By Mike Tuckerman
December 15th 2009 @ 3:43am
Related coverage
Time to celebrate an A-League blockbuster
Carlos Hernandez of Melbourne Victory in action during the round one A-League match between Sydney FC and the Melbourne Victory in Sydney on Saturday, Aug. 16, 2008. AAP Image/Jason McCawley
With all the hullabaloo surrounding Australia’s bid to host the World Cup, it’s been easy to overlook the burgeoning A-League title race. But with Melbourne Victory hosting Sydney FC next weekend, it’s time to put league action back in the spotlight.
The clash of the titans is one of the A-League’s genuine blockbusters, and Victory officials will hope to see fans pour through the Etihad Stadium turnstiles in season-high numbers.
Melbourne will be burning for revenge after Sydney dished out a 3-0 win at the same venue back in Round 10, and Victory are currently in form.
Since an uncharacteristic 4-0 thrashing at the hands of Central Coast Mariners in Round 14, Ernie Merrick’s men have taken ten points from their subsequent four games and scored nine goals in the process.
Sydney have been less conspicuous, recently snapping a recent three-game losing streak with back-to-back wins over North Queensland and Wellington Phoenix, although they’ve won the same number of games as Melbourne this season.
They haven’t always done it in quite the same cavalier style as the free-flowing Victory, but Vitezslav Lavicka’s team have shown that when the going gets tough, they’re capable of grinding out results.
Undoubtedly one of their best displays came in the thumping of Melbourne back in October, but their two-goal hero from that game Mark Bridge is still under an injury cloud.
The Sky Blues will also appeal the red card handed out to Simon Colosimo in the win over Wellington last weekend, but should the veteran defender miss out, former Victory man Sebastian Ryall could line up against his old club.
There are plenty of other intriguing match-ups, not the least the head-to-head duel between evergreen combatants Kevin Muscat and Steve Corica.
The latter has been in superb form this season, so much so that Fox commentator Robbie Slater recently claimed the harbour city side rely too heavily on the 36-year-old.
It’s not hard to see why, with Corica in sparkling form of late, and Sydney fans will hope to see the popular midfielder reprise his sterling efforts in the heart of enemy territory.
Now that Football Federation Australia has officially submitted documents to host the 2018 or 2022 World Cup, there’s no better time for a crowd of more than 30,000 fans to turn out for this high-profile encounter.
There’ll be fewer fans inside Energy Australia Stadium the following afternoon for Newcastle’s meeting with North Queensland Fury, but bizarrely Branko Culina’s side could conceivably move into third – despite having languished near the bottom of the table for most of the season so far.
It’s testament to just how tight the finals race is, with sixth placed Perth Glory now looking nervously over their shoulders – not least because Chris Coyne, Jacob Burns and Mile Sterjovski could all head out on loan in January.
Meanwhile Central Coast Mariners will be looking to put struggling Brisbane Roar to the sword at Bluetongue Stadium, as the Gosford side look to put behind them their recent defeat to Melbourne.
But this weekend is all about another must-see clash between Melbourne and their old foes Sydney, with the bubbling animosity between Australia’s two largest cities set to overflow against the backdrop of one of the A-League’s biggest grudge matches.
My money is on Sydney to do the double over Melbourne in their own backyard, although that probably has more to do with my place of birth than any non-partisan analysis!
Whatever the outcome, it should be a cracker – as the A-League gets set to shake to the sounds of its own version of ‘El Clásico.’
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Vince said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:36am | Report comment
I believe that Fox Sports ran a website poll a little while ago to try and name this match up, I think ‘The Big Blue’ won , makes sense given the colours they teams wear as well as the australian slang element to it
Killer_Tomatoes said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:21am | Report comment
Horrible name, why does it need a name, especially one such an unsubtle attempt by marketers to leave their grubby fingerprints all over it. I can just see in years to come, the ‘New Blue Coca-Cola brings to you the Fox Sports Big Blue’, shudder at the thought.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Really? I rather like the name.
Killer_Tomatoes said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:15pm | Report comment
The Big Blue? Why not just call it the City Derby or something, or let it grow a name naturally. Leeds and United have been playing eachother for over a century with a legitimate name they could call it, but nobody feels the need to give it a name, they just get on with their hate for eachother. Everything marketers get their hands on they bastardise, the A-League is ‘plastic’ enough without having Fox Sports decide what our big games are called for us.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:19pm | Report comment
I just like it, that’s life. ‘Blue’ is great Aussie slang.
MV Dave said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:49am | Report comment
Muscats 500th professional game adds just that little bit extra also. There were over 30,000 last time and hopefully something similar again…pity the rectangular seat formation was not kept for this one. With Colsimo out SFC have a defensive problem but MV also have injury worries with Surat, Brebner, Berger and Celeski all out for the medium to long term. Hopefully Victory get an early goal to make SFC come out of their defensive set up. A win here would provide MV with the perfect platform to go on and win the league.
agga78 said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:13am | Report comment
This is the A leagues biggest game, The Big Blue is a decent name for the clash and should be marketed to both markets over the next few seasons. Sydney have had a really steady squad for the whole season only making 1 or 2 changes and the manager has been rarely tested with injuries or suspensions to his team, which has allowed them to be up at the top of the tree. Melbourne on the other hand has lost players every week, some for the season, some for a week, some forever, the defensive midfield role in the team is a poisoned chalice everyone who has played there has got a serious injury. But since Danny Allsop left Victory, Melbourne have changed the way they play, they have gone form a 5-3-2 formation with wingbacks to a 3-5-3 or 4-3-3 formation, they are attacking faster and are far more mobile in the attacking third than they have at anytime in their short history. Credit must go to Merrick who has his team playing the best football they have ever played, some of Melbourne’s football is breathtaking at times. This is the game of the year, two teams with different philosophy’s on how to play the game.
simonjzw said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:28am | Report comment
The A-League is a second rate competition.
