The value of “depth” is multi layered. Firstly, from the younger ones it creates pressure for positions in teams. Secondly, it allows for much harder training sessions on the paddock thus coaches are not concerned about injuries. Thirdly, it allows players to play ie lower competitions when they not required say in SR which brings their skill sets to those comps. Fourthly, with the older players it brings guidance to younger players. The NZ manage this very well with moving players as they get older out of NZ into o’s sides ie Cruden this year and then welcoming them back ie Donald at the Chiefs. This is the challenge for AUS rugby but firstly lets start by keeping the juniors in rugby ie Frizell, Creighton,Watson and others all now first grade NRL players. The issue naturally is money but a better culture in the code would help and also working with educational facilities and employment opportunities would help. I know that some clubs are working in these areas but more needs to be done.

The list below contains many names of different current and former standards. The issue is really that in AUS we don’t have either the money or the smarts to keep them here.

The question about this issue is whether the ARU are doing this for rugby or financial reasons. I know that they have been saying financial viability but what I am referring to is whether they can buy out the Rebels franchise. If it is about rugby on the paddock then surely the Rebels must go irrespective of wins/losses the for and against is the main issue. The Rebels defence is shot to pieces and apart from last week it has been all year. Yes they don’t have the roster that the Waratahs or the Reds have but there has been no talk about their coach getting the chop given how poor their results have been. If it is about money then the ARU should find a way to either buy back the Rebels franchise and either let it go or merge with Brumbies.

So what an interesting statement/advice by Bryne to say that the Waratahs are trying too hard, ease off and the mojo will return. So therefore they are trying too hard and they have the necessary skill set that is hidden or they are not trying hard enough and they don’t have the necessary skill set. One would think from Hooper’s comments last week that the forwards DON’T have the skill set as the set piece is rubbish or they are not putting in. This is an incredible statement to make by Bryne, AUS franchises are 0 against NZ this year. There are bits and pieces throughout each of the franchises but there isn’t enough in the rest of each of them so naturally those who do have a skill set are targeted by well coached oppositions and the results are there for all to see.

I would rather that hopefully someone at the ARU reads these sites and then THEY can take ownership of all the good ideas that come up on these platforms. Out of interest what about the idea that the state coach for say U13s takes the same group right the way through to U18’s. That way they see the progress or lack there of physically and skill wise as the kids get older. They can also see whether other codes are sniffing around, the kids get used to the coach, players are not pigeon holed and the new coach doesn’t waste time seeing what they have to work with. Just seems to have a lot of upside.

I posted the same prior to the games yesterday. The Red’s V Auck Blues should be a permanent ANZAC Day fixture at Suncorp with no major code sport in Brisbane on ANZAC day surely a no brainer but what would supporter’s know!!!

On a side issue as I understand most are talking about AUS teams, however, MEMO to ARU and NZRU any thoughts of having Reds V Blues in Brisbane today on ANZAC day and make it a permanent fixture. By the way no competition in Brisbane today. Just a thought might be all too hard for them to comprehend and it’s not as if they need a crowd of say 30000 plus or the revenue that brings. So AFL one game in Mlb, NRL one game in Syd and one in Mlb but no rugby anywhere, unbelievable, no not really.

The interesting thing about this season is that it should be no surprise to those who have closely looked at the U20’s results at their WC’s over the last 5 years. I was speaking to a friend last night who had dug out a program from the year group of AUS school’s champs that contained Gill and many other good players, we were discussing that this was the last year group of a deep group of talented young men. BTW Frizell who was in the group is now a SOO player and may well be a Kangaroo this year. The results at SR level will continue to go south if we don’t improve player depth and skills from U13 upwards. One solution I was thinking about is that once a state team at say U13 level is chosen then the coaching group should take them all the way through to U18’s so they see each player’s improvement or if they look like drifting to another sport. If rugby is to get the “payday” from either BC’s, 2019 WC or Lion’s tour of 2025 then we MUST look at players who are know around 16 to 19 now as they will be the players who should be contesting spots in these teams.

The Waratahs are a showcase of what is all that is wrong with AUS rugby top to bottom. The issue is not the list that includes players who aren’t up to Super Rugby standard but the fact that there is no-one else to take their place. So what is that saying about the competitions that are supposed to provide the pathways and breeding grounds for Super Rugby. Either they are poor or the recruitment office of the Waratahs is poor, most likely a combination of both.

The sack the coach call is interesting in that Gibson and Grey were in Chek’s team when the Waratahs won the title, maybe Gibson isn’t a head coach but this is the easy option by the public and the franchise. Surely the whole franchise has to take ownership of this mess. The issue with this team starts with the tight five as they are not supplying the rest of the team with any go forward. The locks are not of a standard that is required to match either top teams or those who have a crack such as the Kings.

