Pride died a long time ago.

You son could very well be right, Bill. Anderson looked far more poised this time around with Sonnen in top position, and didn’t take much – if any – damage during the round. It certainly has to be hard to get to your best position and not be able to do much of anything, just like dominating 23 minutes last time out and still coming away with the loss.

Tito – and Forrest – showed again that they’ve lost a step, and that’s fine; Father Time beats everyone eventually.

Ultimately, this show was built around Silva and Sonnen, and Silva put on a tremendous performance… AGAIN.

Thanks for the comment.

Regardless of Tito’s past, you let the man have his moment, period.

Thanks for the backhanded compliment, James. Care to share where you feel the piece is unorganized or where it ambles?

But it’s not like we have this small sample size. He’s won 14 straight in the UFC, sports a phenomenal record, and has moved up twice, once clowning a former champion.

We know his true potential – he’s awesome; one of the best ever.

There is all kinds of heart behind the showmanship. Sonnen was an Olympic hopeful long before he was “The Voice of Reason” in the UFC, and that takes dedication, talent, and commitment. His skills and abilities get lost in the shuffle of the things he says lots of times, but he’s definitely capable of backing up the things he says.

By comparison, look at a guy like Jason Miller – I love “Mayhem” but he hasn’t backed up anything in years, yet he keeps talking like he’s one of the baddest men on the planet. Sonnen said he was going to put Silva on his back for 25 minutes, and came up two minutes short. There is serious heart behind the schtick.

I understand fighters having respect for their opponents from a “he’s done a lot of good things” standpoint; no point denying something we all know is true.

That said, I don’t think you have to answer in cliches and be a broken record as you said. I don’t think we need everyone to be offering monologues like Sonnen or blurring reality as he tends to do some times, but just be real – say what is really on your mind and not the PC answer when you’re asked a question.

The division looks weak because there is one dominant fighter (Silva) and a bunch of good, but flawed fighters below him. You can have a ton of entertaining fights with the guys who rank 2 through 10, but none of them pose a real threat to Silva.

If you take Anderson out, the division is competitive, but there is no one who can dominant; everyone has flaws. If you took Jones out of the LHW division, two or three guys are still head-and-shoulders above the rest. You can’t say that about MW.

GSP doesn’t fight guys twice because it’s close – he fought Hughes twice (well, three times actually) because Hughes was the champion and still a top WW; he fought Penn twice because he was a top challenger and then the LW champ who wanted revenge. Koscheck twice made sense from a rankings and TUF standpoint. Additionally, the talk of him going back through the division came up because he’d already exhausted all his possible challenger — he’d beaten everyone, and there weren’t any new opponents stepping up.

For me, depth has always been about the number of high caliber competitors in the division, how I see everyone else in the division measuring up with the champion, and whether I can see any of those guys having extended reigns atop the division.

Yushin Okami was considered the #2 or #3 middleweight in the world for a long time, but he’s never beaten truly elite competition, having lost to Rich Franklin, Sonnen, and then Silva, before getting stopped by Tim Boetsch in February.

Vitor Belfort has ONE win in the UFC middleweight division, over Yoshihiro Akiyama, an undersized guy who is now fighting at WW, unsuccessfully I might add.

Michael Bisping thinks he’s a title contender, but he’s never beaten anyone of great substance either, losing to Wanderlei Silva and Sonnen.

The one guy I could have seen making a run atop the division if not for Silva was Dan Henderson – great wrestling, big power, savvy veteran – but he couldn’t get passed Silva, and then was allowed to walk after beating Bisping.

The rest of the current top 10 is made up of guys who are flawed and probably wouldn’t have extended runs as champions – as much as I like guys like Brian Stann, Rousimar Palhares, and Boetsch, they’re not what I would consider title contenders; all have flaws and/or are unproven against top flight competition.

Make sense so far?

Taking the LHW division, you had a clear upper echelon of fighters who traded the title for a number of years: Rampage, Rashad Evans, Lyoto Machida, and Shogun Rua.

Yes, Jon Jones has dominated all of those guys, but that doesn’t diminish how talented they are; it shows how damn talented Jones is. Rampage has lost a step now, but any of the other three could potentially dominate the division if not for Jones, as could Dan Henderson if given the chance.

All of those guys would run through (and have run through) the middle tier talent in the division; the only guy who has beaten them is Jones or another guy in that list, unlike MW, where Maia beat Sonnen, Boestch beat Okami, etc.The best wins of those MW contenders don’t compare to the best wins of the potential LHW challengers.

The other part of it is just the eyeball test – you can just see how competitive and deep certain divisions are, like lightweight. Most fights from the middle of the division up are highly competitive and coin-flip fights. Same with WW.

