I believe Oscar is actually closer to 193-194 cm (Kennedy is 194cm) as he’s grown since being drafted or was listed incorrectly to begin with.

I think Rioli is so important to the Eagles because he sets up play, has incredible vision to move the ball, often starts in the centre square and provides more effective pressure than the other small forwards. He’s that rare combination of football nous, excellent skills and physical ability – much like Cyril really.

He’s just a different player who balances out the team between the midfield and forward line. However, I do think with Sheed and the addition of Kelly they now have two midfielders that can kick goals. Ryan is also rapidly developing into a much more versatile and valuable player than I thought he would be across the ground. And of course, Cripps is not as flashy but arguably elite for his position.

So I think the Eagles will cope but at the end of the day, if you replace Petruccelle with Rioli you have a much stronger team.

Agreed, but I would also throw Heppell into that category. Honestly, you could throw large parts of the Essendon list into that category. Players like Zaharakis, Hooker, Fantasia even Daniher etc have been treated as world-beaters after short veins of good form. Parties both externally and internally have consistently over-rated Essendon’s list, which imo explains the position the club finds itself in today.

Crikey, I knew Collingwood had a bad record in Grand Finals but having looked it up after this post, it is unbelievable. 44 appearances for 15-2-27.
That’s 27 losses, which is two less than Carlton’s 29 total appearances, which is the second most appearances after Collingwood. Probably old hat to most fans, but that is crazy.

As always, you can only judge these things with the benefit of hindsight and context.

It’s just too early to appraise Dusty’s place in the totality of Australian football. Especially so when we’re still debating his current standing.

You might argue that he’s the best current player, but you could convincingly make a case for Dangerfield or Fyfe. With Dangerfield playing at a higher level for longer and Fyfe at his peak, a force of nature.

Then there’s a player like Franklin who until recently has been consistently exceptional over more than a decade. Doing things that we’ve never seen before and statistically imperious in an era of those same defensive constraints.

It’s an outlandish statement because we just haven’t seen enough.

Well that was apropos of nothing. My underating of Geelong doesn’t suddenly make a coaching record good.

And indeed the wheels did fall off as most footy fans assumed they would. Ultimately losing to Collingwood, Richmond and just beating a shellshocked WC.

But yes, I will never doubt Geelong’s ability to play finals again. With the Cat’s h/a fixture advantage they have to be genuinely terrible to miss out.

I liked the ‘sic’ btw, did make me chuckle.

I don’t think that’s such a strong argument, Geelong isn’t even making Grand Finals under Scott.

If you’re using post 2007 stats he’s 1 GF from 5 prelims – that’s terrible. Compared with 3 GFs from 4.

Even less impressive, Geelong have finished 2,6,2,3,10,2,2,8,1 and made one (1) grandfinal.

I don’t understand how anyone could defend that record.

Oh please, if the AFL had a legitimately fair competition, Geelong wouldn’t have finished as high as they consistently do.

Yes, a fair system would see Geelong play their finals in Geelong. But it would also see Geelong play 11 games at home, one intra-Victorian match and the rest interstate, like every other Non-Melbourne based club. You can’t enjoy the benefits of both a proper home ground advantage and the minimal travel of a Melbourne based team only to cry foul when you play finals at the MCG.

It also cost West Coast a genuine shot at top 2.

As an Eagles fan, I felt losing that game was the end of our premiership hopes.

Realistically it’s near impossible to win a flag from WA finishing outside the top 2 and it appeared that on some level the club felt the same when they turned in that insipid effort against Hawthorn.

The Rioli debacle shattered any spirit gained in the Essendon win, but really it was that Richmond game that spelt the end of our season.

Hahaha. Yet another ‘Guest’ in the comments.

Is it really Marnie who’s trying to shoe-horn an argument in here?

I read an article describing how the game is poorer when we lose talented individuals who can offer different perspectives.

But then again I’m not looking for culture wars in everything i read…. And I read the article.

For the love of God can they please change their jumper and refresh their image. That GeoCities monstrosity has been terrible from day one and it brings the entire outfit down.

And give them extra soft cap space. The big issue for these clubs is drawing quality off-field talent. Assistant coaches are hard pressed to move their families on short contracts for limited remuneration. If a massive club in a football state like West Coast struggles with that, imagine how hard it is for the GC.

I was sceptical last year when the hypothetical of ‘is Collingwood’s midfield the best of all time’ was proferred after trading for Beams. You can’t judge something that you haven’t seen. There are too many variables. Form changes, injuries happen, setups are altered and at the end of the day, you can only fit so many midfielders in.

…. Who am I kidding? I’m incredibly excited. If we can keep Nic Nat fit, it’s going to be a complete and very entertaining midfield. Easily the best we’ve had since ’05, ’06.

Cats will always be around the mark by dint of their fixture/home ground advantage.

