Ah! Seems my hazy recollections of the article i read on the origins of Puma rugby was off base. From other comments, it seems there was a 1960’s connection with Bok rugby. Thanks for setting me straight!

Regardless of origin though, i think its’s fair to draw comparisons on style of play of the Pumas and Boks in years gone by. Seems (in my opinion anyway) that these styles have diverged in recent years, paying dividends for the Pumas.

“Nick Phipps has played his last game” Agree. White made it to the breakdown quicker, gave flatter quicker service and raised the tempo of the attack. Option taking was spot on too as evidenced by his try. Phipps should count himself lucky if he goes to the RWC in any capacity at all.

“Bernard Foley is gone as well. Matt Toomua will be the 10 at Eden Park” Ideally. it remains to be seen if Cheika suffers from the same self-destructing loyalty to players that Heyneke Meyer suffers from.

Toomua played flat on the advantage line and ran straight from he get go, giving the players outside him forward momentum and space in which to operate. 9-10-12 axis has to be White-Toomua-Giteau.

“Giteau will be pressed by the presence of Kurtley Beale off the bench” Wishful thinking. Beale was fairly anonymous from the bench where as Giteau has been exactly the influence the men gold have needed for the past few seasons. Clearly time operating in tandem with the consummate professional, Johnny wilkinson, has matured Giteau and revitalized his game. Giteau has done more than enough to lay claim to the 12 jersey imo. Rotation with toomua in the 10-12 channels will add excellent variation to the attack.

“One Test win doesn’t make a season, but three in a row against the calibre of the Boks, Pumas, and All Blacks is more than meaningful, it’s bloody magnificent” this in my mind has been the problem with the wallabies in recent times, CONSISTENCY. A RWC is won on the back of 7 consecutive wins. When was the last time the Wallabies managed to string together that many wins on the trot?

Regardless, the team is in a good space atm. Here’s hoping that something magical happens next Saturday night!

1. start of season vs end of season. 2 weeks conditioning. boks will have enough puff.

2. cant argue here. pienaar box kicks have to be the slowest, most telegraphed kicks in world rugby.

3. burger is a better ball player, better fetcher, much more experienced and has a much bigger impact on a game. massive net gain imo.

4. François Louw. seriously. watch northern hemisphere rugby. or stormer games from a few years back. also: bismark du plessis usually gets a couple of turn overs per game. which is on par for most recognised fetchers. Marcel coetzee and Burger also contribute in the fetching department. honestly, South Africa are well represented in this department.

5. I imagine this is a criticism of pollards option taking. will admit he’s still inexperienced and having de allende and pienaar on either side of him will mean he will have to grow up very quickly. let’s see how he goes.

6. heh. This is a first. never thought I would see the day that someone accused heyneke meyer of not having a game plan. kick-and-chase? territory? pressure defence and counter – attack? one thing meyer ALWAYS has is a plan.

1. start of season vs end of season. 2 weeks conditioning. boks will have enough puff.

2. cant argue here. pienaar box kicks have to be the slowest, most telegraphed kicks in world rugby.

3. burger is a better ball player, better fetcher, much more experienced and has a much bigger impact on a game. massive net gain imo.

4. François Louw. seriously. watch northern hemisphere rugby. or stormer games from a few years back. also: bismark du plessis usually gets a couple of turn overs per game. which is on par for most recognised fetchers. Marcel coetzee and Burger also contribute in the fetching department. honestly, South Africa are well represented in this department.

5. I imagine this is a criticism of pollards option taking. will admit he’s still inexperienced and having de allende and pienaar on either side of him will mean he will have to grow up very quickly. let’s see how he goes.

6. heh. This is a first. never thought I would see the day that someone accused heyneke meyer of not having a game plan. kick-and-chase? territory? pressure defence and counter – attack? one thing meyer ALWAYS has is a plan.

“If you look through our bench we have some exceptional leaders, with James and David having captained their country at different stages of their careers.”

ouch. horwill is clearly chopped liver.

