close to knocking Peru out of the race for the World Cup finals.

      Will a normalisation committee care about crowd figures? ”

      “Football Experts” on this website need to better familiarise themselves with the mandate given to the FIFA Normalisation Committee.

      The Normalisation Committee has 2 mandates only:

      a) to work with the various interest groups across AUS football to change the FFA’s statutes so that FIFA’s requirements for a diverse Congress are met

      b) to organise & oversee elections for a new FFA Board

      That’s it.
      The NC does not decide whether VAR will be used in ALeague.
      Does not get hysterical about crowds, TV ratings, the price of potato cakes at venues.
      They do not care whether an ALeague team is based in New Zealand

      • December 4th 2017 @ 8:15am
        chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:15am | ! Report

        ..and FIFA will put in local administrators to ensure the mandates are met. All this hysteria that FIFA are coming in to take over is just laughable.
        What is a concern is if power hungry Lowy takes FIFA to court and FIFA suspends Australia whilst court proceedings are in play.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 10:41am
          Lionheart said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:41am | ! Report

          yep, and all signs are that is the preferred path for Lowy

    • December 4th 2017 @ 8:17am
      Kangajets said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:17am | ! Report

      The 8000 that turned up at Newcastle on Saturday night should be applauded

      Unfortunately the weather cost the jets a 13000 crowd

      Despite the weather it was a decent game and congrats to city for taking their goal scoring opportunities. Bouzanis was fantastic in the first half .

      • December 4th 2017 @ 9:03am
        spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:03am | ! Report

        I’m calling BS on the 8,000 figure at Newcastle.

        It looked half that at best.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 9:44am
          Kangajets said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:44am | ! Report

          I calling u a goose spruce

          Top deck of western grandstand full

          Can’t see it on tv.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 5:31pm
            Fadida said | December 4th 2017 @ 5:31pm | ! Report

            Agree Kanga. Western stand was full of refugees from other parts of the ground. 8k was about right

        • December 4th 2017 @ 5:11pm
          Paul2 said | December 4th 2017 @ 5:11pm | ! Report

          If I wasn’t to draw official crowd figures into question, I’d be looking at the earlier game on Saturday afternoon.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 4:28pm
        Hunter said | December 4th 2017 @ 4:28pm | ! Report

        I’m also calling BS on the 8,000 figure at ANZ.

        We are meant to believe that 1 in 10 seats were filled?? This from a team that supposedly has wide spread fanatically support??

        Crowd fudging going on left right and center lately.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 5:19pm
          RandyM said | December 4th 2017 @ 5:19pm | ! Report

          They aren’t the first code to fudge crowds. We know the NRL and AFL do it too, although AFL fans will deny it vehemently lol

      • Roar Guru

        December 4th 2017 @ 5:19pm
        Griffo said | December 4th 2017 @ 5:19pm | ! Report

        Have to agree that what you see or don’t see on camera makes a difference at Hunter Stadium.

        There were a reasonable amount lower Eastern but more upper section where there is cover – more so than when it’s getting baked in the afternoon sun, plus there was a deal on.

        Generally the hills are a good indicator, but people were sneaking into the grandstands to get out of the weather.

        8000 was about right from my experience.

        Taking a different tach, if we had a season like this a few seasons ago where the membership number was already 10k not 8k, the averages would be better imo.

        I think quite a few had enough end of last season at the Jets under achieving that it wouldn’t surprise me that numbers would be down a little anyway.

        Hoping a continuing good run and Merrick’s attack mantra may see things pick up later season.

        Don’t discount the number of seasons of dross that members were forking out for, and membership prices have gone up, too.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 10:16pm
        Kenny said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:16pm | ! Report

        Stop blaming the weather what rubbish .for a regional town eight thaousand for Newcastle and Gosford is a good crowd he’ll is that not what Sydney fc are getting and what’s Sydneys population.the game needs to grow to grow to sixteen teams .ten teams isn’t enough to keep fence sitters interested .

    • Roar Guru

      December 4th 2017 @ 8:25am
      Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:25am | ! Report

      Wellington really need a 12k seat stadium. So that and it’ll solve a lot of problems and reduce the complaints. It’ll have a positive effect on attendance, membership and viewing experience for those across the ditch and from a tv perspective, I could only foresee it’ll help too.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 8:34am
        Kavvy said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:34am | ! Report

        Paid for by?….

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 8:56am
          Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:56am | ! Report

          Their government. If they want the nix to be successful, they need to also help. For their current stadium does nothing for anyone and is a huge problem.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 9:04am
            spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:04am | ! Report

            Cameron,

            If the Hurricanes can’t justify a small, modest sized rectangular stadium, then the Phoenix won’t be getting one.

