Do we actually deserve to host a Football World Cup?
Columnist
By Davidde Corran, 9 Dec 2009 Davidde Corran is a Roar Expert
- Tagged:
- AFL, Andrew Demetriou, Ben Buckley, football, Football World Cup
155 Have your say
Australia's Tim Cahill wins the ball against Abe Yuki of Japan, during their final match of the Asia Qualifiers round for the 2010 World Cup, in Melbourne, Wednesday, June 17, 2009. Australia beat Japan 2-1, with both countries having already qualified for next year's World Cup in South Africa. AAP Image/Joe Castro
That many of football and Aussie Rules’ staunchest supporters have never seen eye-to-eye goes without saying. But the schism that has now formed between two former team-mates, Ben Buckley and Andrew Demetriou, is a sad indictment of the polarised sporting landscape in Australia.
Buckley was best man at Demetriou’s wedding, but naturally that shouldn’t affect their work in a professional capacity. Instead, it’s the vitriol that has come from both sides of the recent “AFL versus the World” debate that is depressing.
Scouring through the 500 plus comments on a piece covering the issue here by Adrian Musolino on The Roar yesterday, I was shocked by the misconceptions that many had based their opinions on.
The truth is that few, if anyone, had all the facts in front of them to draw accurate conclusions on what was and had transpired.
Many of the opinions expressed right across the internet and mainstream media on the issue stemmed from the great sadness of our proud sporting landscape. Even though some of us do, we just generally don’t seem to be able to get along.
As well as being a football journalist, I’m a Melbournian, a member of an AFL team, and a member of an A-League team.
I’m also proud of every one of those facts.
However, I am constantly left feeling disappointed by the bickering between both sets of fans. I am sick of listening to Aussie Rules fans revelling in the same stereotypes that led Johnny Warren to title his autobiography “Sheilas, Wogs and Poofters.”
At the same time, I am fed up with members of Australia’s football community hypocritically pointing the finger and laughing at AFL’s anachronistic traditions and ‘macho’ culture.
I often feel like I have to hide my love of ‘the other code’ depending on whether I am around Aussie Rules or football fans. In reality, each group is just alienating the other and doing so for no gain other then a few trite giggles.
Psychologists have a general rule that any argument between two people that goes longer then ten minutes is no longer talking about the original issue.
By that point, previous disagreements and issues tend to get dredged up and a resolution on the original point of contention is rarely found.
Football and Aussie Rules has certainly been played for more then ten minutes in this country, and the same old arguments have been coming up for nearly as long.
I’m not appropriating blame, or saying who is right or wrong, but this week Andrew Demetriou and the Australian media have played off this very status quo.
It’s disappointing but unsurprising.
Both have their own stakeholders and are the AFL is within its right to protect its huge chunk of the sporting landscape, while the media are justified in trying to boost its sales.
That doesn’t remove the dark pit from the bottom of my stomach, though.
So all of this has left me wondering whether Australia really does deserve a World Cup. If we in Australia can’t even get our backyard in order, how can we claim to be the best candidate to host the world’s biggest sporting event?
In truth, we do deserve to be involved in bidding for the hosting rights, but I’m starting to wonder whether my hometown of Melbourne does.
It saddens me to say it, but if Melbourne is not ready to wholly embrace the tournament, then maybe we don’t deserve a key role.
The endless bickering between Australia’s different, though not rival, codes leaves no winners.
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albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:12am | Report comment
“If we in Australia can’t even get our backyard in order, how can we claim to be the best candidate to host the world’s biggest sporting event?”
for me, ‘our backyard’ doesn’t include the feelings of the AFL or other sports or “codes” .
what matters is if the football (‘soccer’) community believes in it… which they do.
the only bickering i see is the hyperbole from the AFL … they reckon hosting the WC finals is going to destroy the Aussie rules season. Which it won’t.
whether we deserve to host it will ultimately be determined by fifa’s executive committee. Whether fans of another sport are happy about football’s bid will have little impact on their decision.
