Mark, here’s a link to audio of the MMM call:
http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/2013/8/aod-9604-not-prohibited-says-gerard-whateley-on-fox-footy-afl-360/

It is very powerful. And yet, on SEN Essendon+ fans are still calling up trying to deflect the attention away from Hird.

It is absolutely staggering.

TISM was right all along with their song. James Hird you’re a…

It took you until last night to realise Hird is in denial?!

Well, as a universally lauded doctor who seems to be treating every child in the world, you’d reckon he might put his principles above Hirdy’s ego. He should have resigned last year I think and I’m betting, right about now, he wished he did.

If he did then his reputation could have saved him, now I’m not so sure.

Keep digging Jimmy. Keep stoking your ego and see just how far into the mire you can take your club. I’ll admit, you’re doing a much better job than I thought you could. You are becoming a true AFL legend for 17 other clubs.

Keep on digging Jimmy! Keep on digging.

Go and read Bomberblitz. It’s staggering, haha. Their denial knows no limits.

It’s a fair point Gazzaw.

Just as no player is bigger than his club, no club is bigger than the AFL?

For example, if Carlton folded in the early 2000s, how many fans from the (now) other 17 clubs would really care so much today that it caused them to stop following the AFL?

My guess: 0.0001%

Equally, in the incredibly unlikely event Essendon ceases to exist over this supplements saga, do you really think the AFL would suffer any serious long-term ramifications? It would take a short term hit, of course, but in 5-10 years the league would recover and go on without too much inconvenience.

The same paper has said that ASADA has evidence EFC players HAVE BEEN administered substances that are on the WADA banned list. Yet most deluded EFC fans choose to ignore that.

You can’t have it both ways.

Of course James Hird is going to go on record as saying he asked for everything to be legit. Would you really expect him to come out and say, “Damn, you got me!”

There are countless significant aspects about this saga that Essendon people are ignoring.

Who signed off on Dank’s contract and who were references sought from, if any?
Why did Doc Reid’s letter of concern not make it to the board?
Why did Doc Reid not follow up and ensure his voice was heard?
Why did Doc Reid have concerns in the first place?
Why were Hird and Reid not present when the players asked for greater clarification on the juice they were being injected with?
Why was Dean Robinson stood down?
Why is Ziggy Switkowski now being discredited by Essendon folk, for a report their own club commissioned?
Why is James Hird chasing every legal loophole he can, and no longer parroting on that “when the truth comes out the club will be in a very good position”?
Why are so many Essendon fans seemingly unconcerned by numerous claims players were injected by substances that cannot be identified?
Why does anyone still listen to Mark McVeigh, who began with the laughable claims he was only injected with vitamin C?
Why is Hird’s legal team ignoring the National Anti-Doping (NAD) Scheme which states ASADA’s CEO is free to share information “to a sporting administration body in connection with ASADA’s investigation”?
Why are no Essendon members aghast at claims WADA banned substances have been invoiced to their club?
Why are no Essendon fans concerned at claims PEDs have been given to their players?
Why won’t Stephen Dank speak to the authorities?
Where is this mysterious AOD9604 is approved letter?

These are significant but will be ignored by the usual suspects. 🙂

If Dank is a conman, what is James Hird? Looks to me like he has the entire Essendon fan-base conned into thinking he is incapable of error, let alone deceit.

As for duplicity, Hird has said he should take full responsibility, but has watched Robinson get stood down immediately after the “self-reporting” was done, then seen Robson walk on the grounds that if he didn’t know he should have, and carried on when Evans departed under immense pressure.

Meanwhile, Hird has done nothing to accept his responsibility and everything to put himself before the club.

Hird appears quite adept at duplicity.

“Bombers not finished: Hird”

They will be by the time your delusional fan-enhanced ego is finished with the club Hirdy.

I do believe that Phil is a former News Ltd journo. He certainly spouts the required banal and meaningless hot air.