Pym Verbeek acknowledges this and the performance of the A-League representative team masquerading as the Socceroos earlier this year confirms it.
There is no such thing as an A-League Blockbuster no matter what name is used or how the spin masters want to promote a match.
mahony said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:37am | Report comment
Are you done? Now you can go back to the pen with the other children. Be quiet, the adults are discussing the world game.
Wannabemigs said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:49am | Report comment
I don’t think Simon was being provocative like some of the AFL and NRL clowns. I think he has a legitimate point Mahony and there is no need for such snide and smug remarks.
I’ll certainly be watching but I wouldn’t call it a blockbuster. It’s no Man U and Chelsea match.
MV Dave said | December 15th 2009 @ 8:30am | Report comment
How many MV vs SFC games have you been to Simon? If its none then perhaps you should get down to the TD Saturday night and be in a position to make an informed decision. Whilst quality on the pitch is important in many derby games sides cancel each other out. A blockbuster involves atmosphere at the ground, positions on the ladder etc both of which the ‘Big Blue’ has, with more than a little footballing quality thrown in.
Wannabemigs
The last match between Chelski v ManU at SB was a poor game and very scrappy with both sides largely cancelling each other out. The way the MV vs SFC is developing it could become one of the great football (of any code) rivalries in Oz with big, noisy crowds and passionate fierce games on the field. The 2 current playmakers Carlos ‘The Jackal’ Hernandez and Steve Corica are both top quality and worth paying admission alone.
Wannabemigs said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:51pm | Report comment
Well there weren’t many empty seats which certainly helped. If the TD is full on game day I will be impressed then.
I can’t agree with you I am sorry. I blockbuster match would have the whole town talking. I live in Sydney and I can tell you it is very quiet. I understand that things are probably very different in Melbourne with their better sporting culture.
It could well become one of the great football rivalries but I don’t see it happening any time soon. You can’t compare it to the State of Origin for instance. My friends and I find rugby league rather borish but come that time of year we all watch. I’m not really sure why. Perhaps it is the passion and atmosphere that leaps out from the TV screen. I’ll be behind SFC but we aren’t going to be in the local pub massed with local supporters.
mahony said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:06pm | Report comment
I do. Many of my peers do. Many Sydney fans do. So what is you point?
Wannabemigs said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:54pm | Report comment
Um, this is a little awkward. My point is really very simple. It isn’t.
Killer_Tomatoes said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
lol, new enough to football wanabemigs? Sydney v Melbourne has been a ‘blockbuster’ for just as long as United v Chelsea, 5 years ago (pre-Abromovich) those two teams meant nothing to eachother. You need a history lesson mate.
Punter said | December 15th 2009 @ 8:13am | Report comment
You are 100% correct, it is a 2nd rate competition, but when you average 10K & you get 30K it is a blockbuster.
I don’t why you have to critiise something you don’t like unless you feel it’s a threat.
Redb said | December 15th 2009 @ 3:23pm | Report comment
I agree in relative terms for the A League it is blockbuster given the 10K ave and likely 30K+ crowd. The article does stipulate A league blockbuster. It is 2 of the top 3 teams as well.
I went to a Melb-Syd game 2 season ago i think and it was alright, the new stadium will be better putting the fans a bit closer together.
Redb
Killer_Tomatoes said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:22am | Report comment
why continually bite at comments like this people? all you’re doing is vindicating this clowns presence
Realfootball said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:26am | Report comment
Yep, and you are a second rate speller. Try Pim, not Pym, and go somewhere else to shoot yourself illiterately in the foot next time.
Lu said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:38am | Report comment
Scott Munn CEO of new A-league team Melbourne Heart said it best in today paper (the Age), about not only he’s team, but the A-league in general..
“We are not going to pretend we are something we are not. We are not the best league in the world. You can get that for $59.99 a month on Foxtel and watch all the Premiership games you want.
(What the A-league is), is an adventure and a sense of belonging and ownership. ”We are looking to provide our fans with a journey. They can watch our young players come through, develop, play for the first team and if they are good enough they can go to Europe to become bigger stars. That’s part of the football journey, the traditional development, and we want our fans to enjoy that as well as watching the team.”
Whether it’s second rate or not.. whats most important is that it’s OURS..
mahony said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:18pm | Report comment
Spot on. I wonder which other AF league’s compare favourably to the one here in Australia?
Lets ‘call a spade a spade’ shall we? If people want to describe the A-League a “second rate” that is fine. Just don’t accept that football fans will simply cop it. Many of us have another view. A nuanced view. A historical view. A sophisticated view.
If the A-League is “second rate” in a global context – then by this definition the AFL is a parochial little sport with no relevance. Alternatively, the A-League is a new, middle-ranking league in a large global sporting context which is still developing and the AFL is a well established league and a unique exemplar of Australian sporting culture.
You choose. To do otherwise is to be disingenuous and provocative.
Lazza said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:52pm | Report comment
I’ve said it before but it’s only 2nd rate in comparison to the elite Football leagues in Europe. They are 90 pro Football leagues around the world so how do they all survive and prosper if we’re only interested in watching the top leagues? As a Football fan I’m just lucky that I’m so spoilt for choice and having our own pro league was the only thing missing.
In comparison to the other domestic sporting leagues in this country, the HAL has the deepest talent pool with 1.2 million registered players and the whole world to recruit from. There’s a hell of a lot of talent out there if you can find it.
The other sports don’t really have anything to compare their leagues to so you wouldn’t know if they were 2nd or 3rd rate.