If anything, the over the top, ‘wounded animal’ response from the other sports may actually work in our favour. It shows what a backward, small-minded group of people dominate sport in this country, and FIFA just might like awarding the finals to a place where it will work toward breaking down such xenophobia.
Kurt said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:32am | Report comment
“what matters is if the football (’soccer’) community believes in it” Albe, if the soccer community was prepared to stump up a few billion to build their own stadiums I’d be 100% with you. But there is the tiny issue that this WC depends upon the goodwill of other codes because it’s us xenophobes with the contracts to use the stadiums you need for the WC bid. So it appears that perhaps we are in your backyard afterall.
albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:02am | Report comment
its the governments that are prepared to stump up the cash and for good reason. Today’s Fin Review reports a net benefit of $300 million plus for Australia according to PwC analysis. Which is why the gov’ts may legislate for stadium access (where possible), unless Melbourne want to be left out altogether.
The football world cup will deliver for this nation on economic and cultural terms unlike any other event we have staged in the past.
Kurt said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:13am | Report comment
But the problem is the government ISN”T prepared to stump up the cash – not even the money to upgrade the new Melbourne stadium so that it can host games. As for the net benefits, I see we’re down to $345 million from the $5bn originally touted, and on the back of $2.9bn investment represents a pretty unspectacular ROI with a relatively high risk profile.
albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:36am | Report comment
not publicly as they want this sorted out without the additional cost. But if it came down to it, Melbourne would probably just lose out if they aren’t prepared to. Which will reflect very badly on the AFL supremos, given the hyperbole that has underpinned their objections.
As for the return, it’ll surpass what we’d earn on other events no doubt about that. Its funny how the costs are so often glossed over for every other global event we want to host. But not football.
And i suspect your $5bn figure is the total economic impact quoted, not the net figure after costs. Which the PwC report estimates at the 350m.
albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:53am | Report comment
and re-reading the article, its states a 20c on the dollar return which seems pretty sound to me (that is a NET return of 20c for every dollar spent)
Kurt said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:58am | Report comment
The FFA spokesman says 20c in the dollar. By my calculations $345m benefits on the back of $2.9bn expenditure represents an ROI of 12% – and that’s assuming we don’t have any construction cost blow outs which we all know will happen.
And as for glossing over the costs of global events, as a Sydneysider you probably don’t hear the constant debate over the cost of hosting the F1 grand prix in Melbourne – a profound waste of public money if there ever was one.
albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 6:00am | Report comment
re your 12pc ROI no offense Kurt but i’ll take the PwC team’s estimates over yours
Mushi said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
No offence Albe but an FFA spokesperson is not the PWC team.
Notice how the rest of the article uses direct reference to the report but the 20c uses a spokespersons interpretation. Please read more closely next time.
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:18pm | Report comment
Mushi
you’re spot on – I just double checked – I too had been wondering how on Earth they came up with a 20% ROI.
Mushi said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Also pip I don’t know if you’ve ever been involved in putting one of those things together – but it is like an assumption trifle where layer upon layer of assumption builds the report.
Is it useful as a tool for guidance – yes. But to hold out the figures like some stone tablet of truth is using the findings incorrectly. About the only thing I’d be near certain about is that the number won’t be 345
albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:21pm | Report comment
Mushi: where do u think the FFA spokesperson got the figure from? The PwC report perhaps? I doubt they are just pulling the figure from thin air.
Agree with your point about the reports in general
Though all sports do use them and pay millions to commission them, so they aren’t totally without substance.
Mushi said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:47pm | Report comment
Albe I don’t know where he got it from nor do you, but the reporter didn’t seem to get it from the document and they also had access to it.
I didn’t say he pulled it out of thin air but it is more than possible they have interpreted a figure or a comment in the report in a manner in which it is not intended. I think that is pretty clear from the other figures used.
For example you read the article and made an incorrect attribution for the comment so clearly just having access to the materials does not mean someone is making the correct determination.