“The media has provided the bad PR, not Essendon.”

You should take that on the road mark, you’ll be packing comedy houses to the brim with quality like that!

Stop it Glenn, soon you’ll be telling the Essendon kids that Santa Claus isn’t real. Must you spoil all their fun!

I’ll grant you we can only take it as conjecture, but Caro has said in the past she was threatened with legal action by Essendon if she printed anything about supplements regimes. The timing for this was late 2012 if I recall, before the self-reporting melodrama anyway.

Similarly, Gerard Healy claims he took his concerns about Essendon to the AFL in 2012, it may have even been 2011.

You factor in those points with Demetriou coming out 12 months ago (or whenever) with the story that sports scientists are having too much influence and then look back at Adrian Anderson’s surprise departure from AFL house with a valedictory speech saying the integrity of the game is paramount and you’d have to be an Essendon supporter to fail to at least consider there’s a connection there.

I’m not saying 100% there is, but we’re starting to see that it’s more than feasible that the only reason St James was shocked to be sitting there in early February is because his club had been caught with its hand in the cookie jar.

And as I’ve stated here in the past, you can slam Caro all you like, I know because I did exactly the same thing when she was writing about our salary cap rorts 10 years ago, but she proved then and has again numerous times since that she normally has impeccable sources.

mark, as just one example, it was always a fair and reasonable position to suggest that Hird steps aside during the investigation. Clearly that’s not going to happen, and equally, that is also his right to do so. Neither is necessarily wrong.

However, one approach is following the practice of good governance, the other is digging in your heels regardless of the cost.

See if you can work out which is which.

Strip all the media attention aside and those scenarios still remain, regardless of context and celebrity appeal. It’s got little to do with being manipulated by the masses.

Hird’s approach may well prove to be correct, and good luck to him if that is the case. Right now, things aren’t looking so good for him.

Ugly, ugly journalism would be failing to investigate that which is being claimed. Especially when, in Caro’s case, she smelt a rat at Essendon long before the holier than thou “self-reporting” theatre.

Ugly, ugly journalism, or similar to it, is paying Mark McVeigh for an opinion. That opinion has changed immeasurably since early February, too, when he made his now laughable vitamins claim.

And you wonder why journos question the Essendon side of the story! Oh boy wowee!

I think in one of Howard’s terms the Libs had an absolute majority too, but your point is well made either way.

There may not need to be any new information. If we consider that an interim report, that was never going to name any players, has reportedly found that 11 players have been given TB4 then we must consider that ASADA may already have enough evidence to recomment some sort of action.

ASADA is not going to reveal their full hand until the moment their investigation is over.

If Essendon players do escape infraction notices then it would seem a reasonable position to take that says they did so through dumb luck.

Either that or perhaps they were in fact tipped off and their shredders were sent into over-drive before they “self-reported”.

It may yet transpire that Dank is the evil monster Essendon would have us believe. But I think we’ve also seen enough to at least consider the possibility that not everything is as pure as the driven snow at Windy Hill.

Franko, I agree it appears that the AFL would prefer to strip points from Essendon this year, but I don’t think for a moment that that means they don’t also want to apply some sort of points penalty in 2014 and maybe even beyond.

It’s important to remember, as well as four individuals being charged, the club itself has been charged too. To me that very much leaves the door of points being stripped wide open, regardless of what is decided against the players.

I can very much see Essendon starting 2014 on -24 points, or some similar scope of penalty. How else, aside from a meaningless fine, can you penalise the club?

And if Essendon goes to court to save 2013 and loses then I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the AFL took a points penalty into 2015.

As a Carlton fan I speak from experience at how harsh the AFL can be. Whatever you think is the worst case scenario, keep the possibility in mind that Essendon’s worst case thoughts may not align with the AFL’s.

Yep, I saw your other comments with the provisos, but I thought “Given the fact that the players have avoided sanction” was a pretty closed statement that required some attention. Mainly for the the actual fact that Jobe Watson and others are proclaiming and celebrating their innocence.