Punter said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:53pm | Report comment
This is so true, in the latest 442 magazine, they listed the top 100 players & 97 of those players came from the top 5 leagues in the world, English, Spanish, Italians, Germans & French. So all other leagues around the world, all 200+ of them are 2nd rate.
This is hard for traditional football codes (AFL 1 league, RL 2 leagues) to understand as they don’t have much in the way of int’l flavour.
Robbo said | December 16th 2009 @ 7:13am | Report comment
I love how you soccer types managed to turn this into a anti-AFL/Rugby League thread when there aren’t even any AFL/RL people here.
I guess I will fire the first shot: The last time this “blockbuster” was played 30,000 people turned up. That is 6,000 less than the AFL’s average crowd.
AndyRoo said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:10am | Report comment
Robbo….sorry mate Redb and Michael C were here well before you. Don’t try and claim first shot, your attempt was way after the full time siren, your just lucky it was paid.
Punter said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:12am | Report comment
Robbo, what have you done with Robbos?
VooDoo said | December 16th 2009 @ 4:47am | Report comment
Umm, that doesn’t seem right. By any analogy the AFL would be the pinnacle competition for Australian football. In no sense would anyone sensibly argue that the A-league sits on a comparable level of world soccer.
albe said | December 16th 2009 @ 5:00am | Report comment
clown… the A-league sits on a comparative level with most world leagues (of which there are many) just not the top ones. Your comment there about AFL being a ‘pinnacle’ shows u are clearly missing the point.
Michael C said | December 15th 2009 @ 7:49am | Report comment
‘A-League’ Blockbuster…..bit of an oxymoron isn’t it??
seriously though – I still don’t understand why the FFA has not scheduled such a match on the weekend leading up to the Melb Cup……MVFC tend to play away….that’s just plain silly, why wouldn’t you have MVFC host either SFC or AU at Etihad on the Sunday before the Cup, Melb is carnival city and many, many people take the Monday off for a 4 day weekend.
Il Duce said | December 15th 2009 @ 8:01am | Report comment
Well even if you are going to call it a 2nd rate comp still doesnt mean there isnt block busters. Spl is rated considered a 2nd rate comp in Europe and they still have a blockbuster that is one of the biggest in the world (Celtic V Rangers). I dont think either is a 2nd rate comp I was just making a point.
Melbourne people always tell everyone else in the league how they are the best fans in the league this is the game where they need to prove it, its first v second and its a derby game there should be no less than 30,000 at this game. I think it will be a scoring draw like 2-2 and as a neutral fan in this game (sort of I’m a reds fan) I will hoping it lives up to the hype and proves to people that this league and this sport can be exciting and entertaining if they just took the blinkers off.
Eamonn Flanagan said | December 15th 2009 @ 8:05am | Report comment
Well said Mahoney! …and actually simonzjw the team picked for that game against Kuwait was simply the wrong team…most fans reckon there were a number of other players who could have beaten Kuwait from the A-League….try the eleven other A-League players other than Archie who had beaten Kuwait in Sydney just two years earlier!
Should be a great game on Saturday, an Aussie blockbuster no doubt, but unlike against the attack minded Gold Coast reckon Melbourne will struggle to break Sydney down. Although let’s face it last time Sydney only really attacked for ten minutes and got three goals.
First goal to Melbourne probably vital, but can their defence hold Sydney out this time? Conceding heaps at home is a Victory forte it seems. Think Roar, Mariners and Sydney.
Gibbo said | December 15th 2009 @ 8:42am | Report comment
Unfortunately Victory seem to suck big time at home. I’d be more confident on the road.
K B said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:31am | Report comment
Yes the Melb V will be baying for blood from the humiliating encounter from the last time they met SFC losing 0-3 at the Dome… Let’s not mince words here it was humiliating for the MV, with a capital HHHHH, then to also go down to CCM, 0-4 most convincingly at the Dome was Exasperating with a capital EEEEEE…
However, somehow the Scottish One “Merrick” with his band of merry Portuguese interpreters may have finally gotten through to “the Jackal” (Zorro as he likes to think of himself, no idea why), this time around at the Dome, this could be his time, recording some half decent performances on the road… And after having an outstanding game at the Dome against the GCU FC’s youth team…
But can he do it for a second time at home at the Dome against the mighty Sdnneeee Sky Bluesss…? Well maybe now he can, now that the Sky Blue’s uncompromising enforcer, Simon Colosimo, is out due to an unfair red card dismissal from the previous week, against the Nix… Maybe this will be the telling factor for the MV to turn the tables against the Sydneee Sky Blues for a very rear win against them…
All in all, this “is” the “Season’s Block Buster” no doubt about that, this game will determine who really deserves to be the Premiers no doubt at all about that—first past the post will be the real champions no doubt about that (well for me)…
So I think Lavickta’s men realising the importance of this encounter, the final run home to be on top of the table, might just do it, with a enthralling I-0 away from home win… Good luck to the Sky Blues, you can do this lads…
~~~~~~~
KB
MV Dave said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
Yes KB this and the last game of the season at SFC will be the deciders…hopefully will make the trip to Sydenee for that one as well…VICTOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
Daniel King said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:20am | Report comment
Last game of the season is SFC v MV at the SFS, if they are still neck and neck that truly will be an absolute B-B-B-Belter!
Can’t wait.
Go SFC.
Forgetmenot said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:35am | Report comment
This is the match where people are organising a protest against the AFL isnt it?
Aka said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:02am | Report comment
you tell us… is it?
The Truth said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:41am | Report comment
It reeks of Europosing in here. Props to true supporters that go out and watch their local side.
Zack said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:58am | Report comment
All those who support the World Cup bid should go down to this match to show that there is enough support for football.
Ben of Phnom Penh said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
Good suggestion, Zack.