As for the substance without seeing the report I can’t comment I’ve seen many good ones and the occasional that the term “without substance” would be flattering. There is also the possibility that the journalist at the AFR or the FFA rep has not presented the amounts in the manner they were intended.
albe said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:58pm | Report comment
wow you’re drawing a whole lot of conclusions there… apologies for assuming the FFA spokesperson was drawing on the PwC report they (or someone connected to them) probably leaked to said AFR reporter.
and do u not think its possible the reporter included the quote to balance out the article, so they had something to attribute to an actual person connected to the bid rather than just a piece of paper. Editors do like that.
tifosi said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:22am | Report comment
No we probably dont and its not because of the Xenophobic remarks by the minority out there.
Or by what the AFL or NRL think, They are small potatoes.
This is the World Cup, if we cant give it the respect it deserves then we have no right hosting it.
If we are going to play on cricket ovals then it would look silly. Seriously cricket ovals!!
We are also not yet developed enough as a Football Nation. We need to prove ourselves on the World Stage more. That includes hosting an Asian Cup, it includes qualifying for another world cup or two.
If we prove to the world that we can host a successful Asian cup, then the powers that be will likely reward us more later.
Michael C said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:13am | Report comment
Tifosi -
if cricket ovals is your stopper – - then, fine……it seems the World Cup isn’t an appropriate ‘code development’ exhibition tournament to conduct!!!! (unless you’re an America with countless rectangular American Football stadiums).
Nothing to do with Demetriou, AFL, or NRL…..
but, yes, tend to agree – - – it’s quite one thing to have the odd game at a Berlin Olympic Stadium type venue (even the final),…..but, in Germany, the rest of the stadia were soccer venues and Munich’s olympic stadium was bypassed. In Australia, it certainly looks like the majority would be ‘ovals’.
Alex said | December 9th 2009 @ 9:45am | Report comment
God, don’t you sound like a pretentious so and so. I live in the UK and believe me if spoke such rubbish over here I’d have to surrender any interest in the sport.
PJ said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:26am | Report comment
Davidde, why aren’t you a member of the storm as well? don’t forget the NRL also has legitimate concerns which mirror those of the afl. Both codes should expect to be fully informed about what is going to happen if we get a world cup, both turn over in excess of $100m per year, and this can only be a lot more in 2018 or 2022. They are not some small bit operation you can just turn off, they are massive business enterprises in their own right.
I personally don’t think we will get the thing anyway but that is not the point. It is basic manners and sense that they are kept appraised about what is going on. Perhaps some of those billions that fifa make should be used to compensate?
Michael C said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:27am | Report comment
and don’t forget that back in late October David Gallop was using language along the lines of ‘unworkable’ whilst Demetriou was still playing a diplomatic straight bat.
From Demetriou’s perspective – ask the question “What changed?” since then.
Simple – the FFA has attempted to claim Etihad Stadium.
That means war. Plain and simple. That means 6-8 weeks of the AFL with no Melbourne stadium. That’s not going to happen without Govt legislation and if that happens, then Govt’s will fall.
Tifosi said | December 9th 2009 @ 4:28am | Report comment
If i was the nrl i would pray to god this bid works. Its the only way any clubs will get nice shiny new stafda and training facilities
Chris said | December 9th 2009 @ 10:04am | Report comment
New Stadia in last decade: Suncorp, Skilled, ANZ, Bubbledome (ongoing), Central Coast Stadium.
Redeveloped in last decade: Koogarah, Newcastle (ongoing), Brookvale (ongoing), Penrith, SFS, Canberra.
The NRL has all the “shiny new stadia” they need. Without the FFA or it’s world cup.
Perhaps a more immediate concern for the FFA would be to build a few 5,000 capacity stadiums around the place for its A-League clubs. The Roar playing out of Suncorp is looking worse every week.
Mushi said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
Shinny new stadia also generally have higher breakeven crowd figures
Freud of Football said | December 9th 2009 @ 5:22am | Report comment
Davidde, I admire your “bravery” here. You are bound to get a lot of comments continuing on from what Adrian wrote and you’ll probably be attacked by both sides. I made a comment after about 320 others and made the same point as you did here;
“The truth is that few, if anyone, had all the facts in front of them to draw accurate conclusions on what was and had transpired.”
