Thorn blames Reds’ loss on immaturity

By AAP,

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    Queensland Reds coach Brad Thorn has labelled his team’s Super Rugby capitulation to the Brumbies on Saturday night as “immature”.

    The Reds went up 15-0 at GIO Stadium, despite Thorn sensing they were a “little bit flat” in the warm-up.

    That lead went up in smoke as the Brumbies ran in seven unanswered tries, including 38 straight points, to claim a vital 45-21 victory.

    “It was probably a bit of an immature performance from our team,” Thorn said after the game.

    “When you get in those strong positions, you need to keep putting the pressure on and keep the foot on the throat.

    “There’s some learning out there, there’s some learning for our group.

    “You’re not always going to feel fizzing as a team…but I’ve played plenty of games where I felt flat, that’s fine, but you’ve still got to get the job done.”

    The Brumbies secured the bonus point out of the game, which jumped them ahead of the Reds in third in the Australian conference.

    Their dirty night got worse when captain Scott Higginbotham went down with a calf injury on his return to the starting XV, while Ben Lucas knocked out and will go through concussion protocols this week.

    The pair could be missing for another Australian derby when the Reds clash with rivals the NSW Waratahs at the SCG on April 14.

    © AAP 2018
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    The Crowd Says (103)

    • April 8th 2018 @ 10:42am
      Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:42am | ! Report

      Brad, you’ve brought som good performances out of this team.

      Don’t go into the Cheika mode of blaming the inexperience that you’ve deliberately chosen.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 11:39am
        Reverse Wheel said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:39am | ! Report

        Why on earth not? Can’t see any point to your comment other than to give you a platform for another silly swipe at Cheika. 1

        • April 8th 2018 @ 11:59am
          Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:59am | ! Report

          How’s it silly?

          Cheika pushes away players like Fardy and Higginbotham and chose players like Hanigan who struggled instead then tried to excuse performances with the inexperience he chose.

          • April 8th 2018 @ 1:12pm
            Cynical Play said | April 8th 2018 @ 1:12pm | ! Report

            Higginbottom would not make WB 23 no matter who was coaching.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 1:35pm
              Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 1:35pm | ! Report

              So Hanigan is a better option?

              • April 8th 2018 @ 2:29pm
                Cynical Play said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:29pm | ! Report

                Deflection is a poor comeback

              • April 8th 2018 @ 2:35pm
                Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:35pm | ! Report

                How is it a deflection to ask would anybody else make the same selection choice?

                Cheika is the only coach Higginbotham has struggled for opportunity under out of 3.

                Why would any coach make the same choice?

              • April 8th 2018 @ 5:10pm
                Malo said | April 8th 2018 @ 5:10pm | ! Report

                Higgers is his own worst enemy. Thorn is doing s great job.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 6:17pm
                Cynical Play said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:17pm | ! Report

                Whose talking about Hannigan?

              • Roar Guru

                April 8th 2018 @ 7:03pm
                Train Without A Station said | April 8th 2018 @ 7:03pm | ! Report

                Anybody who considers the alternatives to Higginbotham to be relevant to his selection…

              • April 9th 2018 @ 9:37am
                Fionn said | April 9th 2018 @ 9:37am | ! Report

                I feel like we may need Higginbotham at 6 to compete against Peter O’Mahony, unless Dempsey comes back strongly. O’Mahony is truly brilliant at competing at the line out

              • April 9th 2018 @ 10:01am
                shooshiner said | April 9th 2018 @ 10:01am | ! Report

                Michael Cheika will pick Ned ” MARSHMELLOW ” Hanigan at 6, and we will get thumped again.Rinse and repeat for second and third tests.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 1:47pm
              Rebellion said | April 8th 2018 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

              Maybe you’re right about that this year, i’m Not sure
              Last Higginboth was one of the best No.8s in the comp and easily the best performing No.8 in the Australian conference.
              Fact. Chieka does play favourites and most of his favourites seem to live pretty close to where he does. How else would Nic Phipps be anywhere near the Test squad FFS

              • April 8th 2018 @ 2:01pm
                Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                Cheika saw a lot more opportunity under the previous 2 coaches.