Erm, not so fast chaps.

I think you’re probably right to speculate that Essendon may not lose any points this year too.

Although, you would think the AFL has jumped the gun before the ASADA investigation is over for the sole reason of having the opportunity to remove Essendon from the finals.

If we thought the last seven months or so have been, shall we say, interesting, these next couple of weeks leading into the August 26 showdown are going to blow people’s minds, haha.

“Given the fact that the players have avoided sanction…”

Oh, not you too Glenn!

For two weeks, since the interim report landed, we’ve been hearing that no individual players were named in the report.

So, of course no players have been named at this stage. This report is about the governance issues at Essendon. It is not and never has been the document that will decide if any players get infraction notices.

What we have learned from this report, via commentary from Nick Mackenzie and Richard Baker at The Age, is that there may be enough evidence to confirm Thymosin Beta 4 was given to 11 of Essendon’s players. TB4 has always been an S2 banned substance for the duration being investigated, so if ASADA is able to pin down who those 11 players are then they can expect to face the prospect of kissing two years goodbye.

Moreover, Matt Finnis, who has read the interim report and has also acknowledged that it wasn’t ever going to name any individual players, has reportedly told the players that infraction notices remain a possibility (this was reported on around five days ago).

The players should not feel vindicated. They’re either saying this to keep pandering to their delusional supporter base or they are being incredibly poorly advised.

Similarly, anyone who says the players are now in the clear may soon be shocked to be sitting here.

You might need to re-read this article RedB: http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/07/19/essendon-fans-have-no-idea-whats-ahead-of-them/

Plenty of Carlton fans walked away from the game after our penalties too. Do you think the game has suffered since then? Did you think your glee was hollow then or now?

Essendon’s “our crap doesn’t stink” attitude is precisely what’s landed them in this mess.

Guess what, Essendon’s crap does stink and it stinks worse than anyone else’s ever has.

You just have to hope they have the balls to clean up after themselves. At the moment that seems unlikely. I hope for your sake that changes.

The list has its flaws, yes, but it has also shown, when on song, it can perform pretty well. It’s too easy to say the list is crap, there’s more to it than that.

It’s an inability to overcome mental frailties, along with a lack of fitness and/or unwillingness to run harder that’s been hurting us lately.

Mental softness has been an issue for a few years now too, which is something of a concern.

We’re like Geelong “handbags” of the 80s and 90s, except not that good.

Embarrassing effort from my team on the weekend.

Love your work on this one Vince.

At first I thought it *was* an AFL-driven concept. That I could even think that tells you FoxFooty is “on trend” with taking the piss out of the AFL regarding themed rounds.

I fully embrace it now, even though I’m a stinking right-handed imposter.

Yep, I understand it. It’s called the cult of celebrity and Hird has EFC under an alarming spell, it would seem.

Do you really believe there’d be any such #StandbyKnights movement if he was the coach overseeing a supplements regime? Of course not!

I’m no fan of Jabba, by any means, but can you please explain how his comment, in response to a direct question “Should James Hird stand down?” was disgraceful or unprofessional.

These are the comments AD made in reference to Hird standing aside during the ASADA investigation back in April: “As he goes through his thought process … that is an option he has to consider.

‘‘He has got an outstanding position in this game. He’s been a wonderful servant to the Essendon Football Club, an ornament to AFL football.

‘‘He’s entitled to be able to put his position forward, which he will get the opportunity (to do) next week with ASADA.”

It would be disgraceful and unprofessional of Hird if he didn’t consider his own position under the circumstances. It’s generally accepted as best practice to do just that, to at least consider standing aside during an investigation of this kind.

If you want to pin Demetriou for being disgraceful and unprofessional I’d suggest going back to *that* phone call. But, if such a tip-off did take place, I’m guessing you won’t be too upset about any alleged misconduct that was of benefit to EFC.