The cutting of a franchise will let the other franchises get some players but surely the underlying problem is the NRC, State district comps and the U20’s aren’t working, if they were then the AUS conference would not be in the shocking state it is with the for/against stats truly appalling. At U20s international level AUS has a terrible record over the last 5 years and this is meant to be the comp that supplies the higher teams.

I agree but so the new age player therefore plays for his coach does he? Or the money does he? Not the fans, not his team mates, not the jersey or not for his own self respect and that’s exactly why AUS super rugby is in the deep hole it is. Sorry I just don’t cop sack the coach it’s a weak message that you send the players that they are not accountable either by dropping or tearing up their contract.

Aside from the Waratahs which yes did reach a new low last night the much more concerning issue is as Lord did highlight the terrible for/against figures that the AUS teams have compared with 2 of the other 3 conferences. The Brumbies only played for 40m yes against a much better opponent than the Kings, the second half in both games put in by the AUS teams was appalling. So this can in part be put down to lack of fitness and benches that aren’t good enough either. So as much as cutting a franchise doesn’t sit well with people as long as at the same time all of the AUS 4 franchises but in particular the Waratahs have a cull at the end of 2017. What I do find interesting is the people who are calling for the sacking of Gibson I assume they are the same that wanted Deans gone as well. Interestingly yes it was Chek who brought in an abrasive SA in Pot do get a lettuce leaf Waratahs pack going forward. All that is happened is that the forward pack has gone back to what it was. Deans couldn’t believe or understand how the Wallabies would just give up, I suspect neither can Gibson, the look on his face says it all. By the way it is a similar look to most of the other AUS coaches. Like in RL it is much easier to blame and sack the coach. Unfortunately there seems little franchises can do with under performing players other than quietly release them to go o’s rather publicly embarrass them in a name and shame press conference, RUPA would mostly likely want to strike. The interesting thing is that RUPA is I suggest coming to terms with through the ARU’s decision that actually the people who are striking in Rugby and withdrawing their labor are the viewers and the fans. As the rivers of gold turn to dust then there will be nothing left for front/back office, boards or players. By the way the players will get what they deserve and then hopefully they will start respecting those who pay their wages a little more than what it appears now. Why is it that until a player like Fardy is going o’s no-one dares speak their mind? Whatever fans are left know this is crap why can’t someone speak plainly, what can’t the players take it, other than Davis commenting on getting more money, why doesn’t he hold a press conference with his CEO and say this in unacceptable and that the jersey NOT the brand is being hurt by this group. Also have the 23 players there as well and name and shame them by quoting damming stats and then drop a bombshell by saying that ALL contracts will be reviewed at the end of this season. Maybe someone from the franchise could look at “Moneyball” a movie based on a true story that puts a money value on players and then either you contract them or you don’t.

Yes the SS is on 7TWO and is actually going into all of QLD and NZ NOT JUST Nsw.

Lots of interesting articles in the main stream press this am regarding what has gone on over the last week. If you want some evidence based opinion then Georgina Robinson’s one in the SMH is worth reading basically saying that the 3 main AUS franchises have under preformed in the 2016 and now arguably the 2017 season considering the cost of their rosters. Cully’s article in the same publication is also highly critical of the performance of AUS super franchises. However, I think the most enlightening read is Ella’s article in the AUS where he indicates that many stakeholders should take ownership of the current terrible situation that rugby in AUS has found itself in. If I was to give a prize for the worst article it would be to Webster for his “puff” piece about and with quotes from John O’Neill that may or may not be correct. I think many administrators like to rewrite history to suit their slant on it.

TWAS, SHEEK ET AL been out. Just looked at some posts. Sheek re your response I have thought about a national comp to replace the SR comp. Ok WA, SA??, VIC, ACT/BRUMBIES, NSW COUNTRY, WARATAHS, QLD COUNTRY & REDS. That’s 8, save travel ie o’s expenses, maybe save costs from NRC as they would be in this comp and many more saleable local derbies. Downside, possible and likely high profile player lose and where does that leave international rugby for us other then the June window. Pay will need convincing big time. TWAS the SS as you know has a weekly TV game which this year is going into all of QLD and NZ and WITHOUT country and regional figures rates high than SR. All I am saying is there is something to build on. Anzac day weekend Syd Uni and Norths are playing in Bowral and 13/5 Easts and Gordon are playing in Orange. In country and regional areas this will be a big winner and both games are to be covered on 7TWO. This maybe the future for the SS re maybe 6/8 games per season.

Re the cost of guys playing to the ARU’s credit they have brought in a ‘try before you buy” idea that you can pay a small amount to play for a subbies/stute shield side for a couple of games and then either continue or not. Nevertheless the rego figure is a major on going issue for “grass roots” clubs.