Footbal Person said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:12am | Report comment
well, The truth ,Who do you support and where do you live . Im primarily a Brisbane supporter, have been since the second A-league season but I do get out to a few Rovers games(Rochedale). Although, when we played them pre-season, I was happy to see a reserve Brisbane team victorious.
And secondly, how could it be “Europosing” if the teams are Australian, that my freind reeks of silliness.
The Truth said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:08pm | Report comment
The posing comes from those who knock the A-League, smart guy. You certainly don’t fit that profile, do you?
Chook said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:21pm | Report comment
have you been going to the Brisbane Roar matches?
if not why not?
Chook said | December 15th 2009 @ 11:55am | Report comment
The A- League needs a block buster, and whilst it aint a first rate competition, or even a second rate it hardly matters the SFC and VIC know it will be a cracker.
and the A- League needs it
Last weeks crowd
total 30,372
average . 6074.4
worst crowd numbers in the A- Leagues history i think
marinator 4LYF said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:11pm | Report comment
if that really is the lowest in history that really is saying something about the current crowd problems considering we now have an extra game each week AND we dont have the 1-2K crowds of the knights anymore!!! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE ABOUT THIS, SLASH TICKET PRICES IN HALF!!! better to have a full stadium for the same profit margin!!!!!!!!
Michael C said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:52am | Report comment
worst in history –
rnd 3 V2 – 23,588
rnd 14 V1 – 29,105
V3 never dropped below 40K for a round.
The 30,849 is just worse than V5 rnd 8 at 30,992 to claim the 3rd worst result yet.
Mxjosh said | December 15th 2009 @ 12:51pm | Report comment
Can’t wait, Its going to be a cracker. And yeah it is a little worrying that this game may match the total crowd numbers of last week
Chook said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:28pm | Report comment
lol might be more,
I still want to know why the Brisbane Roar have such poor crowds.
So many people, play or follow football in Brisbane but why only 5801 ?
I think the Brisbane Roar need to take a good hard look at them selves and think abotu next years advertisng / marketing the people are there.
Nelson said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:14pm | Report comment
For a league that averages just shy of 13k per season, Melbourne v Sydney games that average 27643 (or 32553 in Melbourne and 21914 in Sydney) – along with the passionate rivalry between the teams, fans, and cities – are justifiably called blockbusters. For what it’s worth the NRL, average attendance in 2009 was 16,051 – not that far ahead of a 5 year old competition.
Hopefully MV will come out and play this time, they didn’t look like they wanted to be there last match. Our defence is much more settled, even with the injuries, and things are firing up front. Carlos to score his first goal against them, I think…
Michael C said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:36pm | Report comment
gee…..hasn’t averaged 13k ish for 2 years now…..okay, was 12ish last year, but
struggling along at sub 9,500 this season.
Presently, the NRL (I’m no great fan) did at least have a record year for them (with 16 teams and all), whilst the HAL trend is downward. The 13K vs 16K comparison has lost some currency.
The HAL really needs MVFC to play at home every week, and the obvious desire is that Hearts won’t damage MVFC as much as provide a Melb/Vic team playing home every week.
At any rate, for V5, MVFC at home, the avg round draws 55,673. With MVFC away, the average is 38,145. Per match, that’s 11,134 vs 7629. A pretty unhealthy reliance!!
Art Sapphire said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:14pm | Report comment
You can make the same argument about your team Michael having an unhealthy reliance.
Now you don’t want your team to be accused of dragging the AFL down now, would you??
Do I need to remind everybody:
14342 – Nth Melb v Port Adelaide
15436 – Nth Melb v Fremantle
16594 – Nth Melbourne v Melbourne
Those figures are not exactly music to Uncle Andy’s ears.
Must be hard supporting a team that gets less of its own supporters to games than Melbourne Victory
Michael C said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:35pm | Report comment
I’d rather not – - I thought the discussion here was around NRL vs HAL,
the AFL really ought not be brought into this…..really,
however, in your mentioning of those North Melb figures……it’s a fine illustration for the need for a 3rd Melb AFL venue for ’boutique’ (a lovely marketing 101 word that…..’boutique’) sizing of around 25-30K (so as to allow clubs to NOT lose money when an unpopular match up occurs).
And so, we AFL folk – - who you seem to have positioned yourself well away from – but, we AFL folk do whine and moan about the AFL……circa 1998 that railroaded clubs probably hoping they would fade away or relocate, and along the way – got rid of all bar 2 stadia.
No point complaining about it now though……but, project forward a North Melb in a rotten year hosting GC17 and GWS18 and Port and Freo in a horrow 6 weeks with 4 money losing home matches!!!!!
Don’t worry – - we know it’s coming!!!!
Art Sapphire said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:51pm | Report comment
Michael, since you take such ghoulish delight at the A-League’s drop in attendances on this website. I could not help but throw a bit of a type of mud called perspective back at you.
Good to see you predicting the Roos home draw for the 2013 season
Maybe you should write a post complaining about the AFL’s rigging of the draw which comes at the expense of the smaller melbourne teams. Tell Andy how it does not happen in the A-League
Michael C said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:58pm | Report comment
gawd, it was bad enough a couple of years back that Ade Utd hosted MVFC twice at home in the first 8 rounds before MVFC got to host them at all at Docklands….this was when this match up was the GF ‘replay’ so to speak in V3.
It’s always important to distinguish b/w a ‘FIXture’ and a ‘Draw’,
btw – I hated the AFL deciding they didn’t need to run a nice each team plays the other once in the first 15 rounds. It’s one thing to admit that 16 teams into 22 doesn’t go – - but, to then carve up the fixture…….but, as above, even in the HAL with 3 ’rounds’ of 7 in an 8 team comp over 21 weeks….it was still carved up.