” best players in the world, 10 years ago mind you”

So that’s a no to Wilkinson and Mishalak being included in that “best players in the world” category?

Seriously. Find Toulon footage. Watch it. Rugby does not start and end with Super rugby and Rugby Championship.

fair comments I feel.

In order to win the World cup, you need to be able to string together 7 (I think? memory fails me at the moment) wins on the trot and beat at least one of the top 3 rugby playing nations. Currently, there are only three teams that hold this pedigree: All Blacks, South Africa, England. Hardly earth shattering news, but odds are one of these three will be crowned world champions.

France may or may not beat a top 3 team. Australia falls into the same category as Argentina, Wales and Ireland: very competitive, will have some good games, ultimately lose out to one of the three contenders mentioned above.

Other teams may ambush a top team but otherwise form part of the “also ran” category.

“I always felt Giteau’s play changed when Larkham retired, He looked great outside Larkham but when left to his own device’s especially when he went to the force looked a bit rattled & unsure”

These comments are very dated. I assume you haven’t had the opportunity to watch a toulon game or two?

yep, that’s me living life in the fast lane, dangerous but logical 🙂

“big shift in the centres that I would make, which Cheika will undoubtedly not make. Tevita Kuridrani at inside centre and Adam Ashley-Cooper at outside centre” The problem in a nutshell with Australian rugby thinking in recent times. Kuridrani was a standout 13 last season, so keep him there. Part of the reason he was so good is because 13 affords him more space (further away from the loose forward cover defence) and allows him to get 1-on-1 matchups which he usually dominates. Why move rob him of his strength just to shoe horn AAC into the team? let’s hope Cheika has more sense.

Also, having watched a few of Toulon’s games, I feel Giteau needs to get a run at 10 for the wallabies. At Toulon, he marshaled their attack magnificently. Stack hard running/elusive players outside him (ala kuridrani, folau, tomane and perhaps beale though I’m not sure he can handle the rigours of defending 12 against a nonu or de allande) and the Aussie backline will deliver the goods. Giteau should be partnered with Phibbs.

Pollard misses a lot of kicks at poles in a green and gold jersey. Whereas Morne Steyn’s a 90% kicker regardless of jersey. Both times SA won the RWC, they did it by kicking all their penalties in a final. Seems to me Steyn is one of the more obvious choices for a tilt at the Bill.

Tim! Nanai! Williams! Hope he has a solid outing. Talented player.

This is a good point. Pollard did not cover himself in glory in the opening games against Argentina, yet Meyer persisted with playing him. Massive pay day for coach’s faith in the Ellis park test against the ABs. Stability and backing the player breeds confidence and allows that player to reach his potential.

With the Wallabies, every game (regardless of win or loss) is greeted with proposed changes to the back-line. Lack of certainty from the coach has the players skittish and it shows in their game.

I think ARU have a lot to answer for in selecting McK over Jake White.

Hall mark of White’s coaching style is immersing his players in the traditions and culture of the team they play for. Great example with his turn around of the Brumbies and I would add the Boks after Straueli/Viljoen. You can be sure toxic players like Beale would not be allowed anywhere near the Wallaby setup.

Contrast with McK who seems to want to be on BFF terms with his players. Probably not the best approach with a relatively young team containing players with a history of off-field indiscretions.

And before anyone makes comments on “Jakeball”, a few points:
1. Compare White’s international win record with that of McKenzie’s
2. Compare the “style” that the Wallabies are playing at the moment (with particular reference to their last three outings against the AB’s, the Boks and the Pumas)
3. Consider the furore surrounding the off-field issues IN A WEEK LEADING UP TO A TEST MATCH AGAINST THE NUMBER ONE SIDE IN THE WORLD.
For mine, I pick Jake White ahead of McK all day everyday. ARU need to take a long hard look at themselves and honestly assess what they have done to Australian rugby.

Was wondering, when foley was subbed with Beale, why didn’t Toomua move into 10 (think White was still on the field…Brumbies half back combo) and Beale move into 12 (think AAC was playing 13 at this stage…Waratahs combo)? Felt that I was missing some level of Link’s thinking, would love to know what it was.