This debate will continue amongst fans who look at little sections of the argument, of the stadiums, then the income for the states, of transport etc etc but it takes a lot more than anyone is going to put into either a comment or an article on The Roar to make a WC tick, the situation the AFL and NRL find themselves in is a lot more complex than anyone seems to want to admit to and that’s why these things are decided almost (this time, more than) a decade ahead of time.
There are so many numbers to crunch, aspects that will affect the long term economy of the entire country and of course the leagues and no-one is capable of that here, if it will take FIFA years, the FFA, NRL and AFL months to come up with anything with full-time staff dedicated to solving exactly these kinds of problems – well I fail to see how anyone here can even make a dent.
Let the people who know what they’re doing sort it out, sometimes we don’t need the opinion of every Tom, Dick and Harry on this.
Jaredsbro said | December 12th 2009 @ 2:19pm | Report comment
Freud that’s why we must all take due diligence in remembering that the Roar is merely entertainment for much of those who post here. People can’t be bothered reasoning properly, in the main. It’s just so damn fun to attack and riposte and to die on your sword with quiet stoicism or to be stabbed to death extravagantly.
But personally I come here to argue about things that I have a personal affiliation/association with. And the FIFA WC is something like that. I’d love to have the tourny here but I want to try and work out FIFA’s rationale, their plan of attack if you were. So far the lack of info is a huge handicap but I’d love to hear from more passionate Soccer fans than I why Australia is so important to FIFA and why they shouldn’t just hold the event in England, it may give the poms that bit more of a chance not to fail again
steve said | December 9th 2009 @ 6:02am | Report comment
I’m a South African, living in South Africa and my experience of the world cup is nothing but a complete and utter disgrace. South Africa is currently experiencing some sort of perverse colonisation by FIFA disguised behind glitz, glamour and the promise of economic growth. Trust me the spin doctors have been hard at work to justify spending 10 Billion Rand ( 1,3 Aus Dollars) of public money on stadiums, but in a developing nation with high unemployment, high HIV infection rates and levels of crime it just seems absurd beyond words.
Now South Africa has vastly different problems to Australia, but heed this warning it is not conducive for a happy, functioning nation to side line certain members of its population so as to benefit others. There are however a few examples that might pertain to Australia and its bid:
On Saturday the average citizens wasn’t allowed in to the city centre without passes(reminds me of about 16 years ago when a pass was required for certain members of our society)
Beggars were removed off the streets of Cape Town to portray a certain false image of South Africa to the Worlds Media (I suppose David Beckham’s latest hair cut wouldn’t be that appealing if there were children begging in the background).
No Rugby international are allowed to played, so us despairing rugby supporters have to live off a diet of re-runs and silently wait for the currie cup to start so we can have our country back.
No constructions within 50 kms of a stadium(economic growth?)
No trading within 1 km of the stadium….South Africa is a country where a large portion of our people who are unemployed make ends meet by informal trading, this was meant to benefit the people but instead its only benefiting FIFA.
South Africa ,a country of great people like Nelson Mandela, Steve Biko, Desmond Tutu, Chris Banard, Fw De klerk, has sold its soul and the television rights to FIFA. Now certainly Australia is a great country that doesn’t have the same socio-economic problems as South Africa but it can’t allow itself to be dominated by FIFA. If the NRL and AFL want to fight for their own place under the sun, I say fair on them and good job. My only wish was that someone had fought for the disaffected and disenfranchised here in South Africa.
Compensation = $1 billion + said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:38am | Report comment
Very interesting points you raise there Steve – why haven’t we heard about any of these other FIFA restrictions we’ll be signing ourselves away to?
The media need to step up and really investigate this bid and how many billions of dollars are eventually going to be wasted on the taxpayers dime.
big Kev said | December 9th 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
steve, interesting post. Why did SARU agree to it? I know a few rugby stadiums are being used, Loftus, Ellis Park, Free State but not in Durban or CT where they built new stadiums. Is the Currie Cup going to be on hold? What about Durban in CT where the stadiums wont be in use? If the Currie Cup can be postponed, surely the NRL and AFL can agree to it too? After all the CC is certainly bigger than the NRL, maybe not the AFL.
steve said | December 9th 2009 @ 6:06pm | Report comment
FIFA restricts any international competition, that involves people travelling, so even if stadiums aren’t being used like Kings Park and Newlands they we still be using up hotel rooms and public transport, which fifa currently has a monopoly over. Under this tyrnaical ruling by South Africas new government , FIFA, there will be no Durban July (largest horse racing event in Africa), no comrades (largest ultra marathon in the world), no July internationals. However it is most likely that the durban july and comrades will be moved to august.