            • Roar Guru

              December 4th 2017 @ 9:14am
              Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:14am | ! Report

              The Hurricanes could probably benefit from an appropriate sized stadium as their attendances have also suffered. Be it because the stadium probably isn’t suited to rugby or football?

              • Roar Guru

                December 4th 2017 @ 9:45am
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:45am | ! Report

                No doubt they could benefit.

                My point is though that if the Hurricanes can’t twist the arms of the government, the Phoenix have no chance.

                Wellington is too small to have a a 35,000 seat round stadium and a rectangle stadium. if the rugby and football left the cake tin, then it would become a decrepit white elephant. NZ cricket plays tests at the Basin, and only 1-2 ODI’s/T20’s at the Cake Tin a year.

                No, the Phoenix need to accept that the Cake Tin is their home, and work to bring more people in there.

              • Roar Guru

                December 4th 2017 @ 10:03am
                Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:03am | ! Report

                Bugger the government then. If the Phoenix owners are serious, they’re not giving any indication they want the A-League licence bad enough.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 8:48am
        AR said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:48am | ! Report

        “Wellington really need a 12k seat stadium. So that and it’ll solve a lot of problems and reduce the complaints.”

        Cam, I’m always stunned by comments like these. “Let’s solve the problem by building a brand new – smaller – stadium, so the crowds don’t look so bad”.

        I guess it’s the standard practice though…

        SydFC are averaging about 15.8k to their home games (incl the derby). They will be 1 of 3 private clubs which are the beneficiary of a $700M+ brand new 45k stadium built by the government.

        WSW are averaging about 10.7k to their home games (no derby). They will be 1 of 2 private clubs which are the beneficiary of a $300M brand new 30k stadium built by the government.

        Bonkers.

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 9:59am
          Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:59am | ! Report

          And when Allianz, Suncorp and ANZ stadiums were all built, they were built when things were cheaper and by the government. Yet many years later and the clubs footing the bills are being ripped off
          The clubs do not benefit from having stadiums built for them other than not having to pay someone to do it. 85% of matchday revenue goes to stadium hire for Brisbane Roar from what I’ve heard. Suncorp was built ages ago. It’ll also affect the tax payer building a new stadium. Other football clubs in other countries have proven building their own stadiums can be largely beneficial.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 10:32am
            spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:32am | ! Report

            Those other football clubs have 100+ years and millions upon millions of dollars behind them.

            No A-league club has that.

            • Roar Guru

              December 4th 2017 @ 10:51am
              Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:51am | ! Report

              It would be easier to invest and plan now than in 100 years. And btw, plenty of our clubs have money. There is just presently no one really bothered as there star enough incentives just running an A-League clubs in today’s climate.

            • December 4th 2017 @ 10:54am
              Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:54am | ! Report

              Those clubs did not have millions and millions of dollars behind them when they created their own stadiums.

              A club like Eibar now in La Liga, with a stadium of 7k and playing 3rd tier in Spain several years ago did not have millions & millions of dollars (or Euros) behind them.

              • Roar Guru

                December 4th 2017 @ 11:27am
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:27am | ! Report

                Absolutely right Nem. Eibar did not have millions and millions of dollars (or Euro) behind them. Nor do they have a stadium. It’s owned and operated by the council. I get your point, but boy did you pick the wrong club to force it.

                For clubs that do own their stadia, what they did have back in the day which almost no new club could do now: purchase and own land. Consequently, they now have millions and millions to undertake lavish rebuild ventures.

                You go find an A-league club that has the finances to purchase 20 acres of land in the city and then build a stadium on it. More importantly, you go find a bank that would be willing to offer a loan for that too. I’d guarantee there would be not one club that would be solvent enough to repay just an interest only loan.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:06pm
                Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:06pm | ! Report

                1) In Melbourne

                https://www.casey.vic.gov.au/council/news-publications/mediareleases/team112june17

                2) Sydney

                http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/campbelltown-city-council-launches-aleague-bid-for-south-west-sydney-20171201-gzx1s5.html

                3) Geelong

                http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/sport/victoria-patriots-our-aleague-bid-reveals-plans-for-soccer-stadium/news-story/cbbdcc42447b5ed3dcc579997401e4ac

                Plus we have the South Sydney bid from Craig Foster’s group.
                Plus Adelaide City, SMFC, Brisbane City.

                Just because you are ignorant about what’s happening, doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen.
                Open your eyes.
                Read.
                Learn

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:30pm
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:30pm | ! Report

                Coming from the man who claimed a club owned a stadium, telling someone to read and learn is a bit rich.