                Unfortunately injury curtailed a lot of it.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 2:01pm
                Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:01pm | ! Report

                *Higgers

              • April 8th 2018 @ 6:50pm
                cuw said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:50pm | ! Report

                the best Scott H played was in 2015 super rugger – just before the world cup.

                am sure there are statistics to back it up. but he was not selected.

                am not sure he has improved since then – or if he is in good form.

                not selecting him gave birth to POOPER – perhaps it was the plan.

              • April 9th 2018 @ 1:23pm
                Nigel said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:23pm | ! Report

                Should have tried Higgers at 7!! He’s got bulk, speed and height!!

            • April 8th 2018 @ 6:59pm
              cuw said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:59pm | ! Report

              ” “Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory, tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

              ~Sun Tsu

          • April 8th 2018 @ 3:09pm
            OZ Rugby Fan said | April 8th 2018 @ 3:09pm | ! Report

            Ummm, I thought Cheika did select Higginbotham for the Wallabies last year? First game of them season actually. Can’t have hated him too much. Higginbotham only dropped out of the squad when he was injured right?

            I can’t see that as pushing him away. Mind you I didn’t see any evidence of this with Fardy either, I think the time was just right for him to move on but others may disagree.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 3:15pm
              Fionn said | April 8th 2018 @ 3:15pm | ! Report

              Nope. From memory Cheika said that he was hoping for some different things from Higginbotham and that he didn’t bring them. The injury was separate from this.

              Yeah, the time was right to move Fardy on and yet he had been the best 6 in Australia in 2016 and 17, has been one of the consistently best players in Leinster since, which is perhaps the best club in the northern hemisphere.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 3:29pm
                cuw said | April 8th 2018 @ 3:29pm | ! Report

                from what i remember MC wanted SH to ply tight but he was always a lose forward.

                perhaps it is an issue – that he is not always in the tight stuff. he is more of a Picamoles than a read or Faletau.

                still – in those days aussy did not have any other 8 bar Palu. the decision not to take him to world cup and then even not consider him as a replacement showed the coach did not have SH in mind.

                Faardy suffered – IMO – due to the pooper structure that started at world cup and perhaps not selecting SH. he had to do the tight stuff becoz both Pocock and Hooper were not very effective in the tight. he also had to do the loose stuff as expected of a 6. that left Fardy too tired.

                Fardy has lot of support at leinster – they have a nice set of forwards , so he does not have to do it all by himself.

              • April 8th 2018 @ 6:08pm
                Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:08pm | ! Report

                He’s not as effective in tight.

                But he’s more effective in the tight and loose than Hanigan.

              • Roar Guru

                April 9th 2018 @ 10:58am
                Hoy said | April 9th 2018 @ 10:58am | ! Report

                Hang on CUW, did you just say Pocock was not very effective in tight? WHAT?

              • April 9th 2018 @ 6:25pm
                cuw said | April 9th 2018 @ 6:25pm | ! Report

                @ Hoy

                yes – from my point of view Pocock and Hooper did onething right.

                they tackled as a team . when Hooper tackled Pocock made a steal and vice versa.

                but dont forget Pocock was supposed to be the 8 – which he is not and failed to do that job.

                so in effect – tho he is a good player he played like a 7 as he knows. that made Fardy work harder.

                also dont forget in tests Pocock went against very good 8s – guys who know their job.

                if i remember correct then he got injured and someone else was at 8.

                if u look at Crusaders – Taufua is not an 8 – he plays much like a 6.5 . but the thing is he has some other nice forwards who can do many things – like Todd Whitelock Taylor … when all the regular props come in , the Crusaders pack is a formidable unit.

                also look at England and their problems – without Billy and Nathan , they lacked a lot in tight , tho having the names like Itoje , Robshaw Hartley… the collective pack was not very effective and got hammered.

                the same happened with aussy when Hanigan and Mumm played. and u have the added complication of catering to the style of Hooper – who is not a traditional 7 by any stretch of imagination.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 12:24pm
        Ruckin Oaf said | April 8th 2018 @ 12:24pm | ! Report

        So far the Reds go OK when they play teams in the bottom of the table and struggle otherwise.