I think where rugby has to reinvent itself OFF the field is to start harnessing the volunteers to think more outside the square so to speak rather than game day duties to start helping LOCALLY commercializing things. I know as where I am at now working with a governing body that will be for the first time receive no assistance from any rugby body higher up so they are left to their own devices. For them to survive they will have to start understanding the value of their resources and product and at a “grass roots” level there is plenty of value there.

TWAS and others you have seen my view’s on the current board and CEO of the ARU, however, I do believe they are trying their best to shore up the finances for rugby until 2021 and then 2025 which by the way is I think their main responsibility. Realistically the main issue for mine centres around the wish list of sectional interests within the sport. Each want a slice of a pie which at the moment is either staying the same or decreasing and they see their “patch” possibly shrinking. You only have to look at comments from areas such as schools rugby, junior rugby, district rugby, club rugby (Papworth et al) and Super Rugby (Davis) to see what the ARU is dealing with. So where to start. Well a good place would be your workforce. I went to an “elite” private school and so did my sons, one of which played at a relatively high level but the landscape is changing. Why if you are paying $35K per year in school fees would you push your son towards a “maybe” career, therefore over 12 years I saw first hand the level of skill and other coaching drop purely because parents were wanting their sons to enjoy the game without worrying too much if they played after they finished school. The ARU to their credit is trying to either get promising players into sports highs or engineer better programs within the “elite” school area ie GPS playing CAS schools that are interested in “trials” this season. This should allow as time goes on a better standard of competition within 2 competitions that need some involvement from the ARU to improve the final product. That only addresses non public and boy’s schools and the ARU clearly has to look at these other areas. Notwithstanding work needs to be done at club level with regards to juniors as at the moment many boys only play at school where they are exposed to coaches, many of whom are well qualified are teachers, or ex students mainly in the lower grades. We can see the product of the lack of this by the time they reach either U20’s, look at the results and then onto Super whereby the skill sets of our competitors are much more honed. I know we “poached” the skill’s coach from the ABs but I would have thought by the time you reached national selection you may have had a skill set that only required some small extras added to it.

This is only part of a massive and complex jigsaw that the ARU is charged with fixing. As passionate supporters of rugby we all maybe need to ask ourselves what to we want in AUS from our rugby and what is realistically achievable, firstly in the short term say by 2021 when the new broadcast deal is to be signed and secondly in the long term by say 2025 when the Lion’s tour again. For instance over this period at Super level will we/can we win another title, at Bleds level can we/will win a Cup, at Rugby Champs what position in the 4 is realistic, in the 2019 RWC will we make the final and then 2025 Lion’s tour? So the players who will possibly win that tour for us in 2025 and also are the players for the franchises are a group of 17 to 22 yrs now, what do we think?

I am not advocating we leave the SR competition but what does the competition in it’s current or even 2018 format do for AUS rugby? So let’s say and it won’t happen we go it alone. We will play a state by state local derby competition, how would this impact on the broadcast rights, less content assuming the season is shorter would mean less dollars there but it maybe made up for through increased memberships and sponsorship’s as it might be (??) a more even comp. The o’s travel expenses would be less. I assume there would be no Rugby Championship in it’s current format but commercial reality would kick in so SA and NZ would want to have some tests. The main issues here are revenue streams, player retention and what impact does it have on the Wallabies. Having said that these are issues anyway whether we are playing SR with 4 or 5 teams or not at all. Within AUS the SR comp as evident by ratings and attendances has a small devoted following compared with the population of the country, if we are going to continue in the comp then rugby must be nimble and adapt. There is no doubt “niche” mainstream sports (yes I know that is a statement in contradiction) have become event orientated. A great example happened at Randwick last saturday with 26000 going to the races of which it is estimated 8000 were there to see Winx, now saturday at Randwick with good weather predicted and yes an inferior meeting but still with 2 G1s on it will I guess get about 8000 to 10000. Consumers have many options to spend a set budget on entertainment and just like other sports rugby is fighting for those dollars.

TWAS the ironical thing here is that I believe you don’t want a team cut as you believe it is not in the best interests of AUS rugby which is an eminently laudable position to hold, I happen to differ and yet I am not happy with how the ARU has gone about a decision I agree with and you it would appear on face value agree with the process that is about a decision you disagree with. Maybe what we should be considering that given this is a done deal that the ARU gets this decision right ie is it going to be for commercial reasons or rugby reasons. Now I know that they should be one and the same but normally when there is a pot of money out there decisions are not always made for the “right” reasons.

I have never said I don’t want to cut a team. All I am talking about is the process and the transparency of that decision so that the team that is cut has the evidence in front of them. The chairman did hint about this last night by asking where were the Force fans over the number of years. I agree it’s pure fantasy but the issue regarding 2003 is what we did with the revenue we received just like the revenue we receive now from broadcast deals. Most of things you quote here regarding are givens BUT rugby has always seen itself in a strange way and now we trying to compete in a global market for rugby where our competitors don’t have the unique issues we have and all I am saying is that for the code to remain viable in AUS in whatever form that takes we have to be very careful with the resources at our disposal.