As no other club has both the luxury of a genuine home ground advantage and the minimal travel load of Victorian-based teams, they are incredibly hard to place. Their home/away dominance and poor finals record post-2011 speaks for itself, we’re dealing with a false economy.

I can’t see them being a Premiership threat with this list, but I do see them continuously making finals. This WC trade might actually be the making of their next premiership side because it gives them good picks that their ladder placings wouldn’t otherwise allow.

Hahaha well in that case enjoy the 3 slightly different replies.

On the the stadium, 80k just wouldn’t be viable. Even without access to the GF, it would just be too big for the demand. Really only West Coast would consistently draw 60k+ every week and that’s only 6 months or the year.

But it’s a huge draw atm and a big boost to the economy, I wouldn’t be shocked to see it expanded at some point.

I don’t know what’s wrong with my account/this website/cookies/whatever, but twice I articulated a much more worthy tl;dr response, but then lost my comment to the ether. So much more succinctly. (Seriously though, was it my use of the word pi ss ing? Really?

* Don’t want an um peeing contest, because it wasn’t the point of my post – was more finding parallels with Collingwood. Also deriving pleasure from supporting ‘the biggest’ club is absurd.

But regardless you’re incorrect.

* In 2019 according to Roy Morgan, WC is 2nd, Collingwood third, both trailing Sydney. Richmond sits 6th. Which isn’t that important, because conversion is more important, something I complemented Richmond on in my initial comment. Regardless you’re being bizarrely selective choosing 2017.

* Revenue is interesting because West Coast routinely generates the highest or second-highest, but none of that revenue is derived from gambling or ‘hospitality’. Unlike most Victorian clubs, Collingwood, Hawthorn and yes Richmond. Neither does WC have lucrative deals as Hawthorn does in Tasmania. It’s great that Collingwood & Richmond are finally divesting themselves. Further WC has a much smaller stadium, so doesn’t have the luxury of another 40,000 seats they could fill.

Instead, WC makes a killing because it has a large supporter base that is invested and buys merch and sponsors pay top dollar to be associated with the Eagles.

* Profit is actually unders. That figure doesn’t include the near $4 million the Eagles pay to the WAFC. $11 million-plus is a more accurate figure. Again West Coast pays a similar amount yearly.

* Membership, Tigers obviously the leaders, but WC sits second and is limited by Optus. That’s despite having a stadium that sits 40k less and 6k of the stadium’s seats are mandated as GA. Instead, WC has an MCC-like paid waiting list in both number and duration. So 30k plus members can’t even attend games.

And on the Southern Hemisphere, surprisingly and to the best of my knowledge, that’s true. Even the bigger South American clubs make considerably less money annually. But really it’s hard to compare as we have clubs and they aren’t valued/sold.

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Given my comment was part of a much larger post and in reference to the shared ground between West Coast and Collingwood and that deriving some sort of satisfaction in your club being ‘the biggest’ is absurd, I clearly wasn’t aiming for a pissing contest.

But regardless, you’re incorrect.

In 2019 Roy Morgan lists West Coast in 2nd and Collingwood 3rd for total supporters trailing Sydney. So you’re being selective there in using 2017 data. It doesn’t mean a whole lot because the more important number is the conversion rate which I was complementing Richmond on. Regardless, Richmond sits 6th.

Revenue is interesting because unlike most Victorian Clubs including Collingwood, Hawthorn and Richmond, West Coast doesn’t derive revenue from gambling or ‘hospitality’. It also doesn’t have the luxury of playing in a larger stadium or have lucrative deals as Hawthorn has in Tasmania. Fortunately, Collingwood and Richmond are looking to divest their income from gaming.

Instead the Eagles make a killing from merchandise sales because their large supporter base is still quite engaged and sponsors are happy to pay a fortune to be associated with West Coast.

On Profit, again $7.6 million is actually unders, because it doesn’t account for the near $4 million West Coast pays to the WAFC. A figure which might vary is paid every year to the WAFC and is deducted from the overall profit. A more accurate figure is $11 million-plus.

Membership numbers are fickle at the best of times, but West Coast still sits in 2nd. That is despite playing at a ground which sits 40,000 fewer people and of which 6,000 tickets must be reserved for GA. That means 30,000+ members aren’t able to go to a game. Instead, there is a paid MCC-like waiting list in both number and duration to become an Eagles member.

And on the Southern Hemisphere point, that is remarkably and to the best of my knowledge true. At least in financial terms. Even the biggest South American football clubs (Corinthians etc.) make considerably less money annually. But it’s hard to compare when football clubs aren’t valued or privately owned.

My comment clearly wasn’t meant as a pissing contest because deriving pleasure from your club being ‘the biggest’ is absurd, and I was using it as a point of comparison with Collingwood in a much longer post.

Regardless, you’re incorrect.