        • April 8th 2018 @ 1:53pm
          Rebellion said | April 8th 2018 @ 1:53pm | ! Report

          With Chris FS as their most potent attacking back, i’d say the Reds are safely assured of a spot towards the bottom of the ladder. Their forwards will struggle to maintain the rage all season of the backs aren’t putting points on the board

          • April 8th 2018 @ 2:05pm
            Fionn said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:05pm | ! Report

            Kerevi is doing very well on attack, and Daugunu is a weapon, there’s just absolutely no attacking structure and instead totally reliant on individual brilliance. I think the team will be better with Perese back in it. Does he have better hands than CFS? He doesn’t seem to be passing the ball enough at outside centre to me.

            • April 8th 2018 @ 2:22pm
              Train without a station said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:22pm | ! Report

              Coaching staff deserve credit for the resurgence in CFS, but likewise have to take responsibility for the decline in Paia’aua.

            • Roar Guru

              April 9th 2018 @ 11:00am
              Hoy said | April 9th 2018 @ 11:00am | ! Report

              There’s no attacking structure, because they don’t have great playmakers… As solid as he is, Lance is a bit part 10. Great in defence, but perhaps not great at unlocking defences, and managing a game.

              • April 9th 2018 @ 1:41pm
                Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:41pm | ! Report

                Its a pity there is NO decent options available

              • April 9th 2018 @ 3:06pm
                shooshiner said | April 9th 2018 @ 3:06pm | ! Report

                Jacko, Stewart and Duncan are available to play10 .Both are Thorn favourites from his 2017 NRC winning team. Why is he persisting with the journeyman Lance?

              • April 9th 2018 @ 3:34pm
                Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 3:34pm | ! Report

                yeah he seems to be protecting Stewart a bit….Not sure why with his use of youth elsewhere but i suppose he has his reasons. Duncan a 12 to me but it would be interesting to see him at 10 for a few games to test it out

              • April 9th 2018 @ 5:29pm
                Ruckin Oaf said | April 9th 2018 @ 5:29pm | ! Report

                There’s a young bloke out there doing pretty well for Souths.

                He might be worth a run. 🙂

    • April 8th 2018 @ 11:17am
      Charlie Turner said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:17am | ! Report

      Yesterday’s performance was reminiscent of last years second half capitulations. Let’s see if they can turn it around next week. Good signs for the Pony’s though, McKellar has the backs running hard onto the ball, something Larkham failed to achieve.

    • April 8th 2018 @ 11:37am
      dirtyrottenscoundrel said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:37am | ! Report

      I cannot believe Thorn isn’t taking the blame for immaturity/experience. At what point was it Taniela Tupoa (Thor) was injured? Slipper gets a head knock, runs around a bit then gets pulled for an assessment yet Thor is still on dragging his arm as if stroke affected. He was running around totally ineffective yet Slipper gets pulled!

      Half-time and Thor runs out for the second half!

      • Roar Rookie

        April 9th 2018 @ 2:15pm
        Kirky said | April 9th 2018 @ 2:15pm | ! Report

        Ah yes DRS, ~But Thorney would run around with two broken arms and still play, he’s very likely played many games half stuffed through injury of some sort and finish the game, ~ Therefore as Coach he would expect his Boys to do likewise, but whether it’s the right thing or not, I’m not sure!

        Brad Thorn reminds me so much of Colin Meads as a player, ”you gotta’ be almost dead before you can’t play”, good theory or not I know not!, but those two guys were the exception!

    • April 8th 2018 @ 11:41am
      Gepetto said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:41am | ! Report

      A try to Kerevi and a yellow for Pocock might have helped the Reds but bringing on Stewart as your fight-back, game breaking weapon is a damning indictment of the coach. Time for Reds management to give Brad some candid feed-back before the season becomes a familiar disaster.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 1:47pm
        Fionn said | April 8th 2018 @ 1:47pm | ! Report

        What was Pocock due a yellow for?

        • Roar Rookie

          April 8th 2018 @ 2:53pm
          tsuru said | April 8th 2018 @ 2:53pm | ! Report

          Too many effective tackles?

          • April 8th 2018 @ 6:47pm
            Ruckin Oaf said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:47pm | ! Report

            Damn right too many effective tackles and he did it all night !!

            I was nearly yelling at the TV just watching him 🙂

        • April 8th 2018 @ 8:32pm
          Gepetto said | April 8th 2018 @ 8:32pm | ! Report

          Intentionally slapping he ball down .