So, I’ve given up worrying too much about it – - and, the reality is, you just gotta win on the day, and you never know that you might catch the opposition at a really bad time or not…..that’s why coaches only ever ‘pencil in’ the wins they’d hope to achieve!!!!
btw – waddya reckon about the Storm and the Good Friday ‘blockbuster’ in Melb. Interesting, partially respecting the Melbourne ’sanctity’ not so much of the day, but, the Good Friday RCH appeal that evening. So, it’s a mid/late arvo start, not televised in Melb but is into NSW and QLD.
AndyRoo said | December 15th 2009 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
I don’t understand why it won’t be televised in Melbourne as that seems a large part of the point.
Rugby League has been played on good friday for a long time, it was Anzac day that was the big taboo until the late 90’s
Art Sapphire said | December 15th 2009 @ 3:42pm | Report comment
Michael – In the old boring days you could not even go to the pictures or have a drink on Good Friday. Thankfully, we are out of the dark ages. I normally go to the pictures.
People should be given a choice. Good on the NRL. AFL will be doing the same in a few years time.
Robbo said | December 16th 2009 @ 7:18am | Report comment
Art: North Melb average 27,000. MV average 20,000. You really don’t want to start a “crowd figure” argument with an AFL fan – because it is an argument that even the EPL, La Liga and Serie A can’t win.
MV Dave said | December 16th 2009 @ 7:20am | Report comment
You missed the Bundesliga…currently 42,000 ave
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:02am | Report comment
My argument Robbo was that Victory’s home support is greater than Nth Melbourne’s. I am not counting the away support. This is why Nth Melb begs the AFL to play the bigger clubs more often so they can make more money. Its a fact that even Michael C acknowledges, you just have a hard time accepting it.
Robbo said | December 16th 2009 @ 9:48am | Report comment
AS. Sorry, I get what you mean now (in that a fair percentage of the people at NM games are fans of the other team). I guess the Victory will be able to take advantage of that phenomenon next year with the “Heart” coming on board (besides I do recall seeing a lot of Sydney FC/Adelaide flags at Victory games against these sides).
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 9:58am | Report comment
Robbo – at A-League matches its pretty easy to count the away support as most of them choose to be together an make some noise in the away supporters section.
At the last SFC and Adelaide games there might have been about 300 away supporters who made the trip to Melbourne. The home crowd for those to 2 game was 30k and 21k respectivley. You get way fewer away supporters at the other MV home games.
MV Dave said | December 16th 2009 @ 8:16am | Report comment
BTW If the EPL chose to play their games at the biggest venues to maximise crowds and forgo ‘home’ ground advantage as the AFL do then they would comfortably beat the AFLs average eg Chelski v Arsenal or Spurs or West Ham at Wembley 80,000 each time instead of the capacity of their own stadiums…so get over it…not worth trying to take on the EPL in a popularity contest.
Nelson said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:17pm | Report comment
All that is irrelevant to whether or not this game is a blockbuster.
It’s a 5 year-old competition, replacing one where all the teams were scrapped and generic teams created from scratch. Do the same to the AFL teams and the code will struggle.
Michael C said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:45pm | Report comment
again – why bring AFL into it. Although, I guess one thing that Superleague and the HAL illustrate – - you can’t just work the logic of ‘build it and they will come’,…..it doesn’t work that way…..not over night at least.
Once upon a time, the big 5 or 6 AFL clubs were producing mumblings of a ‘break away’ super league…….well……in reality, that’s what the VFL was from the VFA back in 1897. Not too keen to repeat it though.
Nelson said | December 15th 2009 @ 4:30pm | Report comment
that’s why the FFA are trying to build a _sustainable_ competition that over time will create it’s own history (not that i agree with what has happened to the traditional clubs). It will take time for the league to spread its roots into the community.
i brought up the NRL and then the AFL not to turn it into an HAL v NRL or an HAL v AFL discussion, but to provide a point of comparison – ie, HAL isn’t far below the NRL in attendance, and that if you took away the traditional clubs from the AFL and replaced them with generic franchises, attendances would most likely be pretty poor for some time.
Art Sapphire said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:26pm | Report comment
I just can’t see Sydney doing the double this time around. Melbourne has turned the corner since the SFC and CCM debacles with introduction of Langerak, the defence not leaking goals and the team starting to play some really nice stuff in the final third. Both teams are in form so it should be a great game.
Unfortunately, the ground has reverted to its normal oval configuration and this should help Sydney as the 12th man won’t be as formidable and the atmosphere not as intense as it should be.
Even worse, this fixture will be played at the Dome next year. It would have been better to have played it at the new Bubbledome in front of a full house.
Melbourne Heart will have the honour of hosting Sydney’s first A-League game at the Bubbledome. This is the best news Heart will ever get to kickstart their debut season.
Lu said | December 15th 2009 @ 1:58pm | Report comment
It is such a disappointment that Victory v Sydney games will never be played at the Bubbledome..
What an atmosphere it would be to have 30,000 supporters all crammed in and making a massive ruckus.
I’d rather have the game being sold out and tickets be at a premium than to have it at Docklands where there wll be empty seats and stadium management not even contemplating reconfiguring the seats for such a massive game.
A Hypothetical: Imagine Liverpool playing out of Anfield, but moving there bigger games (Everton, United, Arsenal, Chelsea etc, to the Millieum stadium in Cardiff?
MV Dave said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:09pm | Report comment
Yes Lu EPL attendances would be much larger if the clubs chose just to play at the biggest stadia eg Chelski v Arsenal at Wembley 85,000 instead of 41,000 capacity at SB. It is with great credit the EPL continue to play games at their real homes and not sell games to the highest bidders. It is the real strength of having your own turf and making it a hostile environment for the visitors.
