Even the Qld supporters have given up. When was the last time just over 12,000 went to a home derby at Suncorp? Yes this is the fall out of what AUS is going through, people have lost interest. Supporters can’t understand how a team that is most likely going to get cut gets 50plus put on them one week and then handles a side away from home the next week. As a group it looks like the WF are the only side playing for their futures and the others well they couldn’t give a stuff. Poor discipline comes from being unfit physically and mentality and the Reds have plenty of these poor qualities. So many of their squad have gone backwards this year and it is mainly those who are either current or fringe Wallabies.

Debates seem to rage and go back and forth on the Roar regarding rugby comps. One common thread I have seen is that many people want rugby back on FTA. Well at least can’t we give these guys a thumbs up for getting it on 7TWO, remembering that the ABC canned it a couple of years back. The standard, pathways and everything else to do with the SS is another issue but isn’t it at least a start. Regarding ratings I don’t think an AUS SR game has gone over 70K this year and the SS ratings don’t include country and regional areas of NSW.

What will happen here is the area of least resistance ie who can hurt the ARU the least. That is the Force in money terms, the PR war is a different kettle of fish albeit because apart from rugby fans who gives a toss then that is a better alternative than a massive legal case with the Rebels. My prediction is that as soon as the Force are officially gone then the Rebels will drop all legal actions and settle out of court re the financial impact on the franchise. So the code in AUS goes on another life support for 2 years and then we go through the whole process again in 2020, as the new broadcast deal won’t deliver then same revenue, when we have to decide whether we exit SR or possibly drop another franchise or merge the Rebels and the Brumbies due to the fact that the voting rights on the ARU are heavily in favor of NSW and QLD.

Sorry what is good for the goose is good for the gander and Fijian born players playing in AUS should play for the NRC team out of Fiji ie a squad so that they can pass on qualities they have picked up whilst playing maybe SR.

Sorry that’s just a cop out from the IRB if they are helping fund this ie the ARU rolled over but the NZRU played hard ball. Just like SOO in NRL where was the player raised, yes I know there have been the odd issue, then those players make up a team and they play. All that is happening here is who has the money and who doesn’t so therefore you go the weakest point. So will any Fijian players who were born in Fiji and play in NZ make themselves or be asked to make themselves available for the NRC, I think not, maybe the IRB could request this happens, I don’t think so.

Ah some-one who might be able to clear something up for me. So in AUS most of the home derbies require air travel which is a large expense. In NZ due to the land mass being less do the sides bus it or air travel, very important.

So why not have a team in the ITM Cup in NZ, I assume most people would think that is a step up from the NRC? Or does the NZRU not like the idea?

Not going to happen why do NZ take a game there, to showcase why PI players should strive to play for NZ SR franchises and AUS can take the those that they don’t want. This debate has gone on and on and on, why would NZ and indeed AUS want it to change. The “workforce” is cheaper to hire.

Correction the game in Suva rated no8 with 62K with the top having 295K AFL and 241K NRL but the other 2 examples didn’t rate.

Yes the game in Suva was a great RUGBY contest BUT the code is on the nose. Check out the fact that this game, the Waratahs game and the code’s magazine show did NOT rate in the top 20 shows on FoxTel. I keep saying that this is the commercial reality and that is the issue. If money coming in is less than money going out we go broke very simple!!

You want trends ok 2014 War 1st +209 , 2015 actual 3rd +96, 2016 10th and 2017 14th -80.
2014 Bru 4th +34, 2015 6th +108, 2016 actual 7th and 2017 Eq 11th -7.
2014 For 8th -50, 2015 15th -139, 2016 16th and 2017 15th -72.
2014 Reds 13th -119, 2015 13th -187, 2016 15th and 2017 12th -117.
2014 Rebels 16th -157, 2015 10th -35, 2016 12th and 2017 17th -243.

Really great trends. From 2014 till now all teams are further down the ladder on in the case of the Reds 13th vs 12th. All have worse for and against records. So does anyone think seriously these teams are “trending” in the right direction.

It is fascinating to me when I read many differing opinions about AUS rugby and the issues engulfing it and how little reality makes it into the debate. Ok this year is a terrible snapshot ie no AUS franchise with a positive for and against and in an open competition the Brumbies would be at equal 10th as the leading AUS team. An NRC competition that helps feed the SR comp, state domestic comps that help feed the NRC or the U20s where our results have been terrible. So when will rugby followers stop with the emotion and face reality. We have 10 tests this year prior to the Northern Tour if there is to be one. What is the realistically acceptable outcome 6 wins maybe 7. Assuming we don’t beat the AB’s at what stage of each test were we still in the game. Moving forward if the money does indeed dry up then how many players will leave here out of the current crop as we can’t compete with o’s contracts.If people think the crap has hit the fan wait until 2020 when the money does dry up due to I would imagine a much diminished broadcast contract and instead of possibly 4 franchises we might be looking at 3 or indeed exiting SR altogether (which maybe the best and only way out).