                On the specific topic of your post though, I read the news. I plan to one day buy a house in Bronte. Doesn’t mean I will be.

                Plans and ideas and the actualisation of those plans and ideas are two entirely different beasts Nem. And two councils that already own land and infrastructure are entirely different from a new entity with nothing (like the 10 other A-league clubs).

                It won’t be happening. The idea of a council owning a football team would be incredibly unpalatable with the voting public once it starts losing money. And it will. They all do.

            • December 4th 2017 @ 11:02am
              Waz said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:02am | ! Report

              City, via CFG, at least have the money – as do Jets, SFC, and Brisbane through their foreign owners.

              • Roar Guru

                December 4th 2017 @ 11:29am
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:29am | ! Report

                No they don’t.

                The foreign owners would not be willing to tip money out like that. Our property prices have made the idea of building a stadium a completely unprofitable private venture.

                Secondly, there just isn’t the land available for that now anyway.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:04pm
                Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:04pm | ! Report

                As the retail environment changes, there is likely to be significant land opening up where big shopping malls previously existed. Easy access for car parking & public transport.

                Perfect location for creative architects to design boutique stadiums, with retail shops, food malls. Even childcare facilities for those parents who don’t want their kid to miss out on important nap times.

                Within next 10 years, ALeague clubs will be playing out of stadiums, which they either own; or manage the rights.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 4:35pm
                AR said | December 4th 2017 @ 4:35pm | ! Report

                “Within next 10 years, ALeague clubs will be playing out of stadiums, which they either own; or manage the rights.”

                Within next 1 year, the FFA will sign a broadcast deal, which includes a Commercial FTA partner (and probably Google, YouTube, or other digital provider), for $100M p.a.

                #predictions

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:15pm
                Lionheart said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:15pm | ! Report

                having the money, and having the willingness are two completely different issues.
                We need to make the future look bright, not bleak as it does to many at present.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:26pm
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:26pm | ! Report

                “Within next 10 years, ALeague clubs will be playing out of stadiums, which they either own; or manage the rights.”

                Oh the delusions keep growing. Did you get this info from your fictional meeting with the A-league owners?

                We live in different worlds. Yours is something straight out of a black mirror episode.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:57pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:57pm | ! Report

                spruce what do you care? You’re all over this topic like a rash because there is negativity for you to feast on. You dismiss genuine football followers on here as delusional and heavens knows what else. Where were all your comments on the roos WC draw? Do you even know who we are playing?
                I doubt any genuine follower of the game on here takes your comments seriously any more because, like Mr AFL (aka Grobelaar) you are only on here to drive a wedge whenever you see a crack.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 12:59pm
                Kangajets said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:59pm | ! Report

                Chris.

                U nailed it abt the spruce goose

              • December 4th 2017 @ 1:18pm
                Nemesis said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:18pm | ! Report

                @chris & kangajet

                It’s good to see others are also seeing through the posers who post on this forum.

                I might disagree with many football fans on these discussions, but I fully appreciate they are all football fans looking for solutions.

                The outsiders are here every day to snipe & they don’t ever have any vision for the future, unless the vision is to try to mimic the competitions that are used by the sports that have no imprint outside Australia.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 1:43pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:43pm | ! Report

                Nem and Kanga there will always be the odd bored poster who wanders onto a site and might put on a comment to annoy just for the heck of it. They’re just bored and well whatever…
                But the ones who post incessantly on a tab they have no interest in apart from negative negative negative, you have to wonder what makes them tick?
                The amount of time they spend posting and rebutting anything remotely positive is just very odd behaviour.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 1:45pm
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:45pm | ! Report

                Chris

                I’m as genuine as you. I support football through a well based sense of realism. That’s all. I definitely don’t need to defend myself to you or to Nemesis.

                But when people write delusional garbage I will call it out.

                I frankly don’t give a toss what you think. Your stake in the game is about as impotent as mine or Nemesis’. At least I know the reality of mine. At least I don’t have to lie about my self-worth and pretend I have met A-league management…

                To answer your question on where my comments were on the WC draw? I didn’t comment on the roar, because I generally tend not to go onto the roar after 5pm on Friday. Life. I have one. You’ve exposed yourself badly chump.

                You and Nemesis posting on weekends only reflects how badly you two need a companion.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 1:57pm
                chris said | December 4th 2017 @ 1:57pm | ! Report

                Spruce going to a game once in your lifetime might also give you some credibility.
                Hey if sitting there tapping away all day long with your misreable outlook is what makes you tick then knock yourself out.

