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Joined June 2015
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Have played club rugby, coached club & sub-district rugby & been a level 2 referee & referee coach. Also played enough cricket as an opening bowler to make sure my knees are totally useless!
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I was at the game & can tell you it went forward. He stuck his hand out to stop it getting to Beale who only had to catch it to score. Any other ref would have given a penalty try & a yellow card. Gardner obviously didn’t see it because he first ruled a knock-on against Beale. He only changed his mind after the replay.
Waratahs win after the siren
Fact is often weirder than fiction.
You’ve probably forgotten the huge stink Gavin Hastings raised in the aftermath of the Scotland game. Vitriolic abuse flew all over the place against Joubert. I guess the fact that one of his best mates, then boss of the World Cup refs, also a former Scottish international takes the unprecedented step of telling the world Joubert was wrong, is just a coincidence. That vindictive action against Joubert, shattered him & finished his career.
The reference to Jeffrey’s past wast just to illustrate the type of person he is.
I was particularly upset by the whole episode because, as a former referee, I thought it a disgraceful precedent to set & huge disincentive to any referee to aspire for the highest level.
Craig Joubert retiring from Test rugby
Taylorman, the Chairman of the World Rugby Match Official Selection Commitee was John Jeffrey, former Scottish international. His decision to publicly denounce Joubert was an indignant reaction to Scotland losing because of the decision. At the very least you would have to question whether he had a conflict of interest.
Craig Joubert retiring from Test rugby
You mean ClarkeG’ s comment, don’t you, stillmissit?
Craig Joubert retiring from Test rugby
Yes, I did, ClarkeG. I posted it on 22nd October 2015, which was at the time!
What do you mean by seriously? Do you have a problem with what I wrote?
Craig Joubert retiring from Test rugby
And their scrum will have turned into the laughingstock that the Wallabies scrum became when he coached us.
Is this really the Australian way?
Here’s a comment I posted in a Spiro article when Joubert was hung out to dry after the Scotland game. Looks like Jeffrey finally got his man.
SPIRO: Joubert has been dudded by World Rugby for correct call
22 Oct 2015
Whether Joubert made a technically correct or incorrect decision is no longer relevant. It is the aftermath that is important here. A bitter and vitriolic former Scotttish international, Gavin Hastings, and his former Scottish team mate, John Jeffrey, in his role of Chairman of the World Rugby Match Official Selection Committee, have, in their own ways, reacted disgracefully and taken revenge on a leading international referee. By the way, how does the man who almost destroyed the Calcutta Cup in 1988 on a drunken rampage get to hold a senior position in World Rugby? Old mates club, I guess. In case you don’t know what I’m talking about, you can read about it here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9837785/Six-Nations-2013-The-drunken-night-when-Dean-Richards-and-John-Jeffrey-trashed-the-Calcutta-Cup.html
Craig Joubert retiring from Test rugby
You know, ClarkeG & RedandBlack, I’ve enjoyed the chat about the interpretation but when all’s said and done, I really think Peyper missed it. I don’t think he thought about loitering or milking or anything else. He was tired and didn’t pick it up. I refereed hundreds of games and can certainly think back to things I just didn’t see. It must be enormously difficult to maintain the concentration at the pace of a modern test match.
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
ClarkeG, Milking is not covered under foul play. The directive you refer to was intended to stop diving. Fair enough if Peyper wasn’t too keen to reward Phipps’ milking but as soon as Farrell kicked the ball forward he should have penalized Vunipola. His was the first offense & England should not have been allowed to score a try.
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
Walker was pretty good, I admit, but certainly not in the same class as Mark Ella. I guess I was talking more about when the style was played at international level under Dwyer. Alan Jones used it but added more kicking through Lynagh.
Is this really the Australian way?
Hi Nick, I really enjoyed the article. I have a slightly different take on what Cheika is calling the Australian way. It’s really the Randwick way, not surprising given Cheika’ coaching background. The Galloping Greens would run the ball from anywhere. That’s the prevailing memory, although they also had very good kickers when required.
The Randwick way involves a forward pack that fiercely attacks every breakdown, particularly when carrying the ball. Most importantly it requires a 5/8 standing very flat with quick hands, ability to read space brilliantly, good step & pace and an attitude of always chasing the ball to be in a position to back up. In reality it only ever really worked when Mark Ella was 5/8.
Spectacular as it may be, this style hasn’t worked for many years. How long has it been since Randwick dominated Shute Shield? It doesn’t work at higher levels either.
I’m all in favour or running rugby but it has a much better chance to succeed when it is blended with other options to keep the defense guessing.
