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Great article Rosie, not only conjures up nostalgia but some insight into our past sporting glories. Love or loathe Armstrong types, the ruthless ones DO get results.
On the issue of McDonald, he was ahead of his time and inspired Larwood as indeed Larwood inspired a young Ray Lindwall. All athletically endowed and all feared for their skills. Your reference to Bradman: McDonald was 39 , Bradman 21 yet McDonald bowled the latter for 9. “It was hard to visualise a more beautiful action which, coupled with splendid control and real pace, made him the most feared bowler in England at that time,” was Bradman’s estimation against the expat. Apparently the games that were must see in England at the time was Lancashire v Barnes’ team, like two heavyweight champions going toe to toe.
Ashes anniversaries: Armstrong’s Australians
But remember, Renato, England had Barnes at his menacingly best.
Ashes anniversaries: Armstrong’s Australians
I’m reading this two years after your hilarious post, Once upon a time.
It may have emanated from Graham Gooch’s phone message:
“I’m out, probably LBW Alderman.” priceless!
Ashes anniversaries: Armstrong’s Australians
Curly got upset once during a tour game. He’d scored a ton when Trumper let him get run out. “Gotta give the other batters a go Curly!” Sound advice. There’s bibs and bobs out there. What is quite extraordinary is that he, Cotter, Ransford and Oldfield ALL went to Forest Lodge PS together, where Curly’s dad was principal. ALL played for Oz. Must be some kind of record. Our cricket past certainly is QI!
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
You’re on to it All day! Have you ever read how poor old Dainty got the two finger stumps that allowed him to impart so much spin on the ball? A. real yarn about a real character of cricket.
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
Don’t forget All day, the same applied in England in ’48. How much better would the Poms have been with Farnes and Verity.
Ah! the vagaries of life!
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
Can’t agree with that last sentence, All day. 1920 it was all Jack Gregory who terrified the English whist Mailey bamboozled them for 36 wickets
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
Sheek, not “Bradman’s rules,” rather, Armstrong’s that’s how he did it in ’19-’21 when he wasn’t beaten in Tests.
And… don’t overlook left hand orthodox like Saunders, same effect as right hand leggies. Then there was Whitty and Toshack.
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
So you say, Pope Paul. Unlikely. Remember what Verity did to Braddles twice in one day in ’34
and according to Wilf “he weren’t half the bowler Barnie were. I doubt whether he would have taken Warne apart, either.
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
Hi All Day
If Bradman, as a batter, can be regarded as the greatest cricketer, why not Barnes?
One notion, your excellent story conjures up is: how good would Bradman have been against Barnes, or indeed, Warne?
And interestingly, the answer could come from an unlikely source. Clarrie Grimmett (who may have a bias against the Don for dropping him from the test team) believed that Braddles was suspect to accurate, sustained leg breaks. Hedley Verity, a left arm offie certainly showed that.
But another tidbit for you and your readers: Warren Bardsley, one of Barnie’s victims in that series and again in England, apparently had nightmares about the bowler to the point that he had to change his batting: stance, backswing the lot. You reckon when he retired from all cricket in his fifties, he would nominate Barnes as the greatest bowler he faced. You reckoned wrong?
To whom did he give the palm? Jack Marsh.
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
Great assessment of Sydney F. He, like his contemporaries had a huge advantage from uncovered pitches which probably enhanced his figures and detracted from the oppositions’ averages.
Omitting him from England’s 1902 side probably cost England the Ashes as he was the only bowler who could “keep Victor quiet.”
Overall he was an ornery cuss, who, when he didn’t get his own way, sulked and underperformed.
In fact his own captain Archie McLaren, bemoaning an approaching gale when sailing to Australia, said,”At least that bugger Barnes will go down with us.”
Like Bradman, an extraordinary performer, but definitely NOT a team man.
PS He only played 7 tests but “Ranji Hordern” averaged 6.57 wickets per test and Betty Wilson, 6.18 @ 11.8 (still not surpassed in test cricket). A fresh debate on the “greatest cricketer?” Same argument as Margaret Court or Serena Williams in tennis. Oh! and Betty’s batting average was 57.6. The first cricketer, in a test, to score a ton and take 10 wickets, with a hat trick to boot. Frank Foster meet those standards, Sheek? (lol)
Ashes Anniversaries: 6229 wickets at 8.33 - happy 150th to the 'finest bowler there ever was'
Eddie Gilbert, Tibby Cotter, Ernie Jones and Jack Gregory
Why Victor Trumper remains unrivalled as the greatest batting exponent in history
10,000 that day according to Yabba?