TWAS I think we agree on many issues here. For what is worth I don’t agree with 5 teams but that is an emotive issue and I am not sure how either or us will be proven right or wrong on that. I do agree that a lot of this should be given to O’Neil and others who were blinded for all the right reasons into believing after we hosted the WC Aus Rugby could be the no2 sport in this country in the winter months. Where I do have issue with the ARU is the process of this which is making a really terrible situation somewhat worse by letting speculation run rife and even the chairman said last night that the ARU needed to communicate better which is one of the factors which has led to the inevitable eroding of confidence by people who have much more knowledge than I do on these matters and that is not a good look when you are trying to raise revenue.

Ok so are you saying the ARU has handled this situation well or to the best of their ability given the circumstances they have found themselves in irrespective of what has happened in the public domain just prior to London until now. If that is the case then I would assume you are confident in this CEO and board to steer the game through a very difficult period and that would mean Mr. Pulver should remain on after Feb 2018 when his contract runs out until 2020 when the new broadcast deal is to be finalized.

Exactly, I would have assumed that their position legally regarding the Force is strong after all surely they determine who gets franchises it is the process of what has happened that is the issue in that they have exposed themselves to as you put it insolvency by poorly handling this. It becomes a marketing issue now about are this board and CEO the best people to govern the finances of the game going forward as I do think there some heroic assumptions being mad by them.

No. The point is they should have anticipated that this would have happened. If they would not have let it fester from prior to London then the Rebels threat of running down the value of their franchise would not have occurred and then all they would have had to deal with was the inevitable public fall out from the Force and had their legal team look at the contractual arrangements regarding the franchise for the Force and then this could have been cleared up quickly. There are 2 issues here legally and they are quiet different there is the one from the Force as to whether they can be removed from the comp and then there is the one from the Rebels about commercial issues, one was avoidable, one was inevitable and if the ARU didn’t see that coming the they truly are incompetent.

I have often stated that the code and therefore the body running it has a very difficult job attempting to compete in a market place with 2 sports giants that is a given. As I have also stated it is clear that they for whatever reason have not handled this well and more importantly are continuing to not handle it well by saying one thing and then quickly due to the threat of legal action retreating from their position, it’s not a look of strength, it looks like they are not running the game. You know what maybe they are not, maybe it is the franchises ie the Rebels, maybe it is SANZAAR even though they said it was their decision to cut a franchise, maybe it is Foxtel they just look weak.

And what the ARU realized is that the funding attached to the model was quickly being used by the 5 franchises to keep afloat. Then there was no money left for other projects and public opinion was starting to grow against the way the ARU was running the sport. The issue I have is how they have moved from that point to now. The sport has been run down in the public eyes, from a leadership point of view it has looked lazy and inept and from results on the field it has looked poor which has fed into dwindling crowds, falling TV ratings and the inevitable loss of memberships and sponsors. Whilst the ARU can not be held to account for the results on the field they are the body who is in the public eye and therefore as they are charged with running the game they must be held accountable for their actions. Whether there are more suitable people out there who would be interested or have the necessary skills to move the code forward who knows but surely it has got to the point and by the way the CEO has admitted that he got this wrong they should resign when this process is completed whatever the outcome is.

But isn’t that the issue. What we know from the ARU that sometime ago they felt that the 18 team comp was flawed and they were hemorrhaging money $28M according to them. We know that according to this forum they were close to the Force and the Rebels. We know from the ARU that SA rugby is not in a great state either and we know from the ARU that they had to deal with numerous broadcast partners. We know this because over the last couple of days the ARU has deemed to tell us this. OK with this in mind the obvious is why were two scenarios not on the table to go to the broadcasters ie Force is gone or Rebels is gone no discussion needed, self interest will take over from the remaining state unions to ratify the decision.

So regarding the statements by the ARU. So as Sir Humphrey Appleby would say “minister they are very brave assumptions”.
Assumption1. That the players would go to the 4 remaining franchises to “improve” as Pulver said the on field performances. Apart from ARU contracted I assume NH clubs would have a close look their roster and we would get left with what they don’t want.
Assumption2. The money saved by cutting a franchise will go to “grassroots” and by the way what actually is “grassroots”. Is it NRC, is it club rugby,is it subbies, is it juniors or all over these? So what if the ratings and crowds don’t improve and therefore the 4 franchises who are struggling anyway will want a good share of these savings to survive.
Assumption3. That the NRC will continue in it’s current format. Really does they ARU think that the side based in either WA or VIC will continue if the SR franchise is cut. Has the reformatted NRC been considered?