That’s my explanation. Hope it makes sense.

The video is outstanding, and I too think there is room for guys like Sonnen (and Josh Barnett, King Mo Lawal) in MMA – personalities who are ready and willing to embrace the entertainment side of things on the mic.

Enjoy the fight, and thanks for commenting.

We will find out on Saturday night! Enjoy the fight.

Some of what he says is definitely tongue in cheek, but I do think there is some of it that he really does believe truthfully. There are glimpses of “The Real Chael” in here – his inability to put into words what it would mean to him to have the title wrapped around his waist on Saturday night (Sunday morning) is the genuine article.

I think he keeps up the persona win or lose.

Thanks for taking the time to read the piece, and leaving a comment.

Even though some of it is pure crazy talk, I too find him refreshing. It’s one of the things I love about covering this sport — athletes who are accessible, and willing to answer questions honestly with fewer cliches than most other sports.

Glad you liked the piece, Sir.

Love him or hate him, you can’t say that Chael P. Sonnen doesn’t know how to (1) push an opponent’s buttons when he wants, and (2) sell a fight.

He brought people to the first fight with his verbal attack on Silva (and Brazil), and he’s raised the bar even higher by drawing Silva out of his shell this time around too.

Keep the comments coming!

Chael has done an incredible job of transforming himself from a mid-card competitor into a must-see attraction, and a lot of his has to do with his command of the microphone.

I know a lot of people don’t like that he’s “borrowing” from old professional wrestling bits and clearly rehearsing some of his lines prior to delivering them, but I love the guy. I think he’s all kinds of entertaining, and great for the sport.

Thanks for the comment.

Maia’s triangle on Sonnen is still my all-time favorite submission in the UFC – the way he set it up was brilliant, and I wish there were more fans out there who appreciated the intricacies of the grappling game.

As for Diaz-GSP vs. GSP-Condit: I actually think Diaz-GSP wouldn’t be all that great, as I don’t see Nick being able to do much from the bottom with St-Pierre suffocating him from top position. I think the same goes for Condit when they fight, though I actually give Condit a better chance of catching GSP off-guard with something in the stand-up.

Nick is somewhat predictable in his offense, whereas Condit will throw all that “spinning s*@$” Diaz didn’t like in their bout at UFC 143, plus things like the flying knee he cracked DHK with at UFC 132 last summer.

I don’t necessarily agree that it will be a “fight not to lose” battle though. I think GSP’s strategy and mindset is more “fight to win without putting yourself in danger,” and that’s not exactly “fight not to lose,” though I do understand where you’re coming from. My thing is – and I’ll definitely expand on this at a later date here – the onus in those situations shouldn’t be on GSP to change his strategy; rather his opponents who are on the wrong end of a one-sided beating.

GSP didn’t need to stop jabbing Koscheck’s orbital bone into oblivion; it was Kos who needed to find someway to stop it, change the tempo of the fight, and get his own offense started.

Fedor is in the Top 5 for me because of his dominance in Pride when it was clearly the best HW division in the sport, but as has been said, those losses to Werdum, Silva, and Henderson have dropped him down a notch or two from his previous perch.

Additionally, his fall is not really all that different from that of other former greats like Couture or Liddell, both of whom struggled in the twilight of their careers. Things catch up with you eventually, and no matter how great you once were, the time comes when there is someone better out there… or several someones.

I think that was longer than my actual column, so kudos for taking the time to deliver such an all-encompassing comment.

Since you took the time to put your thoughts into print, I will take the time to respond to the things you’ve put forth:

– Yes, I got the short end of the straw. Sam suggested we do something like this, then handed me the “argue against it” side of the deal. He’s crafty that way. I would have done the same to him if given the opportunity, and will remember that for later.

– Of course no one outside of the UFC could have beaten those four; the UFC is where the vast majority of the elite talent in the sport rests, so that is kind of a no-brainer assessment to me.

– I would argue that Franklin was more “right up there” than Nate or Belfort during his two fights with Anderson. He was, after all, the champion in the first fight, and had beaten Jason MacDonald and Okami heading into the second fight. Personally, I think Nate Marquardt gets more credit and recognition than he deserves – his best career UFC win is either Demian Maia or Martin Kampmann, and they both came post-Silva.

– Belfort got his shot after beating Franklin, whose standing you questioned. Prior to that he’d beaten Matt Lindland and Terry Martin, a pair of over the hill veterans trading on their names in Affliction.

– Just because Fitch and Shields don’t have the same kind of striking as Alves doesn’t make them any less dangerous as opponents. If they were such push-overs and the path to beating them is so easy, how come more people hadn’t done it, especially leading into their bouts with GSP? I don’t think the divisions cancel out at all, especially when you go back to GSP fighting guys like Penn and Hughes prior to his championship run, not to mention underrated competition like a pre-anxiety issues Karo Parisyan, Jay Hieron, Mayhem, Frank Trigg etc.