Why Victor Trumper remains unrivalled as the greatest batting exponent in history
Once upon a time: How does 7 wickets per test @16 grab you. So good a leg spinner he didn’t HAVE to utilise the googly. Statistically a better bowler than Bradman was a batter: meet SYDNEY FRANCIS BARNES who rated Trumper the “most difficult to dictate terms to.” In 1911/12 he had Australia 5/1 from 11 overs and Trumper wasn’t one of them. In that series, five Tests, Trumper was the ONLY Australian who scored a century and he was 34yo.
Why Victor Trumper remains unrivalled as the greatest batting exponent in history
…and Bradman, remember he was inspired asa teen by the Governor General
in the early 20s.
Why Victor Trumper remains unrivalled as the greatest batting exponent in history
Miller could bat, so could Hassett!
Why Victor Trumper remains unrivalled as the greatest batting exponent in history
Totally agree Renato, as to your comments Paul:
1. Of the players you nominated only Hobbs opened. The others had great players before them
taking the shine and pace off the ball and it’s hardness.
2. Hobbs strike rate was pedestrian compared to Trumper. He even said he admired Trumper’s
“audacity’ and range of shots, which he himself never tried to emulate. Hobbs was boring and
consistent.
Why Victor Trumper remains unrivalled as the greatest batting exponent in history
Picking someone out of position is the first cardinal sin of team selection. And how could you pick Tendulkar over Sewage: compare their strike rates!
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
You should read “10-66 and all that” by Arthur Mailey. He played against Bradman and Trumper. He also spoke highly of Hobbs, McCartney and Woolley. He gave the palm to both Trumper and Bradman but I think he was too scared of the Don to say what he really thought.
Grimmett wasn’t. He declared that Bradman’s weakness was accurate sustained leg spin bowling and Trumper had none!
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
Don’t agree Renato. Trumper and Hill would throw a cricket ball between wickets from third man to long off, maybe 100 yards. How many people can do that today.
Jack Marsh, excluded because of OUR Apartheid and our fastest runner was also thought to be our fastest ever bowler. Clean bowled Vic when he was a young man. That would have been QUICK!
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
I see your logic, Once Upon a Time, but Bradman started in big cricket only thirty years after Trumper, whereas Labuschagne almost ninety years after Bradman.
You have to look at the respective skills.
Trumper played in a style and with a range of shots that have never been emulated. Bradman was too careful and exacting. Consistent, controlled.
Besides in 1928 Bradman was NOT the new Trumper, Jackson was. Mailey knew it, so did Doc Evatt. Jackson debuted, at 19 with 164, Bradman with 18 and a duck and got dropped.
But for TB, there would be no doubt as to who would be the greater out of those two.
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
You struggle because you have succumbed to the Bradman myth, nurtured carefully from when he was a player. Probably when he got the ton in three eight ball overs against a Lithgow XI.
A point that no one has raised about these two players. Bradman constantly focussed on himself
writing, giving interviews, Trumper, as they say, “Was as dumb as an oyster, humble to the core.”
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
Don’t forget when he scored 18 out of 36 in 1902!
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
Renato
You’ve done well again. On the issue of contemporaries and their estimation Trumper:
According to Peter Sharpham, Alan Kippax asked Rhodes who was his greatest adversary and he replied (with the name forming on his lips first) Trumper. And the way Trumper treated Rhodes (and Hirst) I’m not surprised.
And Barnes…”he was the most difficult to dictate terms to..”
What did Hill say “I wasn’t fit to lick Vic’s boots”
Mackay “I was the candle to his electric light.”
McLaren “I was a cart horse to a derby winner.”
McCartney “I wasn’t fit to carry Vic’s bag.”
Do we believe Fingleton’s version of the innings of 335? That one ball sailed OVER the Hunter Boot
Factory and landed in a garden in Douglas Street. I’ve been there. It would have to be a hit with a horizontal distance of 200+ metres. In today’s Big Bash Leagues they get into a lather when a hit is 80m.
Fair to say, there will never be another Bradman but NEVER will there be another Trumper
Australia's greatest: Bradman or Trumper?
Thank you Rosie. But….too hard to compare teams. Bradman DID design the makeup of his ’48 team on Armstrongs. Too many similarities to be coincidental. Armstrong was in England in ’48
as a correspondent. He said his side would give Bradman’s a run for their money but he went on to say that “Twenty two of my chaps couldn’t beat the team of 1902.”
A final assessment would have to be the quality of the opposition. ’20/21 and ’48 were English sides considerably weakened by the ravages of war whereas ’02 was thought to be England’s strongest.
We’ll never know.
Ashes anniversaries: Armstrong’s Australians