Ok so what do we know. That AUS will be in SR until 2020 as that is when the broadcast deal runs out. Whatever that format is between 2018 and then no-one really knows.

After that I agree with a couple of guys here, in that AUS moves away from SR, realistically the country that has benefited most from SR is NZ as they have embraced it and used it as a vehicle to get better and better and by the way well done by them, where as many AUS players have used it as a marketing vehicle to go o’s. Five or six franchises with player payments to be capped at $200k, if they can get more from o’s then that is where they go. Relax the “Gitteau” provision so that AUS can select from all players for the Wallabies and then pay them Test by Test.

What is the fall out. Maybe player standards could slip due to lack of o’s competition, arguable. NZ, SA and ARG may boot us out of the RC, I think a pragmatic approach would rule ie Test matches with good crowds create revenue. A broadcast deal worth less but then expenses would be reduced significantly due to player payments and travel will be cut.

No doubt many will disagree and if you do please don’t disagree for the sake of disagreeing put forward a model or concept to help.

I agree with the sentiments that say that the process that the ARU has attempted to and is continuing to go through with this issue has been terribly handled. For professional people this has been amazing. Last night I was disappointed to see and hear Chek crab walking on the topic. He was asked twice directly about the issue and yes he was not expected to give the name of the team that was going to get the chop but to then go on and infer that it was the players issue well had he forgotten that the ARU had instructed the 2 franchises to NOT resign players until this has been worked out. Clearly and indeed the Rebels are not walking away from their on field performances but the ARU is offering these players and support staff little choice either hang around and wait or sign overseas or wherever you can get a gig. Why not state the bleeding obvious and say that the ARU could have handled this in a better way.

Alongside the great analysis of the defensive issue, then combine the value of the playing group of each of the AUS franchises and then look at the for and against and I think the rankings would be this Brumbies marginally ahead of the Force followed after a gap by the Rebels then together the Waratahs and the Reds. Combine that with coaching and that should tell franchises who to cut etc. In relation to the Tahs ok lets look at who goes and stays. Robertson and Kepu stay, as there is no-one else the three hookers stay. Three of the locks go ie Skelton, McDuling and Mumm, backrow stay, Phipps if he wants to go he goes, Lucas goes, Horowitz goes, Horne is already going, Robinson and the fijian go. Ryan and Tavao gone and Simmone gone as well. So what do they need 4/5 front rowers, 3/4 locks, a reserve 7, 2 new half backs and some outside backs and maybe a new coaching team. A concern is that in the team that played Tonga in the U20’s there was only 3 from NSW so young talent looks thin on the ground.

If AUS rugby is to make any sort of a meaningful comeback from this situation then I would have thought the ARU would have plans in place for three different time lines. We are about to send a side at the end of this month to an U20 WC where will they finish, I would suspect outside the top six. This has been a continuing theme for sometime now. In the NH they have a U20 six nations so why can’t we have a U20 RC thus the competition that these guy’s would be getting would be much more sustained and intense then the current situation, after all they are meant to be the future of SR. This would be at least some form of planning into the future.

I am not sure why many people keep on talking about FTA coverage. No I repeat no network wants to pay a single dollar for rugby. The ARU struggled to get CH10 to cover the Wallabies and when they go out of business possibly this year what happens then. The only FTA coverage is the 7TWO coverage of the SS which the SS pay for not the other way around. People’s wishing and hoping re FTA coverage their isn’t the demand for it or the networks would have grabbed it.

The model you are proposing has existed for sometime it’s the Waratah Shield which lacks support by many schools, both private and public. The issue re mixed comps is the number of teams supplied by each school ie Joeys could say supply 12 open teams and 10 or 11 in under age groups, whilst for example St.Augustines may supply 4 opens and 3 under age teams. So what happens to all the other teams in schools that have strong populations of kids playing rugby. All the school based competitions struggle from week to week with this issue. The school issue re the actual day to day games take it from me is a very difficult problem so solve as schools in different associations change their views on rugby. This is not just a private school issue and by the way there are many different private schools who play rugby and supply gifted players to both the NRL and rugby it is not just the GPS system although they seem to be the ones mentioned the most in this forum. Oakhill has supplied rugby and NRL players so has St. Augutines so has Cromer High so has Freshwater High. Then this are players form GPS and CAS who do go onto play SR but also NRL. Unfortunately change in this area is difficult as it involves many people outside rugby administrators and many over the last 30 years have tried but as we can not succeeded.