Personally would love MV v SFC games at Bubbledome.
Robbo said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:04am | Report comment
I’m sure in 5 years time when the A-League average crowd is sitting at 6,000 and the Sydney v. Melbourne game is only drawing 25,000 it will be held at the Bubbledome.
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:15am | Report comment
Robbo – Victory members want this fixture played at the Bubbledome in the future. Its all about supporting the team, making it diificult for the opponent and getting the result. I don’t have a crystal ball to make predictions – but I can see that you purchased yours from an AFL approved retailer
Lu said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:23am | Report comment
In 5 years.. where will North Melbourne and footscray supporters go when the AFL kills off their team to
accomendate the new Northern expansion teams?
Hopefully to the A-league..
Chook said | December 15th 2009 @ 2:40pm | Report comment
Hey i love the A- league and go while I can I didnt want to start a crowd debate thread again, just the facts.
Congrats to SFC and MV for having a good crowd and giving the game some good coverage, I think the game would be worth watching live and as a Brisbane fan would like to be there.
I think the new Rovers and Heart team will also bring an add element to the game.
Im going to stick by the Roar with the other 5,000 other supporters.
cab711 said | December 15th 2009 @ 6:07pm | Report comment
Damn I wish I could go. To see all those disappointed Victory fan faces live would be priceless.
PJ said | December 15th 2009 @ 9:42pm | Report comment
the comparison to NRL crowds is misleading. There are 8 games per week in the NRL in the middle of winter, hal has 5 games in the best weather and crowds are falling. The NRL has just had record crowds and ratings and is the best attended club rugby competition in the world. Beats superleague, guiness premeirship and top 14. It is also in the top 20 attended comps in the world, 16th i think, its on wiki anyway. The NRL is going great guns, the hal des not even compare.
Daniel King said | December 16th 2009 @ 5:41am | Report comment
Yeah but the big difference is that Thugby League has had 100+ years to get these average figures, HAL has had five!
Plus to gloat about how well the NRL compares to the Guiness Prem and Superleague is misleading because they ARE all in competition with the EPL, what is the NRL in competition with? Mainly The Swans and the Brisbane Lions.
Chris said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:00am | Report comment
Soccer didn’t just appear from nowhere in 2005. It’s like me saying the NRL is only 11 years old. In 2007 the average A-League crowd was 14,500 and the average NRL crowd was 16,500. At the time Soccer people were saying the HAL was going to overtake the NRL and that Rugby League was dead. Now, in 2009, the average A-League crowd is 9,500 and the average NRL crowd is 17,000.
Springs said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:16am | Report comment
NRL is in competition with the AFL and Super 14. A-League is in competition with nothing. And the AFL has bigger crowds than the EPL.
Michael C said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:28am | Report comment
There’s also the element that the grassroots of soccer is mainly offset to the ‘elite’ season.
the HAL does have some continuity from the NSL – Glory, AdeUtd and Roar. And also a base initially in the main soccer state – NSW.
the HAL this year especially as stuff all competition from basket(case)ball, the international summer of cricket and a pretty low key build up so far to next months tennis open.
note though – on any given week in Sydney during the NRL season – you may have 50,000-80,000 NRL attendees, and every 2nd week another 30K at the Swans, and every 2nd week another 20K at the ‘Tahs.
During the HAL season, once a fortnight, there’s perhaps 11K at SFC and not much else.
now – the AFL has a specific focus on giving the fans what they want (maximising attendances) – - shock horror, what madness!!!!
Surely the HAL needs to try this approach.
MV Dave said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:35am | Report comment
13million spectators went to the EPL last season thats more than the AFL, NRL and Super 14 combined!
Michael C said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:45am | Report comment
20 teams playing 38 matches each….hmm….380 games. For 13 million you say??
AFL, 185 games (inc finals) for 7 million.
AFL wins.
Let alone if we go into the per capita side of it, or that EPL is far and away more national than the AFL is etc etc.
Anyway – - just what was your point??
MV Dave said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:54am | Report comment
You dont seriously want to get into an argument about which is the more popular the EPL or the AFL?
Before responding just compare the overseas TV payments for the 2 competitions.
BTW My point was in response to Springs above yours.
Springs said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:19pm | Report comment
My point was in response to ESL being in competition with EPL when the NRL is in competition with AFL which has bigger average crowds, proving that the NRL is the most popular club rugby comp in the world. It was not about whether the AFL is more popular than the EPL, I don’t care about that.
Robbo said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:32pm | Report comment
and so it should be. After all England is three times larger than Australia. In per capita terms both the AFL and NRL shred the EPL apart. Of course – the EPL has absolutely zilch to do with the A-League so its irrelevant anyway.
jimbo said | December 15th 2009 @ 10:46pm | Report comment
Get your facts right and do yourself a favour and stop reading the Daily Telegraph.
Last year was not a record year for the NRL it was about 10% down on the record year of 2005.
The Kangaroos attendances were 40% down on the record year.
The only thing that was up for the NRL this year was the TV audience for 2 of the 3 SoO games.
Socceroos average attendances have risen to 45K which is 40% more than the AFL avge and 225% more than the average NRL attendance.
The Six Nations Rugby Competition has average attendances of 70k a bit more than the NRL – 16k. Saracens in the Guinness Premiership played their opening round game this season at a packed Wembley Stadium.
Football is the biggest participation sport in the country by a long way and gets the largest international TV audience of any Australian sport.
The 2 highest rating programs on pay TV are football games.
The Germany 06 FIFA football WC produced the highest rating FTA programs particularly considering the late night or early morning time slot.
Attendances at A-league games is the only thing that is slowing, everything else about football in this country is still growing.