– I don’t think highlight reels have anything to do with the “GOAT” discussion, just as I think wins and losses get overrated in the debate as well. People deem Muhammad Ali the “GOAT” from a boxing stand (rightfully so), but Ali had numerous losses and wasn’t always putting up highlight reel fights.

– People make so much of the “he pulled that sub out of nowhere!” but if you listen back to the fight, Rogan was warning about it, and anyone who knows (1) a thing or two about jiu-jitsu and (2) Sonnen’s allergy to submissions saw it coming. It was beautifully setup and impressive nonetheless, but I think it gets over-sold in hindsight.

– I think Anderson is neck-and-neck with GSP in the GOAT race, and can just as easily make a case for Silva as I can against him. My assignment was to present the cons, and while I hoped more people would see the validity in some of the points I’ve made, I fully understand the unbridled support Silva gets in this race.

Thanks for the comment.

I completely agree with you on Jones not yet being at Silva’s level of greatness, but think dismissing GSP simply based on the Matt Serra loss is short-sighted.

This sport is predicated on the notion that everyone loses at some point, and while Silva hasn’t lost in the UFC, he lost to journeyman like Daijue Takase and Ryo Chonan before coming into the organization. If we’re throwing out “but he lost to…” lines, those are only slightly better than losing to Serra, and GSP only lost once to a “really? he lost to that guy?” opponent.

How fighters win fights doesn’t factor into this conversation for me – it’s not a stylistic competition where guys are awarded bonus points for finishes and being exciting. A win is a win is a win, period. Anderson certainly has an edge by moving up to earn a pair of wins at LHW, but that, as I said in the piece, is indicative of the lack of competition he’s had at MW at times, which, to me, nullifies the bonus points from moving up.

I don’t understand how you can say, “we may never know Silva’s true potential as a fighter.”

14-0 in the UFC with a 5+ year reign atop the middleweight division has shown us his true potential. He clowns very, very good fighters and makes them look like amateurs. He is one of the greatest fighters in the history of the sport, without question.

Thanks Sam – you handed me a tough task both with the “con” side of this argument and following your knockout Part One.

I agree with you that Jones will enter this argument shortly if he continues the way he has throughout his career. I would also like to see him and Silva square off, but I’m not sure it will happen. Feels like too much of a risky situation from the UFC perspective with Jones: not a good look if your light heavyweight champ and company poster boy gets beat by an aging middleweight on his way out of the game. It’s be a huge fight in terms of PPV and anticipation, but Silva has bristled at the idea in the past.

We’ll have to see what happens.

Real evidence:

Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin, UFC: Silva vs. Irvin, July 19, 2008 – Win (TKO) 1:01, Round 1
Anderson Silva vs. Forrest Griffin, UFC 101, August 8, 2009 – Win (TKO) 3:23, Round 1

I didn’t say he could dominate with ease; I said he could fight at LHW with ease, and he’s proven that he’s capable of doing so by dispatching of both a journeyman veteran and a former light heavyweight champion without breaking a sweat in the past.

You can’t dismiss size just because of skills; Fedor Emelianenko was far more skilled than Antonio Silva, but “Bigfoot” and his massive size advantage won.

Yes, it’s an unknown, but ask anyone around the sport – fighters, managers, agents, media – and most will tell you Silva wins that match-up.

I have no idea what that means. Care to elaborate?

While I can certainly make a case for GSP as “The GOAT” above Silva (as I did here partially), I wouldn’t pick the French-Canadian welterweight champion if the two were ever to collide in the cage.

Listen, as great as GSP is, he’s not a big dude. Anderson Silva could fight at LHW with ease, and has a couple times in the past, including the time he laid a violent beating on a former LHW champion, Forrest Griffin.

St-Pierre has outstanding wrestling, there is no doubt about it, but he’s just not the same stature as someone like Sonnen, who cuts a solid chunk of weight to make the 185 pound limit.

As for where GSP sits amongst the best wrestlers in the sport, he’s behind a number of guys on my list, including a bunch of guys who competed internationally in the sport like Daniel Cormier, Mo Lawal, Ben Askren, Dan Henderson, and Chael Patrick Sonnen. He’s very good, don’t get me wrong, but there are little tricks of the trade and engrained things that these guys – and some US collegiate stars – have in their arsenal that GSP doesn’t.

His wrestling for MMA is outstanding, especially given that he comes from a Kyokushin karate base, but I wouldn’t put him at the top of the list.

Thanks for the comment!

Fivehole: it’s coming.