“And he’ll give tighthead Sekope Kepu a level of oomph from behind that Kepu has never felt at Test level before.”

Had to read that twice….oh myyyyyyyy!

Think this article would be great as a weekly.

And agree with Dru, would be great to get something similar for the other conferences!

@Roar eds: should Melon agree to post a regular on Aussie team of the week, would it be possible to get a notification when his article is up?

Only example I can think of is Francois Steyn who started at 10, moved out into 15, played a couple of games at 14 and eventually ended up at 12. About the only example of a 10/15 who played on the wing that I can think of offhand….

+1

JGITF works!

went one phase too long, should’ve had QC peel around to the blindside, set up a 3 v 2

Heh. My “motivate below” turns out to be a above my other comment. ah well.

I’ve had a chance to have another look at the highlights of the game. You’re right, Smith’s first try was an unopposed run-in off the work of Cruden drawing the defender who should have been in front of Smith. The third try was a fortuitous gather with nothing but the line in front of him. Arguably, any international winger could have scored the hattrick on the end of that All Black line, so on the evidence of this weekend alone, hard to call Smith best 14 in the world. And that’s the problem any All Black wingers face when trying to get credit for their play; the All Black line is so good that any tries the winger scores is credited to the efforts of the inside players.

So why do I think Smith deserves to head the list for best 14 in the world:

1. Always in the right place at the right time. It’s useless having the best service in the world if you’re not there to capitalise on it.

2. Never fluffs a chance. He collected that out the back pass by Cruden and beat out the cover defence to score the try.

3. Eye for the opportunity. In the third try, the Wallaby defenders made their defensive lapse because they had their heads stuck in the ruck. Smith was aware of his surroundings, pounced on the chance and converted it to points.

4. Complete skillset. Kicks well, beats defenders when called upon to do so, fields kicks well and defends admirably.

I discount Speigt, Jane and Ranger as they’re either injured or not playing at the highest possible level where there is less space to exploit and time to make decisions. Israel Folau has not performed consistently at this level to warrant a place on the short list. I can live with Bowe and Habana. There’s an argument for Habana as he often has to engineer his own try scoring opportunities. However, Habana’s skillset is not as well rounded as Smith’s (though it has improved with time). I think Smith’s time at fullback for the Highlanders has made him a more rounded player, not just a finisher, but as a lethal open-space runner, safe under the high ball and excellent kicker out of hand.

If North moved to 14, I would probably accept that he is a very strong (and consistent) contender too.

Yeah, realised on a reread of my article that these two statements (about Ben Smith and Fourie du Preez) were on the bold side and perhaps a little premature.

Naming du Preez as best 9 in the world on the evidence of 30 minutes against a lacklustre Pumas side…think I may need to retract until after the All Black and Wallaby games. That said though, he did look very sharp when he came on and had an immediate impact on the effectiveness of the Bok attack. His job was made easy by a rampant Bok pack, but geez it was great seeing him in full flow again.

As has been picked up lower down in this thread, I completely forgot about Habana! In my defence though, he has played most of his rugby at 11. As noted below, there are plenty of players with a strong claim for the title of best 14. In my opinion, Smith tops the shortlist. Will motivate below on a later comment.

Have to be honest, I wrote this article directly after the Bok game and submitted it at the beginning of the week. Reading over it now, I’ve realised that some of my opinions have shifted slightly after reading some of the other pieces on this site. That said though, I’m unmoved on my opinion of Richie Mccaw. And I think Scott Allen’s analysis of Hooper’s performance relative to Mccaw’s only confirms my believe that he’s the best in the game.

All the reasons that fans of other teams hate Mccaw are what makes him great. No one slows ball like he does (arguably an openside’s primary role in defence, when engineering a turnover is not possible) and gets away with it as often as he does. Mccaw is a master of playing the ref, being in the right place at the right time and making the right decisions. His accomplishments speak for themselves. Multiple Super Rugby, Bledisloe and Trinations trophies along with the coveted Bill.