It strikes me fascinating that many are blaming coaches, administrators, selectors the lot accept the players. Yes all should take some blame in this debacle but the for and against stats are the true issue here, you can’t coach defence, it is attitude and heart and these guy’s of at least a good number of them seem to have either given up on themselves, their teammates, their franchises and the code. It seems that mentally they are not there. This is endemic across all the franchises with the Brumbies being the best at parity. It follows that if your attack isn’t well coached or whatever, if you leak as many points as the AUS teams are doing you won’t be winning many games.

In my view the most important parts of this article are the following. Firstly, that under the conference system we in AUS allow and give credit to under achieving teams. Any casual fan could look at the SR table and say what the …., is this for real. Secondly and more importantly is the U20 results, struggled to beat Tonga and Fiji and smacked up by NZ on the way to potential yet another terrible U20 WC. These guys are meant to be in a couple of years going into the SR franchises. Unless the ARU gets this absolutely right then these results within SR will continue. In 2018 if the new conference is to contain the remaining four AUS franchises and the Sunwolves what changes 0,ZIP, nothing.

Thanks to the many people who have contributed excellent ideas when replying to some of my thoughts.

In response to some specific posts. I feel for the Force supporters as they shouldn’t have to be chopped for other’s errors. If indeed that is what the ARU is going to do.

With regards to content there is too much. If it was about playing good rugby, whatever that maybe ie set piece, running whatever then given that the NZ super teams are clearly the most skilled why are the ratings dismissal on their games, why are house full signs not up in their major stadiums. Unfortunately sport is now not only competing with each other but also other forms of entertainment. Horse racing has gone through what rugby is now finding that when there is so much content then the consumer just tunes out, it is easier to stay at home than go to the races or the rugby. Don’t get me wrong the standard of rugby being exhibited by the AUS teams in various games is not helping matters. Probably the starkest example of this is when my son called me after the Waratahs Kings game and said the only thing that was good was that he was given the ticket as he would have been pissed off had he paid for it and he is a rugby/sport nut.

In the AUS sports landscape there are very few contests that can now stand alone, others have to leverage of other events such as the comment about the HK 7’s. Not even knockout games ie finals (excepting GFs and AFL games which are a special beast) command full houses. For instance assuming that the Brumbies top the AUS conference when they have their knockout final at home will they get a full house as it maybe the last chance for their fans to support their team for 6 months, the answer is doubtful.

Sometime ago I had a conversation with some guy’s from Foxtel and they told me that the breakeven point for a home game is 16000 otherwise the franchise is losing money. So therefore if the crowd is say 11000 then their tickets are being co funded by other methods.

There is no easy answers to these major issues confronting the code which many of us are passionate about, it’s just a shame that this passion rarely comes to the surface until situations like this arise.

I just re read my article and realized an error. I meant to say that the State Unions give a ticket to EVERY kid who plays rugby at school or club boys and girls. No idea and don’t care how many that is the more the better. Wouldn’t that be great that an extra 20000 or many more attend a RUGBY game and not that it has to be a Super Rugby game.

Yes the last day of the Championships attracted an extra 8000 people due to Winx. Ok so around 120 horses ran that day with multiple owners. ARU get together with the ATC and give tickets to these guy’s for a game that night at Moore Park and you just might get some interest going, honestly it’s not rocket science.

The challenge for a code such as rugby is that the model of more and more mind bending non important content is fractured. Look at how Cricket has changed, AFL and League are always trying new concepts as they have realized that the new age consumer uses new platforms to view IF they are interested content. Sport ie actually attending the contest is now an event particularly in NZ and AUS where the population base is much less than in the Northern Hemisphere. For argument how many who went to the Shute Shield final last year at North Sydney Oval attended another game, I dare say not many and even though the atmosphere appeared to be great how many of those will attend another game this year prior to the final which I hope is permanently held at the venue. It takes time, money and effort to attend a game and consumers in AUS are spoiled for choices and they are savvy ie if the day doesn’t reach their expectations then they won’t be back. By the way what happens on the field is of little consequence for this consumer and in rugby’s case the laws that complicate and slow the game down do little to help. Consider when there is a held up call, 5m scrum that may require resets and then possible multiple penalties and then a maybe a penalty try, why not reward the attacking team if there was doubt and get on with the game.

Exactly, there are plenty of opportunities as other codes change their priorities but them seems at least on face value any appetite from the ARU to move into these areas. We don’t here anything from them.