Chris said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:09am | Report comment
The A-League isn’t slowing… it is shrinking (and it isn’t shrinking slowly either!). By the way, the Six Nations isn’t a “club rugby competition” which was an important qualification the poster made when he said the NRL was the best attended.
AndyRoo said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:32am | Report comment
But in the all important market of “non football fans reading and trolling football articles or comments” we are booming.
Comfortably beating the other codes…..unless it’s a union vs league stoush admittedly.
Springs said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:22am | Report comment
Last year was a record year in terms of TOTAL attendance. Socceroos have what? 2-3 games a year if that. Origin has three games a year, average this year was 60K, 15K more than the Socceroos games.
NRL has about 60 of the top 100 highest rating pay TV programs of the year and is competing directly with the AFL games and the Super 14 Games. Soccer on Pay Tv is competing with American sport and international (not Australia) cricket.
Michael C said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:40am | Report comment
Jimbo -
ah, don’t you love it when both people are right. 2009 was a record crowd aggregate for the NRL (H&A) season. The Avg as you correctly pointed out for 192 games was down 400 on the 180 games in 2005. The Aggregate was only about 2K more than 1995 with 220 games played…………all this variability makes comparisons internally a bit dodgey, let alone going external.
btw – if in discussion about the HAL and blockbusters – you feel you need to bring the Socceroos into discussion – then, don’t compare then to the AFL H&A season…..btw – AFL H&A season avg around 36,000. 40% of which is 14,400. That’d equate to 50,000. You might’ve done a typo when you intended to put “30%”??
however, why don’t you compare the handful of Socceroos matches to the handful of AFL finals which, for 9 matches averaged over 68,000.
Soccer is the biggest participation sport in the country….by some aggregated measures. Because, there’s been large recent growth in womens soccer. There’s large ‘un-organised’ participation, and larger over 35s participation. When you get into specific segments – soccer doesn’t win much outside of NSW.
btw – last year they tried on the ‘plateauing’ regarding HAL crowds. Last year that was wrong, they were falling dramatically. This year, they are falling dramatically again. That’s a consistant trend – to lose over 30% of your average attendance dropping from 14K to 9500 over a 2 year period……that’s freefall.
Gweeds said | December 16th 2009 @ 9:28am | Report comment
How come an article that just talks about a football match becomes yet another code war fight?
Does it happen only in football threads
Do football supporters go to the AFL and Rugby threads and troll writing negative things about their codes?
Mmmmm……
I am organising BBQ before the match at my place and then we are all taking the train to Etihad. The problem is that there are two vegetarians in our group and I am worried that the animal fat from the beef sausages may contaminate their lentil burghers or whatever they bring when they cook them on the BBQ hotplate.
Also I just have Cascade Beer (which is one of my favourite commercial beers, I like Coopers as well) but now it is fashionable to get these exotic ones like Mexican, or Malaysian and so forth.
Mmmmm….
AndyRoo said | December 16th 2009 @ 9:36am | Report comment
Gweeds, if you are providing the alcohol free of charge then you are perfectly within your rights to just buy the cheapest carton of domestic product you can find (even if you rarely drink such stuff). By providing Cascade you have gone above and beyond the call of duty.
Bottled though….no cans that’s my limit. If I got served free cans I wouldn’t complain but I wouldn’t forget it either.
Beers snobs should bring their own 6 pack or hold their tounge
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:30am | Report comment
Gweed – just tell the vegos to use the stove in the kitchen. Problem solved.
I will be doing the usual thing and meeting up with my mates at The Carron before the game to knock back a few James Squire Golden or Amber Ales. When it comes to beer, parochialism goes out the window
Chris said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:14am | Report comment
Vegetarian soccer fans?!
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
We like football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars.
MV Dave said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:32am | Report comment
Did someone rattle the cage??
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:43am | Report comment
Chis -
1) There are many more vegetarian AFL fans then there are vegetarian A-League fans.
2) There are many more gay AFL fans then there are gay A-League fans.
3) There are many more Hybrid driving AFL fans than there are Hybrid driving A-League fans.
Are you uncomfortable with these facts, Chris?
Or do you wish to stereotype all AFL fans as troglodytes?
Chris said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:44pm | Report comment
Art S. As I barely watch the AFL and have absolutely no affection for it, these “facts” don’t bother me at all (nor should they both an AFL fan either). That said, given the AFL is an order of magnitude bigger than the A-League I defy you to find any demographic that does not contain more AFL supporters than A-League supporters. Like most NRL fans I will immediately put aside my usual dislike of AFL if it means bagging soccer.
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:57pm | Report comment
Sorry Chris, my mistake. Sometimes its hard to distinguish which code the “soccer” bashing troll follows. I actually follow AFL and most AFL fans would agree with my facts I presented above.
Let me twist your astute observation around a bit.
“That said, given the NRL is an order of magnitude bigger than the A-League I defy you to find any demographic that does not contain more NRL supporters than A-League supporters.”
Ok here goes -
1) There less vegetarian NRL fans then there are vegetarian A-League fans.
2) There less gay NRL fans then there are gay A-League fans.
3) There less Hybrid driving NRL fans than there are Hybrid driving A-League fans.
There – are you happy now. What was that you said about about troglodytes??
That’s right they only like – league, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars
Michael C said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:48am | Report comment
“Do football supporters go to the AFL and Rugby threads and troll writing negative things about their codes?”
short answer – - yes.
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:09pm | Report comment
Hang on a sec, Michael – I noticed an AFL article that was posted today on AFL rules for next season.
http://www.theroar.com.au/2009/12/16/afl-plans-holding-the-ball-changes-but-nothing-else/
Why are you spending your time on this thread when you should be giving us your take on AFL rules.
Also, why don’t you write a piece on Majak Daw being drafted to your club.
Now there’s a good news story regardless of which code or codes people follow.