Is this really the Australian way?
You’re missing the point completely. Loitering offside and getting in the way of the halfback to prevent quick ball is not a technical penalty it is deliberate cheating and is totally against the spirit of the game. “Milking” is not an offense.
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
The referee is never correct to ignore a penalty infringement. All it does is encourage teams to cheat, especially when they are rewarded with a try on top of not being penalized.
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
By which you mean he’s not from Qld. Right, Terry?
Roar Forum: What changes should the Wallabies make for 2017?
With a Red jersey on he will become Superman!
Roar Forum: What changes should the Wallabies make for 2017?
Of course he didn’t, Die Hard. No All Black would ever throw his arms up, look imploringly at the ref & hurl himself into the ground after an innocuous bump from a player he was trying to obstruct a second earlier. It’s clearly not the Kiwi way and I unreservedly apologise to you and any other Kiwi that I may have offended for suggesting that any All Black would do anything at any time in any way outside the spirit of the game.
My goodness, what was I thinking?
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
I’m with you on this one, Fionn, except you left out the bit about taking over the champion Brumbies side from Rod MacQueen & leading them to mediocrity before doing the same with the Wallabies. He turned our scrum into a world joke that we’re still trying to recover from. He’ll do the same to England. I see a lot of similarities in technique between Dan Cole & Bill Young, Eddie’s favorite Wallaby prop.
Roar Forum: What changes should the Wallabies make for 2017?
Now there’s a conspiracy theory for you! And the basis for this remarkable insight is….?
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
There is a big difference between a Hollywood dive a la Savea and Brown & a halfback deliberately being impeded by a forward cynically sitting in his way who tries to make sure the ref sees and acts on it.
I refereed lots of Kiwis and Kiwi teams in my time and they were generally pretty happy with my performance. I let the game flow when I could, made sure advantage was taken in a reasonably quick timeframe (as opposed to the endless phases that is now the norm) and always penalized illegal play unless there was an immediate and obvious advantage to the non offending team. I would never view having a try scored against the non offending team as an advantage to them.
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
But we’re not getting consistency and fairness. I have been a referee & referee coach and I would lambaste any referee who ignored the laws of the game to make a point about “milking”, especially when it means that a penalty that should have been awarded to one team becomes a converted try to the offending team.
England 37-21 Wallabies: Eddie Jones has last laugh over Michael Cheika
Lots of people seem to be forgetting TPN. He’s our best scrummaging hooker by a long margin.
Roar Forum: What changes should the Wallabies make for 2017?
No, he’ll fully regain fitness & confidence from his injury at RWC and you’ll be insisting there’s a NSW conspiracy if he’s not made Wallabies captain & awarded John Eales medalist.
Roar Forum: What changes should the Wallabies make for 2017?
I think it wouldn’t hurt to look at what the laws actually say. Here is Law 7.
7 Advantage
PRINCIPLE
If a team gains an advantage following an infringement by their opponents, the referee may allow play to continue in an effort to keep the game flowing.
1. Advantage:
a. May be tactical. The non-offending team is free to play the ball as they wish.
b. May be territorial. Play has moved towards the offending team’s dead-ball line.
c. May be a combination of tactical and territorial.
d. Must be clear and real. A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient.
The important one here is d.
Referees need to understand this. Andre Watson was the first to bring in the extended advantage in the hope that the non-offending team might eventually gain an advantage. It’s been a blight on the game ever since.
When I refereed, I was taught a couple of things about interpreting advantage that seem to have slipped out of usage. Firstly, that advantage had to be significant and secondly, that it had to be timely. The whole idea of allowing 20 + phases of play was unthinkable, yet now is the norm.
The result of a team receiving a penalty is not necessarily that they score a try. Often they should just get a penalty. Waiting for extended periods for an advantage to occur is not just boring for spectators, it’s against law 7d.
The other aspect of this is that the offending team will often re-offend, to the extent that desperate defenders will end up with yellow cards for offences that happen many fruitless phases after the original infringement. if the referees followed law 7.1.d, this would not happen.
I was also taught that the non-offending team doesn’t get two bites of the cherry from a knock-on or throw forward. In other words, if they get a significant advantage but then squander it, too bad. They had their advantage and blew it.The referee should not go back and give them another shot at it.
When a team receives possession from a knock-on or throw forward and are under pressure immediately, the referee should be quicker to blow it up, not sit back and hope for an advantage. Usually the non-offending team under pressure is glad to hear the whistle blow.
These interpretations worked well in the pre-Watson days. Let’s get them back.
The advantage rule is killing Super Rugby