Going on Ray Morgan, West are 2nd and Collingwood 3rd in 2019, both are behind Sydney for what that’s worth. So you’re being selective, Richmond sits 6th.

That profit figure you cite is minus nearly $4 million paid to the WAFC. So it’s closer to $11 million and that gets paid every year.

Further and in contrast, none of West Coast’s revenue is derived from Gambling or ‘hospitality’ interests like Collingwood, Hawthorn or yes Richmond. Nor is it gained from cushy deals like the Hawks have in Tasmania. Thankfully Collingwood and Richmond are making some effort to divest themselves from gaming income.

Instead West Coast makes a killing because they have a large supporter base which buys merch and sponsors pay plenty to be associated with them.

Their membership trails Richmond, but that’s predominantly because it is limited by a much smaller stadium. Currently there is a paid waiting list to become a member that is almost MCC like in number and duration. That’s 90,000 + members and more than a third can’t get into see a game.

And the southern hemisphere point is to my knowledge correct. Financially at any rate. It surprised me too.

And finally, how the hell do you get paragraph spacing to stay in place!

A thoroughly enjoyable read Les. I’ve always found the Collingwood hate bemusing, but also part of the theatre of football. Your tracing of historical thread certainly adds some context to it. For better or worse, it is remarkable how singular Collingwood’s identity is.

In some ways, I see parallels between Collingwood and my club in West Coast. On most metrics, they are the two largest sporting clubs in Australia if not the southern hemisphere and both can suffer from the hubris that generates. The Eagles were clearly too arrogant during the early 2000s and lacked the introspection to fix the problems that should have been self-evident.

Adelaide is another cautionary tale of basing success upon balance sheets and supporter numbers, eventually, the culture deteriorates and supporters understandably lose faith if not interest.

In comparison, Richmond has done a remarkable job in their transition to AFL powerhouse. Their membership record is all the more remarkable considering their latent supporter base wasn’t as large as other Melbourne clubs such as Essendon or even Carlton. They recognised that their strength would grow through membership engagement and conversion. In turn, they’ve utilised their MCG tenancy which allows for huge crowds to swell their numbers and project real strength, which in turn propagates further success.

Hong Kong via surface to air balloon system.

Equalisation you know.

Christ, imagine how many premierships WC would win if the GF was in WA. Such a quality club really.

Hear hear.

West Coast couldn’t go back to back in 93′ when they had a superior team. It’s bloody hard winning the premiership from the west. Our strike rate and consistency across seasons is remarkable given the travel.

For mine, it wasn’t the Hawthorn loss that broke us, but the Richmond loss. Top four isn’t the same for a WA team. You can’t finish 3rd/4th and play in your home city unless by some fluke, Freo manages to finish top two.

We were just a bit off all year and it cost us top two. In the end as Simpson admits, we just weren’t good enough. And in such an even comp where a win and percentage separates the top 5, even 5% off will get you.

Having won the premiership, the Eagles had serious work put into them and a tougher draw. And perhaps the hunger wasn’t there, it certainly wasn’t consistent.

But the Eagles will be back, because they always are. Hopefully JK will get a proper pre-season and go out on top. Regardless, there is plenty of talent in the wings. TK will be more than handy in the middle.

Rioli was an absolute gut punch, both for his role in the team and how devastating it is that his career might be over. Such a bright spark extinguished by sports drink stupidity. But honestly I’m pretty fortunate to be an Eagles supporter. And you don’t have to look far to gain some perspective.

Just let the Eagles love wash over you and surrender to the err plucky underdogs in the West.

And really Collingwood and WC are pretty similar. They’re arguably the two biggest sporting clubs in the Southern Hemisphere, both aren’t particularly liked by opposition supporters and both have birds as mascots.

Naitanui is a ‘franchise player’, his value is invaluable to the club when you consider his football, his community outreach and his marketing contribution.

He’s essentially been with WC since his mid-teens. You re-sign the bloke. It’s a display of integrity by the club. And the alternative would be a terrible look to the players.

I’m just stoked to have him out there. He’s an incredible player and somehow despite the hype, still criminally underrated.

Fyfe and Walker don’t even belong in the same sentence and I’m an Eagles supporter.

Fyfe might share the ego, but he weekly dominates games. If you can cash the cheques, you allow some latitude.

While I agree with the bulk of your sentiment Ryan, I think Geelong skews the numbers.

Geelong plays more than a handful of games every year at the G and reside around the corner. And more often than not, when they have a decent team they perform well there. In my opinion travel and opportunity play a much larger factor in the ‘hoodoo’.

What people really mean with the MCG Factor, is that non-Victorian teams can’t win at the G. They rarely play there and have to travel when they do, more often than not against it well supported (Melbourne excluded) and in recent history, strong opponents.

Sure some non-Victorian teams have had better luck at Docklands, but that’s saying more about the opposition they face there.