          • April 8th 2018 @ 8:44pm
            cuw said | April 8th 2018 @ 8:44pm | ! Report

            LOL – as per NIgel Owens , those are accidental knock ons in an attempt to catch the ball with one hand 😛

          • April 8th 2018 @ 10:02pm
            Dahl said | April 8th 2018 @ 10:02pm | ! Report

            You spelt ‘effectively tackling the loose carrying red’ wrong.

          • April 9th 2018 @ 8:42am
            Fionn said | April 9th 2018 @ 8:42am | ! Report

            You mean making a dominant tackle?

          • April 9th 2018 @ 9:34am
            RobN said | April 9th 2018 @ 9:34am | ! Report

            Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, the ball went backwards. There’s no foul committed there.

            • April 9th 2018 @ 12:23pm
              Gepetto said | April 9th 2018 @ 12:23pm | ! Report

              I was hoping no one would pick up that point but then again the rules of rugby are absurdly administered in many instances. If a maul forms as a result of a line-out players are penalised for pulling it down but if someone is held up in a tackle and the ref says “maul” its ok to pull it down then so as to trap the ball and get the scrum feed. If a player is going for a knock down, he should try to bat it backward because that would be fair play.

              • April 9th 2018 @ 12:33pm
                Fionn said | April 9th 2018 @ 12:33pm | ! Report

                ‘I was hoping no one would pick up that point’.

                Um, sorry? So why did you say he deserved a yellow card if you know that he didn’t?

              • April 9th 2018 @ 1:46pm
                Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:46pm | ! Report

                Fionn he has played two games in a row now…surely he needs a rest…10 mins would have helped

              • April 9th 2018 @ 2:08pm
                RobN said | April 9th 2018 @ 2:08pm | ! Report

                I understand your frustration. If I were a Reds fan I would have been furious at that decision and I don’t understand why the ref didn’t go to the TMO. Having said that you have to take the good with the bad. IMHO there were a lot of other questionable moments that went against the Brumbies.

                At the end of the day it was 7 tries to 2. I don’t believe that one decision had a material impact on the result of the match.

      • Roar Rookie

        April 9th 2018 @ 2:19pm
        Kirky said | April 9th 2018 @ 2:19pm | ! Report

        Geppetto! ~Mate I’d like to be a fly on the wall should the Management take that option, ~Telling Brad Thorn how to do his job that is! yeah well!

      • April 10th 2018 @ 3:35pm
        double agent said | April 10th 2018 @ 3:35pm | ! Report

        That Kerevi No Try an absolute shocker. Kerevi made a point of putting it down so there would be a TMO review. The ref says no. Why didn’t he just say Ok let’s take a look just in case? He wouldn’t look like a complete goose now. The whole ref/TMO setup looks ridiculous when everyone watching the replays at home and at the ground,including the officials can see it’s a try but they have to pretend it isn’t.

        Then to further lower the esteem the TMO’s are held in (I’m not singling out George they’re all guilty) play is stopped to review an incident of foul play which is a total non event but the ref is compelled to give a penalty otherwise the intrusion is seen to be the waste of time we all know it is.

    • April 8th 2018 @ 11:48am
      Drongo said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:48am | ! Report

      They played like 23 wannabe Brad Thorns. Plenty of brawn but not much brain. No back line play at all, only solo runs (some good ones too, especially by Kerevi). Absolutely smashed as the final score indicates.

      • April 8th 2018 @ 6:15pm
        Ken Catchpole’s Other Leg said | April 8th 2018 @ 6:15pm | ! Report

        Drongo, similarly, I think Thorn has selected as many imitations if himself as he could – 12 tackling forwards (everyone except the back 3)
        I am enjoying the experiment. It seems like it may work.
        Forwards have a strong scrum technique
        With a few exceptions there are good tacklers (best tackling 10 in oz possibly)
        Great belief and tough unity developing in the team. (Kerevi was robbed of a 7 pointer.)
        Great running attack talent in individuals selected.
        But sadly the playmaking at the Reds looks like it has been designed by a second rower.

        • April 9th 2018 @ 6:34am
          Ruckin Oaf said | April 9th 2018 @ 6:34am | ! Report

          Well I’m loving the Reds at scrum time and that’s about it.

          I can’t see too much evidence that the experiment is working. But at least they’re ahead of the Sunwolves.