              • December 4th 2017 @ 3:51pm
                spruce moose said | December 4th 2017 @ 3:51pm | ! Report

                Yeah, Chris

                I’ve commented numerous times that I go to games. I make approximately 10 SFC games a year across A-league, FFA cup and AFC. Usually I’ll go to one away game if I’m in that city at said time. I’ve not gone to a game where SFC have not played at for I’m just not a big enough fan to watch neutral games.

                Of course, I don’t go to all (nor fictitiously claim that I go to all to improve my standing in Nemesis’ eyes) home games. Nor would I claim it – anyone who claims to go to all home games is either a liar or desperately in need of alternative life choices.

                Whether you don’t view me as a fan because I don’t go to EVERY match is your prerogative. I frankly don’t care. Truth needs no defence – especially against you.

              • December 5th 2017 @ 11:08am
                mattq said | December 5th 2017 @ 11:08am | ! Report

                spruce, you go to the AFC? which sheik do you meet with? at least nem is keeping his (fictitious according to you only) meetings local. A lot more believable 😉

        • December 4th 2017 @ 10:37am
          pete4 said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:37am | ! Report

          WSW crowd numbers have been hurt badly because of shifting home games around different venues constantly

          Poor form hasn’t helped either. 1 win in 8 matches taking into account the postponed match at Spotless due to an unplayable surface is hardly ideal

    • Roar Guru

      December 4th 2017 @ 8:29am
      Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:29am | ! Report

      I’m still surprised at the amount of interest and love I have for this game at times. Clubs aren’t doing their half of the work and the FFA likewise. Both are at a stalemate and neither wanting to do anything until the backroom stuff is sorted. And this stuff is pretty big and could be having an adage l affect on fans lack of engagement. I often wonder why I still website l endeavor to watch all 5 games a round and attend as many roar games as possible and run a A-League Facebook page. I feel at times I’m banging my head against a brick wall.

      • December 4th 2017 @ 8:34am
        Waz said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:34am | ! Report

        Keep the faith Cam ?

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 8:57am
          Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 8:57am | ! Report

          Cheers Waz. I swore that all read well prior to posting but… anyways you get it. I suppose we just keep caring until they take it away from us.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 9:51am
            Waz said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:51am | ! Report

            That’s it ?

      • December 4th 2017 @ 9:03am
        Fadida said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:03am | ! Report

        I would have thought because you love the game?

        Alternately, if you love the game, and the football is worth watching (which it is), why would you care what FFA are up to?

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 9:08am
          Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 9:08am | ! Report

          Fadida, love can be testing at times, even in the best of relationships. When your love is being taken for granted, sometimes you need to take a step back and look. You’re a Sydney fc supporter aren’t you? I’m sure you’d be complaining if your club owners were taking you for granted.

          And a lot of us care what the FFA do, they have a huge influence in the whole of the game, including our comp still.

          • December 5th 2017 @ 3:42am
            Fadida said | December 5th 2017 @ 3:42am | ! Report

            Jets Cam. No one has had it worse, both with owners and results

      • December 4th 2017 @ 10:43am
        pete4 said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:43am | ! Report

        Wondergoal from Franjic on the weekend with basically his 1st touch

        Roar moving a home game to the Gold Coast this weekend is an interesting move hopefully it works out

        • Roar Guru

          December 4th 2017 @ 10:53am
          Cameron Kellett said | December 4th 2017 @ 10:53am | ! Report

          It brought back some fond memories seeing Franjic do that on the weekend. I hope the game at the coast does well.

        • December 4th 2017 @ 11:04am
          Waz said | December 4th 2017 @ 11:04am | ! Report

          Brisbane are being kicked out of their home ground this weekend due to a concert, hence the gold coast. We will struggle to get 10k sadly.

          • December 4th 2017 @ 12:11pm
            Lionheart said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:11pm | ! Report

            yeah – we should’ve gotten Paul McCartney to sing pre-game and locked in a club anthem.
            Brisbane concert goers have QPAC, Entertainment Centre, Gardens Riverstage, Convention Centre, The Gabba, ANZ Stadium (QAS) numerous smaller venues around the CBD, the proposed Roma Street Parklands precinct and they still have priority over the A League at Suncorp mid football season.
            The thing is that despite Stadiums QLD image as running these stadiums for the benefit of the people, the daily running is contracted to the highly profitable, global operator and investor, AEG Ogden. They don’t care about the A League, they only care about $$.
            Interesting though, AEG owns LA Galaxy and has shares in numerous teams globally.

      • Columnist

        December 4th 2017 @ 12:50pm
        Stuart Thomas said | December 4th 2017 @ 12:50pm | ! Report

        Chin up Cameron, what is the facebook page? A group? can we join, like?

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