Michael C said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:44pm | Report comment
Art -
Good question especially re Majak Daw,
I have noted an absence of any articles on him, even the ‘red’ column articles on the left,
If I get time (no certainty presently), there’s a couple of rookie related articles I’d love to do.
However – when I saw a place that I could add value to this thread via providing factual stats to clarify a misleading statement, I thought it my (Roarvic) civic duty to provide that clarification. After all – on theRoar – one thing we all seem good at is shooting down overly grand statements!!!!
(is it Xmas yet????)
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 11:31am | Report comment
re Majak Daw article – MC, if you dont hurry up I will.
You’ll be happy to know the BBC thinks your club is one of the most famous in the AFL.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8415988.stm
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 11:46am | Report comment
I’ve done an article just 10 mins ago – that is more North Melbourne that Majak Daw specifically (I went the ‘club’ twist rather than the individual) – - so, feel free to do one on Daw,
or even Yoshuira up in Brissie!!!
TammyS said | December 16th 2009 @ 10:21am | Report comment
I am looking forward to this game even though I dont follow HAL or soccer that religiously. GO SYDNEY!!!
Midfielder said | December 16th 2009 @ 12:57pm | Report comment
It is hard for me to put the teams I hate the most… my top four in order.
Sydney
Newcastle
Fold Coast
Tards
Smokygrayson said | December 16th 2009 @ 2:16pm | Report comment
For goodness sake can you people stop cross-code bashing? As football/soccer fans, we need to step back from an arrogant attitude. AFL and NRL purists can be happy with their sport, that’s fine, why do we need to criticise those sports and compare? Meantime, the A-League DOES need to do something about crowds, because crowds reflect community support. The non-soccer codes are played at different times of the year largely, so the A-League needs to encourage fans of other codes to enjoy football as well as AFL and NRL. Many soccer fans in my home city also support the local NRL team and that’s great. Perhaps some cross-code ticket deals between members might help both codes?
FFA needs to step up to address the low AL crowds. They may be thinking that crowds will return as the end of season draws closer. They may be prepared to wait for the boost from the World Cup next year. But that would be lazy, IMO.
Art Sapphire said | December 16th 2009 @ 3:10pm | Report comment
Smoky – you have to look at the big picture. Crowds are up for some clubs and down for others. No need to be alarmist.
As you can see from the list below the problems teams are in regional NSW and Qld.
Teams whose attendance have gone up or are the same as last season (last season in brackets)
Sydney FC – 12,075 (12,375)
Adelaide United 11,433 (11,712)
Perth Glory – 9,419 (7,942)
Wellington Phoenix – 7,368 (7,193)
Teams whose attendances have declined and have their own separate issues that they need to address:
Brisbane Roar – 8,573 (12,995)
Central Coast Mariners – 7,706 (10,465)
Newcastle Jets – 5,764 (9,729)
Expansion clubs that have come in this season
North Queensland Fury – 6,676
Gold Coast United – 5,044
Team that will finish with over double the A-League average
Melbourne Victory – 20,089 (24,516) should get 25 – 30k on the weekend
GenQ said | December 16th 2009 @ 11:14pm | Report comment
That is all very well and good. However, those crowd numbers are pretty menaingless when you consider that they are sometimes being played in 45 – 50,000 seat stadiums.The atmosphere at the FC matches I have been to has been pretty poor – although I am sure it is different if you spend your time with the FC supporter groups although I am there to watch the game and not sing poorly.
Move the matches to smaller gounds and the atmoshpere will improve significantly
Michael C said | December 17th 2009 @ 12:11pm | Report comment
V3 to V4 was the huge concern, when only one club – Perth Glory registered a rise on the previous season (+5%) – illustrating that ladder position wasn’t a factor.
% wise so far this year: (year on year figures to Rnd 18 – noting of course this season will progress longer and allows 60% entry into finals vs 50%)
UP:
PG +22%
AdUtd + 12%
WPx +5%
Down:
SFC -8%
MVFC -17%
CCM -21%
Bris -27%
NJs -43%
comparing Rnd 18 this year to last years end of season totals:
UP:
PG +19%
AdUtd + 8%
WPx +3%
Down:
SFC -2%
MVFC -18%
CCM -23%
Bris -34%
NJs -41%
What really remains to be seen from the predictive perspective is what happens in this extended season from here on. Given that 6 teams make the finals.
And as Art correctly points out – the introduction of NQ and GC has certainly not helped overall attendances.
However, re on field success – the most concerning trend might be MVFC who has dropped since V2, : -19%, -6%, -17% : from a 32,444 average at Docklands to now just over 20,000……still clearly the best supported and most successful side in the ‘young’ league thus far and Hearts still to come.
SO, there’s concerns. The more you hear people claiming there aren’t really concerns – - you know there are!!!!!
AndyRoo said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:45pm | Report comment
Comparing in season results to finished season results doesn’t get you far. And this year because there are more games and new teams you cant really compare round 18 to round 18 of last year….. last year Round 18 was only 3 rounds to go until the finals!
End of season figures vs end of season figures is the way to go.
No doubt their has been a dip but like Ernie Merrick says “nothing grows along a gradient”
We have gone from 6/8 teams being in capitals to 6/10 being in capitals and thier are very obvious factors for Roar and the Jets decline as well as GCU being a non event.
Gweeds said | December 17th 2009 @ 11:21am | Report comment
Anyway, we don’t call the Melbourne – Sydney match blackbuster here in Melbourne. We call it the Superclásico.
Redb said | December 17th 2009 @ 1:55pm | Report comment
Gweeds,
nice blog site. Your views as a moderate are to be applauded.
cheers
Redb
Gweeds said | December 17th 2009 @ 2:08pm | Report comment
Thanks Redb