        • April 9th 2018 @ 10:21am
          shooshiner said | April 9th 2018 @ 10:21am | ! Report

          ” With a few exceptions there are good tacklers (best tackling 10 in oz possibly) ”

          Ken . Your team needs to be able to score a lot of points to win against good teams . Lance can`t do that.The Reds have struggled to put on a decent score even when dominating the opposition ie Brumbies Round 2, Bulls Round 4, and Jaguares Round 5 .

          A good tackling 10 with zero game management aint going to cut it against Chiefs, Tahs twice, Lions, Highlanders, Hurricanes and Blues moving forward.

          • April 9th 2018 @ 1:51pm
            Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:51pm | ! Report

            Shooshiner a good attacking 10 with NO tackling ability has failed the Reds for 3-4 seasons in a row now so why not change something

            • April 9th 2018 @ 3:09pm
              shooshiner said | April 9th 2018 @ 3:09pm | ! Report

              We were thrashed in the second half against the Brumbies with that great tackler Lance.

              Lets just keep the same bloke at 10 when we have Stewart and Duncan shall we ? Yeah ?

              • April 9th 2018 @ 3:37pm
                Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 3:37pm | ! Report

                Yet dominated the first half with Lance so is it player or execution?

              • April 9th 2018 @ 3:43pm
                shooshiner said | April 9th 2018 @ 3:43pm | ! Report

                A game goes for 80 mins Jacko, not 40.The Wallabies would have won 8 Bledisloes over the last 15 years if games went for 40 minutes, so not a good example mate.

              • April 9th 2018 @ 5:26pm
                Ruckin Oaf said | April 9th 2018 @ 5:26pm | ! Report

                At half time the Reds were up 18 – 12. And that’s with the Brumbies having a try disallowed.

                That scoreline is hardly dominant.

        • Roar Rookie

          April 9th 2018 @ 2:23pm
          Kirky said | April 9th 2018 @ 2:23pm | ! Report

          Yep, I agree mate I also have enjoyed the style of play the Reds are putting up right now, it’s a lot more substantial in the scrum, the backs need a bit of schooling, but that’ll come hopefully!

          It’s just good to see them playing with a bit of zip for sure!

    • April 8th 2018 @ 11:59am
      brian said | April 8th 2018 @ 11:59am | ! Report

      While I haven’t seen a video interview it is quite presumptive to say that Thorn’s statement about “immaturity” is “blaming”. My reading of the same text is that it is simply a statement of fact. Acknowledgement of a young side that requires training. He has stated what he identified as the problem. Seems like he got straight to the root cause instead of going through the mechanical and tactical errors that occurred on the field. These just being the result of the root cause. Hope he has a training regime for that immaturity.

      Maybe Thorn believes in concepts similar to yogins, though instead of only having so many breaths in life he thinks you only get so many words to say. A good belief.

      • April 9th 2018 @ 10:30am
        shooshiner said | April 9th 2018 @ 10:30am | ! Report

        Thorn loves to blame others for his shortcomings ,he has a history of it.

        • April 9th 2018 @ 1:53pm
          Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 1:53pm | ! Report

          When? Any examples? Or are you full of it?

      • April 9th 2018 @ 11:12am
        Drongo said | April 9th 2018 @ 11:12am | ! Report

        The team has a huge amount of experience in its ranks, particularly in the forwards. His comments are pure deflection. What the team lacks is a decent playmaker and tactician to unleash the firepower. On the field and off. Lance has many shortcomings which are now starting to emerge. He is a ‘solid’ journeyman at best.
        Thorn always talks about himself in post match pressers. He did it again this week. That constant self-referencing shows that he is trying to create a team in his own image. That team has severe and debilitating deficiencies for rugby in 2018. His first thought is always ‘what would BRAD do’ and his answers reflect that.

        • April 9th 2018 @ 2:06pm
          Jacko said | April 9th 2018 @ 2:06pm | ! Report

          Where have you been hiding with all the REDS wins Drongo??????? Come back to rubbish YOUR TEAM ( so you claim) and then call the REDS an “experienced team” when most are 23 and under…But of course you cannot possibly acknowledge the good you can only ever highlight the bad about YOUR TEAM

          Any suggestions who this decent playmaker and tactician to unleash the firepower ON the field and OFF the field might be?

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