The currie cup only starts in august, I think the world cup will be over by then otherwise it certainly would be cancelled. SARU didn’t have a choice in the matter, they had to comply otherwise they risked losing state funding and backing for any future world cup bid.
Another inconvenience is at the present you cannot get a flight out of the country and all internal flights which use to cost anywhere from 400 to 1300 rand now cost 8000 to 9000 rand (about 1200 Aus dollars)
The fact is the staging of the World cup is going to cost everyone but only a few will appreciate and benefit from it. FIFA is not interested if the host country makes money all they are worriedabout is their own bottom line, like any good company would.
Billo said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:39pm | Report comment
After reading Steve’s comments, my response is to ask whether FIFA deserves to come to Australia, not the other way round.
An organization that comes to a country and bulldozes everything in its path, damaging the sports that most Australians are interested in, isn’t what I would like to see.
In any case I don’t think we will have enough stadiums to satisfy FIFA, so the question is likely to be purely academic.
Redb said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:08am | Report comment
Fair call and good article.
The inclusion of Etihad stadium was always going to the the sticking point and this has really got up the AFL’s nose. It makes it completely unworkable to conduct an AFL season in Melbourne without both the MCG and Etihad.
All effort from the FFA for an event 9 or 13 years away SHOULD have been directed at making the new rectangular stadium a FIFA complaint stadium and Melbourne’s 2nd WC venue.
Redb
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:14am | Report comment
That the new rectangular stadium in Melbourne can not be used for the WC is one of the biggest planning cock ups in Australian history – and I lay the blame squarely on the FFA.
When the bid falls over, as it obviously will, we can look back at that cock up as one of the primary reasons.
Mr said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
It’ll just mean less games in Melbourne and more games in the cities surrounding Sydney (ie. Parramatta/Blacktown/Penrith) with likely stadia that will be scaled back post WC.
I completely agree that the expansion cost at Swan St being so high due to the roof is a cock-up. Who commissioned that – the Victorian govt – not FFA. You’re sounding a bit shrill these days Pippinu.
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:47am | Report comment
Mr
It was the FFA that lobbied to have the stadium built to 31,500 rather than the 20,000 – they have been involved at every step of the way.
Also, the pre-planning would have had 2022 as a priority – surely someone from the FFA was checking each stage of the approval process?
If not – then Buckley has dropped the ball.
Timmypig said | December 9th 2009 @ 9:06am | Report comment
Just off the top of my head – not sure if this is right or not – isn’t each city in a host nation limited to a max of 2 venues? It would be a creative work of geography to describe Parramatta / Blacktown / Penrith as being cities in their own right, and not part of ‘Sydney’.
Then again, I’ve been wrong before. Happened once in 1982 I think ….
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:12am | Report comment
Davidde
terrific article, and I sympathise wiht your double life.
As tifosi says – to have a bid with 5 or 6 cricket ovals as the centre piece is a farce – don’t blame the NRL and AFL – blame the FFA for being incompetent.
Steve of SA
timely post – I agree with your last line 100% – nothing would make me prouder as an Australian to see the AFL stand up to the corrupt autocrats of FIFA and say: pi$$ off!!
albatross said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:34am | Report comment
>> I sympathise wiht your double life
You’d know all about that. Posing as a football fan, when all you really care about is cross country wrestling.
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:41am | Report comment
albatross
these are precisely the sorts of comments Davidde is talking about – and why I’d be rapt if the AFL told FIFA to pi$$ off!