Admittedly, there have been games when Mccaw has been outplayed on a fetching front. Brussow in 2009 springs to mind and I’m sure George Smith put one over him every so often. However, Brussow has failed to adapt to the changes in break-down rules since 2009 (which has impacted on the impact he has on a game) while Smith has elected to ply his trade away from the international spotlight.

I realise that my opinion on Mccaw is just that. An opinion. I’m happy to defend it against criticism and recognise that there are other opinions out there (which I will no doubt criticise :D). Speaking of, who do you rate as the best ever?

Must admit that I disagree with the three main points raised in this article! However, that’s the joy of reading a site like The Roar, I get to engage with opinions different to my own, and hopefully become aware of issues I missed, or understand better why I hold a certain opinion.

As I see it, the points raised in this article are:

1. Ban Springboks plying their trade overseas from playing in a Bok jersey. While I appreciate that it may be demotivating for players playing locally to have their “loyalty” (and I think it’s little harsh to paint players playing overseas as disloyal…a lot of these players are still fervent patriots of the Republic from what I can make out from interviews) ignored in favour of overseas players, there are number off benefits of playing overseas players:

A) Having top flight players playing overseas lessens the financial burden of their top tier salaries on SARU. i.e. UK/French clubs fit the bill for top-tier SA player salaries in the domestic season while SARU reaps the reward of the players’ experience in the International season. Hopefully SARU uses the money saved to develop the game at grassroots level.

B) Most players’ skills improve with a stint overseas, Percy Montgomery and Francois Louw being the obvious examples. SA rugby benefitted from allowing these players an overseas stint.

C) Forcing top-tier players to stay in SA results in them becoming entrenched in their local franchises which results in little to no opportunity for the next tier to gain experience at the next level. For example, Brad Barrit who was probably in the form of his life for the Sharks in 2007 but realised there was no getting past Jean de Villiers and Jacque Fourie for a Bok position. Also, consider how many Bulls flyhalves had been stuck behind Morne Steyn for the past few years. Allowing players who have represented SA to play overseas allows the next tier to gain experience while retaining the top players for SA’s exclusive use (as they already have an international cap).

D) The local players still have an advantage over the overseas players as they’re the players that the coach has seen the most of in a given year. If overseas players are being preferred it means (to my mind at any rate) that the local players are not up to snuff. Why should the coach be shackled to inferior choices when better players are available?

2.The Bok’s playing style under Heyneke Meyer is not up to standard. Here I disagree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, Australian media seems to be fixated with the idea of “free-flowing, champagne rugby” and seems to want to impose this template on all teams playing the game. However, this is a style that best suits a team made up of smaller players with quick feet and high levels of fitness. Essentially, the Boks don’t have the cattle for this type of game.

And why should Boks blindly follow another nation’s gameplan? SA players are big, quick and strong. The gameplan best suited to SA players is the plan being implemented by HM. First outmuscle and subdue, play expansively once the first step has been executed. I believe HM has the best possible gameplan for SA rugby and the plan most likely to beat the All Blacks and the Wallabies.

3. Wrong blend of players in the Bok squad. I actually thought that HM had managed to get the blend of youth and experience 100% correct for the game against Argentina. Consider the Robbie Deans Wallabies team. Wholesale axe job on the old heads, a whole bunch of new players in the team. The team never had a settle feel to it and the off-field antics of some elements of the team pointed to a lack of leadership in the side.

Now consider the All Blacks. How many players are in their 30s compared to “young” players? Julian Savea is probably the youngest player in the team, and he’s been in the setup for two years! Ma’a Nonu is still in the team despite a very average Super Rugby season this year. And the All Blacks are still the best team in the world. Slowing phasing in new players ensures continuity of traditions and gives the younger players a framework of what is expected of them.

Bringing back Fourie du Preez is a masterstroke by HM. Imagine the level of mentoring some of the younger players will receive for a player of his calibre? And I would think Bok fans would welcome Bakkies’ (and Victor’s!) involvement in the Bok setup, passing on hard-earned experience!