Ken said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:03pm | Report comment
I’m mostly with you on this issue but I think you’re undercutting your argument with the ’5 or 6 cricket ovals’ bit. It’s patently not true, Lang Park (Suncorp) and SFS are both great rectangular stadiums, Homebush (ANZ) is a multi-purpose stadium – capable of anything but particulary great for nothing – not specifically a cricket oval though. Then there are a bunch of smaller (20 – 30k, but upgradable if necessary) rectangular stadiums up the east coast – Canberra, Parra, Gosford, Newcastle, Gold Coast etc.
I don’t know much about the southern states, I suppose your comment probably holds more weight there but it’s not the complete story
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
Ken – these are five of the 12 stadiums proposed:
Etihad (a late comer admittedly, which is causing all the fuss)
MCG
Carrara
Adelaide Oval
Subi
that’s five ovals.
The point is – Australia was never really in a position to mount a serious bid.
Tigerface said | December 9th 2009 @ 7:57am | Report comment
Australia aren’t going to win a damn thing. The naivety of the discussion tells you much about how culturally unprepared Australia is to host a WC.
Powerful African lobby will never back Oz for a WC. Poor treatment of indigenous people sticks in their craw. Speak to any African about this. They see Oz as the ‘New South Africa” They will talk the talk but African are never voting for Aus.
Oz not a big enough market to justify the expenditure
Disrespect that the FFA has shown the Asian authorities for the last 20 years
WC communications team will be documenting the local infighting between codes – Oz lacks desire
Football culture. Lacking. US was big enough market to give it a go
A-League has less Asian players than the English Championship – Not a good look for a Asian football nation.
National broadcasters barely understand the game.
Our bid video is a terrible – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zd8lTHdj0k – ‘multicultural’ Australia only features brief glimpes of two people (aside from the clichéd outback indigenous footage) who aren’t white. Uncool.
The bid is already dead. If I was at FIFA HQ I’d just strike us off the list. As ever we look like parochial hillbillies on the world stage.
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:52am | Report comment
Our bid would fall over because we can’t afford to pay for Asian players?
The Victory has two Thai internationals in their team right now – one is not too bad (nothing special though), the other is pretty ordinary to be honest.
Chris said | December 9th 2009 @ 11:10am | Report comment
I can’t believe there are people who actually care how we are perceived by corrupt African dictatorships.
Phutbol said | December 9th 2009 @ 2:24pm | Report comment
Every Australian playing in the A-league is an Asian player….
Ken said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:06pm | Report comment
I would have thought most of them were Australian?
jimbo said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:08pm | Report comment
Well said Phutbol.
And everyone who watches a football World Cup is part of a global community, of which AFL is not a part.
Pippinu said | December 9th 2009 @ 3:12pm | Report comment
Whether you play Australian Football or korfball, you are still part of humanity.
Let us all celebrate that fact.
At the end of the day, I remain a humanist.
Jaredsbro said | December 12th 2009 @ 2:37pm | Report comment
But humans are evil I tell ya
The main gist of this article is not right Pip. I understand that it is on a better footing than the other article, but really both articles are just pendulum swing/defensive type affairs.
Rather than assuming we all hate AFL Pip and assuming that we’re all trying to see it fail and thus that is our motivation to support the bid (as tho we were following the Pope with blind faith by way of an example
)you’ve just gotta chill a bit and trust that there’s enough people out there (true sports enthusiasts) who aren’t jumping on the bandwagon but are weighing the argument: pros and cons. We may not understand Commerical Law, but intelligence/dilligence come in a variety of colours.
Anyway unless we’re living in a world order where it is just that the big countries dominate not just the geo-politics of the globe but also the culture too, the idea that FIFA deserves to be appeased/or that Australia inherently deserves/doesn’t deserve the WC is wrongheaded. Only the people of Australia can decide what they want. And I don’t particularly like Democracy but as I see it it’s about justice.
Thus maybe we should have a referendum (as much work as that requires) to see the lay of the land…or even get a professional survey project rolling. Otherwise as I said to Freud above it’s all just banter, which is fun but sport is more than just about entertainment.
albatross said | December 9th 2009 @ 8:15am | Report comment
>>You’re sounding a bit shrill these days Pippinu
It’s his Mola heritage